OoT [N64] Segmented [Suspended]

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-07-16 07:48:03 am

2006-07-16 07:33:54 am

Zelda Scientist®

cool, I thought it saved time since it was suggested by AKA for a bit. Yeah silver as adult sounds like theplan then.

Wait, we lose even more time in dodongo's w/out the gauntlets... will we save time over adult gauntlets? Especially since we need to do the trick?

If we save them for adult then we have just enough bombchus to get bombs since we use extra... we need 3 to get in the cavern (no gauntlet) and then we need another 1 to blow that door since we can't use the groundboost skip.

snorlax

2006-07-16 07:38:33 am

zzzzzzzzzz

Quote:

cool, I thought it saved time since it was suggested by AKA for a bit. Yeah silver as adult sounds like theplan then.

There's no easy way to skip the one puzzle in the Forest Temple that requires the Gauntlets?

DK64_MASTER

2006-07-16 07:41:56 am

Quote:

There's no easy way to skip the one puzzle in the
Forest Temple that requires the Gauntlets?

Err. Won't we do the Forest temple after even the Shadow Temple? Why not go do spirit as an adult before forest?

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-07-16 10:59:33 am

2006-07-16 07:50:27 am

Zelda Scientist®

We don't have enough bombs to do the skip to bomb bga without gauntlets... so it might be faster to get them since we get the groundboost and also save time in the skip to bomb bag. We are 2 short.

realize w/ no gauntlet you have to fight 2 lizalfos battles, and take the full route through the dungeon.
you can do kid spirit in about 3:41 from bombchu to SG.

lest we do kakariko bombchu too.

Here is the difference in time... the time it takes to go from bombchu to gauntlets minus the 3:45 - the time it takes to use the groundjump and the early bomb bag. that is the formula timewise.

snorlax

Edit history:

snorlax: 2006-07-16 08:05:09 am

2006-07-16 07:54:01 am

zzzzzzzzzz

Quote:

Err. Won't we do the Forest temple after even the Shadow Temple? Why not go do spirit as an adult before forest?

It depends on if it is faster to get to the Gauntlets chest and back as an adult than to skip the puzzle in the Forest Temple if possible, not too mention any adjustments to the route that may possibly have to be made.

Acryte: It supposedly takes 3:45 to get the Silver Gauntlets after getting the bombchus according to mwl; would that much time be wasted elsewhere from not having the Gauntlets? Another side question: if you get the Silver Gauntlets as an adult, does the cutscene play then? I thought someone determined that it did, but I don't remember.

I guess it might be possible to do the Gauntlets skip as a child, but it might require getting extra bombchus even before Dodongo's, and it's not going to save as much time as I originally thought anyway. It'll require some calculations here to figure out which of the three or so ways is fastest.

DK64_MASTER

Edit history:

DK64_MASTER: 2006-07-16 08:02:39 am

2006-07-16 08:02:11 am

Quote:

Another side question: if you get the Silver Gauntlets as an adult, does the cutscene play then? I thought someone determined that it did, but I don't remember.

ROFL, wouldn't it be hillarious if you could somehow see Nabooru become a sage (after beating adult spirit) and then, after getting the gauntlets, being captured by a supposedly alive Koume and Kotake.

mwl

2006-07-16 08:12:00 am

The kidnapping scene plays regardless of Link's age. This was confirmed a while ago.

UchihaSasuke

2006-07-16 08:24:22 am

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

here's the vid for those who would like to see the cutscene as adult link:

vid

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-07-16 09:34:55 am

2006-07-16 09:25:02 am

Zelda Scientist®

King Zora Skip

Well counting to six makes this trick way easy. It has the perfect pacing and is better than counting to five because you say the numbers at a normal speed. just 123456 and on six do the backflip.

We savewarp back.

petrie911

2006-07-16 09:34:32 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

That's just awesome...

But is there any way to get back through afterwards? Or do you have to savewarp?

mwl

Edit history:

mwl: 2006-07-16 10:00:54 am

2006-07-16 10:00:36 am

Quote:

MWL - those bomb glitches take time and that means they take too long to warrant not getting gauntlets, especially if time is saved using ganon early for the golden gauntlets.

Are you sure? SG takes 3'45". Per my previous analysis, GG shouldn't be too far off.

Quote:

4. Find a way to access the second floor in Forest without block-pushing. If this and (3) are both pulled off, the Gauntlets can be skipped entirely.

Block-pushing takes quite a while, too. I'd say 6-8 bombs should do it for each of the two climbs...that should total to about a minute. That's still less time than getting a strength upgrade. Aren't those blocks the only things keeping us from skipping the Gauntlets entirely right now?

Quote:

3. Find a way to kill off King Dodongo without the Gauntlets. 'Nuff said.

Never mind this. If we're getting the bomb bag, we won't have to bother with the flowers on this one.

