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Pokémon Rumble U (Any %) (Single Segment)

Decision: Reject

Reason: Staff consensus was that this was too close to a cheat code to be a valid category

https://queue.speeddemosarchive.com/queue/verificationfiles/807/

This run will be available for a month. After that these link(s) will no longer work.
Thread title:  
Run Information

Pokémon Rumble U (Any %) (Single Segment)

Verification Files

http://v.speeddemosarchive.com/pokemon_rumble_u-v_HQ.mp4

Please refer to the Verification Guidelines before posting. Verifications are due by Dec. 27, 2013.

Please post your opinions about the run and be certain to conclude your post with a verdict (Accept/Reject). This is not a contest where the majority wins - I will judge each verification on its content. Please keep your verification brief unless you have a good reason otherwise.

After 2 weeks I will read all of the verifications and move this thread to the main verification board and post my verdict.
Edit history:
Eternalspirit: 2013-12-14 01:12:11 pm
Can anyone shed some light on how this game works? I'm seeing a number of things the runner does that appear to be complete time wasters, but without any further knowledge I cannot say for sure. Specifically:

After bosses are killed, he does not grab all the coins as quickly as possible - doing this appears to make the victory screen show up quicker.
He used a bunch of gift codes in order to get some strong pokemon at the start, presumably to make things go a bit faster. However, he picks up a large amount of pokeballs which waste time, because later on they are opened one after another, with the pokemon inside granted to the runner, but I see no apparent use for them.
There are also special objectives that can be completed during levels, and the runner actually accomplishes them all sometimes. This seems to waste time as well, as the celebration lasts a few seconds and the only reward appears to be a pokemon.
Edit history:
RDilux: 2013-12-15 02:27:32 am
Quote from Eternalspirit:
Can anyone shed some light on how this game works? I'm seeing a number of things the runner does that appear to be complete time wasters, but without any further knowledge I cannot say for sure. Specifically:

After bosses are killed, he does not grab all the coins as quickly as possible - doing this appears to make the victory screen show up quicker.
He used a bunch of gift codes in order to get some strong pokemon at the start, presumably to make things go a bit faster. However, he picks up a large amount of pokeballs which waste time, because later on they are opened one after another, with the pokemon inside granted to the runner, but I see no apparent use for them.
There are also special objectives that can be completed during levels, and the runner actually accomplishes them all sometimes. This seems to waste time as well, as the celebration lasts a few seconds and the only reward appears to be a pokemon.

well let the runner "myself" explain it.
the gift pokemon make the run 2 hours faster (yes i did finish the game without them it was a pain!)
about the boss battle you can only clear a level when you grab all things! so you need to grab all pokeballs and coins it take like 30 second to dissapear
about the special objectives i don't get them because i want them some i get by just doing the level i can't change that i try to figure out to complete none but some you just can't avoid
Quote from RDilux:
Quote from Eternalspirit:
Can anyone shed some light on how this game works? I'm seeing a number of things the runner does that appear to be complete time wasters, but without any further knowledge I cannot say for sure. Specifically:

After bosses are killed, he does not grab all the coins as quickly as possible - doing this appears to make the victory screen show up quicker.
He used a bunch of gift codes in order to get some strong pokemon at the start, presumably to make things go a bit faster. However, he picks up a large amount of pokeballs which waste time, because later on they are opened one after another, with the pokemon inside granted to the runner, but I see no apparent use for them.
There are also special objectives that can be completed during levels, and the runner actually accomplishes them all sometimes. This seems to waste time as well, as the celebration lasts a few seconds and the only reward appears to be a pokemon.

well let the runner "myself" explain it.
the gift pokemon make the run 2 hours faster (yes i did finish the game without them it was a pain!)
about the boss battle you can only clear a level when you grab all things! so you need to grab all pokeballs and coins it take like 30 second to dissapear
about the special objectives i don't get them because i want them some i get by just doing the level i can't change that i try to figure out to complete none but some you just can't avoid


Right, my point was that, after some levels, you were not collecting the coins and etc. as quickly as possible. You were just sitting there and letting them disappear. This didn't happen too often, but it did happen.
Fair enough on the special objectives, I had thought that to be the case, but I figured that maybe some of them could be avoided. It did happen a few times already.

