Hardest NES/SNES game

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

Spider-Waffle

Edit history:

Spider-Waffle: 2009-04-22 01:01:23 am

2009-04-21 04:48:05 am

Don't think! feeeeeal

These games are most commonly mentioned: battletoads, rygar, silver suffer, ghost n' goblins, gradius III arcade mode, ikari warriors

Does anyone know of any games harder than these?

Thread title:

getter77

2009-04-21 06:13:01 am

100% runs=great to watch

RoboWarrior NES
Summer Carnival '92 Recca NES

Chromium

2009-04-21 09:36:58 am

Hardest NES game has to be Ghosts N' Goblins by a wide margin. See my post in the "Gamer Rage" section for proof - that game has always owned me. I agree Battletoads can be unforgiving, though mostly just level 9.

For SNES the hardest game I recall playing is Actraiser 2. I mean really, does Death Field/Volcano have to be THAT brutal? Even on Easy mode that game is still a crazy challenge. I'd LOVE to see a speed run of this, i'd probably pay a bounty on that one.

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2009-04-26 11:01:18 pm

2009-04-21 11:21:36 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Silver Surfer pastes all those other games in difficulty, but most of that might be that it's so stupid and unintuitive that it's hard to figure out what to even do at times. I don't think any of those games even count as "hard." (edit: I'm blind, I missed gng the first time) Zanac and Gradius 3 in particular are easier than an average shmup (maybe not on NES/SNES though lol). SNES Gradius 3 arcade mode is somewhat harder compared to SNES Gradius 3 normal mode, but it pales in comparison to the actual arcade Gradius 3, which is genuinely difficult. The only thing you have to look out for in Zanac is rank, and for Recca (getter's post) you just have to know the boss-specific tricks. For reference, a hard NES shmup is Zombie Nation.

Edit: Amusingly enough, I just realized after all this time that I was mixing up Silver Surfer with Captain Planet. Tongue

For NES, the hardest I know about are: Ikari Warriors (my pick), Dragon's Lair, Mission Impossible. There's bound to be some Japan-only game out there that tops these though.

I have no idea for SNES actually. They stopped making super-tough games around that time. I'd have to think about it.

Silver Surfer pastes all those other games in difficulty, but most of that might be that it's so stupid and unintuitive that it's hard to figure out what to even do at times. I don't think any of those games even count as "hard." (edit: I'm blind, I missed gng the first time) Zanac and Gradius 3 in particular are easier than an average shmup (maybe not on NES/SNES though lol). SNES Gradius 3 arcade mode is somewhat harder compared to SNES Gradius 3 normal mode, but it pales in comparison to the actual arcade Gradius 3, which is genuinely difficult. The only thing you have to look out for in Zanac is rank, and for Recca (getter's post) you just have to know the boss-specific tricks. For reference, a hard NES shmup is Zombie Nation.

Edit: Amusingly enough, I just realized after all this time that I was mixing up Silver Surfer with Captain Planet. :P

For NES, the hardest I know about are: [b]Ikari Warriors[/b] (my pick), Dragon's Lair, Mission Impossible. There's bound to be some Japan-only game out there that tops these though.

I have no idea for SNES actually. They stopped making super-tough games around that time. I'd have to think about it.

mikwuyma

2009-04-21 11:28:11 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

silver suffer

Nice and accurate play on words mr. typo Tongue

I do agree with Enhasa on Silver Surfer, the game is just a stupid memorizer.

Jabs aside, I would nominate the same NES games as Enhasa. Ikari Warriors possibly edging out the other games because of its length.

For SNES I would nominate Jim Powers simply because it's so stupid. Sad

I'm sure there are other games for SNES that are just as tough (maybe Dragon's Lair?), but I can't think of them right now.

Enhasa

2009-04-21 11:30:23 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

My SNES nominee is D-Force because that game is so terrible that you would never want to finish it. I heard it's extremely easy but I will never know!

drrob

2009-04-21 11:36:48 am

I normally don't keep defaults, but I do love SDA!

Quote from mikwuyma:

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

silver suffer

Nice and accurate play on words mr. typo Tongue

I do agree with Enhasa on Silver Surfer, the game is just a stupid memorizer.

Jabs aside, I would nominate the same NES games as Enhasa. Ikari Warriors possibly edging out the other games because of its length.

