OoT [N64] Segmented [Suspended]

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-07-15 10:57:03 pm

2006-07-15 10:56:14 pm

Zelda Scientist®

Quote:

That doesn't work. Farore's Wind doesn't carry over between child and adult.

Yeah I realized that when I was talking to TSA last nioght lol. Needed slep and wrote that at like 8 am.

And yes, light arrows is the magic user.
We need to time crap... and also, is doing the kakariko cuckoo thing faster than doing that room in dodongos?

DK64_MASTER

2006-07-15 11:37:08 pm

Quote:

Skipping the boat ride would probably be possible if you could somehow get 500 bombs/bombchus. Tongue

Shouldn't we have hover by then?

Maybe if we do some more testing, we can use the hover boots to our advantage.

Or if, we can somehow lure an enemy to keep on boosting us...

TSA

2006-07-16 01:18:07 am

Retired

Still doing attempts...but for the love of me, this damn Cucco jump is pissing me off today. I keep not jumping high enough, or Link falls off the wooden thing...

::cries::

YautjaElder

2006-07-16 01:25:03 am

Speed is the key.

Quote:

Still doing attempts...but for the love of me, this damn Cucco jump is pissing me off today. I keep not jumping high enough, or Link falls off the wooden thing...

::cries::

I'm having the same problem with the jump. If I can just get the jump a little more often, the jumpslash is a piece of cake. Sad

snorlax

2006-07-16 02:17:36 am

zzzzzzzzzz

You are sure that going to Spirit as a child is the right thing to do, right? Now that you are getting bombs, you could use those until you get the bombchus out of the well, and stick with that as a child. Then use the hover trick to get over the wall in Lon Lon Ranch and get Epona to get to Spirit as an adult. I would think your current route is faster, but it's something to be considered.

FIERCELINKMASTER

Edit history:

FIERCELINKMASTER: 2006-07-16 02:24:25 am

2006-07-16 02:23:34 am

No the Quail is not riding the Q

Quote:

Then use the hover trick to get over the wall in Lon Lon Ranch and get Epona to get to Spirit as an adult.

Well you wouldn't need Epona to do that.

snorlax

2006-07-16 03:27:37 am

zzzzzzzzzz

Quote:

Well you wouldn't need Epona to do that.

Oh, right...I guess we'd have hover boots anyway, and even if we didn't we could probably hover across the gap. My point still stands, kind of.

TSA

2006-07-16 03:48:34 am

Retired

We need to do spirit because everyone overlooked a crucial issue:

If we do not get bombchus or the Silver Gauntlets, YOU MUST GET SARIA'S SONG to get the Goron Bracelet, which is the only way you can pick up a bomb to open Dodongo's Cavern...if you don't have bombchus.

Getting Saria's Song is really out of the way and takes a good few minutes...so just finishing the Spirit Temple after getting bombchus, and doing it first, is the best way.

Though, if we're getting bombs...we may be able to just ditch Spirit Temple after we get bombchus...

DK64_MASTER

2006-07-16 04:04:24 am

Quote:

We need to do spirit because everyone overlooked a crucial issue:

If we do not get bombchus or the Silver Gauntlets, YOU MUST GET SARIA'S SONG to get the Goron Bracelet, which is the only way you can pick up a bomb to open Dodongo's Cavern...if you don't have bombchus.

Getting Saria's Song is really out of the way and takes a good few minutes...so just finishing the Spirit Temple after getting bombchus, and doing it first, is the best way.

Though, if we're getting bombs...we may be able to just ditch Spirit Temple after we get bombchus...

Go to the well. Kill KD with Bombchus if possible using the new glitch.

UchihaSasuke

2006-07-16 04:38:57 am

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

you can't get the well bombchus without bombs or bombchus

DK64_MASTER

2006-07-16 05:10:48 am

Quote:

you can't get the well bombchus without bombs or bombchus

Fuck.

snorlax

Edit history:

snorlax: 2006-07-16 05:34:13 am

2006-07-16 05:15:25 am

zzzzzzzzzz

TSA, you are definitely right about the bombchus in Spirit being part of the fastest route, and getting the Goron Bracelet is certainly out of the question. Between beating King Dodongo and the other places you'll need to blow things up along the way, you'll definitely have to do at least one of these three things: get the Silver Gauntlets, get bombchus from the well, or get bombs. Now I believe that you guys are going to find it possible to beat King Dodongo with just bombchus using the hover glitch. Considering that fact, I think it might be possible (without going through the numbers) to beat the game with just 20 bombchus and no Gauntlets or bombs. However, you may have to do everything perfectly, and you probably wouldn't be able to do all the tricks you'd like to do, so I don't think those 20 bombchus will be sufficient.

