La-Mulana

2013-06-10 09:33:57 pm

Yep yep yep!

Seeing as this clip can be done anywhere there's a corner and an enemy, as opposed to previous wall clips that used screen transitions (or in one case a statue), I'd say that's enough to let it qualify as separate; there's even a recent precedent in Ecco, where a glitch with the camera was discovered that lets you get into walls practically anywhere you want to, letting you skip straight to the end of most levels.

One other possible use I just thought of would be skipping the woman statue by clipping into the part of the moon pyramid you need to sleep in, unless the game does an extra check for it before giving you the ocarina?

TheMaxican

2013-06-10 09:39:45 pm

Break through the final confusion

Yeah I was thinking "separate category" like you, BlueGlass, but then I realized that it would indeed include the two instances we would already be using it - Endless Corridor, and in that little part in Chamber of Extinction going up to where the Pistol is (what's the name of that statue again? Spriggan I think?). Just because we've figured out how to make them 100% reproducible doesn't mean they're not, in essense, the same glitch. Smiley

But yeah, someone with precedent may correct me!

Cool idea with the woman's statue. Man, I'm thinking the eventual TAS run could be so insane, haha...

Anyway, Segment 30 didn't happen this weekend obviously, though I'm pretty close (I'm actually still not completely final on my strats for Gozu & Mezu and Nu Wa actually, still trying to decide what the absolute fastest way is), so hopefully it'll be soon.

And also, as I said, I just started watching Solairflare's run again, and man, it's awesome. Smiley

Solairflare, you definitely have to teach me your wall kick skills, you nail like every single one! Smiley

Yeah I was thinking "separate category" like you, BlueGlass, but then I realized that it would indeed include the two instances we would already be using it - Endless Corridor, and in that little part in Chamber of Extinction going up to where the Pistol is (what's the name of that statue again? Spriggan I think?). Just because we've figured out how to make them 100% reproducible doesn't mean they're not, in essense, the same glitch. :) But yeah, someone with precedent may correct me!

Cool idea with the woman's statue. Man, I'm thinking the eventual TAS run could be so insane, haha...

Anyway, Segment 30 didn't happen this weekend obviously, though I'm pretty close (I'm actually still not completely final on my strats for Gozu & Mezu and Nu Wa actually, still trying to decide what the absolute fastest way is), so hopefully it'll be soon.

And also, as I said, I just started watching Solairflare's run again, and man, it's awesome. :) Solairflare, you definitely have to teach me your wall kick skills, you nail like every single one! :)

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2013-06-11 08:14:39 pm

2013-06-11 08:09:13 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

The woman statue does check if she's pregnant or not. Also you can't glitch there anyways, If the wall has a free space somewhere above it it will immediately kick you to the top. So there isn't a glitchable wall in the area unless they figure out how to glitch onto the right side of walls. In the remake you can get there early by hurting yourself as the twinlabyrinths shortcut block falls on you then jumping down.

Sakako

2013-06-15 08:30:14 pm

So I'm not sure if it should go here or not, but I spent this morning making a dependency chart for the remake, and found some interesting things.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32573404/lamulana-deps.png

Most of the left side is what you need to do to finish the game; and everything in orange makes up the low% run. (It's interesting that you don't actually need any of the extra weapons except for the bomb and key sword, I thought.)

The dotted arrows mark possible skips. At the moment, the two I know of are caltrop'ing yourself down the Anchor canal (which skips the Pepper, Treasures and Anchor), and the Zu boss fight can be completely skipped with the Lamp of Time. Please do let me know if it's not all up to scratch! Smiley

... Also given that you don't NEED any extra weapons, you'll be going up against Mother most probably with the Key Sword, since at that stage you'll have it fully powered, in comparison to the original Whip. Tongue

Patashu

Edit history:

Patashu: 2013-06-16 07:19:10 am

2013-06-16 07:18:34 am

Tseralith found Ocarina early:

Since the trigger for taking damage is swinging the axe, can it be done consistently?