For SNES I would nominate Jim Powers simply because it's so stupid. Sad

I'm sure there are other games for SNES that are just as tough (maybe Dragon's Lair?), but I can't think of them right now.

Ikari Warriors A,B,B,A ... Infinite Continues (I still never beat the game)

sunburstbasser

2009-04-21 11:44:08 am

Silver Hawk!

Any Fire Emblem game can be difficult if you try to not let anyone die. FE 3 seems to be harder than 4; I haven't played Thracia 776 or the NES games. If death is acceptable, these games do become slightly easier.

Ace Combat on NES isn't too bad for the first 3 chapters, but really seems to ramp up after that. I've never completed the 5th set of missions, and there are 7 total with 4 missions each.

Top Gun? Landing/refueling at least.

Poesta

2009-04-21 11:49:37 am

Yarr

Quote from mikwuyma:

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

silver suffer

Nice and accurate play on words mr. typo Tongue

I do agree with Enhasa on Silver Surfer, the game is just a stupid memorizer.

Hah, I laughed my ass off watching the Silver Surfer review by the AVGN. I don't really know which games are the hardest as I've only got a few NES games. Of those I think paperboy is the hardest, but I think it's just a matter of memorization of what happens where i.e. I haven't really tried.

drrob

2009-04-21 12:04:59 pm

I normally don't keep defaults, but I do love SDA!

Quote from drrob:

Ikari Warriors A,B,B,A ... Infinite Continues (I still never beat the game)

My God, I just realized I never even beat the 1st level!

Here's someone beating the 1st level with 1 death.

OK, my vote goes to IW.

ColonelFatso

2009-04-21 12:42:58 pm

I don't have anything like a good nominee for the NES, but SNES Pugsley's Scavenger Hunt is the hardest Mario-style platformer I've ever played. It's just so... damned... fast... paced. It's also one of the few hard games I've played that didn't suffer in quality due to its difficulty.

MrNintendo

2009-04-21 12:48:05 pm

Tears, they fall just like runs that are too slow.

Dragon's Lair the NES version.

Enhasa

2009-04-21 04:35:54 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

About Ikari Warriors, in case people don't know, vgmr is a total badass.

http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=12435 (archive link inside)

ktwo

2009-04-21 04:45:45 pm

First of all, having seen a couple of topics based on the same concept, I say you should explain what you mean by hardest.
- Is it the gameplay ? (some games have a steep learning curve making you die a lot in the beginning, but are not that bad when you learned the game physics)
- How hard it is to beat the game ? (continues allowed or not ? warps ?)
- Are you allowed to use any kind of help ? (read a walkthrough or practice hard areas on emu)

Some of the mentionned games obviously fit in on all criterias. My definition of the hardest game would be to beat the game for the correct ending without help other than what the developers put there for you (continues, passwords, extra lives, ...).
For nes, I would like to add Snake Rattle 'n Roll, Werewolf and Solomon's Key. Other tough games are Punch Out (I have only beaten Tyson once after many hours of playing - I think I have slow reaction times making it almost impossible to dodge his punches) and Bayou Billy.
For snes, I can only concur to Pugsley's Scavenger Hunt, which is utterly difficult and still a good game. Other challenges are Death Valley Rally, F-Zero (beat King's league on Master), Star Fox (level 3) and Contra III. Shmups might not be my speciality, but to get the correct ending on games like the R-types and Axelay, you need to go through on the harder setting, which is beyond me (I don't doubt there are people able to do it though).

Concerning the mentionned games, I'm not sure I agree about Rygar. The only hard part is Ligar (the last boss) and that is if you play on pal. It's nice to see Mission Impossible mentionned (, while I don't necessarily agree to it being one of the hardest games out there). I always had a thing against regenerating enemies, so I immediately fell in love with the game.

