OoT [N64] Segmented [Suspended]

AKA

Edit history:

AKA: 2006-06-01 12:34:48 pm

2006-06-01 09:57:34 am

He's back!

Quote:

No segment 2 tonight. I got like 2:11 in the time frame AKA was speaking of. But I keep messing up something...I'll get it eventually. This is probably one the harder segments because of all the damn timing and precision moving.

Thats what I can't seem to beat but I didn't know about Acryte's tactic for the boulder area. Just take <2:10 ,
this is the main reason why I took so many attempts at my 4:40 because I had 10's of restarts in the ruppee area and deku tree. Yes, ruppee run is definitley in the top 5 maybe 3 of difficult areas to do and is just as hard as pulling off a complex trick maybe harder. I would also strongly argue that the deku tree is the hardest dungeon to speedrun in the game. I don't know what your gonna do for Daytime/Nightime stuff because the TAS couldn't make it to the drawbridge and castle grounds by nightfall and thats considering that the bean is being skipped, I remember looking for a way to get the sun song without lullaby but I gave up after about an hour of trying. I do in all seriousness think your screwed for getting into the castle by nightfall.

Edit: I know this'll be overlooked, but I would strongly urge TSA to do Hyrule castle first and then head to Spirt, because the TAS couldn't make it to the Market before nightfall once Spirit was complete, and is struglling to make it after Jabu was complete.

[quote]

No segment 2 tonight.  I got like 2:11 in the time frame AKA was speaking of.  But I keep messing up something...I'll get it eventually.  This is probably one the harder segments because of all the damn timing and precision moving.[/quote]

Thats what I can't seem to beat but I didn't know about Acryte's tactic for the boulder area. Just take <2:10 , 
this is the main reason why I took so many attempts at my 4:40 because I had 10's of restarts in the ruppee area and deku tree. Yes, ruppee run is definitley in the top 5 maybe 3 of difficult areas to do and is just as hard as pulling off a complex trick maybe harder. I would also strongly argue that the deku tree is the hardest dungeon to speedrun in the game. I don't know what your gonna do for Daytime/Nightime stuff because the TAS couldn't make it to the drawbridge and castle grounds by nightfall and thats considering that the bean is being skipped, I remember looking for a way to get the sun song without lullaby but I gave up after about an hour of trying. I do in all seriousness think your screwed for getting into the castle by nightfall.

Edit: I know this'll be overlooked, but I would strongly urge TSA to do Hyrule castle first and then head to Spirt, because the TAS couldn't make it to the Market before nightfall once Spirit was complete, and is struglling to make it  after Jabu was complete.

Dacicus

2006-06-01 01:59:08 pm

Quote:

We should all just get really steaming mad at Dacicus for forgetting to add a disclaimer. Boy, that Dacicus is going to get a whoopin'.

I'm really sorry about the trouble. The intention of the AVI was simply to let the people at NESVideos who were having desync trouble see the WIP, and no one else seemed to be ready to make an AVI.

Quote:

The sound was a little behind, though...

It isn't in my Jabu-Jabu vid, at least not in VLC.

My fault again. I know practically nothing about how the encoding process works, so I don't know how to fix that. I'll stop with the video making now.

YautjaElder

2006-06-01 02:05:14 pm

Speed is the key.

Sorry, but I wont upload an .avi of the Jabu-Jabu part. Not unless someone is prepared to download a 6 minute video with a size of 155 MB. >_>

When recording the .avi, I used the H.264 codec and you can't open videos encoded with that in VirtualDub. Sad

Dacicus

2006-06-01 02:09:22 pm

You didn't run it through mencoder or anything like that? That's when the sound went all weird in mine. The original was 735 MiB and the sound wasn't behind.

YautjaElder

2006-06-01 02:14:26 pm

Speed is the key.

Quote:

You didn't run it through mencoder or anything like that?

Umm... no I didn't. I'm gonna try that...

Acryte

2006-06-01 03:49:29 pm

Zelda Scientist®

lol ill dl anyway Cheesy

can i get a link yautja?

