Kirby's Return to Dreamland Speedrunning

Edit history:

yoshifan: 2012-03-24 05:18:53 pm

yoshifan: 2012-03-24 05:17:44 pm

2012-03-24 05:16:03 pm

Wow, another 5 minute barrier down! From what I've watched of your 1:46 so far, though, it looks like 1:45 might be the last 5 minute barrier for a while... Smiley

I've watched the first 3 worlds, and it's looking really solid so far. It's evident that you have levels memorized quite well. I'm most impressed with the boss fights though, and how you've worked out good dive bomb cancel strats on every boss. Unlike what one of your YT commenters says, it's not really your fingers that are the limitation on dive bombs, but rather it's mentally keeping up with the pace and rhythm of dive bombs (combined with lag from hitting the boss), while staying low enough and close enough to the boss without accidentally landing. That's definitely one part where you're way ahead of me right now!

Also, that's a really great tip for keeping Wing in the ultra ability fights. I'd been having quite some trouble with that myself, but it sounds like that method will really help.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2012-03-24 06:40:27 pm

2012-03-24 06:37:24 pm

<(^_^)>

Thanks! Yeah, dive bomb cancelling is much more about rhythm, and it's much more difficult against shorter grounded bosses (aka Moundo and Metal General).

In my YT run, the bosses definitely drop in quality starting with Grand Doomer, which shows because my boss fights in my current record were the main reason why I saved over a minute.

Speaking of bosses, I'm also not sure if it's faster to get eaten by Whispy Woods or not. Wing can do lots of DPS and damage whispy woods while he's sucking, but getting sucked in means his half-damage-armor frames are done... I think it's very close though, I've tried both.

And yeah, like I mentioned, it's probably the last 5-minute barrier, PERIOD, unless we find some crazy glitch/trick/route change... I'd wager at sub 1:43 being a good barrier to break for a submittable run

Now time to do 100%...

yoshifan

Edit history:

yoshifan: 2012-03-25 12:25:16 pm

2012-03-25 12:21:10 pm

Yeah, I was wondering about the Whispy strat (not getting sucked in) when I watched it. It certainly looked pretty fast though.

Also, I was meaning to do a full 100% run this weekend, so I plan to start that at 3:30 PM U.S. Pacific time today (Sunday). As an advance disclaimer, though, this will not be the run. Tongue

I still have some practice to do. What this hopefully will be, though (if stream choppiness doesn't kick in too much), is a demonstration of some new and alternate strategies since your segmented test run.

kirbymastah

2012-03-25 01:43:47 pm

<(^_^)>

i think it's probably best to do the whispy wing strat without getting sucked in. If getting sucked is faster, it's not gonna be faster by over a second probably (i think it's slower but I haven't actually compared yet), and doing it without being sucked has no randomness, because with the second strat, he can drop gordos on you which will screw up the entire strat (unlikely, but still)

and awww, i don't think i can watch it, at least unless you're playing past 7:30pm in your time

yoshifan

2012-03-25 02:26:15 pm

Yeah, it's not the best time of day, additionally since the Sunday Sequence Break starts at 4 PM Pacific, but I don't really have any other time with 3 straight hours free. Sad

I'll DVD record in case anything good happens though.

yoshifan

2012-03-26 07:26:29 pm

Well, I guess it was the run! At least it's the run for now. Tongue

100% in 2:50:30.

Still quite improvable, but times and strategies are improving for sure.

kirbymastah

2012-03-26 08:49:56 pm

<(^_^)>

WATCH THIS! It's a very solid run, considering how far we are in working on 100% so far. Some big mistakes, and bosses can definitely be much improved, but the rift areas were very good (at least the ones I saw) and 90% of the challenge rooms are just perfect. I'll definitely leave a list of comments on possible route changes and such, and watch through all of this later, but congrats yoshifan for beating my records! Smiley

I mentioned this before, but sub-2:48 is very possible. sub-2:47 is probably going to be VERY hard (but possible) to get; this is probably a good time to shoot for, for now.

kirbymastah

2012-03-27 12:06:42 am

<(^_^)>

I’m not really going to go over nitpicky things since there’re bound to be small optimization mistakes. Bold stuff is basically a noticeable route change I think we should check out.

World 1
2:05 – Any reason you swing the ultra sword backwards here?
6:28 – I’m not sure if it’s faster to do dual fire spin here since you overshoot; I typically do a burning. Probably not a difference of over a half second, if any though.
8:04 – Never tried this, but maybe you can fit a third slide attack in… If that sword knight doesn’t hit you, then yeah we should do a third slide attack
10:29 – There isn’t really a ceiling that blocks you from jumping, so you can do a full-height jump instead of having to float at the end of your jump; this applies to dimensional rift areas too. Try it out and you’ll see what I mean.
Overall – Very solid, and essentially a perfect Whispy Woods fight! Smiley

World 2
16:32 – Very nice boulder-skip, I didn’t realize you can simply drop through the platform and fire spin
17:18 – We need to see if it’s possible to kill Bonkers before he starts spinning, with Fire; I know it is with Wing (though barely) and you were very close
18:40 – We still need to test if it’s faster to carry fire while getting this energy sphere too; I think it would be faster since fire > water
20:30 – “Wait, why are you starting flare beam there, when you can use some of the lag-time to… Oh. Never mind.”
21:40 – Beautiful Sphere Doomer Fight
23:12 – Very close one, but solid!
25:06 – I think the second slide attack to enter 2-4 loses time actually, since you overshoot where you enter the door by quite a distance
26:16 – Beautiful Fire Spins in here
26:30 – X_X keeping fire past here would definitely save tons of time, despite losing fire at the end of 2-4 anyways.
26:40 – I’m sure it’s faster to do water galboros with wave beam -> cycle beam, then beam blast while he jumps up; capture beam should finish water galboros just as he lands. Of course, we should have fire instead, and own it with a well-placed inferno, but this strat IMO is still the fastest opening strat in 5-5 against Water Galboros at least…
28:06 – Hmmm I think it’s faster to float underneath; it barely takes 2 seconds to do so, and each use of ultra sword is a 2ish-second animation
28:18 – THIS is a good spot to use ultra sword IMO, though only in your situation when the blocks were breathing fire
29:00 – So you should totally practice this rift area, running and jumping between cannonballs nonstop, and reset if you ever get hit Tongue

Seriously though, there has to be some consistent way to jump between them…
29:23 – Yeah, getting cutter is better than fire, for that tiny mobility boost
Overall – Besides losing fire, it was very good. Mr. Dooter was solid, though it’s better to fire multiple stars than one big one with a few weak rainbows (ideally the last star would finish him)

World 3
32:50 – UGH I HATE water’s running animation!!!
33:15 – Yeah I don’t think getting parasol helps much in this dive here… At the same time, IMO it’s a bit faster to just slide attack off the edge and fall down. Probably very close too though.
33:53 – Very nice well-placed tornados
34:28 – Any particular reason you used tornado dashes instead of tornado attack, or was this a mistake?
37:05 – The tornado up-down attacks are very weak; I’d rather just start another tornado attack while this sphere doomer charges from the background. Meanwhile, nice tornado into the portal after this fight Smiley

38:46 – Perfect Kibble Blade fight!
39:57 – You don’t need to kill that Poppy Bros to enter the door Smiley

40:30 – You can skip bouncing one enemy with the shoe; more specifically, after bouncing on the Blipper on the yellow block, you can immediately bounce on the next blipper rather than that darn punching guy. On paper, it’s very risky, and it’s a close jump, but I’ve never missed the jump, so…
42:02 – I. HATE. THIS. LEVEL.
42:18 – You can snipe this bomb block by throwing a spear before going up the hill; I’m not sure if it’s faster, but it’s probably not any slower, and it definitely looks sexy
42:38 – Obviously not an option in any%, but would it be a bit faster to just charge through the second ceiling of spikes and lose spear? Spear doesn’t really save any time before you swap for water anyways.
45:16 – On all the platforms where you don’t need to jump from, in this windy section, do a slide attack. You go FLYING.
45:50 – Mmmm I’m still confident in saying that just tanking through the first 2 sets of statues is faster. Definitely not worth tanking in the ascending/descending ones though.
49:05 – Instead of doing like 6-7 drills, you only need 2; just drill all the way to the right underwater at the start, then to the left when you reach the right edge. I think I do this in my test run…
50:14 – You could still keep drilling from here, non-stop; you’ll make it
51:20 – This is one of the awesome things about having no ability here; I’m sure it’s faster to just get hit and tank through all the spike balls just before getting spear

Overall – This world went really well too!!!! I’m not surprised that you’ve stayed about 2 minutes ahead of my test run most of the time at this point! Fatty Puffer was all right; it can definitely use more practice, especially with your parasol spacing in phase 1, but it was still pretty decent.

I’m not really going to go over nitpicky things since there’re bound to be small optimization mistakes. Bold stuff is basically a noticeable route change I think we should check out.

World 1
2:05 – Any reason you swing the ultra sword backwards here?
6:28 – I’m not sure if it’s faster to do dual fire spin here since you overshoot; I typically do a burning. Probably not a difference of over a half second, if any though.
8:04 – Never tried this, but maybe you can fit a third slide attack in… If that sword knight doesn’t hit you, then yeah we should do a third slide attack
10:29 – There isn’t really a ceiling that blocks you from jumping, so you can do a full-height jump instead of having to float at the end of your jump; this applies to dimensional rift areas too. Try it out and you’ll see what I mean.
Overall – Very solid, and essentially a perfect Whispy Woods fight! :)

World 2
16:32 – Very nice boulder-skip, I didn’t realize you can simply drop through the platform and fire spin
17:18 – We need to see if it’s possible to kill Bonkers before he starts spinning, with Fire; I know it is with Wing (though barely) and you were very close
18:40 – We still need to test if it’s faster to carry fire while getting this energy sphere too; I think it would be faster since fire > water
20:30 – “Wait, why are you starting flare beam there, when you can use some of the lag-time to… Oh. Never mind.”
21:40 – Beautiful Sphere Doomer Fight
23:12 – Very close one, but solid!
25:06 – I think the second slide attack to enter 2-4 loses time actually, since you overshoot where you enter the door by quite a distance
26:16 – Beautiful Fire Spins in here
26:30 – X_X keeping fire past here would definitely save tons of time, despite losing fire at the end of 2-4 anyways.
26:40 – I’m sure it’s faster to do water galboros with wave beam -> cycle beam, then beam blast while he jumps up; capture beam should finish water galboros just as he lands. [b]Of course, we should have fire instead, and own it with a well-placed inferno, [/b]but this strat IMO is still the fastest opening strat in 5-5 against Water Galboros at least…
28:06 – Hmmm I think it’s faster to float underneath; it barely takes 2 seconds to do so, and each use of ultra sword is a 2ish-second animation
28:18 – THIS is a good spot to use ultra sword IMO, though only in your situation when the blocks were breathing fire
29:00 – So you should totally practice this rift area, running and jumping between cannonballs nonstop, and reset if you ever get hit :P Seriously though, there has to be some consistent way to jump between them…
29:23 – Yeah, getting cutter is better than fire, for that tiny mobility boost
Overall – Besides losing fire, it was very good. Mr. Dooter was solid, though it’s better to fire multiple stars than one big one with a few weak rainbows (ideally the last star would finish him)

World 3
32:50 – UGH I HATE water’s running animation!!!
33:15 – Yeah I don’t think getting parasol helps much in this dive here… At the same time, IMO it’s a bit faster to just slide attack off the edge and fall down. Probably very close too though.
33:53 – Very nice well-placed tornados
34:28 – Any particular reason you used tornado dashes instead of tornado attack, or was this a mistake?
37:05 – The tornado up-down attacks are very weak; I’d rather just start another tornado attack while this sphere doomer charges from the background. Meanwhile, nice tornado into the portal after this fight :)
38:46 – Perfect Kibble Blade fight!
39:57 – You don’t need to kill that Poppy Bros to enter the door :)
40:30 – You can skip bouncing one enemy with the shoe; more specifically, after bouncing on the Blipper on the yellow block, you can immediately bounce on the next blipper rather than that darn punching guy. On paper, it’s very risky, and it’s a close jump, but I’ve never missed the jump, so…
42:02 – I. HATE. THIS. LEVEL.
42:18 – You can snipe this bomb block by throwing a spear before going up the hill; I’m not sure if it’s faster, but it’s probably not any slower, and it definitely looks sexy
[b]42:38 – Obviously not an option in any%, but would it be a bit faster to just charge through the second ceiling of spikes and lose spear? Spear doesn’t really save any time before you swap for water anyways.[/b]
45:16 – On all the platforms where you don’t need to jump from, in this windy section, do a slide attack. You go FLYING.
45:50 – Mmmm I’m still confident in saying that just tanking through the first 2 sets of statues is faster. Definitely not worth tanking in the ascending/descending ones though.
49:05 – Instead of doing like 6-7 drills, you only need 2; just drill all the way to the right underwater at the start, then to the left when you reach the right edge. I think I do this in my test run…
50:14 – You could still keep drilling from here, non-stop; you’ll make it
[b]51:20 – This is one of the awesome things about having no ability here; I’m sure it’s faster to just get hit and tank through all the spike balls just before getting spear[/b]

Overall – This world went really well too!!!! I’m not surprised that you’ve stayed about 2 minutes ahead of my test run most of the time at this point! Fatty Puffer was all right; it can definitely use more practice, especially with your parasol spacing in phase 1, but it was still pretty decent.

