Pokemon Gold/Silver

2009-05-24 03:28:01 am

There's a word for that

28? ._.
Hitmonlee outspeeds Cronocaw, then I evolve before Chuck, but Primeape still outspeeds Feraligatr. Even in my improvement planning I was a level ahead in both those cases for some reason, hence why I say "potentially". For example, then I had 51 Speed vs Hitmonlee, now I have 47. I can still complete the gym fine, I just 'lose' a about 5 seconds along the way. And yeah I was always looking at 3:15 but it didn't want to return my feelings Sad

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about your SS run, the time sounds about on par relative to the FR/LG SS, and considering it's still better than the current segmented run...

GreenSquirtle

Edit history:

GreenSquirtle: 2009-05-30 08:37:10 pm

2009-05-30 06:00:24 pm

I am doing a Pokemon Gold Speedrun. The current time is 4:15. I am trying to get a better speedrun time. I am using a couple different techniques that save me some time as well as do the run a little bit better. I have done a speedrun of Pokemon Red version before but that was so long ago. I still have the run but couldn't submit it because of financial problems of this site. I am using the gameboy player instead of the gameboy tower in Pokemon Stadium 2. I am known as Metabou now more not GreenSquirtle. Sorry should not have made a new topic on this.

gia

Edit history:

gia: 2009-05-30 06:43:39 pm

2009-05-30 06:38:07 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Please go there: http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php/topic,1688.465.html

As I understand gold and silver are considered the same game, but choosing a different starter pokemon is a different category.

Current time on crystal is lower than yours so you might have to improve a bit, never played crystal, but shouldn't it be longer?

Rattlingjoint

2009-05-30 08:55:40 pm

Crystal on paper is longer I havent played Crystal in a long time but isnt a few Suicune events not skippable? if so should be longer

Imo just wait till the Crystal run is out its in the verification process atm dunno how long itll be but you know its good considering its mike89

DoubleThink

Edit history:

DoubleThink: 2009-06-03 09:04:08 pm

2009-05-30 11:08:45 pm

There's a word for that

Crystal is slightly longer mostly because Burned Tower is mandatory (rival battle 3, Rock Smash, waking the dogs etc). Otherwise stuff in Crystal is moved around slightly, and I suspect that maybe that would make the rest of the game slightly shorter overall, but Burned Tower still makes it longer.

EDIT: Huh, in one of my test runs I out-sped Chuck's Primeape... odd.

GreenSquirtle

Edit history:

GreenSquirtle: 2009-06-03 11:56:57 pm

2009-06-03 11:47:10 pm

Well, my final time for beating Pokemon Gold version was 4:02. I could have done better, but didn't feel like doing the last part of the run over and over again until I did it good. My last five segments are still as fast I think as the current time in the end, but could have done better. I don't know what the current record is for Pokemon Gold version or what people are working on. I know I could get it down to around 3:50 if I did it over again. I had a very good first couple segments. I wait to gain more experience later by battling less pokemon. I got the the pokemon center, the part of the first segment where the current speed runner had got 19 minutes, I got 15 minutes catching pidgey in the segment. I don't know how I did it that fast but I did. Another big time saver is not picking up any awakenings in a segmented run. I did not need any of them by keep restarting the parts where you would until there hypnosis attack misses or I get a critical hit, I also don't pick up as much items. Where I save a lot of time is when I get a rare candy at the top of the lighthouse instead of battling two trainers, and end up on a higher level when I do use it. Those are a couple of things I do on top of just trying to do what he does faster. I did do this run first as a test on my gameboyadvance SP but later when I was going to record it my gold version battery inside died. Recently I fixed, so that is why I was able to do this run. I thought I read that someone was able to get around 3:20 or so on this run, but I don't know. I don't even know if the Crystal run will be counted as the same game like red/blue version yet, so I will just wait and see I guess.

