Longest Wait Time Within a Speedrun

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2015-09-23 12:46:16 pm

LotBlind: 2015-09-23 12:44:40 pm

LotBlind: 2015-09-23 10:52:28 am

LotBlind: 2015-09-23 10:52:20 am

LotBlind: 2015-09-23 10:50:22 am

2015-09-23 10:39:12 am

So I was inspired to do another canvass by a run I've seen. I suppose I will, once again, leave it until later to tell everyone what "my" game is to see if it really is the longest.

The conditions for this are like so:
-We're looking at any speedrun for any category of any game, but it needs to be an existing run that's passed verification or otherwise represents the highest standards for the game (so it's not just lazy routing).
-The route has to involve a wait. This means there needs to be somewhere where no matter what you do within a given time period, it will not speed the run up even a little bit. If there is menuing that you could technically do somewhere else just as well that doesn't invalidate it, but if it makes the most sense or is slightly more optimal to do during the wait time, then it does. EDIT: and if there's a certain set of things you need to do within a given time with whatever's left over being your wait time, you count the wait time as starting from when you've done everything else in the optimal way and are waiting in the right location.
-It MAY be an autoscroller stage so long as there is somewhere you can be on the screen where you're safe without giving any inputs at all. Like the Sonic and Tails flying stage, whatever it's called.

The other example I could think of is Earthbound with the 30-second long wait (or is it a full minute?) for entrance into the waterfall. EDIT Okay it's 3 minutes.

Oh and FFVIII when you wait for the results of the exam. How long does that take?

EDIT:
WHOOPS! I didn't think about unskippable cutscenes, but we can't count those. I meant during regular gameplay.

Thread title:

So I was inspired to do another canvass by a run I've seen. I suppose I will, once again, leave it until later to tell everyone what "my" game is to see if it really is the longest.

The conditions for this are like so:
-We're looking at any speedrun for any category of any game, but it needs to be an existing run that's passed verification or otherwise represents the highest standards for the game (so it's not just lazy routing).
-The route has to involve a wait. This means there needs to be somewhere where no matter what you do within a given time period, it will not speed the run up even a little bit. If there is menuing that you could technically do somewhere else just as well that doesn't invalidate it, but if it makes the most sense or is slightly more optimal to do during the wait time, then it does. EDIT: and if there's a certain set of things you need to do within a given time with whatever's left over being your wait time, you count the wait time as starting from when you've done everything else in the optimal way and are waiting in the right location.
-It MAY be an autoscroller stage so long as there is somewhere you can be on the screen where you're safe without giving any inputs at all. Like the Sonic and Tails flying stage, whatever it's called.

The other example I could think of is Earthbound with the 30-second long wait (or is it a full minute?) for entrance into the waterfall. EDIT Okay it's 3 minutes.

Oh and FFVIII when you wait for the results of the exam. How long does that take?

EDIT:
WHOOPS! I didn't think about unskippable cutscenes, but we can't count those. I meant during regular gameplay.

wickedcodeferret

2015-09-23 12:30:24 pm

I've got an Orgone Accumulator!

Didn't one of the games at SGDQ 2015 have like a three minute plus wait that was unskippable? I think it was the Wheel of Time FPS?

philosoraptor42

2015-09-23 12:40:23 pm

Dapper as fuck.

The Earthbound wait is actually 3 minutes.

Vulajin

2015-09-23 12:40:47 pm

Final Fantasy X has a cutscene long enough to take a shower. I think that will probably "win" this thread.

LotBlind

2015-09-23 12:45:33 pm

I didn't think of unskippable cutscenes... I don't think those can count cause then it literally becomes about which game has the longest cutscene that you can't skip.

StingerPA

2015-09-23 12:47:09 pm

Star Wars: Battlefront 2 has a 7 minute wait to start the Kashyyyk mission. Definitely the longest wait in any game I run.

LotBlind

2015-09-23 12:49:17 pm

Stinger: What happens during it? You've got control right? You just wait for the enemy to show up or something?

I'm starting to see it's gonna be difficult to make the difference between cutscenes and gameplay when the cutscene is in-engine and you have control, just waiting for scripted events, but then that's largely what my game does too...

Just bring up whatever you like! Tongue

Onin

2015-09-23 12:54:34 pm

What's the longest wait time in any Source engine game for ingame cutscenes?

