Journey to silius

2014-03-16 06:12:04 pm

Goatragon!

And it just keeps getting more difficult...
http://www.twitch.tv/zakkydraggy/c/3900080

This is only an emulator test movie, but this should be possible on console and should be a quicker way to clear the gauntlet at the end of Stage 3. It worked out to be about 5s faster than the strategy I used in my 11:13 run.

ktwo

2014-03-17 03:16:30 pm

I was always convinced there were faster strats to get through that section in stage 3. Nice to see you finding a way to do it. Well done!

Are you gonna try to go all out in your attempts and include this, the ship glitch and the route from your latest pb? Or do you think it would be possible to go for more consistent (and slower) solutions in some areas in order to get more attempts at the ship glitch?

ZakkyTheHybrid

2014-03-17 03:35:08 pm

Goatragon!

I'm going all out. At this point I know I wouldn't be happy with an okay run that has the ship glitch. I'd like to get the run as close to perfect and optimal (at least by what I know at this point) as possible. I think at this point Stage 3 should now have a pretty close to optimal route. I don't want to call it optimal because I never want to rule out any new possibilities. Besides, I'm probably going to investigate Stage 3 once more.

And honestly, I knew that it might be possible to position on the screen to run past those lasers, but I dreaded the thought and didn't want to even consider it. I've invested a lot into running this though, and I felt that no matter how much the difficulty, I owed it to myself and this run to figure it out.

Before I go back to attempts, though, I need to practice this strat because the timing and precision seems very tight for it. Although that's much like every other strategy anyway. I also want to investigate Stages 2 and 4 more and smooth out any wrinkles in the route there if possible as there are a few things I'm not happy with right now. I don't expect to execute everything perfectly, but at least I can have it routed as well as possible.

Honestly, I think if everything gets perfectly executed, including the ship glitch, it could be entirely possible to cut near an entire minute off of my current best run. But I think I'd be happy if have execution on par with my PB and shave off the 45-50 seconds combined with the new Stage 3 strat and the ship glitch.

I'm going all out.  At this point I know I wouldn't be happy with an okay run that has the ship glitch.  I'd like to get the run as close to perfect and optimal (at least by what I know at this point) as possible.  I think at this point Stage 3 should now have a pretty close to optimal route.  I don't want to call it optimal because I never want to rule out any new possibilities.  Besides, I'm probably going to investigate Stage 3 once more.

And honestly, I knew that it might be possible to position on the screen to run past those lasers, but I dreaded the thought and didn't want to even consider it.  I've invested a lot into running this though, and I felt that no matter how much the difficulty, I owed it to myself and this run to figure it out.

Before I go back to attempts, though, I need to practice this strat because the timing and precision seems very tight for it.  Although that's much like every other strategy anyway.  I also want to investigate Stages 2 and 4 more and smooth out any wrinkles in the route there if possible as there are a few things I'm not happy with right now.  I don't expect to execute everything perfectly, but at least I can have it routed as well as possible.

Honestly, I think if everything gets perfectly executed, including the ship glitch, it could be entirely possible to cut near an entire minute off of my current best run.  But I think I'd be happy if have execution on par with my PB and shave off the 45-50 seconds combined with the new Stage 3 strat and the ship glitch.

ZakkyTheHybrid

2014-08-06 01:24:37 am

Goatragon!

No ship glitch, yet, but...
http://www.twitch.tv/zakkydraggy/c/4831435

ktwo

2014-08-07 08:30:44 am

As usual, very well done!

Now time for some nitpicking... I've said it before and I'll say it again:
- I think your strat on the stair in the last section of stage 2 looks difficult and awkward. I did it differently and I never had trouble in that spot. Up to you, but just pointing it out.
- I still think it looks like you're starting to fire missiles a bit late on the second boss.

? Just a thought when watching this. How consistent are you with the mini-boss and main boss of stage 3? If you arrive there with enough health, would it be an option to damage boost through one of the laser barriers (possible by running backwards to get boosted in the right direction)?

On top of that, there were a few mistakes (as in every speedrun), but I think you know most of what went wrong there, so I won't rub it in... I did notice that you got the frame perfect position on the big turret in stage 2, avoiding taking a hit. The last section of stage 3 was also really nice. Awesome!

Just so you know, the twitch vod is messed up in the middle of stage 4 and 10-15 seconds are missing. I hope you have it locally recorded...

As usual, very well done!

Now time for some nitpicking... I've said it before and I'll say it again:
- I think your strat on the stair in the last section of stage 2 looks difficult and awkward. I did it differently and I never had trouble in that spot. Up to you, but just pointing it out.
- I still think it looks like you're starting to fire missiles a bit late on the second boss.

