GTA San Andreas Official Thread

2013-05-24 10:58:33 am

Yeah, saving in LS wastes a lot of time because you have to go inside unlike Badlands, SF, Toreno's Ranch and LV where you can save outside and only lose out on a couple of seconds at most.

For a 100% run you are minimally forced inside 3 times, after Sweet & Kendl, picking up some spray paint some time between Tagging Up Turf and Nines and AKs and another spray paint pick-up some time after Burning Desire and before you leave Grove Street again. A 4 segmented LS would be tough, given that sometimes you aren't given the car/bike you want and of course any random crashes or incidents that may happen plus clock missions may not fully agree.

Taxi would essentially require a 5th part given how you need to completely avoid the airport and minimize traveling distances. If you don't care about the "in a row" bonuses you could split it up or even delay doing taxi all together though SF isn't exactly taxi friendly and by the time you do it in LV you've probably saved more time from using nitro taxis than the time you would save from not saving and money is pretty tight until you start exporting cars.

Yeah, saving in LS wastes a lot of time because you have to go inside unlike Badlands, SF, Toreno's Ranch and LV where you can save outside and only lose out on a couple of seconds at most.

For a 100% run you are minimally forced inside 3 times, after Sweet & Kendl, picking up some spray paint some time between Tagging Up Turf and Nines and AKs and another spray paint pick-up some time after Burning Desire and before you leave Grove Street again. A 4 segmented LS would be tough, given that sometimes you aren't given the car/bike you want and of course any random crashes or incidents that may happen plus clock missions may not fully agree.

Taxi would essentially require a 5th part given how you need to completely avoid the airport and minimize traveling distances. If you don't care about the "in a row" bonuses you could split it up or even delay doing taxi all together though SF isn't exactly taxi friendly and by the time you do it in LV you've probably saved more time from using nitro taxis than the time you would save from not saving and money is pretty tight until you start exporting cars.

S.

Edit history:

S.: 2013-05-24 12:35:56 pm

2013-05-24 12:35:28 pm

I go inside CJ's house 2 times to get paint. One time after Burning Desire and one time later on.
The rest of my spraypaint I get during Tagging Up Turf and Drive-By.

I found SF to be more taxi friendly than LS. LS is just way too big whereas SF only has two and a half bullshit locations.
I've only tried a few LV taxi sessions, and it was pretty frustrating.

JoshMartini007

2013-05-24 04:13:57 pm

I always thought the spray can on the item map that I look at was the one in CJ's house, I assume it gives the same ammo as the one in CJ's house.

I'm more concern about SF's hills for the taxi mission forcing me to not reach top speed as often, though that's what testing is about, I'm also looking at the possibility of buying the Blueberry and/or Dillmore safehouses during the badland segments so I don't have to detour to that area (going after Vertical Bird would be another option).

S.

2013-05-24 08:47:46 pm

Vertical Bird sounds like the best plan like now. Taking the detour after misappropriation sounds weird to me, although I'm still in the dark on Derek's (or any) route for that part of the game.

JoshMartini007

2013-05-25 07:52:45 am

The trucking missions are pretty hard to plan as the trucking place is in the middle of nowhere and the later missions take you far away so you essentially have to plan a massive detour. In Derek's run for one he goes after misappropriation since he has a helicopter and buys Blueberry/Dillmore in the process, he also uses one of the truck destination to place himself right in the quarry so he can do the second set of quarry missions, another place that may require a detour, though if you collect horseshoes in the right way you could place yourself close to the quarry.

It'll come to what is the shortest detours for the trucking, 2nd set of quarry and all the badlands safehouses.

S.

2013-05-25 11:43:25 am

Yeah the trucking missions are effed up. Those are easily the worst thing to the planning.

bubblebobbler

2013-05-26 07:25:47 am

bubblebobbler

2013-05-26 07:31:38 am

oh, I can't edit the post because I'm not logged in, so apologies for doublepost

the wallknifing strat only really works as a safety strat, otherwise it takes longer, but killing the button through the wall saves time jumping the fence

Joshimuz

2013-05-26 09:36:49 am

Quote from bubblebobbler:

the wallknifing strat only really works as a safety strat, otherwise it takes longer, but killing the button through the wall saves time jumping the fence

Interesting, maybe opening the gate like that is cooler, faster and easier? Cheesy

That's my kind of strat <3

S.

