Majora's Mask General Discussion

2009-07-07 04:23:05 pm

Soulcal are you planning on doing an any% run? I've been planning on doing one for a while now, ever since bottle dupe was discovered I had to scrap attempting a SS run and I'm gonna try the segmented. Now your route looks almost identical to the one I posted :P. SoDT shouldn't be played at all, I believe. Also you should be able to get sticks for Gomess and Garo Master. I'm actually in the process of refining the route I made and I'm probably going to use it.

Deku Palace only takes 2 Chus, it's why I used the extra chu for a superslide > ESS in lost woods. I don't think deku nuts are all that necessary for Garo Master, since he's pretty quick even without them.

SoulCalibrII

2009-07-07 04:33:05 pm

Yeah, I'm working on the any% run, and I've started to record my first couple of segments. I'll probably create a segment, upload it to youtube, see what you all think, then move onto the next segment. Grunz's run was about 2.5 hours. With bottle dupe and the boss key skips, do you think we can get sub 2hours?

And I didn't know you had already created an any% route Jiano. What are our route differences? Where can we get Sticks and Nuts? How do you beat Garo Master fast w/o nuts?

Jiano

Edit history:

Jiano: 2009-07-07 04:45:16 pm

2009-07-07 04:40:12 pm

Quote from SoulCalibrII:

Yeah, I'm working on the any% run, and I've started to record my first couple of segments. I'll probably create a segment, upload it to youtube, see what you all think, then move onto the next segment. Grunz's run was about 2.5 hours. With bottle dupe and the boss key skips, do you think we can get sub 2hours?

And I didn't know you had already created an any% route Jiano. What are our route differences? Where can we get Sticks and Nuts? How do you beat Garo Master fast w/o nuts?

Ok then, just letting you know you'll be competing with me, and I will be using megaflips and the n64.

For Garo Master, just sidehop to dodge then jumpslash.

I don't think sub 2 hours is possible, it should be close, though.

Suddoman

2009-07-07 04:44:24 pm

Quote from SoulCalibrII:

Yeah, I'm working on the any% run, and I've started to record my first couple of segments. I'll probably create a segment, upload it to youtube, see what you all think, then move onto the next segment. Grunz's run was about 2.5 hours. With bottle dupe and the boss key skips, do you think we can get sub 2hours?

And I didn't know you had already created an any% route Jiano. What are our route differences? Where can we get Sticks and Nuts? How do you beat Garo Master fast w/o nuts?

Lullaby Skip too? That should get sub 2 hours. I think.

SoulCalibrII

2009-07-07 09:48:24 pm

Also compared to Grunz's run: No Glided Sword, no getting LoT Goron Mask or Goron Race, no bottle from alien battle, boss key skips in 2 dungeons, and megahover (which I finally learned to do!!! :))

I'm playing the GCN port again and I'm noticing several places with lag in the run, especially in Clocktown for some reason... Does the original N64 game lag that badly? I play this on emulator and there is never lag, but I'm assuming it is the emulator. What about the Virtual Console port? Which would you all think is the best, least laggy, "version" of the game?

Enterim

2009-07-07 11:17:43 pm

The GCN version should lag considerably less if you turn rumble off, I've noticed.

UchihaSasuke

2009-07-08 12:06:56 am

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

the VC version runs well in the main clocktown.
the GCN one lags badly because of bad emulation.

Slowking

2009-07-08 04:22:12 pm

The Emulator was made for OoT and they just stuck the MM-rom in there. No wonder it works really really badly.

MrSparkle

2009-07-08 06:09:34 pm

Doin Good

Sure thats not random speculation? I'm not saying thats not the case, but it could simply be a matter of CPU speed and related factors...

Slowking

2009-07-08 07:23:11 pm

Gamecube is more than capable to emulate MM. You can see it has no problem with OoT and that just uses less RAM. The Cube has more than enough RAM to handle it however.
Even if it was lack of resources, that would explain slowdowns, but not the freezes. That's just bad emulation.
Just wait till the homebrew n64 emulator for the Cube gets better and you will see. Wink

Jiano

Edit history:

Jiano: 2009-07-09 07:18:26 pm

2009-07-09 12:46:34 am

Did a test run on emulator and got 1:55, so I guess I was wrong and sub 2 is definitely doable.

Edit: My routes finished and I'm getting this show on the road. Segment 1

Tp_Fox

Edit history:

Tp_Fox: 2009-07-09 09:07:07 pm

2009-07-09 07:41:23 pm

Q(O_o)Q

Nice.

Me and Jiano just confirmed that VC loads faster. Well at least for segment one, we're not sure about other segments.

Edit: Segment 1 of a 100% run in the making

Don't expect any more segments for a long long time. I still need to plan a route and finish my TP run. Apparently the time is 5:19.

Jiano

2009-07-09 11:05:40 pm

Here's Segment 2 Part 1 and Segment 2 Part 2.

SoulCalibrII

2009-07-10 12:10:33 am

Jiano, are you running the VC port or the original N64 game? Nice segs btw.

Jiano

2009-07-10 12:13:18 am

Quote from SoulCalibrII:

Jiano, are you running the VC port or the original N64 game? Nice segs btw.

N64. I sold my Wii because it was bad :(.

SoulCalibrII

2009-07-10 09:40:29 am

I might download the VC port. The gcn port lags way too much; about 12 seconds just in segment 1. Jiano, I can't see how anyone could play with the n64 controllers. The joystick, to me, makes n64 games unplayable. All my contoller joysticks have been grinded down to dust.

