La-Mulana

2010-05-06 06:37:51 am

#Casual

Good job, J.

it is a shame not many people have responded to this thread. I hope your submission is successful.

You definitely deserve a break from LM.

ExplodingCabbage

2010-05-06 10:17:45 am

At some point I'm going to have to actually play through this game completely so I can appreciate this run.

BlueGlass

Edit history:

BlueGlass: 2010-10-11 12:30:50 pm

BlueGlass: 2010-10-11 11:53:59 am

2010-09-18 12:12:11 pm

Yep yep yep!

I just saw your run, UltraJMan. The simple fact that you managed to plan and perform a single-segment of this game is absolutely amazing, and you managed a fast time as well, considering everything that could/did go wrong due to bad luck.

That said, the perfectionist in me can't help but point out all the little improvements, things you missed, and possible route suggestions.

As a general comment, there were several places where I noticed you falling off ledges where a small hop would have been faster. Plus yur memory for pot contents in the later parts of the game seems a bit off, there were several times where you opened an empty pot or one you didn't need.

First off, why not go for the shurikens straight off? You can hit the dais at the top of the elevator later, on your way down to the Masoleum, and getting shurikens first means you can hit the orb for the elevator then go straight for the grail. Plus, in the room where you have to clear out the enemies, why not wait until you have speed boots, knife, and double jump to make it go faster? That way, you can also make use of the top path, which seals off otherwse. Also, I think you could have damage boosted off the one exploding rat to fall down the ladder for the ankh jewel.

In Temple of the Sun trip one, it probably would've been better to skip killing the laser pharaoh head in the knife room, as it has a good chance of letting you damage boost down the ladder to the switch. Also, in the room before the ankh jewel, I think it's faster to go through the door your first time there, so you can go straight across the bottom when coming back from the right.

Finally, a comment on your opening section a a whole. You'd need one or two weight drops near the beginning, but you could manage your money to have the glyph reader for your second trip into the ruins. That would cut off probably over a minute of extra walking.

In Spring in the Sky, after getting the scalesphere, you could've made a controlled jump down to the ledge below, instead of going to the platform in between. Also, if you hadn't landed on the platform in the room below the ankh jewel, you could have damage boosted off the seahorses to reach the dais faster.

A possible route change, if supplies allow, would be to get the gloves here, tackle Inferno Cavern straight after Extinction Chamber, and use a combination of flares and shuriken on Bahamut. Just the other day, I killed him in two passes when he decided to breathe fire twice in a row at the beginning. You're prety limited on flares in an SS though, so I'm not sure it would work.

Chamber of Extinction trip one, a properly timed jump in the third room would have skipped falling and jumping back up.

In Inferno Cavern, I'm pretty sure there's a faster way to do the block puzzle for the flare gun, but I'll have to time it to be sure.
I checked, and they're practically the same

The pot in the first room of Temple of the Sun has 10 flares you could've used for something.

In Temple of Moonlight, when getting the serpent staff, you can jump from the pharaoh head right to the chest. It's not a hard jump and saves a couple seconds.

Also, a possible route change for this area. Axe, Confusion Gate trip one (leave after getting the hundred coins) ice cape, grail point, serpent staff, life seal (there's another ten flares underwater, but I'm not sure if the time is worth it), feather (Algol can be killed with 9 flares before he moves a second time). Then get the treasure, beat the snake boss (in his room, I think it's faster to climb down the first ladder and just fall to the ankh), return to Confusion Gate, then go to Graveyard of Giants, head straight through to Tower of Ruin and do that area, spear Shu, skipping the mini-doll, and use a combination of spears/knife to take out Viy's tentacles, since you probably won't have enough left. The question here is whether the extra Guidance Gate-Confusion Gate trip you have to take to get the Endless Key is made up for by skipping the mini-doll and the first few rooms of Tower of Ruin, plus having double jump for the Graveyard.

Returning to your run instead of my theorizing, in Confusion Gate, I think it's slightly faster to jump over the first pot in the teleporter section, rather than breaking both of them, and on your way out, going all the way left after the first teleport will take you straight to the far side of the pots.

When you return to Chamber of Extinction, in the hundred coin room, it would be faster to start at the bottom right and work your way up.

After leaving the boss room in Guidance Gate, you could have gone right to reach the elevator room.

On your way back to Temple of Moonlight, you should have jumped off the ledge in the room before the pyramid to avoid falling down the pit, which you could have double jumped out of.

Not positive, but I'm pretty sure it's faster to take the ladder back to the entrance of Confusion Gate after opening the path from Guidance Gate. And when falling down the pool the second time, you could have double jumped from the first platform, rather than climb the ladder. And the dais you activate after Shu just removes the spikes at the top of the pit, completely unnecessary.

Toower of Ruin, you could have double-hit the pillar to take it down in two swings instead of four. In the ankh jewel room, you could have stood on the Y, double jumped to the U, then grabbed the spears.

To get to Viy's ankh, it's faster to go right.

Tower of the Goddess, the mace puzzle can be solved with just six of the gems, check the La Mulana wiki for the solution.

I think there's a faster way to do the sun-moon-star puzzle in the Masoleum, again check the La Mulana wiki. Also, you can hit them with subweapons, like spears, to save falling down and jumping back up.

Not sure if it's actually useful time-wise, but there's a hundred coin pot in Endless Corridor in the room to the right of where you glitch to later. Might be faster than ten separate pots in your path.

When jumping into Twin Labrynths, you can take the bottom path from the boss room. Also, in placing the first two weight, you could have damage boosted off the alligator in the first room, climbed the ladder in the second, and fallen down both trapdooes on your way back. And after killing the enemies in the room where the ankh jewel appears, instead of grail warping, you could have gone up the ladder to the right and through the warp, same thing in reverse for after breaking the pot. After opening up the katana, it's faster to return to the labrynth through Temple of Moonlight. Finally, you should wait to fight Baphomet until after you have bombs. Two rounds of bombs will kill him, and they'll hit whether his wings are open or closed.

When climbing Tower of the Goddess, the flying turtle things do not hurt you when the time lamp is activated, even though they're still moving and shooting. You can pass right through them.

In the room below bombs, when going for the dais, a good double jump can skip climbing the ladder.

You really didn't need the weights at the entrance to Chamber of Birth. And there were a couple places where jumping/double jumping would have been faster than climbing ladders.

Inside the moon pyramid, you could have double jumped up to the ladder. And it would've been slightly faster to get the third sage when you were in Tower of the Goddess heading to Chamber of Birth. Breaking the wall with the keyblade to reach the upper part of Confusion Gate would have gone faster if you'd used the double hit trick. And in the pot room, there was no need to spend so long killing the bats, since the lamp freezes them anyway, plus you could have activated it on the left side of the room and taken out the pots as you went back right using just your whip; I haven't tested, but it might be doable to freeze time and knife them all straight off.

