Improving the Superstar Saga run

2006-02-16 07:26:38 pm

Never give up!

When I originally watched Dragondarch's Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga run, I was very impressed at its general quality.

That being said, I myself believe it's a bit..... sluggish in spots. I decided to get working on finding ways to improve that run - I've got a bunch of notes that currently go up to segment 25 of Dragondarch's run, but unfortunately a lot of them are written in a rather condescending manner*. (At least I'm somewhat sure condescending is the term.) And unfortunately there's two complaints that are constantly repeated throughout the notes.

I've also decided that before I work on actually performing the improved run, I'm going to try to do a playthrough using the path Dragondarch took and make sure I've got enough skill to even attempt to beat his run. (I figure that if I can beat, match, or even come within two minutes of his current time using HIS initial route, I've got enough skill to make the attempt.)

Now, with that out of the way, I'd like to turn this into a discussion on tricks to make the run faster.

I'll start with one that's probably semi-obvious: intentionally missing two (and only two) jumps with each character during the Border Jump minigame allows for fewer fireworks at the end of it (one firework for each remaining chance), which will save a second or two (or maybe even three) at the end. Considering Border Jump is done seven times (this assumes I find out getting the 25 Hee Beans is faster than getting 25 Hoo Beans), that's up to twenty seconds that could be saved. I'm guessing the only reason Dragondarch didn't do this in his run has to do with his explicitly-stated intent on trying to get perfect minigames.

On a related note, since it has become clear to me that the Border Jump can be repeated IMMEDIATELY after completing the first one (and get the Hee Beans right away), another idea I had was doing the Border Jump repetitions right away instead of waiting. (Again, I'm assuming the Hee Beans are faster when I say this.)

For now, that's what I've got. As I come up with more potential time-savers I'll put them here (unless people beat me to them).

Okay, I've got one other thing I've considered. Since BP isn't as big of a problem as Dragondarch seemed to think it would be as he was doing his run, I'd suggest several things in that regard:
1) Only level up BP at each of the levels that ends in a 6 or a 1 (levels 6, 11, 16, 21, 26, 31... I don't think it's necessary to go the next increment), and increase Power for every remaining level. I'm not sure base BP is viable, which is why I suggest it this way.
2) Keep a maximum of 10 Syrups at hand at any given time.
3) Utilize the Mush Badge AA and stock up on Mushrooms.

Oh, and I didn't list here the potential time-savers Dragondarch listed in the commentary for his run, as a note.

* If people still want to see the notes, tell me and I'll put them up.

Thread title:

When I originally watched Dragondarch's Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga run, I was very impressed at its general quality.

That being said, I myself believe it's a bit..... sluggish in spots.  I decided to get working on finding ways to improve that run - I've got a bunch of notes that currently go up to segment 25 of Dragondarch's run, but unfortunately a lot of them are written in a rather condescending manner*.  (At least I'm somewhat sure condescending is the term.)  And unfortunately there's two complaints that are constantly repeated throughout the notes.

I've also decided that before I work on actually performing the improved run, I'm going to try to do a playthrough using the path Dragondarch took and make sure I've got enough skill to even attempt to beat his run.  (I figure that if I can beat, match, or even come within two minutes of his current time using HIS initial route, I've got enough skill to make the attempt.)

Now, with that out of the way, I'd like to turn this into a discussion on tricks to make the run faster.

I'll start with one that's probably semi-obvious: intentionally missing two (and only two) jumps with each character during the Border Jump minigame allows for fewer fireworks at the end of it (one firework for each remaining chance), which will save a second or two (or maybe even three) at the end.  Considering Border Jump is done seven times (this assumes I find out getting the 25 Hee Beans is faster than getting 25 Hoo Beans), that's up to twenty seconds that could be saved.  I'm guessing the only reason Dragondarch didn't do this in his run has to do with his explicitly-stated intent on trying to get perfect minigames.

On a related note, since it has become clear to me that the Border Jump can be repeated IMMEDIATELY after completing the first one (and get the Hee Beans right away), another idea I had was doing the Border Jump repetitions right away instead of waiting.  (Again, I'm assuming the Hee Beans are faster when I say this.)

For now, that's what I've got.  As I come up with more potential time-savers I'll put them here (unless people beat me to them).

Okay, I've got one other thing I've considered.  Since BP isn't as big of a problem as Dragondarch seemed to think it would be as he was doing his run, I'd suggest several things in that regard:
1) Only level up BP at each of the levels that ends in a 6 or a 1 (levels 6, 11, 16, 21, 26, 31... I don't think it's necessary to go the next increment), and increase Power for every remaining level.  I'm not sure base BP is viable, which is why I suggest it this way.
2) Keep a maximum of 10 Syrups at hand at any given time.
3) Utilize the Mush Badge AA and stock up on Mushrooms.

Oh, and I didn't list here the potential time-savers Dragondarch listed in the commentary for his run, as a note.

[size=10]* If people still want to see the notes, tell me and I'll put them up.[/size]

Rael

2006-02-16 07:45:39 pm

I'd like to see the notes.

StrangenessDSS

2006-02-16 08:01:35 pm

Sleeping Terror

Please don't follow up excellent battles with slow deliberation over which stat to pick, like he did.

AquaTiger

2006-02-16 08:08:04 pm

Never give up!

Rael: I'll be honest, I'd like to get the notes for a few more segments before I publish. However, I'll more than likely post up the notes tonight - probably in the original form, since I'm not sure how I'd write them in a manner guaranteed not to irritate Dragondarch.

StrangenessDSS: Oddly enough, I actually mention that in the notes - something along the lines of "know what you're picking before you start the segment".

Rael

2006-02-16 08:14:37 pm

Will this be a no damage run?

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-02-16 08:39:36 pm

2006-02-16 08:38:13 pm

Never give up!

Once I get the Bonus Ring (by blending the second drink), I'm going to try fairly hard to go for no damage, because taking no damage allows for double the experience from battles once you can start using the Bonus Ring. I might not exactly restart every time I take a hit, except in battles where an entire levelup is at stake as a result, but taking hits in more than one battle in a run (not many segments with multiple battles regardless) will certainly warrant a restart.

Before then? I might not fret nearly as much as Dragondarch over taking a hit, but taking a hit seems to result in a wait of a few moments (maybe a quarter to a half of a second) longer than doing the dodge correctly, and it looks sloppy as well, so I'm going to do my best to avoid taking hits. If either Mario or Luigi gets KOed, though, that WILL be an instant restart, and not just because such 'deaths' are horridly sloppy - it's more because I'd have to waste time reviving the KOed brother.

I'll also be trying to avoid non-crucial battles when possible, but I probably will segment the run differently than Dragondarch.

Once I get the Bonus Ring (by blending the second drink), I'm going to try fairly hard to go for no damage, because taking no damage allows for double the experience from battles once you can start using the Bonus Ring.  I might not exactly restart every time I take a hit, except in battles where an entire levelup is at stake as a result, but taking hits in more than one battle in a run (not many segments with multiple battles regardless) will certainly warrant a restart.

Before then?  I might not fret nearly as much as Dragondarch over taking a hit, but taking a hit seems to result in a wait of a few moments (maybe a quarter to a half of a second) longer than doing the dodge correctly, and it looks sloppy as well, so I'm going to do my best to avoid taking hits.  If either Mario or Luigi gets KOed, though, that WILL be an instant restart, and not just because such 'deaths' are horridly sloppy - it's more because I'd have to waste time reviving the KOed brother.

I'll also be trying to avoid non-crucial battles when possible, but I probably will segment the run differently than Dragondarch.

Dragondarch

2006-02-16 09:47:59 pm

Pudding%

Quick starting note for AquaTiger: Not much in the way of notes will irritate me at this point...I've dealt with the AoS crowd more than once and some of them were harsh (although warranted at times).

Other than that, since I'm in the middle of something right now and only have a couple minutes:

Guess I'll be knocking this further up the queue Wink

Last time I managed to have a competitor (Crystalis-tmont) I managed to blow my old time away...so maybe again 8)

qqwref

2006-02-17 02:11:41 am

I like this site name cause it's easy to remember.

Go ahead, I say. Just one thing: are you going to use as many segments as Dragondarch did? It's understandable because he wanted to make sure he didn't take any damage, but it can be annoying to download and then have to queue up all of the files.

AquaTiger

2006-02-17 03:05:11 am

Never give up!

I'm going to try NOT to use QUITE that many segments. It depends on how much optimizing I need to do in the actual run, but I'm one of those strange cases where smaller segments actually tax my sanity more than medium-size or even long segments.

Anyway, I am now ready to put up some of the notes I mentioned. I have them listed up to segment 29 right now, and it turns out not every one of them is the irritating kind. What I'll be putting up is only slightly edited from my original writing, actually.

First, I'll get the two common gripes out of the way: saves and levelups. The frequency of saves in certain areas didn't seem.... I dunno, for some it didn't seem quite as justified as for others. I'll dig up exact examples soon, as I have this feeling Dragondarch will be storming back here demanding examples.

As for levelups, to the point that I've studied in the run, my opinions are such that I can find maybe two fights where doing the fight over for higher stats is certainly NOT worth it. Those two are Queen Bean and Cackletta (segments 10 and 20, respectively). There are some fights that are borderline in this respect, including Chuckolator and probably the Mom Piranha, and they'd be unworthy unless you got HORRID levelups.

Now, segment stuff (I've edited out minigame, level, and save notes unless there's something IMPORTANT or the note is positive):

Segment 1:
-It probably was just been a mind lapse, but stepping on the footprints for the camera first isn't necessary.
-This is actually not a bad place to end the first segment. I mean, you've done all the intro filler, so why do it again?

Segment 2:
-I've said this earlier, but I wonder if it's faster to do all the Border Jump stuff HERE rather than later.