kirbymastah

2012-03-27 10:12:03 am

<(^_^)>

World 4
1:00:26 – Yeah, good idea to take this spot slow (After practicing making it under the gate first try). The spot where you can jump up above without touching the spikes is VERY deceptive, for some reason, and losing fire here loses a TON of time.
1:01:06 – You can start jumping on the snowballs right after Kirby ‘bounces’ in his shoe for the third time.
1:02:00 – I think Beam is faster against Bonkers here. I compared your fire fight with my beam fight; Fire took 16 seconds and Beam took 14 seconds. You missed a few fire breath hits, probably lost about 1.5 seconds, and I missed the initial wave beam and did a beam whip instead of a beam blast, I think that’s also a loss of about 1.5ish seconds. Beam takes an extra second to switch out for Fire. So, very roughly estimating, ideally fire takes 14.5 seconds, and Beam takes 12.5 seconds, plus the extra second to get it. Very, very close, though I think Beam is barely faster (and it looks cooler IMO; yeah, I’m biased towards it :P)
1:03:26 – Creative Tongue

Not sure if it’s faster, but definitely looks better
1:03:36 – Now this is probably faster!
1:08:20 – Mmm water galboros could definitely use practice and experimentation with ice. You always want to do near-full-jump hyper sprinkles, since you’ll get two hits in per jump. I find it easier to get those hits by hugging the right wall, since I can simply hold right without having to worry about aiming (but I take a hit)
1:11:27 – This snow bowl segment was practically perfect!
1:16:48 – You can do a burning right when you come into this room with the energy sphere; it’ll place you in a good position for the second burning through the death tunnel of spikes (I still take a half second to adjust myself though)
Overall – Apparently you’ve been practicing every world about ten times more than me. In other words, also very good. Goriath could use a little optimization, but it’s not more than a second or two; you killed him before he fired his hadoukens, so that’s good enough in SS Tongue

World 5
1:20:40 – Ahh, I’ll be honest, this room was a bit messy before you got Wing =/ traveling on the ground with ninja is definitely faster than the air-dive stuff, though I did the air-dives at the very beginning because then I wouldn’t have to bother jumping to the higher platforms.
1:22:08 – You can go through these spike balls earlier, without having to wait
1:28:02 – Was floating here at the start of 5-3 an accident?
1:28:27 – Probably faster to stop floating and start jumping up platforms here
1:35:24 – Good Sphere Doomer fight with spear; It may be better to wait until you’re at the full height of each jump before throwing spears, so you can throw 3… I dunno
1:36:22 – Herp Derp
1:36:44 – I’m assuming you were gonna fire a fully-charged hadouken, but didn’t have enough time. I don’t spam hadoukens as quickly as possible though, as you noticed that if you do, some of the hadoukens will not hurt Gigant Edge because of invincibility frames. I wait a little bit between each hadouken to make sure that they all hit (like, a quarter of a second each)
1:37:05 – When you’re one slide-attack distance away from the door, you can do a drill stab into upward slash (upward slash combos from drill stab), and you’ll be in position to enter the door. I’m sure it’s a tad faster, and fancier too Smiley

1:37:30 – VERY nice stone dashes
1:38:00 – Yeah, like I said about water galboros in World 2, wave beam -> cycle beam -> beam blast -> beam capture -> cycle beam -> beam blast as he charges below you
1:38:32 – Just when Dubior charges, I take the time to position myself on the left, then dodge the hit with a rainbow, since he takes less damage while charging

Overall – Not quite as good as the previous 4 worlds, but still pretty good considering how far you are in the run (and considering how good the first 4 worlds were, being worse than them doesn't mean much Smiley

). The main thing is that you can definitely use some practice against bosses with Wing. Grand Doomer was still pretty good though, and the ultra sword segment was practically perfect.

World 4
1:00:26 – Yeah, good idea to take this spot slow (After practicing making it under the gate first try). The spot where you can jump up above without touching the spikes is VERY deceptive, for some reason, and losing fire here loses a TON of time.
1:01:06 – You can start jumping on the snowballs right after Kirby ‘bounces’ in his shoe for the third time.
[b]1:02:00 – I think Beam is faster against Bonkers here. I compared your fire fight with my beam fight; Fire took 16 seconds and Beam took 14 seconds. You missed a few fire breath hits, probably lost about 1.5 seconds, and I missed the initial wave beam and did a beam whip instead of a beam blast, I think that’s also a loss of about 1.5ish seconds. Beam takes an extra second to switch out for Fire. So, very roughly estimating, ideally fire takes 14.5 seconds, and Beam takes 12.5 seconds, plus the extra second to get it. Very, very close, though I think Beam is barely faster (and it looks cooler IMO; yeah, I’m biased towards it :P) [/b]
1:03:26 – Creative :P Not sure if it’s faster, but definitely looks better
1:03:36 – Now this is probably faster!
1:08:20 – Mmm water galboros could definitely use practice and experimentation with ice. You always want to do near-full-jump hyper sprinkles, since you’ll get two hits in per jump. I find it easier to get those hits by hugging the right wall, since I can simply hold right without having to worry about aiming (but I take a hit)
1:11:27 – This snow bowl segment was practically perfect!
1:16:48 – You can do a burning right when you come into this room with the energy sphere; it’ll place you in a good position for the second burning through the death tunnel of spikes (I still take a half second to adjust myself though)
Overall – Apparently you’ve been practicing every world about ten times more than me. In other words, also very good. Goriath could use a little optimization, but it’s not more than a second or two; you killed him before he fired his hadoukens, so that’s good enough in SS :P

World 5
1:20:40 – Ahh, I’ll be honest, this room was a bit messy before you got Wing =/ traveling on the ground with ninja is definitely faster than the air-dive stuff, though I did the air-dives at the very beginning because then I wouldn’t have to bother jumping to the higher platforms.
1:22:08 – You can go through these spike balls earlier, without having to wait
1:28:02 – Was floating here at the start of 5-3 an accident?
1:28:27 – Probably faster to stop floating and start jumping up platforms here
1:35:24 – Good Sphere Doomer fight with spear; It may be better to wait until you’re at the full height of each jump before throwing spears, so you can throw 3… I dunno
1:36:22 – Herp Derp
1:36:44 – I’m assuming you were gonna fire a fully-charged hadouken, but didn’t have enough time. I don’t spam hadoukens as quickly as possible though, as you noticed that if you do, some of the hadoukens will not hurt Gigant Edge because of invincibility frames. I wait a little bit between each hadouken to make sure that they all hit (like, a quarter of a second each)
1:37:05 – When you’re one slide-attack distance away from the door, you can do a drill stab into upward slash (upward slash combos from drill stab), and you’ll be in position to enter the door. I’m sure it’s a tad faster, and fancier too :)
1:37:30 – VERY nice stone dashes
1:38:00 – Yeah, like I said about water galboros in World 2, wave beam -> cycle beam -> beam blast -> beam capture -> cycle beam -> beam blast as he charges below you
1:38:32 – Just when Dubior charges, I take the time to position myself on the left, then dodge the hit with a rainbow, since he takes less damage while charging
 
Overall – Not quite as good as the previous 4 worlds, but still pretty good considering how far you are in the run (and considering how good the first 4 worlds were, being worse than them doesn't mean much :) ). The main thing is that you can definitely use some practice against bosses with Wing. Grand Doomer was still pretty good though, and the ultra sword segment was practically perfect.

yoshifan

Edit history:

yoshifan: 2012-03-30 03:37:08 pm

yoshifan: 2012-03-30 03:33:11 pm

2012-03-30 01:29:11 pm

World 1

2:05 – Any reason you swing the ultra sword backwards here?
Not really. Tongue

The idea is better for levels like 3-3, where (I think) hitting the target more quickly means you don't have to wait as long for the rift to open. There's no waiting in 1-1 though.

6:28 – I’m not sure if it’s faster to do dual fire spin here since you overshoot; I typically do a burning. Probably not a difference of over a half second, if any though.
Yeah, I agree that a Burn would be faster here. Slipped my mind.

8:04 – Never tried this, but maybe you can fit a third slide attack in… If that sword knight doesn’t hit you, then yeah we should do a third slide attack
Maybe, yeah; I forgot if you could or not. Relatedly, I only realized recently that you could fit 5 slides before the sword knight in 1-1, although you have to make sure you don't start your first slide too much to the right.

10:29 – There isn’t really a ceiling that blocks you from jumping, so you can do a full-height jump instead of having to float at the end of your jump; this applies to dimensional rift areas too. Try it out and you’ll see what I mean.
Oh huh, I see. Didn't realize that.

World 2

16:32 – Very nice boulder-skip, I didn’t realize you can simply drop through the platform and fire spin
Thanks! Yeah, I used to try and fall off of the right side of the platform for the fireball roll, but I would often roll up the wall instead. This method lets me stay away from the wall.

17:18 – We need to see if it’s possible to kill Bonkers before he starts spinning, with Fire; I know it is with Wing (though barely) and you were very close
Yeah, I'm wondering about this too. I doubt it's happening with my strategy though. (By the way, I don't think I've ever beaten Bonkers before the spinning, so that was great to see in your any% run.)

18:40 – We still need to test if it’s faster to carry fire while getting this energy sphere too; I think it would be faster since fire > water
Oh! Nice idea, I didn't even think of that.

21:40 – Beautiful Sphere Doomer Fight
Thanks! I usually get one more hit before he swoops (you'll notice that air pellet mistake), and it works out since I try to do the last Parasol Swing just as he starts his swoop (because he can go into the fire headbutt phase even after getting in position for the swoop). But the 5 hits from the Parasol Twirl made up for that.

23:12 – Very close one, but solid!
I think it would've been less close if I wasn't initially trying to dash out of that super inhale - tapping the control pad caused Kirby to continue inhaling for a bit. >_> But yeah, at least I made it.

25:06 – I think the second slide attack to enter 2-4 loses time actually, since you overshoot where you enter the door by quite a distance
Yeah, think you're right about that.

26:40 – I’m sure it’s faster to do water galboros with wave beam -> cycle beam, then beam blast while he jumps up; capture beam should finish water galboros just as he lands. Of course, we should have fire instead, and own it with a well-placed inferno, but this strat IMO is still the fastest opening strat in 5-5 against Water Galboros at least…
Yeah, good call on using Beam Blast. Fire is the way to go here for sure, though; I know you can get 4 Inferno hits on him before he hits you (without making you drop your power), and then a few spinning fire breath hits finishes the job.

28:06 – Hmmm I think it’s faster to float underneath; it barely takes 2 seconds to do so, and each use of ultra sword is a 2ish-second animation
Upon re-re-consideration, you're probably right here. >_>

28:18 – THIS is a good spot to use ultra sword IMO, though only in your situation when the blocks were breathing fire
Yup, I only do it here when the blocks are about to breathe fire.

Overall – Besides losing fire, it was very good. Mr. Dooter was solid, though it’s better to fire multiple stars than one big one with a few weak rainbows (ideally the last star would finish him)
I haven't practiced the star strategy much really. In fact, I was going for rainbows until I happened to mis-time one rainbow, heh. This could be worth a bit of practice.

World 3

32:50 – UGH I HATE water’s running animation!!!
Yeah, that was pretty bad - I was trying to Wave Surf just before the Glunk. Getting that second try is not a good thing, apparently.

33:15 – Yeah I don’t think getting parasol helps much in this dive here… At the same time, IMO it’s a bit faster to just slide attack off the edge and fall down. Probably very close too though.
Sliding off is probably a bit easier at least.

34:28 – Any particular reason you used tornado dashes instead of tornado attack, or was this a mistake?
That was intentional (well, the dashes were intentional, the downward tornado wasn't). I found that it helped with spacing to get to the end of the room, so I don't do an unnecessarily long tornado at the end of the room (water canceling doesn't work too well with that coconut right at the end). But hmm... I forgot about the method you used in your 100% test run, involving canceling the first tornado with that Waddle Dee. That looks pretty fast.

37:05 – The tornado up-down attacks are very weak; I’d rather just start another tornado attack while this sphere doomer charges from the background. Meanwhile, nice tornado into the portal after this fight
That's probably a good idea; then we could hit the Sphere Doomer with the end of that tornado attack when he comes back to the foreground. Also thanks!

39:57 – You don’t need to kill that Poppy Bros to enter the door
Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. >_>

40:30 – You can skip bouncing one enemy with the shoe; more specifically, after bouncing on the Blipper on the yellow block, you can immediately bounce on the next blipper rather than that darn punching guy. On paper, it’s very risky, and it’s a close jump, but I’ve never missed the jump, so…
Ah yeah, forgot about that one. Another thing I used to do is do one more low bounce (instead of a jump) onto the second to last Blipper, though I DID fail that sometimes.

42:18 – You can snipe this bomb block by throwing a spear before going up the hill; I’m not sure if it’s faster, but it’s probably not any slower, and it definitely looks sexy
Heh, nice. I'll have to try that at least.

42:38 – Obviously not an option in any%, but would it be a bit faster to just charge through the second ceiling of spikes and lose spear? Spear doesn’t really save any time before you swap for water anyways.
Spear does save a bit of time in the next room, because the Glunk and Blipper can be attacked without slowing down. I think the Spear downstabs at the end of that room delay just as much as the downward water gun, though. Overall, it'd probably be a close call.

45:16 – On all the platforms where you don’t need to jump from, in this windy section, do a slide attack. You go FLYING.
Oh nice, never thought to try that.

45:50 – Mmmm I’m still confident in saying that just tanking through the first 2 sets of statues is faster. Definitely not worth tanking in the ascending/descending ones though.
Yeah, think you're right about this. And yeah, I remember having to get hit twice to get through the statues at the upward steps, which doesn't seem very worth it. I wonder how fluttering over vs. shooting a Monster Flame would compare there, though.

