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Edit history:
Ultimortal: 2010-01-13 04:06:36 pm
Quote from Seppel:
Teching is hard. Is the boost from getting physically struck by the 2nd Tasen type designed to save time (forgive me for forgetting their name).

It wasn't originally intended to be used that way, but neither was the rocket jumping. :p Teching will come in handy mostly when hit by explosions that are about to send you the wrong way.

Quote:
In our regular pacifist playthrough, we found the Massacre to be underwhelming.  Sad

Yeah, it's an overpowerd weapon, but against Tor it's not very effective because of his Texas-sized health bar. I'm halving its reload time and boosting its damage slightly for 1.6 (which won't affect speedrunning).

Quote:
You never know, though, I might find I way to glitch through walls!  Cheesy

It'll only prove useful if you can glitch back in - none of the levels can be completed by entering the exits from behind, as there are invisible teleports that bring you back to the start of the level. These teleprots are spread throughout the "blank space" of each level, too.

Quote:
Asha is going to be hell. I'm bad at the Asha fights, although for some unexplainable reason, I perform at least 2x better when I look slightly away from the screen.

It might be because the corners of human vision are more tuned for detecting sudden movements than the center, if I remember correctly.

Quote:
Do you have any lists of "odds of certain attacks appearing" for Krotera, Asha, and Proxima?

Let me check.

Krotera:
40% walk, or kick if Iji's nearby (always kick if he's near a crate)
50% machinegun
5% rocket launcher
3% MPFB
2% rapid fire MPFB
-After firing any projectile, he walks forward

Proxima:
-Equal chance for all standard attacks
-Nuke after executing a certain number of orders (successfully beginning to charge any weapon or target Iji with the "tackle" attack, even if they are interrupted, counts as executing an order)
-Cooldowns are decreased the higher the difficulty is, and it fires more sequenced plasma shots as well

Asha:
-Equal chance for all standard attacks, except hailing laser daggers which is 2%
-The "upslash" only appears as a punisher for when Iji is doing medium-height jumps.
-The "crouching slash" does not appear on Normal difficulty.
-Asha's reflexes and cooldowns get considerably faster the higher the difficulty is.
-Hitting Asha with a kick or Resonnace detonator can be done on all difficulties, but it's far harder the higher the difficulty.
-These weapons always hit him: Shotgun, Machinegun, Plasma Cannon, Buster Gun, Hyper Pulse, Nuke

Asha2:
-Equal chance for all standard attacks, including Megasmash (the huge shockwave move) and Elecbombs (but only if it's been 10 seconds since it was last used)
-Add a 10% chance to perform Megasmash if his HP is less than or equal to 3.
-The "upslash" only appears as a punisher for when Iji is doing medium-height jumps.
-The "crouching slash" does not appear on Normal difficulty.
-If it's been at least 20 seconds since Asha last used either of the following, they also have a chance of being executed:
2.5% Plasma rage (downwards ladder of plasma shots)
2.5% Plasma vortex (spinning 8-way plasma shots)
-So, if either of the above two supermoves are used you won't see them again for at least 20 seconds.
-Asha2's reflexes and cooldowns get considerably faster the higher the difficulty is.
-The "rapid teleporting" counts as a standard move. It's also used if the setup for some move fails, usually because Iji jumps around too much. All Assassins only reroll failed orders a certain number of times, which means that you'll force them to randomly teleport around a lot if you don't stay on the ground, which is what most of their attacks are made for.
-The only attack that can hit Asha2 are the Shotgun and Buster gun. Nothing else works, not even Retribution.
#Casual
(side note)

It's so strange having the developer of a game actually help people speedrunning.  This is definitely new territory...
The players are close to the developer in this case, and probably with many other indie games, especially speedrun-oriented ones. I like both speedrunning and TAS, too.