Segment 3:
-The first rotating blocks part probably wasn't as smoothly done as it could have been. Could have been just a brain fart, I dunno.
-Originally, I was not 100% sure why you hesitated on what I'm going to call the 'Bros. Coin Blocks'. I take it the controls hated you then?
-That wrong move near the end of the flag course near the Starshade Bros. HAD to be a brain fart. I refuse to accept the idea that it was a conscious mistake.
-Excellent place to end the segment in my opinion.

Segment 4:
-No comments.

Segment 5:
-Why not switch to High Jump WHILE headed to the second flame guy you had to squirt water on instead of once you're already there?
-Excellent save choice in my opinion.

Segment 6:
-I wonder if making BOTH brothers use Bros. Attacks at once nearly ALL the time would make the fight with this boss go any faster. (Only use a standard Jump if it means re-exposing him - it looks like you use them a little early in a couple of places.) I'll test this again myself and find out for sure.
-I think you might have been able to have gotten that one whirlwind on the previous pass.
-Another good save location actually.

Segment 7:
-No comments.

Segment 8:
-Surprisingly, no comments once again.

Segment 9:
-I get the impression that waiting for that one enemy takes almost as long as fighting it would.
-I'd suggest cutting across the ground a little more.
-I fully agree that this save IS mission critical.

Segment 10:
-I was trying to add things up to see if the Queen Bean fight could be done in fewer turns on the same beginning setup, but it doesn't look like it can.

Segment 11:
-No comments.

Segment 12:
-Why oh WHY do they put an enemy in such a crappy spot?
-This is a fine save, but that's only because Wiggler's in the next part.

Segment 13:
-Little sloppy on retrieving the last Chuckle Bean.
-Could you have set up the right mode for Chopper Bros. right before using Splash Bros. on Wiggler?
-You probably could have spent less time by fighting that one Shy Guy instead of trying to avoid him.
-Kinda looked a bit off right before getting the white fruit.
-Probably better off saving here at least.

Segment 14:
-No special comments, although I actually appreciate the levelling luck you got here for once.

Segment 15:
-What was with the third-to-last Beanstone? Did fatigue suddenly set in?
-I'd have suggested waiting to shop until you have the Bros. Rock badge in your possession, so you wouldn't have to make two trips. Also, I forgot to say it earlier but I'd suggest holding on to your mushrooms.

Segment 16:
-I almost want to say you should have gotten the pipe at the end of last segment.
-I've mentioned potentially doing the Border Jump stuff very early already, I think. If you'd have done the Border Jump early I think you could have gotten the first drink blended at the end of last segment as well.
-If all the stuff I have mentioned here works this segment's eliminated altogether.

Segment 17:
-Now that I think of it, I'm not really sure getting 25 Hoo beans is worth it, the way they appear to be spaced out so much.
-Your handling of the oversize coin block is horrid in my opinion. May want to do a test attempt of the segment and figure them out. Unless there's no set pattern to the oversize ones.... I'll look at this again and make absolute certain.
-I'm not sure the 'back and forth' coin block is worthwhile.

Segment 18:
-Better handling of this oversize coin block but still not very good-looking.

Segment 19:
-Nothing to question in this part, not even your choice to save here.

Segment 20:
-A good fight against Cackletta - especially that use of Bounce Bros. Advance. Also, you're right in calling BS on the shadow-size thing - it looks like each size of shadow was the real one once in that fight.
-I just realized - is there a way to manipulate it so you always deal an odd amount of damage to Cackletta? I've heard there's a pattern - if you deal an odd amount of damage in a round she'll use the lightning attack, but if you deal an even amount of damage she'll use her cloning move.
-A good save for anyone but the insane, actually.

Segment 21:
-No comments - you might think I'm insane saying that right before a boss, but it really depends on whether the save at the end of segment 20 was actually used or not.

Segment 22:
-I wonder if it's possible to beat Rookie before the Piledriver Bros. attack?

Segment 23:
-Somewhat sloppy handling of the retrieval of the Chuckle Bean.
-The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.
-Is waiting that long to avoid a fight really worth it?

Segment 24:
-Handle the middle one LAST so you can jump right into battle with the mother Piranha. I don't know if it's actually faster, but it LOOKS like it could be by a second or two.
-Make sure to get the electricity right on the FIRST pass.
-Good place to save, I think.

Segment 25:
-Good avoiding of the front Piranhas.
-Remember to exit those menus CLEANLY.... not after a botch or two.
-Selling the blended coffees after you get them is probably a good idea, especially since you have the #1 Trousers at this point in time and therefore don't need a speed boost (which the Chuckle Blend gives).
-The dodging looks like it could have been done without resetting the Lakitu-esque monster's position.
-Saving there was good, if only because the next part is so absurdly LONG.

Segment 26:
-I think overall this segment went well enough. I'm not even commenting on your levelups here, because there's enough of them that redoing a segment for just a few more points, when it's pseudorandom the way it is, is nonsense, nor will I comment on your choice of save, because I wouldn't want to do that minigame again either.
-Okay, there's ONE thing I want to comment on. Wouldn't it be better to start battles here by getting a first strike with the hammer?

Segment 27:
-Make sure to end ANY use of Chopper Bros. Advance with a MISS rather than let Luigi carry Mario back - I can almost guarantee the miss is faster.
-I know you mentioned this one already in your comments, but keep the number of hits with Chopper Bros. Advance to five - I think that after five hits, the damage has lowered so much that it's not worth continuing the attack.
-Knowing what you're going to get in the levelups for a segment before doing the segment might save time. Since there's three levelups per character here, that's the only comment I'm going to make about your levelups.
-I also realize you mentioned this one, but getting the pipe here now is important for later.
-After a long segment like that a save is a smart idea.

Segment 28:
-The pillars part was handled quite well.
-The inside was a little rough, but I don't think those accidental miscues add up to more than five seconds.
-Considering the length of the next segment, I don't think it's BAD that you saved here, although I wonder what save point could have been better.

Segment 29:
-I would have suggested using the Spin Jump to get on the boat instead of trying to get the normal jump to be perfect. Maybe it's just the two misses that makes me think that way.
-The minigame here was decent, and I realize it's not crucial to get higher than 10 rows, but this one went slow in my opinion.

Right now, that's all I have. It's a lot, I know.

I'm going to try NOT to use QUITE that many segments.  It depends on how much optimizing I need to do in the actual run, but I'm one of those strange cases where smaller segments actually tax my sanity more than medium-size or even long segments.

Anyway, I am now ready to put up some of the notes I mentioned.  I have them listed up to segment 29 right now, and it turns out not every one of them is the irritating kind.  What I'll be putting up is only slightly edited from my original writing, actually.

First, I'll get the two common gripes out of the way: saves and levelups.  The frequency of saves in certain areas didn't seem.... I dunno, for some it didn't seem quite as justified as for others.  I'll dig up exact examples soon, as I have this feeling Dragondarch will be storming back here demanding examples.

As for levelups, to the point that I've studied in the run, my opinions are such that I can find maybe two fights where doing the fight over for higher stats is certainly NOT worth it.  Those two are Queen Bean and Cackletta (segments 10 and 20, respectively).  There are some fights that are borderline in this respect, including Chuckolator and probably the Mom Piranha, and they'd be unworthy unless you got HORRID levelups.

Now, segment stuff (I've edited out minigame, level, and save notes unless there's something IMPORTANT or the note is positive):

Segment 1:
-It probably was just been a mind lapse, but stepping on the footprints for the camera first isn't necessary.
-This is actually not a bad place to end the first segment.  I mean, you've done all the intro filler, so why do it again?

Segment 2:
-I've said this earlier, but I wonder if it's faster to do all the Border Jump stuff HERE rather than later.

Segment 3:
-The first rotating blocks part probably wasn't as smoothly done as it could have been.  Could have been just a brain fart, I dunno.
-Originally, I was not 100% sure why you hesitated on what I'm going to call the 'Bros. Coin Blocks'.  I take it the controls hated you then?
-That wrong move near the end of the flag course near the Starshade Bros. HAD to be a brain fart.  I refuse to accept the idea that it was a conscious mistake.
-Excellent place to end the segment in my opinion.

Segment 4:
-No comments.

Segment 5:
-Why not switch to High Jump WHILE headed to the second flame guy you had to squirt water on instead of once you're already there?
-Excellent save choice in my opinion.

Segment 6:
-I wonder if making BOTH brothers use Bros. Attacks at once nearly ALL the time would make the fight with this boss go any faster.  (Only use a standard Jump if it means re-exposing him - it looks like you use them a little early in a couple of places.)  I'll test this again myself and find out for sure.
-I think you might have been able to have gotten that one whirlwind on the previous pass.
-Another good save location actually.

Segment 7:
-No comments.

Segment 8:
-Surprisingly, no comments once again.

Segment 9:
-I get the impression that waiting for that one enemy takes almost as long as fighting it would.
-I'd suggest cutting across the ground a little more.
-I fully agree that this save IS mission critical.

Segment 10:
-I was trying to add things up to see if the Queen Bean fight could be done in fewer turns on the same beginning setup, but it doesn't look like it can.

Segment 11:
-No comments.

Segment 12:
-Why oh WHY do they put an enemy in such a crappy spot?
-This is a fine save, but that's only because Wiggler's in the next part.

Segment 13:
-Little sloppy on retrieving the last Chuckle Bean.
-Could you have set up the right mode for Chopper Bros. right before using Splash Bros. on Wiggler?
-You probably could have spent less time by fighting that one Shy Guy instead of trying to avoid him.
-Kinda looked a bit off right before getting the white fruit.
-Probably better off saving here at least.

Segment 14:
-No special comments, although I actually appreciate the levelling luck you got here for once.

Segment 15:
-What was with the third-to-last Beanstone?  Did fatigue suddenly set in?
-I'd have suggested waiting to shop until you have the Bros. Rock badge in your possession, so you wouldn't have to make two trips.  Also, I forgot to say it earlier but I'd suggest holding on to your mushrooms.

