Marathon Speed run

2008-04-12 12:21:25 am

My first run is finally completed! It is the first level of Marathon Durandal Waterloo Waterpark, and is available as a Aleph One film. Download it here:

http://www.pfhorums.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=1527

Please suggest any improvement, and/or post your run of the level if you know that it's better than mine.

cortez

2008-04-21 07:21:47 pm

Stalker!

Quote:

My first run is finally completed! It is the first level of Marathon Durandal Waterloo Waterpark, and is available as a Aleph One film. Download it here:

http://www.pfhorums.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=1527

Please suggest any improvement, and/or post your run of the level if you know that it's better than mine.

maybe you could post your run somewhere where you dont have to register to see it.

Idkbutlike2

2008-05-03 04:53:46 pm

I am reviving this thread, having gotten my hands on the Windows port of Marathon Durandal! Grin

CMiller

Edit history:

CMiller: 2008-05-08 12:46:39 am

2008-05-08 12:43:46 am

I've done a marathon Infinity Speedrun.

http://www.archive.org/details/MarathonInfinity

I also have the film files if you'd like those. I did it in Marathon Infinity 1.5 for Mac, and the films DO NOT sync in aleph one by the way.

Also, Marathon 1 and it's aleph one port are extremely different in terms of gameplay physics and monster AI. I know, because I've been working on a marathon 1 run for a few years now.

Idkbutlike2

Edit history:

Idkbutlike2: 2008-05-08 02:17:55 am

2008-05-08 02:16:34 am

*Claps and Cheers* Grin

BTW, how did you get the game to run so fast?

Idkbutlike2

2008-05-08 02:23:54 am

Quote:

I've done a marathon Infinity Speedrun.

http://www.archive.org/details/MarathonInfinity

I also have the film files if you'd like those. I did it in Marathon Infinity 1.5 for Mac, and the films DO NOT sync in aleph one by the way.

Also, Marathon 1 and it's aleph one port are extremely different in terms of gameplay physics and monster AI. I know, because I've been working on a marathon 1 run for a few years now.

Well, in my case (I am doing a Marathon Durandal run), Aleph One can run the physics of the PC version of Marathon Durandal. As for enemy AI, doesn't seem much different...

CMiller

2008-05-08 01:47:14 pm

I was referring to Marathon 1, the first game. It's substantially different than its Aleph one port.

Idkbutlike2

2008-05-08 07:53:21 pm

OK, phew.... I'm using the Aleph One version of Durandal to run it, the old one just runs too slow on my PC...

CMiller

2008-05-15 03:27:38 pm

If anybody's interested in a run of Marathon 1, I've nearly completed it. It's looking to be around an hour on Total Carnage.

soteos

2008-05-15 10:33:04 pm

I'll be looking forward to it. Especially on total carnage.

Idkbutlike2

2008-05-16 09:04:24 pm

Good Job

Idkbutlike2

2008-05-21 06:27:20 pm

Any runs in? :-?

Idkbutlike2

2008-06-23 07:16:14 pm

Trying to keep this thread alive, please send some runs in...

Nobility

Edit history:

Nobility: 2012-08-25 01:20:23 am

Nobility: 2012-08-25 01:20:13 am

Nobility: 2012-08-18 04:19:02 pm

Nobility: 2012-08-14 02:04:16 am

Nobility: 2012-08-14 02:04:05 am

Nobility: 2012-08-13 06:02:11 am

Nobility: 2012-08-13 05:58:41 am

Nobility: 2012-08-12 08:07:19 pm

Nobility: 2012-08-12 08:07:05 pm

2012-08-12 03:44:59 am

Good news to those who are still active in this thread: I am currently doing a Durandal run on the 360, single-segmented. The game is definitely doable under an hour WITH errors, from my experience. I plan on recording practice times and I'll make sure to report back here with what I got. Hopefully some Marathon runners are still out there.

EDIT: Did my fourth timed run for Durandal on Kindergarten and got 0:36:46. This was on the 360, but I'm not sure if that matters.

EDIT #2: For "100%" in Marathon, how about we count that as reading ALL terminals in one playthough? Sounds like it could be interesting and challenging seeing how it would require completely new planning for the routes you take.

BlueGlass

2015-09-29 03:39:55 pm

Yep yep yep!

So, I just made a KB page for the series. Still incomplete, as I've only gone over general stuff and M1, and a good bit of it is based on my personal opinions and preferences. I'll go back and add M2 and Infinity later; they weren't as much of a priority, since runs exist for them (if there is one for M1, I certainly can't find it).

If any Marathoners want to drop in and add/change stuff, please do!

