Pokemon Leaf Green/Fire Red Discussion topic

Edit history:

UltimateDarius: 2009-02-25 08:23:43 pm

2007-11-04 08:42:58 pm

Back in the game!

I have been given the first 2 posts of this topic, the one that JWise started, for Leaf Green and Fire Red discussion. This post will cover the "basic" speedrun, getting from your bedroom to the computer registry after defeating the Elite 4 in the shortest period of time possible.

The original strategy involved a Blastoise/Zapdos combination, but since then we have changed that to Blastoise alone, with the help of X-items bought in Celedon Dept. Store and 11 rare candies found en route. The Blastoise would ideally be a female with a mild nature (gains special attack at the sacrifice of defense), however I settled for a rash nature (gains special attack at the sacrifice of special defense). This is potentially only problematic fighting Surge's Raichu, the rival's starter, and the occasional trainer's bellsprout early in the run. Surge was offset in the SS run by postponing him until after entering Celedon City, at a total expense of around 30 seconds lost. The final moveset was Brick Break, Blizzard, Surf, and Bite.

Torrent Sweep: Squirtle's pokemon ability is "Torrent," which boosts water moves by 1.5 when HP is at or below 1/3. By purposely keeping Squirtle's HP as low as possible, utilizing torrent to KO enemies in less turns than usual. A good example of this are the pokes on the way to Mt Moon, where I OHKOed the bugs instead of taking 2 hits each.

Pallet, Viridian, Pallet, Viridian. Get free potion from random clerk here first time, catch Pidgey and Ratatta for Fly and Cut the 2nd time.

Forest-Fight bug catcher at the end only. SS run, collect 2 antidote and potion

Pewter (Segmented Run: Torrent Sweep Brock)
Shopping stop: repels, potions, recovery items)

(On the way to and thru Mt Moon, Torrent Sweep)
Mt. Moon
Fight Bug catcher near Rare Candy 1, collect candy. (SS get revive)
Do NOT skip first rocket.

Learn Mega Punch AND Mega Kick upon exit. Heal.

Cerulean: Get Rare Candy 2 behind house. Fight Misty. Learn Bite after defeating Staryu

Heal before rival, purposely put yourself in Torrent Sweep Mode while fighting Rival, and Sweep to Bill's house

Vermillion and SS Anne. Get Rare Candy 3 outside of town. Get bike voucher. First healing spot in the room on the boat. (SS get berries in trash cans.) Fight Rival only. Death abuse back to Cerulean and claim bicycle. Cycle to rock tunnel, getting the hidden Rare Candy 4 along the way

Rock Tunnel: Get thru it. (SS get revive if other one used up)

Celedon: Brick Break and X-item shopping (lots of X-attack, special, and accuracy, few guard spec.) Segmented may want to count these out, I have not done so. Collect PP up for Blizzard later. Get Rare Candy 5 inside of and finish Rocket Hideout for the Silph Scope, get fly, get tea, and dash thru Saffron back to Vermillion.

Vermillion: Fight Surge. Fly to Lavender

Lavender: Buy Revives (SS only) Get Rare Candy 6 in tower. Get Flute. Fly to Celedon.

Celedon: Wake up and brick break Snorlax. Cycling road down to fuschia. Get Rare Candy 7 and max elixer along the way.

Fuschia: Safari Zone, get surf and teeth. Torrent sweep the gym, add and X-special when fighting Koga himself. Fly to Pallet.

Pallet Town: Heal at home, surf to Cinnibar.

Cinnibar: Get Blizzard, Rare Candy 8 and Secret Key in mansion. (SS only) Get vitamins to offset potentially poor IVs. Torrent Sweep Blaine. Fly to Saffron.

Saffron: Beat Silph Co. Get Lapras and Rare Candy 9, and (SS only) collect 2 sets of vitamins, both out in the open and hidden to offset potentially poor IVs. Beat Sabrina. Fly to Fuschia and give teeth to warden. Get Rare Candy 10. Fly to Viridian

Viridian: Giovanni's gym. Use the 10 rare candies before fighting Rival. Go thru Victory Road, avoiding all trainers. Collect Rare Candy 11

Indigo Plateau: Spend all money on Full Restores. (SS also buy revives, if needed). Fight E4. 3 X-attack Loreli. Guard Spec, X-special, Torrent Sweep Brock. X-special Torrent sweep Agatha. X-accuracy Blizzard lance's dragons, and if done properly, you can torrent sweep his aerodactyl. Use your 11th Rare Candy after Lance. (This should put you at level 64-65) Guard spec, X-special, X-speed, X-accuracy on Rival, then use your moveset as needed. All of them should be OHKO.

You win!

