Guardian Heroes

Sonikkustar

Edit history:

Sonikkustar: 2013-05-12 08:44:14 pm

2013-05-12 08:12:27 pm

The Great Farming Empire

Here's the recorded 12:25.

I'd say around 11:00-11:30 would be a submittable time now.

Reed

2013-05-14 06:39:19 pm

@tiburonCS

I've been using the jump kick to get around, and it clears enemies (though that slows you down a bit). Maybe plain old dashing is faster though. I'm a definite Ginjirou convert, the mobility is a breath of fresh air compared to Nicole - suits my playstyle better.

I'm guessing you leveled INT to 10 just to get some respectable damage before putting the rest in LCK?

Sonikkustar

2013-05-14 07:13:10 pm

The Great Farming Empire

Quote from Reed:

I'm guessing you leveled INT to 10 just to get some respectable damage before putting the rest in LCK?

Yeah, Pretty much. I usually just put all of my EXP to INT after Stage 1 and before Stage 30 just for the range. Golden Silver is very fast so I need some of that extra range as a safety tactic.

Also I think plain dashing is faster than jump kicking as it is more consistent, at least for me.

Reed

Edit history:

Reed: 2013-05-15 04:01:59 am

2013-05-15 03:59:32 am

@tiburonCS

Jump kicking is super easy, it's just side-strong. Unless you mean getting the timing so you never slow down. I'm the opposite, I've always found dashing for long distances to be a pain in the ass.

mikwuyma

2013-05-15 10:23:56 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

XBLA version is definitely a separate category. I don't really remember the differences between the original xp system and the remixed system.

BTW, I looked at your video for a couple of minutes, sonikkustar, and I'm really confused why you don't just input the motion for the lightning palm. Inputting motions is faster than selecting spells in the menu.

Sonikkustar

2013-05-15 10:54:58 am

The Great Farming Empire

Quote from mikwuyma:

XBLA version is definitely a separate category. I don't really remember the differences between the original xp system and the remixed system.

Ah, good to hear.

In terms of differences, the Original had you gain EXP by hitting enemies with melee attacks and casting spells. Actually hitting enemies with spells does not give you EXP though. In Remixed Mode, you gain EXP by simply hitting enemies whether it be with melee attacks or spells. However, you are not invulnerable when casting spells unlike in Original Mode, which is why there are many deaths in my run. I am trying to cut back on deaths though since it does seem a little sloppy. However, sometimes it it useful to die since you become invulnerable for a short amount of time as well as have all your HP & MP fully restored, which helps me line up enemies for the Lightning Palm.

Quote from mikwuyma:

BTW, I looked at your video for a couple of minutes, sonikkustar, and I'm really confused why you don't just input the motion for the lightning palm. Inputting motions is faster than selecting spells in the menu.

I just didn't have much time to practice the motion since I was only doing runs for two days. Once I am done with finals, I'll definitely incorporate the motion for the lightning palm in a final run.

[quote="mikwuyma"]XBLA version is definitely a separate category. I don't really remember the differences between the original xp system and the remixed system.[/quote]
Ah, good to hear.

In terms of differences, the Original had you gain EXP by hitting enemies with melee attacks and casting spells. Actually hitting enemies with spells does not give you EXP though. In Remixed Mode, you gain EXP by simply hitting enemies whether it be with melee attacks or spells. However, you are not invulnerable when casting spells unlike in Original Mode, which is why there are many deaths in my run. I am trying to cut back on deaths though since it does seem a little sloppy. However, sometimes it it useful to die since you become invulnerable for a short amount of time as well as have all your HP & MP fully restored, which helps me line up enemies for the Lightning Palm.

[quote="mikwuyma"]BTW, I looked at your video for a couple of minutes, sonikkustar, and I'm really confused why you don't just input the motion for the lightning palm. Inputting motions is faster than selecting spells in the menu.[/quote]
I just didn't have much time to practice the motion since I was only doing runs for two days. Once I am done with finals, I'll definitely incorporate the motion for the lightning palm in a final run.

Reed

2013-05-15 03:50:45 pm

@tiburonCS

The motion is back-down-forward-Z, vs. Z-right-Z for the menu. Though inputting motions is definitely faster for most other spells, I go through menus for down-up commands and occasionally Lightning Palm.

