La-Mulana

2013-09-30 08:14:35 pm

The original, since 2003.

That is a fair point there as a good example. You could probably cut a few seconds out regardless, as unless you were going for more Pistol ammo, collecting 600 Coins for the endgame really isn't necessary. 200 is required for torude to finish the game, but what's done with the rest is pretty much whatever your preference is really. you could purchase a set of Bombs for Mother's 2nd/4th form, then throw the rest away on Flares, or go for the Pistol Ammo. Mother 2 has 36 HP I think so three shots will do that form in. you could burn the rest on the fourth form I suppose if you wanted. (or maybe acombo of like 6 Flares waiting for her to swoop down, then pistol twice to finish, then the other 4 on the 4th form)

Do note that the fourth form I think has something like 70 HP, it takes all 6 shots from your Pistol to kill it immediately.

DeliciousPi

2013-09-30 08:45:34 pm

Form 4 takes 4 shots unless it's different for newer versions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_c3fzJH4G6Y#t=7744

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-09-30 09:03:28 pm

2013-09-30 08:55:24 pm

The original, since 2003.

Actually, you're right! I just tested this out loading up a different save file, and the Eye form does indeed go down in 4 shots in the current Steam version. Maybe it takes the full 6 if you're playing on Hard Mode.

You know what that means right? Buy the Pistol, use 2 shots and 6 Flares on the second form, then burn the remaining 4 on the Eye form. =D

Or if you want, do the chakram kill method and save the ammo to speed up the final form a bit.

HiddenDistance

2013-10-08 11:52:58 pm

Hey guys,

I don't have what I would want to record local videos yet, but after I wrapped up some midterm exams I decided to spend a tiny lull in exams/projects/stress and get a little familiar with streaming interfaces. I grabbed OBS to work out some of the kinks ahead of having a storage device large enough to record video to or capture software that would run $. After some testing everything looks fairly decent, and while I'd want to record video as well, I figured - what the hell, if I get some time away from doing schoolwork I'll start streaming. I'd love to do a run tonight, but I think I'd rather be unconscious in about an hour or so.

Shameless plug - http://www.twitch.tv/hiddendistance

Traysandor

2013-10-09 06:27:06 pm

The original, since 2003.

Nice! Well, at least you have a place where I can watch your runs now. (Even if I haven't actually signed up for Twitch.tv yet. Heck, even my youtube is just there to follow other videos and stuff - there aren't even any videos there ;p)

I don't check here all that often (Maybe once a day, if that) so I'm pretty likely to miss you playing the game unless you contacted me directly somehow.

Yeah, I don't even know if the PM system would buzz me on that either. Never had a reason to use it =p

DeliciousPi

Edit history:

DeliciousPi: 2013-10-09 07:47:49 pm

2013-10-09 07:46:49 pm

Awesome HiddenDistance, I'm followed. Hopefully I'll be available to watch while you're streaming.
Tray, if you follow his stream page, you should receive an email when his stream goes live.

I've been working on some strats for Lahamu (the fish knight) lately.
It is possible to rush in and one cycle him, but I haven't found a good setup and the timing is very strict.

What I have instead is a consistent setup that's a little faster than a 2 cycle:

HiddenDistance

2013-10-10 12:35:43 am

Hey Tray, not sure if you were around for my run earlier, I didn't see you in chat or anything but I cut up the run & the VoD is here - http://www.twitch.tv/hiddendistance/c/3060517

Unless there's a better time I'm not aware of, I now have the La-Mulana Remake SS RTA Any% WR at 2:03:37.5. I'll stream more when I have time; I definitely think that run can be improved on... a lot. I felt really sloppy at times, and there are some places (flare puzzle, Tiamat Fight) where I really lost the plot. The splits are.. baffling. Gotta thank all of you guys; I don't think I'd have made any of these runs with you.

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-10-10 07:30:12 am

2013-10-10 06:32:26 am

The original, since 2003.

@HiddenDistance: No, I'm pretty sure I was at work when you were doing that run. For me, the best time to catch me on is typically in the morning before noon Eastern time. As I got back kinda late-ish, I didn't bother to check.

@DeliciousPi: Huh, I didn;t know that about Twitch. I'll have to sign up for Twitch if that's indeed the case. If for the fact to become a lurker (Since I haven't the slightest idea about recording my own videos)

So I started watching your RTA and the first thing I've really noticed so far (Aside from all the clumsy stuff in the first half hour of the run) is your use of the Grapple Claw instead of taking fall stun. Quite thoughtful, I didn't think of using that!