Also, on the point about the pokeballs: are you saying the level itself won't even progress until you collect everything on the screen?
Quote from Eternalspirit:
Quote from RDilux:
Quote from Eternalspirit:
Can anyone shed some light on how this game works? I'm seeing a number of things the runner does that appear to be complete time wasters, but without any further knowledge I cannot say for sure. Specifically:

After bosses are killed, he does not grab all the coins as quickly as possible - doing this appears to make the victory screen show up quicker.
He used a bunch of gift codes in order to get some strong pokemon at the start, presumably to make things go a bit faster. However, he picks up a large amount of pokeballs which waste time, because later on they are opened one after another, with the pokemon inside granted to the runner, but I see no apparent use for them.
There are also special objectives that can be completed during levels, and the runner actually accomplishes them all sometimes. This seems to waste time as well, as the celebration lasts a few seconds and the only reward appears to be a pokemon.

well let the runner "myself" explain it.
the gift pokemon make the run 2 hours faster (yes i did finish the game without them it was a pain!)
about the boss battle you can only clear a level when you grab all things! so you need to grab all pokeballs and coins it take like 30 second to dissapear
about the special objectives i don't get them because i want them some i get by just doing the level i can't change that i try to figure out to complete none but some you just can't avoid


Right, my point was that, after some levels, you were not collecting the coins and etc. as quickly as possible. You were just sitting there and letting them disappear. This didn't happen too often, but it did happen.
Fair enough on the special objectives, I had thought that to be the case, but I figured that maybe some of them could be avoided. It did happen a few times already.

Also, on the point about the pokeballs: are you saying the level itself won't even progress until you collect everything on the screen?


yep if i don't grab the pokeballs they sit there for 30 seconds grabbing them is faster because the longest pokeball screen takes 20 seconds so i better grab them instead of leaving them there
also not grabbing pokeballs will take me to the screen anyway and that takes 12 seconds so grabbing the pokeballs is the most fast way to do it
some coins i don't grab only in the end i try to grab all coins and you can only move after the screen of the bonus objectives so yea
Edit history:
Eternalspirit: 2013-12-15 05:13:00 pm
Eternalspirit: 2013-12-15 05:12:24 pm
Eternalspirit: 2013-12-15 05:12:00 pm
Final save time appears to be 1:42, as per in-game timer. The time is shown at the end of the video.

Ok, so.. I will trust the runner that there wasn't a whole lot that could be done about not grabbing the pokeballs, because they are easily the biggest time waster the entire run. By the end, he uses a few of the ones he collects during levels, but that's about it.

The one dead costs only a couple seconds because the runner is able to almost immediately revive at the spot he died, and the actual death seemed to be due to unfortunate circumstances fighting a boss with OP attack power.

The run itself seemed fine overall. Having not played this game, I really can't comment on the effectiveness of the battle strategies the runner employed, but he was never idle for very long and seemed to end the battles fairly efficiently.

So I will give this one a tentative accept, but I may be swayed the other way if someone who has played this game has any comments about it.

Also, since you're here, RDilux, could you please offer some insight into some of the decisions made during the run? Specifically, how to fight battles as fast as possible, what pokemon were used and why, etc.
Quote from Eternalspirit:
Final save time appears to be 1:42, as per in-game timer. The time is shown at the end of the video.

Ok, so.. I will trust the runner that there wasn't a whole lot that could be done about not grabbing the pokeballs, because they are easily the biggest time waster the entire run. By the end, he uses a few of the ones he collects during levels, but that's about it.

The one dead costs only a couple seconds because the runner is able to almost immediately revive at the spot he died, and the actual death seemed to be due to unfortunate circumstances fighting a boss with OP attack power.

The run itself seemed fine overall. Having not played this game, I really can't comment on the effectiveness of the battle strategies the runner employed, but he was never idle for very long and seemed to end the battles fairly efficiently.

So I will give this one a tentative accept, but I may be swayed the other way if someone who has played this game has any comments about it.

Also, since you're here, RDilux, could you please offer some insight into some of the decisions made during the run? Specifically, how to fight battles as fast as possible, what pokemon were used and why, etc.


well i choosed Sableye, because he have fast attack and could run faster then any pokemon in this game so year choosing him at the begin is they fastest way to start.
after that it is really about power so i choose haxorus, his dual chop and dragon claw attack does high damage and make him move fast a bit of OP attack (the one with dragon claw i use in the last fight of the game)
Anway i gonna make this run better when it got accepted ofcrouse and my wii u is atm broken so i cannot play this game atm
Professional Shaq Fu Speedrunner
So I have, at best, a passing level of familiarity at what the Pokemon Rumble series is. For those not familiar with it, Pokemon do not level up as you go through the game, but stay static. There are other ways to increase your Pokemon's power via fusion/adding moves in other Rumble games. The game is intended to scale upwards in power, and you collect more powerful Pokemon as you go through the game to take on the more powerful ones. Rinse and repeat until the game ends.

The gameplay itself seemed somewhat sloppy at points, but in a game over an hour long, and a game as new as this, its forgivable.

However the biggest problem I have with this is the inclusion of password Pokemon in the beginning. The comparison I am going to make is to the Yu-Gi-Oh games, specifically Forbidden Memories, since that is the one that people seem to be actually speedrunning.

Every Yu-Gi-Oh game has a password screen to my knowledge. This password screen allows you to input a numeric passcode that is printed, and unique to each named card, on every Yu-Gi-Oh card. This code is identical on their Japanese and English printing. By inputting this code, which the game allows you to do once, you get a copy of this card added to your inventory. No runner of Forbidden Memories does this because is akin to accessing a cheats menu.