Greenalink

2013-05-15 04:05:42 pm

DS Dictator

Another difference on Remixed mode is that every character has a maximum of 100 magic points, regardless of Intelligence stat and it can recharge on its own very slowly or if the character knows a special move that charges Magic up instantly.
This means spell spamming abusers like Nicole Neil are nowhere near as good as they were on Original.

Remixed added 2 notable mechanics to give the defending player a chance to fight back, think of push blocking and 'get the heck off of me' style reversals.

Reed

2013-05-15 06:56:31 pm

@tiburonCS

Does Remixed adjust attack hitboxes/animations? I seem to remember the jump kick traveling further on Original than on Remix.

Greenalink

2013-05-16 06:11:46 am

DS Dictator

I can't confirm on that part but they did adjust the number of hits per attack for some of the characters.
For example if you play as Zombie Soldier and perform a vertical slice:
Original it is just 1 hit,
Remix it registers multiple hits from 1 attack.

Sonikkustar

2013-05-21 05:25:08 pm

The Great Farming Empire

Quote from Greenalink:

Quote:

Is there a way to cancel out of Barrier?

Press the block button twice.

Quote from Greenalink:

Remixed added 2 notable mechanics to give the defending player a chance to fight back, think of push blocking and 'get the heck off of me' style reversals.

If both of these are true for all characters, then this will make my life a whole lot easier. Cancelling out of Magic Attacks would also probably help me escape mooks that can infinite me to death and thus cause deaths.

I've been rewatching my 12:25 run, and it seems that most of the improvements will come from simple optimizations. Things like the Magic Cancelling and the "Burst" move that deflects all enemies away from you will definitely help. Although I think that the 11:00-11:30 range is perfectly fine, I think that I want to aim for Sub-11:00 or at least around 11:0X before I submit. Call me crazy, But i'd rather not submit something that has a lot of potential for improvement as my first run. Tongue

[quote="Greenalink"][quote] Is there a way to cancel out of Barrier?[/quote]

Press the block button twice.[/quote]
[quote="Greenalink"]Remixed added 2 notable mechanics to give the defending player a chance to fight back, think of push blocking and 'get the heck off of me' style reversals.[/quote]

If both of these are true for all characters, then this will make my life a whole lot easier. Cancelling out of Magic Attacks would also probably help me escape mooks that can infinite me to death and thus cause deaths.

I've been rewatching my 12:25 run, and it seems that most of the improvements will come from simple optimizations. Things like the Magic Cancelling and the "Burst" move that deflects all enemies away from you will definitely help. Although I think that the 11:00-11:30 range is perfectly fine, I think that I want to aim for Sub-11:00 or at least around 11:0X before I submit. Call me crazy, But i'd rather not submit something that has a lot of potential for improvement as my first run. :P

Reed

2013-05-22 01:40:33 am

@tiburonCS

I seem to recall the cancel not working for Lightning Palm.

Sonikkustar

Edit history:

Sonikkustar: 2013-05-24 02:11:58 pm

2013-05-23 11:41:03 pm

The Great Farming Empire

So yeah...This happened:
http://www.twitch.tv/sonikkustar/c/2326025

There's still quite a lot of room for improvement, but for now this is alright. I tried out a new route that essentially removes one wave of enemies as well as gives me more EXP. It's just a matter of using Undead Hero's Decimation Crush to help kill the enemies fast enough since they have quite a lot of HP.

I also tried out Randy. He is mostly the same ordeal as Nicole, except i'm not sure if there are any spells that are useful to killing enemies fast with Randy. Then again, I didn't really mess around with him that much. I'll just stick with Ginjirou for now. Tongue

http://www.twitch.tv/sonikkustar/c/2328175

Reed

2013-05-28 10:54:01 am

@tiburonCS

I think since Original is the assumed setting, you should specify Remix in the title. Other than that good run, really good job corralling the enemies in the earlier stages. With the amount of luck in this run, I think low 11 is definitely possible. You could have saved 20 seconds just by having enough mana for another Lightning Palm on Golden Silver.

