La-Mulana

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-05-12 11:50:55 am

Traysandor: 2013-05-12 11:49:52 am

Traysandor: 2013-05-12 11:39:29 am

2013-05-12 11:37:17 am

The original, since 2003.

Also, I've now found a use for that 5th and final Bomb you get. in the La-Mulana Remake any% speedrun

So you use three to unlock the 30 coin chest in the Temple of the Sun while impregnating the Woman Statue, one for unlocking the Lamp of Time, So what happens to the other one?

After you kill Ox-Head and Horse Face, tap the machine to make it move. When you get up to the Surface, you climb the long ladder. But before you go on to the Tower of Ruin to fight Nuwa, you can send your final bomb to the right by the long ladder there. (It's where the Pistol was in the original game)... anyway, instead of the pistol, you unlock a coin chest with a bunch of money inside. 100 coins, looks like. I know it probably wouldn't make much of a difference that late in the game, but consider it insurance, you can buy a few extra Flares before you go fight Mother.

Alternatively, if you'd rather prefer, you can actually delay buying torude.exe in the shop in the Tower of Ruin, and go pick it up right after you kil Nuwa on a Lamp of time refill trip (since torude isn't used for anything other than getting Mantra.exe, I don't think there's anything else in the any% route that needs it until you're ready to get mantra.exe)

Also, I've now found a use for that 5th and final Bomb you get. in the La-Mulana Remake any% speedrun

So you use three to unlock the 30 coin chest in the Temple of the Sun while impregnating the Woman Statue, one for unlocking the Lamp of Time, So what happens to the other one?

After you kill Ox-Head and Horse Face, tap the machine to make it move.  When you get up to the Surface, you climb the long ladder. But before you go on to the Tower of Ruin to fight Nuwa, you can send your final bomb to the right by the long ladder there. (It's where the Pistol was in the original game)... anyway, instead of the pistol, you unlock a coin chest with a bunch of money inside. 100 coins, looks like. I know it probably wouldn't make much of a difference that late in the game, but consider it insurance, you can buy a few extra Flares before you go fight Mother.

Alternatively, if you'd rather prefer, you can actually delay buying torude.exe in the shop in the Tower of Ruin, and go pick it up right after you kil Nuwa on a Lamp of time refill trip (since torude isn't used for anything other than getting Mantra.exe, I don't think there's anything else in the any% route that needs it until you're ready to get mantra.exe)

BlueGlass

2013-05-12 04:55:35 pm

Yep yep yep!

Another use to consider is opening up the wall in Graveyard of Giants. Assuming someone hasn't already done so, we'll need to time and see if it's faster to reach the mantra tablet from the Graveyard grail point or the Tower of the Goddess grail point.

Also, if it hasn't been tested already, what about using those bombs against some of the bosses/minibosses? If there's one that has a very short/no invincibility time, four bombs could take off a nice chunk of health.

In other news, I realized that my discovery of using the grapple claw glitch to skip the Twin Labyrinths minibosses is entirely useless, as the same effect can be achieved faster and with less effort using the time lamp.

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-05-12 07:30:16 pm

Traysandor: 2013-05-12 07:26:32 pm

Traysandor: 2013-05-12 07:23:17 pm

Traysandor: 2013-05-12 07:13:02 pm

Traysandor: 2013-05-12 07:05:51 pm

Traysandor: 2013-05-12 06:59:45 pm

2013-05-12 06:56:00 pm

The original, since 2003.

Well, in the current speedrun route for the remake, the only bombs the player ever gets are the 5 initial ones you're given when you first obtain the subweapon. Out of which one is absolutely required to get the Lamp of Time. the others don't do anything other than opening coin secrets (30 in Impregnation Room and 100 at the surace Long Ladder on the way to Nuwa), a shortcut, or a miniboss quick kill maybe.

As for obtaining more, I'm looking around, but I don't see any areas listed that have more Bombs besides buying them in the shops. There's one listed as being in a secret area in the Gate of Illusion (A-4), but I seriously doubt that's on the path. If you were going to build a route around more bomb usage, getting more bombs would have to be found somewhere in the ruins... but I don't think it would necessarily be any faster.

Another thought is that if you don't really need the 30 coins from the Temple of the sun while waiting for the woman Statue to become pregnant, then you could try to see if using those three bombs could either quick kill a miniboss, or open up the Graveyard of Giants shortcut.