In Chamber of Birth, there was absolutely no need to spend about eight seconds breaking the pot to the left after falling down to the lower part; you have bombs to spare once you reach Mother, so that extra five really didn't do anything. Plus there was another spot in the area where you could have saved time with a double jump. And most importantly, I found out that the giant mud man is vulnerable to the time lamp, so you can just press enter and whip him to death.

In the life jewel room in Chamber of Extinction, you can climb the ladder as soon as the hand moves over it to the right. And after falling from Viy's room, there's a crumble floor to the right that's faster than going around. Plus more flares in the room left of the boss, but they're probably not worth the time.

In Dimensional Corridor, the teleporting horse miniboss can be frozen by the time lamp to remove the luck factor in the fight and make it go faster.

For the sub-boss in Chamber of Extinction, I think it's faster to bomb each one twice then whip, and the golem only needs to move eight steps to be able to make the jump to the ledge (plus the knife can wake it faster). When climbing up from activating Nu Wa, you can grab the ladder while standing halfway off it from the right side and warp to the top once you hit the next screen. And when you missed the seal, it would've been faster to hit it after reading Viy's Mantra, since you're already most of the way there.

Oh, and my suggested route from earlier would have activated the Tower of Ruin grail point after doing the faeries.

Now on to the Mantras. For Twin Labrynth, it's much faster to warp to Temple of Moonlight and use that entrance. It's faster to get to the Chamber of Birth chanting room through the Chamber of Birth, as opposed to climbing Tower of the Goddess I haven't tested, but for Tower of the Goddess, it might be faster to use the regular entrance to the chanting room, rather than climbing the long ladder in the mace room. When going to chant the area 3 Mantra, there's no need to be so careful with your jumps; as long as you don't mess up horribly, you won't fall, and knifing the block on the way to the chanting room would have been faster. When going to read the Graveyard mantra, a good jump will take you right across the gap in the room below bombs, shaving off a couple seconds' travel time.

And finally, True Shrine of the Mother. As mentioned in the commentary, you could have taken the ladder in that one room rather than going around; even though it looks blocked, it's not. And for filling the exp bar, the projections of the sleeping dogs work faster than anything else. A final suggestion for the Mother fight phase 3, you can use the double-hit trick to make it go twice as fast.

Well, I hope you get some use out of this post, since I just spent over three and a half hours typing it.

EDIT: updated on October 11 after some testing

I just saw your run, UltraJMan.  The simple fact that you managed to plan and perform a single-segment of this game is absolutely amazing, and you managed a fast time as well, considering everything that could/did go wrong due to bad luck.

That said, the perfectionist in me can't help but point out all the little improvements, things you missed, and possible route suggestions.

As a general comment, there were several places where I noticed you falling off ledges where a small hop would have been faster.  Plus yur memory for pot contents in the later parts of the game seems a bit off, there were several times where you opened an empty pot or one you didn't need.

First off, why not go for the shurikens straight off?  You can hit the dais at the top of the elevator later, on your way down to the Masoleum, and getting shurikens first means you can hit the orb for the elevator then go straight for the grail.  Plus, in the room where you have to clear out the enemies, why not wait until you have speed boots, knife, and double jump to make it go faster?  That way, you can also make use of the top path, which seals off otherwse.  Also, I think you could have damage boosted off the one exploding rat to fall down the ladder for the ankh jewel.

In Temple of the Sun trip one, it probably would've been better to skip killing the laser pharaoh head in the knife room, as it has a good chance of letting you damage boost down the ladder to the switch.  Also, in the room before the ankh jewel, I think it's faster to go through the door your first time there, so you can go straight across the bottom when coming back from the right.

Finally, a comment on your opening section a a whole.  You'd need one or two weight drops near the beginning, but you could manage your money to have the glyph reader for your second trip into the ruins.  That would cut off probably over a minute of extra walking.

In Spring in the Sky, after getting the scalesphere, you could've made a controlled jump down to the ledge below, instead of going to the platform in between.  Also, if you hadn't landed on the platform in the room below the ankh jewel, you could have damage boosted off the seahorses to reach the dais faster.

A possible route change, if supplies allow, would be to get the gloves here, tackle Inferno Cavern straight after Extinction Chamber, and use a combination of flares and shuriken on Bahamut.  Just the other day, I killed him in two passes when he decided to breathe fire twice in a row at the beginning.  You're prety limited on flares in an SS though, so I'm not sure it would work.

Chamber of Extinction trip one, a properly timed jump in the third room would have skipped falling and jumping back up.

In Inferno Cavern, I'm pretty sure there's a faster way to do the block puzzle for the flare gun, but I'll have to time it to be sure.
I checked, and they're practically the same

The pot in the first room of Temple of the Sun has 10 flares you could've used for something.

In Temple of Moonlight, when getting the serpent staff, you can jump from the pharaoh head right to the chest.  It's not a hard jump and saves a couple seconds.

Also, a possible route change for this area.  Axe, Confusion Gate trip one (leave after getting the hundred coins) ice cape, grail point, serpent staff, life seal (there's another ten flares underwater, but I'm not sure if the time is worth it), feather (Algol can be killed with 9 flares before he moves a second time).  Then get the treasure, beat the snake boss (in his room, I think it's faster to climb down the first ladder and just fall to the ankh), return to Confusion Gate, [i]then[/i] go to Graveyard of Giants, head straight through to Tower of Ruin and do that area, spear Shu, skipping the mini-doll, and use a combination of spears/knife to take out Viy's tentacles, since you probably won't have enough left.  The question here is whether the extra Guidance Gate-Confusion Gate trip you have to take to get the Endless Key is made up for by skipping the mini-doll and the first few rooms of Tower of Ruin, plus having double jump for the Graveyard.

Returning to your run instead of my theorizing, in Confusion Gate, I think it's slightly faster to jump over the first pot in the teleporter section, rather than breaking both of them, and on your way out, going all the way left after the first teleport will take you straight to the far side of the pots.

When you return to Chamber of Extinction, in the hundred coin room, it would be faster to start at the bottom right and work your way up.

After leaving the boss room in Guidance Gate, you could have gone right to reach the elevator room.

On your way back to Temple of Moonlight, you should have jumped off the ledge in the room before the pyramid to avoid falling down the pit, which you could have double jumped out of.

Not positive, but I'm pretty sure it's faster to take the ladder back to the entrance of Confusion Gate after opening the path from Guidance Gate.  And when falling down the pool the second time, you could have double jumped from the first platform, rather than climb the ladder.  And the dais you activate after Shu just removes the spikes at the top of the pit, completely unnecessary.

Toower of Ruin, you could have double-hit the pillar to take it down in two swings instead of four.  In the ankh jewel room, you could have stood on the Y, double jumped to the U, then grabbed the spears.

To get to Viy's ankh, it's faster to go right.

Tower of the Goddess, the mace puzzle can be solved with just six of the gems, check the La Mulana wiki for the solution.

I think there's a faster way to do the sun-moon-star puzzle in the Masoleum, again check the La Mulana wiki.  Also, you can hit them with subweapons, like spears, to save falling down and jumping back up.

