Megaman X8 100%

Jehuty

Edit history:

Jehuty: 2012-07-23 05:18:44 pm

Jehuty: 2012-07-23 05:18:12 pm

2012-07-23 02:46:42 pm

hey all, i'm new in SDA thumbsup

i wanna put a ner record for the mmx8 ps2 version with 100% item hunt.
now, the first try was in hard mode and i get 1:32... 3 minures more than the recent SDA but in hard mode
but if i fry in "normal-mode" like kremator [1:29], i'm pretty sure that i will impreve his record.

now, i foud 2 moments when the ultimate armor is useful for short time

if i use a controller code to unlock the armor, "But i only will use this armor for 10 second, when i need chargue the cristal attack", am i missing the rules of sda?
even if i unlock the ultimate armor, it wil be very weak because x won't have the chips equipped. so, this armor isn't more fast than icarus-armor or hermes armor.
the ultimate armor only is useful when the giga-attack is at the maxmium energy state. but I will not even use

this is exactly that i will do:
when i get the point to extract the chip with the other character (zero or axl), i will swith to ultimare armor; chargue the attack.. take the chip and switch again to zero..
Is it considered cheating?

Thread title:

hey all, i'm new in SDA :thumbsup:
i wanna put a ner record for the mmx8 ps2 version with 100% item hunt.
now, the first try was in hard mode and i get 1:32... 3 minures more than the recent SDA but in hard mode
but if i fry in "normal-mode" like kremator [1:29], i'm pretty sure that i will impreve his record.

[img]http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af38/sahailaway/SDA/rank.jpg[/img]

now, i foud 2 moments when the ultimate armor is useful for short time

[img]http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af38/sahailaway/SDA/chipp.jpg[/img]

if i use a controller code to unlock the armor, "But i only will use this armor for 10 second, when i need chargue the cristal attack", am i missing the rules of sda?
even if i unlock the ultimate armor, it wil be very weak because x won't have the chips equipped. so, this armor isn't more fast than icarus-armor or hermes armor.
the ultimate armor only is useful when the giga-attack is at the maxmium energy state. but I will not even use

this is exactly that i will do:
when i get the point to extract the chip with the other character (zero or axl), i will swith to ultimare armor; chargue the attack.. take the chip and switch again to zero.. 
Is it considered cheating?

Exo

2012-07-23 03:20:46 pm

Sandbagging

Yup.

Jehuty

Edit history:

Jehuty: 2012-07-23 05:31:16 pm

Jehuty: 2012-07-23 05:30:09 pm

Jehuty: 2012-07-23 05:27:40 pm

2012-07-23 05:24:16 pm

then, use the navigators is allowed?,
there's no advantage
there's no cheat
for example: Alia can't use any armor or chargue any special weapon, she is weaker then X
Layer is even weaker than zero because her armor have a less hit-box
and pallet is just like axel... no more.

Jehuty

Edit history:

Jehuty: 2012-07-28 10:54:52 am

2012-07-28 10:54:32 am

it's allowed?

Exo

2012-07-28 10:56:05 am

Sandbagging

Alternate costumes are only allowed if they don't change any game mechanics.

Jehuty

2012-08-02 12:18:09 am

I'm glad of that :D,
in effect, navigators do not alter the game, I'm almost done the game.
I lack only 3 levels, took a lead of 3 minutes.
but now I have a doubt, note that "residentevil4" there are several categories,
I can call my SDA "100% best time + AAA rank"?
obviously my final time will be shorter than the recent "100% best time".
but i will complete the game with the best hunter rank.
like in (RE4) are the categories (Normal Weapons & Special Weapons)
Maybe in MMX8 can be (ANY hunter Rank & AAA Rank)

Itsu de Mo

Edit history:

Itsu de Mo: 2012-08-02 03:27:30 am

2012-08-02 03:25:51 am

Arrested for felony abuse of emotes

Quote from Exo:

Alternate costumes are only allowed if they don't change any game mechanics.

Quote from sahailaway:

for example: Alia can't use any armor or chargue any special weapon, she is weaker then X
Layer is even weaker than zero because her armor have a less hit-box
and pallet is just like axel... no more.

Quote from sahailaway:

Alia can't use any armor or chargue any special weapon, she is weaker then X
Layer is even weaker than zero because her armor have a less hit-box
and pallet is just like axel... no more.

That is changed game mechanics. They most likely would not be allowed.

That's how it appears to me, but I could be overruled by someone else.