On an unrelated note, today I conquered the remake on Hard Mode in just over 5 hours. It was pretty awesome, and surprising that I killed the final boss on my 4th try. It took me 5 to get her the first time on Normal mode (Sldo Normal mode took me 9 hours and I got stuck a few times ;p )

Also, just for fun, I have a file saved with all the stuff you can haul out of the temple before you have to activate/ kill a boss on Hard Mode in the remake: (Useful for the Steam achievement)

MAX HP = 224 (Possible to get 256 but then you have to fight Zu without a time Lamp... good luck~)

Grail Points: Surface, Gate of Guidance, Giant's Mausoleum, Temple of the Sun, Spring in the Sky, Inferno Cavern, Chamber of Extinction, Endless Corridor, Temple of Moonlight, and Twin Labyrinths (Reverse Side)

Main Weapons: Chain Whip, Knife, Axe

Sub-Weapons: Shuriken, Rolling Shuriken, Flares, Chakram, Caltrops, Gun, Ankh Jewel x4

Usable Items: Hand Scanner

Items: MSX, Waterproof Case. Heatproof Case, Shell horn, Glove, Holy Grail, Isis' Pendant, Crucifix, Helmet, Graple Claw, Bronze Mirror, Scalesphere, Hermes Sandals, Ice Cape.

Seals: Origin, Birth, Life

Software: reader, xmailer, yagomap, bunemon, bunplus, guild, randc, capstar, mekuri

Well, in the current speedrun route for the remake, the only bombs the player ever gets are the 5 initial ones you're given when you first obtain the subweapon. Out of which one is absolutely required to get the Lamp of Time. the others don't do anything other than opening coin secrets (30 in Impregnation Room and 100 at the surace Long Ladder on the way to Nuwa), a shortcut, or a miniboss quick kill maybe.

As for obtaining more, I'm looking around, but I don't see any areas listed that have more Bombs besides buying them in the shops. There's one listed as being in a secret area in the Gate of Illusion (A-4), but I seriously doubt that's on the path.  If you were going to build a route around more bomb usage, getting more bombs would have to be found somewhere in the ruins... but I don't think it would necessarily be any faster.

Another thought is that if you don't really need the 30 coins from the Temple of the sun while waiting for the woman Statue to become pregnant, then you could try to see if using those three bombs could either quick kill a miniboss, or open up the Graveyard of Giants shortcut.

On an unrelated note, today I conquered the remake on Hard Mode in just over 5 hours.  It was pretty awesome, and surprising that I killed the final boss on my 4th try. It took me 5 to get her the first time on Normal mode (Sldo Normal mode took me 9 hours and I got stuck a few times ;p )

Also, just for fun, I have a file saved with all the stuff you can haul out of the temple before you have to activate/ kill a boss on Hard Mode in the remake:  (Useful for the Steam achievement)

[hidden] MAX HP = 224 (Possible to get 256 but then you have to fight Zu without a time Lamp... good luck~)

Grail Points: Surface, Gate of Guidance, Giant's Mausoleum, Temple of the Sun, Spring in the Sky, Inferno Cavern, Chamber of Extinction, Endless Corridor, Temple of Moonlight, and Twin Labyrinths (Reverse Side)

Main Weapons: Chain Whip, Knife, Axe

Sub-Weapons: Shuriken, Rolling Shuriken, Flares, Chakram, Caltrops, Gun, Ankh Jewel x4

Usable Items: Hand Scanner

Items: MSX, Waterproof Case.  Heatproof Case,  Shell horn, Glove, Holy Grail, Isis' Pendant, Crucifix, Helmet, Graple Claw, Bronze Mirror, Scalesphere, Hermes Sandals, Ice Cape.

Seals: Origin, Birth, Life

Software: reader, xmailer, yagomap, bunemon, bunplus, guild, randc, capstar, mekuri
[/hidden]

BlueGlass

2013-05-12 11:33:28 pm

Yep yep yep!

AFAIK, the only pot with bombs in the whole game is in Tower of the Goddess A-4, which is way too far out of the way for an any% run.