HiddenDistance

2013-10-14 05:01:53 pm

So, I decided to take your advice DeliciousPi & try out that strat involving using the caltrops to kill Argus instead of what I currently do (1 shuriken + 3 Axe swings) and found that with a few fights for comparisons sake, using caltrops saves 1 second on Argus (provided you don't screw anything up on either execution). Using Caltrops on a moderate sized ladder (the one on the same screen as the Guidance Gate grail tablet to go down was what I tested with) saves 0.5 seconds. Given that Argus will die to 3 caltrops, technically I think the savings are potentially better just using them for ladders, but that's also making an assumption that you wind up using them all.

With that, I think caltrop usage is something I want to just naturally perform more often, particularly since I have a lot more of them now then I was used to. Also, I noticed both in my record run & the run I did the other night, there are a couple of places in the TSotM that I could use the caltrops to boost through some of the red tentacles, which would go a tiny bit faster, and I'd also wind up taking less damage overall, making the final fight with mother reasonably safer. All together, I think if I used *all* my caltrops in the run, better mileage is to be had elsewhere then the fight with Argus, but it's probably marginal.

So, I decided to take your advice DeliciousPi & try out that strat involving using the caltrops to kill Argus instead of what I currently do (1 shuriken + 3 Axe swings) and found that with a few fights for comparisons sake, using caltrops saves 1 second on Argus (provided you don't screw anything up on either execution).  Using Caltrops on a moderate sized ladder (the one on the same screen as the Guidance Gate grail tablet to go down was what I tested with) saves 0.5 seconds.  Given that Argus will die to 3 caltrops, technically I think the savings are potentially better just using them for ladders, but that's also making an assumption that you wind up using them all.

With that, I think caltrop usage is something I want to just naturally perform more often, particularly since I have a lot more of them now then I was used to.  Also, I noticed both in my record run & the run I did the other night, there are a couple of places in the TSotM that I could use the caltrops to boost through some of the red tentacles, which would go a tiny bit faster, and I'd also wind up taking less damage overall, making the final fight with mother reasonably safer.  All together, I think if I used *all* my caltrops in the run, better mileage is to be had elsewhere then the fight with Argus, but it's probably marginal.

DeliciousPi

2013-10-14 06:10:50 pm

What I do for Argus is 1 axe + 2 caltrops. You run up, stop and neutral jump, swing axe on the way up, then turn around and mash out 2 caltrops on the way down. It should be about the same amount of time.

HiddenDistance

2013-10-23 12:16:32 pm

So, I managed to kick in a sweet run last night after about 90 minutes of failed attempts in the 1st quarter of the game.

From memory, I flubbed two things in a fairly large way. I fell down the pit when you're going to get the earth spears, so that cost me a fair bit. I also stalled really hard in the Tower of Goddess climb when trying to do the flail whip glitch the first time. There were other minor things; fight with mother could have been quicker, some other segments weren't amazing, but I did have incredible luck on the fight with Bahamut, and played really well throughout most of the run.

http://www.twitch.tv/hiddendistance/c/3127760
New WR time of 2:01:08.5

If I can do a run correcting for those mistakes & keeping a similar overall pace, I think I can get under 2 hours for sure.

Traysandor

2013-10-23 09:49:53 pm

The original, since 2003.

Nice, congrats! I think I was working then sleeping for that run, but I'll give it a look when I have time. I'd say sub-2 hours RTA is definitely possible, but you have to be REALLY good to get it in. Best of luck, and I hope to see another stream soon!

Shinkada

2013-10-24 12:09:05 pm

Man, I really wish someone would do a Hard Mode run of the remake, that'd be mind blowing! Though I dunno, it already seems like a super hard game to run and Hard Mode invalidates pretty much every strategy that involves tanking hits.

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-10-25 08:07:50 am

Traysandor: 2013-10-25 08:05:29 am

2013-10-25 07:59:46 am

The original, since 2003.

@Shinkada: While Hard Mosde is definitely possible, you'd more likely see it in a 100% run of this game (Where activating Hard Mode before fighting any of the Guardians is required). As far as Any% goes, there's no reason ever to go to the Hard Mode room during a run; the closest would be very early in the game, and would make the game far more dangerous than it already is, especially since Any% you have less HP to work with for the early bosses. After the puzzles are done in The Mausoleum, Any% only goes there to kill Sakit, gain access to the Graveyard of the Giants, and solve the Water Flow Puzzle (Where you also use the Mini Doll while you're here too)

As it stands, all I've seen so far for a 100% run is someone posting an outline of what you get and when. Also, Hell Temple is also included in the 100% run... yeah, good luck with that one.