And it's embarrasing having ran my own game (it shows a lack of interest from the players), so I hope someone beats my Normal run. :p
Sleeping Terror
Quote from Ultimortal:
And it's embarrasing having ran my own game (it shows a lack of interest from the players)


Nuh-uh, it shows that you're as awesome at speedrunning games as you are at making them. (I'd consider doing a run, probably single-segment, but I don't think my old computer can play and record this at the same time.)
Thanks StrangenessDSS. Actually the game ran fine on my old Win98 computer, but no, it probably wouldn't be able to record it.

I'm working on 1.6 of the game which among other things fixes the timer bumping forward if you retry a boss room at the wrong frame, and the Iosa timing quirk, but I'm making sure there's no reason to change any speedrun strategies.
Another bug?
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2087/krotera33sd.png

You can see Iji heading into Krotera's room in sudden death sector. The odd thing is that she sports 3/3 upgrades which she shouldn't have at this point of the game. Before she entered the boss room her upgrades were 2/2. Same thing happens in single sector, but obviously not during normal play.
How did you produce the bug? Did you play the game normally and just enter the boss room? Which difficulty etc?
Edit history:
weak-ling: 2010-01-28 07:51:04 am
Start -> Extras -> Single Sector play -> Sector 3 -> just walked through -> exited the sector with 2/2 (or 2/1) jump/armor -> arrived in boss room with 3/3 upgrades

Happens every time I try this.
Happens also in Sudden Death Sector 3.
Does not seem to happen in "Story mode".

EDIT:
Forgot to mention that Asha1 and Proxima boss rooms are also affected.
Wow, it would be amazing that I missed that if not for the even crazier bugs there've been. :p Thanks a lot!

The problem was that the game checked on room startup what Sector you're in, to give you the proper jump and armor stats. But the boss rooms count as Sector 11 and up, and there was no check whether you were in a boss room or not.
Would anyone be interested in a Ultimortal Iji run? After seeing the Normal run here on SDA, I thought about trying Ultimortal just to see if I could beat the 44:10 time of Remar, and after 3 days with little to no planning at all (or copying some stuff from the normal run), full of mistakes and bad luck, I got 44:01 (could've been 43:38 if the last boss didn't survive by little) which was good enough for me for now. In a wild guess, I think a sub-40 is possible with imense luck in certain parts.

I'm not really a speedrunner, so I ask, would anyone know the main routes for each sector? I tried all by myself, but I know for sure the ones I tried are far from the best possible, with the checkpoints abusing, how to spend the skill points, and all of that. The information I could gather are:

- Well, since you can only spend skills in health, no detour should be taken for exp.
- Any time an enemy fire a rocket/other weapon that throws you far away fast enough, it's better to just let it hit you. These kinds of shortcuts are the ones that require the most luck. (Also obviously, if you're not going to fly so far by the rocket, tech if it boosting you, dodge if it is in front of you).
- In my try, I didn't take the first armor upgrade so I could lose armor damage faster (for Krotera and sector 4) and it made sectors 5 and 6 a little easier to get damaged and walk by the enemies. I'm not sure if it is really worth it though.
- I think 4 skills in health are enough to make you survive Krotera's attacks and make him hurt himself in the process, 18s was the fastest I've got against him (I survived with one health).
- The checkpoint on sector 4, I'm not really sure about how to use it in the best way and the 4 skills in health from before are good enough to make you have rocket/armor damage with little time lost while getting hit.
- Sector 5 is one of the hardest, for sure, and one of the longest as well, lots of luck involved and some skill points should be spent here to help it, I guess.
- In sector 6 there is a checkpoint, but since there I was with 9 points in health, it was just faster to walk back rather than killing yourself to teleport there. I think 6 points in health should be enough, but for that you will need a lot of luck in sector 5.
- In sector 7 I couldn't find a consistent way of abusing the checkpoint, so I just ignored it. It is another long and painful sector.
- I think by Sector 8 it is okay to have 10 points on health, since you can rocket boost more with 10 points on health.
- No big secrets about sector 9 I guess, just enemy randomness. Iosa should offer little challenge as well, ruined my runs only when she grabbed me.
- For Sector X you have enemy randomness, long path, and Asha in the way. Hardest sector by far, using the checkpoints would waste too much time, which means a perfect match against Asha is required. Besides loads of luck before and after that fight. I think there isn't much of a difference for which order to open the doors protecting the core, or is there?
- As for the last boss, more than 6m for it is too much, I think around 5:20 is possible with good luck/weapon manipulation/dodging madness. Reflecting the purple things and the bombs that fall from the sky do more damage, followed by a rocket and the single MPFB shot (I could be wrong though). For my calculations, the optimal fight would have Tor losing 2 full bars of health by each 3 chargeballs together with the reflected projectiles. Remember you can manipulate which weapon he uses more by damaging yourself by that weapon when you can.