That item list of yours is also missing a good chunk of stuff: by going through the Gate of Time to Tower of the Goddess, you can get the Eye of Truth, Flail Whip (though not in the latest version), Plane Model, Woman Statue (and Maternity Statue), Tower of Ruin Life and Ankh Jewels, Earth Spears, Silver Shield, Fruit of Eden, Pepper/Treasure/Anchor, Mini Doll, Fairy Clothes, Endless Key, Key Sword, and Twin Statue, not to mention you can buy the Dragon Skull whenever you want.

In terms of grail points, you can add Tower of the Goddess, Tower of Ruin, Graveyard of Giants, and Gate of Illusion. For software, you can get Torude, Move, Death Village (which you can get right at the start of the game), and Bounce. Unfortunately, at that point you need Mulbruk awake to go any further, so you can get the Book of the Dead to kill Anubis for the Serpent Staff, and waking her up requires at least one Guardian kill.

AFAIK, the only pot with bombs in the whole game is in Tower of the Goddess A-4, which is way too far out of the way for an any% run.

That item list of yours is also missing a good chunk of stuff: by going through the Gate of Time to Tower of the Goddess, you can get the Eye of Truth, Flail Whip (though not in the latest version), Plane Model, Woman Statue (and Maternity Statue), Tower of Ruin Life and Ankh Jewels, Earth Spears, Silver Shield, Fruit of Eden, Pepper/Treasure/Anchor, Mini Doll, Fairy Clothes, Endless Key, Key Sword, and Twin Statue, not to mention you can buy the Dragon Skull whenever you want.

In terms of grail points, you can add Tower of the Goddess, Tower of Ruin, Graveyard of Giants, and Gate of Illusion.  For software, you can get Torude, Move, Death Village (which you can get right at the start of the game), and Bounce.  Unfortunately, at that point you need Mulbruk awake to go any further, so you can get the Book of the Dead to kill Anubis for the Serpent Staff, and waking her up requires at least one Guardian kill.

Traysandor

2013-05-13 12:20:12 pm

The original, since 2003.

Ah, I thought you needed Double Jump to access anything good in the Gate of Tiime... but then again, I never found the secret entrance to Tower f the Goddess, so yeah.
Also, why I never picked up deahv is beyond me. I thought I grabbed everything there was to grab, but I guess not. Regardless, it was more for fun than actual run worthiness.

Now that I'm done Normal and Hard Mode, I should work on the Any% route (no Fairy's clothes for Hell Temple). Either that or Hell Temple on Hard Mode. (Going to unlock as many Steam Achievements I can for it =3)

Anonymous52555

2013-05-13 09:25:37 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

A hell temple route is actually fairly simple.

Part 1: Go through the top and then drop at B3, sleep, leave and refill the lamp.
Part 2: Use the shortcut and go through the second set using the lamp to kill mussusu, get the check point, drop into the land of hell 3 and sleep, leave and refill the lamp.
Part 3: Drop into the land of hell 4 and sleep then drop into 5 and sleep then beat 5 and come back up and drop into 2 and sleep.
Part 4: Go to the tablet room
Part 5: Go to the top parts face then get the other faces and go to the tablet room and read the tablet
Part 6: Open up the last puzzle then finish hell temple. Use the lamp on the minibosses for the worm and bull.

This route can get you through hell temple in about 18-19 minutes.

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-05-13 09:35:32 pm

2013-05-13 09:35:08 pm

The original, since 2003.

I've been wondering, after you activate the fairies, would it actually be faster if you got an Item Fairy and grinded for money once in the Chamber of Extinction instead of running around and collecting coins from pots and boss kills. Also, it would take a bit of luck to get it to spawn quickly. (Thought: Maybe instead of Spring in the Sky you could get it to spawn in one of the other spots you pick up a Fairy along the way, but you only get a few shots at it)

For the record, assume that a grinding trip to the chamber of Extinction would probably be 2-3 minutes long, but it would net you somewhere between 400-500 coins. So in that retrospect, the coin pots you skip and boss money you don't pick up would have to save at least that much to be worth it.

Might not even save any time at al, but just throwing it out there as a possibility. I know the run is only starved for money in the first half, but if there's something that could help, I'm all for it.

BlueGlass

2013-05-14 12:19:55 am

Yep yep yep!