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-06-01 04:16:55 pm

2006-06-01 04:16:22 pm

Speed is the key.

Haven't you watched the wip (on Mupen), Acryte?

Sure, I could upload it tonight... Wink

Acryte

2006-06-01 04:35:58 pm

Zelda Scientist®

only up til gauntlets

AKA

2006-06-01 04:46:04 pm

He's back!

Check your video settings match the movie. When you go to play movie it shows the settings of the input file, you must make sure the Mupen you have matches up with it.

Gorash

2006-06-01 06:27:00 pm

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Yautja:
Without whining over at bisqwits, the movie seems to desync for quite a lot of people for no good reason.

For me it first desynced a gerudo valley, where Link would read a shield, now it desyncs a Lake Hylia after getting the bottle (A turn to the right is missing and Link dives at the wrong spot). Even if everything after Jabu is being redone, I'd like to see what he did so far.

YautjaElder

2006-06-01 06:30:46 pm

Speed is the key.

Quote:

Yautja:
Without whining over at bisqwits, the movie seems to desync for quite a lot of people for no good reason.

For me it first desynced a gerudo valley, where Link would read a shield, now it desyncs a Lake Hylia after getting the bottle (A turn to the right is missing and Link dives at the wrong spot). Even if everything after Jabu is being redone, I'd like to see what he did so far.

It always desyncs for me after the owl outside Spirit. He provided a save-state at the beginning of Jabu-Jabu, so I used that to record it. I've changed my mind- I'll upload it to FileFront tonight (no matter the filesize). Wink

TSA

Edit history:

TSA: 2006-06-01 09:20:39 pm

2006-06-01 06:54:24 pm

Retired

For Segment 2 - since I was too embarrassed to upload a failed attempt, I'll describe what I am doing:

I start in Link's house and I have to toggle to overhead view and then move a but out of the way of the center table and roll out.

I backflip after Saria speaks and backwalk for six quick seconds. I Z-target right and roll to get the two green rupees in one movement. I then roll to the edge of the ramp, halfway down, and climb up. I hold Z as I do this. I then Z-target right and backwalk until I visuall see the fence. I then backflip over all three fences getting the blue and green rupees. I then Z-target behind me and run to a bit to the right of the hole (weird angle) and press A.

As I exit, I tap up and then hit Z and back and A to backflip, holding Z. I sidehop twice right, and backwalk on a quick 3 second count. I sidehop left once, then side hop right 5 times and backwalk to the chest and quick-turn an press A after (I backflip over the chest if I button mash A).

After I get the sword, I tap up and hold Z and backwalk for a quick seven second count. This is the part I mess up on usually first. I then side hop right nine times and get the blue rupee, and side hop back left twice. However, if you are not far enough up, aka behind the bush with the blue rupee, I will grab the damn thing and lose 3-4 seconds.

After sidehopping back twice, I turn around and hold DOWN an the camera angle turns with me and this is just "guess" work to get to the hole and press A to get in it without trouble (but I'm pretty good at it).

In the tunnel, I equip the sword. When I get out, I tap up and then hold Z and back and I back flip 3 times to get the green rupee. I have 21 rupees now. On the third backflip, I do a quick spin and slash 3 bushes. 4 rupees better come out, but sometimes I will slash a fourth bush if I have 24.

I then run to the sign and slash it at an angle so I get the blue rupee immediately. I then quick turn to try to align at a sligh angle towards the river or exactly straight (180 degrees facing away from the fence) and backflip 3 times, then backwalk for a quick 3 second count.

I turn and run over the 3 platforms and get the bluee rupee. I quick turn abotu 45 degrees and sidehop. I've almost made it into the shop without text, I was like a millimeter away from the boundary...I believe it is totally possible to skip the text on a TAS.

Inside the shop, I run behind the counter, get the last blue rupee. As soon as I am visible, I button mash A towards the counter front so Link rolls and triggers the text. Hit A once, tap right once, button mash A till shield is bought. Then button mash B and equip shield in shop. Roll out.