Segment 16:
-I almost want to say you should have gotten the pipe at the end of last segment.
-I've mentioned potentially doing the Border Jump stuff very early already, I think. If you'd have done the Border Jump early I think you could have gotten the first drink blended at the end of last segment as well.
-If all the stuff I have mentioned here works this segment's eliminated altogether.

Segment 17:
-Now that I think of it, I'm not really sure getting 25 Hoo beans is worth it, the way they appear to be spaced out so much.
-Your handling of the oversize coin block is horrid in my opinion.  May want to do a test attempt of the segment and figure them out.  Unless there's no set pattern to the oversize ones....  I'll look at this again and make absolute certain.
-I'm not sure the 'back and forth' coin block is worthwhile.

Segment 18:
-Better handling of this oversize coin block but still not very good-looking.

Segment 19:
-Nothing to question in this part, not even your choice to save here.

Segment 20:
-A good fight against Cackletta - especially that use of Bounce Bros. Advance. Also, you're right in calling BS on the shadow-size thing - it looks like each size of shadow was the real one once in that fight.
-I just realized - is there a way to manipulate it so you always deal an odd amount of damage to Cackletta?  I've heard there's a pattern - if you deal an odd amount of damage in a round she'll use the lightning attack, but if you deal an even amount of damage she'll use her cloning move.
-A good save for anyone but the insane, actually.

Segment 21:
-No comments - you might think I'm insane saying that right before a boss, but it really depends on whether the save at the end of segment 20 was actually used or not.

Segment 22:
-I wonder if it's possible to beat Rookie before the Piledriver Bros. attack?

Segment 23:
-Somewhat sloppy handling of the retrieval of the Chuckle Bean.
-The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.
-Is waiting that long to avoid a fight really worth it?

Segment 24:
-Handle the middle one LAST so you can jump right into battle with the mother Piranha.  I don't know if it's actually faster, but it LOOKS like it could be by a second or two.
-Make sure to get the electricity right on the FIRST pass.
-Good place to save, I think.

Segment 25:
-Good avoiding of the front Piranhas.
-Remember to exit those menus CLEANLY.... not after a botch or two.
-Selling the blended coffees after you get them is probably a good idea, especially since you have the #1 Trousers at this point in time and therefore don't need a speed boost (which the Chuckle Blend gives).
-The dodging looks like it could have been done without resetting the Lakitu-esque monster's position.
-Saving there was good, if only because the next part is so absurdly LONG.

Segment 26:
-I think overall this segment went well enough.  I'm not even commenting on your levelups here, because there's enough of them that redoing a segment for just a few more points, when it's pseudorandom the way it is, is nonsense, nor will I comment on your choice of save, because I wouldn't want to do that minigame again either.
-Okay, there's ONE thing I want to comment on.  Wouldn't it be better to start battles here by getting a first strike with the hammer?

Segment 27:
-Make sure to end ANY use of Chopper Bros. Advance with a MISS rather than let Luigi carry Mario back - I can almost guarantee the miss is faster.
-I know you mentioned this one already in your comments, but keep the number of hits with Chopper Bros. Advance to five - I think that after five hits, the damage has lowered so much that it's not worth continuing the attack.
-Knowing what you're going to get in the levelups for a segment before doing the segment might save time.  Since there's three levelups per character here, that's the only comment I'm going to make about your levelups.
-I also realize you mentioned this one, but getting the pipe here now is important for later.
-After a long segment like that a save is a smart idea.

Segment 28:
-The pillars part was handled quite well.
-The inside was a little rough, but I don't think those accidental miscues add up to more than five seconds.
-Considering the length of the next segment, I don't think it's BAD that you saved here, although I wonder what save point could have been better.

Segment 29:
-I would have suggested using the Spin Jump to get on the boat instead of trying to get the normal jump to be perfect.  Maybe it's just the two misses that makes me think that way.
-The minigame here was decent, and I realize it's not crucial to get higher than 10 rows, but this one went slow in my opinion.

Right now, that's all I have.  It's a lot, I know.

Dragondarch

Edit history:

Dragondarch: 2006-02-17 01:23:32 pm

2006-02-17 10:43:58 am

Pudding%

Watching through the vids and editing this post as I watch each segment...check back every so often.

Quote:

Segment 1:
-It probably was just been a mind lapse, but stepping on the footprints for the camera first isn't necessary.
-This is actually not a bad place to end the first segment. I mean, you've done all the intro filler, so why do it again?

-That was a mind lapse with the footprints.
-I actually think this next time I'm going to extend the segment further since I won't be going for perfect minigames unless it would cost me time.

Quote:

Segment 2:
-I've said this earlier, but I wonder if it's faster to do all the Border Jump stuff HERE rather than later.

-That all depends on whether spending the time to do the minigame for Hee Beans is still worth it. I need to check for where the nearest Hoo Beans are.
-Even if the Hoo Beans aren't worth it, I think it may be worth it to check and see if the time I spent doing Border Cross was more than made up for in terms of Stats.
-Provided that Border Cross isn't going to be included for Beans, this segment will be extended as well.

Quote:

Segment 3:
-The first rotating blocks part probably wasn't as smoothly done as it could have been. Could have been just a brain fart, I dunno.
-Originally, I was not 100% sure why you hesitated on what I'm going to call the 'Bros. Coin Blocks'. I take it the controls hated you then?
-That wrong move near the end of the flag course near the Starshade Bros. HAD to be a brain fart. I refuse to accept the idea that it was a conscious mistake.
-Excellent place to end the segment in my opinion.

-Yup, Brain fart on who needed to jump first.
-The controls always hate me. Wink

But seriously it was just bad jump timing on my part. That last one sucked hard.
-Major Brain Fart and clumsiness on my part.
-I don't know what the hell I was thinking walking south after getting those last coins before the save. I could have just walked left to the save point.
-Provided Hoo Bean hoarding won't happen in the next one, this would be the end of Segment 1.
-Also, I hate unskippable Tutorials Angry

Quote:

Segment 4:
-No comments.

-Only one that I can think of...I think I'd extend that segment onto the Mountain.

Quote:

Segment 5:
-Why not switch to High Jump WHILE headed to the second flame guy you had to squirt water on instead of once you're already there?
-Excellent save choice in my opinion.

-Brain fart on the non-switch.
-This would be the end of Segment 2 next time.

Quote:

Segment 6:
-I wonder if making BOTH brothers use Bros. Attacks at once nearly ALL the time would make the fight with this boss go any faster. (Only use a standard Jump if it means re-exposing him - it looks like you use them a little early in a couple of places.) I'll test this again myself and find out for sure.
-I think you might have been able to have gotten that one whirlwind on the previous pass.
-Another good save location actually.

-2 reasons why I did it the way I did:
1) Killing the block results in one less attack per round to deal with (timewise and didge-wise).
2) Hoohooros can only be hit twice before switching locations. Mario did more damage per hit, so I focused on him getting the Bros. Attacks off while Luigi dealt with the blocks. This kept him exposed at all times instead of having a potential turn where I'd have to break both blocks again.
-I agree here...granted if I hadn't flubbed the controls while walking up there I wouldn't have had the problem in the first place.

Quote:

Segment 7:
-No comments.

-I don't think those Nuts were worth it overall. I'll double check when I get to the segment after the Queen fight, but I only got them for money.
-That bad switch after putting the rock fire out was kind of embarrasing.
-I could easily extend this segment.

Quote:

Segment 8:
-Surprisingly, no comments once again.

-I'm certain I could extend this segment as well.
-And once again, I hate unskippable Tutorials.

Quote:

Segment 9:
-I get the impression that waiting for that one enemy takes almost as long as fighting it would.
-I'd suggest cutting across the ground a little more.
-I fully agree that this save IS mission critical.

-With some luck that wouldn't have happened...I was also much to cautious since I probably could have just gone under it.
-Some ground cutting was avoided so I wouldn't have to deal with dodging enemies.

Quote:

Segment 10:
-I was trying to add things up to see if the Queen Bean fight could be done in fewer turns on the same beginning setup, but it doesn't look like it can.

-I think it could have been ended a few turns sooner if I had just attacked with Luigi before her arms grew back that last time. Mario dropped her on the next attack, but I'm not 100% sure Luigi could have. Worth checking into, though.
-I most certainly didn't need those Nuts I picked up...and I didn't need to buy anywhere near that many Syrups either.

Quote:

Segment 11:
-No comments.

-Actually suprised at the no comment on that one.
-That Chuckle Bean wasn't worth the trouble...especially since I sucked trying to get it.
-I'm thinking if extending this segment as well.

Quote:

Segment 12:
-Why oh WHY do they put an enemy in such a crappy spot?
-This is a fine save, but that's only because Wiggler's in the next part.

-I asked that more times than I could count.
-Command switching was rather lackluster IMO.

Quote:

Segment 13:
-Little sloppy on retrieving the last Chuckle Bean.
-Could you have set up the right mode for Chopper Bros. right before using Splash Bros. on Wiggler?
-You probably could have spent less time by fighting that one Shy Guy instead of trying to avoid him.
-Kinda looked a bit off right before getting the white fruit.
-Probably better off saving here at least.

-Stupid Bean...
-Don't think it matters all that much really.
-Easily, but I hadn't had anywhere near that much trouble with it in previous attempts. I probably could have just run quick right off the bat and gotten through as well.
-Bad control on my part.
-That Chuckle Bean is actually worthwhile...provided I don't screw up getting into the ground again.

Quote:

Segment 14:
-No special comments, although I actually appreciate the levelling luck you got here for once.

-Agreed on the levelling luck...too bad it was wasted on BP and wasn't ATK increases.

Quote:

Segment 15:
-What was with the third-to-last Beanstone? Did fatigue suddenly set in?
-I'd have suggested waiting to shop until you have the Bros. Rock badge in your possession, so you wouldn't have to make two trips. Also, I forgot to say it earlier but I'd suggest holding on to your mushrooms.