I think that's all, besides the other obvious things that I didn't talk about. Of all the sectors, sector X is the hardest by far, of the three days that I tried running it, sector X took me about 1 day and a half to complete it, so yeah.

Again, I'm no speedrunner and I may sound like an amateur, but I have no really intentions to run this game and record (I'm very slow to crack things and have no idea how to do it faster and I never really speedran anything, it was just fun this time for me with Iji) but I would like very much to see a run of Iji on Ultimortal, as I would be willing to help anyone that wants as well. Anyone wants to try it?

Also, I didn't jump out of all the climbing animations Iji did as in the normal run, anyone knows how much time exactly that saves?
So anyway, any discussion on what is faster to do in each sector is welcome, I will be planning how the run should go as the routes are explained.
I've been thinking of trying a speedrun of Iji after seeing the normal run from here, but to try something different, I'm trying Iji on Ultimortal difficulty. Not that I plan to be serious about it, never tried to speedrun anything, but doing a test run of it was fun, so I decided to give it a go. My final test run time was 44:01, but I just wanted to see if I could beat Remar's time of 44:10, and I know a lot could be improved from my run. I have the routes in my mind until Sector 5, but for the rest I think I would need some help. Here goes the recorded runs I got so far:

Sector 1 - 1:21
Sector 2 - 2:47
Sector 3 - 1:40 / Krotera - 0:11 (really sorry for the quality on this one, I blame Yahoo)
Sector 4 - 2:32

Sorry about the quality, but these are just to show it, I will keep the raw files if I decide to encode them the right way later. Anything you want to point out about those videos, please do. I won't try Sector 5 until I'm sure the times I got so far are good, and I don't want to re-do everything later. For Sector 5, I just need a really lucky run that I don't take too much damage, so I can stay with 5 skill points in health. I won't accept anything above 4:15 for the sector, and I'm almost sure that with good luck Asha can go down in 40 seconds or less. My test run was 5:07 total, so I cant accept anything higher than that.

If I recall correctly, hardest sectors are 5, 7, 9 and X, mainly because of all the enemy randomness that can ruin a run easily. I don't have any trouble with any boss I think, though I still need to gather some data against Tor on how much each reflected projectile damages him. Also Asha2 will need a lot of training, besides the imense luck needed for the rest of the sector.
Other critical points I've stumbled upon are how to use the checkpoints (after Sector 4) more efficiently, how to crack faster (which I know I'm really not good at it), when to spend the skill points on health (since you can't reboot in Ultimortal) and any better route planning overall.

Anyway, any tip will be welcome. Just now I'm discovering how fun speedrunning is.

