OoT [N64] Segmented [Suspended]

TSA

2006-08-02 07:23:21 pm

Retired

Eh...is all of that movement optimized on the Ganon's Tower Escape?

Other than that, I liked the Ganondorf battle.

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-08-02 08:00:20 pm

2006-08-02 08:00:04 pm

Speed is the key.

Quote:

Eh...is all of that movement optimized on the Ganon's Tower Escape?

I think I remember mwl saying that the tower escape was done 1 second slower than in your 4:57 run. Nevertheless, it should be more optimized in the second run.

AKA

Edit history:

AKA: 2006-08-02 08:04:45 pm

2006-08-02 08:02:06 pm

He's back!

Quote:

LoL you got the most boring part :P. I want to see Shadow Temple. I love Shadow Temple and those hover boots. Cheesy

I would have to upload Shadow in two parts, and I wouldn't want to intentionally give away the best part of the game and have people asking where the run is currently at.

The FT was the part of the run that annoyed most since I know I could beat in real time since it doesn't use the optimal strategies.

Quote:

Eh...is all of that movement optimized on the Ganon's Tower Escape?

Other than that, I liked the Ganondorf battle.

I think it generally was, he tried to go too quick and jump gaps making Zelda gasp on at least about 3 seperate occasions. I think it could be improved by 2 units. I had no idea how I could possibly lose 10 seconds on the Stalfos battle Huh?

mwl

Edit history:

mwl: 2006-08-02 08:53:22 pm

2006-08-02 08:50:25 pm

Quote:

How exactly are we getting magic without Zelda's Lullaby?

TSA didn't update the route on the first page. The plan is to get the magic meter as an adult on the way to Forest.

Quote:

I think I remember mwl saying that the tower escape was done 1 second slower than in your 4:57 run. Nevertheless, it should be more optimized in the second run.

Not the overall time, of course. I was saying that when Guano entered the fourth floor, he had 2'32" remaining on the timer, while TSA had 2'33".

Quote:

The FT was the part of the run that annoyed most since I know I could beat in real time since it doesn't use the optimal strategies.

Well, the issue is that Guano only releases updates after finishing an entire dungeon. So by the time Yautja and I watched his unoptimised FT segment, he was ready to move on. We brought up the mistakes, but he didn't want to redo the dungeon and said that he'll fix them in his next run.

When Mupen becomes more stable and the tricks are settled, you definitely need to do this TAS, AKA. I'd highly anticipate watching anything that you could come up with.

[quote]How exactly are we getting magic without Zelda's Lullaby?[/quote]
TSA didn't update the route on the first page. The plan is to get the magic meter as an adult on the way to Forest.

[quote]
I think I remember mwl saying that the tower escape was done 1 second slower than in your 4:57 run. Nevertheless, it should be more optimized in the second run.
[/quote]
Not the overall time, of course. I was saying that when Guano entered the fourth floor, he had 2'32" remaining on the timer, while TSA had 2'33".

[quote]The FT was the part of the run that annoyed most since I know I could beat in real time since it doesn't use the optimal strategies.[/quote]
Well, the issue is that Guano only releases updates after finishing an entire dungeon. So by the time Yautja and I watched his unoptimised FT segment, he was ready to move on. We brought up the mistakes, but he didn't want to redo the dungeon and said that he'll fix them in his next run.

When Mupen becomes more stable and the tricks are settled, you definitely need to do this TAS, AKA. I'd highly anticipate watching anything that you could come up with.

killswitcher

2006-08-02 11:46:35 pm

I just watched FIERCELINKMASTER's super slide video. Can that technique be put to use in this run? Seems like you could cover some ground very quickly. I don't know if this has been discussed yet, I'm not going to read this entire thread.

KD

2006-08-03 08:35:14 am

Jealousy™

I HATE superslide.

<3

P.S. Thanks for telling us about superslide, it's entirely new to us, and it should be discussed right this instant.

ShadowWraith

2006-08-03 09:05:19 am

.

Sarcastic much KD? He was only trying to be helpful, theres no need to act like that.

small muck

2006-08-03 08:04:39 pm

kay , finish today the avi & upload finish tomorrow Wink

of the TAS run from GuanBowl .. Reoslution will be 320x240 , good to watch and not too big i think it will be 400 ~ mb

greetz

FIERCELINKMASTER

Edit history:

FIERCELINKMASTER: 2006-08-03 09:28:01 pm

2006-08-03 09:25:58 pm

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Quote:

I HATE superslide.