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-07-16 11:05:43 am

2006-07-16 10:07:10 am

Zelda Scientist®

so you have a minute at each of the blocks, then you have what a minute and a half from no groundboost and another minute from no early bombbag right? the time you gain is time you lose I think, though it seemed like forest w/ the boosts was lost time because you'll need to collect bombs somewhere on the way and you'll need to bust out whay 8 bombs for 5 or so seconds a piece 2 times that is... a minute 40 or so of perfection... then again if you don't lose time there and it's faster, then we only need time the parts in dodongo's and compare that time to the other.

Okay about 2:10 or so lost from no ground jump.
and about 1:00 lost from having to go through that other stuff till bomb bag. How much time does it take to go from mirror to SG and back? or are we using the beanplant and then going to sg and then going to the opposite hand?

yeah GG probably does take longer I assumed it didn't since AKA told me that you save time.

TSA - true true. the thing I was saying about skipping gauntlets is that you don't ge tthe option to do the early bomb bag because you don't have enough bombchus. so that is time lost enroute (you don't have bombs yet ) plus if you have them you get the groundjump to the switch. Basically it's the Adult dodongo's path as a kid vs gauntlets as adult and not having those other 2 options. it needs to be timed.

so you have a minute at each of the blocks, then you have what a minute and a half from no groundboost and another minute from no early bombbag right? the time you gain is time you lose I think, though it seemed like forest w/ the boosts was lost time because you'll need to collect bombs somewhere on the way and you'll need to bust out whay 8 bombs for 5 or so seconds a piece 2 times that is... a minute 40 or so of perfection... then again if you don't lose time there and it's faster, then we only need time the parts in dodongo's and compare that time to the other.

Okay about 2:10 or so lost from no ground jump.
and about 1:00 lost from having to go through that other stuff till bomb bag. How much time does it take to go from mirror to SG and back? or are we using the beanplant and then going to sg and then going to the opposite hand?

yeah GG probably does take longer I assumed it didn't since AKA told me that you save time.

TSA - true true. the thing I was saying about skipping gauntlets is that you don't ge tthe option to do the early bomb bag because you don't have enough bombchus. so that is time lost enroute (you don't have bombs yet ) plus if you have them you get the groundjump to the switch. Basically it's the Adult dodongo's path as a kid vs gauntlets as adult and not having those other 2 options. it needs to be timed.

TSA

2006-07-16 10:07:35 am

Retired

May I remind everyone it is very easy to replenish bombs...so if we're running into a bomb count issue, find a spot we can reload - all options are bound to be faster than getting more bombchus.

Phallosvogel

2006-07-16 10:22:29 am

Q: are we even able to get the bomb-bag w/out gauntlets/bracelet?
I thought you have to own one of these things, otherwise therell be only rupees inside the bombbag box
but more likely im just mixing things up Grin

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-07-16 02:02:00 pm

2006-07-16 11:16:31 am

Zelda Scientist®

Okay, Let's put the Kibosh on this:
there is no need to time this out. let's use the ground jump w/out having the gauntlets. That tips the scale greatly. use the baby dodongos and then store a groundjump off the jar. Then go use it to get to the switch and skip the lizalfos battle. Grin

OOOOOOOOOOOH!!!!!!!!
ok I just did that trick with 4 bombchus!

technically that means we can even stor the sword trick off the grass bush instead of off the bomb that is inside that room. Wink

which saves like another 10 seconds or so.
sooo.... we can do the groundjump and also do early bomb bag. Grin

Phallosvogel

Edit history:

Phallosvogel: 2006-07-16 11:39:31 am

2006-07-16 11:36:44 am

Hmmm, I just got an idea:
someone tested if you could stun Ganondorf withouth the bow, using the Lightarrows and crouch stab. But he said he wasnt high enough to hit him. Can you get this extra height with this new glitch? Huh?

EDIT: damn, forgot that you have to do the sword glitch first. kinda impossible right there...
EDIT2: or wait, didnt someone say you can do the swordglitch using bombs?

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-07-16 01:10:38 pm

2006-07-16 11:41:18 am

Zelda Scientist®

how can you use a light arrow with no bow? if you mean the light arrows on B then I'm not sure if you can anyways... why do you need extra height? if you hit him with one then he'kll come down lol.

secondly, I guess we will do the adult SG and also do the same skips in Dodongo's as we had before Grin

good stuff. That's just optimal. We should go test out forest temple next to see what's up with that.

(response for below post)
that is a negative. It can't even do that and recognize that the megaton isn't the master sword in the final battle. Secondly, do a Jumpslash, then fire a slingshot or bow shot... then crouch stab, the jumpslash's power is still there which means that the slingshot and the bow have no effect on sword items. Mainly because a bow never uses the same hitboxes that a sword does (evidence of such is provided w/ flame storage testing and supports the notion in every way)

And lastly, you can't do a crouch stab anywys... when you are in the air, if you use a crouch shield you lose the sword glitch and thusly cannot crouch stab since you fall out of the air.