Reed

Edit history:

Reed: 2013-05-28 05:45:25 pm

2013-05-28 05:36:18 pm

@tiburonCS

Worked on some routing for Earth Spirit ending (stage 24). So far I'm thinking 2>5>10>13>24. I think this is going to be one of the hardest routes in the game, because you fight Kanon while fairly underleveled, and the last stage has a bunch of very quick and fairly resilient tentacle beasts before you even get to the Earth Spirit.

Open to suggestions.

Also, new PB. Original, Normal, Golden Silver w/ Ginjirou: 14:22. Anyone got better?

Sonikkustar

2013-06-08 08:51:19 pm

The Great Farming Empire

I started a page for Guardian Heroes on the Knowledge Database. Keep in mind, I don't know how the page will be layed out yet. But it's certainly a start, and hopefully it will finally determine what categories are valid to run.

https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Guardian_Heroes

Now then, I saw a few of your runs that you did Reed. The only thing I can suggest is to cast spells during your down time in order to get more EXP. Other than that, I'll have to experiment more with Original Mode since the Lightning Palm seems to be weaker compared to in Remixed.

Sonikkustar

2013-06-13 10:10:16 pm

The Great Farming Empire

So this happened...

I knew that the low-11s were good, But I didn't even think about sub-11. I'll upload the video soon, but right now I just need some composure because I am VERY happy with this run.

Reed

2013-06-13 10:13:56 pm

@tiburonCS

Grats dude! That's ridiculous. I've kind of put the game on the backburner for a bit, but I might get back into it when I start streaming again.

Sonikkustar

Edit history:

Sonikkustar: 2013-06-14 04:19:15 pm

Sonikkustar: 2013-06-14 03:27:06 pm

Sonikkustar: 2013-06-14 03:11:01 pm

2013-06-14 02:51:59 pm

The Great Farming Empire

Here is the run:

I don't know what to say. This is a very good run, but I feel like it could be a little better. I might try for ~10:3X, and then submit.

Reed

2013-06-20 06:53:34 pm

@tiburonCS

Here is a link to 14:46, Original Normal Golden Silver w/ Ginjirou:
http://www.twitch.tv/srgmarathon/c/2454130

~20 seconds above my PB, not terrible for a marathon run I think.

Sonikkustar

2013-07-23 10:13:05 pm

The Great Farming Empire

I guess it's time for an update.

I've been coming into Golden Silver with ~9:15 on the timer. I changed the route from Stage 22 to Stage 21 mostly because you only have to fight 3 waves of enemies rather than 5 on Stage 22. I'd imagine around the low-10s or maybe even sub-10 if I get good Golden Silver luck.

Sonikkustar

2013-08-23 11:20:06 pm

The Great Farming Empire

Guys...I got some news for you.

Thats right. 9:35! I think I will submit this.

I'd like to give a big shoutout to Reed up a few posts above for supporting the Guardian Heroes speedruning movement as well as being one of the few souls to actually run this game. It's been one hell of a ride bringing this time down to insane levels and I an very thankful that I have improved so much to a high enough level.

I think it's about time I give this game a break. Although the run is improvable, I don't want to go through millions of attempts through ridiculous RNG to shave off 5-10 seconds. At least...not now.

Reed

2013-08-28 10:45:10 pm

@tiburonCS

Congrats dude! Time to route some other endings! Nah jk. That is a pretty crazy time considering all the RNG that goes into things.

Sonikkustar

2013-08-30 08:24:11 pm

The Great Farming Empire

Here's the run. (This is the raw, so fast foward to 1:08 to see the start of the run.)

Right now i'm kinda trying what to decide what this category is supposed to be for submission. Is it just "Golden Silver path, w/ Ginjirou (Remixed) (XBLA)"? Do the difficulties count as separate categories? I just don't want to submit a category that isn't technically allowed at SDA.

Reed

2013-09-11 07:56:58 pm

@tiburonCS

http://pastebin.com/58VzEA3M
tl;dr list all 4 settings (mode, difficulty, path, character)

As far as what it would be listed under for SDA, it would probably say something like this:
Best time on XBLA release, Remix Mode, Normal, Golden Silver path with Ginjirou: single-segment 0:09:35