First of all, having seen a couple of topics based on the same concept, I say you should explain what you mean by hardest.
- Is it the gameplay ? (some games have a steep learning curve making you die a lot in the beginning, but are not that bad when you learned the game physics)
- How hard it is to beat the game ? (continues allowed or not ? warps ?)
- Are you allowed to use any kind of help ? (read a walkthrough or practice hard areas on emu)

Some of the mentionned games obviously fit in on all criterias. My definition of the hardest game would be to beat the game for the correct ending without help other than what the developers put there for you (continues, passwords, extra lives, ...). 
For nes, I would like to add Snake Rattle 'n Roll, Werewolf and Solomon's Key. Other tough games are Punch Out (I have only beaten Tyson once after many hours of playing - I think I have slow reaction times making it almost impossible to dodge his punches) and Bayou Billy.
For snes, I can only concur to Pugsley's Scavenger Hunt, which is utterly difficult and still a good game. Other challenges are Death Valley Rally, F-Zero (beat King's league on Master), Star Fox (level 3) and Contra III. Shmups might not be my speciality, but to get the correct ending on games like the R-types and Axelay, you need to go through on the harder setting, which is beyond me (I don't doubt there are people able to do it though).

Concerning the mentionned games, I'm not sure I agree about Rygar. The only hard part is Ligar (the last boss) and that is if you play on pal. It's nice to see Mission Impossible mentionned (, while I don't necessarily agree to it being one of the hardest games out there). I always had a thing against regenerating enemies, so I immediately fell in love with the game.

Chromium

2009-04-21 04:58:37 pm

I think games like Rygar have a varied degree of difficulty - it is only as tough as you want it to be. If you spend enough time levelling up on those robots in Lapis or in Dorago's palace, you can pretty much bum rush Ligar and obliterate him in seconds (especially with attack and assail). With Punch Out, I always thought Super Macho Man was a bit harder than Tyson/Mr Dream since he'd periodically get up from a knockdown and unleash 8 - 10 spin punches in a row - I dunno but I always messed up the timing around the 5th or 6th spin punch and ate some fist.

Ugh, must we continue to mention Jim Powers? That is a hard game... hard to believe it actually got a green light and was really made. Even harder to believe? We actually played the damn thing for more than 6 seconds.

ktwo

2009-04-21 05:28:47 pm

Quote from Chromium:

I think games like Rygar have a varied degree of difficulty - it is only as tough as you want it to be. If you spend enough time levelling up on those robots in Lapis or in Dorago's palace, you can pretty much bum rush Ligar and obliterate him in seconds (especially with attack and assail).

It has been said before, but it's worth to be mentionned again - Ligar is definately no pushover in the pal-version (the max experience points is only around 1/4 or something of the ntsc-version)...

NK3233

2009-04-21 05:57:39 pm

It's-a me, Stalin!

I suppose watching any AVGN could tell you the hardest NES games, Ghostbusters comes to mind.

Enhasa

2009-04-21 06:01:19 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote from ktwo:

My definition of the hardest game would be to beat the game for the correct ending without help other than what the developers put there for you (continues, passwords, extra lives, ...).
For nes, I would like to add Snake Rattle 'n Roll, Werewolf and Solomon's Key.

Yeah, I wouldn't put those on a level with Ikari Warriors, but they are good choices, because like you said, for each of these games, they become much harder if you don't know what you're doing. They all do become much easier if you know the game.

Quote from JackT:

I suppose watching any AVGN could tell you the hardest NES games, Ghostbusters comes to mind.

Nah, because AVGN complains greatly about everything.

Vugmer

Edit history:

Vugmer: 2009-04-21 10:31:03 pm

2009-04-21 10:13:01 pm

Cigar Man

I agree that "hardest" should be defined, like ktwo already said. When someone asks what I think some of the hardest games are, I sometimes assume he's using the same criteria as me, but often he isn't. A friend of mine once said, "King's Quest VI is so easy. I beat it in a day." I was astonished because I spent a couple of weeks playing the game before I finally beat it. After we talked more, I found out that he used a walkthrough for the whole game. I didn't use a walkthrough at all. My friend and I obviously didn't judge a game's difficulty in the same way.

A game's difficulty should be judged by how hard it is to beat on the hardest difficulty without using any external help. Some examples of external help are walkthroughs, videos of game footage, advice from friends, practicing on an emulator, FAQs, etc. Obviously, cheat codes can't be used at all, not even to practice. The A-B-B-A cheat code in Ikari Warriors, for instance, wouldn't be allowed. Part of my reasoning for this is because there is no mention of the code in the instruction manual, so if you bought the game in the late '80s on a whim, you would have no idea that the code even existed.

Most in-game hints are fine to use. For example, Ocarina of Time's Navi gives hints, which is fine. In Shadow of the Colossus, if you don't make any progress for a while, that god voice will give you a hint, which is fine. In Zack & Wiki, I think you can buy hints, which is fine. I can't think of any games right now in which I would say that the in-game hints aren't fine, but there are probably some examples.