49:05 – Instead of doing like 6-7 drills, you only need 2; just drill all the way to the right underwater at the start, then to the left when you reach the right edge. I think I do this in my test run…
Ah, must have forgotten about that.

50:14 – You could still keep drilling from here, non-stop; you’ll make it
Huh, okay. I remember ending up too much to the right sometimes when I tried that, but yeah, it looks like I was in an okay position to cut the corners well.

51:20 – This is one of the awesome things about having no ability here; I’m sure it’s faster to just get hit and tank through all the spike balls just before getting spear
Hmm, it might not be faster if you have to tank/take a backwards boost through each wheel, but let's see... it does look like if you tank through the first spike wheel, it might actually be possible to squeeze by the second spike wheel while it's at its highest point. I wonder how the timing would work out when you have to swim up from Spear though... well yeah, no matter how it works out, it seems that you wouldn't have to wait for that wheel for more than a second. That's worth a shot.

Overall – This world went really well too!!!! I’m not surprised that you’ve stayed about 2 minutes ahead of my test run most of the time at this point! Fatty Puffer was all right; it can definitely use more practice, especially with your parasol spacing in phase 1, but it was still pretty decent.
I am surprised, to be honest. Tongue

But I guess better strats are certainly helping out. As for Fatty Puffer, the first phase usually goes better; not getting the first phase before he rolls was pretty unusual. It was definitely the first two Parasol Twirls that were the main mistake there. Second phase went well though, but it could be a bit faster if I had started a Parasol Twirl at the very right side of the screen to hit him right after he ran into the wall. I didn't think of that at the time.

[i]World 1[/i]

[i]2:05 – Any reason you swing the ultra sword backwards here?[/i]
Not really. :P  The idea is better for levels like 3-3, where (I think) hitting the target more quickly means you don't have to wait as long for the rift to open.  There's no waiting in 1-1 though.

[i]6:28 – I’m not sure if it’s faster to do dual fire spin here since you overshoot; I typically do a burning. Probably not a difference of over a half second, if any though.[/i]
Yeah, I agree that a Burn would be faster here.  Slipped my mind.

[i]8:04 – Never tried this, but maybe you can fit a third slide attack in… If that sword knight doesn’t hit you, then yeah we should do a third slide attack[/i]
Maybe, yeah; I forgot if you could or not.  Relatedly, I only realized recently that you could fit 5 slides before the sword knight in 1-1, although you have to make sure you don't start your first slide too much to the right.

[i]10:29 – There isn’t really a ceiling that blocks you from jumping, so you can do a full-height jump instead of having to float at the end of your jump; this applies to dimensional rift areas too. Try it out and you’ll see what I mean.[/i]
Oh huh, I see.  Didn't realize that.

[i]World 2[/i]

[i]16:32 – Very nice boulder-skip, I didn’t realize you can simply drop through the platform and fire spin[/i]
Thanks!  Yeah, I used to try and fall off of the right side of the platform for the fireball roll, but I would often roll up the wall instead.  This method lets me stay away from the wall.

[i]17:18 – We need to see if it’s possible to kill Bonkers before he starts spinning, with Fire; I know it is with Wing (though barely) and you were very close[/i]
Yeah, I'm wondering about this too.  I doubt it's happening with my strategy though.  (By the way, I don't think I've ever beaten Bonkers before the spinning, so that was great to see in your any% run.)

[i]18:40 – We still need to test if it’s faster to carry fire while getting this energy sphere too; I think it would be faster since fire > water[/i]
Oh!  Nice idea, I didn't even think of that.

[i]21:40 – Beautiful Sphere Doomer Fight[/i]
Thanks!  I usually get one more hit before he swoops (you'll notice that air pellet mistake), and it works out since I try to do the last Parasol Swing just as he starts his swoop (because he can go into the fire headbutt phase even after getting in position for the swoop).  But the 5 hits from the Parasol Twirl made up for that.

[i]23:12 – Very close one, but solid![/i]
I think it would've been less close if I wasn't initially trying to dash out of that super inhale - tapping the control pad caused Kirby to continue inhaling for a bit. >_>  But yeah, at least I made it.

[i]25:06 – I think the second slide attack to enter 2-4 loses time actually, since you overshoot where you enter the door by quite a distance[/i]
Yeah, think you're right about that.

[i]26:40 – I’m sure it’s faster to do water galboros with wave beam -> cycle beam, then beam blast while he jumps up; capture beam should finish water galboros just as he lands. [b]Of course, we should have fire instead, and own it with a well-placed inferno, [/b]but this strat IMO is still the fastest opening strat in 5-5 against Water Galboros at least…[/i]
Yeah, good call on using Beam Blast.  Fire is the way to go here for sure, though; I know you can get 4 Inferno hits on him before he hits you (without making you drop your power), and then a few spinning fire breath hits finishes the job.

[i]28:06 – Hmmm I think it’s faster to float underneath; it barely takes 2 seconds to do so, and each use of ultra sword is a 2ish-second animation[/i]
Upon re-re-consideration, you're probably right here. >_>

[i]28:18 – THIS is a good spot to use ultra sword IMO, though only in your situation when the blocks were breathing fire[/i]
Yup, I only do it here when the blocks are about to breathe fire.

[i]Overall – Besides losing fire, it was very good. Mr. Dooter was solid, though it’s better to fire multiple stars than one big one with a few weak rainbows (ideally the last star would finish him)[/i]
I haven't practiced the star strategy much really.  In fact, I was going for rainbows until I happened to mis-time one rainbow, heh.  This could be worth a bit of practice.

[i]World 3[/i]

[i]32:50 – UGH I HATE water’s running animation!!![/i]
Yeah, that was pretty bad - I was trying to Wave Surf just before the Glunk.  Getting that second try is not a good thing, apparently.

[i]33:15 – Yeah I don’t think getting parasol helps much in this dive here… At the same time, IMO it’s a bit faster to just slide attack off the edge and fall down. Probably very close too though.[/i]
Sliding off is probably a bit easier at least.

[i]34:28 – Any particular reason you used tornado dashes instead of tornado attack, or was this a mistake?[/i]
That was intentional (well, the dashes were intentional, the downward tornado wasn't).  I found that it helped with spacing to get to the end of the room, so I don't do an unnecessarily long tornado at the end of the room (water canceling doesn't work too well with that coconut right at the end).  But hmm... I forgot about the method you used in your 100% test run, involving canceling the first tornado with that Waddle Dee.  That looks pretty fast.

[i]37:05 – The tornado up-down attacks are very weak; I’d rather just start another tornado attack while this sphere doomer charges from the background. Meanwhile, nice tornado into the portal after this fight :)[/i]
That's probably a good idea; then we could hit the Sphere Doomer with the end of that tornado attack when he comes back to the foreground.  Also thanks!

[i]39:57 – You don’t need to kill that Poppy Bros to enter the door :)[/i]
Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. >_>

[i]40:30 – You can skip bouncing one enemy with the shoe; more specifically, after bouncing on the Blipper on the yellow block, you can immediately bounce on the next blipper rather than that darn punching guy. On paper, it’s very risky, and it’s a close jump, but I’ve never missed the jump, so…[/i]
Ah yeah, forgot about that one.  Another thing I used to do is do one more low bounce (instead of a jump) onto the second to last Blipper, though I DID fail that sometimes.

[i]42:18 – You can snipe this bomb block by throwing a spear before going up the hill; I’m not sure if it’s faster, but it’s probably not any slower, and it definitely looks sexy[/i]
Heh, nice.  I'll have to try that at least.

[i][b]42:38 – Obviously not an option in any%, but would it be a bit faster to just charge through the second ceiling of spikes and lose spear? Spear doesn’t really save any time before you swap for water anyways.[/b][/i]
Spear does save a bit of time in the next room, because the Glunk and Blipper can be attacked without slowing down.  I think the Spear downstabs at the end of that room delay just as much as the downward water gun, though.  Overall, it'd probably be a close call.

[i]45:16 – On all the platforms where you don’t need to jump from, in this windy section, do a slide attack. You go FLYING.[/i]
Oh nice, never thought to try that.

[i]45:50 – Mmmm I’m still confident in saying that just tanking through the first 2 sets of statues is faster. Definitely not worth tanking in the ascending/descending ones though.[/i]
Yeah, think you're right about this.  And yeah, I remember having to get hit twice to get through the statues at the upward steps, which doesn't seem very worth it.  I wonder how fluttering over vs. shooting a Monster Flame would compare there, though.

[i]49:05 – Instead of doing like 6-7 drills, you only need 2; just drill all the way to the right underwater at the start, then to the left when you reach the right edge. I think I do this in my test run…[/i]
Ah, must have forgotten about that.

[i]50:14 – You could still keep drilling from here, non-stop; you’ll make it[/i]
Huh, okay.  I remember ending up too much to the right sometimes when I tried that, but yeah, it looks like I was in an okay position to cut the corners well.

[i][b]51:20 – This is one of the awesome things about having no ability here; I’m sure it’s faster to just get hit and tank through all the spike balls just before getting spear[/b][/i]
Hmm, it might not be faster if you have to tank/take a backwards boost through each wheel, but let's see... it does look like if you tank through the first spike wheel, it might actually be possible to squeeze by the second spike wheel while it's at its highest point.  I wonder how the timing would work out when you have to swim up from Spear though... well yeah, no matter how it works out, it seems that you wouldn't have to wait for that wheel for more than a second.  That's worth a shot.

[i]Overall – This world went really well too!!!! I’m not surprised that you’ve stayed about 2 minutes ahead of my test run most of the time at this point! Fatty Puffer was all right; it can definitely use more practice, especially with your parasol spacing in phase 1, but it was still pretty decent.[/i]
I am surprised, to be honest. :P  But I guess better strats are certainly helping out.  As for Fatty Puffer, the first phase usually goes better; not getting the first phase before he rolls was pretty unusual.  It was definitely the first two Parasol Twirls that were the main mistake there.  Second phase went well though, but it could be a bit faster if I had started a Parasol Twirl at the very right side of the screen to hit him right after he ran into the wall.  I didn't think of that at the time.

kirbymastah

2012-03-30 04:00:25 pm

<(^_^)>

World 6
1:44:51 – You don’t need to fall to the ground after the first condor head; you can probably do a second condor head and land on the platform on top by a condor dive
1:45:01 – I mentioned this while you streamed this section, but to throw this out here again, you can slide attack through the water bubbles with the invincible candy; I guess you don’t bounce off of them since they’re in the air. Also, you can slide attack on every platform here (except before those three hovering enemies)
1:45:24 – Hmm maybe it’s more consistent if you do a condor dive before hitting the ultra fire enemy, so it’ll be sent flying to the right
1:49:05 – Good decision-making here with losing fire. I also agree that re-grabbing fire would be slower than just going forward to get water.
1:49:19 – X____X Well considering it’s a death, only losing a minute isn’t THAT bad; at least it isn’t 7-3 (and yeah, you lost about a minute)
1:50:25 – Yeah, I think taking it slow is much safer and doesn’t lose time anyways since you have to wait for the crushers. I actually would’ve gone for the slide-attack after this energy sphere, to try to squeeze through; I’ve never died, and I don’t think you can get squished since those two corners you’re squeezing through aren’t directly above/below each other.
1:51:17 – Awww you didn’t go for the shortcut Sad

That’s ok, considering you already had to redo this level once X_X. I think it’d definitely be good to include in the final run though; it’s scary, but not that difficult if you get there in time (which I do every time), and I actually never lost my stone before. It is scary though.
1:52:59 – I’m not sure what your rationale for ditching spark for sword is here. To plow through enemies in the conveyer belt in 6-3? Having a spark barrier while running is enough to protect you so you can keep running, and running is faster than drill stab.
1:55:14 – While jumping with parasol drills, avoid plowing through enemies by just jumping higher, so you jump over them. Parasol drills, while awesome, really really lag if you plow through any enemies
1:57:35 – Good fight with hammer! I like your strat a lot more than mine; wasn’t perfect (I can tell you wanted to finish it with that hammer flip) but still, very solid.
1:59:33 – I just tank through these spike bars; there’s no need for hammer anymore anyways
2:00:17 – I like this more than actually using cutter! Spitting Kibble Blade’s body at the switch for the energy sphere
2:01:22 – Oh, I wondered in the stream why you kept spark, instead of parasol, but I missed the part where parasol died. Oh well, it isn’t a big deal since the next level before fire is basically pre-determined

Overall – Not bad; World 6 can definitely user more practice than the first 5. Also Metal General, in general, sucks X_X I said this in the stream, and you probably already know, but you should space yourself from the misslie so that your flap animation won’t do damage (which if it does, it’ll cancel out the dive bomb hitbox). Still, besides the missile, the fight was pretty decent, considering how freaking hard it is to hit him.

World 7
2:08:49 – You can dive-bomb into this cannon, instead of hitting the wall. Not a big time-saver, only saves like a fifth of a second, but a time-saver nonetheless
2:10:16 – Even though we’re gonna get tornado soon anyways, I think it’s faster to get Fire before entering the door. Every time I played this level with water/wing, that last Flamer always charged towards the door, so you don’t have to go out of your way to get fire.
2:12:20 – Nice jumps with Snow Bowl Smiley

2:14:23 – Not a pretty sphere doomer fight Sad

I’m pretty sure 100-whip dash gives more DPS than the whip strikes (though yeah, you definitely want to do the whip strike as the first two blows at least because you can move while doing it)
2:18:04 – Yeahh I’m pretty sure it’s not worth getting the cannon; it doesn’t make traveling in the same room any faster, and killing bonkers is faster with hammer/tornado. It only lets you blow up those blocks right below, which saves like 2 seconds. Of course, I haven’t tested it yet, but…
2:22:00 – Leaf fight against the sphere doomer could use some practice, but it’s not bad
2:24:30 – Hmmm I dunno. Is it faster to get spark and easily dash through everything in the next screen, or get parasol for the little beginning bit of the next screen?
2:29:37 – I start off with a surf attack actually, since it hits both of them and puts you in a decent position for rainbow-spamming on both sphere doomers. Otherwise I won’t comment on this <_<
Overall – Probably could use as much practice as World 6, but at least you didn’t have any deaths or a run-killer in 7-3!

