PORTAL (Source)

flechette

2007-11-03 03:31:23 am

lalala

Saving/Loading a game cuts all dialogue and music.

CMiller

Edit history:

CMiller: 2007-11-03 03:33:51 am

2007-11-03 03:33:15 am

Quote:

He's not worrying about his run, he just doesn't want to waste the time to legit it if in fact someone can perfect everything, splice it together and claim SS. It would more-than-likely nullify everything he worked for. I can absolutely see that take on this.

So SDA may choose NOT to allow ANY single segment runs based on circumstances? Is this correct? If so, that's extremely lame.

Fragalishus

2007-11-03 04:45:15 am

Quote:

Shit, the source files can be also easily manipulated. So there's NO way to prove a ss run is legitimate. I have to drop this project :(.

No, they can't. Not easily, anyway. Even if you did know what you're doing, it'd still be near impossible to fake the demos without getting caught. No matter how much you think you know about demos, there's always people who know just a little more.

Source records new demos on level change. If you truly do a single segment run, without cheats, and upload all the demos there should be no problem verifying the run. There will be very little problem verifying if cheats were used, as well.

As I said, no matter how slick someone thinks they are, there's always someone slicker.

If it's a legit run, upload it. Let SDA worry about verification.

If you don't upload it, everyone's just going to assume you cheated anyway. Nature of the beast, and all that.

djcj

2007-11-03 06:05:36 am

Just do your speedrun and submit it.
And if you worry about the verification, do as Spider-Waffle said and record yourself playing the game via webcam or camcorder.

groobo

Edit history:

groobo: 2007-11-03 11:44:59 am

2007-11-03 09:02:14 am

boss

Quote:

He's not worrying about his run, he just doesn't want to waste the time to legit it if in fact someone can perfect everything, splice it together and claim SS. It would more-than-likely nullify everything he worked for. I can absolutely see that take on this.

That's exactly my point.

Quote:

Saving/Loading a game cuts all dialogue and music.

Well, no one would save/load anywhere. Videos could be spliced together at the loading screen so you couldn't tell if it's ss or not. Sound does stop immediately when you run into loading screens on level transitions.

Aff ffs, I'm going to do it, no matter if it gets accepted here.

edit: I'm not done finding shortcuts. Saves 15-20s.

Siyko

2007-11-03 02:18:46 pm

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

hahaha nice

djcj

2007-11-03 02:34:13 pm

A question: is it possible to script that timer from the challenge maps into the advanced maps?

ZenicReverie

2007-11-03 05:40:19 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

It'd be nice if Fraps or some other recording software had a way to show that it was recorded all at once and not spliced together. Is there a frame timer that can be displayed while recording? That would probably solve the potential for someone splicing segmented runs together. I haven't worked with Fraps yet, so I'm just throwing out ideas, sorry if they're not helpful.

thorgot

2007-11-03 06:29:22 pm

Quote:

A question: is it possible to script that timer from the challenge maps into the advanced maps?

Yes, it is.

flechette

2007-11-03 07:24:54 pm

lalala

Quote:

It'd be nice if Fraps or some other recording software had a way to show that it was recorded all at once and not spliced together. Is there a frame timer that can be displayed while recording? That would probably solve the potential for someone splicing segmented runs together. I haven't worked with Fraps yet, so I'm just throwing out ideas, sorry if they're not helpful.

A frame counter would be an EXCELLENT feature for Fraps. I do think I'm going to shoot off an email to him about that now, or at least see about suggesting it on the forums.

Also, groobo, I REALLY wanna see a run of this. I don't have the time to do runs like I'd like to much anymore, but I still love the speed running community as a whole. ^^

-flech

djcj

Edit history:

djcj: 2007-11-03 11:55:12 pm

2007-11-03 09:41:04 pm

Quote:

It'd be nice if Fraps or some other recording software had a way to show that it was recorded all at once and not spliced together. Is there a frame timer that can be displayed while recording? That would probably solve the potential for someone splicing segmented runs together. I haven't worked with Fraps yet, so I'm just throwing out ideas, sorry if they're not helpful.

Something like that?
Well... I haven't tested these statistic functions yet, so I cannot say if they can proof that the video was recorded all at once.

Quote:

Yes, it is.

Thanks. I'll try it later. Wink

edit: it works, thanks. Wink

groobo

Edit history:

groobo: 2007-11-03 10:56:51 pm

2007-11-03 10:45:42 pm

boss

Just got a response from Mike. Webcams are the best way to go. Unfortunately I don't have one, so demos are my only line of defence. Anyway, my best time atm is 18:42.