Thread title:

I have been given the first 2 posts of this topic, the one that JWise started, for Leaf Green and Fire Red discussion.  This post will cover the "basic" speedrun, getting from your bedroom to the computer registry after defeating the Elite 4 in the shortest period of time possible.

The original strategy involved a Blastoise/Zapdos combination, but since then we have changed that to Blastoise alone, with the help of X-items bought in Celedon Dept. Store and 11 rare candies found en route.  The Blastoise would ideally be a female with a mild nature (gains special attack at the sacrifice of defense), however I settled for a rash nature (gains special attack at the sacrifice of special defense).  This is potentially only problematic fighting Surge's Raichu, the rival's starter, and the occasional trainer's bellsprout early in the run.  Surge was offset in the SS run by postponing him until after entering Celedon City, at a total expense of around 30 seconds lost.  The final moveset was Brick Break, Blizzard, Surf, and Bite.

Torrent Sweep: Squirtle's pokemon ability is "Torrent," which boosts water moves by 1.5 when HP is at or below 1/3.  By purposely keeping Squirtle's HP as low as possible, utilizing torrent to KO enemies in less turns than usual.  A good example of this are the pokes on the way to Mt Moon, where I OHKOed the bugs instead of taking 2 hits each.

Pallet, Viridian, Pallet, Viridian.  Get free potion from random clerk here first time,  catch Pidgey and Ratatta for Fly and Cut the 2nd time.

Forest-Fight bug catcher at the end only.  SS run, collect 2 antidote and potion

Pewter (Segmented Run:  Torrent Sweep Brock)
Shopping stop: repels, potions, recovery items)

(On the way to and thru Mt Moon, Torrent Sweep)
Mt. Moon
Fight Bug catcher near [b]Rare Candy 1[/b], collect candy.  (SS get revive)
Do NOT skip first rocket.

Learn Mega Punch AND Mega Kick upon exit.  Heal.

Cerulean: Get [b]Rare Candy 2[/b] behind house. Fight Misty.  Learn Bite after defeating Staryu

Heal before rival, purposely put yourself in Torrent Sweep Mode while fighting Rival, and Sweep to Bill's house

Vermillion and SS Anne.  Get [b]Rare Candy 3[/b] outside of town. Get bike voucher. First healing spot in the room on the boat.  (SS get berries in trash cans.) Fight Rival only.  Death abuse back to Cerulean and claim bicycle.  Cycle to rock tunnel, getting the hidden [b]Rare Candy 4[/b] along the way

Rock Tunnel: Get thru it.  (SS get revive if other one used up)

Celedon: Brick Break and X-item shopping (lots of X-attack, special, and accuracy, few guard spec.)  Segmented may want to count these out, I have not done so. Collect PP up for Blizzard later. Get [b]Rare Candy 5[/b] inside of and finish Rocket Hideout for the Silph Scope, get fly, get tea, and dash thru Saffron back to Vermillion.

Vermillion:  Fight Surge.  Fly to Lavender

Lavender:  Buy Revives (SS only)  Get [b]Rare Candy 6[/b] in tower.  Get Flute. Fly to Celedon.

Celedon:  Wake up and brick break Snorlax.  Cycling road down to fuschia.  Get [b]Rare Candy 7[/b] and max elixer along the way.

Fuschia: Safari Zone, get surf and teeth.  Torrent sweep the gym, add and X-special when fighting Koga himself.  Fly to Pallet.

Pallet Town:  Heal at home, surf to Cinnibar.

Cinnibar: Get Blizzard, [b]Rare Candy 8[/b] and Secret Key in mansion.  (SS only) Get vitamins to offset potentially poor IVs.  Torrent Sweep Blaine.  Fly to Saffron.

Saffron:  Beat Silph Co.  Get Lapras and [b]Rare Candy 9[/b], and (SS only) collect 2 sets of vitamins, both out in the open and hidden to offset potentially poor IVs.  Beat Sabrina.  Fly to Fuschia and give teeth to warden.  Get [b]Rare Candy 10. [/b] Fly to Viridian

Viridian:  Giovanni's gym.  Use the 10 rare candies before fighting Rival.  Go thru Victory Road, avoiding all trainers.  Collect [b]Rare Candy 11[/b]

Indigo Plateau:  Spend all money on Full Restores.  (SS also buy revives, if needed).  Fight E4.    3 X-attack Loreli.  Guard Spec, X-special, Torrent Sweep Brock.  X-special Torrent sweep Agatha.  X-accuracy Blizzard lance's dragons, and if done properly, you can torrent sweep his aerodactyl.  Use your 11th Rare Candy after Lance. (This should put you at level 64-65) Guard spec, X-special, X-speed, X-accuracy on Rival, then use your moveset as needed.  All of them should be OHKO.

You win!

UltimateDarius

Edit history:

UltimateDarius: 2009-01-30 08:55:39 am

2007-11-04 09:45:41 pm

Back in the game!

