Since we need to perm the glitched inventory by depositing one item from the character's inventory I grab the Key Tube and Red Card as a means of protecting the run. Bad RNG can cause you to either have to grind a while or just straight up miss these objects. The Key Tube is taken when we glitch Rolf's inventory at the start, specifically from accessing slot 0 which is above the "next" on the second page of items. The Red Card is from accessing slot 48 in Rudo's inventory which corresponds to Amy's luck stat. Note that you don't need these items specifically to perm the glitched inventory, and in fact it might be marginally faster to just perm it by depositing Laconiamets - although it would be a bit riskier. Hopefully that clears things up.
SDA Forum
Dapper as fuck.
Ok so you weren't kidding about Dark Force ending runs. I did another run and got to him again with better levels. I was running on emu so I save stated right in front of him. The first time I fought him I got bad Neisword procs and he smashed me again, but I reloaded my state and got him the 2nd time around. I timed this one just for giggles and left the timer running through the state reload and ended with a 1:38:13. The Dark Force RNG got me thinking about how to make this a bit more marathon safe if one were to ever want to enter it into one. I'm wondering if it would be easy enough to glitch in the visiphone to drop a safety save in front of Dark Force, without spending too much extra time. Thoughts?
To get the Visiphone relatively easily, simply underflow Nei's Agility (Slot 46 in Rolf's inventory) using the sandals before initiating the defense chain of stat manipulations. You'll get a Jeweled Crown first, then the Visiphone after perming the underflow. Its also more than likely possible to get it after glitching in the Storm Gear during Amy's defense manipulation, but I never really looked into it all that much to be honest. Hope this helps.
Besides some of the obvious shorter text boxes, the Japanese version has an exclusive glitch that allows for the generation of glitched characters. These characters also have full inventories, and it just so happens that one has a Neisword. The big time saver is that the Neisword you get from this character acts as if you were in Noah, allowing you to 'use' it and head straight to Esper Mansion - skipping most of Mota and all of Dezo. As far as performing it goes, its really simple. When reordering the party, just hold up and mash C. The character that has the Neisword is easy to recognize as its two 4 non hex-valued character names stacked on each other vertically. The first one you come across is usually "ひセひツ/ひセひソ" although if you keep going on the names will most likely change.
Leader of Starbirdia!
glad to see another runner here for this game. Jiseed has this down to a science (as well as the unofficial record) and the best I've been able to do is like 1:15:xx or something similar. it was fun sharing ideas with Jiseed to get this run to where it is. it's optimized pretty well and the rest is just menu speed as well as appeasing our lord RNGesus.
and yeah, Dark Force is a run killer (then again, so are Slugmesses), so if anybody ever dares to do this game live at a GDQ, the Visiphone will save your run.
and yeah, Dark Force is a run killer (then again, so are Slugmesses), so if anybody ever dares to do this game live at a GDQ, the Visiphone will save your run.
Dapper as fuck.
So, not my best time, but I got a 1:22:38 last night. I'm excited about this one because it was my very first attempt to do a run without using the item glitch to get the visiphone to safety save before Dark Force. I ended up smashing him on the first try, which I don't think I've ever had such a decisive victory over him before. I was a little rusty from not playing for about a month so I had a couple bad menuing spots and some wrong turns in dams while I remembered my bearings.
Just a few notes of interest:
1) I tested the item glitch on the Sega Ages 2500 Volume 32: Phantasy Star Complete Collection version of the game. It still works. That version of the game would be by far preferable to run, since it lets you run around maps at 4x normal speed. It also has a difficulty slider (normal is the original difficulty, easy doubles XP and meseta from encounters, very easy quadruples XP and meseta from encounters). I'm pretty sure Easy and Very Easy mode lower encounter rates as well, although they lower encounter rates by less than they boost EXP.
2) Using the PSCC version with 4x movement and Very Easy mode, a glitchless run should be perfectly feasible. I did an exploratory run (no routing or planning, just playing through the game completely normally with an FAQ) and managed a clear in 5:35 with minimal grinding after losing 25 minutes of progress to a wipe where I hadn't safety saved. Sub-5 should be trivial, and I suspect with routing and actual planning sub-4 should be possible. The only grinding I had to do was a little bit at Uzo Island for armor upgrades (and I rolled grinding Shir to level 10 into this).