Not sure if it's actually useful time-wise, but there's a hundred coin pot in Endless Corridor in the room to the right of where you glitch to later.  Might be faster than ten separate pots in your path.

When jumping into Twin Labrynths, you can take the bottom path from the boss room.  Also, in placing the first two weight, you could have damage boosted off the alligator in the first room, climbed the ladder in the second, and fallen down both trapdooes on your way back.  And after killing the enemies in the room where the ankh jewel appears, instead of grail warping, you could have gone up the ladder to the right and through the warp, same thing in reverse for after breaking the pot.  After opening up the katana, it's faster to return to the labrynth through Temple of Moonlight.  Finally, you should wait to fight Baphomet until after you have bombs.  Two rounds of bombs will kill him, and they'll hit whether his wings are open or closed.

When climbing Tower of the Goddess, the flying turtle things do not hurt you when the time lamp is activated, even though they're still moving and shooting.  You can pass right through them.

In the room below bombs, when going for the dais, a good double jump can skip climbing the ladder.

You really didn't need the weights at the entrance to Chamber of Birth.  And there were a couple places where jumping/double jumping would have been faster than climbing ladders.

Inside the moon pyramid, you could have double jumped up to the ladder.  And it would've been slightly faster to get the third sage when you were in Tower of the Goddess heading to Chamber of Birth.  Breaking the wall with the keyblade to reach the upper part of Confusion Gate would have gone faster if you'd used the double hit trick.  And in the pot room, there was no need to spend so long killing the bats, since the lamp freezes them anyway, plus you could have activated it on the left side of the room and taken out the pots as you went back right using just your whip; I haven't tested, but it might be doable to freeze time and knife them all straight off.

In Chamber of Birth, there was absolutely no need to spend about eight seconds breaking the pot to the left after falling down to the lower part; you have bombs to spare once you reach Mother, so that extra five really didn't do anything.  Plus there was another spot in the area where you could have saved time with a double jump.  And most importantly, I found out that the giant mud man is vulnerable to the time lamp, so you can just press enter and whip him to death.

In the life jewel room in Chamber of Extinction, you can climb the ladder as soon as the hand moves over it to the right.  And after falling from Viy's room, there's a crumble floor to the right that's faster than going around.  Plus more flares in the room left of the boss, but they're probably not worth the time.

In Dimensional Corridor, the teleporting horse miniboss can be frozen by the time lamp to remove the luck factor in the fight and make it go faster.

For the sub-boss in Chamber of Extinction, I think it's faster to bomb each one twice then whip, and the golem only needs to move eight steps to be able to make the jump to the ledge (plus the knife can wake it faster).  When climbing up from activating Nu Wa, you can grab the ladder while standing halfway off it from the right side and warp to the top once you hit the next screen.  And when you missed the seal, it would've been faster to hit it after reading Viy's Mantra, since you're already most of the way there.

Oh, and my suggested route from earlier would have activated the Tower of Ruin grail point after doing the faeries.

Now on to the Mantras.  For Twin Labrynth, it's much faster to warp to Temple of Moonlight and use that entrance.  It's faster to get to the Chamber of Birth chanting room through the Chamber of Birth, as opposed to climbing Tower of the Goddess  I haven't tested, but for Tower of the Goddess, it might be faster to use the regular entrance to the chanting room, rather than climbing the long ladder in the mace room.  When going to chant the area 3 Mantra, there's no need to be so careful with your jumps; as long as you don't mess up horribly, you won't fall, and knifing the block on the way to the chanting room would have been faster.  When going to read the Graveyard mantra, a good jump will take you right across the gap in the room below bombs, shaving off a couple seconds' travel time.

And finally, True Shrine of the Mother.  As mentioned in the commentary, you could have taken the ladder in that one room rather than going around; even though it looks blocked, it's not.  And for filling the exp bar, the projections of the sleeping dogs work faster than anything else.  A final suggestion for the Mother fight phase 3, you can use the double-hit trick to make it go twice as fast.

Well, I hope you get some use out of this post, since I just spent over three and a half hours typing it.

EDIT: updated on October 11 after some testing

getter77

2010-09-18 06:22:27 pm

100% runs=great to watch

It was a good run to watch and I enjoyed the commentary. It'll be neat to see what all is cooked up for the Wii remake.

TheMaxican

2011-04-01 12:15:07 am

Break through the final confusion

UltraJMan: before I go off on my usual way-too-long posting, I just wanted to say, fantastic job. Unfortunately I only discovered this game quite recently, otherwise I would have loved to help with the route planning, haha. Oh well. Overall, a great run and very fun to watch, especially with the commentary.

So yeah, like I said, I just recently discovered this game, and I ended up absolutely loving it. It's got a charm to it that not a lot of games have got these days, not to mention the difficulty! I'm definitely curious as to how the WiiWare port will turn out...

The only thing I didn't like about the run (which, of course, isn't UltraJMan's fault at all) is that an SS or RTA doesn't really show just how blazingly fast some of those bosses can be beaten. In fact, a segmented route could use heavy luck manipulation (which is needed against those damn BATS) and produce a hell of an entertaining run!
Anyway, I love this game so much that I've been playing with the idea of doing just that: a segmented run of La Mulana. I'm also figuring since I'd be segmenting, I'd also like to entertain the idea of a 100% run. This opens up a lot of possibilities - with those extra MSX combos, you can make very quick work of the bosses, as well as having little time savers here and there from just doing more damage overall.

Now, of course, this run wouldn't be done anytime soon, since I still have the Crystalis run that I haven't finished in forever (that's a WHOLE other story...), but I'm thinking that, given the nature of my skill at the two games, I might actually end up finishing this run much faster than the Crystalis run (for many reasons I won't go into, but the two biggest ones being FRAPS vs. DVDR recording, and me finding out I'm much better at La Mulana than Crystalis, haha...). So I'm thinking that if enough people show interest, perhaps I'll halt (not abandon!) Crystalis for now and try this run out.

Anyway, it looks like this thread has died for the time being, so I'd like to revive it and, even if I DON'T end up running this game, at least try to get a 100% definition going. Here's my take: Based on what I know about SDA 100% rules, it should be pretty obvious that this includes anything that shows up on the MSX and Item Windows - All MSX Cartridges, all Weapons (except the Chain Whip, since it gets replaced by the Mace), all Sub-Weapons (except Buckler, Fake Silver Shield, and Silver Shield, which are replaced by the Angel Shield - in fact, Fake Silver Shield doesn't even show up anyway), all Items/Equipment, and all Life Jewels. Notably not included are Maps and Hell Temple, although we should discuss the latter. Basically, there's only one item you get from Hell Temple at the very end, and that item doesn't even end up showing up anywhere afterward s- this makes it equal to the Fake Silver Shield, as well as making it even less "important" than the Maps, since at least the Maps show up if you have the Ruins ROM cartridges equipped! So this seems to show that Hell Temple shouldn't be required.

Note that if the worry there is "but I wanted to see a Hell Temple run!", don't worry, I can always run that separately. Smiley

I'm pretty confident that I could (eventually) squeeze out an impressive run, but I can definitely assure you that it won't be single segment though, haha...

