Metal Gear Solid 2 (PS2/HD Version)

Magnum66

Edit history:

Magnum66: 2013-08-21 02:42:25 pm

Magnum66: 2013-08-21 02:42:21 pm

Magnum66: 2013-08-21 02:42:10 pm

2013-08-21 02:35:04 pm

http://twitch.tv/Exisidis2

Decided to make this topic as I couldn't find an MGS2 topic alive anywhere. Also because me and TheThrillness decided to finally start glitching this game now.

And.... I found this:

Video coming soon Wink

Thread title:

Anemptybox

2013-08-21 02:53:48 pm

It begins.. Great topic, will follow your progress close as I did with MGS1. Good luck and looking forward to seeing the video!

Magnum66

2013-08-21 07:22:31 pm

http://twitch.tv/Exisidis2

2 new OOB glitches found today already! Here are the videos as promised, enjoy! Wink

Moops

2013-08-21 11:17:48 pm

Nice work! Have you managed to find any large skips using this?

Chfou

Edit history:

Chfou: 2013-08-22 03:37:27 am

Chfou: 2013-08-22 03:37:26 am

2013-08-22 03:33:25 am

Get run'd!!

Are there any differences between the HD version, Sons of Liberty and Substance?

bmn

Edit history:

bmn: 2013-08-22 03:54:55 am

bmn: 2013-08-22 03:54:15 am

2013-08-22 03:51:23 am

Sorry Magnum, I've seen Droogie doing the post-Olga ladder glitch a few times, I think he found it about a month ago Wink

That swimming is legit tho. I has an excite.

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2013-08-22 12:15:39 pm

2013-08-22 12:15:20 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Moops, the plant dock one has potential to skip the fortune boss fight. I'm in the process of trying it now.

It's a tough skip though because this game has the same mechanics as MGS door loading which I realized when I tried to skip Gray Fox. Basically if you activate a door from the unloaded side it will load but "fake load" (it will unload as soon as the door closes). To keep it loaded you have to activate the door from the side the game thinks you should be activating it from. To complete the skip you then need to get height while swimming so you can pass over the Fortune trigger while keeping the door open. Then if we get lucky the elevator will take us back up with no Fortune and we can go straight to Fatman.

Chfou, no idea. We just know the HD version is the fastest and we plan to make the HD version sub 1 hour.

bmn, that's cool. We will see what else we can find.

kakka_rot

2013-08-22 03:42:10 pm

Remember your mantra.

I would just like to post and say I highly support this thread.

Magnum66

Edit history:

Magnum66: 2013-08-22 06:37:26 pm

2013-08-22 06:37:12 pm

http://twitch.tv/Exisidis2

Quote from bmn:

Sorry Magnum, I've seen Droogie doing the post-Olga ladder glitch a few times, I think he found it about a month ago Wink

That swimming is legit tho. I has an excite.

Alright thanks bmn! It's hard to know though when no one posts any videos you see Wink

Hopefully we find a lot more and sequence breaks. Smiley

I worked today so couldn't test anything, but I have some big ideas. Me and TheThrillness are gonna get back to glitching it tomorrow. Smiley

kakka_rot

2013-08-23 04:27:42 am

Remember your mantra.

Both glitches work on PS2 Substance version, as suspected.

During Snake's frog hopping glitch I was able to mash around and fall beneath the floor, nothing too interesting aside from that.

Slade

2013-08-23 05:45:32 am

Droogie also found that:

Magnum66

2013-08-23 07:42:28 am

http://twitch.tv/Exisidis2

Quote from Slade:

Droogie also found that:

Thank you Slade! I KNEW there was a glitch video I saw where someone glitched inside the conveyor belt and I couldn't for the life of me remember!

kakka_rot

Edit history:

kakka_rot: 2013-08-24 03:48:29 am

2013-08-24 03:41:57 am

Remember your mantra.

Spent about 3 hours playing with things tonight, didn't find anything too useful, but I feel I'm getting a better handling of how oob works in this game.

http://www.twitch.tv/kakka_rot/c/2807186
If you really want to, you can use the Ladder Clip to get across the first hull without having to run across the floor, but it isn't any faster.
Still fun, though.