Challenge Rooms
Water – To get through those two fire blocks that blocked your surf, I just did a short-ish hop with 2 wave attacks, aimed between the two blocks. If aimed right, it gets rid of both of them, and really doesn’t take much time at all. But otherwise WTF
Bomb – I find that one of those poppy bros almost always tosses a bomb, so I don’t jump over them; do you usually make it over? But otherwise WTF
Hi-Jump – WTF
Sword – WTF
Whip – Oof, I know what you were trying to do in the first half =/ still, WTF
Item – In the second shoe room, I jump to the lava pillar from the last gordo; it works, and it’s a bit faster than what you do. And ouch about that ending X_X
Wing – WTF
Overall – WTF, this run of challenge rooms was just amazing. Not perfect, but close enough; it’s very obvious you’ve put in quite a bit of practice in them.

And herp derp about leaving the Lor XD

Landia – not the prettiest 1st phase X_X I’m sure it’s better to air drop those stars the mini-landias drop; you’ll almost always hit a landia.
Lor – Ok, I do think spamming charged shots is BARELY faster than the dive attacks. However, that’s only if every single star hits, and that’s… ridiculously hard. The dive attacks are definitely much more consistent. I think it’s best to fire charged shots while the Lor is stationary, and when it’s moving around or you’re forced to move to dodge its attacks, dive instead.
Magolor – Perfect 1st phase. Perfect 2nd phase. Solid ultra phase.
Magolor Soul – Ooof, just one hit away from finishing 1st phase before he goes in the background X_X Still, very good 2nd phase.

About Wing vs. Ninja:
-Landia 1st phase is definitely faster with Wing. 2nd phase is a little faster for sure, too, and wing has a much wider hitbox than ninja’s quad shock, so it’s more consistent too
-I’d say Magolor 1st phase is very, very close between Wing and Ninja. 2nd phase, Ninja is faster as it can finish 2nd phase just as he starts charging his beam, whereas Wing struggles a bit to finish Magolor before he fires his beam
-Magolor Soul, 1st phase is about even since both abilities can BARELY finish him before he goes into the background. 2nd phase, Ninja is barely faster; in my recent any% run (not youtube run) I finish off Magolor soul with Wing like 3 seconds after Ninja finishes it, and I wasn’t even aggressive enough when he swung his swords, so I’m sure I can make Wing at least a second faster.

I think it’s close; Wing definitely wins by a considerable margin against Landia, Ninja wins against Magolor by a slightly smaller margin, and if anything, Ninja finishes Magolor Soul about a second or two faster. I’m admittedly biased towards wing so I would say Wing’s faster than Ninja since it also has the mobility advantage in the lobby room just before Magolor and Landia, which saves a considerable amount of time.

Anyways. It was a very entertaining run to watch! I’m confident that sub-2:48 is possible merely from fixing your big mistakes and getting better at fighting with Wing. Sub-2:47 is probably possible too, but that'll take TONS of practice. Your first 4 worlds were VERY good, worlds 5-7 can use some more practice but were still pretty decent besides 6-2 herpderp, and some of the bosses (especially those you fight with wing) can use practice. I was most impressed with the challenge rooms though, I can tell you put tons of practice in them Smiley

Also, after watching worlds 1-4, I am not surprised at all that you were 2 minutes ahead my test run the entire time!

World 6
1:44:51 – You don’t need to fall to the ground after the first condor head; you can probably do a second condor head and land on the platform on top by a condor dive
1:45:01 – I mentioned this while you streamed this section, but to throw this out here again, you can slide attack through the water bubbles with the invincible candy; I guess you don’t bounce off of them since they’re in the air. Also, you can slide attack on every platform here (except before those three hovering enemies)
1:45:24 – Hmm maybe it’s more consistent if you do a condor dive before hitting the ultra fire enemy, so it’ll be sent flying to the right
1:49:05 – Good decision-making here with losing fire. I also agree that re-grabbing fire would be slower than just going forward to get water.
1:49:19 – X____X Well considering it’s a death, only losing a minute isn’t THAT bad; at least it isn’t 7-3 (and yeah, you lost about a minute)
1:50:25 – Yeah, I think taking it slow is much safer and doesn’t lose time anyways since you have to wait for the crushers. I actually would’ve gone for the slide-attack after this energy sphere, to try to squeeze through; I’ve never died, and I don’t think you can get squished since those two corners you’re squeezing through aren’t directly above/below each other.
1:51:17 – Awww you didn’t go for the shortcut :( That’s ok, considering you already had to redo this level once X_X. I think it’d definitely be good to include in the final run though; it’s scary, but not that difficult if you get there in time (which I do every time), and I actually never lost my stone before. It is scary though.
[b]1:52:59 – I’m not sure what your rationale for ditching spark for sword is here.  To plow through enemies in the conveyer belt in 6-3? Having a spark barrier while running is enough to protect you so you can keep running, and running is faster than drill stab. [/b]
1:55:14 – While jumping with parasol drills, avoid plowing through enemies by just jumping higher, so you jump over them. Parasol drills, while awesome, really really lag if you plow through any enemies
1:57:35 – Good fight with hammer! I like your strat a lot more than mine; wasn’t perfect (I can tell you wanted to finish it with that hammer flip) but still, very solid.
1:59:33 – I just tank through these spike bars; there’s no need for hammer anymore anyways
2:00:17 – I like this more than actually using cutter! Spitting Kibble Blade’s body at the switch for the energy sphere
2:01:22 – Oh, I wondered in the stream why you kept spark, instead of parasol, but I missed the part where parasol died. Oh well, it isn’t a big deal since the next level before fire is basically pre-determined

Overall – Not bad; World 6 can definitely user more practice than the first 5. Also Metal General, in general, sucks X_X I said this in the stream, and you probably already know, but you should space yourself from the misslie so that your flap animation won’t do damage (which if it does, it’ll cancel out the dive bomb hitbox). Still, besides the missile, the fight was pretty decent, considering how freaking hard it is to hit him.

World 7
2:08:49 – You can dive-bomb into this cannon, instead of hitting the wall. Not a big time-saver, only saves like a fifth of a second, but a time-saver nonetheless
[b]2:10:16 – Even though we’re gonna get tornado soon anyways, I think it’s faster to get Fire before entering the door. Every time I played this level with water/wing, that last Flamer always charged towards the door, so you don’t have to go out of your way to get fire.[/b]
2:12:20 – Nice jumps with Snow Bowl :)
2:14:23 – Not a pretty sphere doomer fight :( I’m pretty sure 100-whip dash gives more DPS than the whip strikes (though yeah, you definitely want to do the whip strike as the first two blows at least because you can move while doing it)
[b]2:18:04 – Yeahh I’m pretty sure it’s not worth getting the cannon; it doesn’t make traveling in the same room any faster, and killing bonkers is faster with hammer/tornado. It only lets you blow up those blocks right below, which saves like 2 seconds. Of course, I haven’t tested it yet, but…[/b]
2:22:00 – Leaf fight against the sphere doomer could use some practice, but it’s not bad
[b]2:24:30 – Hmmm I dunno. Is it faster to get spark and easily dash through everything in the next screen, or get parasol for the little beginning bit of the next screen?[/b]
2:29:37 – I start off with a surf attack actually, since it hits both of them and puts you in a decent position for rainbow-spamming on both sphere doomers. Otherwise I won’t comment on this <_<
Overall – Probably could use as much practice as World 6, but at least you didn’t have any deaths or a run-killer in 7-3!

Challenge Rooms
Water – To get through those two fire blocks that blocked your surf, I just did a short-ish hop with 2 wave attacks, aimed between the two blocks. If aimed right, it gets rid of both of them, and really doesn’t take much time at all. But otherwise WTF
Bomb – I find that one of those poppy bros almost always tosses a bomb, so I don’t jump over them; do you usually make it over? But otherwise WTF
Hi-Jump – WTF
Sword – WTF
Whip – Oof, I know what you were trying to do in the first half =/ still, WTF
Item – In the second shoe room, I jump to the lava pillar from the last gordo; it works, and it’s a bit faster than what you do. And ouch about that ending X_X
Wing – WTF
Overall – WTF, this run of challenge rooms was just amazing. Not perfect, but close enough; it’s very obvious you’ve put in quite a bit of practice in them.

And herp derp about leaving the Lor XD

Landia – not the prettiest 1st phase X_X I’m sure it’s better to air drop those stars the mini-landias drop; you’ll almost always hit a landia.
Lor – Ok, I do think spamming charged shots is BARELY faster than the dive attacks. However, that’s only if every single star hits, and that’s… ridiculously hard. The dive attacks are definitely much more consistent. I think it’s best to fire charged shots while the Lor is stationary, and when it’s moving around or you’re forced to move to dodge its attacks, dive instead.
Magolor – Perfect 1st phase. Perfect 2nd phase. Solid ultra phase.
Magolor Soul – Ooof, just one hit away from finishing 1st phase before he goes in the background X_X  Still, very good 2nd phase.

About Wing vs. Ninja:
-Landia 1st phase is definitely faster with Wing. 2nd phase is a little faster for sure, too, and wing has a much wider hitbox than ninja’s quad shock, so it’s more consistent too
-I’d say Magolor 1st phase is very, very close between Wing and Ninja. 2nd phase, Ninja is faster as it can finish 2nd phase just as he starts charging his beam, whereas Wing struggles a bit to finish Magolor before he fires his beam
-Magolor Soul, 1st phase is about even since both abilities can BARELY finish him before he goes into the background. 2nd phase, Ninja is barely faster; in my recent any% run (not youtube run) I finish off Magolor soul with Wing like 3 seconds after Ninja finishes it, and I wasn’t even aggressive enough when he swung his swords, so I’m sure I can make Wing at least a second faster.

I think it’s close; Wing definitely wins by a considerable margin against Landia, Ninja wins against Magolor by a slightly smaller margin, and if anything, Ninja finishes Magolor Soul about a second or two faster. I’m admittedly biased towards wing so I would say Wing’s faster than Ninja since it also has the mobility advantage in the lobby room just before Magolor and Landia, which saves a considerable amount of time.

Anyways. It was a very entertaining run to watch! I’m confident that sub-2:48 is possible merely from fixing your big mistakes and getting better at fighting with Wing. Sub-2:47 is probably possible too, but that'll take TONS of practice.  Your first 4 worlds were VERY good, worlds 5-7 can use some more practice but were still pretty decent besides 6-2 herpderp, and some of the bosses (especially those you fight with wing) can use practice. I was most impressed with the challenge rooms though, I can tell you put tons of practice in them :) Also, after watching worlds 1-4, I am not surprised at all that you were 2 minutes ahead my test run the entire time!

kirbymastah

2012-03-30 04:01:37 pm

<(^_^)>

Oh, yeah, about this:

Hmm, it might not be faster if you have to tank/take a backwards boost through each wheel, but let's see... it does look like if you tank through the first spike wheel, it might actually be possible to squeeze by the second spike wheel while it's at its highest point. I wonder how the timing would work out when you have to swim up from Spear though... well yeah, no matter how it works out, it seems that you wouldn't have to wait for that wheel for more than a second. That's worth a shot.

I don't recall ever accidentally taking a backwards boost; those spike balls always boosted me forward, so I'm sure it helps to tank through.

yoshifan

Edit history:

yoshifan: 2012-03-30 05:55:48 pm

2012-03-30 04:39:11 pm

World 4

1:00:26 – Yeah, good idea to take this spot slow (After practicing making it under the gate first try). The spot where you can jump up above without touching the spikes is VERY deceptive, for some reason, and losing fire here loses a TON of time.
I remember what you did in your test run here (roll and then Burn), though I messed it up. This room is annoying, but yeah, at least I didn't jump into spikes.

1:01:06 – You can start jumping on the snowballs right after Kirby ‘bounces’ in his shoe for the third time.
Oh heh, I never really used a cue like that for timing it. Good to know.

1:02:00 – I think Beam is faster against Bonkers here. I compared your fire fight with my beam fight; Fire took 16 seconds and Beam took 14 seconds. You missed a few fire breath hits, probably lost about 1.5 seconds, and I missed the initial wave beam and did a beam whip instead of a beam blast, I think that’s also a loss of about 1.5ish seconds. Beam takes an extra second to switch out for Fire. So, very roughly estimating, ideally fire takes 14.5 seconds, and Beam takes 12.5 seconds, plus the extra second to get it. Very, very close, though I think Beam is barely faster (and it looks cooler IMO; yeah, I’m biased towards it :P)
Yeah, I more often get Beam actually. Felt like trying out Fire here though.

1:03:36 – Now this is probably faster!
I like this trick, even if it doesn't save much. It's not that risky as long as you avoid the temptation to hold 1 before throwing the key. Wink

(In other words, it pretty much always works for me when I just tap 1 at the height of my jump.)

1:08:20 – Mmm water galboros could definitely use practice and experimentation with ice. You always want to do near-full-jump hyper sprinkles, since you’ll get two hits in per jump. I find it easier to get those hits by hugging the right wall, since I can simply hold right without having to worry about aiming (but I take a hit)
Oh, didn't think about hugging the right wall. That definitely sounds like it'll work. (And yeah, I was never too sure what to do after the first super ice sprinkle.)