Responding to Nobility's three-year-old suggestion for "100%": While interesting in theory, it's simply too arbitrary. Some terminals have multiple messages, would we need to read all of them? Other times, several different terminals have the same message, would we just read one of those and call it done? The only thing close to a 100% category would be an "all levels" run of Infinity (in my mind, this would mean Confound Delivery replaces Two for the Price of One, and if a co-op run is ever done it would need to complete Robot World Arena (I have a theory that this map may actually be possible if TASing in single player using a perfect rocket jump)).

So, I just made a KB page for the series.  Still incomplete, as I've only gone over general stuff and M1, and a good bit of it is based on my personal opinions and preferences.  I'll go back and add M2 and Infinity later; they weren't as much of a priority, since runs exist for them (if there is one for M1, I certainly can't find it).

If any Marathoners want to drop in and add/change stuff, please do!

Responding to Nobility's three-year-old suggestion for "100%":  While interesting in theory, it's simply too arbitrary.  Some terminals have multiple messages, would we need to read all of them?  Other times, several different terminals have the same message, would we just read one of those and call it done?  The only thing close to a 100% category would be an "all levels" run of Infinity (in my mind, this would mean Confound Delivery replaces Two for the Price of One, and if a co-op run is ever done it would need to complete Robot World Arena (I have a theory that this map may actually be possible if TASing in single player using a perfect rocket jump)).

aperturegrillz

2016-06-13 02:39:20 pm

I've loved Marathon since I was little and been looking into running it. This seems to be the least outdated thread about it. The only run of M1 I can find is a run on Kindergarten in 30:40 by Fennecey (played on Aleph One, not the original game), which he posted on the game's speedrun.com page: https://www.twitch.tv/fennecey/v/51308360

As CMiller mentioned 8 years ago, Aleph One does not have the same physics as Marathon 1 so times won't really be comparable. I have a setup for playing the original game on a Mac, so I've been trying to check if the same strats work. The most notable time-save is the long grenade jump up the infamous big elevator room in "Colony Ship For Sale, Cheap" (at 13:43 in the above VOD). At first I thought it wasn't possible, but just today I was able to pull it off on the original game - will have to practice it a lot to figure out how to do it consistently, though. I have capture set up for the game and can make a video of how to do it later. I sent Fennecey a Twitch DM a while ago to see if he could give me any insight into the game but I haven't gotten a response yet.

If anyone at all is still interested in running these games I'd love to hear about it. I'm interested in doing M2 as well as it's my favorite game in the series.

I've loved Marathon since I was little and been looking into running it. This seems to be the least outdated thread about it. The only run of M1 I can find is a run on Kindergarten in 30:40 by Fennecey (played on Aleph One, not the original game), which he posted on the game's [url=http://www.speedrun.com/Marathon#Beat_the_game_Kindergarten1]speedrun.com page[/url]: https://www.twitch.tv/fennecey/v/51308360

As CMiller mentioned 8 years ago, Aleph One does not have the same physics as Marathon 1 so times won't really be comparable. I have a setup for playing the original game on a Mac, so I've been trying to check if the same strats work. The most notable time-save is the long grenade jump up the infamous big elevator room in "Colony Ship For Sale, Cheap" (at 13:43 in the above VOD). At first I thought it wasn't possible, but just today I was able to pull it off on the original game - will have to practice it a lot to figure out how to do it consistently, though. I have capture set up for the game and can make a video of how to do it later. I sent Fennecey a Twitch DM a while ago to see if he could give me any insight into the game but I haven't gotten a response yet.

If anyone at all is still interested in running these games I'd love to hear about it. I'm interested in doing M2 as well as it's my favorite game in the series.

aperturegrillz

2016-06-17 06:05:11 pm

BlueGlass, I checked out the KB page, thanks for putting together all that info. The required polygons for the exploration levels will be particularly useful. I already updated one thing which is that Cool Fusion does not require exploring the room the fusion pistol is on, you can just do the wall climb straight away and run to the end terminal. At least on Kindergarten I think this is faster than going and getting the fusion pistol, if you really need one you can grab one of the ones in a later level.

Amart

2016-06-19 01:32:34 pm

This thread got me interested in Marathon speedrunning! I'm not too familiar with Marathon 1 and 3, but I did put a decent amount of time into the Xbox 360 Marathon Durandal port (very fun game, indeed). I really like Nobility's idea of running through an entire Marathon game while reading every terminal. At one point, I memorized where every terminal was located in Durandal, but I'll have to re-learn the game as it has been several years since the last time I played it. In regards to terminals with multiple messages, I don't think you should be required to read every message. Just read the first message and exit out. We can simply call it an "All Terminals" speedrun. I wouldn't mind doing a speedrun like that.