-That particular Beanstone has a rather odd location...it's probably the most precisely placed out of all 10 and doesn't always give much in the way of leeway. #5 gave some issues as well on occasion.
-Honestly, I shouldn't have even entered the shop...I didn't buy anything and it's not like my pack can get full or anything.

Quote:

Segment 16:
-I almost want to say you should have gotten the pipe at the end of last segment.
-I've mentioned potentially doing the Border Jump stuff very early already, I think. If you'd have done the Border Jump early I think you could have gotten the first drink blended at the end of last segment as well.
-If all the stuff I have mentioned here works this segment's eliminated altogether.

-Agreed. This segment shouldn't be here regardless of whether I do Border Cross for Beans. Pipe could have been activated on the way out of the castle to get the Beanstones.

Quote:

Segment 17:
-Now that I think of it, I'm not really sure getting 25 Hoo beans is worth it, the way they appear to be spaced out so much.
-Your handling of the oversize coin block is horrid in my opinion. May want to do a test attempt of the segment and figure them out. Unless there's no set pattern to the oversize ones.... I'll look at this again and make absolute certain.
-I'm not sure the 'back and forth' coin block is worthwhile.

-Still debating about the Hoo Beans. Research needed.
-The Oversize Coin Blocks are random on which Bro will need to jump next...I was just alternating so if it changed I'd get it right. All in all I don't think I should have even been bothering with them at all.
-I don't know what the hell possessed me to bother with the back and forth blocks.
-Honestly thinking of saving of ending the segment with Chuckolator / Beanstones at the entrance to the University, then making run through here one long segment.

Quote:

Segment 18:
-Better handling of this oversize coin block but still not very good-looking.

-Still shouldn't have bothered with it. Period.
-Can't believe I had another brain fart in the maze.
-I hate red Visuses.

Quote:

Segment 19:
-Nothing to question in this part, not even your choice to save here.

-Other than that poor control of switching commands for Luigi at the end, I agree.

Watching through the vids and editing this post as I watch each segment...check back every so often.

[quote]Segment 1: 
-It probably was just been a mind lapse, but stepping on the footprints for the camera first isn't necessary. 
-This is actually not a bad place to end the first segment.  I mean, you've done all the intro filler, so why do it again?[/quote]

-That was a mind lapse with the footprints.
-I actually think this next time I'm going to extend the segment further since I won't be going for perfect minigames unless it would cost me time.

[quote]Segment 2: 
-I've said this earlier, but I wonder if it's faster to do all the Border Jump stuff HERE rather than later. [/quote]

-That all depends on whether spending the time to do the minigame for Hee Beans is still worth it. I need to check for where the nearest Hoo Beans are.
-Even if the Hoo Beans aren't worth it, I think it may be worth it to check and see if the time I spent doing Border Cross was more than made up for in terms of Stats.
-Provided that Border Cross isn't going to be included for Beans, this segment will be extended as well.

[quote]Segment 3: 
-The first rotating blocks part probably wasn't as smoothly done as it could have been.  Could have been just a brain fart, I dunno. 
-Originally, I was not 100% sure why you hesitated on what I'm going to call the 'Bros. Coin Blocks'.  I take it the controls hated you then? 
-That wrong move near the end of the flag course near the Starshade Bros. HAD to be a brain fart.  I refuse to accept the idea that it was a conscious mistake. 
-Excellent place to end the segment in my opinion. [/quote]

-Yup, Brain fart on who needed to jump first.
-The controls always hate me.  ;) But seriously it was just bad jump timing on my part. That last one sucked hard.
-Major Brain Fart and clumsiness on my part.
-I don't know what the hell I was thinking walking south after getting those last coins before the save. I could have just walked left to the save point.
-Provided Hoo Bean hoarding won't happen in the next one, this would be the end of Segment 1.
-Also, I hate unskippable Tutorials  >:(

[quote]Segment 4: 
-No comments. [/quote]

-Only one that I can think of...I think I'd extend that segment onto the Mountain.

[quote]Segment 5: 
-Why not switch to High Jump WHILE headed to the second flame guy you had to squirt water on instead of once you're already there? 
-Excellent save choice in my opinion. [/quote]

-Brain fart on the non-switch.
-This would be the end of Segment 2 next time.

[quote]Segment 6: 
-I wonder if making BOTH brothers use Bros. Attacks at once nearly ALL the time would make the fight with this boss go any faster.  (Only use a standard Jump if it means re-exposing him - it looks like you use them a little early in a couple of places.)  I'll test this again myself and find out for sure. 
-I think you might have been able to have gotten that one whirlwind on the previous pass. 
-Another good save location actually.[/quote]

-2 reasons why I did it the way I did:
1) Killing the block results in one less attack per round to deal with (timewise and didge-wise).
2) Hoohooros can only be hit twice before switching locations. Mario did more damage per hit, so I focused on him getting the Bros. Attacks off while Luigi dealt with the blocks. This kept him exposed at all times instead of having a potential turn where I'd have to break both blocks again.
-I agree here...granted if I hadn't flubbed the controls while walking up there I wouldn't have had the problem in the first place.

[quote]Segment 7: 
-No comments.[/quote]

-I don't think those Nuts were worth it overall. I'll double check when I get to the segment after the Queen fight, but I only got them for money.
-That bad switch after putting the rock fire out was kind of embarrasing.
-I could easily extend this segment.

[quote]Segment 8: 
-Surprisingly, no comments once again. [/quote]

-I'm certain I could extend this segment as well.
-And once again, I hate unskippable Tutorials.

[quote]Segment 9: 
-I get the impression that waiting for that one enemy takes almost as long as fighting it would. 
-I'd suggest cutting across the ground a little more. 
-I fully agree that this save IS mission critical. [/quote]

-With some luck that wouldn't have happened...I was also much to cautious since I probably could have just gone under it.
-Some ground cutting was avoided so I wouldn't have to deal with dodging enemies.

[quote]Segment 10: 
-I was trying to add things up to see if the Queen Bean fight could be done in fewer turns on the same beginning setup, but it doesn't look like it can.[/quote]

-I think it could have been ended a few turns sooner if I had just attacked with Luigi before her arms grew back that last time. Mario dropped her on the next attack, but I'm not 100% sure Luigi could have. Worth checking into, though.
-I most certainly didn't need those Nuts I picked up...and I didn't need to buy anywhere near that many Syrups either.

[quote]Segment 11: 
-No comments. [/quote]

-Actually suprised at the no comment on that one.
-That Chuckle Bean wasn't worth the trouble...especially since I sucked trying to get it.
-I'm thinking if extending this segment as well.

[quote]Segment 12: 
-Why oh WHY do they put an enemy in such a crappy spot? 
-This is a fine save, but that's only because Wiggler's in the next part.[/quote]

-I asked that more times than I could count.
-Command switching was rather lackluster IMO.

[quote]Segment 13: 
-Little sloppy on retrieving the last Chuckle Bean. 
-Could you have set up the right mode for Chopper Bros. right before using Splash Bros. on Wiggler? 
-You probably could have spent less time by fighting that one Shy Guy instead of trying to avoid him. 
-Kinda looked a bit off right before getting the white fruit. 
-Probably better off saving here at least.[/quote]

-Stupid Bean...
-Don't think it matters all that much really.
-Easily, but I hadn't had anywhere near that much trouble with it in previous attempts. I probably could have just run quick right off the bat and gotten through as well.
-Bad control on my part.
-That Chuckle Bean is actually worthwhile...provided I don't screw up getting into the ground again.

[quote]Segment 14: 
-No special comments, although I actually appreciate the levelling luck you got here for once.[/quote]

-Agreed on the levelling luck...too bad it was wasted on BP and wasn't ATK increases.

[quote]Segment 15: 
-What was with the third-to-last Beanstone?  Did fatigue suddenly set in? 
-I'd have suggested waiting to shop until you have the Bros. Rock badge in your possession, so you wouldn't have to make two trips.  Also, I forgot to say it earlier but I'd suggest holding on to your mushrooms.[/quote]

-That particular Beanstone has a rather odd location...it's probably the most precisely placed out of all 10 and doesn't always give much in the way of leeway. #5 gave some issues as well on occasion.
-Honestly, I shouldn't have even entered the shop...I didn't buy anything and it's not like my pack can get full or anything.

[quote]Segment 16: 
-I almost want to say you should have gotten the pipe at the end of last segment. 
-I've mentioned potentially doing the Border Jump stuff very early already, I think. If you'd have done the Border Jump early I think you could have gotten the first drink blended at the end of last segment as well. 
-If all the stuff I have mentioned here works this segment's eliminated altogether.[/quote]

-Agreed. This segment shouldn't be here regardless of whether I do Border Cross for Beans. Pipe could have been activated on the way out of the castle to get the Beanstones.

[quote]Segment 17: 
-Now that I think of it, I'm not really sure getting 25 Hoo beans is worth it, the way they appear to be spaced out so much. 
-Your handling of the oversize coin block is horrid in my opinion.  May want to do a test attempt of the segment and figure them out.  Unless there's no set pattern to the oversize ones....  I'll look at this again and make absolute certain. 
-I'm not sure the 'back and forth' coin block is worthwhile.[/quote]

-Still debating about the Hoo Beans. Research needed.
-The Oversize Coin Blocks are random on which Bro will need to jump next...I was just alternating so if it changed I'd get it right. All in all I don't think I should have even been bothering with them at all.
-I don't know what the hell possessed me to bother with the back and forth blocks.
-Honestly thinking of saving of ending the segment with Chuckolator / Beanstones at the entrance to the University, then making run through here one long segment.

[quote]Segment 18: 
-Better handling of this oversize coin block but still not very good-looking.[/quote]

-Still shouldn't have bothered with it. Period.
-Can't believe I had another brain fart in the maze.
-I hate red Visuses.

[quote]Segment 19: 
-Nothing to question in this part, not even your choice to save here.[/quote]

-Other than that poor control of switching commands for Luigi at the end, I agree.