<3

P.S. Thanks for telling us about superslide, it's entirely new to us, and it should be discussed right this instant.

You wonder why you don't have any friends.

Quote:

Ganodorf Battle

That's really cool.

Manocheese

2006-08-03 10:59:49 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Your sig owns, FIERCE. XD

TSA

2006-08-04 12:28:05 am

Retired

More attempts Saturday/Sunday. Hopefully I get Dodongo's Cavern done.

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-08-04 01:46:27 am

2006-08-04 01:31:16 am

Zelda Scientist®

Aewsome, hope all goes well... It's turned into quite the segment... also, I doubt you'd want to since the difficulty for this is hard enough, but are you planning on skipping the lava message? Also, does it save time anywyas? If we lose time taking the ladder (not sure) instead of the pillar, and also can't immediately jump down after the first 1 and drop the second in the eye, (can't do the jumpslash during the cutscene right?) then we can't do it till after the cutscene of the 2nd eye (or before it blows if we're fast enough), so we'd probably lose a little time usng this skip. Also, it would definitely up the difficulty in a decently tough segment.

Vid of it

Fluffy - how do you manage that? Do you just backflip before you fall and w/out the second bomb? I thought you wouldn't be near high enough to get up w/ one. Especially since it took me an extra on that gate w/ the groundjump. If you don't use 2 you'll fall to the ground. But... it's faster to od the other gate anyways... ingo is on the way there, you have bombs equipped (superslide option since it's pretty straight), and yo need only 2 bombs to do it. (the other needs that much if not more including the groundjump)

lol, anyone see that vid of Emu CC? Cool stuff, now I can try out hard CC tricks w/ savestate.

Aewsome, hope all goes well... It's turned into quite the segment... also, I doubt you'd want to  since the difficulty for this is hard enough, but are you planning on skipping the lava message? Also, does it save time anywyas? If we lose time taking the ladder (not sure) instead of the pillar, and also can't immediately jump down after the first 1 and drop the second in the eye, (can't do the jumpslash during the cutscene right?) then we can't do it till after the cutscene of the 2nd eye (or before it blows if we're fast enough), so we'd probably lose a little time usng this skip. Also, it would definitely up the difficulty in a decently tough segment.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00T4asva9lA]Vid of it[/url]

Fluffy - how do you manage that? Do you just backflip before you fall and w/out the second bomb? I thought you wouldn't be near high enough to get up w/ one. Especially since it took me an extra on that gate w/ the groundjump. If you don't use 2 you'll fall to the ground. But... it's faster to od the other gate anyways... ingo is on the way there, you have bombs equipped (superslide option since it's pretty straight), and yo need only 2 bombs to do it. (the other needs that much if not more including the groundjump)

lol, anyone see that vid of Emu CC? Cool stuff, now I can try out hard CC tricks w/ savestate.

Fail Boat

Edit history:

Fail Boat: 2006-08-04 01:38:06 am

2006-08-04 01:37:11 am

forum lurker

Has anyone been able to do the Epona Early (the gate way) with only one bomb? I just did it today. It's actually not that hard. You just get the endless sword glitch ready, place the bomb a few steps away from the gate, do what you normally do, then just do a ground jump up to the roof. I don't think it can be done with 1 bomb on the other fence. I've tried it a few times without luck.

TSA

Edit history:

TSA: 2006-08-04 01:55:51 am

2006-08-04 01:54:45 am

Retired

The Lava Skip, saves the time of the message minus 2 seconds, give or take. IMO, it is not worth it as the dungeon probably is the hardest so far.

The "platforms" in the main room reset each time you go to another area via "load" screen...so at the start, triggering the ground jump forces the pillars to reset, and it is like impossible to make the jumps in time, so I have to backwalk over the Lava to the other ladder on the other side.

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-08-04 02:02:21 am

2006-08-04 01:55:48 am

Zelda Scientist®

Yeah that's what I was thinking. It's not as practical as far as risk/reward.

Fluffy - I can't seem to do it w/ one bomb at all. Are you using 1 bomb and then 1 bombchu or something? You can use 1 bombchu as long as you hit the wall during the second backflip.

TSA - for the 100%. Why it's not in that thread... I'm not sure.