I don't have a Mac, but I am curious to know if the tricks seen in Nobility's Any% Durandal speedrun on the Xbox 360 can be replicated on the Mac version. It appears than some of the hover jumps won't work on the Aleph One port. Look forward to seeing more Marathon speedruns! Smiley

This thread got me interested in Marathon speedrunning!  I'm not too familiar with Marathon 1 and 3, but I did put a decent amount of time into the Xbox 360 Marathon Durandal port (very fun game, indeed).  I really like Nobility's idea of running through an entire Marathon game while reading every terminal.  At one point, I memorized where every terminal was located in Durandal, but I'll have to re-learn the game as it has been several years since the last time I played it.  In regards to terminals with multiple messages, I don't think you should be required to read every message.  Just read the first message and exit out.  We can simply call it an "All Terminals" speedrun.  I wouldn't mind doing a speedrun like that.

I don't have a Mac, but I am curious to know if the tricks seen in Nobility's Any% Durandal speedrun on the Xbox 360 can be replicated on the Mac version.  It appears than some of the hover jumps won't work on the Aleph One port.  Look forward to seeing more Marathon speedruns! :)

aperturegrillz

2016-06-19 10:01:20 pm

Quote from Amart:

This thread got me interested in Marathon speedrunning! I'm not too familiar with Marathon 1 and 3, but I did put a decent amount of time into the Xbox 360 Marathon Durandal port (very fun game, indeed). I really like Nobility's idea of running through an entire Marathon game while reading every terminal. At one point, I memorized where every terminal was located in Durandal, but I'll have to re-learn the game as it has been several years since the last time I played it. In regards to terminals with multiple messages, I don't think you should be required to read every message. Just read the first message and exit out. We can simply call it an "All Terminals" speedrun. I wouldn't mind doing a speedrun like that.

I'm not sure how much sense this would make considering there are two terminals in All Roads Lead To Sol that are mutually exclusive - if you reach one, you can't reach the other.

Amart

Edit history:

Amart: 2016-06-20 02:39:06 am

Amart: 2016-06-20 02:18:15 am

2016-06-20 01:54:52 am

That just shows how much I know about Marathon Durandal! Smiley

If that's the case, then we can make an exception (just like how some exceptions need to be made with UV Max Doom speedruns. In a UV Max speedrun, a player doesn't need to attain 100% secrets in Industrial Zone since one secret is impossible to trigger without cheats). There is an Xbox 360 achievement called "Hats off to 819" that requires the player to find every terminal in Durandal (at least that's what the achievement guides say). I unlocked the achievement once for myself, and I later helped a few people attain that achievement through co-op. Perhaps it's possible to read every terminal in All Roads Lead To Sol on the Xbox 360 version, but not on the Mac version? Like I said, it has been several years since the last time I played this game, and I don't recall exactly what I did to unlock the "Hats off to 819" achievement. I'll need to pay the Xbox 360 version another visit.

Would you agree that a "Terminal" speedrun would be fun to watch? Tongue

Edit: Here is a terminal video guide for All Roads Lead To Sol

The player reads the secret Bungie terminal and the end terminal in one playthrough.

That just shows how much I know about Marathon Durandal! :)

If that's the case, then we can make an exception (just like how some exceptions need to be made with UV Max Doom speedruns.  In a UV Max speedrun, a player doesn't need to attain 100% secrets in Industrial Zone since one secret is impossible to trigger without cheats).  There is an Xbox 360 achievement called "Hats off to 819" that requires the player to find every terminal in Durandal (at least that's what the achievement guides say).  I unlocked the achievement once for myself, and I later helped a few people attain that achievement through co-op.  Perhaps it's possible to read every terminal in All Roads Lead To Sol on the Xbox 360 version, but not on the Mac version?  Like I said, it has been several years since the last time I played this game, and I don't recall exactly what I did to unlock the "Hats off to 819" achievement.  I'll need to pay the Xbox 360 version another visit.

Would you agree that a "Terminal" speedrun would be fun to watch? :P

Edit: Here is a terminal video guide for All Roads Lead To Sol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m92JYCj0Aw

The player reads the secret Bungie terminal and the end terminal in one playthrough.

aperturegrillz

2016-06-20 01:16:32 pm

Huh, OK. I'd just read somewhere that it wasn't possible to reach both but never tried to verify that myself. Maybe I'll check it out and see if I can

I'm still not sure how fun an all-terminals run would be to watch, because I don't think it would vary enough from the any% route and it would be hard to verify that you hadn't missed one, like in the rooms of a couple levels that have a half dozen s'pht terminals packed together. It seems sort of like the "all map squares" run for Super Metroid, which isn't a very serious category, but even less verifiable.