1:11:27 – This snow bowl segment was practically perfect!
I think it might actually be better to restart the snow bowl at around 1:11:19-1:11:20. Not sure though.

Overall – Apparently you’ve been practicing every world about ten times more than me. In other words, also very good. Goriath could use a little optimization, but it’s not more than a second or two; you killed him before he fired his hadoukens, so that’s good enough in SS
I just recently noticed that in your test run, you did a little jump before the ground collapsed each time, so that you were lined up well to continue slashing Goriath while falling down. I think this might've been the first time I tried that. It's a bit harder than it looks.

World 5

1:20:40 – Ahh, I’ll be honest, this room was a bit messy before you got Wing =/ traveling on the ground with ninja is definitely faster than the air-dive stuff, though I did the air-dives at the very beginning because then I wouldn’t have to bother jumping to the higher platforms.
To be honest, I have to figure out what I'm doing here, heh. I even forgot about the proper way to do the downkick-flutter trick (not holding right) at first.

1:22:08 – You can go through these spike balls earlier, without having to wait
I haven't practiced this part much recently, so I wanted to make sure I was in position to condor head through the spike balls instead of landing just short of them.

1:28:02 – Was floating here at the start of 5-3 an accident?
Yeah, I mess up these jumps a lot for some reason.

1:28:27 – Probably faster to stop floating and start jumping up platforms here
I'm actually not sure now whether jumping up or fluttering up is faster. They seem pretty close. Looks a bit weird though because I decided to do a bit of both. >_>

1:35:24 – Good Sphere Doomer fight with spear; It may be better to wait until you’re at the full height of each jump before throwing spears, so you can throw 3… I dunno
That might work; not sure if I've tested it out honestly.

1:36:22 – Herp Derp
That was me checking to see if I did the glitch to skip 5-5. >_> <_<

1:36:44 – I’m assuming you were gonna fire a fully-charged hadouken, but didn’t have enough time. I don’t spam hadoukens as quickly as possible though, as you noticed that if you do, some of the hadoukens will not hurt Gigant Edge because of invincibility frames. I wait a little bit between each hadouken to make sure that they all hit (like, a quarter of a second each)
Yeah, I normally do that too. It felt like I hadn't practiced 5-5 in forever, for some reason, so I kept having late realizations about what to do during this fight.

1:37:05 – When you’re one slide-attack distance away from the door, you can do a drill stab into upward slash (upward slash combos from drill stab), and you’ll be in position to enter the door. I’m sure it’s a tad faster, and fancier too
Upward slash combos from drill stab? Whoa, did not know that.

1:38:32 – Just when Dubior charges, I take the time to position myself on the left, then dodge the hit with a rainbow, since he takes less damage while charging
Ah, good idea here.

Overall – Not quite as good as the previous 4 worlds, but still pretty good considering how far you are in the run (and considering how good the first 4 worlds were, being worse than them doesn't mean much ). The main thing is that you can definitely use some practice against bosses with Wing. Grand Doomer was still pretty good though, and the ultra sword segment was practically perfect.
Yeah, Wing bosses were not quite on point in this run. For instance, I think I was going to do dive bomb cancels on 5-2 Moundo when he jumped, but my fingers rebelled for some reason.

World 6

1:44:51 – You don’t need to fall to the ground after the first condor head; you can probably do a second condor head and land on the platform on top by a condor dive
Ah, good idea here.

1:45:01 – I mentioned this while you streamed this section, but to throw this out here again, you can slide attack through the water bubbles with the invincible candy; I guess you don’t bounce off of them since they’re in the air. Also, you can slide attack on every platform here (except before those three hovering enemies)
Yeah, I read that in the stream. I occasionally hit the water bubble with the slide, but I guess it's a matter of starting the slide early enough. Or maybe late enough? And I wasn't sure about sliding on each of those platforms because of the slow air time after sliding off of the edge, but I think you might be right. Worth a test though.

1:45:24 – Hmm maybe it’s more consistent if you do a condor dive before hitting the ultra fire enemy, so it’ll be sent flying to the right
Yeah, I think that's the best plan. (Looking at my run again, it looks like I did a very good job of sending it left, heh. >_>)

1:49:19 – X____X Well considering it’s a death, only losing a minute isn’t THAT bad; at least it isn’t 7-3 (and yeah, you lost about a minute)
Yeah, about 1:17. Basically, the Wave Surf at the beginning of the room threw off my usual timing, and then I improvised really badly.

1:50:25 – Yeah, I think taking it slow is much safer and doesn’t lose time anyways since you have to wait for the crushers. I actually would’ve gone for the slide-attack after this energy sphere, to try to squeeze through; I’ve never died, and I don’t think you can get squished since those two corners you’re squeezing through aren’t directly above/below each other.
I'm not sure about this particular crusher, though I've gotten crushed by the thing at the end of the tornado room in 2-3, which looks pretty similar. Also, instead of the geyser, I was intending to do a rainbow, which almost always gives me enough time to get through.

1:52:59 – I’m not sure what your rationale for ditching spark for sword is here. To plow through enemies in the conveyer belt in 6-3? Having a spark barrier while running is enough to protect you so you can keep running, and running is faster than drill stab.
That was an old habit, pretty much. I would've kept Spark if I hadn't dropped it. >_>;

1:55:14 – While jumping with parasol drills, avoid plowing through enemies by just jumping higher, so you jump over them. Parasol drills, while awesome, really really lag if you plow through any enemies
Yeah, that's a good point that I often overlook.

1:57:35 – Good fight with hammer! I like your strat a lot more than mine; wasn’t perfect (I can tell you wanted to finish it with that hammer flip) but still, very solid.
I don't actually get that hammer flip finish much anymore. I wonder if the strategy would still work if I did 3 aerial swings and 1 ground swing to start, which would do a bit more damage than 4 aerial swings.

1:59:33 – I just tank through these spike bars; there’s no need for hammer anymore anyways
Agreed, I think. Not slowing down for any spike traps in this passage could mean hitting three spike traps total, depending on how things go (although I guess that would've been all right, considering my health at that point). I remember in your test run, you got past the spike bars without getting hit and without slowing down (which was pretty crazy, never managed that) and then still barely managed to beat the last spike column.

2:01:22 – Oh, I wondered in the stream why you kept spark, instead of parasol, but I missed the part where parasol died. Oh well, it isn’t a big deal since the next level before fire is basically pre-determined
Yeah, the key grab threw me off there.

Overall – Not bad; World 6 can definitely user more practice than the first 5. Also Metal General, in general, sucks X_X I said this in the stream, and you probably already know, but you should space yourself from the misslie so that your flap animation won’t do damage (which if it does, it’ll cancel out the dive bomb hitbox). Still, besides the missile, the fight was pretty decent, considering how freaking hard it is to hit him.
I never really thought about that actually (not staying too close when flap-canceling). Still, I almost always blow up the rocket in time, but I guess I happened to handle it differently from normal this time. Also, I messed up the first phase; I should've done a wingflap -> dive bomb after the condor head + dive, followed by more dive bombs. Even when landing every dive bomb, that would've netted me a first phase finish before he went to the center.

World 7

2:08:49 – You can dive-bomb into this cannon, instead of hitting the wall. Not a big time-saver, only saves like a fifth of a second, but a time-saver nonetheless
Ah yeah, good call.

2:10:16 – Even though we’re gonna get tornado soon anyways, I think it’s faster to get Fire before entering the door. Every time I played this level with water/wing, that last Flamer always charged towards the door, so you don’t have to go out of your way to get fire.
That's a good idea too. Actually, I used to do a fountain hover instead of fluttering here, and the flamer would often charge right into the lava and kill itself... I suppose that won't happen if I stay high enough for at least a moment, though.

2:12:20 – Nice jumps with Snow Bowl
It never really occurred to me to do those jumps off the tops of slopes, like I did here. I'm definitely doing that from now on though.

2:14:23 – Not a pretty sphere doomer fight I’m pretty sure 100-whip dash gives more DPS than the whip strikes (though yeah, you definitely want to do the whip strike as the first two blows at least because you can move while doing it)
Yeah, I kept missing with the second downward whip strike, either from not staying close enough or high enough. It usually goes better than this. But yeah, 100-whip dash might be better for most of the fight, despite its hitlag.

2:18:04 – Yeahh I’m pretty sure it’s not worth getting the cannon; it doesn’t make traveling in the same room any faster, and killing bonkers is faster with hammer/tornado. It only lets you blow up those blocks right below, which saves like 2 seconds. Of course, I haven’t tested it yet, but…
I'm honestly not sure at all, needs a test I guess.

2:24:30 – Hmmm I dunno. Is it faster to get spark and easily dash through everything in the next screen, or get parasol for the little beginning bit of the next screen?
Well, when Dubior is about to fall into the pit like that, I'll bet going Ice -> Parasol would be faster.

2:29:37 – I start off with a surf attack actually, since it hits both of them and puts you in a decent position for rainbow-spamming on both sphere doomers. Otherwise I won’t comment on this <_<
Ah, that's not a bad idea. I'll comment on this: it might be a good idea to stop rainbowing when that fire-charged Sphere Doomer is moving right down on me. >_>

Challenge Rooms

Water – To get through those two fire blocks that blocked your surf, I just did a short-ish hop with 2 wave attacks, aimed between the two blocks. If aimed right, it gets rid of both of them, and really doesn’t take much time at all. But otherwise WTF
Ah, nice! That part had been bugging me. I'll try for a 1:16 run sometime maybe; my best is 1:15 (and I'm definitely happy with 1:14 for a SS).

Bomb – I find that one of those poppy bros almost always tosses a bomb, so I don’t jump over them; do you usually make it over? But otherwise WTF
I make it over reasonably often. I did the bomb set (1 next to enemy) following by the bomb drop (down+1) as planned, but maybe I was just a bit too slow.

Hi-Jump was about a half second from my best, and Sword was about a second off, so definitely happy about those.

Whip – Oof, I know what you were trying to do in the first half =/ still, WTF
Yeah, I managed to get hit by like... everything possible in the first half. I was impressed. Second half went to plan though.

Item – In the second shoe room, I jump to the lava pillar from the last gordo; it works, and it’s a bit faster than what you do. And ouch about that ending X_X
Ah okay. And yeah, that's probably the biggest challenge room mistake here.

Landia – not the prettiest 1st phase X_X I’m sure it’s better to air drop those stars the mini-landias drop; you’ll almost always hit a landia.
Hmm, yeah, never thought about doing that.

Lor – Ok, I do think spamming charged shots is BARELY faster than the dive attacks. However, that’s only if every single star hits, and that’s… ridiculously hard. The dive attacks are definitely much more consistent. I think it’s best to fire charged shots while the Lor is stationary, and when it’s moving around or you’re forced to move to dodge its attacks, dive instead.
That seems like a pretty sound plan. So I guess dives for the first phase, charged shots for the second phase (until he gets to the left side). Also, doing a dive just before he gets into the invincible sphere would be a good idea.

Wing vs. Ninja for the final battles: I remembered Ninja being pretty good for Magolor, and I hadn't practiced Wing battles that much lately, so I thought I'd give Ninja a shot. It would definitely be interesting to see which is ultimately faster, though (or if Hammer manages to beat out both).

Practice: I've actually practiced World 6 and parts of World 7 (well, mainly 7-3) a lot, but mainly for not screwing up the major parts and maybe not with so much of a focus on optimization. I think other factors, though, were (1) recent practice versus overall practice, and (2) simply certain levels being more involved than others. I've probably put the least amount of practice into World 4 overall, but it's a relatively easy world, and I had one or two practice runs of it the day before. Worlds 5-7 maybe haven't gotten as much attention from me in the past few weeks, and they're definitely harder than the first 4 worlds.

I did work on optimizing a select few levels though, like 2-2 and 2-3, and most of the challenge rooms. I'm glad that showed in the run! Once we put more attention to detail into more of the levels, I think we'll end up cutting a lot more time than we expected to.

Also, I'm working on adding captions to the 2:50 run on YouTube, to explain various things (and point out possible improvements). I've never done this before, but I'm going with captions instead of annotations so that they're more portable (i.e. I could export the captions and use them in places other than YouTube). For making captions, I'm finding that Subtitle Edit is a pretty cool program.

[i]World 4[/i]

[i]1:00:26 – Yeah, good idea to take this spot slow (After practicing making it under the gate first try). The spot where you can jump up above without touching the spikes is VERY deceptive, for some reason, and losing fire here loses a TON of time.[/i]
I remember what you did in your test run here (roll and then Burn), though I messed it up.  This room is annoying, but yeah, at least I didn't jump into spikes.

[i]1:01:06 – You can start jumping on the snowballs right after Kirby ‘bounces’ in his shoe for the third time.[/i]
Oh heh, I never really used a cue like that for timing it.  Good to know.

[i][b]1:02:00 – I think Beam is faster against Bonkers here. I compared your fire fight with my beam fight; Fire took 16 seconds and Beam took 14 seconds. You missed a few fire breath hits, probably lost about 1.5 seconds, and I missed the initial wave beam and did a beam whip instead of a beam blast, I think that’s also a loss of about 1.5ish seconds. Beam takes an extra second to switch out for Fire. So, very roughly estimating, ideally fire takes 14.5 seconds, and Beam takes 12.5 seconds, plus the extra second to get it. Very, very close, though I think Beam is barely faster (and it looks cooler IMO; yeah, I’m biased towards it :P) [/b][/i]
Yeah, I more often get Beam actually.  Felt like trying out Fire here though.