Personally, I liked the RTA's strat of picking up a luck fairy before going for the Feather. You could, with a little luck, pick it up just before going to fight Anubis, since you have some time to waste after hitting the Fruit of Eden point just below the fairy point. As far as other fairy points go, Spring in the Sky wouldn't work because you're always in the middle of doing something when you go there, Extinction Chamber simply has too tight a timing to get offscreen if it's the wrong fairy (though segmented could definitely use it), and the others are either too far off-route or not available until later in the run.

On top of that, the coins you can get along the route are certainly enough to satisfy the requirements of an any% run, making CHamber of Extinction grinding much too large of a detour. For 100% it could be useful, but I doubt it.

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-05-14 07:51:55 pm

Traysandor: 2013-05-14 07:47:58 pm

Traysandor: 2013-05-14 07:42:20 pm

2013-05-14 07:40:03 pm

The original, since 2003.

I was pretty sure that wasn't the case anyways. For 100% if you really had to do a coin grinding session, you might as well wait until you've gotten miracle + capstar (guaranteed Item Fairy combo), and the Bracelet from the shop in the Twin Labyrinths. Doing that you're almost guaranteed at least 900 coins from one farming trip trough the Chamber of Extinction, which should be plenty enough to buy anything you'd miss if there isn't enough money for an efficient 100% run. and whatever you don't spend can be thrown into getting more subweapon ammo like Chakrams, Flares, and such.

Alternatively, for segmented 100% you make a good point in that getting the Luck Fairy from the Temple of Moonlight would make the most sense f you only need in the range of like 500-ish coins (Besides what you find around in the ruins) to 100% the game.

Anonymous52555

2013-05-14 08:11:21 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

As far as 100% goes; you need a luck fairy early on so you can get about 400 coins from the feather part. Then coins actually aren't a problem until around the Dimensional Corridor to which I grind about 999 coins and I am able to buy everything else in the game.

Traysandor

2013-05-14 11:04:18 pm

The original, since 2003.

Curious, are there any 100% RTAs of the remake around the Net yet? I found a few any% ones on youtube, but was more curious to see if anyone had done a 100% speedrun yet. (Posting a link would be appreciated too if it exists, or it's still being worked on that's fine too.)

Anonymous52555

2013-05-15 01:31:30 am

Metroidvanias are God Tier

There was one by szsk (The guy who did the rta for the original) on twitch but it's gone now.

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-05-16 08:38:09 am

Traysandor: 2013-05-16 08:27:37 am

2013-05-16 08:27:05 am

The original, since 2003.

GHm, thought I found something disatrous concering any% and Hell Temple, but just turns out I think I just forgot to talk to Mulbruk. You still need to knock out that block in the Gate of Guidace (C-4) to continue the Hell Temple quest.

BlueGlass

2013-05-18 06:20:27 am

Yep yep yep!

Wait, why are you doing Hell Temple in any%? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Traysandor

Edit history:

Traysandor: 2013-05-18 09:56:47 pm

2013-05-18 09:53:04 pm

The original, since 2003.

I dunno, just throwing the suggestion out there. In case you're some sort of masochist that thinks La-Mulana is too easy or something... I know there's probably someone out there crazy enough to try it =p

For the record, I can't make that jump with the spike shaft in Hell Temple, so I'm stuck there. Tried the damage boost method, but all I seem to accomplish is eating spikes and falling to Land of Hell 4.

Anonymous52555

2013-05-18 10:58:41 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

The thing is, you don't need to do hell temple for an any% run, that's really just for 100%

For the spike shaft, just throw a bomb at yourself with the deathv.exe and move.exe equipped and jump down and you should be fine. Alternatively there is a pixel perfect spot you can be at where you fall straight through all the spikes.

Traysandor

2013-05-23 11:38:59 pm

The original, since 2003.

I finally figured out the damage boost, yeah. Tonight Hell Temple was finally conquered by me, and I now own an achievement shared by 0.4% of Steam users who own the game (Yeah, I went through the whole thing without the Fairy's Clothes) ;p

Anyway, back to the main point, looks like the only thing absolutely required to beat Hell Temple if you wanted to any% it is guild.exe. though lamulana.exe is strongly recommended to power your whip up.

TheMaxican

Edit history:

TheMaxican: 2013-06-03 11:56:37 pm

2013-06-03 11:53:47 pm

Break through the final confusion

Hello again, everyone!