PS. Isn't there a way to check the date/time a demo was recorded at, in game? Via the console or something?

flechette

2007-11-03 11:35:07 pm

lalala

Quote:

Just got a response from Mike. Webcams are the best way to go.

That makes me VERY unhappy. I understand the need for validity, but nnnnnnrrrgh. That's a stupid way to go about it. Honestly, I wouldn't watch a webcam'd run of Portal. Not when there's demos/fraps in the world.

-flech

ad3n

Edit history:

ad3n: 2007-11-03 11:51:56 pm

2007-11-03 11:51:21 pm

rawr

Quote:

Honestly, I wouldn't watch a webcam'd run of Portal. Not when there's demos/fraps in the world.

-flech

Unless you were a verifier, you wouldn't have to, as it would only be to ensure a valid SS. The Fraps version would then be upped to SDA for the rest of the world to watch. Basically, it's double recorded.

DAMURDOC

2007-11-04 01:08:18 am

The BaldurManiac

Quote:

That makes me VERY unhappy. I understand the need for validity, but nnnnnnrrrgh. That's a stupid way to go about it. Honestly, I wouldn't watch a webcam'd run of Portal. Not when there's demos/fraps in the world.

-flech

lol.. it's obvious that the webcam version wouldn't be the real version of the run. I just can't believe you've been here since 2005. I got a guy named Nate I am sure you would like to meet.

AjAX

2007-11-04 01:33:15 am

Well, Fraps split files after 4 gb, SO, if you take a screenshot of all the fraps file in the same folder in details, we will see all the date, hour,minute, which I think is ok enough to prove that it has been done SS.

djcj

2007-11-04 01:49:15 am

Quote:

Well, Fraps split files after 4 gb, SO, if you take a screenshot of all the fraps file in the same folder in details, we will see all the date, hour,minute, which I think is ok enough to prove that it has been done SS.

It's easy to fake screenshots. XD

Zurreco

2007-11-04 01:51:02 am

Just call me the cynicism machine

Uhh, there is a simple solution to this. Record the SS using .dem or FRAPS, and record this being played via webcam. The webcam file will be used to prove that the player is, in fact, playing the SS themselves. Once that has been established, the FRAPS recording can be used by verifiers/uploaded/etc.

That, or, assuming you can't merge .dem files together, why not just submit them SS .dem to someone more official for verifier's encode purposes.

It's a stupid idea, but it's better than crying over nothing. Also, I don't see why people would flip out about the possibility of things being cheated. A whole lot of videos on the site could have been modified, but that doesn't mean that we should have to jump through stupid hoops to prove something small like that.

Siyko

2007-11-04 01:58:48 am

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

pretty much zurreco, except afiak, the .dem in Portal are totally broken atm

ad3n

2007-11-04 03:01:15 am

rawr

Quote:

Well, Fraps split files after 4 gb, SO, if you take a screenshot of all the fraps file in the same folder in details, we will see all the date, hour,minute, which I think is ok enough to prove that it has been done SS.

What if those original fraps/source videos were sent to whomever was to distribute to the verifiers? The dates would all correlate if they're SS and source videos can't be messed up. As AjAX said about the files splitting at the 3.9gb mark, it'd be damn near impossible to cheat having the files that proper size and being the exact frames needed to make a smooth transition. Frankly, I think it's a hell of a lot more practical than the webcam idea.

ZenicReverie

2007-11-04 05:37:31 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

Quote:

Just got a response from Mike. Webcams are the best way to go. Unfortunately I don't have one, so demos are my only line of defence. Anyway, my best time atm is 18:42.

PS. Isn't there a way to check the date/time a demo was recorded at, in game? Via the console or something?

Webcams shouldn't cost that much, maybe 50 bucks, but you're on a budget like most of us probably are, then it's a bit of a pain. sub 19 sounds like a really good time. Maybe you could work on the IL runs for now until you can get the webcam for the SS. Just an idea. This and other games like it really should be up on SDA. Linking to the actual runs for this popular game could really boost exposure of SDA, so let's get some good IL times together.