UraniumAnchor

2012-08-02 04:47:19 am

Not a walrus

At best it would be considering an alternate character, but since you can switch characters during the run I'm pretty sure this wouldn't apply there. So it's more like category bloat.

Should get somebody like Satoryu to weigh in since he's actually done a run, though.

Satoryu

2012-08-02 11:55:58 am

Visually Appealing

The Navigators are basically nerfed versions of the characters, so there's really no point in using them unless you were doing a low% run or something. And that's mostly concerning Alia. If Layer's hitbox is smaller, there's no advantage to using her, so just use Zero. As for Pallette, she can't copy enemies like Axl can, so that hurts her in a few situations.

I am curious to see how OP is annihilating the times for this game.

Terribleno

2012-08-02 12:18:32 pm

Using the navigators does give one bonus, though. All in-stage cutscenes are skipped entirely, although Vile's "hahahahaahahah!" when he traps you in the last stage is still there. It would go faster than mashing on start to skip them, but would the time gained overweigh the losses Satoryu has pointed out?

Jehuty

Edit history:

Jehuty: 2012-08-02 05:29:43 pm

Jehuty: 2012-08-02 05:21:19 pm

Jehuty: 2012-08-02 05:04:38 pm

2012-08-02 03:11:16 pm

Yes, if the run with alia, paller or layer is fast enough, the time gained overweight the losses.
but if gained some seconds, those are not over 30s
But, I could not use the navigators in all stages.
1° in 7 of 8 stages are armor for x. only x can take them.
2° in 3 stages axl must be in the team for his copy chip [Burn Ruster, Pandamonium and Dark Mantis]
then, at the last i only use navigators to defeat 3 mavericks.

and wow I am honored to be guided by Satoryu in my first sda, I saw your sda over and over again
at last, i changued the order of the stages:

1 Gravity Antonion
2 Back to Noah's park
3 Burn Ruster
4 Earthrock Trilobyte
5 Escape to lab in Troya base with the chip
6 Back to Primrose
7 Gigavolt Manowar [Layer and Alia ]
8 Back to burn ruster stage with the hammer
9 Bamboo Pandamonium
10 Defeat Optic sunflower [Pallet and Alia]
11 Avalanche Yeti [X and Layer]
12 Dark Mantis

this is a segment of my sda.
step 10

Yes, if the run with alia, paller or layer is fast enough, the time gained overweight the losses.
but if gained some seconds, those are not over 30s
But, I could not use the navigators in all stages.
1° in 7 of 8 stages are armor for x. only x can take them.
2° in 3 stages axl must be in the team for his copy chip [Burn Ruster, Pandamonium and Dark Mantis]
then, at the last i only use navigators to defeat 3 mavericks.

and wow I am honored to be guided by Satoryu in my first sda, I saw your sda over and over again
at last, i changued the order of the stages:

1     Gravity Antonion
2     Back to Noah's park
3     Burn Ruster
4     Earthrock Trilobyte
5     Escape to lab in Troya base with the chip
6     Back to Primrose
7     Gigavolt Manowar [Layer and Alia ]
8     Back to burn ruster stage with the hammer
9     Bamboo Pandamonium
10   Defeat Optic sunflower [Pallet and Alia]
11   Avalanche Yeti [X and Layer]
12   Dark Mantis

this is a segment of my sda. 
step 10

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak4y3K_qwSE&feature=youtu.be[/url]

Satoryu

2012-08-02 05:44:13 pm

Visually Appealing

Okay. That was really good. I forgot how broken Blast Launcher is. Only things I have a problem with:

- Axl moves slower than X and Zero. I assume the same goes for Palette. Would it be worth it to switch to Alia inbetween rooms?
- Getting EXF when you have a weakness available wastes a lot of time. You should only do them when you can't one shot them after their desperation attack.

In a case like that stage, using navigators didn't really make a difference at all. I guess we could allow them. And the cutscenes still play a little bit, so there's no big advantage there.

Jehuty

Edit history:

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 12:54:16 am

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 12:53:24 am

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 12:47:22 am

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 12:46:34 am

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 12:44:50 am

Jehuty: 2012-08-02 10:56:37 pm

2012-08-02 10:48:34 pm

switch in the door not worth it,i just did it to show the glitch front a door,
at last is just the "Same final time"

and EXF wastes time, but this is what I save for someday if i wanna minimize the time once again.
I just finished an hour ago the SDA
the final time is: 1:25
but this sda must be in a new categor in order to retain the other speedruns
[best time 100% aaa rank. Undecided

]
and all stages have [No damage Clear] + EXF
maybe this extra stats wil save my speedrun in the future Huh?