Dragondarch

Edit history:

Dragondarch: 2006-02-17 03:04:35 pm

2006-02-17 01:43:07 pm

Pudding%

Stupid "Message too long errors"

Quote:

Segment 20:
-A good fight against Cackletta - especially that use of Bounce Bros. Advance. Also, you're right in calling BS on the shadow-size thing - it looks like each size of shadow was the real one once in that fight.
-I just realized - is there a way to manipulate it so you always deal an odd amount of damage to Cackletta? I've heard there's a pattern - if you deal an odd amount of damage in a round she'll use the lightning attack, but if you deal an even amount of damage she'll use her cloning move.
-A good save for anyone but the insane, actually.

-The even/odd thing is a possiblilty. You'll notice that when I used Bounce Bros. Advance that Mario hit the real one for 2 damage, and she immediately split again. The only issue is that Chopper Bros. isn't too friendly in terms of doing a specific amount of damage. I'd have to see whether Splash Bros. could be used without a major damage loss.
-That save was mostly there because I was at the end of the tape Tongue

Quote:

Segment 21:
-No comments - you might think I'm insane saying that right before a boss, but it really depends on whether the save at the end of segment 20 was actually used or not.

-I'm thinking if it weren't for the fact that I was at the end of the tape after the Cackletta fight, I could have extended the segment to just outside the main door before Popple/Rookie...mind you I'd save BEFORE opening the door.

Quote:

Segment 22:
-I wonder if it's possible to beat Rookie before the Piledriver Bros. attack?

-Probably with higher attack power it is, though I'm not sure if it's a damage or turn-based trigger for them to use it.
-Embarrassing wrong turn in the Fire Temple.

Quote:

Segment 23:
-Somewhat sloppy handling of the retrieval of the Chuckle Bean.
-The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.
-Is waiting that long to avoid a fight really worth it?

-Shouldn't have bothered with it anyway...a it too remote.
-Which place are you referring to here? If you mean the skipping the Chuckle Bean then I agree, but I didn't see anything else.
-It is when the enemy cooperates early...Should have restarted for that one...granted it wasn't as long as a few others.

Quote:

Segment 24:
-Handle the middle one LAST so you can jump right into battle with the mother Piranha. I don't know if it's actually faster, but it LOOKS like it could be by a second or two.
-Make sure to get the electricity right on the FIRST pass.
-Good place to save, I think.

-Honestly, I didn't actually mean to make the save that started this segment. It should have been part of the previous one.
-Don't think it saves that much really.
-I should have been collecting the Chuckle Beans here. I think there's 15 total on the airstrip itself (I guarantee there's at least 10). Would have saved me from bothering with all those ones that were semi-out of the way.

Quote:

Segment 25:
-Good avoiding of the front Piranhas.
-Remember to exit those menus CLEANLY.... not after a botch or two.
-Selling the blended coffees after you get them is probably a good idea, especially since you have the #1 Trousers at this point in time and therefore don't need a speed boost (which the Chuckle Blend gives).
-The dodging looks like it could have been done without resetting the Lakitu-esque monster's position.
-Saving there was good, if only because the next part is so absurdly LONG.

-I don't know why I used it instead of selling it, honestly.
-That Lakitu is a bitch. If I didn't reset the position, he would have thrown one directly on top of me. Resetting it allowed me to predict where everything was going to land.

Quote:

Segment 26:
-I think overall this segment went well enough. I'm not even commenting on your levelups here, because there's enough of them that redoing a segment for just a few more points, when it's pseudorandom the way it is, is nonsense, nor will I comment on your choice of save, because I wouldn't want to do that minigame again either.
-Okay, there's ONE thing I want to comment on. Wouldn't it be better to start battles here by getting a first strike with the hammer?

-I think I had tried starting the battles with the Hammer, but it wasn't working even when I did it right. I'd just enter the battle normally. I'd need to double check, but I'm pretty sure that's why.
-I think in that last room, I could have bee-lined for the first goomba, then did the platform jumping while the Princess was heading left, instead of going all the way over there and killing that one enemy, then going all the way back.

Quote:

Segment 27:
-Make sure to end ANY use of Chopper Bros. Advance with a MISS rather than let Luigi carry Mario back - I can almost guarantee the miss is faster.
-I know you mentioned this one already in your comments, but keep the number of hits with Chopper Bros. Advance to five - I think that after five hits, the damage has lowered so much that it's not worth continuing the attack.
-Knowing what you're going to get in the levelups for a segment before doing the segment might save time. Since there's three levelups per character here, that's the only comment I'm going to make about your levelups.
-I also realize you mentioned this one, but getting the pipe here now is important for later.
-After a long segment like that a save is a smart idea.

-It's only faster by a second, maybe 1.5.
-I could have also attacked the Tree on top of it's head...though I'm not sue what kind of damage I would have been doing.
-I can't believe the number of wrong turns I made in Lil' Fungitown.
-Should have bought Mush Badges right now.

Quote:

Segment 28:
-The pillars part was handled quite well.
-The inside was a little rough, but I don't think those accidental miscues add up to more than five seconds.
-Considering the length of the next segment, I don't think it's BAD that you saved here, although I wonder what save point could have been better.

-The pillars are annoying.
-Those enemies are annoying too. All of them.
-I'll look into this.

Quote:

Segment 29:
-I would have suggested using the Spin Jump to get on the boat instead of trying to get the normal jump to be perfect. Maybe it's just the two misses that makes me think that way.
-The minigame here was decent, and I realize it's not crucial to get higher than 10 rows, but this one went slow in my opinion.

-I had never missed that jump prior to that attempt...I'm not quite sure what the hell happened.
-I hate that minigame with a passion. I was willing to accept anything that got 10+ just so I wouldn't have to do it again.
-I also can't believe that I forgot the trigger for getting the loose floorboards to appear on the floor above Bloat.

I'm taking a break...I'm hungry.

Stupid "Message too long errors"

[quote]Segment 20: 
-A good fight against Cackletta - especially that use of Bounce Bros. Advance. Also, you're right in calling BS on the shadow-size thing - it looks like each size of shadow was the real one once in that fight. 
-I just realized - is there a way to manipulate it so you always deal an odd amount of damage to Cackletta?  I've heard there's a pattern - if you deal an odd amount of damage in a round she'll use the lightning attack, but if you deal an even amount of damage she'll use her cloning move. 
-A good save for anyone but the insane, actually.[/quote]

-The even/odd thing is a possiblilty. You'll notice that when I used Bounce Bros. Advance that Mario hit the real one for 2 damage, and she immediately split again. The only issue is that Chopper Bros. isn't too friendly in terms of doing a specific amount of damage. I'd have to see whether Splash Bros. could be used without a major damage loss.
-That save was mostly there because I was at the end of the tape  :P

[quote]Segment 21: 
-No comments - you might think I'm insane saying that right before a boss, but it really depends on whether the save at the end of segment 20 was actually used or not. [/quote]

-I'm thinking if it weren't for the fact that I was at the end of the tape after the Cackletta fight, I could have extended the segment to just outside the main door before Popple/Rookie...mind you I'd save BEFORE opening the door.

[quote]Segment 22: 
-I wonder if it's possible to beat Rookie before the Piledriver Bros. attack?[/quote]

-Probably with higher attack power it is, though I'm not sure if it's a damage or turn-based trigger for them to use it.
-Embarrassing wrong turn in the Fire Temple.

[quote]Segment 23: 
-Somewhat sloppy handling of the retrieval of the Chuckle Bean. 
-The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. 
-Is waiting that long to avoid a fight really worth it?[/quote]

-Shouldn't have bothered with it anyway...a it too remote.
-Which place are you referring to here? If you mean the skipping the Chuckle Bean then I agree, but I didn't see anything else.
-It is when the enemy cooperates early...Should have restarted for that one...granted it wasn't as long as a few others.

[quote]Segment 24: 
-Handle the middle one LAST so you can jump right into battle with the mother Piranha.  I don't know if it's actually faster, but it LOOKS like it could be by a second or two. 
-Make sure to get the electricity right on the FIRST pass. 
-Good place to save, I think.[/quote]

-Honestly, I didn't actually mean to make the save that started this segment. It should have been part of the previous one.
-Don't think it saves that much really.
-I should have been collecting the Chuckle Beans here. I think there's 15 total on the airstrip itself (I guarantee there's at least 10). Would have saved me from bothering with all those ones that were semi-out of the way.

[quote]Segment 25: 
-Good avoiding of the front Piranhas. 
-Remember to exit those menus CLEANLY.... not after a botch or two. 
-Selling the blended coffees after you get them is probably a good idea, especially since you have the #1 Trousers at this point in time and therefore don't need a speed boost (which the Chuckle Blend gives). 
-The dodging looks like it could have been done without resetting the Lakitu-esque monster's position. 
-Saving there was good, if only because the next part is so absurdly LONG.[/quote]

-I don't know why I used it instead of selling it, honestly.
-That Lakitu is a bitch. If I didn't reset the position, he would have thrown one directly on top of me. Resetting it allowed me to predict where everything was going to land.

[quote]Segment 26: 
-I think overall this segment went well enough.  I'm not even commenting on your levelups here, because there's enough of them that redoing a segment for just a few more points, when it's pseudorandom the way it is, is nonsense, nor will I comment on your choice of save, because I wouldn't want to do that minigame again either. 
-Okay, there's ONE thing I want to comment on.  Wouldn't it be better to start battles here by getting a first strike with the hammer?[/quote]

-I think I had tried starting the battles with the Hammer, but it wasn't working even when I did it right. I'd just enter the battle normally. I'd need to double check, but I'm pretty sure that's why.
-I think in that last room, I could have bee-lined for the first goomba, then did the platform jumping while the Princess was heading left, instead of going all the way over there and killing that one enemy, then going all the way back.