Well, my final time for beating Pokemon Gold version was 4:02. I could have done better, but didn't feel like doing the last part of the run over and over again until I did it good. My last five segments are still as fast I think as the current time in the end, but could have done better. I don't know what the current record is for Pokemon Gold version or what people are working on. I know I could get it down to around 3:50 if I did it over again. I had a very good first couple segments. I wait to gain more experience later by battling less pokemon. I got the the pokemon center, the part of the first segment where the current speed runner had got 19 minutes, I got 15 minutes catching pidgey in the segment. I don't know how I did it that fast but I did. Another big time saver is not picking up any awakenings in a segmented run. I did not need any of them by keep restarting the parts where you would until there hypnosis attack misses or I get a critical hit, I also don't pick up as much items. Where I save a lot of time is when I get a rare candy at the top of the lighthouse instead of battling two trainers, and end up on a higher level when I do use it. Those are a couple of things I do on top of just trying to do what he does faster. I did do this run first as a test on my gameboyadvance SP but later when I was going to record it my gold version battery inside died. Recently I fixed, so that is why I was able to do this run. I thought I read that someone was able to get around 3:20 or so on this run, but I don't know.  I don't even know if the Crystal run will be counted as the same game like red/blue version yet, so I will just wait and see I guess.

mike89

2009-06-04 01:48:05 am

SEGA Junkie

Good news! The torrent finally finished, a week after it started!

In the next couple of days the run might start moving through the system Cheesy

DoubleThink

2009-06-04 06:14:33 am

There's a word for that

Goodie.

@ GreenSquirtle: I am the guy running Silver(/Gold) segmented at the moment. Progress is in my sig, final time will most likely be close to 3:15, while mike89's single segment clocked in at 3:52. Not to discourage you or anything; beating the current run is certainly a good place to start Smiley

I know well the feeling of running through a game a second time and wondering where the hell I 'lost' so much time in the first place, but it's that uncertainty that makes me feel like I can always do better.

Rant rant rant rant. I'll try and get segment 16 done on Tuesday, otherwise I won't have time to work on it until the following weekend... if I'm lucky. Stupid study taking priority over the important things...

GreenSquirtle

2009-06-05 09:25:22 am

I was wondering when someone would beat the current time, I definitely can improve a lot on my run then like I thought. This was my second time through the game. I did the run in 25 segments. There were some parts of the run where I just did the segment and didn't repeat it to do it better. The run only took me three days to complete. I started on a thursday and finished on saturday. My first part was good like I said, but the rest wasn't good. I was past the fourth gym and in the pokemon center before the segments where you battle Chuck and get the medicine for ampharos, but I think I could have done that in around 55 minutes, because earlier I talked to kurt accidently a second time about the lure ball and also messed up in the cave where you get sandshrew because I also ran into a zubat, and could have done some parts a little better. Good luck on the rest of the run, I am looking forward to seeing the Crystal run as well as your run DoubleThink.

DoubleThink

Edit history:

DoubleThink: 2009-06-06 04:36:48 am

2009-06-06 03:25:26 am

There's a word for that

Quote from GreenSquirtle:

because earlier I talked to kurt accidently a second time about the lure ball

Actually you don't have to talk to him at all, you can just just leave his house as soon as you beat Team Rocket. And thanks! Cheesy

Also:

Quote from DoubleThink:

then I evolve before Chuck, but Primeape still outspeeds Feraligatr.

This actually isn't true at all, for some reason I forgot that Primeape sometimes gets a second attack off because Strength fails to KO it, not because it's faster. Silly little mistake x_X

EDIT: Huh, I did have some time after all...

GreenSquirtle

Edit history:

GreenSquirtle: 2009-06-14 09:11:52 pm

2009-06-11 10:03:02 pm

I beat Gold version again. I learned a lot more after doing it a second time. I should also skip two trainers in the first tunnel. I should only pick up like 1 berry. I should go get the red gyarados before I go to battle Chuck. Oh, I need to by 5 escape ropes, should have listened because I did need one extra. I am pretty sure the rock tunnel is faster than battling all the trainers through the path from cerulean city. I go to the power plant on my most recent run before which is a waste I think because you don't need to. You just need to talk to the rocket first in the gym, battle all the trainers then go give the machine part back after battling Misty. Other time savers I could use is too keep trying to get a critical hit more at the right time and try not to use a super-effective move if I don't need to. I don't know if headbutt is worth it in a segmented run or not, could someone let me know. I also don't know if you guys know this or not since I haven't seen anyone post it here; there is a rare candy at the top of the lighthouse. Just drop one level then go and get it. Only takes like ten more seconds to pick up before using escape rope. I also pick up the max elixir right before going to show the guy how many badges you have and it ends up saving me a trip to the pokemon center in Kanto. I actually never used the pokemon center in Kanto. After not doing all that, and messing up going through the Mt. Silver cave I think my time of 3:51 is pretty good. I am going to try again for sure and really try to make every segment good and keep restarting unitl it is really good.