Also, I don't really plan to submit it to SDA (since I have no idea how to encode videos with that amazing quality properly :P) but maybe if I get a really good time and the community supports it, I will learn more about how to do it.
Quote from Rio:
but I have no really intentions to run this game and record


That's too bad, if you're serious about it I'll help you as much as I can. I'll help anyway, I'll have time to post a detailed route tomorrow, but I too would like to see more running of the game (that's not my own). I'll also do another quick Ultimortal run and see by how much I can beat the time listed in the game.
Well, turns out encoding isn't as hard as I thought it was  Tongue I will try my best at this Ultimortal run then, and submit it to SDA if it is good enough.
I'll post my progress so far:

Sector 1 - 1:21 | I can't see any way of doing this faster.
Sector 2 - 2:47 | 2:46 is definately reachable, maybe 2:45 with excelent cracking skills.
Sector 3 - 1:40 | Don't see much of an improvement here either
Boss Krotera - 0:11 | the two points spent in health until now are necessary so you can kill Krotera with his own explosives. Just had to reset until he blew himself fast enough. 0:13 was the second fastest I've got, so 0:11 was really lucky.
Sector 4 - 2:32 | I think 2:30 is reachable if the second blue tasen (to the right of the first computer) decides to shoot a rocket at you, since you need to get 5 health damage to use the checkpoint efficiently, but with all the random factors of this sector, 2:32 seems good enough.

I'll attach the segments so you all can give it a look and see if there is any improvement possible, I don't plan to make Sector 5 until I'm sure those are good enough.

As for Sector 5, it is really a pain to do. Fastest Sector I got was 4:14, but I know it can be done about 5 seconds or more faster. As for Asha, 0:49 was my best time, but I still think that with perfect luck, 0:40 is reachable. Will wait for opinions about that.

Also, I decided to grab the first armor upgrade, it actually saves more time taking it and makes sector 5 and above much easier to do. I plan to avoid the second armor upgrade though, only getting it in Sector X.









Why don't you use rocket boost from the first elite in Sector 4 to take a different route? That would've saved 10 seconds or so.
Edit history:
Rio: 2010-04-28 06:01:47 pm
...Wow, I completely forgot about that shortcut. Thanks for pointing it out, I will try it again and see what time I can get.

Edit: Yeah, it can save about 10 seconds, 2:22 is my estimated time to get, I will keep trying as much as I can.
I'm sorry, I didn't have the time today after all. Sad I'll be back with my computer on monday, hopefully I can post something useful then.

My only quick advice is to jump out of the wall-climbing animation earlier. As soon as she starts rising to her feet, you can jump - it looks the same as rising from the ducking position, which you can also jump out of.
Quote from Ultimortal:
My only quick advice is to jump out of the wall-climbing animation earlier. As soon as she starts rising to her feet, you can jump - it looks the same as rising from the ducking position, which you can also jump out of.


Thank you, that helped me a lot to understand the right time to jump out of the animation.  Smiley Do you think doing it better in the segments I showed it would save any second?
Out of curiosity, could you say how many frames does doing that save?

I've tried sectors 2 and 3 the entire day today to see if I could take another second off, but no success, so I guess I will be sticking to those.
Also, so far, my best time in Sector 4 is 2:23 but I just know 2:22 is reachable and I can't get it. Always one of the 5 enemy randomness needed to get the fastest time will ruin the run or do what they should slowly, taking some seconds off. I'll attach the segment so you can give your opinion on it.


Attachment:
Hey again, sorry I haven't had the time to reply yet, I'm getting increasingly stressed lately. If you still want to do the run, I'll try to post the route within a few days.
I was just waiting for you so go ahead and post the route, since I have no idea how to proceed exactly through the next sectors. And just take your time for it.

I also would really like some opinions on the segments I already made because I don't wanna have to re-do it all again later because someone didn't point something out  Tongue
Edit history:
Ultimortal: 2010-05-11 09:34:09 am
Segment 1: Looks good.

Segment 2: Excellent, nothing to say about it.

Segment 3: No complaints here, I don't think getting hit by that Commander rocket would have been faster either.

Segment 4: Looks good, hard to make it much faster than that.

Segment 5: In the beginning, you could've jumped at the turret and used the detonator on it, instead of taking a rocket and bouncing on the wall, but then again it set up the death abuse nicely.


