OoT [N64] Segmented [Suspended]

okiyama

2006-06-23 09:43:59 pm

The original leever.

and instead of back flipping onto the rupee fence he climbed onto it.

That was a terrible TAS!

mwl

Edit history:

mwl: 2006-06-23 10:15:25 pm

2006-06-23 09:45:40 pm

The TAS was redone from Gohma, so everything before the boss battle remains unoptimised.

Blame the inefficiencies on the lack of any feedback when Guano released his first WIPs. TASvideos board is this way. TASes aren't for everyone, but if you have any bit of interest, it's about time to join and start offering your constructive criticism, before it's too late.

Keep in mind that TASes are not like segmented runs. While TSA and Yautja can redo any of their respective segments as long as their inventory stats remain consistent, there is no known method to correct an earlier mistake in an N64 TAS without having to redo everything from that point onwards.

The OoT discussion over there is currently infested with newbs. There are at least 7-8 regulars here per the page 1 credits, so why is it that none of you guys except AKA and Yautja are ever there? (Though I do have to give credit to Acryte for his 2-3 appearances in the past two months.)

Guano has said that he is willing to redo anything that clearly isn't optimized, providing that the mistake isn't so far back that he'd have to redo practically the entire run to correct it. If you provide the feedback, he will improve his run. So please, either provide the criticism he needs or don't bitch about how the TAS sucks when an .avi update is released to the public.

Anyway, enough discussion on this. I think that you guys should reconsider what you said, though.

The TAS was redone from Gohma, so everything before the boss battle remains unoptimised.

Blame the inefficiencies on the lack of any feedback when Guano released his first WIPs. TASvideos board is [url=http://bisqwit.iki.fi/nesvideos/forum/viewforum.php?f=23&sid=500eb33f2bdca2e807f0cc4b13b5900d]this way[/url]. TASes aren't for everyone, but if you have any bit of interest, it's about time to join and start offering your constructive criticism, before it's too late.

Keep in mind that TASes are not like segmented runs. While TSA and Yautja can redo any of their respective segments as long as their inventory stats remain consistent, [i]there is no known method to correct an earlier mistake in an N64 TAS without having to redo everything from that point onwards.[/i]

The OoT discussion over there is currently infested with newbs. There are at least 7-8 regulars here per the page 1 credits, so why is it that none of you guys except AKA and Yautja are ever there? (Though I do have to give credit to Acryte for his 2-3 appearances in the past two months.)

Guano has said that he is willing to redo anything that clearly isn't optimized, providing that the mistake isn't so far back that he'd have to redo practically the entire run to correct it. If you provide the feedback, he will improve his run. So please, either provide the criticism he needs or don't bitch about how the TAS sucks when an .avi update is released to the public.

Anyway, enough discussion on this. I think that you guys should reconsider what you said, though.

Manocheese

2006-06-23 10:05:25 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Well, I must say that everything from Gerudo Valley onwards was rather well-done.

pyh189

2006-06-23 11:35:08 pm

well you could always tell guano to check this thread if you havn't already

DK64_MASTER

2006-06-24 12:40:34 am

Quote:

well you could always tell guano to check this thread if you havn't already

I don't think he'd be bothered to check all 42 pages, considering the amount of work he's done.

It's easier if you guys watch his WIP, and then comment on what he did right/wrong/ or improvements. Don't be lazy ;).

Besides, we don't want to mix too much TAS and Speedrun discussion in this thread. It's better if they diverge. And yes, I'm well aware we are discussing TAS right now. Wink

TSA

Edit history:

TSA: 2006-06-24 02:22:23 am

2006-06-24 01:34:57 am

Retired

New Segment 2 done.

Only two things I saw: alignment on sidehop to blue rupee at end of boulder was back a step, so I had to use a forward step. Missed a slash on Deku Baba.

That's it.

Compressing/uploading.

Uploading:

Time till Shield: 00:02:05;21 (So 2:06 really)

Manocheese

2006-06-24 06:53:42 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Well done! I think this is fast enough. However, if you want to redo it, here are some points of focus:

The positioning in the boulder area; you lose a little more than a second from not sidehopping far enough before the chest and from sidehopping too far after that blue rupee.

You also lose a bit of time exiting the boulder area.

You could use my little trick to swordslash without taking out your sword for that block, but again, this is negligible.

I'm pretty sure you didn't miss a slash on the Deku Baba.

