Information on the History of Speedrunning?

2019-11-19 06:37:25 pm

Hello, I'm working on a project covering on the the history of speedrunning, specifically focused on how it has evolved over the years. However, I'm having a lot of difficulty finding reliable sources to work off of online. I saw someone suggest to look into SDA's forums for knowledgeable folk, so here I am!

Any links, tips, or advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

Thread title:

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2019-11-20 07:18:36 am

2019-11-20 07:18:12 am

One idea would be to compare the oldest and most recent rules page revisions (though the oldest one in the wiki is not the oldest rules page, not sure where to find it but I can ask someone if you want to see it). SDA pretty much was speedrunning (except for a few select games) for a long time, so SDA's rules were and actually still are very relevant since they established the base level definitions of what kinds of rules are considered standard. https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Rules

...or the oldest threads on this forum. https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/board/sda_discussion-73.html You'll see this was originally a Quake speedrunning board.
https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/board/quake2-13.html

https://archive.org/details/speed_runs?and%5B%5D=sda+speed+runs&sort=publicdate

https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Historical_Records

http://dl.speeddemosarchive.com/archive.txt

This never-finished project collected lots of data specifically about TASing but some of it will be relevant to you as well. You might as well save a local copy cause I don't think it exists outside my hard drive / cloud.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6VbXOZpnj6MbkZweWNRNUZpaGc/view?usp=sharing

For specific questions or sources, ask again.

One idea would be to compare the oldest and most recent rules page revisions (though the oldest one in the wiki is not the oldest rules page, not sure where to find it but I can ask someone if you want to see it). SDA pretty much was speedrunning (except for a few select games) for a long time, so SDA's rules were and actually still are very relevant since they established the base level definitions of what kinds of rules are considered standard. https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Rules

...or the oldest threads on this forum. https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/board/sda_discussion-73.html You'll see this was originally a Quake speedrunning board.
https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/board/quake2-13.html

https://archive.org/details/speed_runs?and%5B%5D=sda+speed+runs&sort=publicdate

https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Historical_Records

http://dl.speeddemosarchive.com/archive.txt

This never-finished project collected lots of data specifically about TASing but some of it will be relevant to you as well. You might as well save a local copy cause I don't think it exists outside my hard drive / cloud.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6VbXOZpnj6MbkZweWNRNUZpaGc/view?usp=sharing

For specific questions or sources, ask again.

LotBlind

2019-11-21 12:34:22 pm

Actually, there is a lot of specific things I could mention as well that all have had a tangible impact. You'll have to find your own exact dates and sources though:

- the increasing popularity of YouTube and creation of speedrun.com and maybe speedrunslive.com has caused a lot of people to leave SDA since it's much easier to upload videos elsewhere if that's all you want. Why those remaining on SDA don't think this way is summarized here. I know you might not want to delve too deep into opinions in your project.

- Ever since the marathons got started, there has been a huge shift to single-segment running in general, and marathon-safe routes in specific. The latter was never really a thing I assume before the first marathon, Classic Games Done Quick in 2010 (I assume this was the first such event but I don't know for sure).

There are other reasons why so much speedrunning is single-segmented (SS) these days:
- there used to be less storage space and whatever other technical limitations made recording such long videos impossible for many people: so they would record runs in segments instead even if they would have preferred SS.
- since those other sites (and to some degree, the marathons), focus so much on competitive running, you can't really compete in segmented runs (or at least it isn't done in practice) so that's reason number 2
- people stream their running and, while I don't have any first-hand experience, I guess streams that do segmented runs wouldn't be as popular (again, streaming never used to be a thing until the rise of Justin TV / Twitch) A segmented speedrun can take a very long time to grind out but with SS attempts, at least there's always "something happening".
- Somehow more and more people have become comfortable with the idea of doing even runs of extreme length (JRPGs) in SS. I think this ties in with the Twitch streams again, creating a spectacle, trying to stand out...
- Relatedly, it's not as easy to monetize your speedrunning if you aren't streaming it or at least have a sufficient amount of activity in your YT page, at least not in the current climate. Kind of an assumption by me again, I don't actively look for speedrun streams.
- I don't know if this can be backed up by evidence but I've sometimes wondered if the generation that's used to instant dings, dongs, and confetti (smartphones etc.) feel a long-term, potentially quite lonely, segmented project has no inherent appeal. Even the idea of spending a ton of time testing every option without actually getting anything immediately tangible out of it would require a long-term reward acceptance. This isn't my words, there's been plenty of research on this topic I believe.
- The more platforms have become available for TASing (and the count has increased immensely and continues to do so), perhaps some of those who might have been doing segmented runs in the past will shift over to TASing the games instead. Either that or at least they might feel that segmented runs don't have as much leeway to be valuable anymore since the TAS is "the same but more so" (which I don't think I can immediately agree with, I think in many cases there's plenty of room for both).
- The marathons has also emphasized the runners more than anyone working behind the scenes (actually finding the tricks etc. if they're not the same people) and I think definitely you get more of a sense of "who's the best" / nerd credit from SS running than segmented runs, especially if it's a cooperative effort.