Concerning the Silver Gauntlets, where exactly will they save you time? IIRC, the trip into the bottom of the well might even be shorter than finishing Child Spirit from the point of the bombchus, so even if the Gauntlets will save you a bombchu or two, they're not going to be worth it unless you are using all 20 bombchus. That seems to me like the only scenario in which the Gauntlets would have any use; if you need more than 20 bombchus anyway you'll have to get bombs (or more bombchus). I'm thinking just getting the bombs is going to be faster as long as they work as well as bombchus do in most places you would need them.

I'm thinking your Segment 6 area should end up looking like this:

Segment 6:
1. Sidehop past gate
2. Cross the Haunted Wasteland
3. Enter Spirit Temple
4. Save/Quit

Segment 7:
1. Spirit Temple up to bombchus
2. Save/Quit

Segment 8:
1. Exit Spirit Temple immediately
2. Learn Requiem of Spirit
3. Save/Quit

That leaves you with 10 bombchus for the time being. That gives you 1 to open Dodongo's Cavern, 5 or so to get bombs quickly, and probably 2 to light the eyes, which would still save a good deal of time. If you are finishing Shadow before getting the bow, then you'll need to use one to knock down the pillar as well, so unless I'm forgetting something (which I probably am), that puts you at about 9 bombchus used up for the whole game. OF COURSE, this is all assuming that bombs will work just as well as bombchus for the other skips that you would like to do. I would think refilling bombs if necessary is going to be a lot quicker than going to the bottom of the Well. If it turns out there are other skips that require bombchus that would save more than the 1:30 or so that a Well trip takes, then you can work that in after the Owl Warp. Otherwise, I say get the Spirit bombchus and the bombs, and skip the Silver Gauntlets and the Well bombchus.

TSA, you are definitely right about the bombchus in Spirit being part of the fastest route, and getting the Goron Bracelet is certainly out of the question.  Between beating King Dodongo and the other places you'll need to blow things up along the way, you'll definitely have to do at least one of these three things:  get the Silver Gauntlets, get bombchus from the well, or get bombs.  Now I believe that you guys are going to find it possible to beat King Dodongo with just bombchus using the hover glitch.  Considering that fact, I think it might be possible (without going through the numbers) to beat the game with just 20 bombchus and no Gauntlets or bombs.  However, you may have to do everything perfectly, and you probably wouldn't be able to do all the tricks you'd like to do, so I don't think those 20 bombchus will be sufficient.

Concerning the Silver Gauntlets, where exactly will they save you time?  IIRC, the trip into the bottom of the well might even be shorter than finishing Child Spirit from the point of the bombchus, so even if the Gauntlets will save you a bombchu or two, they're not going to be worth it unless you are using all 20 bombchus.  That seems to me like the only scenario in which the Gauntlets would have any use; if you need more than 20 bombchus anyway you'll have to get bombs (or more bombchus).  I'm thinking just getting the bombs is going to be faster as long as they work as well as bombchus do in most places you would need them.

I'm thinking your Segment 6 area should end up looking like this:

Segment 6: 
1. Sidehop past gate  
2. Cross the Haunted Wasteland  
3. Enter Spirit Temple 
4. Save/Quit

Segment 7:
1.  Spirit Temple up to bombchus
2.  Save/Quit

Segment 8:
1.  Exit Spirit Temple immediately
2.  Learn Requiem of Spirit
3.  Save/Quit

That leaves you with 10 bombchus for the time being.  That gives you 1 to open Dodongo's Cavern, 5 or so to get bombs quickly, and probably 2 to light the eyes, which would still save a good deal of time.  If you are finishing Shadow before getting the bow, then you'll need to use one to knock down the pillar as well, so unless I'm forgetting something (which I probably am), that puts you at about 9 bombchus used up for the whole game.  OF COURSE, this is all assuming that bombs will work just as well as bombchus for the other skips that you would like to do.  I would think refilling bombs if necessary is going to be a lot quicker than going to the bottom of the Well.  If it turns out there are other skips that require bombchus that would save more than the 1:30 or so that a Well trip takes, then you can work that in after the Owl Warp.  Otherwise, I say get the Spirit bombchus and the bombs, and skip the Silver Gauntlets and the Well bombchus.