Anyway, other than that, I suppose I'm also looking for input on route ideas before I actually sit down and try to carve out the route. From my initial not-really-attempts, the good news is that a majority of the MSX cartridges don't require much of a deviation from an SS route. The bad part is the insane boatloads of money required. At this point I'm not sure how I should balance the segments where I'd literally do nothing but collect money (+ ammo, since it's needed for many boss strats), vs. just getting money as part of natural play. I suppose an RTA would also have to go through this, albeit with much less money to collect. So yeah... something to play with there.

So... thoughts? The only thing I warn against is that, given my experience with Crystalis, this definitely is not a run that would be done anytime soon, haha...

UltraJMan: before I go off on my usual way-too-long posting, I just wanted to say, fantastic job. Unfortunately I only discovered this game quite recently, otherwise I would have loved to help with the route planning, haha. Oh well. Overall, a great run and very fun to watch, especially with the commentary.

So yeah, like I said, I just recently discovered this game, and I ended up absolutely loving it. It's got a charm to it that not a lot of games have got these days, not to mention the difficulty! I'm definitely curious as to how the WiiWare port will turn out...

The only thing I didn't like about the run (which, of course, isn't UltraJMan's fault at all) is that an SS or RTA doesn't really show just how blazingly fast some of those bosses can be beaten. In fact, a segmented route could use heavy luck manipulation (which is needed against those damn BATS) and produce a hell of an entertaining run!
Anyway, I love this game so much that I've been playing with the idea of doing just that: a segmented run of La Mulana. I'm also figuring since I'd be segmenting, I'd also like to entertain the idea of a 100% run. This opens up a lot of possibilities - with those extra MSX combos, you can make very quick work of the bosses, as well as having little time savers here and there from just doing more damage overall.

Now, of course, this run wouldn't be done anytime soon, since I still have the Crystalis run that I haven't finished in forever (that's a WHOLE other story...), but I'm thinking that, given the nature of my skill at the two games, I might actually end up finishing this run much faster than the Crystalis run (for many reasons I won't go into, but the two biggest ones being FRAPS vs. DVDR recording, and me finding out I'm much better at La Mulana than Crystalis, haha...). So I'm thinking that if enough people show interest, perhaps I'll halt (not abandon!) Crystalis for now and try this run out.

Anyway, it looks like this thread has died for the time being, so I'd like to revive it and, even if I DON'T end up running this game, at least try to get a 100% definition going. Here's my take: Based on what I know about SDA 100% rules, it should be pretty obvious that this includes anything that shows up on the MSX and Item Windows - All MSX Cartridges, all Weapons (except the Chain Whip, since it gets replaced by the Mace), all Sub-Weapons (except Buckler, Fake Silver Shield, and Silver Shield, which are replaced by the Angel Shield - in fact, Fake Silver Shield doesn't even show up anyway), all Items/Equipment, and all Life Jewels. Notably not included are Maps and Hell Temple, although we should discuss the latter. Basically, there's only one item you get from Hell Temple at the very end, and that item doesn't even end up showing up anywhere afterward s- this makes it equal to the Fake Silver Shield, as well as making it even less "important" than the Maps, since at least the Maps show up if you have the Ruins ROM cartridges equipped! So this seems to show that Hell Temple shouldn't be required.

Note that if the worry there is "but I wanted to see a Hell Temple run!", don't worry, I can always run that separately. :) I'm pretty confident that I could (eventually) squeeze out an impressive run, but I can definitely assure you that it won't be single segment though, haha...

Anyway, other than that, I suppose I'm also looking for input on route ideas before I actually sit down and try to carve out the route. From my initial not-really-attempts, the good news is that a majority of the MSX cartridges don't require much of a deviation from an SS route. The bad part is the insane boatloads of money required. At this point I'm not sure how I should balance the segments where I'd literally do nothing but collect money (+ ammo, since it's needed for many boss strats), vs. just getting money as part of natural play. I suppose an RTA would also have to go through this, albeit with much less money to collect. So yeah... something to play with there.

So... thoughts? The only thing I warn against is that, given my experience with Crystalis, this definitely is not a run that would be done anytime soon, haha...

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-02 02:28:09 pm

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-02 02:25:03 pm

2011-04-02 08:16:10 am

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Thank you for taking the 100% run before I decided to kill myself and do it. Even though of course now this just gave me another reason to low items run the game.

I would think the skimpy swim suit would be included in a 100% run as well as the silver shield, and buckler and the chain whip and the fake silver shield because they are items and your getting all the items. I've played La Mulana since it came out and sadly I pretty much know where everything is in the game so if you need some help you can ask me. This run is going to require well over 2000 coins so it might be best just to figure out how many coin pots you pass by in a segment and how many are not to far out of the way. This run is going to be extremely interesting because of money and route planning.

TheMaxican

Edit history:

TheMaxican: 2011-04-03 01:34:55 am

2011-04-03 01:34:00 am

Break through the final confusion

Haha, no problem! Good to know I can count on your help! I'm hoping this will be a fun run to make, and I definitely agree that the route planning will make this quite an interesting run!

Yeah, if it was up to me, I would include skimpy swimsuit (Hell Temple) and even the area maps. However, like I said, I was just going by what I know from SDA runs. In fact, I was thinking of Zelda: Link to the Past specifically. If you go to http://speeddemosarchive.com/ZeldaLinkToThePast.html , right after the screenshots it states:

"100% is based on getting all items on the subscreen, all heart pieces, and max level of equipment except the bomb and arrow upgrades. The level 2 shield and blue mail can be skipped since they are replaced by the mirror shield & red mail."

This seems to imply that, at the very least, buckler, silver shield, and chain whip are not required. Similarly, by not including Map or Compass, it seems to imply that area maps, fake silver shield, and (perhaps) skimpy suimsuit are not required. So that's why I wanted to make sure. Smiley

Have there been any changes in SDA rules that would account for these choices? Just wondering.

The more I think about it, the more I think that Hell Temple SHOULD be included in 100%... but I'm curious what the other SDAers have to say!

Haha, no problem! Good to know I can count on your help! I'm hoping this will be a fun run to make, and I definitely agree that the route planning will make this quite an interesting run!

Yeah, if it was up to me, I would include skimpy swimsuit (Hell Temple) and even the area maps. However, like I said, I was just going by what I know from SDA runs. In fact, I was thinking of Zelda: Link to the Past specifically. If you go to http://speeddemosarchive.com/ZeldaLinkToThePast.html , right after the screenshots it states:

"100% is based on getting all items on the subscreen, all heart pieces, and max level of equipment except the bomb and arrow upgrades. The level 2 shield and blue mail can be skipped since they are replaced by the mirror shield & red mail."

This seems to imply that, at the very least, buckler, silver shield, and chain whip are not required. Similarly, by not including Map or Compass, it seems to imply that area maps, fake silver shield, and (perhaps) skimpy suimsuit are not required. So that's why I wanted to make sure. :)

Have there been any changes in SDA rules that would account for these choices? Just wondering.