TSA

2006-08-04 02:00:20 am

Retired

Why are you guys still trying to to Epona Early?

Fail Boat

2006-08-04 04:34:31 am

forum lurker

Quote:

Yeah that's what I was thinking. It's not as practical as far as risk/reward.

Fluffy - I can't seem to do it w/ one bomb at all. Are you using 1 bomb and then 1 bombchu or something? You can use 1 bombchu as long as you hit the wall during the second backflip.

TSA - for the 100%. Why it's not in that thread... I'm not sure.

Which gate are you talking about? I'm talking about the gate where you also need to ground jump, not the big fence epona can hop over. You need to have the bomb almost right up against then fence then stand a little bit infront of it and wait for it to start blinking fast. After 2 blinks do a backflip then another backflip right after. It's easy.

I'd make a video but I can't right now. My memory card has been corrupted and I need to buy a new one.

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-08-04 03:11:57 pm

2006-08-04 02:16:54 pm

Zelda Scientist®

That is what I'm doing and I'm nowhere close to getting it.

Secondly, I've noticed something... When you get a bottle on B, it gives you 20 deku nuts in your inventory (even if you had a different amount)... whereas, if you had a bottle on B and a fish on C-right, it gives you a bottle on B w/ the warp (you just don't notice since it is a bottle already)... Now, if you catch that fish you drop out of the bottle... you now have 25 Deku nuts in your inventory (surpassing the cap at 20) but once you use 1 it drops to 20 so technically you have 21 deku nuts. If you drop the fish, it goes back to 20. Now, isn't also just a coincidence that 25 is the number that coincides w/ the nuber of necessary deku nuts needed to get a bottled fish on B? Look at how they are connected. Now, this means that when you get something on B, it will give you the coiciding item that would be necessary to get it there using bottle adventure standardly... basically speaking... if you could get a magic bean on B, it would give you light arrows in your inventory w/out needing to go back in time. Dig? This is a big observation because there is also another unknown variable in the mix... if you get that fishing rod on B, when you pause in certain places it becomes the master sword... and in others it becomes a deku stick. Is it also a coincidence that 0 in those items coincides w/ dekui sticks? maybe if we get 16 deku sticks and do it we can get the beans on B and get light arrows in our inventory while still having a B button sword... then again maybe not, the last part about Deku stick amounts is an unknown and thusly, only testing will truly tell us more about it. This is simply a theory until it is tested further. Also realize if you have a sword on B you can still do an easy ganon early. AND we also wouldn't have to beat forest either. Also, if you don't have the fish on C-right then it won't alter the menu when you change the B button because the little link they share is broken. Thusly you could get light arrows in the inventory, take the fish off C-right and then change B to the sword w/out altering the arrow status at all.

Also, I have no Idea what they are talking about on ZC, once you become an adult and have FW on B you can immediately do it anywhere... there is no need to go to Lon lon ranch or whatever else. That is just dumb.

also, if you replace something like the deku nuts w/ a bottle (21 bottle style), it still remembers your deku nut amount and goes off that, even when that very bottle is used for the fish on C-right... so it uses the fish on C-Right data and is recognized as a fish (deku nuts on c-right has a different effect and produces a deku nut on B no matter your current amount) and yet it still acknowledges the cross reference for the deku nut amount as well... most interesting. The inventory item and the variable amounts are completely separate entities in that kind of a perspective.

Edit: Deku stick idea didn't work, but in retrospect the zero on sticks is for the nuts which is for bottle B so that doesn't work anyways... even in theory. But, we need to find out how that change from the rod to the deku stick works and if we can manipulate that... because if we can put magic beans on B we get light arrows. This is kinda confusing when you work backwards like this too, I'm also not sure whether we need the bottled fish on C-right or not... I think if we have the fish on C-right then it would give us 18 deku nuts instead of light arrows, so we also need to find the proper item to have on C-right as well. This crap is complicated... but we know where to start... diagnostics on that deku stick transformation and it's manipulation (which seems to change from area to area as well... some areas it becomes the master sword again). Light arrow B is linked to 18 deku nuts, so maybe that is it. IDK... onc ewe get magic bean on B we can find the linked item easy... just trial and error.

That is what I'm doing and I'm nowhere close to getting it.