EDIT: I watched the TAS run, and learned even more about how to save time but I won't be using graveler. Another thing I thought of on my own is, since I am not on lv.13 by the time I reach the trainer with geodudes, I will teach totodile mud-slap to save time. Last time I had to battle two sandshrews to gain a level so I could use water gun and ended up saving in the second gym at 32 minutes. I would have saved about a minute doing that.

I beat Gold version again. I learned a lot more after doing it a second time. I should also skip two trainers in the first tunnel. I should only pick up like 1 berry. I should go get the red gyarados before I go to battle Chuck. Oh, I need to by 5 escape ropes, should have listened because I did need one extra. I am pretty sure the rock tunnel is faster than battling all the trainers through the path from cerulean city. I go to the power plant on my most recent run before which is a waste I think because you don't need to. You just need to talk to the rocket first in the gym, battle all the trainers then go give the machine part back after battling Misty. Other time savers I could use is too keep trying to get a critical hit more at the right time and try not to use a super-effective move if I don't need to. I don't know if headbutt is worth it in a segmented run or not, could someone let me know. I also don't know if you guys know this or not since I haven't seen anyone post it here; there is a rare candy at the top of the lighthouse. Just drop one level then go and get it. Only takes like ten more seconds to pick up before using escape rope. I also pick up the max elixir right before going to show the guy how many badges you have and it ends up saving me a trip to the pokemon center in Kanto. I actually never used the pokemon center in Kanto. After not doing all that, and messing up going through the Mt. Silver cave I think my time of 3:51 is pretty good. I am going to try again for sure and really try to make every segment good and keep restarting unitl it is really good.

EDIT: I watched the TAS run, and learned even more about how to save time but I won't be using graveler. Another thing I thought of on my own is, since I am not on lv.13 by the time I reach the trainer with geodudes, I will teach totodile mud-slap to save time. Last time I had to battle two sandshrews to gain a level so I could use water gun and ended up saving in the second gym at 32 minutes. I would have saved about a minute doing that.

jsem

Edit history:

jsem: 2009-06-18 05:40:35 pm

2009-06-16 01:50:59 pm

Janis Millers

Instead of teaching it mud-slap, just battle the trainer with the wooper and catch 100ish exp and level up to level 13, he's the final trainer (the one moving around) before the bird keeper.

Btw one thing I found bein a hassle is catching red gyarados... just catch a tentacool, has all the HM slave traits you need replacing gyarados (not strength tho, sandshrews got strength).

And chuck is battleable b4 the gyarados (i acually prefer this), one way to do it is to freeze poliwrath with ice punch.

edit:
bulbapedia made an error on tentacool gen II... it can't learn waterfall, guess catching poliwag is the way to go.
also beating chuck is easy w rage, primeape uses fury swipes which is a rage enhancer

edit:
just finished a run at 3.57... real sloppy tho, i also found out that picking up any items along the way is a waste of time... ethers and stuff isn't necessary at all, E4 is easy enough and you never need it in Kanto either, one poke center stop in Kanto should be enough.

EDIT:
Found a tiny timesaver, it works great. There's a hidden max elixer on the ledge in cycling road near the end of it (near fuschia) - it + hyper potion can act as a kanto-pokecenter, no need for poke center that is.

Edit:
A new run, 1.05 before the hitmon-chan/lee (i did not take gyarados first). I picked up Quick Claw earlier, and with a ~20% chance of it workin I'm hopin to use it on hitmonlee which is a troublemaker. My croconaw is a bit low on SP. Atk too, so I'll need some X specials later to pull off epic OHKO sweeps.

Instead of teaching it mud-slap, just battle the trainer with the wooper and catch 100ish exp and level up to level 13, he's the final trainer (the one moving around) before the bird keeper.

Btw one thing I found bein a hassle is catching red gyarados... just catch a tentacool, has all the HM slave traits you need replacing gyarados (not strength tho, sandshrews got strength).

And chuck is battleable b4 the gyarados (i acually prefer this), one way to do it is to freeze poliwrath with ice punch.

edit: 
bulbapedia made an error on tentacool gen II... it can't learn waterfall, guess catching poliwag is the way to go.
also beating chuck is easy w rage, primeape uses fury swipes which is a rage enhancer

edit:
just finished a run at 3.57... real sloppy tho, i also found out that picking up any items along the way is a waste of time... ethers and stuff isn't necessary at all, E4 is easy enough and you never need it in Kanto either, one poke center stop in Kanto should be enough.

EDIT: 
Found a tiny timesaver, it works great. There's a hidden max elixer on the ledge in cycling road near the end of it (near fuschia) - it + hyper potion can act as a kanto-pokecenter, no need for poke center that is.