Mystery

2012-08-03 05:18:36 am

There is no 100% AAA rank category. There is only Low%/Any%/100% + Easy/Normal/Hard.
If getting a lesser rank saves time, then you should ignore the rank.

Jehuty

2012-08-03 07:11:51 pm

maybe in a future speedrun i will ignore the rank,
but for now i could improve the recent record with aaa rank ^^
then... Who is responsible for creating the category?
residentevil4 has many
megaman x8 always have these two?
Best time
Best 100% time

if i submit my speed run, the older will be delete? Huh?

UraniumAnchor

2012-08-03 07:13:40 pm

Not a walrus

If you don't waste time trying to get rank when it won't do you any good, then yes.

Jehuty

2012-08-03 07:32:09 pm

noup, i don't waste any second in get aaa rank. the evidence is that I did it in less time
the current 100% time is 1:29
i did it in 1:25
may seem a silly thing. but I did that for not cause the delete of the current record, becaus is really good too.

Well, i guess i'm ready to start the encode.

Rakuen

Edit history:

Rakuen: 2012-08-04 12:11:55 am

2012-08-03 07:39:35 pm

Weegee Time

Quote from sahailaway:

noup, i don't waste any second in get aaa rank. the evidence is that I did it in less time
the current 100% time is 1:29
i did it in 1:25
may seem a silly thing. but I did that for not cause the delete of the current record, becaus is really good too.

Actually, your run can be rejected for poor play quality even if you beat the current SDA time. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. I think X8 times to the minute? If it does and getting the EXF takes enough time to roll it to the next minute, it's a potential ground for rejection. And even if it's not rejected, someone could just do it without them to obsolete your run.

Jehuty

Edit history:

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 08:29:32 pm

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 08:21:57 pm

2012-08-03 07:43:43 pm

so, who can tell me if my video can be rejected? Huh?

is this segment a poor play quality?

Rakuen

2012-08-03 08:37:30 pm

Weegee Time

You play well but your EX finish blows 8-10 seconds. Doing that over the course of the run is a full minute, easy. Since this game is timed to the minute mark for SDA, it could possibly cost you two. Don't use the EX finish unless it will save you time. I'm not familiar enough with the game at high level play to know when or if that happens, especially for a segmented run.

Jehuty

Edit history:

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 10:09:02 pm

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 10:07:43 pm

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 10:06:31 pm

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 09:45:25 pm

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 09:42:07 pm

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 09:41:59 pm

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 09:41:58 pm

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 09:10:46 pm

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 09:09:27 pm

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 09:01:46 pm

Jehuty: 2012-08-03 08:58:41 pm

2012-08-03 08:55:05 pm

is certainly less than one minute
analyzed frame by frame:
A boss with EXF requires 46 seconds
boss without EXF requires 42 seconds, but with this method, there is exposure to make a mistake and lose even more seconds.
the boss can't be defeated in one step because it loses vulnerability to 8 hits, and if he make a strong attack, such as gravity antonion: when he attack with his pillar There are two options.
1- dodge the attack and wait for their new vulnerability
2- let him hit you, and attack after the hunter react "in this game take damage wastes time"

unfortunately for me, i have completely finished speed run Undecided

and I improved the current record for 4 minutes.
even if one ignores in the future the EXF, I doubt that exceeds my final time 1:25

then ... if someone don't use the ride armor to defeat Bamboo pandamonium is making a poor speed run?
even if take or not the armor is optional?

.

UraniumAnchor

Edit history:

UraniumAnchor: 2012-08-03 11:04:12 pm

2012-08-03 11:03:33 pm

Not a walrus

Quote from sahailaway:

A boss with EXF requires 46 seconds
boss without EXF requires 42 seconds, but with this method, there is exposure to make a mistake and lose even more seconds.

This is what we would call a 'safe strat'. It's not necessarily grounds for rejection, but it tends to be frowned upon, especially in a segmented run, depending on just how risky the alternative is.

Rakuen

Edit history:

Rakuen: 2012-08-04 12:22:09 am

2012-08-04 12:13:02 am

Weegee Time

Quote from sahailaway:

A boss with EXF requires 46 seconds
boss without EXF requires 42 seconds, but with this method, there is exposure to make a mistake and lose even more seconds.
the boss can't be defeated in one step because it loses vulnerability to 8 hits

You can do 7 hits then pile the weakness on for 8 damage getting a total of 15, right? You did 5 hits plus weakness then 2 hits later. If you'd done it all at once I think you would have ended the fight right there instead of waiting for another cycle. It would save an additional 8 seconds. For the Optic Sunflower fight I think I counted 12 bars which should also be doable in a single cycle. If I'm off on this please let me know. It's been a while since I've played.