Secondly, I've noticed something... When you get a bottle on B, it gives you 20 deku nuts in your inventory (even if you had a different amount)... whereas, if you had a bottle on B and a fish on C-right, it gives you a bottle on B w/ the warp (you just don't notice since it is a bottle already)... Now, if you catch that fish you drop out of the bottle... you now have 25 Deku nuts in your inventory (surpassing the cap at 20) but once you use 1 it drops to 20 so technically you have 21 deku nuts. If you drop the fish, it goes back to 20. Now, isn't also just a coincidence that 25 is the number that coincides w/ the nuber of necessary deku nuts needed to get a bottled fish on B? Look at how they are connected. Now, this means that when you get something on B, it will give you the coiciding item that would be necessary to get it there using bottle adventure standardly... basically speaking... if you could get a magic bean on B, it would give you light arrows in your inventory w/out needing to go back in time. Dig? This is a big observation because there is also another unknown variable in the mix... if you get that fishing rod on B, when you pause in certain places it becomes the master sword... and in others it becomes a deku stick. Is it also a coincidence that 0 in those items coincides w/ dekui sticks? maybe if we get 16 deku sticks and do it we can get the beans on B and get light arrows in our inventory while still having a B button sword... then again maybe not, the last part about Deku stick amounts is an unknown and thusly, only testing will truly tell us more about it. This is simply a theory until it is tested further. Also realize if you have a sword on B you can still do an easy ganon early. AND we also wouldn't have to beat forest either. Also, if you don't have the fish on C-right then it won't alter the menu when you change the B button because the little link they share is broken. Thusly you could get light arrows in the inventory, take the fish off C-right and then change B to the sword w/out altering the arrow status at all.

Also, I have no Idea what they are talking about on ZC, once you become an adult and have FW on B you can immediately do it anywhere... there is no need to go to Lon lon ranch or whatever else. That is just dumb.

also, if you replace something like the deku nuts w/ a bottle (21 bottle style), it still remembers your deku nut amount and goes off that, even when that very bottle is used for the fish on C-right... so it uses the fish on C-Right data and is recognized as a fish (deku nuts on c-right has a different effect and produces a deku nut on B no matter your current amount) and yet it still acknowledges the cross reference for the deku nut amount as well... most interesting. The inventory item and the variable amounts are completely separate entities in that kind of a perspective.

Edit: Deku stick idea didn't work, but in retrospect the zero on sticks is for the nuts which is for bottle B so that doesn't work anyways... even in theory. But, we need to find out how that change from the rod to the deku stick works and if we can manipulate that... because if we can put magic beans on B we get light arrows. This is kinda confusing when you work backwards like this too, I'm also not sure whether we need the bottled fish on C-right or not... I think if we have the fish on C-right then it would give us 18 deku nuts instead of light arrows, so we also need to find the proper item to have on C-right as well. This crap is complicated... but we know where to start... diagnostics on that deku stick transformation and it's manipulation (which seems to change from area to area as well... some areas it becomes the master sword again). Light arrow B is linked to 18 deku nuts, so maybe that is it.  IDK... onc ewe get magic bean on B we can find the linked item easy... just trial and error.

Kazooie

Edit history:

Kazooie: 2006-08-04 04:04:23 pm

2006-08-04 03:59:00 pm

Zelda Rulez!

Quote:

That is what I'm doing and I'm nowhere close to getting it.

Secondly, I've noticed something... When you get a bottle on B, it gives you 20 deku nuts in your inventory (even if you had a different amount)... whereas, if you had a bottle on B and a fish on C-right, it gives you a bottle on B w/ the warp (you just don't notice since it is a bottle already)... Now, if you catch that fish you drop out of the bottle... you now have 25 Deku nuts in your inventory (surpassing the cap at 20) but once you use 1 it drops to 20 so technically you have 21 deku nuts. If you drop the fish, it goes back to 20. Now, isn't also just a coincidence that 25 is the number that coincides w/ the nuber of necessary deku nuts needed to get a bottled fish on B? Look at how they are connected. Now, this means that when you get something on B, it will give you the coiciding item that would be necessary to get it there using bottle adventure standardly... basically speaking... if you could get a magic bean on B, it would give you light arrows in your inventory w/out needing to go back in time. Dig? This is a big observation because there is also another unknown variable in the mix... if you get that fishing rod on B, when you pause in certain places it becomes the master sword... and in others it becomes a deku stick. Is it also a coincidence that 0 in those items coincides w/ dekui sticks? maybe if we get 16 deku sticks and do it we can get the beans on B and get light arrows in our inventory while still having a B button sword... then again maybe not, the last part about Deku stick amounts is an unknown and thusly, only testing will truly tell us more about it. This is simply a theory until it is tested further. Also realize if you have a sword on B you can still do an easy ganon early. AND we also wouldn't have to beat forest either. Also, if you don't have the fish on C-right then it won't alter the menu when you change the B button because the little link they share is broken. Thusly you could get light arrows in the inventory, take the fish off C-right and then change B to the sword w/out altering the arrow status at all.