Well, as has become standard for me to say... sorry about the wait! Yeah, real life caught up to me pretty bad the last few weeks, so I haven't really been able to make any attempts since I last posted about it. And, also as usual, I can do nothing but to thank you all for bearing with me - as I've said many times before, I'm not giving up on this run! Smiley

The GOOD news is that this has culminated in an everyday schedule (for reasons too complex to go into here) where I'll actually be up pretty late, which means that I'll randomly have many more opportunities to try and record segments. Probably not much during the weekdays realistically (although I hope to get attempts here and there), but I'm hoping I definitely have more weekend opportunities than I used to. So although as usual I can't really promise anything, I HOPE that you'll be hearing a lot more from me in the coming weeks. Smiley

The BAD news... is that I don't have a new segment to show you right now, haha. Yep, I actually gave it a good shot yesterday but I'm going to need a LITTLE more time... there's a lot of tricky maneuvers in this next one. So yeah, hopefully soon.

I DO have a question, however. So I was finally able to test out the whole keyboard re-mapping thing, which seemed like it was going to work really well. Then I try it... and IT DIDN'T WORK! Like, at all. The mantra would ONLY work if I typed the "original" keys on the keyboard, and not any other keys, even if they returned the same value!
So, um... can someone please explain this one to me? I'm just doing the normal Windows XP registry trick (which most "remap" programs actually use under the hood) to make it so that one key just returns a different value than it's supposed to. Yet for some reason La-Mulana wouldn't buy it! Can someone else give it a shot, and let me know if you could get it to work? Because if not, then I'm actually going to have to deal with sub-optimal mantra chanting! Granted there's not that much of it, but still...

EDIT: Right, forgot to mention: zem, I tried what you said about the overlapping keys (man, that was like 3 months ago, haha...) and it looks like it's not that - it's just REALLY picky about typing it, to the point where you can simply type it too fast for it to process, I guess. It's hard to tell exactly how to type it consistently fast, but you essentially have to "enunciate" the word when you type it. If anyone has any other input, I'd be glad to hear it. Smiley

Thanks!

(Also, completely random non-run question: would any of you that have played the Steam version recommend buying it when I already have the WiiWare version? Just wondering if it's worth the cash for Hell Temple and the like; I'm not planning on running it or anything, it'd be just for fun, and to support Nigoro and such. Thanks!)

Hello again, everyone!

Well, as has become standard for me to say... sorry about the wait! Yeah, real life caught up to me pretty bad the last few weeks, so I haven't really been able to make any attempts since I last posted about it. And, also as usual, I can do nothing but to thank you all for bearing with me - as I've said many times before, I'm not giving up on this run! :)
The GOOD news is that this has culminated in an everyday schedule (for reasons too complex to go into here) where I'll actually be up pretty late, which means that I'll randomly have many more opportunities to try and record segments. Probably not much during the weekdays realistically (although I hope to get attempts here and there), but I'm hoping I definitely have more weekend opportunities than I used to. So although as usual I can't really promise anything, I HOPE that you'll be hearing a lot more from me in the coming weeks. :)

The BAD news... is that I don't have a new segment to show you right now, haha. Yep, I actually gave it a good shot yesterday but I'm going to need a LITTLE more time... there's a lot of tricky maneuvers in this next one. So yeah, hopefully soon.

I DO have a question, however. So I was finally able to test out the whole keyboard re-mapping thing, which seemed like it was going to work really well. Then I try it... and IT DIDN'T WORK! Like, at all. The mantra would ONLY work if I typed the "original" keys on the keyboard, and not any other keys, even if they returned the same value!
So, um... can someone please explain this one to me? I'm just doing the normal Windows XP registry trick (which most "remap" programs actually use under the hood) to make it so that one key just returns a different value than it's supposed to. Yet for some reason La-Mulana wouldn't buy it! Can someone else give it a shot, and let me know if you could get it to work? Because if not, then I'm actually going to have to deal with sub-optimal mantra chanting! Granted there's not that much of it, but still...

EDIT: Right, forgot to mention: zem, I tried what you said about the overlapping keys (man, that was like 3 months ago, haha...) and it looks like it's not that - it's just REALLY picky about typing it, to the point where you can simply type it too fast for it to process, I guess. It's hard to tell exactly how to type it consistently fast, but you essentially have to "enunciate" the word when you type it. If anyone has any other input, I'd be glad to hear it. :)

Thanks!