Well, anyway, I understand if you want the "wow" factor for the very first segment (second, but whatever), so you should improve this as much as you like, but remember that it's never going to be perfect.

TSA

Edit history:

TSA: 2006-06-24 10:43:42 am

2006-06-24 10:43:31 am

Retired

Yeah, it could have been 2:04, and then if I get uber lucky with rupees...I see 2:01.

But this time I had no visible mistakes to the average watched. So I am pleased with this segment.

Tomorrow - GDT Segment 3. Goal is to get block-jump slash, roll to door, better Deku Scrub room, better alignment for jump slash to switch below, and better 2-3-1 Deku Scrub room. Target time: sub 5 mins.

YautjaElder

2006-06-24 01:24:30 pm

Speed is the key.

Good segment 2, TSA. New record, too.

One thing I'm curious about; How do you do the door text skip (Deku Tree) so easily? I can only do it about 20% of the time, and it's very frustrating since I have to pull it of twice in my run.

It's the only thing stopping me in the Deku Tree, seriously.

Manocheese

2006-06-24 06:37:08 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote:

One thing I'm curious about; How do you do the door text skip (Deku Tree) so easily? I can only do it about 20% of the time, and it's very frustrating since I have to pull it of twice in my run.

It's the only thing stopping me in the Deku Tree, seriously.

I agree... I've only done it a couple times. Do you just mash A? Or does positioning matter?

FIERCELINKMASTER

2006-06-24 06:41:11 pm

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Quote:

I agree... I've only done it a couple times. Do you just mash A? Or does positioning matter?

Positoning is the key. It gets easy after you do it a couple of times.

Jacob91

2006-06-24 08:35:08 pm

I have a question.

Will your previous 4:57 run be archived anywhere?

I thought that it was pretty neat seeing some of the things done in that run that obviously wont be shown in this one.

btw, I have never completely beaten OOT, I've put it off for years...
Now that i can't undergo strenous activity for a week because I just got my tonsils taken out it is probably the perfect time to get it done once and for all.

FIERCELINKMASTER

2006-06-24 08:38:53 pm

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Quote:

I have a question.
Will your previous 4:57 run be archived anywhere?

http://www.archive.org/details/ZeldaOoT_SS_457

MissileWaster

Edit history:

MissileWaster: 2006-06-24 08:40:45 pm

2006-06-24 08:40:17 pm

Quote:

I have a question.

Will your previous 4:57 run be archived anywhere?

I thought that it was pretty neat seeing some of the things done in that run that obviously wont be shown in this one.

btw, I have never completely beaten OOT, I've put it off for years...
Now that i can't undergo strenous activity for a week because I just got my tonsils taken out it is probably the perfect time to get it done once and for all.

The 4:57 isn't going to get replaced by this one and will stay on archive.org anyway. The 4:57 wont get replaced by this one because this run is segmented. If an SS comes along, it will still be available on archive.org.

TSA

2006-06-24 08:52:31 pm

Retired

The 4:57 would only be replaced by Kazooie's run, should he do it, since he is doing a non-major glitch run.

Okay, the Text Skip in the Deku Tree.

It has nothing to do with positioning honestly, I've pulled it off being on the left of the door, on the right of the door, or in the middle. (Yes, I've walked partially through the wall once doing it).

It is about speed. The moment you sidehop, you need to thrust the stick Up and button mash A. I mean, I hurt myself doing it - it's a very physical part. If you are a fast tapper, now is the time to show it off.

If you messed up, you either were not press up (maybe a bit diagonally), or you did not press A fast enough.

Did you also know on the way out of the Deku Room, it you don't hold forward and roll, the text triggers there? I had that happen 2-3 times because I forgot to be moving.

YautjaElder

2006-06-24 09:01:07 pm

Speed is the key.

Quote:

It is about speed. The moment you sidehop, you need to thrust the stick Up and button mash A. I mean, I hurt myself doing it - it's a very physical part. If you are a fast tapper, now is the time to show it off.

If you messed up, you either were not press up (maybe a bit diagonally), or you did not press A fast enough.

Saw my Mido dialouge in my latest segment 2? That comes from button mashing. 8)

What I probably did wrong was that I tried to time pressing the A button exactly when Link landed after sidehop... figure that, hehe.

Quote:

Did you also know on the way out of the Deku Room, it you don't hold forward and roll, the text triggers there? I had that happen 2-3 times because I forgot to be moving.