Also, I have no Idea what they are talking about on ZC, once you become an adult and have FW on B you can immediately do it anywhere... there is no need to go to Lon lon ranch or whatever else. That is just dumb.

also, if you replace something like the deku nuts w/ a bottle (21 bottle style), it still remembers your deku nut amount and goes off that, even when that very bottle is used for the fish on C-right... so it uses the fish on C-Right data and is recognized as a fish (deku nuts on c-right has a different effect and produces a deku nut on B no matter your current amount) and yet it still acknowledges the cross reference for the deku nut amount as well... most interesting. The inventory item and the variable amounts are completely separate entities in that kind of a perspective.

Edit: Deku stick idea didn't work, but in retrospect the zero on sticks is for the nuts which is for bottle B so that doesn't work anyways... even in theory. But, we need to find out how that change from the rod to the deku stick works and if we can manipulate that... because if we can put magic beans on B we get light arrows. This is kinda confusing when you work backwards like this too, I'm also not sure whether we need the bottled fish on C-right or not... I think if we have the fish on C-right then it would give us 18 deku nuts instead of light arrows, so we also need to find the proper item to have on C-right as well. This crap is complicated... but we know where to start... diagnostics on that deku stick transformation and it's manipulation (which seems to change from area to area as well... some areas it becomes the master sword again). Light arrow B is linked to 18 deku nuts, so maybe that is it. IDK... onc ewe get magic bean on B we can find the linked item easy... just trial and error.

I think you know much about bottle adventure acryte Smiley

Quote:

Also, I have no Idea what they are talking about on ZC, once you become an adult and have FW on B you can immediately do it anywhere... there is no need to go to Lon lon ranch or whatever else. That is just dumb.

That is not dumb! when you become adult with FW on B you can use it in world map but when you warp away from lon lon ranch with that time where you ride with horse, game think that time is on every places and now you can only use FW on B because you can only use B button and ocarina in ingo ride minigame. when you wapr away and that time is on you can use those same settings in every places, so you can use B button and ocarina in every houses and every places, but not in fishing pond, don't know why Huh?

Use that time to bet really good maraton runner time Wink

Note: that explanation is not good one :-/

do you remember I have discovered that bottle adventure and in zelda chaos there is only litle help about bottle adventure Smiley

Zelda chaos need updating :-/

[quote]That is what I'm doing and I'm nowhere close to getting it.

Secondly, I've noticed something... When you get a bottle on B, it gives you 20 deku nuts in your inventory (even if you had a different amount)... whereas, if you had a bottle on B and a fish on C-right, it gives you a bottle on B w/ the warp (you just don't notice since it is a bottle already)... Now, if you catch that fish you drop out of the bottle... you now have 25 Deku nuts in your inventory (surpassing the cap at 20) but once you use 1 it drops to 20 so technically you have 21 deku nuts. If you drop the fish, it goes back to 20. Now, isn't also just a coincidence that 25 is the number that coincides w/ the nuber of necessary deku nuts needed to get a bottled fish on B? Look at how they are connected. Now, this means that when you get something on B, it will give you the coiciding item that would be necessary to get it there using bottle adventure standardly... basically speaking... if you could get a magic bean on B, it would give you light arrows in your inventory w/out needing to go back in time. Dig? This is a big observation because there is also another unknown variable in the mix... if you get that fishing rod on B, when you pause in certain places it becomes the master sword... and in others it becomes a deku stick. Is it also a coincidence that 0 in those items coincides w/ dekui sticks? maybe if we get 16 deku sticks and do it we can get the beans on B and get light arrows in our inventory while still having a B button sword... then again maybe not, the last part about Deku stick amounts is an unknown and thusly, only testing will truly tell us more about it. This is simply a theory until it is tested further. Also realize if you have a sword on B you can still do an easy ganon early. AND we also wouldn't have to beat forest either. Also, if you don't have the fish on C-right then it won't alter the menu when you change the B button because the little link they share is broken. Thusly you could get light arrows in the inventory, take the fish off C-right and then change B to the sword w/out altering the arrow status at all.