Edit:
A new run, 1.05 before the hitmon-chan/lee (i did not take gyarados first). I picked up Quick Claw earlier, and with a ~20% chance of it workin I'm hopin to use it on hitmonlee which is a troublemaker. My croconaw is a bit low on SP. Atk too, so I'll need some X specials later to pull off epic OHKO sweeps.

GreenSquirtle

2009-06-19 06:00:58 pm

Yeah mud-slap isn't worth it I figured out a little bit later. Catching gyarados is worth it not having to catch a poliwag by going around in the water when it is possible to catch gyarados with one poke ball. I have made a couple mistakes so far in my current run. I should have got quick claw probably for certain battles early on and probably would have saved me a little bit of time especially with headbutt. I should have tried for a better totodile with better defense and hp even though I think it has perfect attack. I get the rare candy in the tower and use it to get to level 30 before chans so it isn't so hard and I am able to do better overall. I can just get the rare candy later on cinnabar island or in violet city. Also the max elixter is worth it. I got it too and I didn't need to heal at all in Kanto and I didn't even go through the rock tunnel for a short-cut. I am looking at a time of a least 3:30 or better for sure.

jsem

Edit history:

jsem: 2009-06-20 02:01:57 pm

2009-06-20 03:59:47 am

Janis Millers

yeah gyarados is a single-ball catch in like 15 attempts... Now i'm on a run, 2.45 after E4... I'm lookin at 3.35

EDIT: Finished the run, ended up at 3.40.

_________________
Any1 considered a 100% run? Not really 100%, but 100% w/o trades.
Beat E4, all 16 gyms & red as well as catching all pokemon possible w/o trading outside the game.

It's easier in Crystal with one of the gebrils being freebie.

On the gebrils:
Well, if this is done on G/S then the gebril side-quest should be done upon arrival in Ecruteak so that gebrils can be found quicker.

A few things:
-Eeveelutions obtained via breeding many eevees. (Or buying em at celadon game corner)
-2 Sun Stones must be obtained via park contest
-Chansey... gonna take a LOT of time
-Lapras is a friday-event at Union Cave
-Sudowoodo must be caught at the event (yes I know it's obvious)
-There's only one Tyrogue, so breed its evolution and evolve them til you get all three
-Aerodactyl is only obtained thru an ingame trade for a chansey

G/S unobtainable:
9 Kanto Starters
6 Johto Starters
5 Kanto legendaries
Celebi
Kabuto & Omanyte families
(down to 226 now)

Silver vs. Gold unobtainable:
Ekans + Arbok vs Sandshrew + Sandslash
Meowth + Persian vs Mankey + Primeape
Vulpix + Ninetales vs Growlithe + Arcanine
Ledyba + Ledian vs Spinarak + Ariados
Delibird vs Mantine
Skarmory vs Gligar
Phanphy + Donphan vs Teddiursa + Ursaring
(down to 214)

Trade-evolve only:
Alakazam
Machamp
Golem
Gengar
Crobat
Politoed
Slowking
Steelix
Scizor
Kingdra
Porygon2

205 Pokemon obtainable in G/S

I think we'd be looking at a run at about 8hrs, i may be totally off but I think that's fair to say.

yeah gyarados is a single-ball catch in like 15 attempts... Now i'm on a run, 2.45 after E4... I'm lookin at 3.35

EDIT: Finished the run, ended up at 3.40.

_________________
Any1 considered a 100% run? Not really 100%, but 100% w/o trades. 
Beat E4, all 16 gyms & red as well as catching all pokemon possible w/o trading outside the game.

It's easier in Crystal with one of the gebrils being freebie.

On the gebrils:
Well, if this is done on G/S then the gebril side-quest should be done upon arrival in Ecruteak so that gebrils can be found quicker.