This slot is reserved for information regarding the "Elite 4, Round 2" run. The criteria for this run are not only collecting the 8 gym badges and defeating the Elite 4, but also getting 60 pokedex entries and completing some side quests on the islands. Tomorrow this will be updated with what is believed to be the "fastest" 60 entries, and see what we can come up with from there. This is the current run I am preparing to do, and I'd like it to be the best possible...

I will notate that since there are 60 entries that have to be done, it is possible that either Leaf Green or Fire Red could be faster. It's something to look into. Segmented, I suspect that around 60-70 segments are in order. The basic route follows that of above, plus Island stuff.

Noteworthy stuff: Segmented run: Lucky Egg. (1.5 experience points per defeated pokemon, for those of you who don't know.) Available only on wild Chansey, of which we could encounter in Safari Zone. Boosted experience available for 2/3 of the run. This could possibly save us a few rare candies which could in turn be used to single level evolve high level wild pokemon rather than catch new ones.

-Pallet Town-
1. Squirtle (Mild/Rash nature)

-Route 1-
2. Ratatta

-Viridian Forest-
3. Weedle
4. Caterpie
Pikachu*

-Route 3-
5. Spearow
Jigglypuff*
6. Buy Magikarp for $500

-Mt. Moon-
7. Paras
*If Pikachu in forest, get zubat
8. Wartortle (evolved from Squirtle)

-Route 6-
9. Meowth
10. Pidgey (realistically pidgey can be caught anywhere)

-Vermillion City-
11. Trade Spearow for Farfetch'd

-Route 9-
*If Pikachu in forest, get voltorb

-Rock Tunnel-
12. Zubat
13. Geodude
14. Machop

-Celedon City-
15. Abra
16. Clefairy
17. Eevee
(Buy stones as needed)

-Pokemon Tower-7F
18. Gastly
19. Blastoise (evolved from Wartortle)

-Safari Zone-
20. Exeggcute
21. Nidoran M
22. Venonat (may also be obtained south of lavender)
23. Doduo (may also be obtained outside of west fuschia)

-Outside Pewter-
24. Mr Mime (trade)

-Diglett's Cave-
25. Diglett

-Route 11-
26. Drowzee
27. Ekans/Sandshrew
28. Nidorino (rare candy)
29. Nidorina
30. Nidoqueen
Get Itemfinder

-Silph Co.-
31. Lapras

*-Power Plant-*
32. Pikachu
33. Voltorb
34. Zapdos (if no power plant, Masterball Snorlax instead)

-Route 21-
35. Tentacool

-Cinnabar Mansion-
36. Growlithe/Vulpix
37. Koffing
38. Raticate

-Cinnibar Lab-
39. Omanyte
40. Aerodactyl
41. Raichu
42. Electrode (trade the raichu)
43. Tangela (trade the venonat)

-Kindle Road-
44. Ponyta

-Bond Bridge-
45.Oddish/Bellsprout
46. Gloom/Weepinbell
47. Psyduck

-Berry Forest-
48. Hypno

-Cinnibar Lab (again)-
49. Seel (trade ponyta)

-Fighting Dojo-
50. Metapod (exp share)
51. Butterfree (exp share)
52. Kakuna (exp share)
53. Beedrill (exp share)
54. Gyarados (exp share)
55. Hitmonsomething (freebie)

-Indigo Plateau-

56. Eeveeloution
57. Exeggutor
58. Vileplume/Victrebel
59. Ninetales/Arcanine
60. Clefable

5:16 single segment is now the time to beat.

This slot is reserved for information regarding the "Elite 4, Round 2" run.  The criteria for this run are not only collecting the 8 gym badges and defeating the Elite 4, but also getting 60 pokedex entries and completing some side quests on the islands.  Tomorrow this will be updated with what is believed to be the "fastest" 60 entries, and see what we can come up with from there.  This is the current run I am preparing to do, and I'd like it to be the best possible...

I will notate that since there are 60 entries that have to be done, it is possible that either Leaf Green or Fire Red could be faster.  It's something to look into.  Segmented, I suspect that around 60-70 segments are in order.   The basic route follows that of above, plus Island stuff.

Noteworthy stuff:  Segmented run:  Lucky Egg.  (1.5 experience points per defeated pokemon, for those of you who don't know.)  Available only on wild Chansey, of which we could encounter in Safari Zone.  Boosted experience available for 2/3 of the run.  This could possibly save us a few rare candies which could in turn be used to single level evolve high level wild pokemon rather than catch new ones.