DK64_MASTER

Edit history:

DK64_MASTER: 2006-07-16 05:23:28 am

2006-07-16 05:21:43 am

Quote:

Concerning the Silver Gauntlets, where exactly will they save you time? IIRC, the trip into the bottom of the well might even be shorter than finishing Child Spirit from the point of the bombchus, so even if the Gauntlets will save you a bombchu or two, they're not going to be worth it unless you are using all 20 bombchus.

Read a few posts up. We need bombs/bombchus to get the bombchus from the well! Lips Sealed

I sincerely believe that we can get the silver gauntlets without even entering the temple using this new glitch.

Now what is faster, getting bombs in Dodongo, or treking through gerudo valley/desert/collosus to get bombchus, and then maybe go to the well to get more?

snorlax

2006-07-16 05:31:24 am

zzzzzzzzzz

Quote:

Read a few posts up. We need bombs/bombchus to get the bombchus from the well! Lips Sealed

I sincerely believe that we can get the silver gauntlets without even entering the temple using this new glitch.

Now what is faster, getting bombs in Dodongo, or treking through gerudo valley/desert/collosus to get bombchus, and then maybe go to the well to get more?

We're assuming that we need to get the bombchus from Spirit Temple. We have to go to the Spirit Temple eventually anyway, and the only alternate option to those bombchus/Gauntlets is the Goron Bracelet, which is extremely time-consuming including a sidetrip for Saria's Song. Lips Sealed

I don't think we can get the Silver Gauntlets without entering the Spirit Temple very easily without bombs or bombchus, which we wouldn't have at that point. On the other hand, if we could do that fairly quickly, it might be worth considering.

TSA

Edit history:

TSA: 2006-07-16 05:42:23 am

2006-07-16 05:38:16 am

Retired

Unless you find a way into Dodongo's Cavern that doesn't involve Saria's Song/Goron Bracelet - Going to the Spirit Temple as Young Link is faster leaps and bounds.

Why?

Nobody has pulled off skipping the Thieve's Hideout without emulator as an Adult. That's 9+ mins if it is not possible by us on N64/GCN.

You have to go to the Spirit Temple somehow, so going there as Young Link is the same as adult, except you have two tricks you must perform besides normally getting there...but again, you skip the Thieve's Hideout.

There is no way as of yet to enter Dodongo's Cavern without explosives. If we don't get Bombchus, it's off to Sacred Forest Meadow, then a long cutscene with Saria, and then another long cutscene with Darunia.

If we get bombs, skipping Gauntlets should be no problem, as we can bomb blast to the top of the block in Adult Spirit, right?

So, if that is all - then I will ammend my Segment 7/8 as suggested.

Segment 5 status - Heh, I'm pulling of the "jump" more frequently...I give myself 3 attempts per segment to pull it off or I quit. I feel getting it within 3 attempts is fair, even for segmented, cuz this is like the hardest trick in the game. I am getting the "height" I need, but I am often screwing up the jumpslash timing. I'm fairly confident I'll get it by tomorrow. Then I'll get on top of segment 6, which is easier to do.

Hopefully, we'll have the Spirit Temple issue settled by the time I am at segment 7. If not, I'll redo Segment 4 while we sort it out.

Unless you find a way into Dodongo's Cavern that doesn't involve Saria's Song/Goron Bracelet - Going to the Spirit Temple as Young Link is faster leaps and bounds.

Why?

Nobody has pulled off skipping the Thieve's Hideout without emulator as an Adult.  That's 9+ mins if it is not possible by us on N64/GCN.

You have to go to the Spirit Temple somehow, so going there as Young Link is the same as adult, except you have two tricks you must perform besides normally getting there...but again, you skip the Thieve's Hideout.

There is no way as of yet to enter Dodongo's Cavern without explosives.  If we don't get Bombchus, it's off to Sacred Forest Meadow, then a long cutscene with Saria, and then another long cutscene with Darunia.

If we get bombs, skipping Gauntlets should be no problem, as we can bomb blast to the top of the block in Adult Spirit, right?

So, if that is all - then I will ammend my Segment 7/8 as suggested.