[quote]Segment 27: 
-Make sure to end ANY use of Chopper Bros. Advance with a MISS rather than let Luigi carry Mario back - I can almost guarantee the miss is faster. 
-I know you mentioned this one already in your comments, but keep the number of hits with Chopper Bros. Advance to five - I think that after five hits, the damage has lowered so much that it's not worth continuing the attack. 
-Knowing what you're going to get in the levelups for a segment before doing the segment might save time.  Since there's three levelups per character here, that's the only comment I'm going to make about your levelups. 
-I also realize you mentioned this one, but getting the pipe here now is important for later. 
-After a long segment like that a save is a smart idea.[/quote]

-It's only faster by a second, maybe 1.5.
-I could have also attacked the Tree on top of it's head...though I'm not sue what kind of damage I would have been doing.
-I can't believe the number of wrong turns I made in Lil' Fungitown.
-Should have bought Mush Badges right now.

[quote]Segment 28: 
-The pillars part was handled quite well. 
-The inside was a little rough, but I don't think those accidental miscues add up to more than five seconds. 
-Considering the length of the next segment, I don't think it's BAD that you saved here, although I wonder what save point could have been better.[/quote]

-The pillars are annoying.
-Those enemies are annoying too. All of them.
-I'll look into this.

[quote]Segment 29: 
-I would have suggested using the Spin Jump to get on the boat instead of trying to get the normal jump to be perfect.  Maybe it's just the two misses that makes me think that way. 
-The minigame here was decent, and I realize it's not crucial to get higher than 10 rows, but this one went slow in my opinion.[/quote]

-I had never missed that jump prior to that attempt...I'm not quite sure what the hell happened.
-I hate that minigame with a passion. I was willing to accept anything that got 10+ just so I wouldn't have to do it again.
-I also can't believe that I forgot the trigger for getting the loose floorboards to appear on the floor above Bloat.

I'm taking a break...I'm hungry.

AquaTiger

2006-02-26 04:54:41 am

Never give up!

Hmmm....

I want to inform people that I am still going to give the comments on the last few parts and make my attempts at this.... I just haven't had the chance since I've been away the past 3 days.

There is one thing I thought about in those past few days..... would obtaining Swing Bros. or Cyclone Bros. be faster by any means? I mean, they're not that far off the path, and there's a save point very close by..... plus both moves are quite powerful.

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2006-02-26 09:39:45 pm

2006-02-26 09:37:35 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

Guess I'll be knocking this further up the queue Wink

OMG, if you move this up past Lufia 2 or Ogre Battle I vill keeel you! Sad

Edit: Wait, it looks like you already did. I don't know how we can still be friends!!

Seriously though, I think it'd be a good idea to do Lufia 2 before BoF 1 to better complement DTK's Lufia 1.

KennyMan666

2006-02-27 12:54:00 pm

Precursor

I was thinking about the first Cackletta fight, in which she clones... maybe it just happened by chance and was just pure luck, but every time she cloned when I fought her, the pointer ALWAYS was on the correct one when I had selected my attack.

Dragondarch

2006-02-27 01:23:40 pm

Pudding%

Enhasa: Whoops! I didn't mean to put BoF1 before Lufia 2. Sloppy Cut/Paste on my Part there. Will fix ASAP. Superstar Saga, however, is supposed to be bumped up to 2nd on my list, though.

KennyMan: I remember it always just targetted the leftmost one regardless. I'll double check, but I think the even/odd idea may have merit.

I'll get around to criticizing the rest of the segments on my next days off (Weds/Thurs).

AquaTiger

2006-03-08 01:23:53 pm

Never give up!

Really sorry about the wait on this.... I promise I will resume focusing mainly on this one after a couple of single-segment runs I plan to do over spring break.

Anyway, I'll be continuing the segment comments today.

Segment 30:
-Another brain fart where you had to hammer Mario to get him through, I assume?
-Your handling of the second Boo statue is a bit suspect.

Segment 31:
-You know, I'm not sure how the game manages to recognize that you're going for time and adjusts its monster locations accordingly. I say this because of the Koopa-esque enemy after the first Heavy Troopa you knock over in this segment, as well as the one Koopa-esque enemy right after the grinder/crushers.

Segment 32:
-Nothing to say here, other than the fact that a lot of minor stuff might have been a bit roughly handled.

Segment 33:
-Even though I'm aware there's a reason for it, there seems to be a lot of stop-go-stop-go in this segment.

I'll have to get to later segments at a different point in the day, as I must go to work, and then after work I gotta head to the post office.

Really sorry about the wait on this.... I promise I will resume focusing mainly on this one after a couple of single-segment runs I plan to do over spring break.

Anyway, I'll be continuing the segment comments today.

Segment 30:
-Another brain fart where you had to hammer Mario to get him through, I assume?
-Your handling of the second Boo statue is a bit suspect.

Segment 31:
-You know, I'm not sure how the game manages to recognize that you're going for time and adjusts its monster locations accordingly.  I say this because of the Koopa-esque enemy after the first Heavy Troopa you knock over in this segment, as well as the one Koopa-esque enemy right after the grinder/crushers.

Segment 32:
-Nothing to say here, other than the fact that a lot of minor stuff might have been a bit roughly handled.

Segment 33:
-Even though I'm aware there's a reason for it, there seems to be a lot of stop-go-stop-go in this segment.

I'll have to get to later segments at a different point in the day, as I must go to work, and then after work I gotta head to the post office.

Dragondarch

Edit history:

Dragondarch: 2006-03-16 10:47:40 am

2006-03-16 06:55:48 am

Pudding%

On with more watching.

Quote:

Segment 30:
-Another brain fart where you had to hammer Mario to get him through, I assume?
-Your handling of the second Boo statue is a bit suspect.

-Yes.
-Why I entered the pipe early when I needed to enter it later...I just don't know.
-Not just a bit suspect...it was just plain sloppy.
-I don't think I needed the save here...or possibly could have extended the last segment to this point.

Quote:

Segment 31:
-You know, I'm not sure how the game manages to recognize that you're going for time and adjusts its monster locations accordingly. I say this because of the Koopa-esque enemy after the first Heavy Troopa you knock over in this segment, as well as the one Koopa-esque enemy right after the grinder/crushers.

-Yeah, those suck, period. I think I could have gotten around them without waiting though.
-I was a little slow on getting that first flame run off in the last switch area (with 20 seconds and 3 switches)

Quote:

Segment 32:
-Nothing to say here, other than the fact that a lot of minor stuff might have been a bit roughly handled.

-I didn't need to perform the full Thunder Bros. attack. Stopping one press earlier would have resulted in more damage on the main target.
-I should have made sure Luigi went first.
-More Level Bonus hesitation...and both of them ended up sucking badly.
-I had no need for those items near the giant Turtle.
-I never really did like that reflector game. It could have looked a little better, though.

Quote:

Segment 33:
-Even though I'm aware there's a reason for it, there seems to be a lot of stop-go-stop-go in this segment.

-A lot of the stop and go motion wasn't necessary. There was only like one place it was worth it to check enemy postion.
-Again, I shouldn't have done the entire Thunder Bros. combo.
-More Level Bonus hesitation...and they sucked as well.
-I think there's a closer pipe to the Splart area.
-I could have waited until I was actually heading to the Yoshi Theater to grab that Bean Fruit...plus I also missed the location too many times.

Segment 34:
-I really wish they didn't make me go through the damn tutorial for this...
-I didn't see much room for improvement here...I hate this damn mini-game with a passion though.

Segment 35:
-A lot of hesitation with that flying Bean. I think I could have gotten around it without waiting.
-Again with the early pipe entering.
-I really didn't need to end the segment here...

Segment 36:
-I think it would have been better to save the Bean Fruit near Teehee Valley for now, rather than getting it before.
-Again, I don't think I needed this save.

Segment 37:
-The Piranha Plant fight would have gone faster if I hadn't been taking so many BP Bonuses.
-I doubt I needed to take the slower way to get past all those Goomba-coons.

Segment 38:
-I would have been better off with Mush Badges from Lil' Fungitown, rather than what I bought here...I could have bought more Mushrooms if I needed them instead.
-I think I could have gotten up that staircase faster if I had used the Fire Dash.

Segment 39:
-I found no way around that Blue Slime that wasn't extremely time consuming.
-That room reset was so the Snifit wouldn't spit...those suck royally to dodge.
-I think I could have easily extended this segment.

Segment 40:
-I hate how those blocks don't always activate even if it looks like I hit them at the exact same time.
-I hate that Block mini-game.

Segment 41:
-Wayyyy too timid around that first Paratroopa. I think I could have gotten by without moving back like that.
-It actualy shocked me when I got through the room after lighting the Stove without a fight...I was actually allowing one fight in there since those 2 Paratoppas almost always got me.
-I think I'd keep this segment separate from the rest of Joke's End on the sole principle of dodging those Paratroopas.

Segment 42:
-Mario wasn't doing enough damage here...I really should have bought him a new badge in Bean Town...or better yet, the Mush Badges.
-I have to wonder what causes Chucklissa to change hair color. Her defense increases and Mario's damage was further reduced. Maybe there's a was to keep her from doing it period?
-More Level Bonus hesitation...at least they didn't suck as badly as some others.

Segment 43:
-I should have made sure Luigi went first for the Thunder Bros. Defense down effect.
-I also shouldn't have finished the combo again since damage to Popple doesn't matter at all.
-Crappy Level Bonuses on an easy fight that could have been repeated for better.
-I certainly didn't need those Syrups...I could have used the money for better Mush Badges, Mushrooms, and the Scandal Jeans for Luigi.
-Grabbing that item at the entrance of Bowser's Castle was worthless.

Segment 44:
-I could have easily combined this with the last segment.

Segment 45:
-That pause before moving after Iggy made them dizzy was to determine which was I needed to turn the controller to make things normal.
-Took long enough to learn Knockback Bros. Advance...

Segment 46:
-This could have been combined with the Iggy fight pretty easily.

Segment 47:
-That hesitation wasn't completely necessary near the Snifit on the stairs...ut I didn't want to end up in a fight.

Segment 48:
-I should have reset each time I missed the real Lemmy.
-Why oh why did I take BP at this point...