? Just a thought when watching this. How consistent are you with the mini-boss and main boss of stage 3? If you arrive there with enough health, would it be an option to damage boost through one of the laser barriers (possible by running backwards to get boosted in the right direction)?

On top of that, there were a few mistakes (as in every speedrun), but I think you know most of what went wrong there, so I won't rub it in... I did notice that you got the frame perfect position on the big turret in stage 2, avoiding taking a hit. The last section of stage 3 was also really nice. Awesome!

Just so you know, the twitch vod is messed up in the middle of stage 4 and 10-15 seconds are missing. I hope you have it locally recorded...

ZakkyTheHybrid

2014-08-07 01:33:30 pm

Goatragon!

Quote:

As usual, very well done!

Now time for some nitpicking... I've said it before and I'll say it again:
- I think your strat on the stair in the last section of stage 2 looks difficult and awkward. I did it differently and I never had trouble in that spot. Up to you, but just pointing it out.
- I still think it looks like you're starting to fire missiles a bit late on the second boss.

I'm going to put this to rest right now because I probably didn't say anything about it before and I've been well aware of this since the first time you pointed it out.

I am really inconsistent on that stair jump in Stage 2. It's mostly because of the initial jump off of the elevator as well as speed boosting. I never get my position quite right and I have never had a good feel for it. That may change, that may not change, but I'm well aware of that being a weakness right there. As a result I'm guessing at where I need to jump toward the end. It just happens that every time I get a PB I never hit that jump.

As for the missiles, I don't know. Every time I've tried to do it earlier I hit either the first missile or the first two missiles way too early, so again, something I'm well aware of and that will likely be one of my limitations while running this game.

Quote:

? Just a thought when watching this. How consistent are you with the mini-boss and main boss of stage 3? If you arrive there with enough health, would it be an option to damage boost through one of the laser barriers (possible by running backwards to get boosted in the right direction)?

It might be. I think it'd be worth giving a try during the rare instance I actually make it there with enough health.

Quote:

On top of that, there were a few mistakes (as in every speedrun), but I think you know most of what went wrong there, so I won't rub it in... I did notice that you got the frame perfect position on the big turret in stage 2, avoiding taking a hit. The last section of stage 3 was also really nice. Awesome!

I'm always well aware of every single mistake I make, even the minor ones. That missed grenade at the end was painful and I actually thought I'd killed the run. I was not only unhappy with it because it cost me 2 seconds on the final boss because of 1 less grenade, but I had to take damage twice to kill the left core. If that doesn't happen I would have at least had enough health for one jump into the ship for some early shots on the right core. Getting distracted by that mistake and running into the booster flame didn't help that either, but I'm not sure if I would have had enough health for one go at it anyway.

Quote:

Just so you know, the twitch vod is messed up in the middle of stage 4 and 10-15 seconds are missing. I hope you have it locally recorded...

Lesson #1: Always record locally! Wink

And yeah, I watched it over, so I know the VOD is messed up. Amarec+OBS de-interlacing also messed with the game video to the stream, so I may just have to not de-interlace from now on.

[quote]As usual, very well done!

Now time for some nitpicking... I've said it before and I'll say it again:
- I think your strat on the stair in the last section of stage 2 looks difficult and awkward. I did it differently and I never had trouble in that spot. Up to you, but just pointing it out.
- I still think it looks like you're starting to fire missiles a bit late on the second boss.
[/quote]
I'm going to put this to rest right now because I probably didn't say anything about it before and I've been well aware of this since the first time you pointed it out.

I am really inconsistent on that stair jump in Stage 2.  It's mostly because of the initial jump off of the elevator as well as speed boosting.  I never get my position quite right and I have never had a good feel for it.  That may change, that may not change, but I'm well aware of that being a weakness right there.  As a result I'm guessing at where I need to jump toward the end.  It just happens that every time I get a PB I never hit that jump.

As for the missiles, I don't know.  Every time I've tried to do it earlier I hit either the first missile or the first two missiles way too early, so again, something I'm well aware of and that will likely be one of my limitations while running this game.

[quote]
? Just a thought when watching this. How consistent are you with the mini-boss and main boss of stage 3? If you arrive there with enough health, would it be an option to damage boost through one of the laser barriers (possible by running backwards to get boosted in the right direction)?
[/quote]
It might be.  I think it'd be worth giving a try during the rare instance I actually make it there with enough health.