Also, I have no Idea what they are talking about on ZC, once you become an adult and have FW on B you can immediately do it anywhere... there is no need to go to Lon lon ranch or whatever else. That is just dumb.

also, if you replace something like the deku nuts w/ a bottle (21 bottle style), it still remembers your deku nut amount and goes off that, even when that very bottle is used for the fish on C-right... so it uses the fish on C-Right data and is recognized as a fish (deku nuts on c-right has a different effect and produces a deku nut on B no matter your current amount) and yet it still acknowledges the cross reference for the deku nut amount as well... most interesting. The inventory item and the variable amounts are completely separate entities in that kind of a perspective.

Edit: Deku stick idea didn't work, but in retrospect the zero on sticks is for the nuts which is for bottle B so that doesn't work anyways... even in theory. But, we need to find out how that change from the rod to the deku stick works and if we can manipulate that... because if we can put magic beans on B we get light arrows. This is kinda confusing when you work backwards like this too, I'm also not sure whether we need the bottled fish on C-right or not... I think if we have the fish on C-right then it would give us 18 deku nuts instead of light arrows, so we also need to find the proper item to have on C-right as well. This crap is complicated... but we know where to start... diagnostics on that deku stick transformation and it's manipulation (which seems to change from area to area as well... some areas it becomes the master sword again). Light arrow B is linked to 18 deku nuts, so maybe that is it.  IDK... onc ewe get magic bean on B we can find the linked item easy... just trial and error.[/quote]
I think you know much about bottle adventure acryte :)

[quote]Also, I have no Idea what they are talking about on ZC, once you become an adult and have FW on B you can immediately do it anywhere... there is no need to go to Lon lon ranch or whatever else. That is just dumb.
[/quote]
That is not dumb! when you become adult with FW on B you can use it in world map but when you warp away from lon lon ranch with that time where you ride with horse, game think that time is on every places and now you can only use FW on B because you can only use B button and ocarina in ingo ride minigame. when you wapr away and that time is on you can use those same settings in every places, so you can use B button and ocarina in every houses and every places, but not in fishing pond, don't know why ???
Use that time to bet really good maraton runner time ;)
Note: that explanation is not good one :-/

do you remember I have discovered that bottle adventure and in zelda chaos there is only litle help about bottle adventure :)
Zelda chaos need updating :-/

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-08-05 09:12:26 am

2006-08-05 07:39:55 am

Zelda Scientist®

Well, I'm gonna be investigating this for a bit... because if we can get light arrows w/out going back in time... and in our inventory to boot... oh man.

Basically, I'm gonna go back in time to get different crap on B and test what I can use to get things in my inventory. So... I'm not sure what I did... but I have bottle#3 (w/ fish) and a bottle (empty) where my bow should be... lol... so, hope all this works out because this could be the last big break we can get aside from Nabooru skip... and this sounds feasible if we can figure it all out...

Basically it appears that there is a link between the B button item and the C-right and the inventory. All 3 of these are intertwined and changing one not only can affect just that, but can affect all of them. The B button change can instantly affect the inventory, and the C-right can affect the inventory item that gets used... and the inventory affects the B button when travelling through time. They are all codependant... So, we need to figure out what item is needed on B (I believe this to be magic beans) and then what linking item is also necessary to make it update the inventory w/ light arrows.

Here are some examples if it helps you help me decipher all this... I have already drawn out a flowchart of sorts to help me visually depict the innerworkings... basically a primary and secondary link between 4 things... B, C-right, Inventory Item, and The New B (Aka B Refresh).

[Exaples for inventory updates]

1) C-right:[Bottled Fish] B:[Not Empty Bottle] New B:[Empty Bottle] Inventory:[Refreshes to 20 Deku Nuts]

2) C-right:[Bottled Fish] B:[Bottled Fish] New B:[Bottled Fish] Inventory:[Refreshes to 25 Deku Nuts]

Now, relatively:

[Examples for B updates]

1) C-right:[Bottled Fish] B:[Any Bottled Item/Empty Bottle] Inventory:[20 Deku Nuts] New B:[Refreshes to Bottle]

2) C-right:[Bottled Fish] B:[Any Bottled Item/Empty Bottle] Inventory:[25 Deku Nuts] New B:[Refreshes to Bottled Fish]

See the relation?