3) The PSCC version also has a toggleable option where you can hold X in battles to double animation speed.
My basic strategy went something like:
(For the whole run: Fight all battles. PS2's run command is terrible and it's often faster to just kill everything. Upgrade weapons whenever possible unless there's a chest upgrade coming soon.)
Buy a second Knife for Rolf and a Steel Bar for Nei. Run to Arima. If you got a battle on the way, warp to Paseo, otherwise run back. Fight all battles, PS2's run command is awful and you can generally kill things faster.
Recruit Rudo and put him in the party.
Grind outside Paseo until you can afford 2 Knives for Rudo (sell his Bowgun) and a second Steel Bar for Nei. It shouldn't take more than 1-2 battles.
Go straight to Shure. Rush through, fight everything, ignore all chests but the Dynamite.
Stop in town for healing if needed (I did) then go straight to Nido Tower. Go straight to Teim, ignore all chests.
Go to the tube and watch Teim die, proceed to Oputa. Warp back to Paseo, recruit Amy and put her in the party (she makes a good warm body for the next segment and the little bit of extra healing doesn't hurt if she stays alive).
Go to the Biosystems Lab. Ignore all chests but the Star Mist and the Dynamite. Get the recorder and Hinas out.
Return to Paseo, go to the central tower, then recruit Hugh. He has no use in this run.
Go to Zema, return to Paseo, recruit Anna. Change party to Rolf/Nei/Rudo/Anna. (Amy won't be used anymore, if she has any items you want to keep make sure to grab them)
Go to Roron, go straight to the Jet Scooter. Pick up the Cannon chest along the way and equip it on Rudo when you do.
Go to Kueri and Piata, then return to Paseo and recruit Kain and Shir. Change party to Rolf/Nei/Rudo/Shir.
Go to Uzo Island and grind randoms around the entrance. These are very, very hard fights and you should go all out; use Rolf's big techniques, etc. Make sure Shir stays alive, it shouldn't take more than like 6-7 battles at most to get her to level 10 I think. Return to town and heal if Rolf runs out of TP. In the process of doing this you should also make enough money to buy Piata armor upgrades for Rolf, Rudo and Anna, do so.
Return to Paseo and steal the Visiphone, then change party to Rolf/Nei/Rudo/Anna.
Go to Uzo Island again and complete the dungeon this time, getting the Maruera leaf or whatever. Take it to the guy in Kueri and get the gum. Now would also be a good time to teach Rolf Musik in Oputa so you don't forget. I suggest also filling your inventory with Di- or Trimates.
Go to Climatrol. Ignore all chests, just go straight to Neifirst. Safety save in front of her. Go all out in the fight, it's very risky without Deban.
Cry over Nei's death and return to Paseo, change party to Rolf/Rudo/Kain/Anna. This will be the party you use for the rest of the run.
Go through the Control Tower normally.
Dams can be done in any order and I'm not sure what would be fastest.
In Red Dam, you should pick up the Sword of Anger at minimum; the Fire Slasher is probably worth it also. Ignore the Fire Staff.
In Yellow Dam, all three Crystal armors should be picked up; ignore the Escapipe and Amber Robe.
In Blue Dam, the Star Mist, Snow Crown, and Storm Gear should be picked up; the other chests are skippable. I picked up Crescegear in my run but never used it. Kain should wear the Storm Gear and use it as his primary attack, Anna should carry the Snow Crown.
In Green Dam, the Star Mist and Aegis should be picked up. Equip the Aegis on Kain.
Gaira is trivial unless running trolls you.
Go straight to Skure. In Skure, pick up the Mogic Cap, Laconia Chest, Garda Boots, and all meseta. Visit all 3 towns on Dezolis and buy weapon upgrades (armor can wait, as usual). SAVE IN AUKBA so that Ryuka returns you there..
Go through the Crevice, talk to Lutz, etc.