2013-05-26 09:10:04 pm

K I did some SF practice and turns out that just taxi + export lists doesnt work. I beat taxi before I even finished the first list.
Guess I'll have to make more use of the garages in the beginning of SF but I think SF taxi to do export should work really well.

Still need to get some individual mission strats down but the overall line is there up until late in San Fierro for my 100% route. (all I care about right now is not dying and not missing a collectable :p )

For the future, Patrick can you break the caligula missions (mainly Cop Wheels) for me? I have a feeling you'll be better at that than I will ever be :p
Where did Sett go?

Joshimuz

2013-05-27 05:48:35 am

Ok, so using the knife to open the gate without climbing it allows for an interesting strat

You can completely ignore the first and second guard.
The one stood next to the second gate switch CAN be left, however unless you run him over while in the forklift he will kick you out of it as you place the crates into the van.
The ones next to the forklift obviously have to be killed, otherwise they will jack you straight away

Patrick

Edit history:

Patrick: 2013-05-27 06:35:49 am

2013-05-27 06:34:34 am

@S: Thanks. Smiley

And coincidentaly I happen to feel like doing that kind of stuff now.^^

What I like about Party-Desire-Doberman-Imports is that you can keep a fast vehicle for a very long time. :-)

I found a reliable way to spawn the cropduster. :-) It spawns north of the quarry

-> route change:
old: N.O.E -> Stowaway -> back to plane -> Maverick (4 seat heli)
new: N.O.E -> Stowaway -> cropduster -> Maverick
A nice extra is that it is a safer strat than having to fly arround the skyscraper.
The trick to make it spawn is:
- when parachuting, do not fly directly towards it but fly above the street next to it. The reason is that you need to keep distance from it the whole time, ergo this does not mean 'set a red dot on the map which is on the street next to the cropduster and fly there in the direct route'.
- look away from it the whole time
- after landing run to it.

The plane is very slow but it is a bit faster than driving to the airstrip just to get a faster plane. ~20s difference (I used Cannibal's post-Stowaway drive as reference).

Whether this is slower with perfect flight school (->hunter), deserves further testing. A different 'Stowaway strat' is Misappropriation->Stowaway->Meat Business:
+ less heli flying after Misappropriation
- S->Meat is longer than S->air strip
- no heli for Misappropriation
This one deserves testing as well.

Chainsaw strat: I think it is obsolete, the route advantage is a bit bigger than the Chainsaw advantage.

100%
The trucking destination Whetstone 'North' is the better destination, because with a shortcut via the train tracks it is shorter than the others. The distance after the mission is irrelevant as a death warp is fastest. I suggest you do the Paramedics mission then.

The sane route is safer and, surprisingly, a bit faster than the crazy one (speeding down the path and driving up to the train tracks the steep way). 10s difference, I timed until further along the road because after one route your speed is different when driving to the road again.

@S: Thanks. :) And coincidentaly I happen to feel like doing that kind of stuff now.^^

What I like about Party-Desire-Doberman-Imports is that you can keep a fast vehicle for a very long time. :-)

I found a reliable way to spawn the cropduster. :-) It spawns north of the quarry [hidden=map][img]http://www.myepsilon.org/maps/gtasa_vehicles_map.png[/img][/hidden]
-> route change:
old: N.O.E -> Stowaway -> [i]back to plane[/i] -> Maverick (4 seat heli)
new: N.O.E -> Stowaway -> [i]cropduster[/i] -> Maverick
A nice extra is that it is a safer strat than having to fly arround the skyscraper.
The trick to make it spawn is: 
- when parachuting, do not fly directly towards it but fly above the street next to it. The reason is that you need to keep distance from it the whole time, ergo this does not mean 'set a red dot on the map which is on the street next to the cropduster and fly there in the direct route'. 
- look away from it the whole time
- after landing run to it.

The plane is very slow but it is a bit faster than driving to the airstrip just to get a faster plane. ~20s difference (I used Cannibal's post-Stowaway drive as reference).