Even if you allowed this password% to be a valid category, as it does make the game significantly shorter, it should have to be timed manually, as the password entry screen, as far as I know, isn't counted on the in game timer. The password entry starts before the runner technically starts the game. Also, the password entry isn't captured at all, since its taking place on the Wii U Gamepad.

I'd also bring up that by using passwords, you're saying that using the NFC Figures that can be purchased can be used if they make the game faster. I don't know if they are actually more powerful than the passworded ones you used, but they could be, and if they are, they are just as valid as the passwords. I know you can level up the NFC Figures and store that data on the figures, so they should, in theory, be more powerful than the passworded characters when fully leveled.

Verdict: Reject

This isn't a valid category for the game. It's not new game plus either as from what I can tell from the research I did, is that these passwords are not given to you as a prize for beating the game. They are a cheats menu, and I cannot see a game run with cheats on as being a valid category, no matter if the gameplay is acceptable or not.
Edit history:
Eternalspirit: 2013-12-24 01:19:31 am
Eternalspirit: 2013-12-24 01:19:06 am
Eternalspirit: 2013-12-24 01:13:07 am
Eternalspirit: 2013-12-24 01:11:35 am
Eternalspirit: 2013-12-24 01:07:54 am
Looks like the passwords are available to everyone:

http://www.serebii.net/rumbleu/passwords.shtml

So it really depends on the definition of "cheat code" for the purposes of verifying speed runs. I personally don't have a problem with the passwords used in this particular run.

SDA KB cheat code definition: Cheat codes such as invincibility, more lives, etc. Codes that are cosmetic (suitless Samus in Metroid) may or may not be allowed, you may have to ask. Codes that make the game harder (no DK and continue barrels in the Donkey Kong Country series) may be considered separate categories.

A definition on a separate page, but no less vague: Codes: Using a beneficial cheat code is not allowed: something that gives more lives, reduces damage, etc. If a code is only cosmetic, like suitless Samus in NES Metroid, that is acceptable. A code that increases the game's difficulty, such as Donkey Kong Country 3 105%, may qualify as a separate category.

I am unsure if the gift pokemon would fall under this as they are not traditional "cheat codes".

With all that said, if there is no clear definition for this particular type of code, I feel that this is no grounds to reject the run, but I believe clarification of the rule for the purposes of future speed runs would be a good idea in order to eliminate this grey area.
Not a walrus
It does sound like this is probably too close to a "cheat code" to accept. At best it'd be NG+. I'll have to review the video and discuss it with the other staff.
Sounds reasonable.
Quote from JackintheBox333:
So I have, at best, a passing level of familiarity at what the Pokemon Rumble series is. For those not familiar with it, Pokemon do not level up as you go through the game, but stay static. There are other ways to increase your Pokemon's power via fusion/adding moves in other Rumble games. The game is intended to scale upwards in power, and you collect more powerful Pokemon as you go through the game to take on the more powerful ones. Rinse and repeat until the game ends.

The gameplay itself seemed somewhat sloppy at points, but in a game over an hour long, and a game as new as this, its forgivable.

However the biggest problem I have with this is the inclusion of password Pokemon in the beginning. The comparison I am going to make is to the Yu-Gi-Oh games, specifically Forbidden Memories, since that is the one that people seem to be actually speedrunning.

Every Yu-Gi-Oh game has a password screen to my knowledge. This password screen allows you to input a numeric passcode that is printed, and unique to each named card, on every Yu-Gi-Oh card. This code is identical on their Japanese and English printing. By inputting this code, which the game allows you to do once, you get a copy of this card added to your inventory. No runner of Forbidden Memories does this because is akin to accessing a cheats menu.

Even if you allowed this password% to be a valid category, as it does make the game significantly shorter, it should have to be timed manually, as the password entry screen, as far as I know, isn't counted on the in game timer. The password entry starts before the runner technically starts the game. Also, the password entry isn't captured at all, since its taking place on the Wii U Gamepad.

I'd also bring up that by using passwords, you're saying that using the NFC Figures that can be purchased can be used if they make the game faster. I don't know if they are actually more powerful than the passworded ones you used, but they could be, and if they are, they are just as valid as the passwords. I know you can level up the NFC Figures and store that data on the figures, so they should, in theory, be more powerful than the passworded characters when fully leveled.

Verdict: Reject

This isn't a valid category for the game. It's not new game plus either as from what I can tell from the research I did, is that these passwords are not given to you as a prize for beating the game. They are a cheats menu, and I cannot see a game run with cheats on as being a valid category, no matter if the gameplay is acceptable or not.


The password are "gift pokemon" and can be found in magezines or other stuff like that they are no cheatcodes at all.
It make the early strage of the game faster and all can be found here http://www.serebii.net/rumbleu/passwords.shtml
Also the source where the password came from is there even some are on the official site.
You may call it cheating, but when i hear cheating i think more like a gameshark or gamegenie device that is not used at all
Decision posted.