Sector 5: There's not much of a strategy to speak of on this difficulty. After the Komato ship, going down the lift, take the left path to open the door etween the Tasen and Komato. You can't reach the terminal to the top-left otherwise. Afterwards, just head right and drop down to the second terminal. After that it's just a run to the Jump upgrade and the goal.

Asha: Never shotgun him when he's crouching low on the ground, you'll miss with too many pellets. If you stand in the middle of a long stretch of ground you'll have the biggest chance of Asha doing moves where you can hit him. If you have the reflexes, follow up each shotgun blast with a kick when he's in melee distance; there's is a 10% or 20% chance this will hit and damage him by 1 HP. (This chance is much lower on the higher difficulties.)


Sector 6: Basically, the same route as in my Normal run applies. You need to either Shotgun the turret by the terminal to blow yourself up, or drop down into the fight below and hope you get hit by a rocket.


Sector 7: Nothing fancy here... abuse the checkpoint by dying right after activating the terminal to open the doors to the right half of the ship. Getting hit by Beasts in mid-air sends you pretty far, and fast. Ignore the Assassins. No checkpoints to abuse from here on, so get Health 10.

Proxima: Be very aggressive in getting it into the electropads. As soon as it charges the Plasma cannon or tries to ram you, head for the bottom of the room and start kicking. Afterwards, hang around the middle platforms and dodge until the terminals activate. You can't stall for time by kicking Proxima into a corner all the time, the terminals only activate based on how many orders it executes, rather than time taken.


Sector 8: To more easily survive the ambush in this sector, if you don't plan to try tanking shocksplinter to kill the first few Troopers, do full jumps into the ventilation above. This makes it a lot easier. Ignore the trapmine, it's not worth it to spawn fewer Komato in the ambush.


Sector 9: I'm pretty sure the route I used on Normal is the fastest way through the bulkhead terminals (use the Troopers to blow up the wall at the second terminal). Then basically do what I did in the Normal run.

Iosa: Jump at the electropads in the ceiling in this pattern: Right, left, right, keep walking right and drop down. Jump up again and fry Iosa, jump up to the left pad and walk left, jump up again and walk right, and she will be fried again. Activate the terminal and repeat. See this video.

Iosa2: This counts as a separate segment, so you can optimize it well.


Sector X: Ungh. No particular strategies aside from trying to shocksplinter-jump or detonator-jump in the beginning (both paths take about equal time I think). After Asha2, follow my Normal route (minus opening the doors in the gauntlet) but take the left road when you reach the final climb, after the weapon cache.

Asha2: The only advice I have is looking at this video again.



Tor: All you can do is reflect something three times in each "loop", with the third reflection being a charge shot. He always opens with Ripper (three blue lasers) on his first loop, so you can't manipulate that. Here are some stats, values are per projectile:

Tor's HP: 1200
Reflected chargeball: 83
Reflected MPFB: 3.3 (the reason for this is that your base Attack is 1.1, not 1.0)
Reflected Fractal rocket (brown splitting rockets): 7, reflect right as they split up, and you'll reflect two of them
Reflected Ragebomb (cluster bombs): 7, somewhat easy to reflect more than one at once
Reflected Tyrian claw (spinning purple blades): 12

You want him to spam Tyrian claw and Ragebomb, Fractal rockets stalls him for a second or two and isn't worth the damage I think. Jump into the Tyrian claw and Ragebomb every chance you get until you think you've taken too much damage to survive the rest of the fight. You should be able to whittle him down in 12 loops if you're lucky this way, 10 rounds if you're amazingly lucky and manage to reflect multiple Tyrian claws and Fractal rockets.

Also, in version 1.6, all issues regarding the in-game timer have been fixed. Don't worry about it jumping forward one second when it shouldn't.

Oh, and your latest video was very low quality, I hope you're recording in higher quality. :p
Alright, thank you very much for all the info. That's really everything I wanted, all left now is practice. One last question though, for the Proxima fight, which time should I aim for, or just reactivating the terminals asap is enough?