Also, whats the deal with the conveyer clip? Is there something particular about it, or do you just have to mash incredibly quickly? I tried it for awhile and couldn't get it to work. I use PS2 NTSC Substance.

Magnum66

2013-08-24 11:30:29 am

http://twitch.tv/Exisidis2

Quote from kakka_rot:

Spent about 3 hours playing with things tonight, didn't find anything too useful, but I feel I'm getting a better handling of how oob works in this game.

http://www.twitch.tv/kakka_rot/c/2807186
If you really want to, you can use the Ladder Clip to get across the first hull without having to run across the floor, but it isn't any faster.
Still fun, though.

Also, whats the deal with the conveyer clip? Is there something particular about it, or do you just have to mash incredibly quickly? I tried it for awhile and couldn't get it to work. I use PS2 NTSC Substance.

Yeah Kakka_rot already knew about that ladder glitch in the 1st hull, it's what made me think about using it on the tanker outside the ship. The conveyor clip as Raiden you need to weapons/item set to previous so it equips the last thing you had when you press L2 or R2. Then you want to have chaff/stun out to switch back and forth from, and mash R2 while crouching against a wall and going under an open space.

Also I found 2 new OOB glitches in MGS2 last night. I'm gonna record them soon and upload them here when I'm done. I also found a ton of MGS Twin Snakes glitches yesterday. Will upload them and post them in newer consoles thread.

[quote="kakka_rot"]Spent about 3 hours playing with things tonight, didn't find anything too useful, but I feel I'm getting a better handling of how oob works in this game.

http://www.twitch.tv/kakka_rot/c/2807186
If you really want to, you can use the Ladder Clip to get across the first hull without having to run across the floor, but it isn't any faster.
Still fun, though.

Also, whats the deal with the conveyer clip? Is there something particular about it, or do you just have to mash incredibly quickly? I tried it for awhile and couldn't get it to work. I use PS2 NTSC Substance.[/quote]

Yeah Kakka_rot already knew about that ladder glitch in the 1st hull, it's what made me think about using it on the tanker outside the ship. The conveyor clip as Raiden you need to weapons/item set to previous so it equips the last thing you had when you press L2 or R2. Then you want to have chaff/stun out to switch back and forth from, and mash R2 while crouching against a wall and going under an open space.

Also I found 2 new OOB glitches in MGS2 last night. I'm gonna record them soon and upload them here when I'm done. I also found a ton of MGS Twin Snakes glitches yesterday. Will upload them and post them in newer consoles thread.

Magnum66

2013-08-24 05:33:40 pm

http://twitch.tv/Exisidis2

Okay here are the 2 new glitches I found last night, enjoy:

New Conveyor room OOB Glitch:

New Shell 1 Core OOB Glitch:

squared64

2013-08-25 02:37:06 am

Quote from Chfou:

Are there any differences between the HD version, Sons of Liberty and Substance?

I can note the obvious aspect ratio changes, which sometimes add screen, and mostly crop it (making the second Tengu fight on Extreme+ more challenging).

Otherwise, there's the health given to the player for the Solidus choking scene, which is 120 on Extreme/European Extreme - making the fight with Solidus much easier than it should be. The load times between areas/cutscenes seem quicker overall, but codec calls take noticeably longer to show up.

Olga's AI, and the AI of Snake (and, most probably, other bosses/enemies) seem more unpredictable than they were in Substance.

That's all I've noticed; I definitely wouldn't compare times between the PS2 and HD versions of the game.

bmn

Edit history:

bmn: 2013-08-25 03:59:47 am

2013-08-25 03:54:47 am

Differences between SD versions are on the KB. HD version differences:

Olga's initial movement is now random (same as if you continue in all versions, and same as SoL US).

Timing is not even close to similar; there are gains and losses everywhere though I'm not sure they've been tested to understand them fully.

Solidus choking 2 is a fixed time, I think equivalent to Easy on the SD versions. O2 loss rate is quicker, though, so easier difficulties are harder than in SD and harder difficulties are easier.

Grenades use MGS3 timing (the timer starts when the grenade is thrown, not when you initially press Sq). This makes it impossible to cook grenades, and they will take a second longer to explode even if you tap Sq. As a result (in my opinion) Tengus 1 is significantly more difficult.