A few things:
-Eeveelutions obtained via breeding many eevees. (Or buying em at celadon game corner)
-2 Sun Stones must be obtained via park contest
-Chansey... gonna take a LOT of time
-Lapras is a friday-event at Union Cave
-Sudowoodo must be caught at the event (yes I know it's obvious)
-There's only one Tyrogue, so breed its evolution and evolve them til you get all three
-Aerodactyl is only obtained thru an ingame trade for a chansey

G/S unobtainable:
9 Kanto Starters
6 Johto Starters
5 Kanto legendaries
Celebi
Kabuto & Omanyte families
(down to 226 now)

Silver vs. Gold unobtainable:
Ekans + Arbok vs Sandshrew + Sandslash
Meowth + Persian vs Mankey + Primeape
Vulpix + Ninetales vs Growlithe + Arcanine
Ledyba + Ledian vs Spinarak + Ariados
Delibird vs Mantine
Skarmory vs Gligar
Phanphy + Donphan vs Teddiursa + Ursaring
(down to 214)

Trade-evolve only:
Alakazam
Machamp
Golem
Gengar
Crobat
Politoed
Slowking
Steelix
Scizor
Kingdra 
Porygon2

[b]205 Pokemon obtainable in G/S[/b]

I think we'd be looking at a run at about 8hrs, i may be totally off but I think that's fair to say.

peteyboo

2009-06-21 02:38:16 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Is it against the rules to use the cloning glitch to get all three starters?

jsem

2009-06-22 03:29:24 am

Janis Millers

well... why'd you get all three starters anyway? just a waste of time in a speed run, it won't help that much because then you'd be forced to level all the pokemon.

_____
Amazing new discovery here: Abra run!

Abra can learn the elemental punches and is caught at level 10 at Route 34(after ilex forest).
I think itd be the right thing to battle the 2 mandatory Underground trainers in Goldenrod to get some xp into it, and maybe let Croconaw faint in the end vs miltank and send in abra to finish it off?
Croconaw becomes the HM slave

Here's the difficult parts with an abra run:
-Goldenrod Gym
-Any alakazam trainer
-Sabrina
-Red's Snorlax (amnesia)

Alakazam trainers and sabrina shouldn't be too hard anyway, they should go down in 2 punches.
Reds snorlax.. idk here.. attempt freeze with ice punch?

what do you guys think of an abra run?

mike89

2009-06-22 05:08:00 am

SEGA Junkie

Crystal's been verified and accepted, so expect to see that one in the next few weeks (if you haven't seen it already as a verifier, of course).

Re: Abra run: probably not - there's a lot of things that would get in the way, notably the distinct level disadvantage in the early stages. Miltank's Stomp would probably kill it in one hit lol.

Hell, catching the Abra wouldn't be much fun either.

edit: just saw your strategy for Goldenrod Gym... maybe not Stomp, but Rollout 3/4 then. Same difference. And you're still at the mercy of Metronome.

peteyboo

2009-06-22 10:09:10 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from jsem:

well... why'd you get all three starters anyway? just a waste of time in a speed run, it won't help that much because then you'd be forced to level all the pokemon.

...

Well the discussion was of a 100% run. 100% means 100%, no matter how long it takes (except in the case of The Wind Waker).

jsem

Edit history:

jsem: 2009-06-23 02:08:48 pm

2009-06-23 07:16:58 am

Janis Millers

I made it thru goldenrod city with the abra, it got to lvl 14 fighting the two underground trainers. One flaw was that I didn't have enough cash for all three punches, so I had to buy one more after beating the gym <.<.

I beat the gym there easily, finished snubbul in 3 punches then putting Abra head on before facing whitney, then swapped in croconaw and finished the rest with ONLY croconaw. So my abra was at level 15 after finishin the gym. I evolved it vs the diglett/zubat trainer.

The only problem I have atm is vs Alakazam's... Koga's Forretress is 2HKO with Thunderpunch so I don't think that'll be a problem with removing Fire Punch... but the rival's magenton may be a problem. So I think I'll swap Fire Punch for Shadow Ball after E4, there are no steel-types in Kanto luckily so Shadow Ball from there.

@ Peteyboo

I guess a 100% run should be 100%, but in that case I think that is the only time when a glitch should be allowed. It shouldn't be allowed to like.. duplicate Eevee or something like that.

Edit: Abra run is worth it:
No need to catch Sandshrew.
Beat Chuck easily.
Beat E4 easier.
Beat Rival easier.
Beat Blue easier.

Kadabra pwns.

I made it thru goldenrod city with the abra, it got to lvl 14 fighting the two underground trainers. One flaw was that I didn't have enough cash for all three punches, so I had to buy one more after beating the gym <.<.

I beat the gym there easily, finished snubbul in 3 punches then putting Abra head on before facing whitney, then swapped in croconaw and finished the rest with ONLY croconaw. So my abra was at level 15 after finishin the gym. I evolved it vs the diglett/zubat trainer.

The only problem I have atm is vs Alakazam's... Koga's Forretress is 2HKO with Thunderpunch so I don't think that'll be a problem with removing Fire Punch... but the rival's magenton may be a problem. So I think I'll swap Fire Punch for Shadow Ball after E4, there are no steel-types in Kanto luckily so Shadow Ball from there.