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2013-06-16 11:08:32 am

Anonymous52555: 2013-06-16 11:05:11 am

Anonymous52555: 2013-06-16 11:02:25 am

2013-06-16 11:02:05 am

Metroidvanias are God Tier

@Patashu Looks like I stand corrected. I think I might have been confusing the original and the remake Tongue

@Sakako You don't need the scalesphere in the game at all. You can get the eye of truth without it. You can also get the chain whip with the feather or bombs instead of the grapple claw. Other than that it looks pretty sweet.

BlueGlass

2013-06-17 12:02:55 am

Yep yep yep!

@Sakako: A few things as far as low% goes.

Chakrams are needed (for Chamber of Birth).

There is a choice between grapple claw and earth spear (earth spear is better).

Flares are needed (for Twin Labyrinths ankh jewel).

Xmailer.exe is unavoidable.

The boots are skippable.

Both Twin Labyrinths minibosses can be skipped, rather than just Zu.

Isis pendant is required to reach Mother.

The Shrine of the Mother map is also needed alongside the dragon bone, MSX2, and the two map softwares for the diary and death seal.

As far as basic game flow goes, there are also a number of other corrections:

Bronze mirror is first needed for Viy, who is directly needed for Palenque.

The items in and related to Tower of the Goddess require either beating Viy, or a key fairy and a weapon capable of hitting below Lemeza (knife, axe, spears, caltrops, katana, or bombs).

A weapon capable of hitting below Lemeza is also needed for the silver shield, torude.exe, and the Tower of Ruin ankh jewel.

The feather is needed for bombs, cog of the soul, dimensional key, the angel shield, Tiamat, and the death seal, and can be used in place of the grapple claw for the woman statue.

Isis pendant needs the Sun Temple miniboss, reader.exe, and the hand scanner.

Eye of truth also needs the hand scanner and reader.exe.

Fruit of eden needs the hand scanner as well.

Twin statue needs the endless key.

The serpent staff is needed for both the dimensional key and Skanda.

The crystal skull is needed for Skanda and the angel shield.

Ignoring the latest version, the flail whip can be gotten with the same requirements as other TotG items, with the addition of grapple claw.

The katana, in addition to needing the twin statue, also needs one of the following: time lamp, grapple claw, or beating Peryton.

Also required for bombs is the miniboss Kamaitachi, who needs the feather and access to eastern Graveyard of the Giants (the latter can be done through either the plane model or grapple claw glitching in Tower of the Goddess).

The exact requirements for Book of the Dead are unclear, but it requires at least one guardian beaten, as well as access to Anubis.

The diary is only required for the mulana talisman.

The birth seal needs either Bahamut or the boots and is needed for the book of the dead.

MSX2 needs four guardians beaten.

Either Sakit or Elmac plus the bronze shield, or the plane model are required for the earth spear, torude.exe, book of the dead, and fruit of eden. The fruit is also needed for the first two if the Elmac route is taken.

Even then, that's still not everything as things are simply too interconnected for me to try and work it all out ATM. That said, your chart is certainly a good start.

@Sakako:  A few things as far as low% goes.

Chakrams are needed (for Chamber of Birth).

There is a choice between grapple claw and earth spear (earth spear is better).

Flares are needed (for Twin Labyrinths ankh jewel).

Xmailer.exe is unavoidable.

The boots are skippable.

Both Twin Labyrinths minibosses can be skipped, rather than just Zu.

Isis pendant is required to reach Mother.

The Shrine of the Mother map is also needed alongside the dragon bone, MSX2, and the two map softwares for the diary and death seal.

As far as basic game flow goes, there are also a number of other corrections:

Bronze mirror is first needed for Viy, who is directly needed for Palenque.

The items in and related to Tower of the Goddess require either beating Viy, or a key fairy and a weapon capable of hitting below Lemeza (knife, axe, spears, caltrops, katana, or bombs).

A weapon capable of hitting below Lemeza is also needed for the silver shield, torude.exe, and the Tower of Ruin ankh jewel.

The feather is needed for bombs, cog of the soul, dimensional key, the angel shield, Tiamat, and the death seal, and can be used in place of the grapple claw for the woman statue.

Isis pendant needs the Sun Temple miniboss, reader.exe, and the hand scanner.