All HD versions, including the ones that call themselves SoL in Asia, are based on Substance, so no coolant trick or elevator clip.

360 version has some hefty control changes as a result of the lack of pressure sensitivity on the controller's face buttons. Said control changes, for the most part, suck.

[url=https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Metal_Gear_Solid_2:_Sons_of_Liberty]Differences between SD versions are on the KB[/url]. HD version differences:

Olga's initial movement is now random (same as if you continue in all versions, and same as SoL US).

Timing is not even close to similar; there are gains and losses everywhere though I'm not sure they've been tested to understand them fully.

Solidus choking 2 is a fixed time, I think equivalent to Easy on the SD versions. O2 loss rate is quicker, though, so easier difficulties are harder than in SD and harder difficulties are easier.

Grenades use MGS3 timing (the timer starts when the grenade is thrown, not when you initially press Sq). This makes it impossible to cook grenades, and they will take a second longer to explode even if you tap Sq. As a result (in my opinion) Tengus 1 is significantly more difficult.

All HD versions, including the ones that call themselves SoL in Asia, are based on Substance, so no coolant trick or elevator clip.

360 version has some hefty control changes as a result of the lack of pressure sensitivity on the controller's face buttons. Said control changes, for the most part, suck.

squared64

Edit history:

squared64: 2013-08-29 09:28:59 pm

squared64: 2013-08-25 09:58:43 pm

squared64: 2013-08-25 09:58:09 pm

squared64: 2013-08-25 09:55:21 pm

2013-08-25 09:53:55 pm

If you take a few extra seconds to grab either six (instead of four) stun grenades and/or the body armor, you can generally just spam the stun grenades through Tengus 1 without any risk; it's just getting the first one to explode as far back as possible to knock out rather than blind the two far-wing Tengus, and the last one to explode after the top-right Tengus in the final spawn drop down that's a little annoying.

The choking is 14 seconds long (compare E-EX 50 on PC, 55 on NTSC-U, 60 on NTSC-J, and 65 on PAL) and not only does the O2 drop quicker, but you need to press the button faster to maintain O2 than you did in the PS2 version (using an adjustable turbo bind on the PC version - as far as I know the same as the PS2 version without any slowdown - I found the required speed at minimum is 9 per second to avoid dropping. I'd estimate it's about 11-12 times/second on the HD version). IIRC it's about Easy in length on SD, but the number of presses to stop the bar from dropping decrease on lower difficulties instead of overall time. You only need to press triangle 12 times total to survive it on VE.
Again, Solidus is really easy in the HD version on Extreme since the health in the choking scene is Easy-level health (120 instead of 50/30 for EX/E-EX).

If the 360 control change in weapon lowering is anything like the PS Vita version, you can skip running down/up stairs by holding the button. I think the 360 version's load times are overall a little faster than the PS3 version's too. Since the PS3 controller's more sensitive than the PS2 one, IMO it's a lot easier getting through rooms requiring multiple hold-ups on the Vita/360 (theoretically - I don't own a 360) since there's no risk of accidentally firing (e.g. Hold 2 in Tanker).

No-one's done a comprehensive analysis of slowdown, but there's a lot less of it for Fortune (compared to both PAL and NTSC PS2), and I think a little more for the RAYs (compared to PAL PS2; I don't recall how much slow-down there was in my US copy). Interestingly, I remember the Stinger-spam method for killing Vamp (which isn't usable in a no-kill or Extreme difficulty (without the SP wig) run of this game anyway) being much harder to get in the HD collection since there was less slowdown there. You had to aim at Vamp's feet, and a little to the right. It's outright undoable on the PS Vita version from what I've tried - oddly, there seems to be less slowdown for it. The music doesn't distort on the Vita build either.

If you take a few extra seconds to grab either six (instead of four) stun grenades and/or the body armor, you can generally just spam the stun grenades through Tengus 1 without any risk; it's just getting the first one to explode as far back as possible to knock out rather than blind the two far-wing Tengus, and the last one to explode after the top-right Tengus in the final spawn drop down that's a little annoying.