Melodia

2015-09-23 01:28:39 pm

A number of games have auto-scrollers much longer than three minutes. Shantae: Risky-Revenge for instance (which you'd have to do in no-OOB category), and I'm sure there's plenty with longer ones (Castevania 3 might in the route that has the most of them)

LotBlind

2015-09-23 01:37:19 pm

Did you read what I said about autoscrollers? Do the ones you mentioned count?

StingerPA

2015-09-23 01:44:13 pm

Quote from LotBlind:

Stinger: What happens during it? You've got control right? You just wait for the enemy to show up or something?

The first two objectives are "Defend this CP for 3 minutes" and then "Defend the target for 4 minutes" so you do have control and can shoot things (it's an FPS if you didn't know), but the most you can do to speed up the mission is at the last minute of waiting, you can go out to prep for the next objective (take the 3 enemy controlled CPs) by almost taking the first CP, but leaving to fully capture it until the waiting objective ends, and the new one starts. So there is a tiny bit of something you can do to speed up the mission before the 7 minutes of waiting ends, but not much.

I have no name

Edit history:

I have no name: 2015-09-23 02:32:58 pm

I have no name: 2015-09-23 02:27:19 pm

I have no name: 2015-09-23 02:26:41 pm

2015-09-23 02:25:44 pm

Obscure games ftw

People have done runs of Guitar Hero 3. Longest song in the career is "One" with a running time of 7 minutes and 27 seconds (plus accompanying animations). On Hard or Expert, you must play all the songs. The boss battles are possible to speed up, so the run isn't 100% autoscroller. I've also seen "full game full combo" runs, which would make 'Do You Feel Like I Do' from GH5 take the lead (13 minutes and 40 seconds) if it was done.

Of runs I've done, Ape Escape has about a minute and a half long coaster ride where nothing you do saves time or loses time: aside from the time loss from a death, of course.

As another hypothetical: wouldn't a Braid 'all stars' run require a 2 hour wait?

I've also seen runs of "Legend of Twilight" (A Touhou fangame that plays like Link to the Past) and that has a 3.5 minute section where...you listen to music. A door opens after the song ends and you can do nothing during this, so I guess it's actually a cutscene.

Edit: Alright, I just realized the longest wait (probably). I recall that Baten Kaitos (I believe Origins?) 100% requires that you have an item in your inventory for 336 hours (2 weeks), not counting menu time. An optimal route for the rest of the game would still require over a week of waiting just for the one item.

People have done runs of Guitar Hero 3. Longest song in the career is "One" with a running time of 7 minutes and 27 seconds (plus accompanying animations). On Hard or Expert, you must play all the songs. The boss battles are possible to speed up, so the run isn't 100% autoscroller.  I've also seen "full game full combo" runs, which would make 'Do You Feel Like I Do' from GH5 take the lead (13 minutes and 40 seconds) if it was done.

Of runs I've done, Ape Escape has about a minute and a half long coaster ride where nothing you do saves time or loses time: aside from the time loss from a death, of course.

As another hypothetical: wouldn't a Braid 'all stars' run require a 2 hour wait?

I've also seen runs of "Legend of Twilight" (A Touhou fangame that plays like Link to the Past) and that has a 3.5 minute section where...you listen to music. A door opens after the song ends and you can do nothing during this, so I guess it's actually a cutscene.

Edit: Alright, I just realized the longest wait (probably). I recall that Baten Kaitos (I believe Origins?) 100% requires that you have an item in your inventory for 336 hours (2 weeks), not counting menu time. An optimal route for the rest of the game would [i]still[/i] require over a week of waiting just for the one item.

PJ

2015-09-23 06:21:23 pm

Is PJ

Isn't there an autoscroller in one of the Genesis Batman games that is 16 minutes long? Having played only like 2 Genesis games and no Batman games after falling for the trap of Batman Forever, I do not remember the details. I very specifically remember a number of people complaining about an autoscroller in one of those (was it Batman Returns?) that was literally as long as the rest of the run.

TheMG2

Edit history:

TheMG2: 2015-09-23 06:34:20 pm

TheMG2: 2015-09-23 06:33:41 pm

2015-09-23 06:31:17 pm

Does Baten Katios 100% count? Your total time OUTSIDE OF MENUS after getting a certain item must be 336 hours in order to get 100%. Therefore you sleep etc. and not even lose time.

EDIT: Just realized that was brought up above. It's eternal wing and lost ocean from what I have gathered.