The more I think about it, the more I think that Hell Temple SHOULD be included in 100%... but I'm curious what the other SDAers have to say!

WingedKitsune

2011-04-03 02:22:32 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Pretty Metroid-eqsue. Hell, I'd watch both any% and 100% runs for this, though.

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-03 04:13:54 pm

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-03 08:23:06 am

2011-04-03 08:02:33 am

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Well the Fake silver shield I can understand not counting as that is more of just 120 coins gone. But Buckler, silver shield, and chain whip I still sorta feel it should be there.

I don't care to much about maps. Even though I kinda want them collected I don't really care if you do or not.

Skimpy Swimsuit is in a huge area of the game that takes a lot of time to get to. And it would make your run look so awesome if it was in it. I honestly don't care too much about the above but Hell temple definitely should be included in the run.

I also talked to Ultrajman about it and he is set on you have to collect every item because they are items and that is how we are defining 100% in this game.

Of course though the main thing I want to see in this run would be Tiamat getting killed with the gun, If you could figure out a route to get 2 sets of bullets that would be cool Since she dies in about 8 hits I believe

Anonymous52555

2011-04-04 06:46:21 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

I may have just found a way to quick kill Tiamat. Basically it requires the Break shot Rom and the Video hustler rom. In the tiamat fight equip those to roms and the knife. The two roms make your knife as strong as the Mace and you can attack twice as fast. Then basically you jump on the endless seal, Hit her with the knife (usually about 7 knife hits in. Which is about 42 damage and Tiamat has 120 hp so repeat this 3 times like I did and Tiamat goes down really fast.

TheMaxican

2011-04-04 10:18:38 pm

Break through the final confusion

Actually, that was exactly what my Tiamat strategy was. Smiley

I'm actually thinking that Break Shot + Video Hustler makes things a LOT faster in general. So yeah, I'm actually trying to see if you can get her in 2 rounds. I think at one point I was able to do 2 rounds + an additional hit with the Mace, so I'm definitely hoping it's possible.

Now that we're talking about this... can you (or anyone) actually explain to me how the Tiamat gun quick kill is supposed to work? Because I can't ever seem to get it, and I can't find videos of it anywhere. I even tried all 12 bullets, right at her face, but it didn't even do enough damage to make one of the glowing orbs come out! Is there some trick to it?

And yeah I'm thinking we should definitely include Hell Temple in the 100% definition. Just cause it feels WRONG not to, haha.

Don't know if I'm convinced about the other items, though... I started reading through the "low% / 100% definitions" thread and ALL of the games I know about seem to not include any item that just ends up getting overriden by a better version...
I'm just doing my best to stick to what SDA has done in the past; I'm mostly worried that I'll finish this and then the verifiers will be like, "wtf, why did he get those extra items, REJECT since it can be faster," but maybe I'm just being paranoid. Smiley

Actually, that was exactly what my Tiamat strategy was. :) I'm actually thinking that Break Shot + Video Hustler makes things a LOT faster in general. So yeah, I'm actually trying to see if you can get her in 2 rounds. I think at one point I was able to do 2 rounds + an additional hit with the Mace, so I'm definitely hoping it's possible.

Now that we're talking about this... can you (or anyone) actually explain to me how the Tiamat gun quick kill is supposed to work? Because I can't ever seem to get it, and I can't find videos of it anywhere. I even tried all 12 bullets, right at her face, but it didn't even do enough damage to make one of the glowing orbs come out! Is there some trick to it?

And yeah I'm thinking we should definitely include Hell Temple in the 100% definition. Just cause it feels WRONG not to, haha.

Don't know if I'm convinced about the other items, though...  I started reading through the "low% / 100% definitions" thread and ALL of the games I know about seem to not include any item that just ends up getting overriden by a better version...
I'm just doing my best to stick to what SDA has done in the past; I'm mostly worried that I'll finish this and then the verifiers will be like, "wtf, why did he get those extra items, REJECT since it can be faster," but maybe I'm just being paranoid. :)

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-04 10:55:49 pm

2011-04-04 10:30:36 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Right now I'm uploading a video of the knife quick kill, its about 1:30 but there is also about 30 seconds of mistakes, I was streaming this game not to long ago so ignore my terrible commentary and singing. It only took two rounds and the video is already faster than the current Tiamat fight at 2:30 so this is more directed at Ultrajman to take about 20 seconds out of your run to go get break shot and video hustler.

Also as for the other items, sure just leave them alone. And as for Tiamat with the gun. Besides that it is completely inconvient due to the knife quick kill with be twice as fast as getting the 400 coins for the bullets. I always just stood on the endless seal shot her about 8 times and she died. So I don't know why its not working for you.

TheMaxican

2011-04-04 11:42:08 pm

Break through the final confusion

Ah, nice, well done. So yeah, there you go, 2 rounds is possible. Smiley

Ah, you have to stand on the endless seal, I see. I always just tried shooting her in the face from the side of the level, since I thought the gun meant a super fast kill. Now that I know, yeah I'm agreeing with you that knife is going to be way faster overall.

Although, since I only actually need 2 bullets (or was it 3?) in the whole run (to get one of the MSX carts), perhaps a hybrid strategy is possible (shoot + knife) to make things a tad faster? Hmm... don't think so, given the time it takes to switch weapons and everything, but I suppose it's something to mess around with.

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-05 12:08:01 am

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-04 11:48:43 pm

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-04 11:47:46 pm

2011-04-04 11:46:41 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

you only need one bullet pack. there is one wall that takes 4 bullets (surface). No other use for bullets in the game. I guess you could shoot 2 shots at tiamat but thats not going to 1 round her.

Edit: wait I read that wrong. Um the wall on the surface I'm pretty sure takes 4 but it might take 3, still not enough to 1 round her considering she has 120 hp and bullets do only 15 damage

Anonymous52555

2011-04-07 08:12:12 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Well I will probably be finishing up Maze of Galious speed run this weekend. And then I was going to work on an IWBTG single segment speed run but I don't really want to do that anymore so instead I feel I will do a harder run and Speed run La Mulana in a Segmented Low% run. This of course means getting game master, but I don't believe this should be counted towards the percent since well it is just let's you save. Also because of Luck with Bahamut, Viy, Palenque, Tiamat, and Beelzebub along with the rest of this games luck that skipping that item is close enough to impossible that its essential.

Also these will be long segments since the grail is skipped, I only am going to come up to the surface when its necessary. So segment 1 is going to be killing Bahamut. I will also of course not be able to do the early grapple claw but I will be getting the flare gun because I found a way to get 2 sets of flares without money since I will need 220 coins before Bahamut And I would rather not go out of my way for 70 more coins. I also will have to kill as many enemies in my path as possible for the well getting though the spring in the sky water swim part.

I will be basing a good majority of my run off Ultrajman's run notes and my own tweaks.