As for segment 5, that turret part was a little sloppy, but I've got a lot of luck later, so it made up for that. I still think 2:22 is reachable though if that part is made perfectly. But I'm happy with it right now. The motive I am hit with the rocket is because the Elite Tansen has a higher chance (for what I saw) to fire a rocket at me from a long distance, so I had to have 2 hp there.

As for news, I've got 0:43 against Asha in a very lucky battle, so I will be happy with anything near it.

And yeah, I uploaded the wrong file Tongue I'm recording in high quality, don't worry.
Edit history:
Matslo123: 2019-03-31 08:47:27 am
Matslo123: 2019-03-31 05:22:46 am
Matslo123: 2019-03-25 08:23:13 am
Matslo123: 2019-03-24 05:01:17 am
This is a segmented run of Iji 1.7 any%.
I have made a detailed route explanation https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gKfN9Re68TDE2j4dQnQbWqMQn5hxiePP , where I explain all of the tricks I used to get my time lower.


Each sector and each boss are their own segment, I did not make any segments in the middle of these.

The audio is bad on some sectors for whatever reason, I don't think I can fix that.

Since the recording file is too large to add as an attachment, I put it on my drive https://drive.google.com/open?id=1F7klMpLYShg4HUPTNV8IaDs4FQ8kDyKt
This run is also on youtube
So first of all, it seems v. 1.7 is faster than 1.6 (or presumably other versions). Thus it's probably the only version we'll accept on SDA (as per the rule of running the fastest patch). Secondly, there's a clearly distinct paficist ending and the game plays differently (as you'd expect), so pacifist and non-pacifist are both good for SDA. Thirdly, I see the other category on SRC is "all items", which sounds like 100% to me. So in this case the categories listed on SRC (except v. 1.6) are all good for SDA as well. Segmented and SS are both a thing of course.

I'm asking the timer what we think about IGT vs. RTA in games like this. What was the specific reason why you timed (/optimized?) that run for IGT by the way?

Finally, you could probably justify a low% where you get the lowest number of everything in the end-level stats screen (and no supercharges?), because taking no damage and doing the least possible hacking would change the route significantly over the pacifist any%. Feel free to comment on any of this BTW.

I recommend not leaving your route notes just on your hard drive. If I were you, I'd start a wiki for the game, or at least include the notes in the submission. People really appreciate that kind of stuff and this way no-one has to hunt you down ten years later if they want your knowledge.
Quote from LotBlind:
So first of all, it seems v. 1.7 is faster than 1.6 (or presumably other versions). Thus it's probably the only version we'll accept on SDA (as per the rule of running the fastest patch). Secondly, there's a clearly distinct paficist ending and the game plays differently (as you'd expect), so pacifist and non-pacifist are both good for SDA. Thirdly, I see the other category on SRC is "all items", which sounds like 100% to me. So in this case the categories listed on SRC (except v. 1.6) are all good for SDA as well. Segmented and SS are both a thing of course.

I'm asking the timer what we think about IGT vs. RTA in games like this. What was the specific reason why you timed (/optimized?) that run for IGT by the way?

Finally, you could probably justify a low% where you get the lowest number of everything in the end-level stats screen (and no supercharges?), because taking no damage and doing the least possible hacking would change the route significantly over the pacifist any%. Feel free to comment on any of this BTW.

I recommend not leaving your route notes just on your hard drive. If I were you, I'd start a wiki for the game, or at least include the notes in the submission. People really appreciate that kind of stuff and this way no-one has to hunt you down ten years later if they want your knowledge.


The reason I used the IGT to time it is because I had to save after every segment. At the time I didn't really have any editing knowledge so I decided to do it that way. You can see that the segments aren't well put together. Timing it with real time would mean manually putting these clips together frame perfect (at the end of sector transitions).

On the topic of a low%. I don't think doing a no damage SS run is realistic. There would be WAY too much RNG involved and I don't think anyone would run it.

Lastly I don't have any route notes but I will write them down tomorrow.