Outside, I roll to edge and then sidehop over river to mido. Side hop 3 times to the right then turn and press A. After text, I roll to Deku Babas (aligning at that angle with Mido takes too much time for a human, it's pure luck if it you get it right.

I kill the Deku Baba to the right first, then left. As I kill the left one, I move to where the Deku Stick will be. I then quick roll back to the other one, then roll to the last baba, slash it, and continue rolling towards the deku tree at an angle after a half second delay to let the deku stick appear.

After text, I backwalk to Deku Tree.

Key areas for mistakes:
1) After sword, sidehopping to blue rupee.
2) After exiting the boulder area, getting 4 rupees from bushes.
3) After blue rupee from sign, backflipping and walking to platforms.
4) After speaking with Mido, moving to the Deku Babas quickly, killing them perfectly and making it to Deku Tree.

Areas 1/3 give me the most trouble.

My times range from 2:11-2:21 from moment Link is out of bed till shield over head on these failed attempts.

For Segment 2 - since I was too embarrassed to upload a failed attempt, I'll describe what I am doing:

I start in Link's house and I have to toggle to overhead view and then move a but out of the way of the center table and roll out.

I backflip after Saria speaks and backwalk for six quick seconds.  I Z-target right and roll to get the two green rupees in one movement.  I then roll to the edge of the ramp, halfway down, and climb up.  I hold Z as I do this.  I then Z-target right and backwalk until I visuall see the fence.  I then backflip over all three fences getting the blue and green rupees.  I then Z-target behind me and run to a bit to the right of the hole (weird angle) and press A.

As I exit, I tap up and then hit Z and back and A to backflip, holding Z. I sidehop twice right, and backwalk on a quick 3 second count.  I sidehop left once, then side hop right 5 times and backwalk to the chest and quick-turn an press A after (I backflip over the chest if I button mash A).

After I get the sword, I tap up and hold Z and backwalk for a quick seven second count.  This is the part I mess up on usually first.  I then side hop right nine times and get the blue rupee, and side hop back left twice.  However, if you are not far enough up, aka behind the bush with the blue rupee, I will grab the damn thing and lose 3-4 seconds.

After sidehopping back twice, I turn around and hold DOWN an the camera angle turns with me and this is just "guess" work to get to the hole and press A to get in it without trouble (but I'm pretty good at it).

In the tunnel, I equip the sword.  When I get out, I tap up and then hold Z and back and I back flip 3 times to get the green rupee.  I have 21 rupees now.  On the third backflip, I do a quick spin and slash 3 bushes.  4 rupees better come out, but sometimes I will slash a fourth bush if I have 24.

I then run to the sign and slash it at an angle so I get the blue rupee immediately.  I then quick turn to try to align at a sligh angle towards the river or exactly straight (180 degrees facing away from the fence) and backflip 3 times, then backwalk for a quick 3 second count.

I turn and run over the 3 platforms and get the bluee rupee.  I quick turn abotu 45 degrees and sidehop.  I've almost made it into the shop without text, I was like a millimeter away from the boundary...I believe it is totally possible to skip the text on a TAS.

Inside the shop, I run behind the counter, get the last blue rupee.  As soon as I am visible, I button mash A towards the counter front so Link rolls and triggers the text.  Hit A once, tap right once, button mash A till shield is bought.  Then button mash B and equip shield in shop.  Roll out.

Outside, I roll to edge and then sidehop over river to mido.  Side hop 3 times to the right then turn and press A.  After text, I roll to Deku Babas (aligning at that angle with Mido takes too much time for a human, it's pure luck if it you get it right.

I kill the Deku Baba to the right first, then left.  As I kill the left one, I move to where the Deku Stick will be.  I  then quick roll back to the other one, then roll to the last baba, slash it, and continue rolling towards the deku tree at an angle after a half second delay to let the deku stick appear.

After text, I backwalk to Deku Tree.

