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My feelings on The Demon Rush
Yes, I still run games.  I've been attempting a Contra III improvement for the last couple of months, but I'm a little tired of just running one game at the moment.  Anyways, I'm curious if anyone other than stanski plays this game, let alone cares about it.

You might curious why I would run a crappy portable version of a console game, except this game is actually different from the Justice League Heroes game on PS2 and XBOX. 

It's a beat 'em up where you play the game's title character and run around beating up hapless enemies (along with some that aren't so hapless).  Or that's what you're supposed to do.  The screen scrolling in this game is so buggy you can skip at least a third of the battles you're supposed to fight by hitting off-screen enemies, using an assist, using speed force, or performing this weird "wiggle" bug.

BTW, I'm going to run this game on Justice mode (the hardest difficulty) because I have some standards Tongue

Now seeing that this is a run by me, of course I have done a retarded amount of research (with the help of stanski).

Turnaround infinite:  The programmers wanted you to be able to dodge attacks while you were comboing enemies, so they let you cancel attacks by turning around.  However, they didn't have the foresight to determine that this would create a super easy infinite.

The infinite: press B three times, press back, then immediately press forward, repeat.

The infinite isn't really that broken because a lot of enemies have uninterruptible attacks.

Edge skipping:  This is how most of the forced battles are skipped.  To perform this, you simply travel along the edge of your current screen.  Since a lot of the triggers are in the center of the screen, you're traveling outside the triggers. This is most prominent in Central city 1, 2, and Metropolis 1.

Assisted skipping:  This involves using an assist to wipe out a screen of enemies, then placing yourself at the very edge of the screen to trick the game into thinking you've killed all of the enemies.

"Wiggle" skipping:  I'm not really sure how this one works.  There are certain screens you can run back and forth in, and you'll somehow be able to skip a forced battle.  This only works with certain forced battles (like the second to last one in Metropolis 1), and I have no idea what determines when you can do it.

A couple of notes about the game:

-Most enemies will be killed using the infinite.  I will use the whirlwind attack against closely clustered groups of two or more.

-Central City is really easy.  Most of the battles can be skipped anyways.

-Gorilla Grodd can be killed before he uses any of his time-wasting attacks. It involves beating Grodd stupid with the infinite while he beats his chest.  I'll be sure to do this in my run since it saves at least 10 seconds.

-Gotham City 1 and 2 can be quite annoying.  There are skips here and there, but many of them are inconsistent and need more research (especially skipping the final battle in Gotham City 2).

-Beating Killer Frost involves conserving most of your flash meter until she summons the large icicles (when she gets down to half life or less), then smashing her with the infinite.

-Themyscira 1 isn't too bad.  A lot of the battles in the middle can be skipped.  Themyscira 2, on the other hand, is painful.  Somewhere along the lines of dropped soap painful.  None of the battles can be skipped, and much of the fighting is in cramped areas without room to manuever.  The designers could have made Themyscira 2 as the last stage in the game because it is easily the hardest stage in the game.

-Circe can be killed before she summons her 4 guards.  This is ridiculously hard and requires a stupid amount of luck, but I need to do this, or else I lose at least a minute.

-Not much to say about the Sunken City.  It's not very hard.  The first level has a couple of skips, the second one has almost none, IIRC.

-The only hard part about Zoom is making sure I get his health down quickly in the second section.  My only strategy so far is to make sure I'm lined up directly behind him, then run right and punch.  I have been able to punch him a couple of times in a row, but nothing very consistent.  The actual battle is a joke, you can kill him in less than 30 seconds.

-Metropolis 1 is the most poorly designed stage ever, which means it's a dream for a speedrunner :P.  You only have to fight two forced battles.  Metropolis 2 is fairly tough, having a lot of enemies with high endurance, but nowhere near as tough as Themyscira 2.

-Honestly, I don't think the programmers even considered the infinite when they made Brainiac.

I will put up .vbm files on filefront later.
Thread title:  
Edit history:
stanski: 2007-03-14 11:07:07 pm
wise fwom yo gwave
Quote:
Wall of text


I might get done reading that in a year and then comment, but just wanted to say that everyone should play this game. It is awesome. And mike and I have made great plans so far for the boss fights especially.

Mike, one note, I was watching the bayou billy TAS and he wiggle skips in that game at certain points. Looks to me like a somewhat common programming error.