Eye of truth also needs the hand scanner and reader.exe.

Fruit of eden needs the hand scanner as well.

Twin statue needs the endless key.

The serpent staff is needed for both the dimensional key and Skanda.

The crystal skull is needed for Skanda and the angel shield.

Ignoring the latest version, the flail whip can be gotten with the same requirements as other TotG items, with the addition of grapple claw.

The katana, in addition to needing the twin statue, also needs one of the following: time lamp, grapple claw, or beating Peryton.

Also required for bombs is the miniboss Kamaitachi, who needs the feather and access to eastern Graveyard of the Giants (the latter can be done through either the plane model or grapple claw glitching in Tower of the Goddess).

The exact requirements for Book of the Dead are unclear, but it requires at least one guardian beaten, as well as access to Anubis.

The diary is only required for the mulana talisman.

The birth seal needs either Bahamut or the boots and is needed for the book of the dead.

MSX2 needs four guardians beaten.

Either Sakit or Elmac plus the bronze shield, or the plane model are required for the earth spear, torude.exe, book of the dead, and fruit of eden.  The fruit is also needed for the first two if the Elmac route is taken.

Even then, that's still not everything as things are simply too interconnected for me to try and work it all out ATM.  That said, your chart is certainly a good start.

Sakako

2013-06-17 03:19:07 am

I just want to preface this by saying I shouldn't have been so naive to think I could make a complete chart in an hour or so Tongue

@Anonymous52555, @BlueGlass: Thanks for your input; I'll have to modify the chart again. I did try and make it as "simple" as possible: that is, no forward edges on dependencies (it seems I forgot to take out the Crystal Skull -> Diary link.)

I totally forgot about that little boomerang thing in the Chamber of Birth, and the whole lighting the eyes thing in Twin Labyrinths.

I'm guessing there's a pillar skip for getting the Woman Statue then? If everything that you need the Grapple Claw for is also doable with the Earth Spear, then I guess it can be skipped? (Although that's obviously not a good idea in an any% run since you have to go to that room anyway.)

The Peryton skip I'm assuming is exactly the same as the Zu skip, so I'll mark that in.

Totally forgot that you need to actually activate fairies at endgame, in addition to not even marking the Shrine map on the dep chart; marking them in too.

Since beating Viy is unavoidable (as of yet), they don't have to depend on Key Fairies, so I'm pretty sure you never actually need one.

Is it possible to break the floors for Silver Shield, torude.exe and the ToR ankh jewel with bombs? If so, we don't need to get another weapon that can hit below.

... etc & so on.

There's obviously still so much I have to learn about this game, so thankfully it's interesting enough that I want to. The whole "needing guardians beaten" thing is really hard to express in a chart like this, but I suppose if I just take the X guardians who depend on the least amount of stuff, that's probably okay, right?

Version 0.2 will come soonish.

Also, so I don't double post, a question that I'm positive has been answered before but I can't for the life of me find the answer: do Grapple Claw skips work in the Steam version of the game? (Version 1.4.4.2 I believe.) Otherwise I'm going to have to find some way to get Llanfair's hotkeys to work with the DRM-free version.

I just want to preface this by saying I shouldn't have been so naive to think I could make a complete chart in an hour or so :P

@Anonymous52555, @BlueGlass: Thanks for your input; I'll have to modify the chart again. I did try and make it as "simple" as possible: that is, no forward edges on dependencies (it seems I forgot to take out the Crystal Skull -> Diary link.)

I totally forgot about that little boomerang thing in the Chamber of Birth, and the whole lighting the eyes thing in Twin Labyrinths.

I'm guessing there's a pillar skip for getting the Woman Statue then? If everything that you need the Grapple Claw for is also doable with the Earth Spear, then I guess it can be skipped? (Although that's obviously not a good idea in an any% run since you have to go to that room anyway.)

The Peryton skip I'm assuming is exactly the same as the Zu skip, so I'll mark that in.

Totally forgot that you need to actually [i]activate[/i] fairies at endgame, in addition to not even marking the Shrine map on the dep chart; marking them in too.

Since beating Viy is unavoidable (as of yet), they don't have to depend on Key Fairies, so I'm pretty sure you never actually need one.