Key areas for mistakes:
1) After sword, sidehopping to blue rupee.
2) After exiting the boulder area, getting 4 rupees from bushes.
3) After blue rupee from sign, backflipping and walking to platforms.
4) After speaking with Mido, moving to the Deku Babas quickly, killing them perfectly and making it to Deku Tree.

Areas 1/3 give me the most trouble.

My times range from 2:11-2:21 from moment Link is out of bed till shield over head on these failed attempts.

Mad_Andy

2006-06-01 07:04:29 pm

I didn't know jabu-jabu was in the kokiri forest Shocked

(sorry, couldn't resist Tongue

)

Sounds great.

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-06-01 07:14:06 pm

2006-06-01 07:13:31 pm

Speed is the key.

Quote:

However, if you are not far enough up, aka behind the bush with the blue rupee, I will grab the damn thing and lose 3-4 seconds.

Have you considered equippping the sword right after you get it and then slashing the bush (eliminating all chances off grabbing it)?

The Jabu-Jabu vid will be up in 40 mins.

TSA

2006-06-01 07:43:41 pm

Retired

Won't do any good. I need to be tapping "A", and the A button behind the bush will trigger the "grab" motion. I'd have to "stop", "slash", "move forward", then resume side hopping.

It's unneccessary. I will get this, have patience.

BTW, update my route.

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-06-03 07:09:25 pm

2006-06-01 08:03:12 pm

Speed is the key.

Quote:

It's unneccessary. I will get this, have patience.

Sure you will, take your time.

Anyway, here is the TAS of Jabu-Jabu: http://files.filefront.com/GuanoBowl_TAS_WIP_Jabuavi/;5102652;;/fileinfo.html

This is a TOOL-ASSISTED speedrun made by GuanoBowl. He uses an emulator with slowdown and save states to create "perfect" gameplay. Some of the tricks are impossible to pull of on a console. For more information about tool-assisted speedruns, visit http://tasvideos.org/WhyAndHow.html

Again, sorry about the bizarre filesize. Maybe someone else can compress it and re-upload it.

Enjoy the bombchu boost in this one... I believe that it's the first "TAS only-trick" so far. Sure, it's possible to to the same thing on a console, but not exactly the way he does it. Tongue

AKA

2006-06-01 10:22:47 pm

He's back!

It is just me or is anyone else experiencing exeptionally low download rates off FF. My guess is that there is a lot of people downloading Guano's run all at once. FF told me I'd have to wait 44 hours until I finsh downloading it, that I don't really have a problem with, but why is it that I can't select what server I want to download from, as it would enable me to experiment to see which would would give me the best download rate. TSA from what your saying I can work out where time will be lost, all I can say is do pretty much what I do except for the boulder area, you could also sidehop of the balcony as well and continue that up the incline. I was wondering where can I dowload the original input file because I can't find it in the main topic (Nes Forum I mean), his run only goes up the pre boost in Jabu all the rest since then were savestates.

Manocheese

2006-06-02 12:01:50 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Meh, I think the FileFront changes are for the better. It automatically picks the fastest server.

Wheels

2006-06-02 12:26:57 am

I'm the keeper of Time.

That TAS run was impressive. TAS runners are planning to beat this in 2:30? I think they can do it! And best of luck with the sub-3 run, TSA, looking forward to it.

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-06-02 03:42:37 am

2006-06-02 03:40:08 am

Zelda Scientist®

"It is just me or is anyone else experiencing exeptionally low download rates off FF"
lol, idk Im getting 493kb/s and on average, about 300-400 for dls. But i don't like the extra links to get there, and the temporary (and routine) down time for maintenence that seems to happen like every 2 weeks. Anyways, we've all been over this 1000 times so, bleh. We all know where we stand 8).
Thanks for the upload yauty.

mwl

Edit history:

mwl: 2006-06-02 05:20:39 am

2006-06-02 05:18:20 am

Glad you guys are enjoying the TAS. I've been hard at work advising Guano over the past few weeks along with AKA, Yautja, Acryte, and a few others...I'd encourage anyone with sufficient knowledge to join in.