Now, we need to find the proper B button item and the proper linking item that will update the inventory in the Light arrow spot.

For anyone interested in testing... this is where you can find a chart w/ some info on stuff that can aid you in figuring all this out.

Findings in changes (documented for data testing purposes):
ok, a bottled fish on B with an empty bottle on C-right will give you a bottled fish on bottle 3... not sure if some of my inventory items change this or not. In the chart empty bottle and bottle 3 are connected.

This is similar to the way that magic beans and light arrows are connected on the chart... but different a little bit... in the workings of the above example... because when it gets the bottled fish it puts the bottled fish on B which is completely different and I don't see where it makes the freaking tie in w/ the fish at all... but both bottles contain fish so maybe it is just the refresh. I'm gonna test that.. I'll put the bottle on a different C than C down and an empty one on C-right and then turn it to a bottle and see if I get an empty bottle 3 or not.

OK... they are related bottle wise... the contents of the bottle on B are transferred as well into the bottle #3. So, basically if you catch a bug, there will be another bug in bottle #3. Same w/ fish, same with empty bottles, etc. So that is the tie-in... it needs to refresh. That is all.

Ok, so far I can take an item on chart slot 1 and get what is in 2 to appear but as whatever is on B... aka a freaking empty bottle... bleh... but I bet that slot reads as what is normall there... like the deku nuts and their amounts... so... I'll do it w/ ice arrows quickly to see if I can get that bottle that's in the ice arrow spot to become actual ice arrows.

if you can get light arrow B to transfer to inventory, that is at least one step in understanding how we can manipulate this...

So, so far I can get a bottle w/ item in it or without, onto any position in the inventory pretty much... But, we can also get inventory items to appear in their normal places, and updated at that...

Well, I'm gonna be investigating this for a bit... because if we can get light arrows w/out going back in time... and in our inventory to boot... oh man.

Basically, I'm gonna go back in time to get different crap on B and test what I can use to get things in my inventory. So... I'm not sure what I did... but I have bottle#3 (w/ fish) and a bottle (empty) where my bow should be... lol... so, hope all this works out because this could be the last big break we can get aside from Nabooru skip... and this sounds feasible if we can figure it all out...

Basically it appears that there is a link between the B button item and the C-right and the inventory. All 3 of these are intertwined and changing one not only can affect just that, but can affect all of them. The B button change can instantly affect the inventory, and the C-right can affect the inventory item that gets used... and the inventory affects the B button when travelling through time. They are all codependant... So, we need to figure out what item is needed on B (I believe this to be magic beans) and then what linking item is also necessary to make it update the inventory w/ light arrows.

Here are some examples if it helps you help me decipher all this... I have already drawn out a flowchart of sorts to help me visually depict the innerworkings... basically a primary and secondary link between 4 things... B, C-right, Inventory Item, and The New B (Aka B Refresh).

[Exaples for inventory updates]

1) C-right:[Bottled Fish] B:[Not Empty Bottle] New B:[Empty Bottle] Inventory:[Refreshes to 20 Deku Nuts]

2) C-right:[Bottled Fish] B:[Bottled Fish] New B:[Bottled Fish] Inventory:[Refreshes to 25 Deku Nuts]

Now, relatively:

[Examples for B updates]

1) C-right:[Bottled Fish] B:[Any Bottled Item/Empty Bottle] Inventory:[20 Deku Nuts] New B:[Refreshes to Bottle]

2) C-right:[Bottled Fish] B:[Any Bottled Item/Empty Bottle] Inventory:[25 Deku Nuts] New B:[Refreshes to Bottled Fish]

See the relation?

Now, we need to find the proper B button item and the proper linking item that will update the inventory in the Light arrow spot.

For anyone interested in testing... [url=http://www.jaytheham.com/zc/oot.php?page=ootba]this[/url] is where you can find a chart w/ some info on stuff that can aid you in figuring all this out.

Findings in changes (documented for data testing purposes):
ok, a bottled fish on B with an empty bottle on C-right will give you a bottled fish on bottle 3... not sure if some of my inventory items change this or not. In the chart empty bottle and bottle 3 are connected.