Segment 5 status - Heh, I'm pulling of the "jump" more frequently...I give myself 3 attempts per segment to pull it off or I quit.  I feel getting it within 3 attempts is fair, even for segmented, cuz this is like the hardest trick in the game.  I am getting the "height" I need, but I am often screwing up the jumpslash timing.  I'm fairly confident I'll get it by tomorrow.  Then I'll get on top of segment 6,  which is easier to do.

Hopefully, we'll have the Spirit Temple issue settled by the time I am at segment 7.  If not, I'll redo Segment 4 while we sort it out.

DK64_MASTER

2006-07-16 05:42:44 am

Quote:

Unless you find a way into Dodongo's Cavern that doesn't involve Saria's Song/Goron Bracelet - Going to the Spirit Temple as Young Link is faster leaps and bounds.

Why?

Nobody has pulled off skipping the Thieve's Hideout without emulator as an Adult. That's 9+ mins if it is not possible by us on N64/GCN.

Maybe with this new glitch, it can be done? So we need the warp song, right?

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-07-16 06:37:36 am

2006-07-16 05:55:40 am

Zelda Scientist®

Lol I don't think you can get into dodongos but gerudo fortress skip warrants spirit early even if all we did was learned the song and left Wink

But yeah, I even tried super slides using the tektites and rocks into the sides of the rock face to try and squeeze into there... negative... but since we get bombchus, we can shave off the time it takes to get bombs via the slingshot trick. Then we pick up time everywhere else so...

How much time did it take for Yautja to do the kakariko cuckoo collecting and how long does it take to do that room w/ all the block pushing + using ruto on the switch inmstead of the switch trick... aka 1 extra trip down on the elevator?

snorlax

Edit history:

snorlax: 2006-07-16 06:28:21 am

2006-07-16 06:12:05 am

zzzzzzzzzz

It takes him around 3 minutes to do the cuccoo collecting, not counting the conversation with the guard, which takes a minute or so by itself. Do you think 10 bombchus is going to be enough Acryte, or are there certain skips requiring bombchus that are time-saving enough to make a trip to the Bottom of the Well worthwhile other than the ones I listed above?

I realized I forgot the boulders blocking the path to Goron City. Here's the updated bombchu count:

1. Goron City entrance
2. Dodongo's Cavern entrance
3-4. Lighting the eyes
5. Shadow Temple pillar
6-?. Boosting up to the bomb chest in Dodongo's

Lighting the eyes could be done with bombs, but bombchus certainly would save time there (more than a Well trip I believe). The other three bombchu uses cannot be skipped with this route. I'm not sure how much time boosting to the bomb chest saves either. Is it safe to say they both save more time than a Well trip would take, in case you find you need more bombchus for later skips?

It takes him around 3 minutes to do the cuccoo collecting, not counting the conversation with the guard, which takes a minute or so by itself.  Do you think 10 bombchus is going to be enough Acryte, or are there certain skips requiring bombchus that are time-saving enough to make a trip to the Bottom of the Well worthwhile other than the ones I listed above?

I realized I forgot the boulders blocking the path to Goron City.  Here's the updated bombchu count:

1.  Goron City entrance
2.  Dodongo's Cavern entrance
3-4.  Lighting the eyes
5.  Shadow Temple pillar
6-?.  Boosting up to the bomb chest in Dodongo's

Lighting the eyes could be done with bombs, but bombchus certainly would save time there (more than a Well trip I believe).  The other three bombchu uses cannot be skipped with this route.  I'm not sure how much time boosting to the bomb chest saves either.  Is it safe to say they both save more time than a Well trip would take, in case you find you need more bombchus for later skips?

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-07-16 06:41:48 am

2006-07-16 06:33:53 am

Zelda Scientist®

we don't use those 2 to light the eyes anymore since we get bombs Wink

and also if we need to there are bombchus in child training ground and also in well Wink

The shadow pillar one we use bombs and super slide. So... we are looking at less since we save bombchus on deathmountain too because we can use bombs... then we need bombchu for moat cross and also 4 more for ganon early. so... then again we only need no bombchu in jabu (if we use sword trick w/ slingshot) and the one for moat can be done w/ bomb I'm sure (though harder... or sword glitch).

so 6 + 4 + 2 = 12 I think

Ok, so has anyone tried to make it so we do a sign glitch like thing where we take away nabooru's option to speak? THen we might be able to force up close and get in tht tunnel past her. So far I've only done it to signs but I think I recall doing it to one person I believe though I'm not too sure anymore though.