Whether this is slower with perfect flight school (->hunter), deserves further testing. A different 'Stowaway strat' is Misappropriation->Stowaway->Meat Business:
+ less heli flying after Misappropriation
- S->Meat is longer than S->air strip
- no heli for Misappropriation
This one deserves testing as well.

Chainsaw strat: I think it is obsolete, the route advantage is a bit bigger than the Chainsaw advantage.

[u]100%[/u]
The trucking destination Whetstone 'North' is the better destination, because with a shortcut via the train tracks it is shorter than the others. The distance after the mission is irrelevant as a death warp is fastest. I suggest you do the Paramedics mission then.

The sane route is safer and, surprisingly, a bit faster than the crazy one (speeding down the path and driving up to the train tracks the steep way). 10s difference, I timed until further along the road because after one route your speed is different when driving to the road again.

S.

2013-05-27 07:20:48 am

Traintracks, ofcourse.
That whetstone north route was really annoying. Although I don't yet see how to sanely get on top of the traintracks but I'll figure that out once I go ingame again.

Deathwarp would work yeah, don't know why I didn't think of that either.

Nixixix

Edit history:

Nixixix: 2013-05-27 11:23:40 am

Nixixix: 2013-05-27 11:22:25 am

2013-05-27 11:13:33 am

Quote from freakypaddy:

The plane is very slow but it is a bit faster than driving to the airstrip just to get a faster plane. ~20s difference (I used Cannibal's post-Stowaway drive as reference).

Whether this is slower with perfect flight school (->hunter), deserves further testing.

I don't know if you've made changes since I last saw a run, but this might still be relevant:

Quote from Nixixix:

Hunterless backup strats: I compared using the Hunter until Don Peyote to getting the Maverick with Rustler at the start (taking off to the east which requires precision). This is obviously approximate, but I got times of 385 (practically the same as in Josh's WR run) and 415 seconds. That's only 30 seconds difference, so almost no failed gold (and certainly no two) at flight school is worth redoing. Just remember to avoid Area 69 (from the north side) in Don Peyote.

That would make the Cropduster strat about 10 seconds slower than the Hunter, I think. Slightly less because the time difference between getting the Rustler or Hunter is smaller when driving from south than when running from the flight school or save.

[quote="freakypaddy"]The plane is very slow but it is a bit faster than driving to the airstrip just to get a faster plane. ~20s difference (I used Cannibal's post-Stowaway drive as reference).

Whether this is slower with perfect flight school (->hunter), deserves further testing.[/quote]
I don't know if you've made changes since I last saw a run, but this might still be relevant:

[quote="Nixixix"]Hunterless backup strats: I compared using the Hunter until Don Peyote to getting the Maverick with Rustler at the start (taking off to the east which requires precision). This is obviously approximate, but I got times of 385 (practically the same as in Josh's WR run) and 415 seconds. That's only 30 seconds difference, so almost no failed gold (and certainly no two) at flight school is worth redoing. Just remember to avoid Area 69 (from the north side) in Don Peyote.[/quote]
That would make the Cropduster strat about 10 seconds slower than the Hunter, I think. Slightly less because the time difference between getting the Rustler or Hunter is smaller when driving from south than when running from the flight school or save.

S.

2013-05-27 11:49:50 am

Quote from freakypaddy:

What I like about Party-Desire-Doberman-Imports is that you can keep a fast vehicle for a very long time. :-)

I guess it's a matter of preference then?

Nixixix

2013-05-27 11:55:21 am

It would possibly be apparent with some thought, but I'm lazy, sorry. What's the alternative we're talking about?