Well I will probably be finishing up Maze of Galious speed run this weekend. And then I was going to work on an IWBTG single segment speed run but I don't really want to do that anymore so instead I feel I will do a harder run and Speed run La Mulana in a Segmented Low% run. This of course means getting game master, but I don't believe this should be counted towards the percent since well it is just let's you save. Also because of Luck with Bahamut, Viy, Palenque, Tiamat, and Beelzebub along with the rest of this games luck that skipping that item is close enough to impossible that its essential.

Also these will be long segments since the grail is skipped, I only am going to come up to the surface when its necessary. So segment 1 is going to be killing Bahamut. I will also of course not be able to do the early grapple claw but I will be getting the flare gun because I found a way to get 2 sets of flares without money since I will need 220 coins before Bahamut And I would rather not go out of my way for 70 more coins. I also will have to kill as many enemies in my path as possible for the well getting though the spring in the sky water swim part.

I will be basing a good majority of my run off Ultrajman's run notes and my own tweaks.

TheMaxican

2011-04-07 10:07:45 pm

Break through the final confusion

Ah, sounds great! I definitely wish you good luck. It'll be good to have both of us (and UltraJMan I'm assuming) running/planning the game at the same time, so that hopefully we can help each other out, haha.

Yeah, Game Master is kinda required to even HAVE segmented at all, so I'm sure it's acceptable to have the segmented run have one more item than a non-segmented one. Not having the Grail will definitely make things harder though!

Definitely let me know if you need any planning help! I'll definitely be posting whatever planning I finalize as I do it.

On my end, I'm mostly getting ready to do the deep planning stages. Hopefully I'll do a big chunk of it this weekend. I'll also probably try to record a Tiamat quick kill as a quality test video, so hopefully I'll post that soon.

Oh, and I'm definitely looking forward to seeing UltraJMan run La Mulana for JRDQ! Good luck, UltraJMan!

TheMaxican

Edit history:

TheMaxican: 2011-04-08 06:29:01 am

TheMaxican: 2011-04-08 05:55:08 am

2011-04-08 05:53:43 am

Break through the final confusion

Haha, I'm up later than I should be, but I was able to fully enjoy your run, UltraJMan! Apparently you didn't think so, but I'll say it anyway: amazing run! Great job!
Sure, there were some ugly spots (Lizard! Level 7 Ankh hiccup! Close call with Palenque!), but overall I was entertained.

It's also good to see that you seem to have integrated small improvements to your route that I was thinking of as I was studying your run. Smiley

Oh, some notes in random order:
- That (accidental) Viy quick kill was amazing! I'll have to investigate it. The fastest way I've seen it done is the one you mentioned in your run (knife him a bunch in the eye while you're invisible), but this may be faster overall!
- Minus the hiccups at the end, great job on Tiamat overall. Yeah... it's hard to get the 2 cycle. As I mentioned I'm planning on doing that as my quality test video. Anyway, my tip for you is, ironically enough, for you not to get so stressed. Smiley

I seriously think a lot of your problems just stem from the fear you've gotten due to bad memories of previous fights. If you had just up and charged Tiamat (with the Athletic Land + Cabbage Patch Kids combo) and smacked her in the face, you would've been drained less life overall and have finished much faster. Smiley

- Actually... make that a generic tip from me - try not to get so stressed! Smiley

You (along with, well, most everyone else) started doing a lot worse whenever stress kicked in. Don't worry so much about perfection when you're doing a great job streaming live for charity! Smiley

- You mentioned the 2012 puzzle. Actually (as a lot of the chat then mentioned), it's told to you right in the manual, near the end. So it's actually one of the EASIEST puzzles in the game. Smiley

- Two shortcuts you missed: (a) once you go from Viy's old room to the Field 6 "cross" room, you can actually go right and fall off the crumbly floor just to the right of the stairs back to 5 on the next room. And (b) you missed the one in the True Shrine of the Mother that was mentioned by BlueGlass earlier in this thread.
- By the way, I heard you mention me! Haha... I wasn't planning on skimping out of Hell Temple, by the way... Smiley

You'll notice I even mentioned I'd run it separately if it wasn't included in the 100% definition. Actually... while we're talking about it, it's funny that everyone seems to think that beating Hell Temple in a speedrun is the hardest thing ever. This is so funny to me because this site is FULL of videos of people doing things that are WAY HARDER. Smiley

- Apparently that makes three of us that suck at getting the Endless Corridor skip... Smiley

- Finally, I have a question: how do you have the keyboard set up when you're playing? I'm trying to see how to minimize the time spent frantically waving my arm to hit the number keys. Smiley

- Right, another question (for either you or Anonymous52555) - how exactly do these "stuck in the wall to sequence break" glitches work? I can't say I've ever heard of them, and can't seem to find much info on them... would I be required to do them or would they count as a separate "major glitches + skips" category? Cuz if that's the case then I suppose I can leave them out.

Haha, I'm up later than I should be, but I was able to fully enjoy your run, UltraJMan! Apparently you didn't think so, but I'll say it anyway: amazing run! Great job!
Sure, there were some ugly spots (Lizard! Level 7 Ankh hiccup! Close call with Palenque!), but overall I was entertained.

It's also good to see that you seem to have integrated small improvements to your route that I was thinking of as I was studying your run. :)

Oh, some notes in random order:
- That (accidental) Viy quick kill was amazing! I'll have to investigate it. The fastest way I've seen it done is the one you mentioned in your run (knife him a bunch in the eye while you're invisible), but this may be faster overall!
- Minus the hiccups at the end, great job on Tiamat overall. Yeah... it's hard to get the 2 cycle. As I mentioned I'm planning on doing that as my quality test video. Anyway, my tip for you is, ironically enough, for you not to get so stressed. :) I seriously think a lot of your problems just stem from the fear you've gotten due to bad memories of previous fights. If you had just up and charged Tiamat (with the Athletic Land + Cabbage Patch Kids combo) and smacked her in the face, you would've been drained less life overall and have finished much faster. :)
- Actually... make that a generic tip from me - try not to get so stressed! :) You (along with, well, most everyone else) started doing a lot worse whenever stress kicked in. Don't worry so much about perfection when you're doing a great job streaming live for charity! :)
- You mentioned the 2012 puzzle. Actually (as a lot of the chat then mentioned), it's told to you right in the manual, near the end. So it's actually one of the EASIEST puzzles in the game. :)
- Two shortcuts you missed: (a) once you go from Viy's old room to the Field 6 "cross" room, you can actually go right and fall off the crumbly floor just to the right of the stairs back to 5 on the next room. And (b) you missed the one in the True Shrine of the Mother that was mentioned by BlueGlass earlier in this thread.
- By the way, I heard you mention me! Haha... I wasn't planning on skimping out of Hell Temple, by the way... :) You'll notice I even mentioned I'd run it separately if it wasn't included in the 100% definition. Actually... while we're talking about it, it's funny that everyone seems to think that beating Hell Temple in a speedrun is the hardest thing ever. This is so funny to me because this site is FULL of videos of people doing things that are WAY HARDER. :)
- Apparently that makes three of us that suck at getting the Endless Corridor skip... :)
- Finally, I have a question: how do you have the keyboard set up when you're playing? I'm trying to see how to minimize the time spent frantically waving my arm to hit the number keys. :)
- Right, another question (for either you or Anonymous52555) - how exactly do these "stuck in the wall to sequence break" glitches work? I can't say I've ever heard of them, and can't seem to find much info on them... would I be required to do them or would they count as a separate "major glitches + skips" category? Cuz if that's the case then I suppose I can leave them out.