[quote]
On top of that, there were a few mistakes (as in every speedrun), but I think you know most of what went wrong there, so I won't rub it in... I did notice that you got the frame perfect position on the big turret in stage 2, avoiding taking a hit. The last section of stage 3 was also really nice. Awesome!
[/quote]
I'm always well aware of every single mistake I make, even the minor ones.  That missed grenade at the end was painful and I actually thought I'd killed the run.  I was not only unhappy with it because it cost me 2 seconds on the final boss because of 1 less grenade, but I had to take damage twice to kill the left core.  If that doesn't happen I would have at least had enough health for one jump into the ship for some early shots on the right core.  Getting distracted by that mistake and running into the booster flame didn't help that either, but I'm not sure if I would have had enough health for one go at it anyway.

[quote]
Just so you know, the twitch vod is messed up in the middle of stage 4 and 10-15 seconds are missing. I hope you have it locally recorded...[/quote]
Lesson #1: [i]Always[/i] record locally! ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxhvfSHnu9w

And yeah, I watched it over, so I know the VOD is messed up.  Amarec+OBS de-interlacing also messed with the game video to the stream, so I may just have to not de-interlace from now on.

ZakkyTheHybrid

2015-06-03 03:37:25 am

Goatragon!

Back at it armed with new strats. Cut the time down to 11:06, but with a pretty sloppy run.
http://www.twitch.tv/zakkythegoatragon/v/5749910

Stage 1 was good. Some new routing here.

Stage 2 was average, but can be much better. I can now consistently get up the last set of stairs without getting shot anymore, yay!

Stage 3 went okay and the new strategy at the end of the stage went as planned.

Stage 4 was complete and utter slop and the worst part of this run. Almost NOTHING went right there, so I can save a TON of time. Adding to that, the run should have died, but I was bailed out by lucky health-ups in Stage 4. I have some new strats here, but I failed all of them.

Stage 5 was okay, but I was slow finishing up the second core after missing the ship glitch. At least I didn't mess up the final boss.

With or without the ship glitch sub-11 is VERY possible and my current goal. WITH the ship glitch sub-10:20 is very possible.

ktwo

2015-06-03 02:55:13 pm

Really nice looking new time savers. The last part of stage 3 looked awesome! Why don't you take damage from the bullet on the second core though? It would have allowed you to attack once more from the inside. No risk involved and would save one second.

I'd like to highlight that this run beats Hotarubi's time without video. His reported time was 11:13, which I believe would be 11:08 +-1 second with sda-timing. So congrats on that too!

ZakkyTheHybrid

2015-06-03 04:49:44 pm

Goatragon!

Quote from ktwo:

Really nice looking new time savers. The last part of stage 3 looked awesome!

Thanks! Credit goes to Pasky for sharing a strat to avoid having to destroy the first mine I used to stop for in Stage 1 and to Mattrick for helping me figure out a way to implement that end of Stage 3 strat I came up with a while back, but couldn't ever execute. Their contributions have really been motivating factors for grinding out attempts.

Incidentally, in Stage 3, you may have noticed an awkward jump just before the two claws and that aggressive hover bot. I probably said it when it happened, but I missed the bullet from the turret. Mattrick pointed out to me that since the bullet does less damage, it would be better to get hit by that for the i-frames instead of the claw. That has proved to be invaluable since it provides a little extra insurance against bad RNG.

Quote from ktwo:

Why don't you take damage from the bullet on the second core though? It would have allowed you to attack once more from the inside. No risk involved and would save one second.

Uh, because I goofed when I tested that idea before. I tried it on the wrong bullet and so came to the conclusion it wouldn't work. You do mean the diagonal bullet that fired off right before I jumped into the ship, right? If you do, then yeah, I definitely want to do that!

I need to practice the second half of the fight, anyway because I also need to sync up my mashing with the jumps more efficiently.

Quote from ktwo:

I'd like to highlight that this run beats Hotarubi's time without video. His reported time was 11:13, which I believe would be 11:08 +-1 second with sda-timing. So congrats on that too!

Wow, really? That's really neat to know! Thanks!

[quote="ktwo"]Really nice looking new time savers. The last part of stage 3 looked awesome![/quote]
Thanks!  Credit goes to Pasky for sharing a strat to avoid having to destroy the first mine I used to stop for in Stage 1 and to Mattrick for helping me figure out a way to implement that end of Stage 3 strat I came up with a while back, but couldn't ever execute.  Their contributions have really been motivating factors for grinding out attempts.