MWL = use the cuckoo abuse and then the sword trick to get over it Grin

good luck on that lol probably would take just as long.

we don't use those 2 to light the eyes anymore since we get bombs ;) and also if we need to there are bombchus in child training ground and also in well  ;)
The shadow pillar one we use bombs and super slide. So... we are looking at less since we save bombchus on deathmountain too because we can use bombs... then we need bombchu for moat cross and also 4 more for ganon early. so... then again we only need no bombchu in jabu (if we use sword trick w/ slingshot) and the one for moat can be done w/ bomb I'm sure (though harder... or sword glitch).

so 6 + 4 + 2 = 12 I think

Ok, so has anyone tried to make it so we do a sign glitch like thing where we take away nabooru's option to speak? THen we might be able to force up close and get in tht tunnel past her. So far I've only done it to signs but I think I recall doing it to one person I believe though I'm not too sure anymore though.

MWL = use the cuckoo abuse and then the sword trick to get over it  ;D
good luck on that lol probably would take just as long.

mwl

2006-07-16 06:40:23 am

Here are some areas worth looking into:

1. Find a way over Death Mountain gate without speaking to the guard. Excluding the 1.5-minute guard dialogue, going through it to Dodongo's is nearly two minutes faster than using the Goron City warp.

2. Find a way to the Mirror Shield on the Desert Colossus statue without using the bean plant. There is no easy way to buy a bean without backtracking because bombchus or one of the scales is needed for access to the salesman.

3. Find a way to kill off King Dodongo without the Gauntlets. 'Nuff said.

4. Find a way to access the second floor in Forest without block-pushing. If this and (3) are both pulled off, the Gauntlets can be skipped entirely.

snorlax

2006-07-16 06:41:20 am

zzzzzzzzzz

Quote:

we don't use those 2 to light the eyes anymore since we get bombs Wink

and also if we need to there are bombchus in child training ground and also in well Wink

The shadow pillar one we use bombs and super slide.

Lighting the eyes with the bombchus still saves a good bit of time doesn't it? Otherwise I won't include those. I admit I haven't played through it in a while, and I don't remember if the elevator is immediately in the next room, so using bombchus there would be pointless.

I know there are other spots where you can get bombchus; I'm just wondering if we can get through the game doing all the optimal skips with only 10 bombchus. I checked your video and you used 6 bombchus to get to the bomb chest. Including those bombchus but not the 2 used for lighting the eyes leaves us with one bombchu left over from our original 10, which could be used for the moat skip if necessary or somewhere else.

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2006-07-16 06:45:12 am

2006-07-16 06:43:00 am

Zelda Scientist®

ganon early takes 4 and is fast. but then again it can be done w/ bombs too... but that takes like 7 and also takes more time.

MWL - those bomb glitches take time and that means they take too long to warrant not getting gauntlets, especially if time is saved using ganon early for the golden gauntlets.

snorlax

2006-07-16 06:51:45 am

zzzzzzzzzz

Ganon early also requires getting Farore's Wind (which is currently being skipped) to skip past the bridge cutscene doesn't it? I'm not sure I understand the complete benefits of Ganon early. Also, do we need to have one of the sets of Gauntlets to get the bow easily in the Forest Temple? How much time would it take to skip around that puzzle if it's normally required?

mwl

Edit history:

mwl: 2006-07-16 07:03:53 am

2006-07-16 07:01:55 am

Golden Gauntlets is not that fast. You have to go halfway around the central tower to the Shadow mini-dungeon, and then you have several gaps to cross to the chest. Then you have to warp back to Forest either via the Minuet (25") or FW (and FW requires at least a minute to get).

Silver Gauntlets in Spirit takes roughly 3'45" (including the kidnapping scene) from getting Bombchus.

Manocheese

2006-07-16 07:08:30 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote:

Unless you find a way into Dodongo's Cavern that doesn't involve Saria's Song/Goron Bracelet - Going to the Spirit Temple as Young Link is faster leaps and bounds.

Why?

Nobody has pulled off skipping the Thieve's Hideout without emulator as an Adult. That's 9+ mins if it is not possible by us on N64/GCN.

Wait, what? What trick are you talking about? This? If so, I have done that 10+ times... It's MUCH easier than the Cucco Jump at Gerudo Valley.