Here's another idea: what about an "all levels vidmastered" run? Where you start each level with alt + cmd + begin new game (and play on Total Carnage of course Smiley

)

Amart

2016-06-20 06:22:05 pm

I suppose that you are right. While I wouldn't mind doing a "Terminal" speedrun, I can imagine it being hard for verifiers to validate the run. Thanks for your input. Speaking of the two terminals in All Roads Lead To Sol, it appears that they are mutually exclusive on difficulties higher than Kindergarten according to this page: http://marathon.bungie.org/vidmaster/vidtipallroads.html. I'd still like to try it out for myself on some of the higher difficulties to be sure.

The "All Levels Vidmastered" speedrun category sounds pretty hardcore! Would the player also have to eliminate all of the Bobs and punch all of the switches?! Tongue

I would consider giving it a shot, but I think it would be a good idea to work on a regular Total Carnage speedrun before attempting something as hardcore as a Vidmaster speedrun. Has anybody ever recorded a Marathon 2: Durandal Total Carnage speedrun in the first place? Cheers.

aperturegrillz

Edit history:

aperturegrillz: 2016-06-22 03:05:47 am

aperturegrillz: 2016-06-21 10:35:14 pm

2016-06-21 09:45:47 pm

Been adding stuff to the Marathon 1 section of the knowledge base page. Just put up a video demonstrating the Colony Ship grenade climb. This is partially for my own benefit as I'm still not very consistent at it. Planning on making more showing how to do the other major skips.

EDIT: here's another video for the Blaspheme Quarantine skip.
EDIT2: realized from rewatching Fennecey's video that there's a better way to do the second Blaspheme Quarantine jump.

aperturegrillz

Edit history:

aperturegrillz: 2016-06-23 09:55:11 pm

2016-06-23 09:46:37 pm

Finished my first run, M1 Kindergarten in 38:35. Took a bunch of safety saves and had to retry a few tricks a couple of times, but overall it went okay.

EDIT: messed up and had a failed attempt at the beginning of the highlight - it's fixed now.

aperturegrillz

Edit history:

aperturegrillz: 2016-06-30 06:26:33 pm

2016-06-28 09:05:01 pm

Got a better time, 37:11: https://www.twitch.tv/aperturegrillz/v/75148076

Still a lot bad parts, the worst of which is that I had to reload my save on Colony Ship For Sale, Cheap after failing the grenade climb through the pillars room - my least favorite part of the run by far.

I discovered today that you can AR fly to the ending terminal in that level with 4-5 grenades, but it's pretty inconsistent so I don't think I'll try it in runs just yet.

EDIT: I discovered a few other things about the game recently which are... interesting.

One is that all the shots in the game have semi-random damage - they have some base value, and then a random additional amount of damage. For instance, a grenade does 80 base damage plus up to 20 more (one bar of health is 150 points). From experimentation, it appears that the amount of knockback a shot does is proportional to how much damage it dealt, which means that how much height you get from a grenade jump is actually semi-random! This helps explain why the Colony Ship climb is hard to do consistently.

The other thing I found out is that, according to the Pfhorte Handbook (I need to test this myself), 'Extermination' levels can be completed with up to 8 enemies left alive on the map. This explains why I've been able to finish The Rose and Pfhoraphobia without actually killing everything. Unfortunately, the spawns on each level are semi-random so I think it'll be hard to fully exploit this.

Got a better time, 37:11: https://www.twitch.tv/aperturegrillz/v/75148076

Still a lot bad parts, the worst of which is that I had to reload my save on Colony Ship For Sale, Cheap after failing the grenade climb through the pillars room - my least favorite part of the run by far.

I discovered today that you can AR fly to the ending terminal in that level with 4-5 grenades, but it's pretty inconsistent so I don't think I'll try it in runs just yet.

EDIT: I discovered a few other things about the game recently which are... interesting.

One is that all the shots in the game have semi-random damage - they have some base value, and then a random additional amount of damage. For instance, a grenade does 80 base damage plus up to 20 more (one bar of health is 150 points). From experimentation, it appears that the amount of knockback a shot does is proportional to how much damage it dealt, which means that how much height you get from a grenade jump is actually semi-random! This helps explain why the Colony Ship climb is hard to do consistently.

The other thing I found out is that, according to the Pfhorte Handbook (I need to test this myself), 'Extermination' levels can be completed with up to 8 enemies left alive on the map. This explains why I've been able to finish The Rose and Pfhoraphobia without actually killing everything. Unfortunately, the spawns on each level are semi-random so I think it'll be hard to fully exploit this.