Kirby's Return to Dreamland Speedrunning

2012-12-08 02:42:16 pm

DK + Mario Kart 8 = <3

Quote from kirbymastah:

You lose whatever ability you have when entering a dimensional rift, so mixing for wing isn't worth it.

I've never tried carrying an ability into a dimensional rift before, but I'd imagine it doesn't work either, because you can't carry the true arena's maximum tomato box into that same kind of warp that warps you to the later fights. I'll test it out though.

Chances are, we'll spend some time learning the route (and I need to finish routing worlds 4-7...). My roommate and I will only have time during the next semester (but he has a very chill semester so it'll work out). I don't know if he's still wililng to do this, or if he's having fun yet, but we're trying it out. If it turns into something serious, we'll see if we can get a run out by the end of the academic year.

But there are many, many chances of major timesavers for 100% co-op. In world 1 alone, we saved 20 seconds, and that's with only one hour of practicing and a huge mistake costing 10 seconds, and this is world 1 where the 100% route remains mostly unchanged vs. 100% solo. Tons more can be saved later on (aka keep tornado in 3-2 without having to switch to spear, etc), and a random ball-in-the-park estimate would be about 4-5 minutes saved over 100% solo.

ah yes i remember you lose the ability there

and it sounds good

good luck for this

[quote="kirbymastah"]You lose whatever ability you have when entering a dimensional rift, so mixing for wing isn't worth it.

I've never tried carrying an ability into a dimensional rift before, but I'd imagine it doesn't work either, because you can't carry the true arena's maximum tomato box into that same kind of warp that warps you to the later fights. I'll test it out though.

Chances are, we'll spend some time learning the route (and I need to finish routing worlds 4-7...). My roommate and I will only have time during the next semester (but he has a very chill semester so it'll work out). I don't know if he's still wililng to do this, or if he's having fun yet, but we're trying it out. If it turns into something serious, we'll see if we can get a run out by the end of the academic year.

But there are many, many chances of major timesavers for 100% co-op. In world 1 alone, we saved 20 seconds, and that's with only one hour of practicing and a huge mistake costing 10 seconds, and this is world 1 where the 100% route remains mostly unchanged vs. 100% solo. Tons more can be saved later on (aka keep tornado in 3-2 without having to switch to spear, etc), and a random ball-in-the-park estimate would be about 4-5 minutes saved over 100% solo.[/quote]

ah yes i remember you lose the ability there

and it sounds good

good luck for this

kirbymastah

2012-12-09 11:15:11 am

<(^_^)>

Just notes for co-op, in case people are too lazy to check the knowledge base:

2-player co-op is enough. Any more players is extraneous and only serves to slow down the speedrun.

The general gist of co-op is that player 1 is the moving force, because the camera follows player 1. Thus P1 should have the mobile ability as much as possible. Player 2 serves the role of switching in and out, carrying keys and collecting out-of-the-way energy spheres, and doing puzzles so that P1 does not have to ditch kirby's current mobile ability.

In terms of combat, in almost all cases, it is best for player 1 to fight the boss solo. The meaning behind this is, the more players there are, the less damage everyone does to bosses. Furthermore, player 1's best strats usually hit the boss at every possible moment, meaning there are almost no non-invincibility frames for the second player to squeeze in hits in between. Thus, against almost all bosses and minibosses, player 2 leaves the game.

This is why 3 or 4-player co-op is basically useless. More players hinder bosses and minibosses, and there is never a reason to have more than one other person acting the role of "carrier" or "collector" as there is never an instance in the game where the player needs to be at more than two places at once (aka more than two energy spheres in the same screen, etc)

This is also why any% co-op is really stupid, because the only role player 2 would serve is to carry the keys. That's it. That would not save even over a minute over solo any%, because Player 1 should ideally be roflstomping the entire game with wing (to the point that player 2 is actually absolutely useless).

Anyways, so yeah, I'm still working on routing 2-player 100% co-op with my roommate. Winter break is coming up, so we won't be able to practice together for a while until school starts again next semester. This is also our last year together, so we'll probably submit the best attempt we get by the end of spring 2013.

Just notes for co-op, in case people are too lazy to check the knowledge base:

2-player co-op is enough. Any more players is extraneous and only serves to slow down the speedrun.

The general gist of co-op is that player 1 is the moving force, because the camera follows player 1. Thus P1 should have the mobile ability as much as possible. Player 2 serves the role of switching in and out, carrying keys and collecting out-of-the-way energy spheres, and doing puzzles so that P1 does not have to ditch kirby's current mobile ability.