The choking is 14 seconds long (compare E-EX 50 on PC, 55 on NTSC-U, 60 on NTSC-J, and 65 on PAL) and not only does the O2 drop quicker, but you need to press the button faster to maintain O2 than you did in the PS2 version (using an adjustable turbo bind on the PC version - as far as I know the same as the PS2 version without any slowdown - I found the required speed at minimum is 9 per second to avoid dropping. I'd estimate it's about 11-12 times/second on the HD version). IIRC it's about Easy in length on SD, but the number of presses to stop the bar from dropping decrease on lower difficulties instead of overall time. You only need to press triangle 12 times total to survive it on VE.
Again, Solidus is really easy in the HD version on Extreme since the health in the choking scene is Easy-level health (120 instead of 50/30 for EX/E-EX).

If the 360 control change in weapon lowering is anything like the PS Vita version, you can skip running down/up stairs by holding the button. I think the 360 version's load times are overall a little faster than the PS3 version's too. Since the PS3 controller's more sensitive than the PS2 one, IMO it's a lot easier getting through rooms requiring multiple hold-ups on the Vita/360 (theoretically - I don't own a 360) since there's no risk of accidentally firing (e.g. Hold 2 in Tanker).

No-one's done a comprehensive analysis of slowdown, but there's a lot less of it for Fortune (compared to both PAL and NTSC PS2), and I think a little more for the RAYs (compared to PAL PS2; I don't recall how much slow-down there was in my US copy). Interestingly, I remember the Stinger-spam method for killing Vamp (which isn't usable in a no-kill or Extreme difficulty (without the SP wig) run of this game anyway) being much harder to get in the HD collection since there was less slowdown there. You had to aim at Vamp's feet, and a little to the right. It's outright undoable on the PS Vita version from what I've tried - oddly, there seems to be less slowdown for it. The music doesn't distort on the Vita build either.

kakka_rot

2013-08-26 07:32:59 pm

Remember your mantra.

This game has a surprising amount of places you can make it OOB, though the vast majority right now are just getting me stuck in walls.
Both the pipe room and weapon containment strut (the one with the PSG1) had spots that worked, but forced me to soft reset after becoming trapped.

The most interesting place for me right now is the Bar in the Tanker. You can get on top of the bar using the M9 clip, which doesn't seem like much, but it might be a fun lead. What interesting about this spot is it is right next to the stairs that are cleared after defeating Olga. If we could get into the wall here, we could probably skip her.

Streamed me swimming through air last night for 2 hours and got nowhere. I found a good place to get OOB without falling into the water, and made it all the way to where the unloaded room and elevator would be, but even at the appropriate height, you're just swimming through oblivion.

Annoying thing about that room, is on the right side, you can crawl beneath that thing to get a ration or something. There is one corner that WOULD allow for Grenade clipping, but when I push my back up to it, I just can't get Raiden to shift in order for me to do the clip, it's quite frustrating.

I smell something close. Happy hunting everyone

This game has a surprising amount of places you can make it OOB, though the vast majority right now are just getting me stuck in walls.
Both the pipe room and weapon containment strut (the one with the PSG1) had spots that worked, but forced me to soft reset after becoming trapped.

The most interesting place for me right now is the Bar in the Tanker. You can get on top of the bar using the M9 clip, which doesn't seem like much, but it might be a fun lead. What interesting about this spot is it is right next to the stairs that are cleared after defeating Olga. If we could get into the wall here, we could probably skip her.

Streamed me swimming through air last night for 2 hours and got nowhere. I found a good place to get OOB without falling into the water, and made it all the way to where the unloaded room and elevator would be, but even at the appropriate height, you're just swimming through oblivion.

Annoying thing about that room, is on the right side, you can crawl beneath that thing to get a ration or something. There is one corner that WOULD allow for Grenade clipping, but when I push my back up to it, I just can't get Raiden to shift in order for me to do the clip, it's quite frustrating.

I smell something close. Happy hunting everyone

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2013-08-26 07:59:28 pm

TheThrillness: 2013-08-26 07:59:12 pm

TheThrillness: 2013-08-26 07:57:11 pm

TheThrillness: 2013-08-26 07:56:41 pm

TheThrillness: 2013-08-26 07:56:23 pm

2013-08-26 07:52:21 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Thanks for helping to look kakka.