Reading the instruction manual is fine, unless the manual has a section specifically devoted to hints. If I remember right, I think the instruction manual for A Link to the Past has a hint section, which had a spoiler warning and was sealed off with tape or something; this wouldn't be allowed.

Ikari Warriors is the hardest NES game I've played. Even if you've read the entire Ikari Warriors FAQ, practiced on an emulator for a countless number of hours, and know the game inside and out, the game will still hand you your ass.

I kind of doubt that the Angry Video Game Nerd thinks that the landing sequence in Top Gun is that hard in reality. He just exaggerates a game's difficulty for comic effect.

I agree that "hardest" should be defined, like ktwo already said.  When someone asks what I think some of the hardest games are, I sometimes assume he's using the same criteria as me, but often he isn't.  A friend of mine once said, "[i]King's Quest VI[/i] is so easy.  I beat it in a day."  I was astonished because I spent a couple of weeks playing the game before I finally beat it.  After we talked more, I found out that he used a walkthrough for the whole game.  I didn't use a walkthrough at all.  My friend and I obviously didn't judge a game's difficulty in the same way.

A game's difficulty should be judged by how hard it is to beat on the hardest difficulty without using [i]any[/i] external help.  Some examples of external help are walkthroughs, videos of game footage, advice from friends, practicing on an emulator, FAQs, etc.  Obviously, cheat codes can't be used at all, not even to practice.  The A-B-B-A cheat code in [i]Ikari Warriors[/i], for instance, wouldn't be allowed.  Part of my reasoning for this is because there is no mention of the code in the instruction manual, so if you bought the game in the late '80s on a whim, you would have no idea that the code even existed.

Most in-game hints are fine to use.  For example, [i]Ocarina of Time[/i]'s Navi gives hints, which is fine.  In [i]Shadow of the Colossus[/i], if you don't make any progress for a while, that god voice will give you a hint, which is fine.  In [i]Zack & Wiki[/i], I think you can buy hints, which is fine.  I can't think of any games right now in which I would say that the in-game hints aren't fine, but there are probably some examples.

Reading the instruction manual is fine, unless the manual has a section specifically devoted to hints.  If I remember right, I think the instruction manual for [i]A Link to the Past[/i] has a hint section, which had a spoiler warning and was sealed off with tape or something; this wouldn't be allowed.

[i]Ikari Warriors[/i] is the hardest NES game I've played.  Even if you've read the entire [i]Ikari Warriors[/i] FAQ, practiced on an emulator for a countless number of hours, and know the game inside and out, the game will still hand you your ass.

I kind of doubt that the Angry Video Game Nerd thinks that the landing sequence in [i]Top Gun[/i] is that hard in reality.  He just exaggerates a game's difficulty for comic effect.

andrewg

2009-04-21 11:21:54 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

Alright... The hardest game of all time:

Elevator Action... seriously I wonder if anyone has ever reached the end of this game on console without cheating or anything. After level 4-5, the game just gets to be insanely difficult.

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

2009-04-22 12:49:09 am

Don't think! feeeeeal

Well I've heard a lot but the one most agreed upon seems to be ikari warriors. battle toads, ghost n' goblins, and rygar get mentioned because they were actually pretty good games and thus popular/well-known. Without using help it takes a long time to figure out battle toads, so by that it is hard.

Having watched a lot of the speedrun of ikari warrior I have to say it doesn't look that hard if you had every enemy spawn memorized. The guy seems to have strats where he can just take his time and meticulously move forward, certain mistakes are fine, just as long as you follow the strat right.

I'm looking for the game that's the hardest to beat with any amount of knowledge or practice, something like donkey kong for the arcade for example, where as only 2 people in the world have beaten it, you could get coached by steve weibe and practice all you want and it'll still take you years before you could even consider beating it. I think randomness is key.

Vugmer

2009-04-22 01:06:25 am

Cigar Man

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

I think randomness is key.

There is a bit of randomness in Ikari Warriors: certain enemies walk in random directions and fire randomly, which is truly one of the things that makes the game so hard.