-Pallet Town-
1. Squirtle (Mild/Rash nature)

-Route 1-
2. Ratatta

-Viridian Forest-
3. Weedle
4. Caterpie
 Pikachu*

-Route 3-
5. Spearow
 Jigglypuff*
6. Buy Magikarp for $500

-Mt. Moon-
7. Paras
*If Pikachu in forest, get zubat
8. Wartortle (evolved from Squirtle)

-Route 6-
9. Meowth
10. Pidgey  (realistically pidgey can be caught anywhere)

-Vermillion City-
11. Trade Spearow for Farfetch'd

-Route 9- 
*If Pikachu in forest, get voltorb

-Rock Tunnel-
12. Zubat
13. Geodude
14. Machop

-Celedon City-
15. Abra
16. Clefairy
17. Eevee
(Buy stones as needed)

-Pokemon Tower-7F
18. Gastly 
19. Blastoise (evolved from Wartortle)

-Safari Zone-
20. Exeggcute
21. Nidoran M
22. Venonat (may also be obtained south of lavender)
23. Doduo (may also be obtained outside of west fuschia)

-Outside Pewter-
24. Mr Mime (trade)

-Diglett's Cave-
25. Diglett

-Route 11-
26. Drowzee
27. Ekans/Sandshrew
28. Nidorino (rare candy)
29. Nidorina
30. Nidoqueen
[b]Get Itemfinder[/b]

-Silph Co.-
31. Lapras

*-Power Plant-*
32. Pikachu
33. Voltorb
34. Zapdos (if no power plant, Masterball Snorlax instead)

-Route 21-
35. Tentacool

-Cinnabar Mansion-
36. Growlithe/Vulpix
37. Koffing
38. Raticate

-Cinnibar Lab-
39. Omanyte
40. Aerodactyl
41. Raichu
42. Electrode (trade the raichu)
43. Tangela (trade the venonat)

-Kindle Road-
44. Ponyta

-Bond Bridge-
45.Oddish/Bellsprout
46. Gloom/Weepinbell 
47. Psyduck

-Berry Forest-
48. Hypno

-Cinnibar Lab (again)-
49. Seel (trade ponyta)

-Fighting Dojo-
50. Metapod (exp share)
51. Butterfree (exp share)
52. Kakuna (exp share)
53. Beedrill (exp share)
54. Gyarados (exp share)
55. Hitmonsomething (freebie)

-Indigo Plateau-

56. Eeveeloution
57. Exeggutor 
58. Vileplume/Victrebel 
59. Ninetales/Arcanine
60. Clefable

5:16 single segment is now the time to beat.

HeoandReo

Edit history:

HeoandReo: 2007-11-04 11:43:18 pm

2007-11-04 11:31:12 pm

You could have Blastoise take care of the 3 members of the Dragon- family with Ice Beam, and Zapdos can Super Effective hit the rest. If Thunderbolt or Thunder are accessible to you, though, by all means use them. In fact, if you have them, you can replace say, Shock Wave with it once that runs out of PP.

As for the rival fight, Blastoise can Ice Beam Pidgeot, Rhydon and Venusaur, and can Surf Arcainine. Zapdos can use Shock Wave on Gyarados, and Drill Peck Alakazam.

However, I would recommend a rock type for this. (Geodude family, or a Rock Slider, or alternatively, you could start a new game for Blastoise to learn Rock Slide.) Rock types tend to have very good defense, and in Geodude's case, can also make a very good sweeper with high attack. A rock type or a rock typed attack can deal with Sabrina's pokemon, Blaine, and any flyers with little trouble. It's Kryptonite for an unprepared Gyarados. (High attack + Super Effective + Gyarados' low defense = profit)

You could also try the Quick Claw from the Safari Zone, if you really need a speed advantage. It's not guaranteed, but it can make things easier. X Speed is also a viable alternative, but it needs something like Sand Attack or Double Team to be useful. (These things are essential for a solo Pidgey, though. I tried one. :))

EDIT: Also, see if you can scrounge up some more money for healing items to avoid this kind of situation. Sell any TM, hold item, Ball, etc. you don't need.

2nd EDIT: Take advantage of the Natures if possible. Your Blastoise looks like it could use a Gentle nature, as both its S-Es are Special attack type, so it can use the extra Sp. Defense. Of course, the penalty for Defense could be negative. Zapdos, eh... maybe Lonely, Naughty, Mild and Rash could work, depending on whether you see Rock or Ice as a bigger threat to it. Lonely or Mild if Ice'll get you down, Naughty or Rash if Rock will. As for the rock type I suggested, if you want to go for one, accept no other than Adamant.

You could have Blastoise take care of the 3 members of the Dragon- family with Ice Beam, and Zapdos can Super Effective hit the rest. If Thunderbolt or Thunder are accessible to you, though, by all means use them. In fact, if you have them, you can replace say, Shock Wave with it once that runs out of PP.