(Also, completely random non-run question: would any of you that have played the Steam version recommend buying it when I already have the WiiWare version? Just wondering if it's worth the cash for Hell Temple and the like; I'm not planning on running it or anything, it'd be just for fun, and to support Nigoro and such. Thanks!)

tjp7154

2013-06-07 03:26:49 pm

#Casual

Welp, I know I don't run La Mulana, but I saw this on Tasvideos. Have fun (should be console doable, but that's for YOU to try out):

http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11414&start=60

BlueGlass

2013-06-07 09:38:00 pm

Yep yep yep!

Well, we always knew enemy wallclips were TAS-possible. Now that we have an explanation that confirms them to be pixel-perfect and frame-perfect, it's safe to say it's not happening humanly without segmentation and at least 10000 resets.

Anonymous52555

2013-06-08 01:28:42 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Sorry I've been away for while so I didn't post about this sooner but my computer has been all wonky with certain websites. First off about the wall glitches, They are very much possible in real runs. I can confirm three places in the game where we can glitch without wasting more than a 10-20 seconds.

First in the confusion gate, you can skip the anchor. How it is done in real time:
Grapple onto wall above the ladder.
Wait for the lizard to pass by.
As soon as the lizard starts climbing the ladder you let go of the up key while still holding right and you will get stuck in the wall. To make this easier you can rapidly press pause until the lizard starts to climb.

Second in the inferno cavern. In the room 1 room below the twin labyrinths with all the lava pits if you take the seeker guy and circle him around the top left corner you can get stuck in that corner extremely easily, you don't even need to pause the game it's really easy. What do we gain from this? Well we can get into the twin labyrinths before the twin statues are needed. Basically a Lamp of time, a ring and the backside rom are up for grabs. You can't do much in there though but those are definitely worth it.

The third and probably the hardest to pull off is in the tower of the goddess. In the video posted in tjp's link it does show him glitching to the top of the tower. This is also possible in real time if you use a monkeybirdthing, bring him over to the far left and then time your fall on the wall with his magic shots and you can get it. Once again this one is really hard to pull off compared to the others and actually benefits us the least out of the three but it's there and I've been able to do it with a 60% success rate. I'm sure with practice I could get it to a 90% but you know.

The first two are definitely worth doing. I've actually gone and rerouted the game a bunch to fit these glitches. Although it's not solid yet as I need to rework the weights, the gist of it is basically we hold off on the endless key until it's time for the flywheel and we go to the twin labyrinths right after argus. This allows for early backside access and it reduces a few side trips throughout the game. This route also lets you hold out on fighting amphis until the end so you are even more overpowered for the fight Cheesy

I'll probably have it all done by tomorrow so yeah.

Sorry I've been away for while so I didn't post about this sooner but my computer has been all wonky with certain websites. First off about the wall glitches, They are very much possible in real runs. I can confirm three places in the game where we can glitch without wasting more than a 10-20 seconds.

First in the confusion gate, you can skip the anchor. How it is done in real time:
Grapple onto wall above the ladder.
Wait for the lizard to pass by.
As soon as the lizard starts climbing the ladder you let go of the up key while still holding right and you will get stuck in the wall. To make this easier you can rapidly press pause until the lizard starts to climb.

Second in the inferno cavern. In the room 1 room below the twin labyrinths with all the lava pits if you take the seeker guy and circle him around the top left corner you can get stuck in that corner extremely easily, you don't even need to pause the game it's really easy. What do we gain from this? Well we can get into the twin labyrinths before the twin statues are needed. Basically a Lamp of time, a ring and the backside rom are up for grabs. You can't do much in there though but those are definitely worth it.

The third and probably the hardest to pull off is in the tower of the goddess. In the video posted in tjp's link it does show him glitching to the top of the tower. This is also possible in real time if you use a monkeybirdthing, bring him over to the far left and then time your fall on the wall with his magic shots and you can get it. Once again this one is really hard to pull off compared to the others and actually benefits us the least out of the three but it's there and I've been able to do it with a 60% success rate. I'm sure with practice I could get it to a 90% but you know.

The first two are definitely worth doing. I've actually gone and rerouted the game a bunch to fit these glitches. Although it's not solid yet as I need to rework the weights, the gist of it is basically we hold off on the endless key until it's time for the flywheel and we go to the twin labyrinths right after argus. This allows for early backside access and it reduces a few side trips throughout the game. This route also lets you hold out on fighting amphis until the end so you are even more overpowered for the fight :D I'll probably have it all done by tomorrow so yeah.