Patrick

Edit history:

Patrick: 2013-05-27 01:13:42 pm

Patrick: 2013-05-27 01:11:19 pm

Patrick: 2013-05-27 01:10:29 pm

Patrick: 2013-05-27 12:08:28 pm

Patrick: 2013-05-27 12:06:55 pm

Patrick: 2013-05-27 12:01:50 pm

Patrick: 2013-05-27 12:00:16 pm

2013-05-27 11:59:28 am

@Nixixix: S's map.
Preference, because I said 'I like'? In this case 'I like'='it is good for speedrunning', not about preference (preference=if both are equally fast, I'd to x) but how could you have known. *shrug* ^^ Tbh, I was lazy. I skipped your map to see whether the route has serious flaws so that I do not have to understand it. Else I very probably would have invested time into understanding it. And that happened (the time limit). This just came to mind: it is possible if 'Beach' (22-06) starts at 22, then you can start Management (12-05) in time. So by changing more stuff this might be possible but I am doing different stuff now.^^

@Nixixix: Keep the alternative strat in mind (N.O.E. -> Maverick -> Woozie -> ... -> Misa. -> S. -> Meat). Maybe that one saves more time over the old route than the first (... S->Maverick ...). I do not feel like testing that right now, so I am procrastinating it.

I found a nice little trick in Architectural Espionage. Thank you for your cooperation, game. Smiley

You can skip every single line of the conversation by switching to a weapon and back. So just mash the yes-button and keep changing from fist to weapon. You then cause the fire on your way up to the plan. Then you run past everyone. Weapon of choice for the fire: shotgun - it is also very powerful for the counterfeit chips mission.

Edit:Key to her Heart
You can date her right after the mission, she is there from 12-22
Requirements: muscle, low fat, sex appeal
fat: I assume this won't be a problem.
On the internet, I read 50% muscle are required and that sex appeal can compensate for <50% muscle. My testing show that both can compensate each other. With a sports car (high sex appeal) you only need 40% muscle, 5% more than for the gyms. With 100% muscle, a bike is 'sexy' enough. With 100% sex appeal (cheat 'helloladies'), 0% muscle is OK. Trying to make 35% enough using sex appeal, I tested Stretch and and Alpha (one of the 5/5 on a website). Not enough. Maybe there is such a car... I doubt that it is faster to buy super-clothes for sex appeal instead of 5% more muscle, as buying clothes takes ages but it is worth testing some time.
So, for the strat: 40% muscle, nice car. If there is a super car, in a seg'd run go for 35%+super-car (if it exists).

Surprisingly, the command 'add an hour to the clock' let me analyze the hunger system.
The hunger system only knows hours (1:59->2:01 is one hour). At first, you lose no fat/muscle at all. Then, after 48h, things get started very fast.
You can reset this 48h-timer by getting wasted ~~or busted~~ (sry^^), eating or saving (!) (no re-load required). So that's awesome but in parts of the game you have to enter a building to save which wastes time, so it is worth it to know how it works, anyways:

Phase 1) fat: 2.5% per hour
fat empty ->
Phase 2) health:2.0% per hour
after ~20 times (40%) health lost by starving
Phase 3) muscle:2.5% per hour
So CJ would rather die than give up muscle until you lost ~40% health due to starving. Cheesy

After that you lose muscle. I also tested with plenty of muscle (100%). CJ's body would still rather lose health than muscle. Cheesy

Running has nothing to do with starving, losing fat by running does not affect the 'starve timer'. After ~200s of running (holding space, substracting pauses): -1.5% fat; +1% muscle.

Edit:
Unfortunately, the gyms are closed during 'Snail Trail' and you cannot use the 'gym' outside at the beach ('you are looking busy'). Would have been worth looking into. Smiley

@Nixixix: S's map.
Preference, because I said 'I like'? In this case 'I like'='it is good for speedrunning', not about preference (preference=if both are equally fast, I'd to x) but how could you have known. *shrug* ^^ Tbh, I was lazy. I skipped your map to see whether the route has serious flaws so that I do not have to understand it. Else I very probably would have invested time into understanding it. And that happened (the time limit). This just came to mind: it is possible if 'Beach' (22-06) starts at 22, then you can start Management (12-05) in time. So by changing more stuff this might be possible but I am doing different stuff now.^^

@Nixixix: Keep the alternative strat in mind (N.O.E. -> Maverick -> Woozie -> ... -> Misa. -> S. -> Meat). Maybe that one saves more time over the old route than the first (... S->Maverick ...). I do not feel like testing that right now, so I am procrastinating it.