For the Dezo dungeons, do Ikuto first. The order of the others doesn't matter.
Ikuto - Collect the Nei Shot and Nei Slasher. If you're still hurting for money for armor upgrades, go ahead and pick up the Laconia Dagger and Plasma Cannon to sell as well. Ignore the rest.
Menobe - Collect the Nei Crown, Neimet and the second Storm Gear (Anna should carry it), ignore the rest.
Guaron - Collect the Nei Armor and Nei Cape. Also collect the Laconinish if you haven't bought one.
Naval - Just collect the Nei Shield and Nei Emel.
Return to Lutz and claim the Nei Sword. Pay attention to the music. If the music hangs and sound effects stop playing, save immediately and reset the game before continuing because buggy game.
Make sure you have a full inventory of Trimates and your 3 Star Mists. Give 2 Star Mists to Anna, keep one on Rolf.
Go to Noah, run straight to Dark Force. Visiphone save. Kill him. Rolf should attack, Anna should use Snow Crown immediately and then attack when she isn't healing, Rudo should attack, Kain should backup heal as well. Pray for good RNG. As long as Rolf and Rudo stay alive, you can finish the run; Anna is dead weight against Mother Brain. Losing Kain hurts very badly but does not actually make winning impossible. I was about level 30 for him.
Do not return to town after Dark Force, go straight to Mother Brain. Go all out on her - Rolf should spam Nafoi until out of TP, Kain should spam Nagaj until out of MP, Rudo should attack, Anna should heal as necessary. Snow Crown on turn 1 as usual. MB is an easy fight.
1) I tested the item glitch on the Sega Ages 2500 Volume 32: Phantasy Star Complete Collection version of the game. It still works. That version of the game would be by far preferable to run, since it lets you run around maps at 4x normal speed. It also has a difficulty slider (normal is the original difficulty, easy doubles XP and meseta from encounters, very easy quadruples XP and meseta from encounters). I'm pretty sure Easy and Very Easy mode lower encounter rates as well, although they lower encounter rates by less than they boost EXP.
2) Using the PSCC version with 4x movement and Very Easy mode, a glitchless run should be perfectly feasible. I did an exploratory run (no routing or planning, just playing through the game completely normally with an FAQ) and managed a clear in 5:35 with minimal grinding after losing 25 minutes of progress to a wipe where I hadn't safety saved. Sub-5 should be trivial, and I suspect with routing and actual planning sub-4 should be possible. The only grinding I had to do was a little bit at Uzo Island for armor upgrades (and I rolled grinding Shir to level 10 into this).
3) The PSCC version also has a toggleable option where you can hold X in battles to double animation speed.
My basic strategy went something like:
(For the whole run: Fight all battles. PS2's run command is terrible and it's often faster to just kill everything. Upgrade weapons whenever possible unless there's a chest upgrade coming soon.)
Buy a second Knife for Rolf and a Steel Bar for Nei. Run to Arima. If you got a battle on the way, warp to Paseo, otherwise run back. Fight all battles, PS2's run command is awful and you can generally kill things faster.
Recruit Rudo and put him in the party.
Grind outside Paseo until you can afford 2 Knives for Rudo (sell his Bowgun) and a second Steel Bar for Nei. It shouldn't take more than 1-2 battles.
Go straight to Shure. Rush through, fight everything, ignore all chests but the Dynamite.
Stop in town for healing if needed (I did) then go straight to Nido Tower. Go straight to Teim, ignore all chests.
Go to the tube and watch Teim die, proceed to Oputa. Warp back to Paseo, recruit Amy and put her in the party (she makes a good warm body for the next segment and the little bit of extra healing doesn't hurt if she stays alive).
Go to the Biosystems Lab. Ignore all chests but the Star Mist and the Dynamite. Get the recorder and Hinas out.
Return to Paseo, go to the central tower, then recruit Hugh. He has no use in this run.
Go to Zema, return to Paseo, recruit Anna. Change party to Rolf/Nei/Rudo/Anna. (Amy won't be used anymore, if she has any items you want to keep make sure to grab them)
Go to Roron, go straight to the Jet Scooter. Pick up the Cannon chest along the way and equip it on Rudo when you do.