BlueGlass

2011-04-08 06:24:32 am

Yep yep yep!

Quote from Anonymous52555:

Also these will be long segments since the grail is skipped, I only am going to come up to the surface when its necessary.

I'm pretty sure you can't beat the game without the grail, because of the katana. Once you climb up the ladder into the area where you press the two buttons to get to the katana, you can't leave without warping.

Also, one route change I'd definitely suggest is to not fight Baphomet until after you have bombs. They let you kill him extremely quickly, as it only takes four and they can hit even when his wings are closed.

If you look up the page, I also have a long post I wrote after Jman's SDA run was released going over many potential improvements from that run. Something I've discovered since then is that the time lamp freezes the giant mudman in Chamber of Birth, removing the randomness of him teleporting all over the place. There are probably other points throughout the run where the time lamp can save time as well.

Anonymous52555

2011-04-08 03:03:37 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Well actually BlueGlass, There is a breakable floor to the left of the button.

As for the Mudman, I will probably be able to do this and so will TheMaxican but Jman can't do this because the lamp of time hasn't reset by that time.

I was planning on doing the bomb trick on Baphomet. Jman doesn't do it for exp purposes And I'm pretty sure TheMaxican was planning it.

Finally, as for the stuck in the wall thing. Well other than the endless corridor thing it requires the Armor. And really the only glitch that could possibly be helpful was the wall glitch next to the doorway between the Confusion Gate and the Tower of Ruin. I don't remember how I got this to work but somehow the snake got me stuck in the wall (basically the glitches work when an enemy hits you into a wall.) Then I climbed to the top and it basically skips the whole tower of the goddess climb and lets you get sub-weapons like bombs way early. If you could figure out how to get this consistantly that would be awesome but I think it was a one time thing and will never happen again.

Well actually BlueGlass, There is a breakable floor to the left of the button.

As for the Mudman, I will probably be able to do this and so will TheMaxican but Jman can't do this because the lamp of time hasn't reset by that time.

I was planning on doing the bomb trick on Baphomet. Jman doesn't do it for exp purposes And I'm pretty sure TheMaxican was planning it.

Finally, as for the stuck in the wall thing. Well other than the endless corridor thing it requires the Armor. And really the only glitch that could possibly be helpful was the wall glitch next to the doorway between the Confusion Gate and the Tower of Ruin. I don't remember how I got this to work but somehow the snake got me stuck in the wall (basically the glitches work when an enemy hits you into a wall.) Then I climbed to the top and it basically skips the whole tower of the goddess climb and lets you get sub-weapons like bombs way early. If you could figure out how to get this consistantly that would be awesome but I think it was a one time thing and will never happen again.

TheMaxican

Edit history:

TheMaxican: 2011-04-09 04:44:30 am

2011-04-09 04:40:56 am

Break through the final confusion

Hmm, ok, thanks Anonymous. Yeah, I guess I won't bother messing with the wall stuff for now. Perhaps it's something we can revisit later.
Oh, and you beat me to the breakable floor comment. Smiley

Yeah, it would've been nice to say, "hey, looks like low% can get the grail after all!" but unfortunately I can't think of a place where it's strictly necessary...
And yes, of course Baphomet will go down to bombs. Smiley

I actually didn't know about the Mudman trick, though; thanks for that, BlueGlass. Now I'm curious where else the Lantern can be useful...

ANYWAY... without further ado, here's a video of me downing Tiamat in about 24 seconds (from when she first appears to when she dies) (and if you're reading this, UltraJMan, hope it cheers you up!):

This is as optimal as I can think of for the time being, but please let me know if you can think of anything else. Oh, and I throw shurikens to delay her hair attack, in case you're wondering. The only real part I'm not sure is the fastest is getting hit by her tail... either you make it come out early and then wait for it and THEN start jumping upwards, or you just do what I did and take the hit... I'm thinking this way's faster.
And even though it probably ate a couple of milliseconds, I really like the ending: bouncing back an orb in the middle of the jump that sets up the kill. Smiley

So yeah, this was also submitted as a quality test on the Tech Support board. So hopefully now I should be well-equipped to record this thing! Now I just need to, you know, actually figure out the route, haha...

Hmm, ok, thanks Anonymous. Yeah, I guess I won't bother messing with the wall stuff for now. Perhaps it's something we can revisit later.
Oh, and you beat me to the breakable floor comment. :) Yeah, it would've been nice to say, "hey, looks like low% can get the grail after all!" but unfortunately I can't think of a place where it's strictly necessary...
And yes, of course Baphomet will go down to bombs. :) I actually didn't know about the Mudman trick, though; thanks for that, BlueGlass. Now I'm curious where else the Lantern can be useful...

ANYWAY... without further ado, here's a video of me downing Tiamat in about 24 seconds (from when she first appears to when she dies) (and if you're reading this, UltraJMan, hope it cheers you up!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XM9V48UTts

This is as optimal as I can think of for the time being, but please let me know if you can think of anything else. Oh, and I throw shurikens to delay her hair attack, in case you're wondering. The only real part I'm not sure is the fastest is getting hit by her tail... either you make it come out early and then wait for it and THEN start jumping upwards, or you just do what I did and take the hit... I'm thinking this way's faster.
And even though it probably ate a couple of milliseconds, I really like the ending: bouncing back an orb in the middle of the jump that sets up the kill. :)

So yeah, this was also submitted as a quality test on the Tech Support board. So hopefully now I should be well-equipped to record this thing! Now I just need to, you know, actually figure out the route, haha...

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-09 11:19:55 am

2011-04-09 11:19:34 am

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Nice Tiamat fight. Maybe a way to improve would be trying to do that clutch dodge Ultrajman did in his run to dodge the tail but other than that it looks really nice. The only part that makes me sad about this trick is I won't be able to do it in my run. However after looking through a minimalist run on youtube. I found a new trick to beat Tiamat fast. Not as fast as this but I should still be able to do it decently fast.

Lamp of time If I remember freezes most sub bosses. I know it won't freeze any of the sub bosses in the Dimensional corridor or Beelzebub. I haven't tried every sub boss so if someone wants to do that, that would be great.

Also I have done a minimalist runthrough of the game so you aren't going to be able to tell me certain items that I'm skipping must be grabbed. Here is a screenshot of my inventory

What I want is for you to tell me items I can skip, if there aren't any, then I will continue planning.

Nice Tiamat fight. Maybe a way to improve would be trying to do that clutch dodge Ultrajman did in his run to dodge the tail but other than that it looks really nice. The only part that makes me sad about this trick is I won't be able to do it in my run. However after looking through a minimalist run on youtube. I found a new trick to beat Tiamat fast. Not as fast as this but I should still be able to do it decently fast.