HiddenDistance

2013-10-29 11:21:35 pm

Well, I'm going to be busy with schoolwork for the rest of this week and all of next week guaranteed, so I won't be able to get in any more runs during at least that portion of time.
I did sneak in one last run tonight though, and I'm glad I did because I got a run under 2 hours!

1:59:35.0
http://www.twitch.tv/hiddendistance/c/3162835

DeliciousPi

2013-10-30 06:58:28 pm

Damn, grats on sub-2 man, that's hot.

Traysandor

2013-10-31 01:35:49 pm

The original, since 2003.

Wow, sub-2 hours! We really gotta get you a hard drive and recording capabilities, sub-2 hours I'd say is definitely SDA submisison-worthy.

I know you'll be busy with schoolwork and whatnot, I wish you good luck on all of that! We'll still be here to cheer you on when you finish up with all that stuff!

Traysandor

2013-11-27 05:00:57 pm

The original, since 2003.

So yeah not much has happened in this game of late. Perhaps we should re-spark some interest in the game by mentioning that through Dec. 3 this game is now on Sale on Steam for only $3! Really people, go pick up and play this game if you haven't already. It's pretty legit awesome.

RaguORagula

2013-11-30 09:46:30 pm

I'm back from page 22, glad to see people still working on this game. Was scary to see the wiki go down after I put so much work into it, but thankfully it was salvaged and finished up very nicely.

Have we settled on a definitive remake version for running? I'm guessing we still rely on the early flail whip, and I see the optimal route has changed quite a bit from that first Japanese speedrun on YT. Also, congratulations to HiddenDistance for the sub-2:00. I'm definitely aiming for that mark, so I hope others will continue to try and compete. La-Mulana is something I'd very much like to run in a marathon if there's any demand for it.

Dracothuban

2013-12-01 09:35:58 am

Hello everyone, the information in this thread has been very helpful. I'm looking to start speedrunning 100% remake. I have been looking at the 100% route on http://pastebin.com/GakAVXua. There seems to be a few things missing that i've noticed and I'm trying to fix. Such as the grail point for Temple of the Sun and the Hermes boots. Is there a good 100% run posted that I could see for the weights, money and splits etc? I'm just kinda winging it right now and trying to get the route down. Also just so I understand, 100% is all hard mode bosses plus hell temple and all collectibles except buckler and fake silver shield. Thanks guys.

Traysandor

2013-12-02 10:26:45 am

The original, since 2003.

Dracothorn: 100% is actually defined as all characters appearing in the Credits sequence at the end of the game. Not only does this mean finding all the collectibles, but doing things like getting all the emails and visiting the Dev Rooms. For a full list of all the characters that can appear in the Credits, go check out the Wiki here: http://lamulana-remake.wikia.com/wiki/Endings

That said, there are some things that can be skipped, like the Chain Whip and the Buckler/Silver Shield. Only having the highest level upgrades in those instances count towards 100% (Meaning Flail Whip and Angel Shield)

As for the routing, I don't think there's been anyone interested enough in doing 100% of the remake speedrun to warrant someone posting a real guide. There's an Any% guide on the Wiki, and I have a Speedrunning Guide modified for the Steam Version of La-Mulana up on the Steam forums.

In the end, you're probaly going to have to piece together a route for yourself. I remember someone posting a link to 100% speedrun notes a few pages back. If you can find that, it would help a lot yeah.

Good luck with the adventuring!

Dracothorn: 100% is actually defined as all characters appearing in the Credits sequence at the end of the game. Not only does this mean finding all the collectibles, but doing things like getting all the emails and visiting the Dev Rooms.  For a full list of all the characters that can appear in the Credits, go check out the Wiki here: http://lamulana-remake.wikia.com/wiki/Endings

That said, there are some things that can be skipped, like the Chain Whip and the Buckler/Silver Shield. Only having the highest level upgrades in those instances count towards 100% (Meaning Flail Whip and Angel Shield)

As for the routing, I don't think there's been anyone interested enough in doing 100% of the remake speedrun to warrant someone posting a real guide. There's an Any% guide on the Wiki, and I have a Speedrunning Guide modified for the Steam Version of La-Mulana up on the Steam forums.