[i]1:03:36 – Now this is probably faster![/i]
I like this trick, even if it doesn't save much.  It's not that risky as long as you avoid the temptation to hold 1 before throwing the key. ;)  (In other words, it pretty much always works for me when I just tap 1 at the height of my jump.)

[i]1:08:20 – Mmm water galboros could definitely use practice and experimentation with ice. You always want to do near-full-jump hyper sprinkles, since you’ll get two hits in per jump. I find it easier to get those hits by hugging the right wall, since I can simply hold right without having to worry about aiming (but I take a hit)[/i]
Oh, didn't think about hugging the right wall.  That definitely sounds like it'll work.  (And yeah, I was never too sure what to do after the first super ice sprinkle.)

[i]1:11:27 – This snow bowl segment was practically perfect![/i]
I think it might actually be better to restart the snow bowl at around 1:11:19-1:11:20.  Not sure though.

[i]Overall – Apparently you’ve been practicing every world about ten times more than me. In other words, also very good. Goriath could use a little optimization, but it’s not more than a second or two; you killed him before he fired his hadoukens, so that’s good enough in SS :P[/i]
I just recently noticed that in your test run, you did a little jump before the ground collapsed each time, so that you were lined up well to continue slashing Goriath while falling down.  I think this might've been the first time I tried that.  It's a bit harder than it looks.

[i]World 5[/i]

[i]1:20:40 – Ahh, I’ll be honest, this room was a bit messy before you got Wing =/ traveling on the ground with ninja is definitely faster than the air-dive stuff, though I did the air-dives at the very beginning because then I wouldn’t have to bother jumping to the higher platforms.[/i]
To be honest, I have to figure out what I'm doing here, heh.  I even forgot about the proper way to do the downkick-flutter trick (not holding right) at first.

[i]1:22:08 – You can go through these spike balls earlier, without having to wait[/i]
I haven't practiced this part much recently, so I wanted to make sure I was in position to condor head through the spike balls instead of landing just short of them.

[i]1:28:02 – Was floating here at the start of 5-3 an accident?[/i]
Yeah, I mess up these jumps a lot for some reason.

[i]1:28:27 – Probably faster to stop floating and start jumping up platforms here[/i]
I'm actually not sure now whether jumping up or fluttering up is faster.  They seem pretty close.  Looks a bit weird though because I decided to do a bit of both. >_>

[i]1:35:24 – Good Sphere Doomer fight with spear; It may be better to wait until you’re at the full height of each jump before throwing spears, so you can throw 3… I dunno[/i]
That might work; not sure if I've tested it out honestly.

[i]1:36:22 – Herp Derp[/i]
That was me checking to see if I did the glitch to skip 5-5. >_> <_<

[i]1:36:44 – I’m assuming you were gonna fire a fully-charged hadouken, but didn’t have enough time. I don’t spam hadoukens as quickly as possible though, as you noticed that if you do, some of the hadoukens will not hurt Gigant Edge because of invincibility frames. I wait a little bit between each hadouken to make sure that they all hit (like, a quarter of a second each)[/i]
Yeah, I normally do that too.  It felt like I hadn't practiced 5-5 in forever, for some reason, so I kept having late realizations about what to do during this fight.

[i]1:37:05 – When you’re one slide-attack distance away from the door, you can do a drill stab into upward slash (upward slash combos from drill stab), and you’ll be in position to enter the door. I’m sure it’s a tad faster, and fancier too :)[/i]
Upward slash combos from drill stab?  Whoa, did not know that.

[i]1:38:32 – Just when Dubior charges, I take the time to position myself on the left, then dodge the hit with a rainbow, since he takes less damage while charging[/i]
Ah, good idea here.

[i]Overall – Not quite as good as the previous 4 worlds, but still pretty good considering how far you are in the run (and considering how good the first 4 worlds were, being worse than them doesn't mean much :) ). The main thing is that you can definitely use some practice against bosses with Wing. Grand Doomer was still pretty good though, and the ultra sword segment was practically perfect.[/i]
Yeah, Wing bosses were not quite on point in this run.  For instance, I think I was going to do dive bomb cancels on 5-2 Moundo when he jumped, but my fingers rebelled for some reason.

[i]World 6[/i]

[i]1:44:51 – You don’t need to fall to the ground after the first condor head; you can probably do a second condor head and land on the platform on top by a condor dive[/i]
Ah, good idea here.

[i]1:45:01 – I mentioned this while you streamed this section, but to throw this out here again, you can slide attack through the water bubbles with the invincible candy; I guess you don’t bounce off of them since they’re in the air. Also, you can slide attack on every platform here (except before those three hovering enemies)[/i]
Yeah, I read that in the stream.  I occasionally hit the water bubble with the slide, but I guess it's a matter of starting the slide early enough.  Or maybe late enough?  And I wasn't sure about sliding on each of those platforms because of the slow air time after sliding off of the edge, but I think you might be right.  Worth a test though.

[i]1:45:24 – Hmm maybe it’s more consistent if you do a condor dive before hitting the ultra fire enemy, so it’ll be sent flying to the right[/i]
Yeah, I think that's the best plan.  (Looking at my run again, it looks like I did a very good job of sending it left, heh. >_>)

[i]1:49:19 – X____X Well considering it’s a death, only losing a minute isn’t THAT bad; at least it isn’t 7-3 (and yeah, you lost about a minute)[/i]
Yeah, about 1:17.  Basically, the Wave Surf at the beginning of the room threw off my usual timing, and then I improvised really badly.

[i]1:50:25 – Yeah, I think taking it slow is much safer and doesn’t lose time anyways since you have to wait for the crushers. I actually would’ve gone for the slide-attack after this energy sphere, to try to squeeze through; I’ve never died, and I don’t think you can get squished since those two corners you’re squeezing through aren’t directly above/below each other.[/i]
I'm not sure about this particular crusher, though I've gotten crushed by the thing at the end of the tornado room in 2-3, which looks pretty similar.  Also, instead of the geyser, I was intending to do a rainbow, which almost always gives me enough time to get through.

[i][b]1:52:59 – I’m not sure what your rationale for ditching spark for sword is here.  To plow through enemies in the conveyer belt in 6-3? Having a spark barrier while running is enough to protect you so you can keep running, and running is faster than drill stab. [/b][/i]
That was an old habit, pretty much.  I would've kept Spark if I hadn't dropped it. >_>;

[i]1:55:14 – While jumping with parasol drills, avoid plowing through enemies by just jumping higher, so you jump over them. Parasol drills, while awesome, really really lag if you plow through any enemies[/i]
Yeah, that's a good point that I often overlook.

[i]1:57:35 – Good fight with hammer! I like your strat a lot more than mine; wasn’t perfect (I can tell you wanted to finish it with that hammer flip) but still, very solid.[/i]
I don't actually get that hammer flip finish much anymore.  I wonder if the strategy would still work if I did 3 aerial swings and 1 ground swing to start, which would do a bit more damage than 4 aerial swings.

[i]1:59:33 – I just tank through these spike bars; there’s no need for hammer anymore anyways[/i]
Agreed, I think.  Not slowing down for any spike traps in this passage could mean hitting three spike traps total, depending on how things go (although I guess that would've been all right, considering my health at that point).  I remember in your test run, you got past the spike bars without getting hit and without slowing down (which was pretty crazy, never managed that) and then still barely managed to beat the last spike column.

[i]2:01:22 – Oh, I wondered in the stream why you kept spark, instead of parasol, but I missed the part where parasol died. Oh well, it isn’t a big deal since the next level before fire is basically pre-determined[/i]
Yeah, the key grab threw me off there.

[i]Overall – Not bad; World 6 can definitely user more practice than the first 5. Also Metal General, in general, sucks X_X I said this in the stream, and you probably already know, but you should space yourself from the misslie so that your flap animation won’t do damage (which if it does, it’ll cancel out the dive bomb hitbox). Still, besides the missile, the fight was pretty decent, considering how freaking hard it is to hit him.[/i]
I never really thought about that actually (not staying too close when flap-canceling).  Still, I almost always blow up the rocket in time, but I guess I happened to handle it differently from normal this time.  Also, I messed up the first phase; I should've done a wingflap -> dive bomb after the condor head + dive, followed by more dive bombs.  Even when landing every dive bomb, that would've netted me a first phase finish before he went to the center.

[i]World 7[/i]

[i]2:08:49 – You can dive-bomb into this cannon, instead of hitting the wall. Not a big time-saver, only saves like a fifth of a second, but a time-saver nonetheless[/i]
Ah yeah, good call.

[i][b]2:10:16 – Even though we’re gonna get tornado soon anyways, I think it’s faster to get Fire before entering the door. Every time I played this level with water/wing, that last Flamer always charged towards the door, so you don’t have to go out of your way to get fire.[/b][/i]
That's a good idea too.  Actually, I used to do a fountain hover instead of fluttering here, and the flamer would often charge right into the lava and kill itself... I suppose that won't happen if I stay high enough for at least a moment, though.

[i]2:12:20 – Nice jumps with Snow Bowl :)[/i]
It never really occurred to me to do those jumps off the tops of slopes, like I did here.  I'm definitely doing that from now on though.

[i]2:14:23 – Not a pretty sphere doomer fight :( I’m pretty sure 100-whip dash gives more DPS than the whip strikes (though yeah, you definitely want to do the whip strike as the first two blows at least because you can move while doing it)[/i]
Yeah, I kept missing with the second downward whip strike, either from not staying close enough or high enough.  It usually goes better than this.  But yeah, 100-whip dash might be better for most of the fight, despite its hitlag.

[i][b]2:18:04 – Yeahh I’m pretty sure it’s not worth getting the cannon; it doesn’t make traveling in the same room any faster, and killing bonkers is faster with hammer/tornado. It only lets you blow up those blocks right below, which saves like 2 seconds. Of course, I haven’t tested it yet, but…[/b][/i]
I'm honestly not sure at all, needs a test I guess.

[i][b]2:24:30 – Hmmm I dunno. Is it faster to get spark and easily dash through everything in the next screen, or get parasol for the little beginning bit of the next screen?[/b][/i]
Well, when Dubior is about to fall into the pit like that, I'll bet going Ice -> Parasol would be faster.

[i]2:29:37 – I start off with a surf attack actually, since it hits both of them and puts you in a decent position for rainbow-spamming on both sphere doomers. Otherwise I won’t comment on this <_<[/i]
Ah, that's not a bad idea.  I'll comment on this: it might be a good idea to stop rainbowing when that fire-charged Sphere Doomer is moving right down on me. >_>

[i]Challenge Rooms[/i]

[i]Water – To get through those two fire blocks that blocked your surf, I just did a short-ish hop with 2 wave attacks, aimed between the two blocks. If aimed right, it gets rid of both of them, and really doesn’t take much time at all. But otherwise WTF[/i]
Ah, nice!  That part had been bugging me.  I'll try for a 1:16 run sometime maybe; my best is 1:15 (and I'm definitely happy with 1:14 for a SS).

[i]Bomb – I find that one of those poppy bros almost always tosses a bomb, so I don’t jump over them; do you usually make it over? But otherwise WTF[/i]
I make it over reasonably often.  I did the bomb set (1 next to enemy) following by the bomb drop (down+1) as planned, but maybe I was just a bit too slow.

Hi-Jump was about a half second from my best, and Sword was about a second off, so definitely happy about those.

[i]Whip – Oof, I know what you were trying to do in the first half =/ still, WTF[/i]
Yeah, I managed to get hit by like... everything possible in the first half.  I was impressed.  Second half went to plan though.

[i]Item – In the second shoe room, I jump to the lava pillar from the last gordo; it works, and it’s a bit faster than what you do. And ouch about that ending X_X[/i]
Ah okay.  And yeah, that's probably the biggest challenge room mistake here.

[i]Landia – not the prettiest 1st phase X_X I’m sure it’s better to air drop those stars the mini-landias drop; you’ll almost always hit a landia.[/i]
Hmm, yeah, never thought about doing that.

[i]Lor – Ok, I do think spamming charged shots is BARELY faster than the dive attacks. However, that’s only if every single star hits, and that’s… ridiculously hard. The dive attacks are definitely much more consistent. I think it’s best to fire charged shots while the Lor is stationary, and when it’s moving around or you’re forced to move to dodge its attacks, dive instead.[/i]
That seems like a pretty sound plan.  So I guess dives for the first phase, charged shots for the second phase (until he gets to the left side).  Also, doing a dive just before he gets into the invincible sphere would be a good idea.

Wing vs. Ninja for the final battles: I remembered Ninja being pretty good for Magolor, and I hadn't practiced Wing battles that much lately, so I thought I'd give Ninja a shot.  It would definitely be interesting to see which is ultimately faster, though (or if Hammer manages to beat out both).

Practice: I've actually practiced World 6 and parts of World 7 (well, mainly 7-3) a lot, but mainly for not screwing up the major parts and maybe not with so much of a focus on optimization.  I think other factors, though, were (1) recent practice versus overall practice, and (2) simply certain levels being more involved than others.  I've probably put the least amount of practice into World 4 overall, but it's a relatively easy world, and I had one or two practice runs of it the day before.  Worlds 5-7 maybe haven't gotten as much attention from me in the past few weeks, and they're definitely harder than the first 4 worlds.

I did work on optimizing a select few levels though, like 2-2 and 2-3, and most of the challenge rooms.  I'm glad that showed in the run!  Once we put more attention to detail into more of the levels, I think we'll end up cutting a lot more time than we expected to.