Incidentally, in Stage 3, you may have noticed an awkward jump just before the two claws and that aggressive hover bot.  I probably said it when it happened, but I missed the bullet from the turret.  Mattrick pointed out to me that since the bullet does less damage, it would be better to get hit by that for the i-frames instead of the claw.  That has proved to be invaluable since it provides a little extra insurance against bad RNG.

[quote="ktwo"]Why don't you take damage from the bullet on the second core though? It would have allowed you to attack once more from the inside. No risk involved and would save one second.[/quote]
Uh, because I goofed when I tested that idea before.  I tried it on the wrong bullet and so came to the conclusion it wouldn't work.  You do mean the diagonal bullet that fired off right before I jumped into the ship, right?  If you do, then yeah, I definitely want to do that!

I need to practice the second half of the fight, anyway because I also need to sync up my mashing with the jumps more efficiently.

[quote="ktwo"]I'd like to highlight that this run beats Hotarubi's time without video. His reported time was 11:13, which I believe would be 11:08 +-1 second with sda-timing. So congrats on that too![/quote]
Wow, really?  That's really neat to know!  Thanks!

ktwo

2015-06-04 09:23:18 am

(About the second core)
No, it's the vertical bullet. I don't remember the details, but what I mean is to do it like I did in my old pal-run. You can still find it here:
https://archive.org/details/2009-11-11-SDA_Speed_Runs
I never had problems doing it that way, so I'm not sure what kind of issues you ran into.

ZakkyTheHybrid

Edit history:

ZakkyTheHybrid: 2015-06-04 09:56:11 pm

ZakkyTheHybrid: 2015-06-04 10:47:11 am

ZakkyTheHybrid: 2015-06-04 10:46:13 am

2015-06-04 10:37:23 am

Goatragon!

The invincibility frames ran out too quickly for me. It's possible my timing was bad.

I did try it on the diagonal bullet I was talking about though and it's a far easier set up. I can still get two jumps of shots in before it's possible to shoot the core from the right side.

If I face to the right, standing as far to right edge of the screen as possible, all I have to do is jump straight up into the bullet and the resulting knockback sets my position perfectly to just immediately jump straight up and get the shots in. Then all I have to do is immediately jump straight up again and the knockback from the ship damage sets my positioning perfectly for another immediate jump for the next volley of shots. So I don't have to worry at all about jump positioning or timing with this method.

EDIT:
11:05 - http://www.twitch.tv/zakkythegoatragon/v/5822830

Stage 1: Slightly faster, apparently

Stage 2: Messed up the second stair jump. Figures that I'd go on to PB in a run I mess this up in. Likewise with the boss fight. Mistimed a missile, then shorted one, then took a hit thanks to bad RNG. I probably would have gained time without these silly mistakes.

Stage 3: Bad RNG on the first flame mine, perfect RNG the rest of the stage, got the lucky double-claw dodge before the second elevator, executed perfectly the rest of the way. Didn't miss any missiles on the boss fight.

Stage 4: LESS awful. I missed the perfect descent on the first jump down, but the first half of the lower corridor went fine. Goofed and got hit by a turret bullet and the last flying bug before the elevator. Upper corridor was good for the first half and bad the second half. Final corridor and miniboss were good AND I got the 4-cycle kill on the boss.

Stage 5: 2nd core of ship boss went better. My mashing wasn't on point, so this can still be maybe 1s or more faster? Final boss fight went well.

Getting closer...

The invincibility frames ran out too quickly for me.  It's possible my timing was bad.

I did try it on the diagonal bullet I was talking about though and it's a far easier set up.  I can still get two jumps of shots in before it's possible to shoot the core from the right side.

If I face to the right, standing as far to right edge of the screen as possible, all I have to do is jump straight up into the bullet and the resulting knockback sets my position perfectly to just immediately jump straight up and get the shots in.  Then all I have to do is immediately jump straight up again and the knockback from the ship damage sets my positioning perfectly for another immediate jump for the next volley of shots.  So I don't have to worry at all about jump positioning or timing with this method.

EDIT:
11:05 - http://www.twitch.tv/zakkythegoatragon/v/5822830

Stage 1: Slightly faster, apparently

Stage 2: Messed up the second stair jump.  Figures that I'd go on to PB in a run I mess this up in.  Likewise with the boss fight.  Mistimed a missile, then shorted one, then took a hit thanks to bad RNG.  I probably would have gained time without these silly mistakes.

Stage 3: Bad RNG on the first flame mine, perfect RNG the rest of the stage, got the lucky double-claw dodge before the second elevator, executed perfectly the rest of the way.  Didn't miss any missiles on the boss fight.