In the end, you're probaly going to have to piece together a route for yourself. I remember someone posting a link to 100% speedrun notes a few pages back. If you can find that, it would help a lot yeah.

Good luck with the adventuring!

HiddenDistance

Edit history:

HiddenDistance: 2013-12-02 02:15:10 pm

2013-12-02 02:14:30 pm

Thanks RaguORagula! I'm wrapping up my exams shortly so I'll be looking to do more attempts to try and improve on that time as well; I'd also love to run it in a marathon setting, I just always have fun playing La-Mulana.

On the 100% run note - it's something I've been thinking about, but every time I remember some of the ending requirements - particularly the weapon fairy or the sacrificial maiden I start to lose interest. Some of the emails you receive from Xelpud have triggers that aren't 100% predictable, or at least I've had issues triggering them in the past. If the 100% category was something more like - All guardians hard mode, all items, all software and Hell temple I think it would bear more consideration.

I guess the running around getting the extra money or bomb chests or making sure I activate every fairy point, or making sure I receive all of the emails are just not things that appeal to me, so I suppose I'll stick to any%.

Traysandor

2013-12-02 06:09:57 pm

The original, since 2003.

Yeah, I can kind of agree there, 100% as the current definition stands is pretty mundane, especially since some of the requiirememnts are finnicky, and it's possible to "Glitch" one character to NOT appear in the Credits, even though you met the requirement. I know this would probably get downvoted, but I'd propose redefining 100% as "Kill all bosses on Hard Mode, All Treasures/Items/Maps, All Software, all Secret Treasure Chests, and beating Hell Temple"

RaguORagula

2013-12-02 06:46:04 pm

I can get behind that. The ending characters are more representative of achievements than completion, to me. The only major difference is the emails, and because some of the email triggers still aren't perfectly understood, I don't think it's feasible to really plan a run around them. Some of the conditions are silly and have nothing to do with skill, such as wasting time in particular areas after defeating all the guardians; is it really critical to judge completion on something like that? I'd vote to put hard mode and Hell Temple in their own categories, but I guess there aren't enough runners to really warrant that anyway.

By the way, I know it was discussed based on that old Japanese run, but what decision was made regarding ver 1.0's triple ammo box? Is it not enough of an advantage to warrant playing that version?

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-12-02 08:35:41 pm

Traysandor: 2013-12-02 08:29:36 pm

2013-12-02 08:21:04 pm

The original, since 2003.

I forget exactly where the Triple Ammo Box was in the Japanese version, to be honest. The main problem with Ammunition in the game is the cost, aside from the initial purchase. If you're running Any% you won't be able to afford anything extra until almost the end of the game (Meaning after Tiamat), and about the only thing the Ammo would be useful on are Ox Head/Horse Face (That fight is annoying so I can see if you had three boxes of pistol ammo, using some on them would be a good idea) and the Mother fight. Nuwa and Beezlebub are Time Lamp'd non-threats, and everything else you need to fight is already dead besides Mother.

As for 100% I'm sure you could probably squeeze it in somewhere, but as I understand it, you need to do at least one money grind in order to buy everything in the game (Even after factoring in the extra income from the hidden chests), so you'd have to plan out the spending in advance. If you do wind up getting the Ammo in 100% too, you can add the Dragon Boss Refight in Hell Temple, and THE BOSS at the end of Hell Temple as uses for your Pistol Ammo. (Personally, I'd use it on THE BOSS)

I forget exactly where the Triple Ammo Box was in the Japanese version, to be honest.  The main problem with Ammunition in the game is the cost, aside from the initial purchase. If you're running Any% you won't be able to afford anything extra until almost the end of the game (Meaning after Tiamat), and about the only thing the Ammo would be useful on are Ox Head/Horse Face (That fight is annoying so I can see if you had three boxes of pistol ammo, using some on them would be a good idea) and the Mother fight.  Nuwa and Beezlebub are Time Lamp'd non-threats, and everything else you need to fight is already dead besides Mother.

As for 100% I'm sure you could probably squeeze it in somewhere, but as I understand it, you need to do at least one money grind in order to buy everything in the game (Even after factoring in the extra income from the hidden chests), so you'd have to plan out the spending in advance.  If you do wind up getting the Ammo in 100% too, you can add the Dragon Boss Refight in Hell Temple, and THE BOSS at the end of Hell Temple as uses for your Pistol Ammo. (Personally, I'd use it on THE BOSS)