As for the rival fight, Blastoise can Ice Beam Pidgeot, Rhydon and Venusaur, and can Surf Arcainine. Zapdos can use Shock Wave on Gyarados, and Drill Peck Alakazam.

However, I would recommend a rock type for this. (Geodude family, or a Rock Slider, or alternatively, you could start a new game for Blastoise to learn Rock Slide.) Rock types tend to have very good defense, and in Geodude's case, can also make a very good sweeper with high attack. A rock type or a rock typed attack can deal with Sabrina's pokemon, Blaine, and any flyers with little trouble. It's Kryptonite for an unprepared Gyarados. (High attack + Super Effective + Gyarados' low defense = profit)

You could also try the Quick Claw from the Safari Zone, if you really need a speed advantage. It's not guaranteed, but it can make things easier. X Speed is also a viable alternative, but it needs something like Sand Attack or Double Team to be useful. (These things are essential for a solo Pidgey, though. I tried one. :))

EDIT: Also, see if you can scrounge up some more money for healing items to avoid this kind of situation. Sell any TM, hold item, Ball, etc. you don't need.

2nd EDIT: Take advantage of the Natures if possible. Your Blastoise looks like it could use a Gentle nature, as both its S-Es are Special attack type, so it can use the extra Sp. Defense. Of course, the penalty for Defense could be negative. Zapdos, eh... maybe Lonely, Naughty, Mild and Rash could work, depending on whether you see Rock or Ice as a bigger threat to it. Lonely or Mild if Ice'll get you down, Naughty or Rash if Rock will. As for the rock type I suggested, if you want to go for one, accept no other than Adamant.

JWise

2007-11-04 11:45:51 pm

What Are Ya' Buyin?

Well I am going to start a new test run. Thanks for the suggestions. They might come in handy in this run.

One problem I had in that run was the battle with the rival on the SS Anne. Any suggestions for it? I had Wartortle take out Kadabra easy (Bite), as well as Pidgeotto and Raticate (Water Pulse). The Ivysaur was extremely hard to beat, though, and I only won by luck. Would taking the time to do a couple more trainer battles in the Viridian Forest and/or Mt. Moon benefit me? Or would it be a waste of valuable time?

HeoandReo

Edit history:

HeoandReo: 2007-11-04 11:57:33 pm

2007-11-04 11:56:49 pm

Quote:

Well I am going to start a new test run. Thanks for the suggestions. They might come in handy in this run.

One problem I had in that run was the battle with the rival on the SS Anne. Any suggestions for it? I had Wartortle take out Kadabra easy (Bite), as well as Pidgeotto and Raticate (Water Pulse). The Ivysaur was extremely hard to beat, though, and I only won by luck. Would taking the time to do a couple more trainer battles in the Viridian Forest and/or Mt. Moon benefit me? Or would it be a waste of valuable time?

If the other Pokemon are hurting on your Wartortle, that might be a good time for the Rock type to step in. Geodude's the best option, IMO, as it has the highest attack of the selectable Rock types, comes in the game early, easy to catch, and is fastest to raise. (Rhyhorn actually has a higher attack stat than Geodude, but comes too late in the game to be useful, and takes much longer to raise. At the time you can actually get a Rhyhorn, Geodude/Graveller should already be at a higher level.) Kadabra's natural enemy is a high attack poke, and a good solid Rock Tomb can deal with Pidgeotto. Raticate won't be able to damage it much. Then you can have Wartortle take on Ivysaur fully charged. Geodude can also sweep Lt. Surge with several Magnitudes, allowing you to clear it simply.

So for your problems overall, I'd definitely advise you get a Geodude. Its only problems are its Water and Grass weaknesses. You could raise its EVs in Defense to let it take the Ground and Steel damage, and Blastoise and Zapdos can take care of the special types.

[quote]Well I am going to start a new test run. Thanks for the suggestions. They might come in handy in this run.

One problem I had in that run was the battle with the rival on the SS Anne. Any suggestions for it? I had Wartortle take out Kadabra easy (Bite), as well as Pidgeotto and Raticate (Water Pulse). The Ivysaur was extremely hard to beat, though, and I only won by luck. Would taking the time to do a couple more trainer battles in the Viridian Forest and/or Mt. Moon benefit me? Or would it be a waste of valuable time?[/quote]

If the other Pokemon are hurting on your Wartortle, that might be a good time for the Rock type to step in. Geodude's the best option, IMO, as it has the highest attack of the selectable Rock types, comes in the game early, easy to catch, and is fastest to raise. (Rhyhorn actually has a higher attack stat than Geodude, but comes too late in the game to be useful, and takes much longer to raise. At the time you can actually get a Rhyhorn, Geodude/Graveller should already be at a higher level.) Kadabra's natural enemy is a high attack poke, and a good solid Rock Tomb can deal with Pidgeotto. Raticate won't be able to damage it much. Then you can have Wartortle take on Ivysaur fully charged. Geodude can also sweep Lt. Surge with several Magnitudes, allowing you to clear it simply.