We're not going to say you can't submit; you're free to do as you wish. If you are well and truly satisfied with your run then go for it, more power to you. 4 minutes is a sizeable improvement for a run this length and it would probably make it through. You play very well though, so let's see you do the best you can do. Smiley

[quote="sahailaway"]A  boss  with  EXF requires 46 seconds
boss without  EXF requires 42 seconds, but with this method, there is exposure to make a mistake and lose even more seconds.
the boss can't be defeated in one step because it loses vulnerability to 8 hits[/quote]
You can do 7 hits then pile the weakness on for 8 damage getting a total of 15, right?  You did 5 hits plus weakness then 2 hits later.  If you'd done it all at once I think you would have ended the fight right there instead of waiting for another cycle.  It would save an additional 8 seconds.  For the Optic Sunflower fight I think I counted 12 bars which should also be doable in a single cycle.  If I'm off on this please let me know.  It's been a while since I've played.

We're not going to say you can't submit; you're free to do as you wish.  If you are well and truly satisfied with your run then go for it, more power to you.  4 minutes is a sizeable improvement for a run this length and it would probably make it through.  You play very well though, so let's see you do the best you can do. :)

Jehuty

Edit history:

Jehuty: 2012-08-04 10:52:18 am

Jehuty: 2012-08-04 10:50:42 am

Jehuty: 2012-08-04 10:48:11 am

Jehuty: 2012-08-04 10:47:02 am

2012-08-04 10:43:28 am

the combo is really misleading.
for example the sigma blade:
with it you can get off in some cases 8 hp with 1 hit single, but that does not allow the head a combo of 3 hits in a boss battle. "8x3=24 hp lost is not allowed for a boss"
when the boss has lost [7 of hp], he only allows "1 hit more"
for that reason the combo is 5 hits.
4hp with recharged buster + 3 hp with normal bullets = 7 hp in 4 hits. Then i take the opportunity to punch it with the special weapon giving additional damage. (5 Hits in the first step)
but for the next step, 7! hp is lost in advance, rason for that combo can not be done... then i hit with a special weapon again.
if y try make a combo only the first bullet damage.
no matter if I change character, a combo of 15 hits is not possible neither is possible to bypass the barriers when the boss is wrapped in fire to prepare the next attack...
The only way is the ultimate armor, but is not allowed by rules, I ask that at first jeje Tongue

and after several attempts, which I think publishing is a single-segment
the only save is just when i defeat Lumine.

and i compared my boss battle with Satoryu's method, and he also minimum required 42 seconds even with a armor of x.
Satoryu has the recent best 100% time in sda 1:29

the combo is really misleading. 
for example the sigma blade:
with it you can get off in some cases 8 hp with 1 hit single, but that does not allow the head a combo of 3 hits in a boss battle. "8x3=24 hp lost is not allowed for a boss"
when the boss has lost [7 of hp], he  only allows "1 hit more"
for that reason the combo is 5 hits.
4hp with recharged buster + 3 hp with normal bullets = 7 hp in 4 hits. Then i take the opportunity to punch it with the special weapon giving additional damage. (5 Hits in the first step)
but for the next step, 7! hp is lost in advance, rason for that combo can not be done... then i hit with a special weapon again.
if y try make a combo only the first bullet  damage.
no matter if I change character, a combo of 15 hits is not possible neither is possible to bypass the barriers when the boss is wrapped in fire to prepare the next attack... 
The only way is the ultimate armor, but is not allowed by rules, I ask that at first jeje :P

and after several attempts, which I think publishing is a single-segment
the only save is just when i defeat Lumine.

and i compared my boss battle with Satoryu's method, and he also minimum required 42 seconds even with a armor of x.
Satoryu has the recent best 100% time in sda 1:29

Satoryu

2012-08-04 04:05:27 pm

Visually Appealing

I've been watching some of your videos. You have a lot of great ideas that cut off time for both any% and 100% runs.

However, I noticed your load times were different from mine, and you seemed to lag in different spots. Could it be the PS2 you're using?

And the video you used for comparing doing EXF versus not is not good. Trilobyte is the worst example to show boss weaknesses for cause damage works a bit different with him. He should've been dead immediately after the desperation move, but he had a tiny bit of HP left.