Comments about the route:
Two key concerns which have already been brought up are the poe boost and bombchu bowling. Needless to say, these tricks should not be attempted in a console run. So this means restocking from the well. You'll want to do this earlier than right before the Ganondorf/OoT cutscene, or you'll have to nail every bombchu. Alternatively, you can collect the bomb bag in Dodongo's Cavern -- I think this was AKA's recommendation. Another issue is getting into Hyrule Castle -- you want to be outside the gates before noon so that you can get in the courtyard before nightfall. This was a problem encountered in the TAS. I'd say that going straight there after the forest is the most surefire way -- for any other you'll have to experiment around and see what kind of arrangements work best. With these differences aside, I'm pretty sure the rest can be followed from the TAS route I posted.

Glad you guys are enjoying the TAS. I've been hard at work advising Guano over the past few weeks along with AKA, Yautja, Acryte, and a few others...I'd encourage anyone with sufficient knowledge to join in.

[b]Comments about the route:[/b]
Two key concerns which have already been brought up are the poe boost and bombchu bowling. Needless to say, these tricks should not be attempted in a console run. So this means restocking from the well. You'll want to do this earlier than right before the Ganondorf/OoT cutscene, or  you'll have to nail every bombchu. Alternatively, you can collect the bomb bag in Dodongo's Cavern -- I think this was AKA's recommendation. Another issue is getting into Hyrule Castle -- you want to be outside the gates before noon so that you can get in the courtyard before nightfall. This was a problem encountered in the TAS. I'd say that going straight there after the forest is the most surefire way -- for any other you'll have to experiment around and see what kind of arrangements work best. With these differences aside, I'm pretty sure the rest can be followed from the TAS route I posted.

TSA

Edit history:

TSA: 2006-06-02 06:03:09 am

2006-06-02 06:02:52 am

Retired

I counted up the Bombchus. Since this is segmented, I can retry so I never waste one. I should be fine until I get the refill in the well.

I don't use the Poe Boost. I buy beans and plant them.

I already recognized the night/day issue. You have to also remember I will be slower than the TAS, so it will probably work to my advantage - they said they were getting to the gate too early (night time).

YautjaElder

2006-06-02 07:25:08 am

Speed is the key.

Quote:

It is just me or is anyone else experiencing exeptionally low download rates off FF. My guess is that there is a lot of people downloading Guano's run all at once.

Yeah, I've already got 65 dl's. Roll Eyes

AKA

Edit history:

AKA: 2006-06-02 08:43:16 am

2006-06-02 08:42:54 am

He's back!

I'm dowloading it just now I was getting 880 bytes, but now I'm getting 110/kbs. Its really annoying how you never seem to reach the download and upload speeds you would except, the best I've ever had is 950/kbs and the best I've experienced on any computer is 9.98/Mbs when I was downloading open office. I hope you know what your doing in the long run TSA, just go for to <2:10 or gain control inside the deku tree in <4:10 my best is 4:12., so it gives something to go by.

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-06-02 12:13:36 pm

2006-06-02 09:12:24 am

Speed is the key.

What about saving inside the Deku Tree? You wont have to worry about messing up if you get the rupee collecting perfect. I think it's a good idea.

Edit: Nevermind, I checked your route.

Quote:

1. *Get 20 rupees (I was gonna get 4 blue rupees...is there a faster way to get 20 rupees before the pond?)

You get 3 red rupees when you kill the Anubis in child Spirit, that should cover everything...

Quote:

4. Enter Temple of Time
5. Save/Quit

Errr, you don't restart in ToT if you save there as a kid, you restart in Kokiri Forest.

Quote:

4. Cucco Dive to bottom of Well
5. Bombchus

You can't get the bombchus from the well as an adult.

Quote:

3. Enter Ganon's Tower
4. Glitch past barrier
5. Save/Quit

~~You should save before you do the glitch and do it in the start of the next segment, otherwise you'll have to do it twice for no reason. :X~~

Other than that, your route looks good. Wink