Stage 4: LESS awful.  I missed the perfect descent on the first jump down, but the first half of the lower corridor went fine.  Goofed and got hit by a turret bullet and the last flying bug before the elevator.  Upper corridor was good for the first half and bad the second half.  Final corridor and miniboss were good AND I got the 4-cycle kill on the boss.

Stage 5: 2nd core of ship boss went better.  My mashing wasn't on point, so this can still be maybe 1s or more faster?  Final boss fight went well.

Getting closer...

ZakkyTheHybrid

2015-06-13 09:30:06 pm

Goatragon!

Just 3s away from sub-11 now. It could have been this run if I had been just a touch better on execution.

Twitch highlight: http://www.twitch.tv/zakkythegoatragon/v/6151734

The first two stages were pretty good, aside from another miss by me on the turret skip in Stage 2.

Stage 3 went okay, but I made a major mistake that would have ended the run if I didn't have the health I did. I'm pretty sure I picked up a lucky health power-up earlier in the stage.

Stage 4 was less bad, but still the weakest part of the run. I need this to be good. At least I'm getting the 4-cycle on the boss consistently.

Finally, on Stage 5, I missed the ship glitch (not surprisingly, but I was also jumpier than usual, which didn't help) and then didn't mash well on the ship boss and lost time.

So, if I don't miss the turret skip in Stage 2, have an even better Stage 3, a good Stage 4, and then mash well on the second core if I miss the glitch, sub-11 should happen. That said, maybe I'll just get fortunate and hit the glitch to begin with! Wink

Just 3s away from sub-11 now.  It could have been this run if I had been just a touch better on execution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg0lG3Psi3c

Twitch highlight: http://www.twitch.tv/zakkythegoatragon/v/6151734

The first two stages were pretty good, aside from another miss by me on the turret skip in Stage 2.

Stage 3 went okay, but I made a major mistake that would have ended the run if I didn't have the health I did.  I'm pretty sure I picked up a lucky health power-up earlier in the stage.

Stage 4 was less bad, but still the weakest part of the run.  I need this to be good.  At least I'm getting the 4-cycle on the boss consistently.

Finally, on Stage 5, I missed the ship glitch (not surprisingly, but I was also jumpier than usual, which didn't help) and then didn't mash well on the ship boss and lost time.

So, if I don't miss the turret skip in Stage 2, have an even better Stage 3, a good Stage 4, and then mash well on the second core if I miss the glitch, sub-11 should happen.  That said, maybe I'll just get fortunate and hit the glitch to begin with! ;)

ZakkyTheHybrid

Edit history:

ZakkyTheHybrid: 2015-10-19 10:44:50 pm

2015-10-19 10:44:31 pm

Goatragon!

Hit the ship glitch in TWO runs in one night for two bad PBs, but at least it's a good demonstration.

PB of Shame #1 - 10:58: http://www.twitch.tv/zakkythegoatragon/v/21528163

PB of Shame #2 - 10:50: http://www.twitch.tv/zakkythegoatragon/v/21527017

ZakkyTheHybrid

2015-10-26 11:01:05 pm

Goatragon!

Journey to Silius took it on the chin tonight.

10:20 - http://www.twitch.tv/zakkythegoatragon/v/22646697

honorableJay

2015-10-26 11:21:09 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Takin it on the chin would've been a 10:40. You went straight for the balls and made em POP.

Gratz dude, you earned it.

ZakkyTheHybrid

2015-10-27 09:18:43 am

Goatragon!

Thanks!

Also, better quality video of the run here:

PJ

2015-10-27 10:07:07 am

Is PJ

This run is filthy. Really, really great work, Zakky!

ktwo

2015-10-27 01:12:07 pm

That was an awesome watch. It looks like you found a few new minor time savers as well. So what's the secret behind all these successful shit glitches suddenly?

ZakkyTheHybrid

2015-10-27 01:50:41 pm

Goatragon!

Quote from PJ:

This run is filthy. Really, really great work, Zakky!

Thanks!

Quote from ktwo:

That was an awesome watch. It looks like you found a few new minor time savers as well. So what's the secret behind all these successful shit glitches suddenly?

I found a set-up that allows my attempts at the glitch to be far more consistent than before. I stand in the same position each time and wait for the ship hit me so that the timing for taking damage is always the same. Then I use the damage animation as a buffer for my steps to the left and the jump and shot. This means that the only variables are now the duration of my steps, the strength of the jump (minor), and the shot timing. There's still a lot of luck involved regardless, though, but I feel like the consistency is a big help.

The irony for this run is that I was not comfortable trying to set it up and even thought I was in the wrong spot!