So for your problems overall, I'd definitely advise you get a Geodude. Its only problems are its Water and Grass weaknesses. You could raise its EVs in Defense to let it take the Ground and Steel damage, and Blastoise and Zapdos can take care of the special types.

yoshmaster5

2007-11-05 01:37:31 am

Also tenkiforecast

Only problem with that is it removes from Wartortle's experience. That, makes Blastoise evolve later, and that could botch a number of attempts/ideas.

Plus... if you try to EV train in a speed run, I'd go over to you and slap you. That's moronic... because without the Power items from D/P, EV training takes forever, ESPICALLY without the Macho Brace. Plus, if you have to catch a Geodude in Mt. moon, where will it be levelled up to learn Magnitude? That sucks more experience from poor Wartortle, making more risky strategies necessary.

For Zapdos and the Shockwave issue... Pick up Thunder at the Power Plant. 30 second detour, if that. and I'm assuming Ice Beam is Blizzard, as well... because of the bloody TM changes...

As for Rival/Elite Four... the Quick Claw is an idea. since this relies so much on Luck already, getting a 1st hit on the problem poke is a good idea. And... USE X-ITEMS. 0_o; I was amazed by how effective they are in the current PKMN runs... and the way they work hasn't changed in FR/LG.

Only problem with that is it removes from Wartortle's experience.  That, makes Blastoise evolve later, and that could botch a number of attempts/ideas.

Plus... if you try to EV train in a speed run, I'd go over to you and slap you. That's moronic... because without the Power items from D/P, EV training takes forever, ESPICALLY without the Macho Brace. Plus, if you have to catch a Geodude in Mt. moon, where will it be levelled up to learn Magnitude? That sucks more experience from poor Wartortle, making more risky strategies necessary.

For Zapdos and the Shockwave issue... Pick up Thunder at the Power Plant. 30 second detour, if that. and I'm assuming Ice Beam is Blizzard, as well... because of the bloody TM changes...

As for Rival/Elite Four... the Quick Claw is an idea. since this relies so much on Luck already, getting a 1st hit on the problem poke is a good idea. And... USE X-ITEMS. 0_o; I was amazed by how effective they are in the current PKMN runs... and the way they work hasn't changed in FR/LG.

JWise

2007-11-05 02:57:07 am

What Are Ya' Buyin?

Well I just finished the Rock Tunnel in this new run and I've managed to shave 5 minutes off of my time at this point, along with having Wartortle with 2 more levels than I had after the Tunnel in my previous run. Instead of getting a low level Digglet in the D. Cave (to use for Cut), I picked up a Dugtrio, allowing Lt. Surge to go down quicker and allow time to give Wartortle some experience against his trainers (using Dig). I figured I needed one of them for Cut anyway, so I might as well try for a Dugtrio to help with the gym (especially since I'm doing segmented). I also used it to weaken Ivysaur in the Rival battle before Wartortle went in for the kill.

Needless to say, this test run is turning out really good. After this one I might attempt a recorded run and submit if it's good enough. I'm very confident that I can get sub-3, but I don't think I'm capable of getting it any lower than that with my skill level. What would you guys say is a good time to shoot for in a FireRed run?

I know the record is 2:09 for a Red run, but, as you obviously know, there are a few time savers that can't be used in FireRed (such as 'Dig'ging back to the Pokemon Center) and you can't as easily get some almost necessary moves (such as having to get Ice Beam from the Game Corner now).

And just to clear things up, on my previous run I managed to forget to get the Thunder TM in the PP so I was stuck with Shock Wave, and I used Ice Beam over Blizzard due to getting more uses out of it and a higher accuracy.

Well I just finished the Rock Tunnel in this new run and I've managed to shave 5 minutes off of my time at this point, along with having Wartortle with 2 more levels than I had after the Tunnel in my previous run. Instead of getting a low level Digglet in the D. Cave (to use for Cut), I picked up a Dugtrio, allowing Lt. Surge to go down quicker and allow time to give Wartortle some experience against his trainers (using Dig). I figured I needed one of them for Cut anyway, so I might as well try for a Dugtrio to help with the gym (especially since I'm doing segmented). I also used it to weaken Ivysaur in the Rival battle before Wartortle went in for the kill.

Needless to say, this test run is turning out really good. After this one I might attempt a recorded run and submit if it's good enough. I'm very confident that I can get sub-3, but I don't think I'm capable of getting it any lower than that with my skill level. What would you guys say is a good time to shoot for in a FireRed run?