TheMaxican

Edit history:

TheMaxican: 2013-06-09 01:52:36 am

2013-06-09 01:40:38 am

Break through the final confusion

Lol, I was going to try all these out before posting, and I just realized I've spent like the last hour trying these out, and I didn't get any of them even once! Even the inferno cavern one that Anon said was easiest - I tried that one the most and I never got it, hehe. Anon, you'll have to teach me your mad skills. Smiley

Thanks for the link, tjp! That was a fun watch. Good to hear the TAS guys are starting to figure this one out. Hopefully will lead to some insane TAS times down the line.

But yes, I'm with BlueGlass on this one, at least for my own run. I unfortunately have two very big weaknesses - one is "pixel-perfect ANYTHING" and the other is "frame-perfect ANYTHING." So, hearing the TAS guys describe this as a "pixel perfect, frame perfect trick" essentially translates to "TheMaxican can't do it." Smiley

Well, the good news is that it actually doesn't sound like these save much time in a 100% run anyway, since I have to get all these items I'd be going through the trouble of skipping. So yes, unless someone discovers a much easier way to do this (or simply a HUGE skip that justifies the time spent to skip items and then go back and get the later), I'm going to have to leave these to someone much, much more skilled than I... Smiley

But I like Anon's way of approaching it though - try to find places where we can minimize the luck involved. I'm sure we'll find at least a couple more. I'm sure they won't ever be as easy as the Endless Corridor skip (which even I screw up a bunch, haha), but hopefully they'll at least be doable with practice (and it sounds like Anon is getting the hang of it, so that's good!). Smiley

Anon, this new route you were talking about, was this for the low% or any%? I'm about to start watching Solairflaire's amazing run again and it'd be sad if he had to scrap the whole thing...

EDIT: Forgot to mention, watching TAS runs of this game is extremely fun. Smiley

I wish I could destroy jars with 3 hits in midair without having to stop, haha. And the Viy kill from the same link that tpj posted was just too awesome.

Lol, I was going to try all these out before posting, and I just realized I've spent like the last hour trying these out, and I didn't get any of them even once! Even the inferno cavern one that Anon said was easiest - I tried that one the most and I never got it, hehe. Anon, you'll have to teach me your mad skills. :)

Thanks for the link, tjp! That was a fun watch. Good to hear the TAS guys are starting to figure this one out. Hopefully will lead to some insane TAS times down the line.

But yes, I'm with BlueGlass on this one, at least for my own run. I unfortunately have two very big weaknesses - one is "pixel-perfect ANYTHING" and the other is "frame-perfect ANYTHING." So, hearing the TAS guys describe this as a "pixel perfect, frame perfect trick" essentially translates to "TheMaxican can't do it." :) Well, the good news is that it actually doesn't sound like these save much time in a 100% run anyway, since I have to get all these items I'd be going through the trouble of skipping. So yes, unless someone discovers a much easier way to do this (or simply a HUGE skip that justifies the time spent to skip items and then go back and get the later), I'm going to have to leave these to someone much, much more skilled than I... :)

But I like Anon's way of approaching it though - try to find places where we can minimize the luck involved. I'm sure we'll find at least a couple more. I'm sure they won't ever be as easy as the Endless Corridor skip (which even I screw up a bunch, haha), but hopefully they'll at least be doable with practice (and it sounds like Anon is getting the hang of it, so that's good!). :)

Anon, this new route you were talking about, was this for the low% or any%? I'm about to start watching Solairflaire's amazing run again and it'd be sad if he had to scrap the whole thing...

EDIT: Forgot to mention, watching TAS runs of this game is extremely fun. :) I wish I could destroy jars with 3 hits in midair without having to stop, haha. And the Viy kill from the same link that tpj posted was just too awesome.

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2013-06-09 10:15:19 am

Anonymous52555: 2013-06-09 10:13:56 am

Anonymous52555: 2013-06-09 10:08:50 am

Anonymous52555: 2013-06-09 09:01:23 am

2013-06-09 09:00:12 am

Metroidvanias are God Tier

@TheMaxican This is for any%

Ok basically it turns out the timesavers aren't super fantastic but they are still timesavers. Because of certain obstacles that I forgot about these tricks are just slight changes in the run rather than a new route entirely. Here are the changes:

During your first visit to the mausoleum when you activate stars go to the endless corridor, grab the three coin pots there then glitch to the lower part and grab the 100 coin pot. Warp back and buy 3 sets of weights and you should just make it through until the surface 20.