Oh, and you forgot there was that one assist-skip in 3-2. I suppose that really can't count for much of a skip though.
My feelings on The Demon Rush
http://hosted.filefront.com/mikwuyma/

Everything should be up there.  Some of the runs are quite bad (2-2 in particular), but these are just test runs.  BTW, don't say dumb stuff like "you missed a punch", I'm not blind.  Criticize my strategy or method.
Edit history:
stanski: 2007-03-26 08:25:04 pm
wise fwom yo gwave
Mike, maybe if I bump this, you'll get up to 100 views :P?
Edit history:
trihex: 2007-03-26 08:56:38 pm
Yoshi's eggs are at my mercy!
Is this some sort of hip trend now? Sir_VG doing that GBA Avatar game, and you doing Justice League. Is it a competition to do the lamest game possible? (I kid, I look forward to this one, it seems promising!)

Y'all may make me do some research on Barbie's Horse Adventure (PS2) to see if it's possible to endure it long enough to speedrun it.

EDIT: Oh, right, verifiers (I'd never get any) ... never mind. Sad
lol. great. saying the game he's running is lame, then comparing him to sir_vg. i would watch your back if i were you. Smiley
My feelings on The Demon Rush
TriHex, you do want your Crash 3 run posted, don't you? Wink
Edit history:
stanski: 2007-03-26 10:32:03 pm
wise fwom yo gwave
This game actually is pretty sweet. I would call it nearly designed for speedrunning, except boss randomness sucks.

I won't be surprised to never see trihex post again after that last post.

Oh, and at least he's not running DJ Boy anymore Tongue
Yoshi's eggs are at my mercy!
Quote:
This game actually is pretty sweet. I would call it nearly designed for speedrunning, except boss randomness sucks.

I won't be surprised to never see trihex post again after that last post.

Oh, and at least he's not running DJ Boy anymore Tongue


I was speedrunning a game called "DJ Boy" at one point?
wise fwom yo gwave
Me and Mike were. Its the best game ever. Be sure to download the japanese rom.
one-armed bandit
yes, go for it mike!!

and if any beat 'em up is suited for speedrunning, it's this one.
bläää
don´t forget TMNT II... Okey. Maybe not.

When I hear mike speaking good about any game in the universe I have to check up what game it is... The same for this one.

Sounds like a good game to speedrun (except for random boss fights off course)
Let's fight to computer!
Quote:
Themyscira 2, on the other hand, is painful.  Somewhere along the lines of dropped soap painful.


No shit. I am now convinced that this run is actually a cruel prank to trick the rest of us into playing this game. (Shame on you, Mike.)
If you can't speedrun a game with The Flash in it, there's something seriously wrong with you.
wise fwom yo gwave
Its done!

Sub-28!

Oh wait, I didn't do this one... GO GO GO MIKE UPLOADING, THIS RUN TAKES PRIORITY OVER EVERYTHING ELSE SUBMITTED!
hahah. nah.

congrats on the time though.
wise fwom yo gwave
ZOMG NATE! WHY IS THIS RUN NOT UPLOADED YET? MIKE UYAMA, WILL YOU PLEASE HAVE MY BABIES?

/me stops making fun of the crash 3 people... for now
Yes, a cucco riding the ground.
If only all runs were made like this... <_<

Looking forward to it.
My feelings on The Demon Rush
Everyone knows the Crash 3 people won't look in this thread.  Even if they did, the humor would soar right over their heads.

Anyways, Stanski is correct, I have finished a run Smiley
Existence as you know it is over
Quote:
Everyone knows the Crash 3 people won't look in this thread.  Even if they did, the humor would soar right over their heads.


Quote:
how is the run looking? can we expect it by 2009 or even 2010?

but seriously, is the verification process almost over? how long do they usually take?

this is not spam by the way.


Whoa, the timing is freaky.
Edit history:
slowbro: 2007-03-29 02:21:53 am
... looking at the topic title, and stanski's sig ...

So is this game called JLH: The Flash or JTH: The Flash?!

edit: sig fixed apparently, I'd delete this post except that it led to a much funnier one :worship:
Let's fight to computer!
It's actually JFH: The League; the game's about competitive indecent exposure.
lol.

that took me a second.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Hey Mike,

I just wanted to say what an honor it is that you speedran our game. Smiley I directed the GBA Flash game. One of our programmers found your speedrun yesterday and the whole company loved it. Sorry about the bugs - there's only so much you can pull off when developing a game start to finish in 5 months. To address a few points:

- We never learned the infite combo, but it definitely does seem effective. We'd planned to do a slow seek during flash speed and a dash back to avoid enemies (ala Castlevania) but just didn't have the time to get those in.