I know the record is 2:09 for a Red run, but, as you obviously know, there are a few time savers that can't be used in FireRed (such as 'Dig'ging back to the Pokemon Center) and you can't as easily get some almost necessary moves (such as having to get Ice Beam from the Game Corner now).

And just to clear things up, on my previous run I managed to forget to get the Thunder TM in the PP so I was stuck with Shock Wave, and I used Ice Beam over Blizzard due to getting more uses out of it and a higher accuracy.

JWise

2007-11-05 09:38:37 pm

What Are Ya' Buyin?

So what are some alternate strategies for FireRed other than a Squirtle/Zapdos run? I know there have to be others

HeoandReo

2007-11-05 09:54:22 pm

Ah, a Dugtrio. I forgot about that. I've had bad experiences with them, myself, but then again, I wasn't speedrunning.

What about Rock Slide? Are you going to pick it up? Again, I'd recommend Dugtrio learn it. It also has good attack, and its insane speed can make it most advantageous. Dugtrio can work well in anything Geodude worked in, and Giovanni as well, with Earthquake or a good Magnitude.

The main problem with Dugtrio, though, is its nearly nonexistent HP stat. One good hit will kill it, so be careful.

Thomaz

2007-11-05 10:03:57 pm

Catchin' them all

I was planning on running this game when I get the time and I've been thinking of Mankey/Primeape. It gets quite the handfull of moves aside from Fighting moves. Think of Rock Tomb after Brock, Earthquake, Thunderbolt (lol), Aerial Ace etc.

Reasonable Atk and Spd score help.

Really, it was just an idea that I haven't tried yet.

JWise

2007-11-05 11:21:29 pm

What Are Ya' Buyin?

Right now I'm at 1:47 in my test run. Blastoise is almost level 40, plus I have a Dugtrio (Cut) and a Doduo (Fly) that I'm using for HM slaves. I'm about to go to Fuschia City to defeat Koga before heading to Cinnibar for Blaine, then Erika, Sylph Co., Sabrina, Zapdos, Giovanni, Victory Rd., and the Elite 4.

My question is: in previous runs I've taught Blastoise Strength, only leaving room for 2 attacks (since Surf is also a must). Since I need one spot for Earthquake, I've had to choose between Blizzard and Ice Beam for the final spot. Would it be worth my while to catch a Poke in the Safari Zone that can use Strength so that I can keep both Blizzard and Ice Beam> If so what would be a good choice?

yoshmaster5

2007-11-06 12:59:25 am

Also tenkiforecast

Well, on the blizzard/ice beam issue...

Isn't it possible to do the PP Replacement strategy again? And for strength, it's possible to get a poke earlier that can learn strength. (Checks Serebii.net)

Lapras learns Strength. Get it, you have Strength taken care of. And without the insanity of catching something else, that is obviously a bonus.

Either way, good luck! *raises flags*

JWise

2007-11-06 01:23:03 am

What Are Ya' Buyin?

Well now I'm at the Viridian Gym in 2:27. Unless I get extremely lucky in the Elite 4, I don't think I'll be able to get sub-3, mainly due to the Lorelei battle always taking me forever and Agatha not being much easier. I'm going to keep going, though, because you never know.

JWise

2007-11-06 02:51:16 am

What Are Ya' Buyin?

Ok I finished this test run. My final time was 3:08. If the Rival battle could have been 4 minutes faster (had problems, took a while) and if I could have saved 5 more minutes elsewhere in the run (I wasted 3 minutes in Mt. Moon because of stupidity, for example) then it would have been sub-3. I'm for sure going to run this again, and will post with some updates. Might take a week or so though because I'm going to New York with my high school band for a week. Anyway, here are my times in this run. Unless otherwise noted, these times were taken upon saving in the nearest Pokemon Center. I'll also include my previous run times just for reference in parenthesis.

Start of Viridian Forest: 0:06 (0:07)
Mt. Moon: 0:21 (0:23)
Cerulean City: 0:29 (0:29)
Vermillion City: 0:52 (0:53)
Rock Tunnel: 1:11 (1:13)
Lavender Town: 1:21 (1:26)
Cycling Road: 1:47 (1:52)
Cinnibar Island: 1:57 (2:04)
Saffron City: 2:09 (2:17)
Viridian City: 2:27 (2:30) *
Victory Road: 2:38 (2:45)
Elite 4: 2:43 (2:50)
Final Time: 3:08

*I should note that in the segment before reaching Viridian City in this run, I chose to get the Ice Beam TM from the Game Corner before beating the gym. In the first run I got it after, hence the Saffron-Viridian seg. taking longer the second time.