Is it possible to break the floors for Silver Shield, torude.exe and the ToR ankh jewel with bombs? If so, we don't need to get another weapon that can hit below.

... etc & so on.

There's obviously still so much I have to learn about this game, so thankfully it's interesting enough that I want to. The whole "needing guardians beaten" thing is really hard to express in a chart like this, but I suppose if I just take the X guardians who depend on the least amount of stuff, that's probably okay, right?

Version 0.2 will come soonish.

Also, so I don't double post, a question that I'm positive has been answered before but I can't for the life of me find the answer: do Grapple Claw skips work in the Steam version of the game? (Version 1.4.4.2 I believe.) Otherwise I'm going to have to find some way to get Llanfair's hotkeys to work with the DRM-free version.

BlueGlass

2013-06-17 05:41:37 am

Yep yep yep!

No skipping the pillar for the woman statue, but it can be knocked over with a proper double jump.

You don't actually need the grapple claw for anything; the reason low% is grapple claw or earth spear is because grapple claw can be used to glitch past the one point that requires the spears (though I doubt this holds true for ver 1.4.4.2 and on, since they apparently eliminated most/all of the grapple glitch points).

Key faries wouldn't really count as a separate dependency from activating the faeries in general, which is already required.

On breaking floors, anything besides low% would have and use the knife, and low% would need either spears or (if those are skipped in favor of grapple claw) bombs. Let me tell you, it was more than a bit frustrating trying to figure out where to throw bombs from to break those things.

The thing about labeling MSX2 as needing four specific guardians is that it's not quite accurate, as there's a huge number of variations to the order they can be beaten in, with the only strict requirements being Viy and Amphis needed for Palenque, and Amphis again needed for Tiamat (need to beat Amphis to get yagostr -> crystal skull).

As I've already mentioned, most possibly all grapple glitch points were removed in the latest version. That said, I can't personally confirm thins since I don't have said latest version.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.

No skipping the pillar for the woman statue, but it can be knocked over with a proper double jump.

You don't actually need the grapple claw for anything; the reason low% is grapple claw or earth spear is because grapple claw can be used to glitch past the one point that requires the spears (though I doubt this holds true for ver 1.4.4.2 and on, since they apparently eliminated most/all of the grapple glitch points).

Key faries wouldn't really count as a separate dependency from activating the faeries in general, which is already required.

On breaking floors, anything besides low% would have and use the knife, and low% would need either spears or (if those are skipped in favor of grapple claw) bombs.  Let me tell you, it was more than a bit frustrating trying to figure out where to throw bombs from to break those things.

The thing about labeling MSX2 as needing four specific guardians is that it's not quite accurate, as there's a huge number of variations to the order they can be beaten in, with the only strict requirements being Viy and Amphis needed for Palenque, and Amphis again needed for Tiamat (need to beat Amphis to get yagostr -> crystal skull).

As I've already mentioned, most possibly all grapple glitch points were removed in the latest version.  That said, I can't personally confirm thins since I don't have said latest version.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.

Solairflaire

Edit history:

Solairflaire: 2013-06-17 06:24:38 am

2013-06-17 06:23:37 am

Man, these skips are going to ramp the difficulty of this run up a lot. I will also state that if you put any wall clips into a separate category that you must include all of them. I also wouldn't mind if my run suddenly got shifted over, so don't think it would hurt my feelings at all.

One could get the Ocarina after Flares as well then and not do the obviously insanely difficult looking axe fall from above. Just use the 6 flares on the sun thingy in the Temple of the Sun and get in from there. It would be a little slower, but would be a lot easier.

@Anon: Is it possible for you to make videos of the skips. Visual references are incredibly helpful with doing frame and pixel perfect glitches. Also, can you really get from the bottom of the Twin Labyrinth to the top using the skip before you clear the gas out? That seems illogical to me since the side areas have those odd warps in until you clear the gas.

@TheMaxican: The only advice I can give is practice. I spent a lot of time just practicing the grapple claw. I also used a keyboard because I couldn't get the grapple claw to work very often with a controller. It was just awkward for me.