This is similar to the way that magic beans and light arrows are connected on the chart... but different a little bit... in the workings of the above example... because when it gets the bottled fish it puts the bottled fish on B which is completely different and I don't see where it makes the freaking tie in w/ the fish at all... but both bottles contain fish so maybe it is just the refresh. I'm gonna test that.. I'll put the bottle on a different C than C down and an empty one on C-right and then turn it to a bottle and see if I get an empty bottle 3 or not.

OK... they are related bottle wise... the contents of the bottle on B are transferred as well into the bottle #3. So, basically if you catch a bug, there will be another bug in bottle #3. Same w/ fish, same with empty bottles, etc. So that is the tie-in... it needs to refresh. That is all.

Ok, so far I can take an item on chart slot 1 and get what is in 2 to appear but as whatever is on B... aka a freaking empty bottle... bleh... but I bet that slot reads as what is normall there... like the deku nuts and their amounts... so... I'll do it w/ ice arrows quickly to see if I can get that bottle that's in the  ice arrow spot to become actual ice arrows.

if you can get light arrow B to transfer to inventory, that is at least one step in understanding how we can manipulate this...

So, so far I can get a bottle w/ item in it or without, onto any position in the inventory pretty much... But, we can also get inventory items to appear in their normal places, and updated at that...

mwl

2006-08-05 11:00:56 am

Wow...if only we had source code access, this would be much easier.

Anyhow, good luck.

AKA

2006-08-05 03:03:56 pm

He's back!

Is there a way to do that diamond bridge room in Spirit without the slingshot or bomerang?

Or get bombag without slingshot

Kazooie

2006-08-05 06:19:51 pm

Zelda Rulez!

Quote:

Is there a way to do that diamond bridge room in Spirit without the slingshot or bomerang?

Or get bombag without slingshot

That diamond bridge room can only be done with hover I think. Are you gonna skip slingshot?

AKA

Edit history:

AKA: 2006-08-05 07:16:43 pm

2006-08-05 07:14:46 pm

He's back!

Quote:

That diamond bridge room can only be done with hover I think. Are you gonna skip slingshot?

No I won't skip slingshot since I need it for Dondongo's, I find that trick in Deku hard to do since the timing is so precise. Kazooie if your quick enough you can get the bombchu's from the well instead of the Spirit (but you still have to be really quick in death mountain) or are you using the bomb hover strategy since I'm still skipping using in Jabu, however I still use to skip the bean in the graveyard. I wonder if TSA or Yautja will use Dampe's roof for Shadow early since the sword glitch will stay activated and its a much easier seam walk. I had a lot of attempts recently at it. I did the bean skip and Shadow early brillantly since I'm not aquiring bombchu's in the run, but as I was on the final corner to do the torch skip I fell off and gave up. Then I had another attempt and made it to the Adult adventure but my disk was corrupted when I played it back which rendered my run useless, I'm still trying I won't let this game defeat my goal. I have a really funny timing strategy for the bean skip since I hum the Big Ben tune, but I hum the second part faster and do a quick delay and then backflip, it works 90% of the time for me.

[quote]
That diamond bridge room can only be done with hover I think. Are you gonna skip slingshot?[/quote]

No I won't skip slingshot since I need it for Dondongo's, I find that trick in Deku hard to do since the timing is so precise. Kazooie if your quick enough you can get the bombchu's from the well instead of the Spirit (but you still have to be really quick in death mountain) or are you using the bomb hover strategy since I'm still skipping using in Jabu, however I still use to skip the bean in the graveyard. I wonder if TSA or Yautja will use Dampe's roof for Shadow early since the sword glitch will stay activated and its a much easier seam walk. I had a lot of attempts recently at it. I did the bean skip and Shadow early brillantly since I'm not aquiring bombchu's in the run, but as I was on the final corner to do the torch skip I fell off and gave up. Then I had another attempt and made it to the Adult adventure but my disk was corrupted when I played it back which rendered my run useless, I'm still trying I won't let this game defeat my goal. I have a really funny timing strategy for the bean skip since I hum the Big Ben tune, but I hum the second part faster and do a quick delay and then backflip, it works 90% of the time for me.

Kazooie

Edit history:

Kazooie: 2006-08-05 08:05:54 pm

2006-08-05 08:05:40 pm

Zelda Rulez!

Okay
I gonna use that bean skip in my run but I think I do it from box Smiley

yeah you can get in kakariko in day time if you are quik enought and I have done it many times Smiley