- The reason some empty screenlocks occur is because an enemy strays away before you get there. You get locked because of the enemy, but since he's left the game gives him a few seconds to return, after which point it kills the lock. Coulda been handled better but again, the whole short dev time thing.

- Screenlocks are the same dimensions as the screen and stamped all over the levels. Because we wanted to stick the locks in a way that showed off foregrounds or backgrounds (not just flat floor), there are plenty of little invisible alleys to squeeze through on the edges (as you did in the run).

- Final Zoom boss battle was thrown together quickly, unfortunately. I think the other boss battles hold up pretty well but that one never fully came together.

- Another way you probably exploited a lot of areas is many of the enemies have kind of long, involved entrances. If you're able to trigger an enemy without getting stuck in a lock, then pull the screen away from the enemy so he culls, he'll vanish and you'll never have to fight him.

If you guys ever do another run on the game, you should it with with a few cheats on. Smiley The size cheats don't affect the gameplay at all (since collision stays the same) but it makes the game pretty damn funny when a 2-foot Flash is attacking a 20-foot Grodd (or vice versa).

Anyway, thanks again for playing our game and giving it some props. It totally got lost in the shuffle of the DS and console games, but the reviewers were pretty nice to it. Considering you guys know it pretty intimately, what would you have changed or improved in the game, aside from bug fixes? If we ever did another Flash game, what should we keep in mind?

- Adam
Edit history:
mikwuyma: 2007-04-26 01:11:13 am
My feelings on The Demon Rush
Hi Adam, you're especially welcome to the forum since you actually used the search feature to find a topic on this game. Wink

I was actually going to post this run on the gamefaqs forum because I knew you posted there, but by the time I finished the run, the board was deserted.

I think this is the first time a developer actually posted on our forums about a game of theirs we ran.  Hope this isn't the last time. Smiley

Quote:
One of our programmers found your speedrun yesterday and the whole company loved it. Sorry about the bugs - there's only so much you can pull off when developing a game start to finish in 5 months. To address a few points:


Awesome!  I figured the game was buggy due to limited development time -- I noticed "the making of the flash" extra said the development time was nine months start to finish.  But five months???

Anyways, don't apologize for the bugs, they're what made the game fun to speedrun.  Also, thanks for not taking the "GLITCHES?!?!?!?!!  THEY GO AGAINST ALL OF OUR INTENTIONS!!!!" route.

Quote:
- We never learned the infite combo, but it definitely does seem effective. We'd planned to do a slow seek during flash speed and a dash back to avoid enemies (ala Castlevania) but just didn't have the time to get those in.


I figured you never learned about the infinite combo during development time, or else it wouldn't be in the game.  However, I didn't know you wanted to include a backdash for dodging.  That was one of the things I thought was lacking when I first played the game.  I always assumed you let hitting back cancel your punch animation so you could dodge attacks, is this true?

Quote:
- The reason some empty screenlocks occur is because an enemy strays away before you get there. You get locked because of the enemy, but since he's left the game gives him a few seconds to return, after which point it kills the lock. Coulda been handled better but again, the whole short dev time thing.


Thanks, this explains a lot of randomness, and why I could randomly skip things at times, while other times I would be stuck for about 10 seconds.

Quote:
Anyway, thanks again for playing our game and giving it some props. It totally got lost in the shuffle of the DS and console games, but the reviewers were pretty nice to it. Considering you guys know it pretty intimately, what would you have changed or improved in the game, aside from bug fixes? If we ever did another Flash game, what should we keep in mind?


Yeah I figured my run would get about five downloads, good thing one of them was important Tongue  I'm sure I'll have more suggestions later, but one thing that stuck out was a lack of a grab or throw move.  Maybe the Flash can grab an enemy, spin him around at super speed, then throw him across the screen.

Oh almost forgot, try to make the collision detection on punches less finicky.  I know seeking makes up for most of the collision detection problems, but when you're only slightly above/below enemy, it's very annoying to whiff your punches.

Again, thanks for posting on our forum for more insight about this game.  Is Wayforward developing anything right now?