Ok I finished this test run. My final time was 3:08. If the Rival battle could have been 4 minutes faster (had problems, took a while) and if I could have saved 5 more minutes elsewhere in the run (I wasted 3 minutes in Mt. Moon because of stupidity, for example) then it would have been sub-3. I'm for sure going to run this again, and will post with some updates. Might take a week or so though because I'm going to New York with my high school band for a week. Anyway, here are my times in this run. Unless otherwise noted, these times were taken upon saving in the nearest Pokemon Center. I'll also include my previous run times just for reference in parenthesis.

Start of Viridian Forest: 0:06 (0:07)
Mt. Moon: 0:21 (0:23)
Cerulean City: 0:29 (0:29)
Vermillion City: 0:52 (0:53)
Rock Tunnel: 1:11 (1:13)
Lavender Town: 1:21 (1:26)
Cycling Road: 1:47 (1:52)
Cinnibar Island: 1:57 (2:04)
Saffron City: 2:09 (2:17)
Viridian City: 2:27 (2:30) *
Victory Road: 2:38 (2:45)
Elite 4: 2:43 (2:50)
Final Time: 3:08

*I should note that in the segment before reaching Viridian City in this run, I chose to get the Ice Beam TM from the Game Corner before beating the gym. In the first run I got it after, hence the Saffron-Viridian seg. taking longer the second time.

UltimateDarius

2007-12-14 04:09:29 am

Back in the game!

What's the point of Zapdos?

DTaeKim

2007-12-14 05:57:17 am

I'm going to guess Lorelei.

ShadowLaguna

2007-12-14 07:45:56 am

THE GAME!!

I didn't like FireRed or LeafGreen but a run of this would be cool.

UltimateDarius

2007-12-15 07:52:34 pm

Back in the game!

Quote:

I'm going to guess Lorelei.

I don't see how that makes sense...Zapdos is clearly out of the way...why not just use one poke?

DTaeKim

2007-12-15 10:24:55 pm

The person started with Blastoise. An under-leveled Blastoise against Lorelei's water and ice pokemon? It's going to take a while.

Zapdos starts at level 50 and has moves that would be super-effective against Lorelei and Bruno thanks to Drill Peck. Since we cannot abuse the mechanics of the original, we have to resort to brute force instead of Charizard/Nidoking + Fissure/Horn Drill.

ForteGS

2007-12-15 11:38:18 pm

Bring me the flaming voodoo canonball!

It's a shame that Articuno takes too long to get.
Or else Articuno and Zapdos could have owned the E4.

UltimateDarius

2007-12-16 03:20:24 am

Back in the game!

Quote:

The person started with Blastoise. An under-leveled Blastoise against Lorelei's water and ice pokemon? It's going to take a while.

Zapdos starts at level 50 and has moves that would be super-effective against Lorelei and Bruno thanks to Drill Peck. Since we cannot abuse the mechanics of the original, we have to resort to brute force instead of Charizard/Nidoking + Fissure/Horn Drill.

Instead of Zapdos, why not only raise Blastoise? He can learn Earthquake, which is a powerful attack, obviously, and can take loreli, no problem. Her ice and water attacks have little effect on Blastoise. The only Pokemon of true concern is the rivals final venusaur, and even then, not that much.

petrie911

Edit history:

petrie911: 2007-12-16 04:02:23 am

2007-12-16 04:02:05 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Except for Jynx, Lorelei's pokemon are all tanks, and Blastoise's attack is pretty low. EQ just won't cut it. Besides, it's not like we're actually going to level Zapdos. It comes at Level 50, which is more than enough to take down Lorelei.

BTW, would this run do the Islands or end after the first elite 4? It just seems more complete to go to elite 4 round 2, like how the GSC run goes to Red (it does, doesn't it?).

UltimateDarius

2007-12-16 04:14:09 am

Back in the game!

Quote:

Except for Jynx, Lorelei's pokemon are all tanks, and Blastoise's attack is pretty low. EQ just won't cut it. Besides, it's not like we're actually going to level Zapdos. It comes at Level 50, which is more than enough to take down Lorelei.

BTW, would this run do the Islands or end after the first elite 4? It just seems more complete to go to elite 4 round 2, like how the GSC run goes to Red (it does, doesn't it?).

That's because I am stupid. I actually meant Brick Break, not Earthquake...I was having another pokemon convo at the same time =P

I would assume speedrunning this game assumes the fastest way to beat the game. 100% run (if there even IS such a thing for pokemon) would include the islands, I'd say.

DTaeKim

2007-12-17 01:34:43 am

Gold/Silver did go for Red. Do you get something different if you finish the Elite 4 Round 2?

petrie911

2007-12-17 09:02:55 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Well, you get the Elite 4 round 2. Isn't that different enough?

I don't think you get anything different, but it just seems like a run should include the islands and E4r2.

Besides, there are other interesting things associated with making that the end goal. Like making sure you have 60 pokedex entries by the time you face the E4. And being able to beat the E4r2 (they're not easy...).