Segment 49:
-I hate that last Mechakoopa you have to hit. I think this was reason enough to make this it's own segment.

Segment 50:
-Huh...I can't much wrong with this one.

Segment 51:
-As if I screwed up the crusher room like that.

Segment 52:
-Gotta love when a boss dies without even getting to move Wink

Segment 53:
-I seriously didn't need to keep up the Knockback Bros. attack like that...
-I hate the fact that the Magikoopa that's near the door can sometimes be directly underneat me when I warp back there after dropping Larry.
-I didn't need those items before the save.

Segment 54:
-I don't think the Fawful fight could have gone any better, really...except the level bonuses anyway.
-Again, I didn't need those items before the save.

Segment 55:
-I really wish Luigi had gone first against Bowletta.
-With enough attack power, I could take the head down with Mario, and do a Bounce Bros. Advance and take out both hands at once.
-I had to keep those chains up that long due to needing to do large amounts of damage per attack, since the Heart is only exposed for 2 full rounds.
-I completely forgot that there was a little more to do after dropping Cackletta...

On with more watching.

[quote]Segment 30: 
-Another brain fart where you had to hammer Mario to get him through, I assume? 
-Your handling of the second Boo statue is a bit suspect.[/quote]

-Yes.
-Why I entered the pipe early when I needed to enter it later...I just don't know.
-Not just a bit suspect...it was just plain sloppy.
-I don't think I needed the save here...or possibly could have extended the last segment to this point.

[quote]Segment 31: 
-You know, I'm not sure how the game manages to recognize that you're going for time and adjusts its monster locations accordingly.  I say this because of the Koopa-esque enemy after the first Heavy Troopa you knock over in this segment, as well as the one Koopa-esque enemy right after the grinder/crushers.[/quote]

-Yeah, those suck, period. I think I could have gotten around them without waiting though.
-I was a little slow on getting that first flame run off in the last switch area (with 20 seconds and 3 switches)

[quote]Segment 32: 
-Nothing to say here, other than the fact that a lot of minor stuff might have been a bit roughly handled.[/quote]

-I didn't need to perform the full Thunder Bros. attack. Stopping one press earlier would have resulted in more damage on the main target.
-I should have made sure Luigi went first.
-More Level Bonus hesitation...and both of them ended up sucking badly.
-I had no need for those items near the giant Turtle.
-I never really did like that reflector game. It could have looked a little better, though.

[quote]Segment 33: 
-Even though I'm aware there's a reason for it, there seems to be a lot of stop-go-stop-go in this segment.[/quote]

-A lot of the stop and go motion wasn't necessary. There was only like one place it was worth it to check enemy postion.
-Again, I shouldn't have done the entire Thunder Bros. combo.
-More Level Bonus hesitation...and they sucked as well.
-I think there's a closer pipe to the Splart area.
-I could have waited until I was actually heading to the Yoshi Theater to grab that Bean Fruit...plus I also missed the location too many times.

[b]Segment 34[/b]:
-I really wish they didn't make me go through the damn tutorial for this...
-I didn't see much room for improvement here...I hate this damn mini-game with a passion though.

[b]Segment 35[/b]:
-A lot of hesitation with that flying Bean. I think I could have gotten around it without waiting.
-Again with the early pipe entering.
-I really didn't need to end the segment here...

[b]Segment 36[/b]:
-I think it would have been better to save the Bean Fruit near Teehee Valley for now, rather than getting it before.
-Again, I don't think I needed this save.

[b]Segment 37[/b]:
-The Piranha Plant fight would have gone faster if I hadn't been taking so many BP Bonuses.
-I doubt I needed to take the slower way to get past all those Goomba-coons.

[b]Segment 38[/b]:
-I would have been better off with Mush Badges from Lil' Fungitown, rather than what I bought here...I could have bought more Mushrooms if I needed them instead.
-I think I could have gotten up that staircase faster if I had used the Fire Dash.

[b]Segment 39[/b]:
-I found no way around that Blue Slime that wasn't extremely time consuming.
-That room reset was so the Snifit wouldn't spit...those suck royally to dodge.
-I think I could have easily extended this segment.

[b]Segment 40[/b]:
-I hate how those blocks don't always activate even if it looks like I hit them at the exact same time.
-I hate that Block mini-game.

[b]Segment 41[/b]:
-Wayyyy too timid around that first Paratroopa. I think I could have gotten by without moving back like that.
-It actualy shocked me when I got through the room after lighting the Stove without a fight...I was actually allowing one fight in there since those 2 Paratoppas almost always got me.
-I think I'd keep this segment separate from the rest of Joke's End on the sole principle of dodging those Paratroopas.

[b]Segment 42[/b]:
-Mario wasn't doing enough damage here...I [i]really[/i] should have bought him a new badge in Bean Town...or better yet, the Mush Badges.
-I have to wonder what causes Chucklissa to change hair color. Her defense increases and Mario's damage was further reduced. Maybe there's a was to keep her from doing it period?
-More Level Bonus hesitation...at least they didn't suck [i]as badly[/i] as some others.

[b]Segment 43[/b]:
-I should have made sure Luigi went first for the Thunder Bros. Defense down effect.
-I also shouldn't have finished the combo again since damage to Popple doesn't matter at all.
-Crappy Level Bonuses on an easy fight that could have been repeated for better.
-I certainly didn't need those Syrups...I could have used the money for better Mush Badges, Mushrooms, and the Scandal Jeans for Luigi.
-Grabbing that item at the entrance of Bowser's Castle was worthless.

[b]Segment 44[/b]:
-I could have easily combined this with the last segment.

[b]Segment 45[/b]:
-That pause before moving after Iggy made them dizzy was to determine which was I needed to turn the controller to make things normal.
-Took long enough to learn Knockback Bros. Advance...

[b]Segment 46[/b]:
-This could have been combined with the Iggy fight pretty easily.

[b]Segment 47[/b]:
-That hesitation wasn't [i]completely[/i] necessary near the Snifit on the stairs...ut I didn't want to end up in a fight.

[b]Segment 48[/b]:
-I should have reset each time I missed the real Lemmy.
-Why oh why did I take BP at this point...

[b]Segment 49[/b]:
-I hate that last Mechakoopa you have to hit. I think this was reason enough to make this it's own segment.

[b]Segment 50[/b]:
-Huh...I can't much wrong with this one.

[b]Segment 51[/b]:
-As if I screwed up the crusher room like that.

[b]Segment 52[/b]:
-Gotta love when a boss dies without even getting to move  ;)

[b]Segment 53[/b]:
-I seriously didn't need to keep up the Knockback Bros. attack like that...
-I hate the fact that the Magikoopa that's near the door can sometimes be directly underneat me when I warp back there after dropping Larry.
-I didn't need those items before the save.

[b]Segment 54[/b]:
-I don't think the Fawful fight could have gone any better, really...except the level bonuses anyway.
-Again, I didn't need those items before the save.

[b]Segment 55[/b]:
-I really wish Luigi had gone first against Bowletta.
-With enough attack power, I could take the head down with Mario, and do a Bounce Bros. Advance and take out both hands at once.
-I had to keep those chains up that long due to needing to do large amounts of damage per attack, since the Heart is only exposed for 2 full rounds.
-I completely forgot that there was a little more to do after dropping Cackletta...

...

2006-03-16 03:15:36 pm

Quote:

-I don't think the Fawful fight could have gone any better, really...except the level bonuses anyway.

As Fawful would have put it: Now is the time you listen, you idiot of foolishness! Tongue

In all honesty, the Fawful battle was the one thing that really made me go "WTF is he doing?" More specifically, why do you jump on him when he is in his “tank”? A normal Chopper Bros. attack finishes that part of the battle in one round. Using this simple method you could easily cut about 1/3 of your time on him.

Dragondarch

2006-03-17 02:22:50 pm

Pudding%

Huh...I hadn't even though of that. It makes sense now that I think about it, though.

Did some testing with the Mush Badges to see what kind of damage increase I'd be getting. It seems to be:

.2 POW for every Mushroom/Super Mushroom
.25 POW for every Ultra Mushroom
.3 POW for every Max Mushroom
1-Up Mushrooms/1-Up Supers and Golden Mushrooms don't seem to add anything at all.

There seems to be some discrepencies on whether it gives the extra point sometimes - such as having 5 Mushrooms alone doesn't yield an increase at all, but having 6 increases it by 1. So I have to believe that there's one subtraction being done somewhere for some reason - mostly because this non-increase problem only comes up when the increase is a whole number.
With the Max Mushrooms, having 3 gives nothing, 4 gives +1, 7 gives +2, and 10 also gives +2, but 11 gives +3. At .3 per Max, it should have been exactly +3 at 10.
Also, this little occurance doesn't happen with the Ultra Mushrooms at all. They give increases for every 4.

With 99 each of Mushrooms/Supers/Ultras/Maxes it adds 93 POW. If you add the max bonus together for each type it only grants 91, and if you add everything together it comes out to 94 (94.05 actually)...so I'm not exactly sure how much subtraction is being done, or where in the equation it is for that matter. But what I have is a good generalization.

Now for something even better:
The damage increase is done AFTER the initial damage is calculated. What I mean is that for an attack such as Chopper Bros. the damage be reduced as if you didn't have the Mush Badge at all.
The only exception I found to this when an enemy is completely resistant to a type of attack (1 damage no matter what). Other than that, I kept testing on enemies that had partial resistance to an attack type (Chopper Bros. was used for sheer number of quick hits).
The main test was done on Boos in Bowser's Castle, which are highly resistant to Chopper Bros.
No Mushrooms of any kind: 3 Initial damage, 1 for every swing after.
99 of all Mushrooms: 96 Initial damage, 94 for every hit thereafter.

Also tested some for Chopper Bros. Advance and Knockback Bros. Advance and ended up with the same results.