A tanker skip is a funny one. You could potentially skip Olga as you said but the problem there is you won't have a Socom to bypass the lasers. You would need to find an OOB past the lasers. It might be possible.

Also that ration corner Magnum couldn't clip there either. It would work if you had a bit more space.

The big skip right now is the Strut E parcel room and those level 5 doors. There is actually a vent down there but it isn't close to the wall so clipping doesn't work. I'm sure there is a way to "keep" the clipping glitch or some variant of it to get inside vents not close to the wall. We then have the potential of a bomb freezing, Fatman, Fortune, Ames, Harrier, Johnson, Vamp and Sniping skip. There is a problem with that though, no Stinger for the Rays. If the skip does work one of two things needs to happen.

1. Game gives you it in the fight (highly unlikely but you never know until you try).
2. You'd need to actually play up until the Harrier, get the stinger and then do the skip.

Thanks for helping to look kakka.

A tanker skip is a funny one. You could potentially skip Olga as you said but the problem there is you won't have a Socom to bypass the lasers. You would need to find an OOB past the lasers. It might be possible.

Also that ration corner Magnum couldn't clip there either. It would work if you had a bit more space.

The big skip right now is the Strut E parcel room and those level 5 doors. There is actually a vent down there but it isn't close to the wall so clipping doesn't work. I'm sure there is a way to "keep" the clipping glitch or some variant of it to get inside vents not close to the wall. We then have the potential of a bomb freezing, Fatman, Fortune, Ames, Harrier, Johnson, Vamp and Sniping skip. There is a problem with that though, no Stinger for the Rays. If the skip does work one of two things needs to happen.

1. Game gives you it in the fight (highly unlikely but you never know until you try).
2. You'd need to actually play up until the Harrier, get the stinger and then do the skip.

Magnum66

2013-08-27 05:44:51 pm

http://twitch.tv/Exisidis2

I watched your twitch stream of you looking and giltch hunting Kakka, it's fun to see you checking as well and all your ideas. Smiley

I myself love glitch hunting, so I hope you keep at it and help us find something extraordinary.

squared64

2013-08-27 06:59:45 pm

The game will give you a fully loaded Stinger (and Nikita and RGB6 funnily enough) if you don't have a Stinger for the RAYs. I only tested it on Very Eady (by killing the Harrier through the Kasatka's support fire and an automatic weapon finish, but I expect it works on any difficulty. The item won't even physically appear, it'll just be inexplicably in your inventory for the fight.

TheThrillness

2013-08-27 07:05:35 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Quote from squared64:

The game will give you a fully loaded Stinger (and Nikita and RGB6 funnily enough) if you don't have a Stinger for the RAYs. I only tested it on Very Eady (by killing the Harrier through the Kasatka's support fire and an automatic weapon finish, but I expect it works on any difficulty. The item won't even physically appear, it'll just be inexplicably in your inventory for the fight.

I love you. That makes the level 5 door in Strut E the main priority now.

Magnum66

2013-08-27 09:01:14 pm

http://twitch.tv/Exisidis2

Quote from squared64:

The game will give you a fully loaded Stinger (and Nikita and RGB6 funnily enough) if you don't have a Stinger for the RAYs. I only tested it on Very Eady (by killing the Harrier through the Kasatka's support fire and an automatic weapon finish, but I expect it works on any difficulty. The item won't even physically appear, it'll just be inexplicably in your inventory for the fight.

Knew it!

Even more reason to keep at sequence breaks to shell 2 early. Smiley

kakka_rot

Edit history:

kakka_rot: 2013-08-28 09:57:44 pm

2013-08-27 11:24:11 pm

Remember your mantra.

TY ya'll for your kindness.

I enjoy having a co-commentatoron stream, so if anyone wants to hang out, that'd be welcomed and probably beneficial to our adventure.
Feel free to add my skype at youngmax206

Also

Quote from squared64:

The game will give you a fully loaded Stinger (and Nikita and RGB6 funnily enough) if you don't have a Stinger for the RAYs. I only tested it on Very Eady (by killing the Harrier through the Kasatka's support fire and an automatic weapon finish, but I expect it works on any difficulty. The item won't even physically appear, it'll just be inexplicably in your inventory for the fight.

^all of my joy