Lamp of time If I remember freezes most sub bosses. I know it won't freeze any of the sub bosses in the Dimensional corridor or Beelzebub. I haven't tried every sub boss so if someone wants to do that, that would be great.

Also I have done a minimalist runthrough of the game so you aren't going to be able to tell me certain items that I'm skipping must be grabbed. Here is a screenshot of my inventory

[img]http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/14/47/40/04/low_it10.png[/img]

What I want is for you to tell me items I can skip, if there aren't any, then I will continue planning.

TheMaxican

Edit history:

TheMaxican: 2011-04-09 04:24:50 pm

TheMaxican: 2011-04-09 04:24:49 pm

TheMaxican: 2011-04-09 04:21:28 pm

2011-04-09 04:20:55 pm

Break through the final confusion

Remind me what you need the Boots for again (besides making everything NOT ridiculously harder)? I'm sure you do and I just can't think of it...

But yeah, I've gone through it in my head, and everything else is required. Funny that Throwing Knives aren't required, didn't see that one coming.

One thing you might want to play with is the Endless Key. For a while I was hoping you didn't actually need it: this is because of a glitch I found, so that I can get "Yie Ar Kung Fu" in the Endless Corridor. This is one of the most annoying MSX cartridges to get, since it's so out of the way, and it's on the fourth level of the Endless Corridor which you don't need to go through thanks to the wall glitch. However, I found that if you do the wall glitch (and end up at the fifth level), go left two screen, and up the stairs, you'll be stuck on the dragon at the fourth level (obviously, since there's no stairs there since you haven't solved the puzzle). Here, you can throw a Bomb, and it'll end up zipping you straight up through the floor! Now you can go left a screen and get the Yie Ar Kung Fu. However, go left another screen, and what you find is that you can't leave given the placement of the blocks.
If we could somehow find a way to get past this and move our way through the corridor, we might end up being able to skip the Endless Key. But yeah, given what I've seen, I don't think we can get past that room...

Remind me what you need the Boots for again (besides making everything NOT ridiculously harder)? I'm sure you do and I just can't think of it...

But yeah, I've gone through it in my head, and everything else is required. Funny that Throwing Knives aren't required, didn't see that one coming.

One thing you might want to play with is the Endless Key. For a while I was hoping you didn't actually need it: this is because of a glitch I found, so that I can get "Yie Ar Kung Fu" in the Endless Corridor. This is one of the most annoying MSX cartridges to get, since it's so out of the way, and it's on the fourth level of the Endless Corridor which you don't need to go through thanks to the wall glitch. However, I found that if you do the wall glitch (and end up at the fifth level), go left two screen, and up the stairs, you'll be stuck on the dragon at the fourth level (obviously, since there's no stairs there since you haven't solved the puzzle). Here, you can throw a Bomb, and it'll end up zipping you straight up through the floor! Now you can go left a screen and get the Yie Ar Kung Fu. However, go left another screen, and what you find is that you can't leave given the placement of the blocks.
If we could somehow find a way to get past this and move our way through the corridor, we might end up being able to skip the Endless Key. But yeah, given what I've seen, I don't think we can get past that room...

Fragmaster01

2011-04-09 05:04:33 pm

Wiggle wiggle

Quote from TheMaxican:

Remind me what you need the Boots for again (besides making everything NOT ridiculously harder)? I'm sure you do and I just can't think of it...

Running up slopes in the two Temples. If I recall, getting the Axe has one that you need boots for.

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-04-09 05:24:31 pm

2011-04-09 05:22:21 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

Quote from TheMaxican:

Remind me what you need the Boots for again (besides making everything NOT ridiculously harder)? I'm sure you do and I just can't think of it...

But yeah, I've gone through it in my head, and everything else is required. Funny that Throwing Knives aren't required, didn't see that one coming.

One thing you might want to play with is the Endless Key. For a while I was hoping you didn't actually need it: this is because of a glitch I found, so that I can get "Yie Ar Kung Fu" in the Endless Corridor. This is one of the most annoying MSX cartridges to get, since it's so out of the way, and it's on the fourth level of the Endless Corridor which you don't need to go through thanks to the wall glitch. However, I found that if you do the wall glitch (and end up at the fifth level), go left two screen, and up the stairs, you'll be stuck on the dragon at the fourth level (obviously, since there's no stairs there since you haven't solved the puzzle). Here, you can throw a Bomb, and it'll end up zipping you straight up through the floor! Now you can go left a screen and get the Yie Ar Kung Fu. However, go left another screen, and what you find is that you can't leave given the placement of the blocks.
If we could somehow find a way to get past this and move our way through the corridor, we might end up being able to skip the Endless Key. But yeah, given what I've seen, I don't think we can get past that room...

try throwing a bomb at yourself and see what happens. I can take a bomb in a low items run, but I can't take 2 bombs. So unless there is another way I think that is out for me. Low and Fragmaster beat me to it. The Axe has slopes, and i have tried and I cannot find a way to get to the top without the boots. Also Tiamat I would imagine requires them unless you going to fight here in an extremely ridiculous way.

[quote="TheMaxican"]Remind me what you need the Boots for again (besides making everything NOT ridiculously harder)? I'm sure you do and I just can't think of it...

But yeah, I've gone through it in my head, and everything else is required. Funny that Throwing Knives aren't required, didn't see that one coming.

One thing you might want to play with is the Endless Key. For a while I was hoping you didn't actually need it: this is because of a glitch I found, so that I can get "Yie Ar Kung Fu" in the Endless Corridor. This is one of the most annoying MSX cartridges to get, since it's so out of the way, and it's on the fourth level of the Endless Corridor which you don't need to go through thanks to the wall glitch. However, I found that if you do the wall glitch (and end up at the fifth level), go left two screen, and up the stairs, you'll be stuck on the dragon at the fourth level (obviously, since there's no stairs there since you haven't solved the puzzle). Here, you can throw a Bomb, and it'll end up zipping you straight up through the floor! Now you can go left a screen and get the Yie Ar Kung Fu. However, go left another screen, and what you find is that you can't leave given the placement of the blocks.
If we could somehow find a way to get past this and move our way through the corridor, we might end up being able to skip the Endless Key. But yeah, given what I've seen, I don't think we can get past that room...[/quote]
try throwing a bomb at yourself and see what happens. I can take a bomb in a low items run, but I can't take 2 bombs. So unless there is another way I think that is out for me. Low and Fragmaster beat me to it. The Axe has slopes, and i have tried and I cannot find a way to get to the top without the boots. Also Tiamat I would imagine requires them unless you going to fight here in an extremely ridiculous way.

BlueGlass

2011-04-09 09:16:30 pm

Yep yep yep!

Looking at that items screen, and if we count all items to be equal, would it be possible to skip the mini-doll by spearing what's-his-name after getting a life crystal? I would test it myself, but I temporarily don't have access to the game. On a closely related note, no one's said anything either way about my route change idea of doing this in an any%