Man, these skips are going to ramp the difficulty of this run up a lot. I will also state that if you put any wall clips into a separate category that you must include all of them. I also wouldn't mind if my run suddenly got shifted over, so don't think it would hurt my feelings at all.

One could get the Ocarina after Flares as well then and not do the obviously insanely difficult looking axe fall from above. Just use the 6 flares on the sun thingy in the Temple of the Sun and get in from there. It would be a little slower, but would be a lot easier.

@Anon: Is it possible for you to make videos of the skips. Visual references are incredibly helpful with doing frame and pixel perfect glitches. Also, can you really get from the bottom of the Twin Labyrinth to the top using the skip before you clear the gas out? That seems illogical to me since the side areas have those odd warps in until you clear the gas.

@TheMaxican: The only advice I can give is practice. I spent a lot of time just practicing the grapple claw. I also used a keyboard because I couldn't get the grapple claw to work very often with a controller. It was just awkward for me.

Sakako

2013-06-17 06:48:04 am

Alright, so low% is probably going to use spears over grapple claw then, unless there are particular wall-skips which we can use to bypass certain items with the claw.

I'll chuck the key fairies into the main graph too, since that won't be too hard.

What if I just put a note next to MSX2 (which is a hard dependency for the Diary) that you need to have beaten 4 guardians instead, and so on? That way there aren't all these weird arrows going everywhere and stuff.

---

Just as an aside, with all this discussion about Hell Temple, I wonder if any%+hell would be suitable as an additional category, or even just a "Forbidden Treasure" run (like Master Sword is a category for LttP). The way I see it it's like an alternate ending (almost), because you still need to defeat all 8 guardians, collect Medicine, yadda yadda.

theunoriginalname

2013-06-17 04:11:03 pm

Stop making this run harder, it's hard enough as it is Tongue

(kidding obviously)

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-06-17 08:22:49 pm

Traysandor: 2013-06-17 08:20:46 pm

2013-06-17 08:12:32 pm

The original, since 2003.

Um I think this might have been missed, but the Chamber of Birth you not only need Chakrams, but you need to get the Ring from the Twin Labyrinths too. Otherwise the Chakram won't fly far enough to solve the puzzle if you do it from the ladder. Maybe with a perfect jump you could squeeze it through on the right side. But you'd want to pick the Ring up anyways. It only costs a few seconds, and the safety vs. fighting Palenque is more than appreciated (plus the time alone saved by killing Palenque faster probably makes it worth picking up)

On an unrelated note, I've been practicing the any% run on Steam with the updated version. Current best is 2h18m and change, in-game time, with deaths and resets. The biggest difference between the update and the old version is in the Tower of the Goddess, instead of glitching to get the Flail Whip, I go on ahead to the Chamber of Birth to grab the Woman Statue, then go get the Ocarina. You ta;k to the Sage in the Tower of the Goddess and unlock the Flail Whip room normally.

Um I think this might have been missed, but the Chamber of Birth you not only need Chakrams, but you need to get the Ring from the Twin Labyrinths too. Otherwise the Chakram won't fly far enough to solve the puzzle if you do it from the ladder. Maybe with a perfect jump you could squeeze it through on the right side. But you'd want to pick the Ring up anyways. It only costs a few seconds, and the safety vs. fighting Palenque is more than appreciated (plus the time alone saved by killing Palenque faster probably makes it worth picking up)

On an unrelated note, I've been practicing the any% run on Steam with the updated version. Current best is 2h18m and change, in-game time, with deaths and resets. The biggest difference between the update and the old version is in the Tower of the Goddess, instead of glitching to get the Flail Whip, I go on ahead to the Chamber of Birth to grab the Woman Statue, then go get the Ocarina. You ta;k to the Sage in the Tower of the Goddess and unlock the Flail Whip room normally.

BlueGlass

2013-06-17 08:29:24 pm

Yep yep yep!

I think putting Hell Tempe into 100% is enough already. No need to make up an arbitrary category for it.

As for the ring, you're right that any% would still grab it, but a properly timed throw lets you skip it for low%.