Tp_Fox

2009-07-12 05:17:28 pm

Q(O_o)Q

Eh.

Segment 2 Part 1
Segment 2 Part 2

Total Time: 15:54

SoulCalibrII

2009-07-12 10:08:23 pm

TP_fox, nice job. I downloaded the VC port, and I can tell it is far superior to the GCN port. Plus the up in resolution will make the recordings look better.

Anyway, for segment 3 (the segment after we get the Ocarina), we might have to do something rather difficult and annoying. First we go and activate the owl statue, get the 99R in ECT, deposit, withdraw 130, buy bomb bag + chus, exit WCT, go get the Zora Mask, then save at the Great Bay owl; all in 1 segment. What is hard about it is 5 superslides, all the things we have to do in the beginning, and a long cutscene to watch (grrr).

This route is compared to the other idea of going to ECT, WCT, buy bombs, then activate the owl statue. What is bad about this route is the addition of 2 extra transitions between WCT and SCT (3 seconds each) to activate and save at the owl statue, 6 seconds to travel from the bombshop to the WCT-SCT transition, then another 5 or 6 seconds to travel from the owl statue (which in this case we just loaded a save) to WCT and superslide past the guard. Overall this is about 12 seconds slower than the first mentioned route.

The negatives to the faster route (when human patience is removed) is the 4 or 5 seconds to the owl statue in the beginning, and the conversation we have with the guard to exit the town.

If you have the patience to do so, then go for the harder route, but good luck. :/

TP_fox, nice job. I downloaded the VC port, and I can tell it is far superior to the GCN port. Plus the up in resolution will make the recordings look better.

Anyway, for segment 3 (the segment after we get the Ocarina), we might have to do something rather difficult and annoying. First we go and activate the owl statue, get the 99R in ECT, deposit, withdraw 130, buy bomb bag + chus, exit WCT, go get the Zora Mask, then save at the Great Bay owl; all in 1 segment. What is hard about it is 5 superslides, all the things we have to do in the beginning, and a long cutscene to watch (grrr).

This route is compared to the other idea of going to ECT, WCT, buy bombs, then activate the owl statue. What is bad about this route is the addition of 2 extra transitions between WCT and SCT (3 seconds each) to activate and save at the owl statue, 6 seconds to travel from the bombshop to the WCT-SCT transition, then another 5 or 6 seconds to travel from the owl statue (which in this case we just loaded a save) to WCT and superslide past the guard. Overall this is about 12 seconds slower than the first mentioned route.

The negatives to the faster route (when human patience is removed) is the 4 or 5 seconds to the owl statue in the beginning, and the conversation we have with the guard to exit the town.

If you have the patience to do so, then go for the harder route, but good luck. :/

Jiano

Edit history:

Jiano: 2009-07-13 01:08:08 am

2009-07-12 11:43:53 pm

Actually Soulcal, that made me realize a better method than either of those. Just hit the SCT owl and save it after you grab the 99R. This saves 9 seconds over the normal route and is much easier than the hard route you explained.

You using VC means that it should be really easy to beat my times, so that kinda sucks for me.

Good thing you brought that up before I finished segment 3. Just finished it:

Segment 3

Also Soulcal, just because backwalking looks faster in some spots, doesn't mean it is. I found this out after actually timing shit in mupen, and was surprised to find rolling wasn't that bad at all.

MrGrunz

2009-07-13 05:20:37 am

Merry Chrismas =)

the reason, why backwalking is actually not always the best method for a non-TAS run is, that link doesn't immediately start backwalking after changing the camera angle.

it takes 19 frames for the camera to move to the new position, so link's movement is messed up within those 19 frames. it takes another 10 frames for link to get into the backwalking animation.
there's a way to avoid this, but it is TAS-only Wink

SoulCalibrII

Edit history:

SoulCalibrII: 2009-07-13 01:35:31 pm

2009-07-13 09:17:29 am

I like that route idea jiano, but I still think it is slightly slower than my faster idea, but maybe only by 3-4 seconds, mostly b/c of the conversation with the guard.

I might run the gcn port actually because ESS is nearly impossible for me to perform on VC. The controls also feel clunky and is harder to play the game at times. I may just have to practice.

And yeah, I have noticed that rolling is faster in many cases.
Also, what advantages does VC have over N64?

Jiano

Edit history:

Jiano: 2009-07-13 08:22:49 pm

2009-07-13 04:54:02 pm

Well if you really want to make segments harder to save 3-4 seconds, then I thought I'd let you know that hitting the Great Bay Owl before getting the Zora Mask is 4 seconds faster than getting the mask first.

VC goes through some text faster and any of the cut scenes with blur aren't laggy at all.

Well, my good controllers joystick just broke, and my other controller I can't even ESS with it because it's so bad. My run is put off indefinitely until I get a new one :(.

Cosmo.

Edit history:

Cosmo.: 2009-07-18 10:15:53 pm

2009-07-18 12:06:04 pm

This statue's one-eyed gaze pierces into your mind

Bottle Adventure Stuff in MM:

video of some possible effects:

gigantic explanation chart (once you understand it, go back and watch the video while looking at the chart and your mind will be blown)

thanks to jiano and myself

edit: updated to version 9

peteyboo

2009-07-18 01:53:34 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

x_x wat

Also, I made the "blue link with rock sirloin" happen with Crooked Cartridge. NIce to know where it comes from, I guess.

In_Pieces

2009-07-18 02:43:42 pm

...?

I'm not going to try and even start to understand this, but what exactly did you do to start BA...?
All i saw was you getting the spring water, it didn't look like anything out of the ordinary.

Awesome find though.