Groundjump to switch (No Gauntlets/Power Bracelet)

Bomb Bag Early (4 Bombchus)

Yay for SG skip it really is fastest. Secondly have we confirmed the time it takes to complete spirit as adult vs the time it takes to plant bean and then use the superslide? Since we have dodongo's before jabu, when we go to jabu we have bombs and can buy the bean, so it's not like we lose that much time Wink

We need to see if we can make that jump w/ just bomb to cross the moat, otherwise lets save the last chu and then activate the sword glitch off the chest or the special crop.

any estimates on how low a perfect run could go?

how can you use a light arrow with no bow? if you mean the light arrows on B then I'm not sure if you can anyways... why do you need extra height? if you hit him with one then he'kll come down lol.

secondly, I guess we will do the adult SG and also do the same skips in Dodongo's as we had before  ;D good stuff. That's just optimal. We should go test out forest temple next to see what's up with that.

(response for below post)
that is a negative. It can't even do that and recognize that the megaton isn't the master sword in the final battle. Secondly, do a Jumpslash, then fire a slingshot or bow shot... then crouch stab, the jumpslash's power is still there which means that the slingshot and the bow have no effect on sword items. Mainly because a bow never uses the same hitboxes that a sword does (evidence of such is provided w/ flame storage testing and supports the notion in every way)

And lastly, you can't do a crouch stab anywys... when you are in the air, if you use a crouch shield you lose the sword glitch and thusly cannot crouch stab since you fall out of the air.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU-KJ-Q-63Q]Groundjump to switch (No Gauntlets/Power Bracelet)[/url]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekqbp5G2K2o]Bomb Bag Early (4 Bombchus)[/url]

Yay for SG skip it really is fastest. Secondly have we confirmed the time it takes to complete spirit as adult vs the time it takes to plant bean and then use the superslide? Since we have dodongo's before jabu, when we go to jabu we have bombs and can buy the bean, so it's not like we lose that much time  ;)

We need to see if we can make that jump w/ just bomb to cross the moat, otherwise lets save the last chu and then activate the sword glitch off the chest or the special crop.

any estimates on how low a perfect run could go?

Phallosvogel

Edit history:

Phallosvogel: 2006-07-16 12:18:25 pm

2006-07-16 12:08:24 pm

I meant: if you use the light arrows after getting them from from zelda WITHOUT having the bow, it behaves like you have no arrows in your quiver. and you arent able to get arrows.
BUT someone thought even if you just "sproing" this light-arrow-bow with no arrows the light-arrow-effect might be stored in the crouch-stab

(in response to aboves edited post^^)
damnit. then we have to find another way to store the lightarrow effect Grin

DK64_MASTER

Edit history:

DK64_MASTER: 2006-07-16 04:45:12 pm

2006-07-16 04:43:31 pm

Quote:

I meant: if you use the light arrows after getting them from from zelda WITHOUT having the bow, it behaves like you have no arrows in your quiver. and you arent able to get arrows.
BUT someone thought even if you just "sproing" this light-arrow-bow with no arrows the light-arrow-effect might be stored in the crouch-stab

(in response to aboves edited post^^)
damnit. then we have to find another way to store the lightarrow effect Grin

Can you buy arrows?

In the TAS, we get 30 bombs by getting the bomb bag upgrade. However, someone said finding bombs under rocks/bushes are impossible. I dunno if this is true, but I was able to buy bombs (Kakiro shop). Maybe the same holds for the light arrows?

Or is there any way to get the quiver upgrade?

RedMage

2006-07-16 05:02:59 pm

I've had bombs drop in the graveyard off thrown rocks while trying to skip the bean. It is kind of random, but bombs do drop.

DK64_MASTER

2006-07-16 05:05:18 pm

Quote:

I've had bombs drop in the graveyard off thrown rocks while trying to skip the bean. It is kind of random, but bombs do drop.

I'm assuming you are refering to helping out GuanoBowl with his TAS? Ok, that's something to note.

How exactly does one get the quiver upgrade(s)? Arrow-shooting minigames?

Phallosvogel

2006-07-16 05:09:36 pm

yeah. the first one is in kakariko (perfect play) the second is in the thiefes hideout (at least 1500 points)

RedMage

Edit history:

RedMage: 2006-07-16 05:14:06 pm

2006-07-16 05:10:45 pm

I was referring to the TAS. I'm pretty sure anything except bombchus, deku sticks, and magic beans can drop off rocks/bushes. Some are set ahead of time, ex: there is one jar that always drops a deku stick in Goron City (the only on that drops this) and there is a spot in theives hideout that always drops ammo for bow/slingshot.

DK64_MASTER

Edit history:

DK64_MASTER: 2006-07-16 05:16:54 pm

2006-07-16 05:12:11 pm

Quote:

I was referring to the TAS. I'm pretty sure anything except bombchus, deku sticks, and magic beans can drop off rocks/bushes. Some are set ahead of time, ex: there is one jar that always drops a deku stick in Goron City (the only on that drops this) and there is a spot in theives hideout that always drops ammo for bow/slingshot.

Makes sense.

Quote:

yeah. the first one is in kakariko (perfect play) the second is in the thiefes hideout (at least 1500 points)

And I'm assuming that we can't play either one, even if we do get the light arrows w/out the bow?

Phallosvogel

2006-07-16 05:12:19 pm

did you actually COLLECT the bombbag or did you use the upgrade glitch?