Guest

2007-11-04 06:13:58 am

well... if you know how a computer works you can fake like... everything that has to do with it. even the console runs since video files can always be modified.

groobo

Edit history:

groobo: 2007-11-04 09:39:00 am

2007-11-04 08:40:42 am

boss

Quote:

The dates would all correlate if they're SS and source videos can't be messed up. As AjAX said about the files splitting at the 3.9gb mark, it'd be damn near impossible to cheat having the files that proper size and being the exact frames needed to make a smooth transition. Frankly, I think it's a hell of a lot more practical than the webcam idea.

You can change a file's date/time with simple free software, just google for it. And a source file goes UP TO 3,9gb, so the last file won't be that big. When I'm doing a ss run I end up having two source files, one is 3,9gb (ends somewhere in the middle of chamber 16) and the other one is like 3,2gb-3,6gb. Basically you can easily just make the run in two segments (beginning - chamber 16; chamber 17 - end) and then merge the last part of chamber 16 with the second segment.

A IL table for this game sounds brilliant though.

edit: I just thought about recording all the way till the end of the credits. That would leave me with 3 source files and all gameplay footage would be in the first two 3,9gb ones.

[quote]
The dates would all correlate if they're SS and source videos can't be messed up.  As AjAX said about the files splitting at the 3.9gb mark, it'd be damn near impossible to cheat having the files that proper size and being the exact frames needed to make a smooth transition.  Frankly, I think it's a hell of a lot more practical than the webcam idea.[/quote]
You can change a file's date/time with simple free software, just google for it. And a source file goes UP TO 3,9gb, so the last file won't be that big. When I'm doing a ss run I end up having two source files, one is 3,9gb (ends somewhere in the middle of chamber 16) and the other one is like 3,2gb-3,6gb. Basically you can easily just make the run in two segments (beginning - chamber 16; chamber 17 - end) and then merge the last part of chamber 16 with the second segment.

A IL table for this game sounds brilliant though.

edit: I just thought about recording all the way till the end of the credits. That would leave me with 3 source files and all gameplay footage would be in the first two 3,9gb ones.

flechette

Edit history:

flechette: 2007-11-04 01:24:27 pm

2007-11-04 01:19:25 pm

lalala

Quote:

lol.. it's obvious that the webcam version wouldn't be the real version of the run. I just can't believe you've been here since 2005. I got a guy named Nate I am sure you would like to meet.

How many runs have been both recorded with fraps and webcams to prove validity? Can you name one?

If you can, then kudos for you guys for being REALLY overboard as far as validation goes.

Cody, did you do anything aside from record your SS Halo 2 run in it's entirety? Did you videotape yourself playing the game? If you did, then I somehow missed that tidbit in all the articles and posts/news I read about it. I know TG ARE sticklers for how things have to be done, and I understand the need for validation here, but I can't remember a single other thread where validation has been such a sticking point.

Quote:

Webcams shouldn't cost that much, maybe 50 bucks, but you're on a budget like most of us probably are, then it's a bit of a pain.

Sans having two computers, are we suggesting that Groobo play Portal, record it with fraps, and at the same time record a 20 minute webcam session? Groobo isn't playing on the 360. That's why I thought bringing a webcam into the mix was a bit extreme.

Also, I've been hanging around a loooooot longer than 2005. I used to use the nick DooMfienD, when I played Q1.

[quote]

lol.. it's obvious that the webcam version wouldn't be the real version of the run. I just can't believe you've been here since 2005. I got a guy named Nate I am sure you would like to meet.[/quote]

How many runs have been both recorded with fraps and webcams to prove validity? Can you name one?

If you can, then kudos for you guys for being REALLY overboard as far as validation goes.

Cody, did you do anything aside from record your SS Halo 2 run in it's entirety? Did you videotape yourself playing the game? If you did, then I somehow missed that tidbit in all the articles and posts/news I read about it. I know TG ARE sticklers for how things have to be done, and I understand the need for validation here, but I can't remember a single other thread where validation has been such a sticking point.

[quote]
Webcams shouldn't cost that much, maybe 50 bucks, but you're on a budget like most of us probably are, then it's a bit of a pain. [/quote]

Sans having two computers, are we suggesting that Groobo play Portal, record it with fraps, and at the same time record a 20 minute webcam session? Groobo isn't playing on the 360. That's why I thought bringing a webcam into the mix was a bit extreme.

Also, I've been hanging around a loooooot longer than 2005. I used to use the nick DooMfienD, when I played Q1.

CMiller

2007-11-04 01:41:40 pm

Oh no, it looks like the webcam thing won't work either. Edit the video, and play it back in a madia player fullscreen. Record yourself "playing" with the webcam… Looks like THAT method won't work!