Sakako

2013-06-17 10:58:46 pm

@Traysandor, BlueGlass is right, I've actually made that shot without the Ring before. It's really counterintuitive but you can get it pretty consistently if you time it right.

2h18 on Steam version seems pretty good to me though!

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-06-19 11:17:06 pm

Traysandor: 2013-06-19 11:09:23 pm

2013-06-19 11:05:30 pm

The original, since 2003.

@Sasako: I did die and reset a fair few times doing that, and had to refer to a text file for when I needed a reminder of what to do next, though I do have pretty much most of the route memorized. (I copy/pasted the any% route onto Notepad that someone I think posted earlier in this thread) but it was done in one sitting, with breaks.

And I'm sure it was far from optimal, because a few things were out of order, and I had to money grind once (The extra money went to buying MSX2, which pretty much means you won't have any software issues for the rest of the game. You can equip reader, death/move, mirai, yagomap/str, and torude(mantra) all at once without having to shuffle software around except switching torude for mantra)

I'll consider myself really good if I can grind that down to around, or even under 2 hours in game time.

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2013-06-20 10:55:11 am

2013-06-20 10:54:24 am

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Here's a video of the twin labyrinths glitch from the TAS guys for those who want it.

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-06-21 09:00:36 pm

Traysandor: 2013-06-21 08:59:27 pm

2013-06-21 08:57:53 pm

The original, since 2003.

So yeah, yesterday I was running the remake again, and I got super lucky -- I got the fastest Viy kill probably ever recorded.

So after taking the tentacles out, the eye popped up, and I scored 11 Axe hits on it. Pretty neat right?

But instead of throwing a laser at me like it almost always does, the eye popped out AGAIN! I swiftly murdered it with the extra 5 Axe hits required to obliterate it! I wasn't even trying, and that gem of a fight just dropped into my lap.

So on an unrelated note, tonight I finished another Any% Steam Version run... 2:01:12! Blah, so close too *cries* (I had an amazing Mom fight and my best Escape time yet (1:55.19 from Mom to Exit) and it wasn't enough!) ... I'll have to go re-visit the middle sections of the game to see if I can find a minute and 13 seconds to save somewhere.

Sakako

2013-06-22 01:56:33 am

I wonder if it would be worth revisiting getting extra Gun ammo for the Mother fight? She apparently dies pretty hard to bullets, you could probably save a minute or so there?

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-06-22 10:41:15 am

Traysandor: 2013-06-22 10:39:12 am

Traysandor: 2013-06-22 09:24:58 am

Traysandor: 2013-06-22 09:16:09 am

2013-06-22 09:11:56 am

The original, since 2003.

@Sakako: It's worth a thought, though after buying Torude I'm not sure you can scrape together enough money to buy a box of ammo at 350-400 coins between buying Torude and the end of the game. Though if you bombed out the secret wall and took a second coin chest (for 130 Coins for 2 chests) on the way to fighting Nuwa you probably could get enough to buy more bullets, but then you'd have to pretty much forego Flares in the final battle. I think skipping the coin chests and using Flares on the final form of Mother is faster overall though. I'm not even sure you save time by getting enough money to buy Pistol ammo vs. buying Flares, but if you want to test it out to see if it's actually faster, go for it.

Alternatively, I tested something out last night for the fourth form of Mother (the eyeball phase). Turns out Chakrams work pretty well and don't cause the eye to run away. I will go back and re-test this to double check. It takes 6 hits with the Chakram for it to go on to the final form, I think. (It also takes exactly 6 Pistol Shots, so if you got the Pistol ammo, you could quick kill this phase)

Edit: After testing, the eye phase chases after you if you use only the Chakrams. So I think an effective quick kill strategy with it is to take out the tentacles and score a hit or two with the Flail Whip, then use Chakrams to finish it off.

@Sakako: It's worth a thought, though after buying Torude I'm not sure you can scrape together enough money to buy a box of ammo at 350-400 coins between buying Torude and the end of the game. Though if you bombed out the secret wall and took a second coin chest (for 130 Coins for 2 chests) on the way to fighting Nuwa you probably could get enough to buy more bullets, but then you'd have to pretty much forego Flares in the final battle.  I think skipping the coin chests and using Flares on the final form of Mother is faster overall though. I'm not even sure you save time by getting enough money to buy Pistol ammo vs. buying Flares, but if you want to test it out to see if it's actually faster, go for it.