That doesn't really have to do with your movement... you have to be pressing against the door, if you stand 1 cm away from it when you open it, Link wont walk as far as if you stood pressed against the door.

Manocheese

2006-06-24 09:09:34 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote:

Okay, the Text Skip in the Deku Tree.

It has nothing to do with positioning honestly, I've pulled it off being on the left of the door, on the right of the door, or in the middle. (Yes, I've walked partially through the wall once doing it).

It is about speed. The moment you sidehop, you need to thrust the stick Up and button mash A. I mean, I hurt myself doing it - it's a very physical part. If you are a fast tapper, now is the time to show it off.

If you messed up, you either were not press up (maybe a bit diagonally), or you did not press A fast enough.

Did you also know on the way out of the Deku Room, it you don't hold forward and roll, the text triggers there? I had that happen 2-3 times because I forgot to be moving.

So, it's basically just button mashing and holding forward? Okay, thanks. Also, I think that being on the right side of the door helps when you are exiting.

AKA

2006-06-24 09:55:56 pm

He's back!

Holding up+analougue is not the most important part of the door skip, you need to land so the icon says open and hit A on the exact frame, which should be done about 90% of the time if you are a reasonable button basher unlike me. I can still get it 80-85% of the time. The block skip is what I find the hardest because I don't always get the timing and line correct. Plus you never always get the right angle i.e. with the camera in the position of the skulltula which makes it easier to jump on the ledge. The ideal jump off the block is when Link falls of thwe block and grabs the ledge. I've tried to jump and jumpslash from the block (without a skulltula bosst) but its never worked.

RedMage

2006-06-24 10:13:16 pm

Actually, even if Kazooie does his run, the 4:57 won't be replaced, as Kazooie is using the PAL version, unless I'm mistaken.

Manocheese

2006-06-25 01:04:39 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Here is a mirror of the improved TAS by GuanoBowl:

http://files.filefront.com/WIP20060617Seg1avi/;5185925;;/fileinfo.html

Chaos_Controller

2006-06-25 03:04:14 am

I love Zelda!

I thought I needed to add this. Last night I had a dream that all of the major players in this thread and I were going though the Shadow Temple together practicing the tricks and figuring out the fastest way to do things. I'd just like to say that the hover boost across the gap after the ship is a hell of a lot scarier when you (not Link) are the one who's doing the boost (don't look down!). Anyway, if that isn't the definition of obssession with this run, then I don't know what is....

FIERCELINKMASTER

Edit history:

FIERCELINKMASTER: 2006-06-25 03:15:53 am

2006-06-25 03:14:43 am

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Quote:

I thought I needed to add this. Last night I had a dream that all of the major players in this thread and I were going though the Shadow Temple together practicing the tricks and figuring out the fastest way to do things. I'd just like to say that the hover boost across the gap after the ship is a hell of a lot scarier when you (not Link) are the one who's doing the boost (don't look down!). Anyway, if that isn't the definition of obssession with this run, then I don't know what is....

You're not the only one who has had dreams about speedruns. Most of the time they make no sense at all. Tongue

TSA

2006-06-25 05:01:22 am

Retired

I get the block skip 100% percent of the time, it's the jumping off that is 50% or so for me (and I mean just jumping without altering angle or view point).

The hardest part for me right now is landing on the switch and the jump slash torch. Everything else is becoming much easier.

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-06-25 08:13:39 am

2006-06-25 08:13:21 am

Speed is the key.

Quote:

I get the block skip 100% percent of the time, it's the jumping off that is 50% or so for me (and I mean just jumping without altering angle or view point).

The hardest part for me right now is landing on the switch and the jump slash torch. Everything else is becoming much easier.

I can do the block skip probably 50% of the time (which is enough), but I can do the jump afterwards (without readjusting) 90% of the time. Sometimes I even jump and get boosted to the ledge by the skulltula, but that's not something I can recommend, you lose another half a heart.

When I'm doing the torch jumpslash, I'll push the block once, then do it. Much easier then.

KD

2006-06-25 06:12:05 pm

Jealousy™

Quote:

I get the block skip 100% percent of the time, it's the jumping off that is 50% or so for me (and I mean just jumping without altering angle or view point).

The hardest part for me right now is landing on the switch and the jump slash torch. Everything else is becoming much easier.

Good.