So there's a ton of reasons why segmented runs (and ILs as well for many of the same reasons) are that much more rare nowadays, though maybe games that can be run in ILs have become more rare as well, I have no idea honestly. I think this probably isn't even all there is to say on this matter. I've often thought about writing a long essay on it. That having been said, there are still some communities that do segmented runs cooperatively, and consistently. One of these I know to be the source runs people.

There's much more to talk about. I'll get back to this later.

Actually, there is a lot of specific things I could mention as well that all have had a tangible impact. You'll have to find your own exact dates and sources though:

- the increasing popularity of YouTube and creation of speedrun.com and maybe speedrunslive.com has caused a lot of people to leave SDA since it's much easier to upload videos elsewhere if that's all you want. Why those remaining on SDA don't think this way is summarized [url=https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/sdas_response_to_the_speedrunning_survey_results__differences_between_sda_and_speedrun.com.html]here[/url]. I know you might not want to delve too deep into opinions in your project.

- Ever since the marathons got started, there has been a huge shift to single-segment running in general, and marathon-safe routes in specific. The latter was never really a thing I assume before the first marathon, [url=https://horaro.org/agdq/2010-cgdq]Classic Games Done Quick in 2010[/url] (I assume this was the first such event but I don't know for sure).

There are other reasons why so much speedrunning is single-segmented (SS) these days:
- there used to be less storage space and whatever other technical limitations made recording such long videos impossible for many people: so they would record runs in segments instead even if they would have preferred SS.
- since those other sites (and to some degree, the marathons), focus so much on competitive running, you can't really compete in segmented runs (or at least it isn't done in practice) so that's reason number 2
- people stream their running and, while I don't have any first-hand experience, I guess streams that do segmented runs wouldn't be as popular (again, streaming never used to be a thing until the rise of Justin TV / Twitch) A segmented speedrun can take a very long time to grind out but with SS attempts, at least there's always "something happening".
- Somehow more and more people have become comfortable with the idea of doing even runs of extreme length (JRPGs) in SS. I think this ties in with the Twitch streams again, creating a spectacle, trying to stand out...
- Relatedly, it's not as easy to monetize your speedrunning if you aren't streaming it or at least have a sufficient amount of activity in your YT page, at least not in the current climate. Kind of an assumption by me again, I don't actively look for speedrun streams.
- I don't know if this can be backed up by evidence but I've sometimes wondered if the generation that's used to instant dings, dongs, and confetti (smartphones etc.) feel a long-term, potentially quite lonely, segmented project has no inherent appeal. Even the idea of spending a ton of time testing every option without actually getting anything immediately tangible out of it would require a long-term reward acceptance. This isn't my words, there's been plenty of research on this topic I believe.
- The more platforms have become available for TASing (and the count has increased immensely and continues to do so), perhaps some of those who might have been doing segmented runs in the past will shift over to TASing the games instead. Either that or at least they might feel that segmented runs don't have as much leeway to be valuable anymore since the TAS is "the same but more so" (which I don't think I can immediately agree with, I think in many cases there's plenty of room for both).
- The marathons has also emphasized the runners more than anyone working behind the scenes (actually finding the tricks etc. if they're not the same people) and I think definitely you get more of a sense of "who's the best" / nerd credit from SS running than segmented runs, especially if it's a cooperative effort.

So there's a ton of reasons why segmented runs (and ILs as well for many of the same reasons) are that much more rare nowadays, though maybe games that can be run in ILs have become more rare as well, I have no idea honestly. I think this probably isn't even all there is to say on this matter. I've often thought about writing a long essay on it. That having been said, there are still some communities that do segmented runs cooperatively, and consistently. One of these I know to be the [url=https://www.youtube.com/user/sourceruns]source runs people[/url].

There's much more to talk about. I'll get back to this later.

SkyFlakes

2019-11-23 12:11:34 pm

Sorry for the late reply, just been very busy. Anyway, thank you so much for all of this information. I'm working my way through it and gathering my notes. I'll be sure to ask any questions that come up as I start putting this all together.

LotBlind

2020-01-24 07:44:18 am

How is this coming along?

I remembered about another post I made about segmented runs earlier with input from others too.