Also, I'm working on adding captions to the 2:50 run on YouTube, to explain various things (and point out possible improvements).  I've never done this before, but I'm going with captions instead of annotations so that they're more portable (i.e. I could export the captions and use them in places other than YouTube).  For making captions, I'm finding that Subtitle Edit is a pretty cool program.

kirbymastah

2012-03-30 11:32:59 pm

<(^_^)>

I think it might actually be better to restart the snow bowl at around 1:11:19-1:11:20. Not sure though.

Hmm yeah now that you mention it, I typically restart snowbowl around that time, before the gap, and then jump right after to jump over that gap

I just recently noticed that in your test run, you did a little jump before the ground collapsed each time, so that you were lined up well to continue slashing Goriath while falling down. I think this might've been the first time I tried that. It's a bit harder than it looks.

Yeah it definitely helps to add a few extra blows; I time it so that I'm at the highest height possible to continue slashing while we're both falling. Nothing a little practice can't fix though Smiley

That was me checking to see if I did the glitch to skip 5-5. >_> <_<

Wait WHAT????? Wait... WHATTTTTT????

Yeah, I read that in the stream. I occasionally hit the water bubble with the slide, but I guess it's a matter of starting the slide early enough. Or maybe late enough? And I wasn't sure about sliding on each of those platforms because of the slow air time after sliding off of the edge, but I think you might be right. Worth a test though.

I don't think there's really that slow air time after sliding off, because you get boosted by the invincibility anyways. Though yeah, if you're falling from a really high height, then I'd rather just jump over at running speed.

2:29:37 – Ah, that's not a bad idea. I'll comment on this: it might be a good idea to stop rainbowing when that fire-charged Sphere Doomer is moving right down on me. >_>

I actually space myself away from the right wall, so when the fire sphere doomer begins to charge, I'm to its left while it's charging. At least I think I do it in my test run...

Lor - That seems like a pretty sound plan. So I guess dives for the first phase, charged shots for the second phase (until he gets to the left side). Also, doing a dive just before he gets into the invincible sphere would be a good idea.

I typically just use pure dives, as it's really consistent, and it's only slower than a perfect spamming-projectiles by like a second or two. Since the Lor moves around at the start of first phase, I'd actually use dives until it positions itself in the center; 2nd phase, definitely charge shots (using dives when necessary to dodge). But I'm not a fan of charge-shots, and I just use pure dives; I typically leave the Lor with enough HP to get KO'd by one dive after it charges across the screen.

And you probably remember this from the stream, but I compared my hammer time with the final fights (which were practically perfect) in my 100% test run against wing in my new any% run, and yeah, hammer IS faster, but not fast enough to warrant that LONG opening-doors animation of the ability-room. So I'm sure we don't want to use hammer, unless there's some really convenient way to get hammer without the ability-rooms, right before the final fights.

Hmmm I don't know too much about captions and subtitles for youtube, but it's definitely a good idea to do so; there might be a ton of things that others would be "huh?" about in your run. Smiley

[i]I think it might actually be better to restart the snow bowl at around 1:11:19-1:11:20.  Not sure though.[/i]

Hmm yeah now that you mention it, I typically restart snowbowl around that time, before the gap, and then jump right after to jump over that gap

[i]I just recently noticed that in your test run, you did a little jump before the ground collapsed each time, so that you were lined up well to continue slashing Goriath while falling down.  I think this might've been the first time I tried that.  It's a bit harder than it looks.[/i]

Yeah it definitely helps to add a few extra blows; I time it so that I'm at the highest height possible to continue slashing while we're both falling. Nothing a little practice can't fix though :)

[i]That was me checking to see if I did the glitch to skip 5-5. >_> <_<[/i]

Wait WHAT????? Wait... WHATTTTTT????

[i]Yeah, I read that in the stream.  I occasionally hit the water bubble with the slide, but I guess it's a matter of starting the slide early enough.  Or maybe late enough?  And I wasn't sure about sliding on each of those platforms because of the slow air time after sliding off of the edge, but I think you might be right.  Worth a test though.[/i]

I don't think there's really that slow air time after sliding off, because you get boosted by the invincibility anyways. Though yeah, if you're falling from a really high height, then I'd rather just jump over at running speed.

[i]2:29:37 – Ah, that's not a bad idea.  I'll comment on this: it might be a good idea to stop rainbowing when that fire-charged Sphere Doomer is moving right down on me. >_>[/i]

I actually space myself away from the right wall, so when the fire sphere doomer begins to charge, I'm to its left while it's charging. At least I think I do it in my test run...

[i] Lor - That seems like a pretty sound plan.  So I guess dives for the first phase, charged shots for the second phase (until he gets to the left side).  Also, doing a dive just before he gets into the invincible sphere would be a good idea.[/i]

I typically just use pure dives, as it's really consistent, and it's only slower than a perfect spamming-projectiles by like a second or two. Since the Lor moves around at the start of first phase, I'd actually use dives until it positions itself in the center; 2nd phase, definitely charge shots (using dives when necessary to dodge). But I'm not a fan of charge-shots, and I just use pure dives; I typically leave the Lor with enough HP to get KO'd by one dive after it charges across the screen.

And you probably remember this from the stream, but I compared my hammer time with the final fights (which were practically perfect) in my 100% test run against wing in my new any% run, and yeah, hammer IS faster, but not fast enough to warrant that LONG opening-doors animation of the ability-room. So I'm sure we don't want to use hammer, unless there's some really convenient way to get hammer without the ability-rooms, right before the final fights.

Hmmm I don't know too much about captions and subtitles for youtube, but it's definitely a good idea to do so; there might be a ton of things that others would be "huh?" about in your run. :)

yoshifan

2012-03-31 02:13:00 am

Cool, thanks for the comments. Plenty of things to revisit now!

And I was kidding about 5-5.

kirbymastah

2012-03-31 10:01:47 am

<(^_^)>

oh haha oops XD I missed the sarcasm.

I'll definitely be trying out any% more actually; for some reason, I really enjoy doing it. Maybe because using wing is so fun, as opposed to spamming fire/wheel in other Kirby games...

yoshifan

2012-04-02 01:28:48 am

On that note, I never got around to more detailed comments on your 1:46 any%, so here we go:

1-1 (1:46) - I'm curious, what's your HOME button strategy? It looks like you pretty much keep pressing HOME until you see Wing once, let it roll and count the ability slots, press HOME again when you're almost at Wing again, then un-HOME and time the 1 press. Did I get it right? Tongue

1-2 (3:55) - dodging the sword slash with a dive, that was awesome.

1-3 (4:34) - the first of many door dives. Smiley

1-Boss - yeah, I was wondering about the second half strat like you mentioned, but it does look like Wing damages fast enough that not getting inhaled could save time. Also, nice job keeping up the dives for so long, heh.

Really clean World 1, and you only got hit like twice.

2-1 - flawless first room... and flawless second room! Actually, this entire level was ridiculously smooth. Great job beating Bonkers before the spins, too.

2-2 - also really good. At the end, very nice job with getting past the flamethrowers. I didn't think to take damage from a nearby enemy to pass through the fire.

2-3 - well, first substantial mistakes of the run, though it had to happen sometime.

2-Boss - interesting strategy to stay close enough to Mr. Dooter on the first half. Never thought of shuttle looping those stars for extra damage!

Still going really strong, overall.

3-1 (23:08) - I usually land and jump again here just to be safe, personally, but good for you if you can manage to stay high enough without that!

3-2 (25:16) - Nice fish dodging, heh.

3-3 (28:40) - I'm amazed that you didn't get hit for an ability loss here, nice fight.

You can do Condor Head + diagonal dive to get through more of those groups of statues, but I can see why you may not want to risk it (doing a straight-down dive instead would not be good).

3-4 (32:47) - don't need to shoot all of those Mike Tyson crabs (though they do deserve it anyway Tongue

). I usually just go down the left side and just shoot the bottom-left crab.

Really solid Fatty Puffer fight!

4-1 (39:42) - another nice Gigant Edge fight.

4-3 (45:25) - amazing Galboros fight.

4-4 (47:33) - I would've gone for it. Tongue

Actually I dunno... depends on how the run is going.

4-Boss - Epic fight! Wing for Goriath is not easy, and it still doesn't look easy, but you did this pretty much perfectly.

5-1 (53:19) - Ouch. Good thing you didn't land all the way at the bottom though.

5-2 (56:18) - Not a perfect fight (it is Moundo after all), but a nicely timed dive here to avoid getting hit.

5-3 (57:56) - Nice mashing. I can't mash quite that fast when I also have to adjust to the side (since that generally prevents mashing with both Up and 2).

5-Boss - unfortunate about getting hit, but good thing you finished the 1st half of the fight before he went into the background. 2nd half went better.

(1:05:21) - That Waddle Dee has skills.

(1:05:33) - Wow, that looked pretty close with the Wing star. Good thing you caught it in time.

6-1 (1:09:12) - I'm always afraid of that happening. Good thing it's not likely to totally lose your power in this area, though.

Nice final room of 6-1.

6-2 - Wow, this level has a lot of traps for Wing... went well considering what can go wrong.

6-3 - At the beginning, I think the conveyor actually boosts you more than the wind here, so it might be better to slide/run along in most spots. It's hard to say for sure when the conveyor slopes a lot though. (Also ouch. >_<)

6-4 - At the last room, it's fairly easy to pass the third eel quickly if you have Parasol. Less easy, but still doable, if you don't have Parasol (though I wouldn't advise it if you have Wing at that point). The underwater segment was smooth otherwise. Parasol certainly is nice for 6-4, so yeah, not having Wing here isn't too bad.

6-5 (1:22:48) - You almost grabbed that sphere!

6-Boss - Nice, exploded the rocket nice and early. First half could be a bit better, as you know, but the second half was solid.

7-1 (1:25:15) - Whoa... that is one way to do it!

(1:26:16) - Still really good at Galboros.

Last room is scary, so many places you wouldn't want to Condor Head from.

7-2 (1:31:27) - Now that was a pretty brave move.

7-3 - That first barrage of dives against Dubior was awesome.

(1:34:12) - o_O

Wing for Landia goes kind of like that for me sometimes... yeah. Well, can't beast the battles all the time.

Another Dimension (1:38:28) - Whoa, careful!

Again, it does look like Lor 2nd phase could go down before the invincible sphere, but only if it went perfectly. Have you done it before?

Dang, serious trolling at Magolor. Good recovery at final Magolor though.

Overall, I'd say really solid early game (worlds 1 and 2 especially), and pretty solid throughout most of the rest: some really cool and daring moves, some hesitations and safe strategies, and only the occasional costly hits. Of course, getting through 95% of the game while keeping Wing is already quite a feat in itself! In particular, I'm not very familiar with Wing for most of worlds 6 and 7, and it looks quite unforgiving.

For bosses, you destroyed practically all of the minibosses really quickly, so that's one of your strongest overall points for sure. The big boss fights in the first half were also really good (Goriath was probably my favorite fight!). It sounds like you had far better final fights in your 1:44, so if you also know how to do those, then yeah. Smiley

A bit more polishing, particularly in later worlds, would probably be the best way to lower your time (kind of like my situation in 100%). Your 1:44 is already a very solid time though. Looking forward to your future progress!

On that note, I never got around to more detailed comments on your [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6caA_W6SXsM]1:46 any%[/url], so here we go:

1-1 (1:46) - I'm curious, what's your HOME button strategy?  It looks like you pretty much keep pressing HOME until you see Wing once, let it roll and count the ability slots, press HOME again when you're almost at Wing again, then un-HOME and time the 1 press.  Did I get it right? :P

1-2 (3:55) - dodging the sword slash with a dive, that was awesome.

1-3 (4:34) - the first of many door dives. :)

1-Boss - yeah, I was wondering about the second half strat like you mentioned, but it does look like Wing damages fast enough that not getting inhaled could save time.  Also, nice job keeping up the dives for so long, heh.

Really clean World 1, and you only got hit like twice.

2-1 - flawless first room... and flawless second room!  Actually, this entire level was ridiculously smooth.  Great job beating Bonkers before the spins, too.

2-2 - also really good.  At the end, very nice job with getting past the flamethrowers.  I didn't think to take damage from a nearby enemy to pass through the fire.

2-3 - well, first substantial mistakes of the run, though it had to happen sometime.

2-Boss - interesting strategy to stay close enough to Mr. Dooter on the first half.  Never thought of shuttle looping those stars for extra damage!

Still going really strong, overall.

3-1 (23:08) - I usually land and jump again here just to be safe, personally, but good for you if you can manage to stay high enough without that!

3-2 (25:16) - Nice fish dodging, heh.

3-3 (28:40) - I'm amazed that you didn't get hit for an ability loss here, nice fight.

You can do Condor Head + diagonal dive to get through more of those groups of statues, but I can see why you may not want to risk it (doing a straight-down dive instead would not be good).

3-4 (32:47) - don't need to shoot all of those Mike Tyson crabs (though they do deserve it anyway :P ).  I usually just go down the left side and just shoot the bottom-left crab.

Really solid Fatty Puffer fight!

4-1 (39:42) - another nice Gigant Edge fight.

4-3 (45:25) - amazing Galboros fight.

4-4 (47:33) - I would've gone for it. :P  Actually I dunno... depends on how the run is going.

4-Boss - Epic fight!  Wing for Goriath is not easy, and it still doesn't look easy, but you did this pretty much perfectly.

5-1 (53:19) - Ouch.  Good thing you didn't land all the way at the bottom though.

5-2 (56:18) - Not a perfect fight (it is Moundo after all), but a nicely timed dive here to avoid getting hit.

5-3 (57:56) - Nice mashing.  I can't mash quite that fast when I also have to adjust to the side (since that generally prevents mashing with both Up and 2).