In terms of combat, in almost all cases, it is best for player 1 to fight the boss solo. The meaning behind this is, the more players there are, the less damage everyone does to bosses. Furthermore, player 1's best strats usually hit the boss at every possible moment, meaning there are almost no non-invincibility frames for the second player to squeeze in hits in between. Thus, against almost all bosses and minibosses, player 2 leaves the game.

This is why 3 or 4-player co-op is basically useless. More players hinder bosses and minibosses, and there is never a reason to have more than one other person acting the role of "carrier" or "collector" as there is never an instance in the game where the player needs to be at more than two places at once (aka more than two energy spheres in the same screen, etc)

This is also why any% co-op is really stupid, because the only role player 2 would serve is to carry the keys. That's it. That would not save even over a minute over solo any%, because Player 1 should ideally be roflstomping the entire game with wing (to the point that player 2 is actually absolutely useless).

Anyways, so yeah, I'm still working on routing 2-player 100% co-op with my roommate. Winter break is coming up, so we won't be able to practice together for a while until school starts again next semester. This is also our last year together, so we'll probably submit the best attempt we get by the end of spring 2013.

MUGG

2012-12-23 11:48:05 am

TASer

星のカービィ Wii Any% RTA 1:38:17 (Main Mode)

by JetToastSR | Kuropan | Blackbread
http://krpn.digi2.jp/

Ecko65

2012-12-23 01:00:16 pm

DK + Mario Kart 8 = <3

Quote from MUGG:

星のカービィ Wii Any% RTA 1:38:17 (Main Mode)

by JetToastSR | Kuropan | Blackbread
http://krpn.digi2.jp/

is this world record?

it looks like kirbymastah get some competition Smiley

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2012-12-23 02:32:23 pm

kirbymastah: 2012-12-23 02:32:01 pm

kirbymastah: 2012-12-23 02:31:42 pm

kirbymastah: 2012-12-23 02:24:06 pm

kirbymastah: 2012-12-23 02:19:17 pm

kirbymastah: 2012-12-23 02:19:07 pm

2012-12-23 02:18:58 pm

<(^_^)>

I'm watching it right now to see if there are any strats he uses that I don't. As far as I know, it'd be the WR Tongue

I know that my run had at least 2 minutes of mistakes. I'm not sure if there are time differences due to japanese/english text, but if there is, it shouldn't amount to more than a few seconds faster.

As far as I can tell, my strats are better than his, but his run is better optimized (aka fewer mistakes), which leads to a better time. He doesn't slide at all short-distances and he doesn't jump up ladders (he flies up, which is noticeably slower) But there are a few fights that he definitely has stronger than me (main ones being, finishing Moundo before it spins), which i need to learn. Surprisingly, he uses the wing-swim glitch.

Looks like I know what I'm doing after my winter break is over Tongue

EDIT: Holy crap he switches to Ninja for the final bosses. I compared it with my "perfect" wing run with the last bosses, and against magolor's soul, ninja is about 7-8 seconds faster. Against magolor was difficult to time, because the runner missed a monster flame, but I think it's faster too. So it's faster to get Ninja for Landia and on. This easily makes up for the seconds that Wing saves over Ninja in navigating the boss lobbies.

I'm watching it right now to see if there are any strats he uses that I don't. As far as I know, it'd be the WR :P I know that my run had at least 2 minutes of mistakes. I'm not sure if there are time differences due to japanese/english text, but if there is, it shouldn't amount to more than a few seconds faster.

As far as I can tell, my strats are better than his, but his run is better optimized (aka fewer mistakes), which leads to a better time. He doesn't slide at all short-distances and he doesn't jump up ladders (he flies up, which is noticeably slower) But there are a few fights that he definitely has stronger than me (main ones being, finishing Moundo before it spins), which i need to learn. Surprisingly, he uses the wing-swim glitch.

Looks like I know what I'm doing after my winter break is over :P

EDIT: Holy crap he switches to Ninja for the final bosses. I compared it with my "perfect" wing run with the last bosses, and against magolor's soul, ninja is about 7-8 seconds faster. Against magolor was difficult to time, because the runner missed a monster flame, but I think it's faster too. So it's faster to get Ninja for Landia and on. This easily makes up for the seconds that Wing saves over Ninja in navigating the boss lobbies.

kirbymastah

2013-03-14 12:52:56 pm

<(^_^)>

I think I'm mostly done with my hiatus with krtdl, and thus I'll be back on working on this game seriously, with 100%. I'm currently practicing 100% levels, and seeing if the route can be improved or not. I really don't want my 2:47:07 run to continue being WR since it sucks <_<

Also testing out if there are any places to mix for wing, as much as I hate to do that. Level 4-1 seems to be a strong candidate to mix for wing, with the 3 poppy bros jr, and it'll probably save time in the rest of level 4-1, even if I have to ditch it for fire early in 4-2.