Worn_Traveler

2015-09-23 07:07:18 pm

Formerly known as Skullboy

Quote from PJ:

Isn't there an autoscroller in one of the Genesis Batman games that is 16 minutes long? Having played only like 2 Genesis games and no Batman games after falling for the trap of Batman Forever, I do not remember the details. I very specifically remember a number of people complaining about an autoscroller in one of those (was it Batman Returns?) that was literally as long as the rest of the run.

That would be The Adventures of Batman and Robin for the Genesis. It's part of the second level.

PJ

2015-09-23 09:16:07 pm

Is PJ

Quote from Worn_Traveler:

Quote from PJ:

Isn't there an autoscroller in one of the Genesis Batman games that is 16 minutes long? Having played only like 2 Genesis games and no Batman games after falling for the trap of Batman Forever, I do not remember the details. I very specifically remember a number of people complaining about an autoscroller in one of those (was it Batman Returns?) that was literally as long as the rest of the run.

That would be The Adventures of Batman and Robin for the Genesis. It's part of the second level.

That's the one! Thank you!

jakeplissken

2015-09-23 10:12:53 pm

I'm an Olympic Straferunner

I think I know what Lot's is so I won't spoil it. But let's just say that it's absolutely excruciating.

mrprmiller

Edit history:

mrprmiller: 2015-09-24 07:31:36 am

mrprmiller: 2015-09-24 07:30:08 am

2015-09-24 07:29:56 am

Everyday is puppies and sunshine...

Well, you mentioned it on the front page for my Quest for Glory II run, but it is totally true. You literally have to stand around at one point for two different segments, and it's not even an entertaining. You just have to stand around and watch the one bartender move back and forth... The first segment is about 2 minutes, and the next can be upwards of 7 minutes. It is rough, and VERY boring.

TheThrillness

2015-09-24 08:07:04 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Heavy Rain has approximately a 5 minute wait time during the Sleepless Night chapter where you have to stand and do nothing till the fridge opens.

LotBlind

2015-09-24 09:17:04 am

Guys, I once again find I could have put some more thought into this first, because I frankly don't like all the examples being given, but that's not your fault for not reading my mind. Tongue

Ultimately all I wanted is to hear about interesting examples such as the Quest for Glory II one that indeed was the one I meant. But the problem is it turns out it's pretty hard for even myself to define what counts and what doesn't. I guess what I'm talking about is cases where the game and the route kinda just pan out in such a way as to allow you to drop the controller during regular gameplay that technically allows you to do stuff if you so choose but none of that stuff makes a time difference and you can equally well drop your controller/keyboard and wait. Don't drop the keyboard actually... I can't really even rule out waiting for a scripted event to happen (that's exactly what happens in QfGII but maybe it's just a bit less obvious what you have to do before then) so Earthbound and FFVIII are in.

Here's my subjective case-by-case analysis of what sounds like it counts for this thing:
StingerPA: Battlefront 2 - I wouldn't count this because you still have to shoot at stuff right? So it's not THAT kind of wait.
Melodia: Autoscrollers yes, but not ones where you can huddle up in the corner and take a nap I'm guessing.
I have no name: Guitar Hero 3 - doesn't count cause input. Ape Escape: Doesn't count if it takes input to not die. Braid - So it has a star that you can get for 100% ONLY BY standing still with no inputs? Come to think of it that goes under the Earthbound category... Legend of Twilight: It sounds very set-piecey. Maybe? Baten Kaitos - That's a hypothetical run that nobody will ever do. It sounds like it wasn't the intention to troll speedrunners with that requirement, maybe it's just a bad item to hold that you'd normally want to get rid of? But in theory I suppose that counts.
PJ, Worn_Traveler: Longest autoscroller could be a category and that sounds pretty long ofc. (Genesis The Adventures of Batman and Robin)
mrprmiller: Not that it mattered much but thanks for spoiling it. After all we've been through together. BTW in your run the wait is much shorter than that but I'm guessing you're saying if you did the part before the second wait optimally you'd get over 7 minutes.
TheThrillness: Sounds legit. I think it's an adventure game right? So I imagine the route is pretty linear.