Go to Kueri and Piata, then return to Paseo and recruit Kain and Shir. Change party to Rolf/Nei/Rudo/Shir.
Go to Uzo Island and grind randoms around the entrance. These are very, very hard fights and you should go all out; use Rolf's big techniques, etc. Make sure Shir stays alive, it shouldn't take more than like 6-7 battles at most to get her to level 10 I think. Return to town and heal if Rolf runs out of TP. In the process of doing this you should also make enough money to buy Piata armor upgrades for Rolf, Rudo and Anna, do so.
Return to Paseo and steal the Visiphone, then change party to Rolf/Nei/Rudo/Anna.
Go to Uzo Island again and complete the dungeon this time, getting the Maruera leaf or whatever. Take it to the guy in Kueri and get the gum. Now would also be a good time to teach Rolf Musik in Oputa so you don't forget. I suggest also filling your inventory with Di- or Trimates.
Go to Climatrol. Ignore all chests, just go straight to Neifirst. Safety save in front of her. Go all out in the fight, it's very risky without Deban.
Cry over Nei's death and return to Paseo, change party to Rolf/Rudo/Kain/Anna. This will be the party you use for the rest of the run.
Go through the Control Tower normally.
Dams can be done in any order and I'm not sure what would be fastest.
In Red Dam, you should pick up the Sword of Anger at minimum; the Fire Slasher is probably worth it also. Ignore the Fire Staff.
In Yellow Dam, all three Crystal armors should be picked up; ignore the Escapipe and Amber Robe.
In Blue Dam, the Star Mist, Snow Crown, and Storm Gear should be picked up; the other chests are skippable. I picked up Crescegear in my run but never used it. Kain should wear the Storm Gear and use it as his primary attack, Anna should carry the Snow Crown.
In Green Dam, the Star Mist and Aegis should be picked up. Equip the Aegis on Kain.
Gaira is trivial unless running trolls you.
Go straight to Skure. In Skure, pick up the Mogic Cap, Laconia Chest, Garda Boots, and all meseta. Visit all 3 towns on Dezolis and buy weapon upgrades (armor can wait, as usual). SAVE IN AUKBA so that Ryuka returns you there..
Go through the Crevice, talk to Lutz, etc.
For the Dezo dungeons, do Ikuto first. The order of the others doesn't matter.
Ikuto - Collect the Nei Shot and Nei Slasher. If you're still hurting for money for armor upgrades, go ahead and pick up the Laconia Dagger and Plasma Cannon to sell as well. Ignore the rest.
Menobe - Collect the Nei Crown, Neimet and the second Storm Gear (Anna should carry it), ignore the rest.
Guaron - Collect the Nei Armor and Nei Cape. Also collect the Laconinish if you haven't bought one.
Naval - Just collect the Nei Shield and Nei Emel.
Return to Lutz and claim the Nei Sword. Pay attention to the music. If the music hangs and sound effects stop playing, save immediately and reset the game before continuing because buggy game.
Make sure you have a full inventory of Trimates and your 3 Star Mists. Give 2 Star Mists to Anna, keep one on Rolf.
Go to Noah, run straight to Dark Force. Visiphone save. Kill him. Rolf should attack, Anna should use Snow Crown immediately and then attack when she isn't healing, Rudo should attack, Kain should backup heal as well. Pray for good RNG. As long as Rolf and Rudo stay alive, you can finish the run; Anna is dead weight against Mother Brain. Losing Kain hurts very badly but does not actually make winning impossible. I was about level 30 for him.
Do not return to town after Dark Force, go straight to Mother Brain. Go all out on her - Rolf should spam Nafoi until out of TP, Kain should spam Nagaj until out of MP, Rudo should attack, Anna should heal as necessary. Snow Crown on turn 1 as usual. MB is an easy fight.
Dapper as fuck.
Quote from Reiska:
If the music hangs and sound effects stop playing, save immediately and reset the game before continuing because buggy game.