@ Peteyboo

I guess a 100% run should be 100%, but in that case I think that is the only time when a glitch should be allowed. It shouldn't be allowed to like.. duplicate Eevee or something like that.

Edit: Abra run is worth it:
No need to catch Sandshrew.
Beat Chuck easily.
Beat E4 easier.
Beat Rival easier.
Beat Blue easier.

Kadabra pwns.

mike89

2009-06-23 04:29:00 pm

SEGA Junkie

Not yet. You still have to get past Red. Specifically, Snorlax.

I suppose then the Cursing Gastly becomes an option...

I still, however, disagree that any of this would be faster (with the exception of Chuck) because Feral is taking most things out in one hit anyway.

Shadow Ball strat is interesting and might work... I think Ghost is a physical type though which means you get the really poor Attack stat.

Let me put it this way: I would test it, if I hadn't already just done a run >_>

DoubleThink

2009-06-26 02:06:15 am

There's a word for that

Kadabra, huh...

I mucked around with some exp quackulating. A Lv10 Abra will start with nearly a 5000 exp deficit. Fighting ALL trainers in the Underground and Lass Carrie will get Kadabra to Lv16 just in time to fight Whitney - leaving a dilemma. Kadabra would probably need Ice Punch to beat Whitney, but teaching it that would override Teleport, which could be used to save a bunch of time by warping back to Violet City. (Thunder and Fire Punch are needed for max efficiency in the Underground battles.) From there, it saves a lot of turns in battle initially, in places like the Dance Hall, Lighthouse and Chuck's gym. From there it evens out a bit - Kadabra gains a bit more time up to Bruno, then loses a bit against Karen. However, it loses time overall in Kanto, especially in the Red battle (mostly Snorlax). Shadow Ball should be fine for taking out other Psychics, and it should be safe to replace Fire Punch at some point. More of the time lost in general comes from Ice/FireorGhost/Psychic/Electric having poor neutral (and physical) coverage, meaning quite a few more super effective messages, and wasted PP on super effective moves because a nve one won't 1-hit. It's close, but I'd still vote for Fera overall. It would be so much fun if Kadabra ended up being slower just because of the Red battle Tongue

In other news, exams are finished as of... two hours ago. Expect a bunch of segments in the near future. Seriously, expect them, I want to feel pressured >_>

Oh and good job mike Cheesy

Kadabra, huh...

I mucked around with some exp quackulating. A Lv10 Abra will start with nearly a 5000 exp deficit. Fighting ALL trainers in the Underground and Lass Carrie will get Kadabra to Lv16 just in time to fight Whitney - leaving a dilemma. Kadabra would probably need Ice Punch to beat Whitney, but teaching it that would override Teleport, which could be used to save a bunch of time by warping back to Violet City. (Thunder and Fire Punch are needed for max efficiency in the Underground battles.) From there, it saves a lot of turns in battle initially, in places like the Dance Hall, Lighthouse and Chuck's gym. From there it evens out a bit - Kadabra gains a bit more time up to Bruno, then loses a bit against Karen. However, it loses time overall in Kanto, especially in the Red battle (mostly Snorlax). Shadow Ball should be fine for taking out other Psychics, and it should be safe to replace Fire Punch at some point. More of the time lost in general comes from Ice/FireorGhost/Psychic/Electric having poor neutral (and physical) coverage, meaning quite a few more super effective messages, and wasted PP on super effective moves because a nve one won't 1-hit. It's close, but I'd still vote for Fera overall. It would be so much fun if Kadabra ended up being slower just because of the Red battle :P

In other news, exams are finished as of... two hours ago. Expect a bunch of segments in the near future. Seriously, expect them, I want to feel pressured >_>

Oh and good job mike :D

Time

2009-06-26 01:11:17 pm

Well, come on then, where are the segments? We ARE expecting them, and it's alreayd been a couple of hours! Slowpoke. Tongue

GreenSquirtle

2009-07-06 11:51:05 am

I just thought of something that might really help. Tuscany of Tuesday appears in the beginning of the game with a pink bow which increases the power of normal type moves. It might help a lot for many areas in the game early on.

DoubleThink

2009-07-06 08:54:31 pm

There's a word for that

I thought of that too, but she only appears after you beat Violet Gym Cry

Time

2009-07-07 06:48:22 pm

Whatever happened to those segments, btw?