I found a nice little trick in Architectural Espionage. Thank you for your cooperation, game. :) You can skip every single line of the conversation by switching to a weapon and back. So just mash the yes-button and keep changing from fist to weapon. You then cause the fire on your way up to the plan. Then you run past everyone. [b]Weapon of choice for the fire: shotgun - it is also very powerful for the counterfeit chips mission.[/b]

[B]Edit:[/b]Key to her Heart
You can date her right after the mission, she is there from 12-22
Requirements: muscle, low fat, sex appeal
fat: I assume this won't be a problem.
On the internet, I read 50% muscle are required and that sex appeal can compensate for <50% muscle. My testing show that both can compensate each other. With a sports car (high sex appeal) you only need 40% muscle, 5% more than for the gyms. With 100% muscle, a bike is 'sexy' enough. With 100% sex appeal (cheat 'helloladies'), 0% muscle is OK. Trying to make 35% enough using sex appeal, I tested Stretch and and Alpha (one of the 5/5 on a website). Not enough. Maybe there is such a car... I doubt that it is faster to buy super-clothes for sex appeal instead of 5% more muscle, as buying clothes takes ages but it is worth testing some time.
So, for the strat: 40% muscle, nice car. If there is a super car, in a seg'd run go for 35%+super-car (if it exists).

Surprisingly, the command 'add an hour to the clock' let me analyze the hunger system.
The hunger system only knows hours (1:59->2:01 is one hour). At first, you lose no fat/muscle at all. Then, after 48h, things get started very fast.
You can reset this 48h-timer by getting wasted [s]or busted[/s] (sry^^), eating or saving (!) (no re-load required). So that's awesome but in parts of the game you have to enter a building to save which wastes time, so it is worth it to know how it works, anyways:

Phase 1) fat: 2.5% per hour
fat empty ->
Phase 2) health:2.0% per hour
after ~20 times (40%) health lost by starving
Phase 3) muscle:2.5% per hour
So CJ would rather die than give up muscle until you lost ~40% health due to starving. :D After that you lose muscle. I also tested with plenty of muscle (100%). CJ's body would still rather lose health than muscle. :D

Running has nothing to do with starving, losing fat by running does not affect the 'starve timer'. After ~200s of running (holding space, substracting pauses): -1.5% fat; +1% muscle.

[b]Edit:[/b]
Unfortunately, the gyms are closed during 'Snail Trail' and you cannot use the 'gym' outside at the beach ('you are looking busy'). Would have been worth looking into. :)

S.

2013-05-27 09:18:32 pm

I probably won't even need the Gyms. I did the gyms after I finished a practice session (way earlier in the run than i was supposed to), and i only needed about 2 more muscle upgrades. Hardest part will be maintaining the muscle throughout all of LV, so I can do the LS moves.

Segmented is a different story though.

Patrick

Edit history:

Patrick: 2013-05-28 05:53:39 am

2013-05-28 05:40:35 am

Saving in a SS run is OK, I guess? (E:because then I do not see the problem)

Worn_Traveler

Edit history:

Worn_Traveler: 2013-05-28 07:54:45 am

2013-05-28 07:54:28 am

Formerly known as Skullboy

Saving in a SS is okay as long as you don't load that save at any point during the run. I am happy to see the run productivity this game has been getting recently. The streams are fun to watch.

JoshMartini007

2013-05-31 12:24:17 pm

In Ice Cold Killa, if you destroy the Broadway before entering the club Jizzy runs away in a PizzaBoy which would be easier to kill him in.

Worn_Traveler

2013-05-31 12:28:54 pm

Formerly known as Skullboy

I always just pop the tires on the Broadway as the game tends to keep the car in that state. I've destroyed the Broadway and it has respawned when Jizzy goes to it. I didn't know about the Pizza Boy. Interesting.

JoshMartini007

2013-05-31 08:37:36 pm

Yeah the only reason I know about it is because the PizzaBoy is a unique green colour. Here's a video of someone collecting the bike.

S.

2013-06-01 07:53:12 pm

http://www.twitch.tv/lotsofs/c/2364977 Minor stuff and unless I'm falling behind on route knowledge I don't think this was done.

sett3

2013-06-05 10:06:42 am

so, im back