5-Boss - unfortunate about getting hit, but good thing you finished the 1st half of the fight before he went into the background.  2nd half went better.

(1:05:21) - That Waddle Dee has skills.

(1:05:33) - Wow, that looked pretty close with the Wing star.  Good thing you caught it in time.

6-1 (1:09:12) - I'm always afraid of that happening.  Good thing it's not likely to totally lose your power in this area, though.

Nice final room of 6-1.

6-2 - Wow, this level has a lot of traps for Wing... went well considering what can go wrong.

6-3 - At the beginning, I think the conveyor actually boosts you more than the wind here, so it might be better to slide/run along in most spots.  It's hard to say for sure when the conveyor slopes a lot though.  (Also ouch. >_<)

6-4 - At the last room, it's fairly easy to pass the third eel quickly if you have Parasol.  Less easy, but still doable, if you don't have Parasol (though I wouldn't advise it if you have Wing at that point).  The underwater segment was smooth otherwise.  Parasol certainly is nice for 6-4, so yeah, not having Wing here isn't too bad.

6-5 (1:22:48) - You almost grabbed that sphere!

6-Boss - Nice, exploded the rocket nice and early.  First half could be a bit better, as you know, but the second half was solid.

7-1 (1:25:15) - Whoa... that is one way to do it!

(1:26:16) - Still really good at Galboros.

Last room is scary, so many places you wouldn't want to Condor Head from.

7-2 (1:31:27) - Now that was a pretty brave move.

7-3 - That first barrage of dives against Dubior was awesome.

(1:34:12) - o_O

Wing for Landia goes kind of like that for me sometimes... yeah.  Well, can't beast the battles all the time.

Another Dimension (1:38:28) - Whoa, careful!

Again, it does look like Lor 2nd phase could go down before the invincible sphere, but only if it went perfectly.  Have you done it before?

Dang, serious trolling at Magolor.  Good recovery at final Magolor though.

Overall, I'd say really solid early game (worlds 1 and 2 especially), and pretty solid throughout most of the rest: some really cool and daring moves, some hesitations and safe strategies, and only the occasional costly hits.  Of course, getting through 95% of the game while keeping Wing is already quite a feat in itself!  In particular, I'm not very familiar with Wing for most of worlds 6 and 7, and it looks quite unforgiving.

For bosses, you destroyed practically all of the minibosses really quickly, so that's one of your strongest overall points for sure.  The big boss fights in the first half were also really good (Goriath was probably my favorite fight!).  It sounds like you had far better final fights in your 1:44, so if you also know how to do those, then yeah. :)

A bit more polishing, particularly in later worlds, would probably be the best way to lower your time (kind of like my situation in 100%).  Your 1:44 is already a very solid time though.  Looking forward to your future progress!

kirbymastah

2012-04-02 09:26:22 am

<(^_^)>

1-1 (1:46) - I'm curious, what's your HOME button strategy? It looks like you pretty much keep pressing HOME until you see Wing once, let it roll and count the ability slots, press HOME again when you're almost at Wing again, then un-HOME and time the 1 press. Did I get it right?

For the most part, yeah. I typically give myself two tries before I reset; maybe I'm lucky but I typically get it about 40% of the time, which is pretty high. But yeah, I keep spamming HOME until I see Wing; if I land on Wing, excellent! If not, I try to remember the few abilities that came right before wing. Then I roughly count about 20 abilities ahead (roughly, because it's so freaking hard to seriously count), HOME again, and try to remember what came before wing and see how many slots ahead wing comes, then (try to) time it. I don't know if HOME abuse would be accepted on SDA (but if it is, then of course it would count towards RTA), but if it wasn't, I'd still do the same; it'd just be ten times more annoying and I'd have about ten times more resets.

You can do Condor Head + diagonal dive to get through more of those groups of statues, but I can see why you may not want to risk it (doing a straight-down dive instead would not be good).

Yeah I'm VERY scared of this section; I can try to shave off an extra second or two with some more practice, but for the most part, I'm definitely going to take this a little more carefully, especially since 3-3 is overall very hellish for saving Wing.

3-4 (32:47) - don't need to shoot all of those Mike Tyson crabs (though they do deserve it anyway ). I usually just go down the left side and just shoot the bottom-left crab.

Haha, now that I watched that part again, that was unnecessary overkill. I guess I was a bit paranoid about the right crab getting too close to the left, so I took it safe again; plus I wanted to get my revenge on them Angry

4-4 (47:33) - I would've gone for it. Actually I dunno... depends on how the run is going.

I should've gone for it. It was just a lack of world 4 experience that held me back.

4-Boss - Epic fight! Wing for Goriath is not easy, and it still doesn't look easy, but you did this pretty much perfectly.

Goriath is definitely one of the funnest, flashiest fights overall, especially with Wing. I'm very happy with how this fight turned out in the youtube run.

5-1 (53:19) - Ouch. Good thing you didn't land all the way at the bottom though.

I had a herpderp moment about where to fly to dodge lol

(1:05:21) - That Waddle Dee has skills.

Dang, you're right Shocked

Well... not as much skills as that ninja that sniped me in 5-2 in my 100% test run.

6-3 - At the beginning, I think the conveyor actually boosts you more than the wind here, so it might be better to slide/run along in most spots. It's hard to say for sure when the conveyor slopes a lot though. (Also ouch. >_<)

Yeah, I should've realized that running is at least as fast as condor-heading (except maybe against an upward slope, like you said). A lot safer too; I did this in my recent 1:44 run and it certainly wasn't as scary.

6-5 (1:22:48) - You almost grabbed that sphere!

Roll Eyes

6-Boss - Nice, exploded the rocket nice and early. First half could be a bit better, as you know, but the second half was solid.

Yeah first half could definitely be a few seconds faster, but we both know how hard it is to get a perfect Metal General 1st phase <_<

Last room is scary, so many places you wouldn't want to Condor Head from.

Hmmm there are definitely more spots I can condor head from, and with more practice I can definitely take more risks.

Again, it does look like Lor 2nd phase could go down before the invincible sphere, but only if it went perfectly. Have you done it before?

I've done it... once. And the only reason I got it is because I got incredibly lucky. Basically I dived, hit the Lor, and a few frames after I hit the Lor, one of its red energy balls hit me, cancelling the endlag so I was able to dive instantly again. If there's a consistent way to do this, then it would definitely shave off a bit of time.

Yeah, I'd definitely agree that world 6-7 can especially use more polishing and practice; it's evident that I wasn't as comfortable with them, even in my 1:44. Thanks for the comments though! Wing is definitely a really fun ability (at least for me), so despite how simplistic any% is, it's pretty fun (and stressful :P).

I'll try to get a video of much better final fights (good practice for me too), but I ideally finish Landia 1st phase just before he swings his tail at the very least, Magolor 2nd phase before his LAZER, Magolor Soul 1st phase before he goes into the background, and 2nd phase a bit after his sword swings.

[i]1-1 (1:46) - I'm curious, what's your HOME button strategy?  It looks like you pretty much keep pressing HOME until you see Wing once, let it roll and count the ability slots, press HOME again when you're almost at Wing again, then un-HOME and time the 1 press.  Did I get it right? [/i]

For the most part, yeah. I typically give myself two tries before I reset; maybe I'm lucky but I typically get it about 40% of the time, which is pretty high. But yeah, I keep spamming HOME until I see Wing; if I land on Wing, excellent! If not, I try to remember the few abilities that came right before wing. Then I roughly count about 20 abilities ahead (roughly, because it's so freaking hard to seriously count), HOME again, and try to remember what came before wing and see how many slots ahead wing comes, then (try to) time it. I don't know if HOME abuse would be accepted on SDA (but if it is, then of course it would count towards RTA), but if it wasn't, I'd still do the same; it'd just be ten times more annoying and I'd have about ten times more resets.

[i]You can do Condor Head + diagonal dive to get through more of those groups of statues, but I can see why you may not want to risk it (doing a straight-down dive instead would not be good).[/i]

Yeah I'm VERY scared of this section; I can try to shave off an extra second or two with some more practice, but for the most part, I'm definitely going to take this a little more carefully, especially since 3-3 is overall very hellish for saving Wing.

[i]3-4 (32:47) - don't need to shoot all of those Mike Tyson crabs (though they do deserve it anyway  ).  I usually just go down the left side and just shoot the bottom-left crab.[/i]

Haha, now that I watched that part again, that was unnecessary overkill. I guess I was a bit paranoid about the right crab getting too close to the left, so I took it safe again; plus I wanted to get my revenge on them >:(

[i]4-4 (47:33) - I would've gone for it.   Actually I dunno... depends on how the run is going.[/i]

I should've gone for it. It was just a lack of world 4 experience that held me back.

[i]4-Boss - Epic fight!  Wing for Goriath is not easy, and it still doesn't look easy, but you did this pretty much perfectly.[/i]

Goriath is definitely one of the funnest, flashiest fights overall, especially with Wing. I'm very happy with how this fight turned out in the youtube run.

[i]5-1 (53:19) - Ouch.  Good thing you didn't land all the way at the bottom though.[/i]

I had a herpderp moment about where to fly to dodge lol

[i](1:05:21) - That Waddle Dee has skills.[/i]

Dang, you're right :o Well... not as much skills as that ninja that sniped me in 5-2 in my 100% test run.

[i]6-3 - At the beginning, I think the conveyor actually boosts you more than the wind here, so it might be better to slide/run along in most spots.  It's hard to say for sure when the conveyor slopes a lot though.  (Also ouch. >_<)[/i]

Yeah, I should've realized that running is at least as fast as condor-heading (except maybe against an upward slope, like you said). A lot safer too; I did this in my recent 1:44 run and it certainly wasn't as scary.

[i]6-5 (1:22:48) - You almost grabbed that sphere![/i]

::)

[i]6-Boss - Nice, exploded the rocket nice and early.  First half could be a bit better, as you know, but the second half was solid.[/i]

Yeah first half could definitely be a few seconds faster, but we both know how hard it is to get a perfect Metal General 1st phase <_<

[i]Last room is scary, so many places you wouldn't want to Condor Head from.[/i]

Hmmm there are definitely more spots I can condor head from, and with more practice I can definitely take more risks.

[i]Again, it does look like Lor 2nd phase could go down before the invincible sphere, but only if it went perfectly.  Have you done it before?[/i]

I've done it... once. And the only reason I got it is because I got incredibly lucky. Basically I dived, hit the Lor, and a few frames after I hit the Lor, one of its red energy balls hit me, cancelling the endlag so I was able to dive instantly again. If there's a consistent way to do this, then it would definitely shave off a bit of time.

Yeah, I'd definitely agree that world 6-7 can especially use more polishing and practice; it's evident that I wasn't as comfortable with them, even in my 1:44. Thanks for the comments though! Wing is definitely a really fun ability (at least for me), so despite how simplistic any% is, it's pretty fun (and stressful :P).

I'll try to get a video of much better final fights (good practice for me too), but I ideally finish Landia 1st phase just before he swings his tail at the very least, Magolor 2nd phase before his LAZER, Magolor Soul 1st phase before he goes into the background, and 2nd phase a bit after his sword swings.

kirbymastah

2012-05-12 09:24:34 pm

<(^_^)>

I'M BACK. And I have an entire week free to play Kirby games! I've been practicing World 6 and 7, any%, a ton, so I'll be trying to beat my record (and get a recording of it, even with crappy quality)!

Also working on KSSU so look forward to that!

kirbymastah

2012-05-18 06:57:54 pm

<(^_^)>

Oh man, I couldn't get a finished run in time, and I won't be able to record anything for the entire summer <_< Oh well, at the very least, I have this:

for boss strats in both any% and 100%

yoshifan

2012-05-20 12:08:04 am

Aww, oh well. Sad

Looking forward to the next time you have access to recording!

That boss strategies video should be a good reference for us though. Your strategies look quite polished and well thought out, especially with stuff like the intentional damage (I think?) on Goriath and Metal General.

Lately I've been playing other games like F-Zero GX, but I do plan on coming back to the 100% run in the near future. There's still plenty of things to test for sure, such as ability mixing in more places besides 1-1 and 7-2.

kirbymastah

2012-05-20 07:45:30 am

<(^_^)>

yeah the damage on goriath and metal general was intentional. But you only want to take damage against metal general if he's going to swing his sword instead of walking around, so bump into him to tank through his sword (getting hit by his sword makes you lose wing, sooo.....)

kirbymastah

2012-05-25 12:17:02 pm

<(^_^)>

I lied. I do have recording and a tv at home right now (but for a week... then I'm not sure what's going to happen when I leave the state)

Main Mode, Sword Challenge Platinum Speed Run:

Never... again... @_@

kirbymastah

2012-05-27 09:59:22 am

<(^_^)>

Water

Whip

Both fun challenges. Water is definitely the easiest challenge room for me, as it's not close to as technical as sword/wing/bomb and doesn't require as much accuracy as wing/whip/hijump. Whip was also not too bad once I got my strats down more consistently.

kirbymastah

2012-05-28 09:52:16 am

<(^_^)>

ok news flash. yoshifan, I tried passing the two spike balls without invincible candy in level 3-4, and you can barely inch through by the corners. Heck, it's actually pretty easy once you know how to do it, so it definitely should be used for any%, as getting the invincible candy is slower by about 5 seconds (100% should probably still get it to make the energy sphere room manageable and it's probably faster too).

Also, for the end of level 7-1, I compared my 100% test run's snow bowl route vs. my any% run's wing route, and wing beats snow bowl by far, thanks to the initial animations for getting and starting snow bowl, and I even have a faster wing route for that room anyways. So any%, still wing from 1-1 to end.