Conclusion: The Mush Badges essentially set the minimum damage to equal the bonus from your Mushrooms.
This also makes the Hammer Bros. Advance moves the most powerful in the game since their damage drops off quickly per hit.
Example: During the final Cackletta fight if I had the Mush Badges, instead of the 2 and 4 damage I was doing with the later hits of Chopper/Knockback, I would be doing lets say, 50 damage (unsure of how many Mushrooms I'd have to work with). 1200 damage wouldn't be that hard to do between Mario and Luigi in one round.

The other thing this does is obsolete the Swing/Cyclone Bros. While they do some nice hits, they can't get anywhere near as many as Chopper/Knockback Advance.
(Well, Swing Bros. might be useful for that one fight before reaching Lil' Fungitown, but I think Cyclone Bros. would be too little too late)

Huh...I hadn't even though of that. It makes sense now that I think about it, though.

Did some testing with the Mush Badges to see what kind of damage increase I'd be getting. It seems to be:

.2 POW for every Mushroom/Super Mushroom
.25 POW for every Ultra Mushroom
.3 POW for every Max Mushroom
1-Up Mushrooms/1-Up Supers and Golden Mushrooms don't seem to add anything at all.

There seems to be some discrepencies on whether it gives the extra point sometimes - such as having 5 Mushrooms alone doesn't yield an increase at all, but having 6 increases it by 1. So I have to believe that there's one subtraction being done somewhere for some reason - mostly because this non-increase problem only comes up when the increase is a whole number.
With the Max Mushrooms, having 3 gives nothing, 4 gives +1, 7 gives +2, and 10 also gives +2, but 11 gives +3. At .3 per Max, it should have been exactly +3 at 10.
Also, this little occurance doesn't happen with the Ultra Mushrooms at all. They give increases for every 4.

With 99 each of Mushrooms/Supers/Ultras/Maxes it adds 93 POW. If you add the max bonus together for each type it only grants 91, and if you add everything together it comes out to 94 (94.05 actually)...so I'm not exactly sure how much subtraction is being done, or where in the equation it is for that matter. But what I have is a good generalization.

Now for something even better:
The damage increase is done AFTER the initial damage is calculated. What I mean is that for an attack such as Chopper Bros. the damage be reduced as if you didn't have the Mush Badge at all.
The only exception I found to this when an enemy is completely resistant to a type of attack (1 damage no matter what). Other than that, I kept testing on enemies that had partial resistance to an attack type (Chopper Bros. was used for sheer number of quick hits).
The main test was done on Boos in Bowser's Castle, which are highly resistant to Chopper Bros.
No Mushrooms of any kind: 3 Initial damage, 1 for every swing after.
99 of all Mushrooms: 96 Initial damage, 94 for every hit thereafter.

Also tested some for Chopper Bros. Advance and Knockback Bros. Advance and ended up with the same results.

Conclusion: The Mush Badges essentially set the minimum damage to equal the bonus from your Mushrooms.
This also makes the Hammer Bros. Advance moves the most powerful in the game since their damage drops off quickly per hit.
Example: During the final Cackletta fight if I had the Mush Badges, instead of the 2 and 4 damage I was doing with the later hits of Chopper/Knockback, I would be doing lets say, 50 damage (unsure of how many Mushrooms I'd have to work with). 1200 damage wouldn't be that hard to do between Mario and Luigi in one round.

The other thing this does is obsolete the Swing/Cyclone Bros. While they do some nice hits, they can't get anywhere near as many as Chopper/Knockback Advance.
(Well, Swing Bros. might be useful for that one fight before reaching Lil' Fungitown, but I think Cyclone Bros. would be too little too late)

Yoshi348

2006-03-17 11:39:53 pm

dinosaur from the past

Sounds like your discrepancies are caused by crappy rounding, or it's actually something like .195 or something.

Floogal

2006-08-23 10:01:21 am

Well, let me be the first to compliment (in this thread, anyways) Dragondarch on his latest run at this game. It definitely is a much smoother run.

I don't know if you planned for it from the start, but learning advanced Knockback Brothers one round before you needed it was truly excellent timing. I also loved that trick with Cackletta's heart.

As for the bonus games.... Well, entertainment should be the next goal after speed is attained. But, as you said, your performances could still be viewed as entertainment. Regardless, I personally don't care, and I would have fast-forwarded past the dull barrel game either way.

My only question is why you didn't equip the Spiky Badge from the Moma Piranha fight, as it provides a good attack boost. I'm guessing that it wasn't enough to be worth it.

Still, a great and entertaining run!

getter77

2006-08-23 01:17:28 pm

100% runs=great to watch

Yep I had fun watching the run. The Power of the Mush Badge COMPELS YOU!!

Saving this run on my crying HD for a friend to watch who'll really get a kick outta it.

Yoshi348

2006-08-23 05:34:58 pm

dinosaur from the past

One thing I saw that I'm not sure you noticed is that during the Fungitown arcade game, you get a bonus second added to the timer each time you put a star in. Now this is almost impossible to avoid when you're trying to reach the goal, but since you kept playing afterwards you added about 8-15 more seconds to the game and to the run.

Dragondarch

Edit history:

Dragondarch: 2006-08-23 09:18:56 pm

2006-08-23 09:18:25 pm

Pudding%

Quote:

One thing I saw that I'm not sure you noticed is that during the Fungitown arcade game, you get a bonus second added to the timer each time you put a star in. Now this is almost impossible to avoid when you're trying to reach the goal, but since you kept playing afterwards you added about 8-15 more seconds to the game and to the run.

Yeah, I actually noticed this AFTER I had finished recording the segment (noticed it during playback). If this had been ANY other segment, I may have redone it, but this one happened to be the only 20+ minute segment and I was sick of re-doing it.

Quote:

Floogal: I don't know if you planned for it from the start, but learning advanced Knockback Brothers one round before you needed it was truly excellent timing.

I actually HADN'T directly planned it from the start, but pretty much knew it wouldn't be until very late. I didn't get around to figuring out just when each Bro learned the advance version until the segment before Hermie III, and was hoping to get it on the last shot in the Fawful fight. I had to change that when things weren't going entirely as planned in Bowser's Castle, but thankfully, I didn't lose time from it.

[quote]One thing I saw that I'm not sure you noticed is that during the Fungitown arcade game, you get a bonus second added to the timer each time you put a star in. Now this is almost impossible to avoid when you're trying to reach the goal, but  since you kept playing afterwards you added about 8-15 more seconds to the game and to the run.[/quote]

Yeah, I actually noticed this AFTER I had finished recording the segment (noticed it during playback). If this had been ANY other segment, I may have redone it, but this one happened to be the only 20+ minute segment and I was sick of re-doing it.

[quote][b]Floogal[/b]: I don't know if you planned for it from the start, but learning advanced Knockback Brothers one round before you needed it was truly excellent timing.[/quote]
I actually HADN'T directly planned it from the start, but pretty much knew it wouldn't be until very late. I didn't get around to figuring out just when each Bro learned the advance version until the segment before Hermie III, and was hoping to get it on the last shot in the Fawful fight. I had to change that when things weren't going entirely as planned in Bowser's Castle, but thankfully, I didn't lose time from it.

Floogal

2007-07-31 05:57:49 am

I absolutely hate resurrecting such an old thread, but this for new discussion of the game.

Anyways, this is concerning a new strategy for Queen Bean. It's much faster than the old "destroy-arms-to-knock-crown-off" method. I've just tested this myself, so it's not a theory -- it's fact.

Simply put, use Advanced Splash Brothers. In case you didn't know, the advanced version of Splash Brothers does 10% less damage, but it does double damage to spiky enemies. Guess what? Queen Bean (with her crown on) is considered by the game to be spiky.

So, the basic strategy is to have Mario repeatedly use advanced Splash Brothers on Queen Bean's crown at the start of the fight. Luigi should probably use his hammer on the queen to knock her back a bit, so that she can't get close enough to punch the brothers. With both brothers at level 8 (and even choosing of level-up bonuses), I beat the queen in 4 rounds.

Of course, there is a problem -- in the existing run, Mario starts the battle 6 Splash Brothers away from the advanced version. And by the time he's used it 6 times fighting the Queen normally, the battle is pretty much over.

So the only way to make use of this strategy would be either:
a) Have Mario use Splash Brothers more in the previous boss fights, meaning that Luigi doesn't use Bounce Brothers as much (he'll possibly spend his time refilling Mario's BP).
b) Fight a few random enemies somewhere in the game.

Dragondarch, you could just redo segments 2 to 6 instead of the whole run, right? The inconsistencies in the game-file timers would be mentioned & accounted for, right?

I absolutely hate resurrecting such an old thread, but this for new discussion of the game.

Anyways, this is concerning a new strategy for Queen Bean.  It's much faster than the old "destroy-arms-to-knock-crown-off" method. I've just tested this myself, so it's not a theory -- it's fact.

Simply put, use Advanced Splash Brothers. In case you didn't know, the advanced version of Splash Brothers does 10% less damage, but it does double damage to spiky enemies. Guess what? Queen Bean (with her crown on) is considered by the game to be spiky.

So, the basic strategy is to have Mario repeatedly use advanced Splash Brothers on Queen Bean's crown at the start of the fight. Luigi should probably use his hammer on the queen to knock her back a bit, so that she can't get close enough to punch the brothers. With both brothers at level 8 (and even choosing of level-up bonuses), I beat the queen in 4 rounds.

Of course, there is a problem -- in the existing run, Mario starts the battle 6 Splash Brothers away from the advanced version.  And by the time he's used it 6 times fighting the Queen normally, the battle is pretty much over.

So the only way to make use of this strategy would be either:
a) Have Mario use Splash Brothers more in the previous boss fights, meaning that Luigi doesn't use Bounce Brothers as much (he'll possibly spend his time refilling Mario's BP).
b) Fight a few random enemies somewhere in the game.

Dragondarch, you could just redo segments 2 to 6 instead of the whole run, right?  The inconsistencies in the game-file timers would be mentioned & accounted for, right?