Okay fine! I'm seeing no good way to define what I meant at all. Because in the end the formula is the same for many of these examples - you have a scripted thing you need to wait for. Before then there is a range of situations you can have which really only vary from having nothing at all to do between A (timer starts) and B (timer triggers the next event) and having so many things to do in-between that you're probably going to arrive late at the trigger. Further there's a spectrum of how "emergent" the situation is... You can think about how easy it was to predict when you started routing that the wait was going to be there, how linear the story progression is, whether the devs knew everyone would have to do it etc. to evaluate how trivial or non-trivial the wait is. But that's about as far as you can go. Still there's a pretty good way to differentiate this broad category of wait from autoscrollers in that you're not required to give inputs at all during it.

Well what about cutscenes then? Earlier I said I thought they were too cheesy to count. We can tell it's a cutscene when it's pre-rendered, but again there's a spectrum of how far integrated it is with the game engine. Something like FFVIII has cutscenes where you retain character control, although some of them don't involve a wait per se. Ingame cutscenes like Half-Life 2 I think are less trivial examples (although I just realized they don't count if you can push characters around or create a platform or whatever). Scripted events are at the other end of this nebulous division.

As for autoscrollers, that one seems pretty easy to lodge into a different category altogether. In that case requiring inputs is fine. So far I guess the Adventures of Batman and Robin one (at 16 minutes) is "winning". However now that I think about it some more, I don't know how the Battlefront 2 example is not technically an autoscroller. Well it ISN'T in a literal sense but it's still the equivalent in another sense.

Okay I guess I'll settle for that. Keep throwing examples out here, at least I'M getting ideas from this!

Guys, I once again find I could have put some more thought into this first, because I frankly don't like all the examples being given, but that's not your fault for not reading my mind. :P

Ultimately all I wanted is to hear about interesting examples such as the Quest for Glory II one that indeed was the one I meant. But the problem is it turns out it's pretty hard for even myself to define what counts and what doesn't. I guess what I'm talking about is cases where the game and the route kinda just pan out in such a way as to allow you to drop the controller during regular gameplay that technically allows you to do stuff if you so choose but none of that stuff makes a time difference and you can equally well drop your controller/keyboard and wait. Don't drop the keyboard actually... I can't really even rule out waiting for a scripted event to happen (that's exactly what happens in QfGII but maybe it's just a bit less obvious what you have to do before then) so Earthbound and FFVIII are in.

Here's my subjective case-by-case analysis of what sounds like it counts for this thing:
StingerPA: Battlefront 2 - I wouldn't count this because you still have to shoot at stuff right? So it's not THAT kind of wait.
Melodia: Autoscrollers yes, but not ones where you can huddle up in the corner and take a nap I'm guessing.
I have no name: Guitar Hero 3 - doesn't count cause input. Ape Escape: Doesn't count if it takes input to not die. Braid - So it has a star that you can get for 100% ONLY BY standing still with no inputs? Come to think of it that goes under the Earthbound category... Legend of Twilight: It sounds very set-piecey. Maybe? Baten Kaitos - That's a hypothetical run that nobody will ever do. It sounds like it wasn't the intention to troll speedrunners with that requirement, maybe it's just a bad item to hold that you'd normally want to get rid of? But in theory I suppose that counts.
PJ, Worn_Traveler: Longest autoscroller could be a category and that sounds pretty long ofc. (Genesis The Adventures of Batman and Robin)
mrprmiller: Not that it mattered much but thanks for spoiling it. After all we've been through together. BTW in your run the wait is much shorter than that but I'm guessing you're saying if you did the part before the second wait optimally you'd get over 7 minutes.
TheThrillness: Sounds legit. I think it's an adventure game right? So I imagine the route is pretty linear.

Okay fine! I'm seeing no good way to define what I meant at all. Because in the end the formula is the same for many of these examples - you have a scripted thing you need to wait for. Before then there is a range of situations you can have which really only vary from having nothing at all to do between A (timer starts) and B (timer triggers the next event) and having so many things to do in-between that you're probably going to arrive late at the trigger. Further there's a spectrum of how "emergent" the situation is... You can think about how easy it was to predict when you started routing that the wait was going to be there, how linear the story progression is, whether the devs knew everyone would have to do it etc. to evaluate how trivial or non-trivial the wait is. But that's about as far as you can go. Still there's a pretty good way to differentiate this broad category of wait from autoscrollers in that you're not required to give inputs at all during it.

Well what about cutscenes then? Earlier I said I thought they were too cheesy to count. We can tell it's a cutscene when it's pre-rendered, but again there's a spectrum of how far integrated it is with the game engine. Something like FFVIII has cutscenes where you retain character control, although some of them don't involve a wait per se. Ingame cutscenes like Half-Life 2 I think are less trivial examples (although I just realized they don't count if you can push characters around or create a platform or whatever). Scripted events are at the other end of this nebulous division.