Hold off on fighting amphis for a while

In the confusion gate glitch to skip the anchor, do the lizard puzzle and read the grail. Then come back down and get the 100 coins and go to the graveyard.

After you activate viy's ankh you glitch up to the twin labyrinths. You get the lamp of time, get the ring, start the ankh jewel puzzle and activate 2 of the moving platforms and the backside rom. This in the long run actually shortens your trip through the twin labyrinths and it optimizes the confusion gate route as you can warp there now rather than setting up the shortcut.

Fight amphis when you go to grab the la mulana mantra because this happens to be the most optimal time to go back and fight him.

Now with that I have a question. Would it be faster to go through the tower first and get only the bombs and the woman statue, activate the sages and then go through the endless corridor making it one trip getting the keyblade, deathseal, and twin statues. You can get back to the tower through the graveyard warp. Or would it be faster to go to the endless corridor first getting only the keyblade and twinstatues and coming back for the death seal later but now you can go to the upper confusion gate earlier.

Edit: Ok I did some testing, it appears that the former is about 12 seconds faster. I also did some testing in another spot. It is 3 seconds faster to go through the endless corridor backwards than it is to go through it forwards. Also if we go through it backwards it's a second faster to grab the keyblade before the death seal. Talk about optimizing. The main difference however is this costs 4 extra bombs which could be gotten easily by a couple second out of the way pot which if I remember correctly the current skips over two so there we go. So skipping the endless key seems to be more optimal despite the fact that shu still needs to be killed.

@TheMaxican This is for any%

Ok basically it turns out the timesavers aren't super fantastic but they are still timesavers. Because of certain obstacles that I forgot about these tricks are just slight changes in the run rather than a new route entirely. Here are the changes:

During your first visit to the mausoleum when you activate stars go to the endless corridor, grab the three coin pots there then glitch to the lower part and grab the 100 coin pot. Warp back and buy 3 sets of weights and you should just make it through until the surface 20.

Hold off on fighting amphis for a while

In the confusion gate glitch to skip the anchor, do the lizard puzzle and read the grail. Then come back down and get the 100 coins and go to the graveyard.

After you activate viy's ankh you glitch up to the twin labyrinths. You get the lamp of time, get the ring, start the ankh jewel puzzle and activate 2 of the moving platforms and the backside rom. This in the long run actually shortens your trip through the twin labyrinths and it optimizes the confusion gate route as you can warp there now rather than setting up the shortcut.

Fight amphis when you go to grab the la mulana mantra because this happens to be the most optimal time to go back and fight him.

Now with that I have a question. Would it be faster to go through the tower first and get only the bombs and the woman statue, activate the sages and then go through the endless corridor making it one trip getting the keyblade, deathseal, and twin statues. You can get back to the tower through the graveyard warp. Or would it be faster to go to the endless corridor first getting only the keyblade and twinstatues and coming back for the death seal later but now you can go to the upper confusion gate earlier.

Edit: Ok I did some testing, it appears that the former is about 12 seconds faster. I also did some testing in another spot. It is 3 seconds faster to go through the endless corridor backwards than it is to go through it forwards.  Also if we go through it backwards it's a second faster to grab the keyblade before the death seal. Talk about optimizing. The main difference however is this costs 4 extra bombs which could be gotten easily by a couple second out of the way pot which if I remember correctly the current skips over two so there we go. So skipping the endless key seems to be more optimal despite the fact that shu still needs to be killed.

BlueGlass

2013-06-09 11:36:50 pm

Yep yep yep!

Nice routing work, Anon, though I think it would be better to wait and see what else can be done inside walls before trying to finalize things. Seeing as how the rooms don't always appear to connect in a logical way, there are doubtless at least a few skips still waiting to be discovered.

Just my opinion, but I think this type of wall glitch should go in a separate category.

Anonymous52555

2013-06-10 11:29:34 am

Metroidvanias are God Tier

The thing is if we put this in a separate category we would probably have to include the endless corridor skip as well as being separate.