Huh. The genesis cart does this too. And it seems to do it every time I get there. If I'm running marathon safe strats I just deal with it through Noah, save at Dark Force, and reset. My 1:22:38 I mentioned above I had to just deal with it since I didn't have anything to save with.
Dapper as fuck.
Quote from Reiska:
Yeah, it seems to be a fairly well known bug in the romhacking community. I'm not sure what exactly triggers the bug, but I do know that the main symptom of it is that the game will hard lock if you attempt to use the Neisword to return to Esper Mansion.
That's good to know. I've never had to use the Neisword to get back, but now if I ever do I know I can't if I don't have the visiphone.
Thinking on it, for the glitchless route, red's probably the best dam to do first because of the weapons. I guess I'd go red-yellow-blue-green like I do in a casual run; you want the weapons ASAP, the armors are helpful (possibly skippable but it'd make combats before Dezolis much riskier, and some of them are best in slot I think - the Chest could probably be skipped since you get the free Laconia one in not too long?), and while the stuff in the Blue dam is essential for the endgame, it's not likely to make or break anything in the other dams. Maybe the Storm Gear would speed things up a bit, I don't know; red-blue-yellow-green might be a credible order.
Quote from philosoraptor42:
Quote from Reiska:
Yeah, it seems to be a fairly well known bug in the romhacking community. I'm not sure what exactly triggers the bug, but I do know that the main symptom of it is that the game will hard lock if you attempt to use the Neisword to return to Esper Mansion.
That's good to know. I've never had to use the Neisword to get back, but now if I ever do I know I can't if I don't have the visiphone.
Any save point is good, just don't use the sword, my casual playthrough I walked all way back through the ice caverns to use a traditional save point... I know in speedruns it probably makes it a reset, but if you need to do it for a marathon or something, you can also dodge encounters by opening the menu back and forth if your that desperate to and from places safely.
Edit: I should specify the encounter starts AFTER a step is taken, so interrupting that will interrupt any chance of getting it with a menu.
Dapper as fuck.
Quote from Jiseed:
Just thought I'd help out on the sound glitch a little. It happens in every run I've seen and the easiest way to get rid of it is to simply pause and unpause twice. That will fix the issue and make the Neisword usable, although I don't see why you would need to use it in a speedrun.
Now that's bad ass. Thanks for that!
I wasn't so much concerned with using the Neisword as having dead audio on the last few minutes of my runs.
Leader of Starbirdia!
yeah, most carts have the music issue, though I seem to recall my uncle's PS2 cart (he paid a lot to get one of the first ones) didn't have that glitch. at least that I remember anyway. but yeah, pausing twice will clear it up. kills a bit of time in the speedrun but it's better than listening to that one note for the rest of the game, especially when the last few tracks of the game are so awesome.
Dapper as fuck.
Quote from MrStarbird:
yeah, most carts have the music issue, though I seem to recall my uncle's PS2 cart (he paid a lot to get one of the first ones) didn't have that glitch. at least that I remember anyway. but yeah, pausing twice will clear it up. kills a bit of time in the speedrun but it's better than listening to that one note for the rest of the game, especially when the last few tracks of the game are so awesome.
Agreed. I gave it a try on my last run and worked like a charm.
I've recently picked up PS2 on my PC via the Sega Genesis & Mega Drive Classics on Steam. I can probably create a decent recording of this game now, and I'm entertaining thoughts of doing so for the site. My one issue is whether or not it'd actually be an accepted version for SDA. Any thoughts on this?
Quote from Jiseed:
I've recently picked up PS2 on my PC via the Sega Genesis & Mega Drive Classics on Steam. I can probably create a decent recording of this game now, and I'm entertaining thoughts of doing so for the site. My one issue is whether or not it'd actually be an accepted version for SDA. Any thoughts on this?
As long as you don't tap into features not implemented on a cart (quick saving & the save states provided by the collection) I don't see how this would be a problem.
Learning to Stream
Good stuff indeed! WTG Jiseed with your new WR of 57m18s with insane glitches and an awesome commentary to boot!!
http://www.twitch.tv/jiseed/c/6900462
http://www.twitch.tv/jiseed/c/6900462