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Game Page: https://speeddemosarchive.com/MetroidPrime.html

Metroid Prime (Low %) (Single Segment)

Verifier Responses

Quote from Miles:
Rejecting because this isn't a speedrun.

21% Single Segment is obscenely difficult, and it's incredible to pull it off at all. However, it doesn't aim for speed, only for survival, which is against the purpose of the site.


Quote from Paraxade:
I'm not going to watch this run because it's plainly apparent from the final time of 6:30 that it's completely unacceptable. There is absolutely no reason for any Metroid Prime speedrun to be anywhere near this long. Even taking 21% route differences into account and adding some allowances for mistakes, that final time is still far slower than it should be by a margin of hours.

The runner's mindset from his comments seems to be that just completing the run at all means it's acceptable. While it's true that this is an extraordinarily difficult category and simply completing it is an accomplishment in itself, that doesn't mean it qualifies as a good speedrun. I believe a margin for errors should be allowed for this category, but a time like this exceeds the threshold of what should be accepted by far too much.


1 other verifier withheld their comments, but rejected.

Decision: Reject

Reason: Two other verifiers did not submit final responses but provided similar comments. Please see my post below.

https://queue.speeddemosarchive.com/queue/verificationfiles/1318/

This run will be available for a month. After that these link(s) will no longer work.
Thread title:  
Edit history:
Vulajin: 2014-12-09 12:07:15 am
SDA is a speedrun site, and we judge speedruns on many criteria. In this case, there are two major issues at hand:

1) The runner pauses a lot during the course of the run. A basic calculation comparing his Youtube video to the submitted run indicates over two hours of pausing.
2) The runner loses time like crazy throughout the run. The mistakes in question are on tricks that are extremely hard, but they are still egregious.

I don't think many people will dispute the difficulty level of this category. Certainly, to some extent, the difficulty of a category influences how much time loss may be considered okay. However, this run misses the SDA standard for overall speed by a very substantial amount that cannot be overlooked. Verifiers were unanimous on this matter.

I would also like to clarify the rules for low% run obsoletion. Typically, a lower percentage of completion obsoletes a higher percentage when it comes to low% categories. However, in order for that obsoletion to occur, the lower percentage run must also meet SDA's other standards. Thus, although this run is lower percentage, it does not simply obsolete the existing run by default.

(edit) As a final note, let me add that verifiers and staff all agreed this run represented an extremely impressive feat. However, the nature of that feat is not one that matches the criteria for publication on SDA.
I was wondering when this category was gonna be submitted. A shame it's not up to par.

What I don't see is why this category isn't being run segmented. I know it's a little out of fashion these days but it's really the best way to showcase an extremely difficult category of any game.
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2014-12-09 06:19:06 am
MASTER-88: 2014-12-09 06:14:31 am
Master-88
22% is more speedrun low-% category than 21%.

Yeah no one really can´t run that category fast enought.  Probably requires tons segments, but its still not can,t compared 22% runs.

Yeah darnyoshi run was superb (its insane anyone who can pass this category without deaths). But yeah i really agree verifers its not speedrun. I think your runners might can go back to try 22% speedruns in SDA. 21% probably never will accepted low-% here because its simply too slow and hard category to speedrun.

But otherwise that was probably one most greatest things what ever happen Prime. But yeah speedrun is speedrun thats cruel.
<(^_^)>
Quote from Onin:
I was wondering when this category was gonna be submitted. A shame it's not up to par.

What I don't see is why this category isn't being run segmented. I know it's a little out of fashion these days but it's really the best way to showcase an extremely difficult category of any game.


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBLtPAIryVaa2m2KvPliyvH_ne6z5RpMi by metroid177. Tons of really sick unique strats he's using, and I believe he's been practicing for single segment 21% hard as well (though he's been prioritizing his segmented run i think)
Quote from MASTER-88:
22% is more speedrun low-% category than 21%.

I think your runners might can go back to try 22% speedruns in SDA. 21% probably never will accepted low-% here because its simply too slow and hard category to speedrun.

This is not true. 21% is perfectly fine for speedrunning. It is extremely difficult yes, but it doesn't have to be slow anymore. Most of the particularly slow parts have been cut out in recent years. The horrible slog that is the Magmoor Wallcrawl (for those not familiar with prime terminology, wallcrawling means traveling out of bounds) can be replaced with getting floaty jump. This run does not do that because getting floaty jump requires staying in lava for a few seconds, and going through twin fires tunnel, two things that you want to avoid in a run solely about not dying. In addition, the long phendrana wallcrawl can be cut down in size with wallcrawling from frost cave, a room that is much closer, but this would be risky in single segment. However, (I believe) after this run was completed, an easier way of doing Phendrana's Edge inbounds was discovered, cutting out the need to wallcrawl there entirely for both segmented and single segment.

The run sent here is only really the beginning of major advancements in 21%. Much work is being put into the category by metroid177 and daryoshi.

Daryoshi is also working on his own segmented run of 21% hard mode which while less optimized than metroid177's wip run, will be done sooner and is at the very least a proof of concept that 21% can be speedrun, moreso than the current fastest completion of 21% on video by miles (T3, who has the fastest any% time claims to have a 2:58 segmented, but no video) and the single segment run submitted here. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9RVzn-OgslMgXJ8HB6n16tiGSf9pzcJd

The mantra that "21% cannot be speedrun" needs to end because it's false and it's getting in the way of 21% advancements and research. Multiple times I have seen Metroid177 say "How was this not discovered before?" in regards to 21% tricks (here for example), and I personally suspect its due to the category's reputation more than anything.

21% speedruns are in progress. Despite this not being a speedrun, the category is able to be speedrun and there is motivation for the category to advance now.
Quote from TheMG2:
The horrible slog that is the Magmoor Wallcrawl (for those not familiar with prime terminology, wallcrawling means traveling out of bounds) can be replaced with getting floaty jump. This run does not do that because getting floaty jump requires staying in lava for a few seconds, and going through twin fires tunnel, two things that you want to avoid in a run solely about not dying.


Uhh... since when has that been possible? Maybe I've missed some developments, but I'm pretty sure Miles confirmed you can't get floaty jump in Workstation without going OoB, and nobody has confirmed a SW entrance in that room that doesn't require space jump.
Edit history:
TheMG2: 2014-12-09 03:45:28 pm
TheMG2: 2014-12-09 03:42:16 pm
Quote from Paraxade:
Quote from TheMG2:
The horrible slog that is the Magmoor Wallcrawl (for those not familiar with prime terminology, wallcrawling means traveling out of bounds) can be replaced with getting floaty jump. This run does not do that because getting floaty jump requires staying in lava for a few seconds, and going through twin fires tunnel, two things that you want to avoid in a run solely about not dying.


Uhh... since when has that been possible? Maybe I've missed some developments, but I'm pretty sure Miles confirmed you can't get floaty jump in Workstation without going OoB, and nobody has confirmed a SW entrance in that room that doesn't require space jump.

Correct, you cannot get floaty jump in magmoor workstation. HOWEVER, you can get the first part of floaty jump in magmoor workstation, and the second in Burning Trail. This has been possible ever since miles showed how floaty jump really works, which is to say that it does not require a state change.

EDIT: First video I can think of that does this was metroid177's 21% hard playthrough (xxy xxyy on youtube).
EDIT2: Cleanest video of this:
ah ok. I recall seeing that actually, I think I just forgot about it.