As for autoscrollers, that one seems pretty easy to lodge into a different category altogether. In that case requiring inputs is fine. So far I guess the Adventures of Batman and Robin one (at 16 minutes) is "winning". However now that I think about it some more, I don't know how the Battlefront 2 example is not technically an autoscroller. Well it ISN'T in a literal sense but it's still the equivalent in another sense.

Okay I guess I'll settle for that. Keep throwing examples out here, at least I'M getting ideas from this!

TheMG2

Edit history:

TheMG2: 2015-09-24 09:24:08 am

2015-09-24 09:21:17 am

Somebody actually did two Baten Katios 100% runs: http://pastebin.com/BRvPJ430

EDIT: Basically items in that game age and get better, and in order to get 100% you need them to age fully.

I have no name

2015-09-24 09:25:34 am

Obscure games ftw

The Braid example doesn't require you to not move, just to stand on a very slow moving cloud until it goes across the entire screen. You can move around on the cloud, but there's no way around needing to wait 2 hours.

Patrick

Edit history:

Patrick: 2015-09-24 04:11:29 pm

Patrick: 2015-09-24 04:10:20 pm

Patrick: 2015-09-24 04:07:54 pm

Patrick: 2015-09-24 04:07:03 pm

Patrick: 2015-09-24 03:56:21 pm

2015-09-24 03:54:09 pm

Vice City 100% has a 10min waiting time where absolutely nothing matters except for the last minute or so since you re-load anyways for it to be useful. The "100% run" submitted to SDA was rejected since it just did a couple of missions multiple times using glitches but the SDA-approved "do everything that gives percentage at least once" definition can also have a 10min waiting time to make the game give you 50 fares for each fare you drive (well, after one fare, you don't get another one an have to cancel and wait for 10min again^^). It is too hard and boring to get S. to do it since there is 0 competetion for the WR. Also, GTA 3 already has a way to glitch-pass taxi by starting the taxi mission during a specific part of a story-line mission (that makes crazy stuff happen and passes the taxi mission), it's probably just a matter of time until a VC taxi glitch-pass is found.

It doesn't fit the rules (not published) and takes a long time to explain properly, so I only do it when asked for.

Vice City 100% has a 10min waiting time where absolutely nothing matters except for the last minute or so since you re-load anyways for it to be useful. The "100% run" submitted to SDA was rejected since it just did a couple of missions multiple times using glitches but the SDA-approved "do everything that gives percentage at least once" definition can also have a 10min waiting time to make the game give you 50 fares for each fare you drive (well, after one fare, you don't get another one an have to cancel and wait for 10min again^^). It is too hard and boring to get S. to do it since there is 0 competetion for the WR. Also, GTA 3 already has a way to glitch-pass taxi by starting the taxi mission during a specific part of a story-line mission (that makes crazy stuff happen and passes the taxi mission), it's probably just a matter of time until a VC taxi glitch-pass is found.

It doesn't fit the rules (not published) and takes a long time to explain properly, so I only do it when asked for.

Zergreenone

2015-09-24 04:20:50 pm

Starcraft 1 has a 20:11 long mission where it is possible to wipe out the zerg at the start and then you can do stuff and just basically wait around for the rest of the mission. I'm not sure what the maximum possible wait time is while still getting an optimal time

mrprmiller

Edit history:

mrprmiller: 2015-09-24 07:13:31 pm

mrprmiller: 2015-09-24 07:13:12 pm

mrprmiller: 2015-09-24 07:12:34 pm

mrprmiller: 2015-09-24 07:09:08 pm

2015-09-24 07:08:51 pm

Everyday is puppies and sunshine...

Quote:

mrprmiller: Not that it mattered much but thanks for spoiling it. After all we've been through together. BTW in your run the wait is much shorter than that but I'm guessing you're saying if you did the part before the second wait optimally you'd get over 7 minutes.

Aw, shoot! I didn't read the opening message closely enough! :/ Crap. And after all we've been through together... That part is a mess and if anyone can ever find a skip (believe me, I've looked) it would shatter the game. BTW, good topic!

In the meantime, something I may not have mentioned is that after the submission (as is tradition, it was after the submission) puri and I discovered something (funny enough, independently from one another) to slightly boost the speed of that section. Not very much, but noticeable.