Also, I don't think co-op will really be happening. We haven't put any work in past world 3, I don't even have a route up past world 4, and getting a decent run out in 2 months before my roommate and I leave will basically be impossible.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2014-04-22 08:53:12 am

2014-04-22 08:50:43 am

<(^_^)>

Might as well bump this...

I started getting back into ILs for platinum medal challenge rooms, and I already have three runs that I'm willing to submit to SDA (I'm hoping to get one more done, since I can't record anymore starting about a week from now, then submit four runs total). Eventually I'll have submitted 14 total ILs for KRtDL (7 challenge rooms in main mode, 7 in extra mode).

Sword (Main Mode):

Water (Main Mode):

Hi-Jump (Main Mode):

There's just one thing that concerns me. SDA is a speedrunning website, and I aim for score; aiming for score is basically going as fast as possible while doing all the requirements of platinum medal (aka get every coin and defeat every enemy) which is much more impressive than just doing bland speedruns. Assuming a run accomplishes all the requirements, the only way to improve score is to improve the time (I believe every 10 points is 0.2 seconds). This shouldn't be a problem for any of the KRtDL challenge rooms, since I'm confident that it's impossible to platinum-medal any challenge room while skipping some enemies/coins.

However, I believe one of the smash challenge rooms in Dream Collection, it's actually possible to do so; skipping a few enemies, then go so ridiculously fast that the time bonus makes up for not killing all enemies. I believe this is only slightly faster (not that much significantly). I'm not sure what SDA's stance on this would be? Should score be optimized, or just pure speed? I'm leaning towards the former, since IMO it's visually more impressive to aim for score (and it is still a speedrun regardless).

Might as well bump this...

I started getting back into ILs for platinum medal challenge rooms, and I already have three runs that I'm willing to submit to SDA (I'm hoping to get one more done, since I can't record anymore starting about a week from now, then submit four runs total). Eventually I'll have submitted 14 total ILs for KRtDL (7 challenge rooms in main mode, 7 in extra mode).

Sword (Main Mode):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYGHqjE-rbg

Water (Main Mode):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrG5phnNrao

Hi-Jump (Main Mode):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBeaTJAD61Q

There's just one thing that concerns me. SDA is a speedrunning website, and I aim for score; aiming for score is basically going as fast as possible while doing all the requirements of platinum medal (aka get every coin and defeat every enemy) which is much more impressive than just doing bland speedruns. Assuming a run accomplishes all the requirements, the only way to improve score is to improve the time (I believe every 10 points is 0.2 seconds). This shouldn't be a problem for any of the KRtDL challenge rooms, since I'm confident that it's impossible to platinum-medal any challenge room while skipping some enemies/coins.

However, I believe one of the smash challenge rooms in Dream Collection, it's actually possible to do so; skipping a few enemies, then go so ridiculously fast that the time bonus makes up for not killing all enemies. I believe this is only slightly faster (not that much significantly). I'm not sure what SDA's stance on this would be? Should score be optimized, or just pure speed? I'm leaning towards the former, since IMO it's visually  more impressive to aim for score (and it is still a speedrun regardless).

Floogal

2014-04-23 10:59:15 am

See, the issue is that I don't think "fastest platinum medal" is a valid category. Either you're going for maximum score, or fastest time (i.e. score doesn't matter, don't care about medal type), both of which I believe should be valid categories for SDA. The fact that maximum score requires maximum speed white still completing all objectives 100% helps keep it competitive. So it shouldn't be an issue at all.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you: are you saying that it's possible for to get a higher score on one of the Dream Collection courses by skipping a few enemies? In which case, absolutely, skip the enemies if it gets a higher score.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2014-04-23 02:30:25 pm

kirbymastah: 2014-04-23 02:29:47 pm

kirbymastah: 2014-04-23 02:13:59 pm

kirbymastah: 2014-04-23 12:32:38 pm

2014-04-23 12:32:29 pm

<(^_^)>

Quote from Floogal:

Unless I'm misunderstanding you: are you saying that it's possible for to get a higher score on one of the Dream Collection courses by skipping a few enemies? In which case, absolutely, skip the enemies if it gets a higher score.

You miss out on score; it's just barely possible to go so fast that the speed bonus makes up for skipping enemies and not getting the +1000 enemies defeat bonus (or w/e the number is), in order to meet platinum. But yeah, max score would make sense; the focus is primarily speed anyways.

EDIT: Anyways, I'm impatient Tongue

I submitted the three ILs since I seriously doubt I'll be able to get anymore done before i have to move out (and thus be unable to record anymore). I put in a short explanation that the score attacks are still speedruns, and should have a place on the website IMO. Now go apply for verification everyone! Tongue