I spent over a year trying to beat Ikari Warriors, playing it off and on. I started this thread (http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php/topic,6175.0.html) in April of 2007 and finally beat the game in June of 2008.

getter77

2009-04-22 06:05:06 am

100% runs=great to watch

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

Well I've heard a lot but the one most agreed upon seems to be ikari warriors. battle toads, ghost n' goblins, and rygar get mentioned because they were actually pretty good games and thus popular/well-known. Without using help it takes a long time to figure out battle toads, so by that it is hard.

Having watched a lot of the speedrun of ikari warrior I have to say it doesn't look that hard if you had every enemy spawn memorized. The guy seems to have strats where he can just take his time and meticulously move forward, certain mistakes are fine, just as long as you follow the strat right.

I'm looking for the game that's the hardest to beat with any amount of knowledge or practice, something like donkey kong for the arcade for example, where as only 2 people in the world have beaten it, you could get coached by steve weibe and practice all you want and it'll still take you years before you could even consider beating it. I think randomness is key.

SUMMER CARNIVAL '92 RECCA that game is legendary. Also Shiren the Wanderer and/or Torneko for the SNES to a lesser degree since they are Roguelikes.

[quote="Spider-Waffle"]
Well I've heard a lot but the one most agreed upon seems to be ikari warriors.  battle toads, ghost n' goblins, and rygar get mentioned because they were actually pretty good games and thus popular/well-known.  Without using help it takes a long time to figure out battle toads, so by that it is hard.

Having watched a lot of the speedrun of ikari warrior I have to say it doesn't look that hard if you had every enemy spawn memorized.  The guy seems to have strats where he can just take his time and meticulously move forward, certain mistakes are fine, just as long as you follow the strat right.

I'm looking for the game that's the hardest to beat with any amount of knowledge or practice, something like donkey kong for the arcade for example, where as only 2 people in the world have beaten it, you could get coached by steve weibe and practice all you want and it'll still take you years before you could even consider beating it.  I think randomness is key.
[/quote]

SUMMER CARNIVAL '92 RECCA   that game is legendary.  Also Shiren the Wanderer and/or Torneko for the SNES to a lesser degree since they are Roguelikes.

Humorisk

2009-04-22 06:48:07 am

I haven't played all 800 NES titles so I don't know for sure, but the hardest for me should be pretty clear.

Actually I think there's a drinking game somewhere in Silver Surfer and its death screen. Though that might lead to a real life death. I wish it weren't an auto-scroller so someone could do a run for it.

This is kind of an apples and oranges thing, but when it comes to RPGs, Dragon Warrior 2 comes to mind. That game can be brutal. Even overpowered characters don't always help you. Plus it might just be me, but it seems like enemies specifically gang up on the weaker party members, always leaving the Prince of Midenhall alone, despite the fact that he's in the lead.

The definition of hard certainly varies for different folks. Some games are just hard, where others are hard, tedious, and boring. That makes you want to give up and not get any better. Donkey Kong mostly seems like an issue of endurance, as it takes those guys in The King of Kong like two and a half hours or something to finish.

I haven't played all 800 NES titles so I don't know for sure, but the hardest for me should be pretty clear.

Actually I think there's a drinking game somewhere in Silver Surfer and its death screen.  Though that might lead to a real life death.  I wish it weren't an auto-scroller so someone could do a run for it.

This is kind of an apples and oranges thing, but when it comes to RPGs, Dragon Warrior 2 comes to mind.  That game can be brutal.  Even overpowered characters don't always help you.  Plus it might just be me, but it seems like enemies specifically gang up on the weaker party members, always leaving the Prince of Midenhall alone, despite the fact that he's in the lead.

The definition of hard certainly varies for different folks.  Some games are just hard, where others are hard, tedious, and boring.  That makes you want to give up and not get any better.  Donkey Kong mostly seems like an issue of endurance, as it takes those guys in The King of Kong like two and a half hours or something to finish.

Chromium

2009-04-22 10:07:38 am

Yeah as far as RPG's go Dragon Warrior 2 can rape you pretty bad. Why Artho has to be useless is beyond me. Especially, when you first exit the Road to Rhone - I can't tell you how many times i'd walk outside, then promptly get decimated by 17 random encounters in 21 steps, all of which are monsters far above the level of the ones you just got done with in the cave. And then there's Zorlax of course, grrrr.

So, I went and played Ikari Warriors again after reading this topic....my god it is worse than I remember. I may have to change my vote on this one, since now I know WHY I went 8 years since last picking up Ikari. Still, a good speed run of it would be epic.