Alternatively, I tested something out last night for the fourth form of Mother (the eyeball phase). Turns out Chakrams work pretty well and don't cause the eye to run away. I will go back and re-test this to double check.  It takes 6 hits with the Chakram for it to go on to the final form, I think. (It also takes exactly 6 Pistol Shots, so if you got the Pistol ammo, you could quick kill this phase)

Edit: After testing, the eye phase chases after you if you use only the Chakrams. So I think an effective quick kill strategy with it is to take out the tentacles and score a hit or two with the Flail Whip, then use Chakrams to finish it off.

Sakako

2013-06-22 01:07:31 pm

Alright. So I think the next thing on my list of things to do (after I finish v0.2 of the deps chart) is to make a list of every single pot and money chest in the game, for optimal route planning.

I'm not quite up to the stage of running the game yet, but I've been following DeliciousPi's 2:09 route pretty closely (just as an intro) and I'm probably up to a 30 minute Bahamut run.

Solairflaire

2013-06-22 10:59:38 pm

I had completely forgotten that the room with the Hippogryph gets enemies in it after you kill it and come back. It's been so long since I revisited that room like that.

Is there a Pot guide for the original anywhere? I remember it being talked about there being one somewhere in this thread, but I can't find it.

Traysandor

2013-06-22 11:35:59 pm

The original, since 2003.

1 hour 58 minutes 11 seconds!

I've done it, cracked Steam Version Any% in under 2 hours (In-Game-Time)

Okay, I lost probably 10 seconds of time to Escape trolling, but whatever, I'm happy now.

Also, that strategy I posted above for Mother's Eye Form (Kill tentacles with chain whip, hit eye, then finish with Chakrams) worked pretty well when I tried it. Future remake runners should take note of this to save a couple seconds in future runs.

Sakako

Edit history:

Sakako: 2013-06-23 05:13:55 am

2013-06-23 05:12:11 am

@Solairflaire, here's the pot guide for the original: http://lamulana.wikia.com/wiki/Pot_Location_Guide Smiley

Also great job Traysandor!

Traysandor

2013-06-23 10:51:45 am

The original, since 2003.

Also I thought of something else that can probably save like 10 seconds in the remake run:

Did you know you can buy Flares in the Tower of Ruin shop for 50 coins? (The same shop that you buy Torude.exe in)

This means that A. You do not have to solve the floor switch puzzle in the Temple of the Sun (When you go to remove the Moon early in the game) and B. Instead of going to purchase Flares when you pick up the ABUTO mantra, instead you do so immediately after killing Nuwa.

You pick up the Djed Pillar, and when you warp back to the Tower of Ruin to refill the Lamp of Time to skip Beezlebub, you can hop up to the Torude shop to buy your Flares there instead. Yes, the Flares in the Torude shop cost 50 coins instead of the Temple of the Sun's 40, but I think the slight optimization woud save several seconds in the end.

You don't pick up any notable money between Nuwa and the end of the game, so the only difference is the coin cost and how many Flares you had left after obliterating Tiamat.

Also I thought of something else that can probably save like 10 seconds in the remake run:

Did you know you can buy Flares in the Tower of Ruin shop for 50 coins? (The same shop that you buy Torude.exe in)

This means that A. You do not have to solve the floor switch puzzle in the Temple of the Sun (When you go to remove the Moon early in the game) and B. Instead of going to purchase Flares when you pick up the ABUTO mantra, instead you do so immediately after killing Nuwa.

You pick up the Djed Pillar, and when you warp back to the Tower of Ruin to refill the Lamp of Time to skip Beezlebub, you can hop up to the Torude shop to buy your Flares there instead. Yes, the Flares in the Torude shop cost 50 coins instead of the Temple of the Sun's 40, but I think the slight optimization woud save several seconds in the end.

You don't pick up any notable money between Nuwa and the end of the game, so the only difference is the coin cost and how many Flares you had left after obliterating Tiamat.