GTA San Andreas Official Thread

Edit history:

Joshimuz: 2013-03-20 06:04:19 pm

2013-03-20 06:02:31 pm

Having the frame limiter OFF does not only have positive effects on the speed, and it doesn't only have negative effects in sections in which I can just turn it back on for a bit (Swimming). I explained this in my stream tonight but I don't have the energy to highlight it right now.

I'm going to play at 30 FPS now, because I can comfortably play at that. There is NO difference between 25 fps and 30 fps in gameplay, there is plenty of stuff on the internet that will tell you that up to 40 fps there is no difference and at 60 fps the game is playable with no side effects all the way through. The official GTA:SA documentation even states that the frame limiter should limit the game to 30 FPS.

As I've said time and time again, it was never my intention of using the frame limiter for a speed advantage, or to hardware anyone out of running the game. I'm now sick of the argument, and since people seem to hate me for using it I just won't. The question I keep asking though is if people didn't think it made the game faster, would they care?

Having the frame limiter OFF does not only have positive effects on the speed, and it doesn't only have negative effects in sections in which I can just turn it back on for a bit (Swimming). I explained this in my stream tonight but I don't have the energy to highlight it right now.

I'm going to play at 30 FPS now, because I can comfortably play at that. There is NO difference between 25 fps and 30 fps in gameplay, there is plenty of stuff on the internet that will tell you that up to 40 fps there is no difference and at 60 fps the game is playable with no side effects all the way through. The official GTA:SA documentation even states that the frame limiter should limit the game to 30 FPS.

As I've said time and time again, it was never my intention of using the frame limiter for a speed advantage, or to hardware anyone out of running the game. I'm now sick of the argument, and since people seem to hate me for using it I just won't. The question I keep asking though is if people didn't think it made the game faster, would they care?

Cereth

2013-03-20 06:39:13 pm

I think 30 FPS is probably the best solution, it's just a shame that you need to use external programs to achieve that

I think it's important to consider future technologies when allowing the frame limiter to be completely turned off, when the FPS of the game is doubled or tripled. It's hard to tell what effects that can have on the game.

Difference between 25 and 30 fps is non-existent in terms of speed so I don't see why there would be any issue

bubblebobbler

Edit history:

bubblebobbler: 2013-03-20 06:46:31 pm

2013-03-20 06:44:40 pm

Quote from freakypaddy:

bubblebobble:
afaik this is not your find but I guess you revived it so gj for re-viving and finding a use for it. :-) I timed it to be 10-25% faster than jogging. That is not amazing, but what can be is that you take less bullets while running past people. Unfortunately, I could not replicate Josh's running through Re-uniting the Families, he somehow only lost one armor bar ... o.O

well, I never claimed it to be my find - it's a trick that has been known by half of the competitive sa:mp deathmatching community for 5 years or longer, but I've noticed that nobody seemed to utilise in runs (maybe for good reason - I'm not a serious runner so I can't be sure, which is why I thought I'd throw it out here since most people I have spoken to either didn't know the trick or didn't know it worked on no-sprint surfaces)

apologies if I bring up anything old - I'm trying to verify any tricks I know via a seasoned runner to make sure they're worth posting first, since I'm new around here and don't know what is old for the mostpart

[quote="freakypaddy"]

bubblebobble:
afaik this is not your find but I guess you revived it so gj for re-viving and finding a use for it. :-) I timed it to be 10-25% faster than jogging. That is not amazing, but what can be is that you take less bullets while running past people. Unfortunately, I could not replicate Josh's running through Re-uniting the Families, he somehow only lost one armor bar ... o.O[/quote]

well, I never claimed it to be my find - it's a trick that has been known by half of the competitive sa:mp deathmatching community for 5 years or longer, but I've noticed that nobody seemed to utilise in runs (maybe for good reason - I'm not a serious runner so I can't be sure, which is why I thought I'd throw it out here since most people I have spoken to either didn't know the trick or didn't know it worked on no-sprint surfaces)

apologies if I bring up anything old - I'm trying to verify any tricks I know via a seasoned runner to make sure they're worth posting first, since I'm new around here and don't know what [i]is[/i] old for the mostpart

Joshimuz

2013-03-20 07:05:33 pm

I think I remember seeing the trick when I very first started, however since it wasn't faster than sprinting I never thought of a use for it. Using it for Reuniting the Families is awesome, as well as other places we could possibly use it.

You seem to know quite a few tricks/glitches bubblebobbler, keep us posted on anything you think would be useful, or even just fun Tongue

S.

Edit history:

S.: 2013-03-20 07:09:40 pm

S.: 2013-03-20 07:08:12 pm

2013-03-20 07:07:08 pm

Any help is appreciated Bubble!

@ molotok, in-game timer is never used when it is inaccurate, which would be the case in the SS w/ resets category. It's still an RTA because he did it in one sitting. If his game time is 6:05 , but his RTA time is 6:15 (because he spent 10 minutes on a long mission, then died and failed the mission, reloaded), then his RTA time would be 6:15, and the 6:05 would be a segmented WR.
Then again, it doesn't matter. A good SS run has no deaths/mission failures so no need for reloads either.

@ the fps issue.
Yeah, 25 fps vs 30 fps is neglecible. The tags are slightly (only slightly) faster but who the hell cares. If your pc can't run this 10 year old game at 30 fps then I think it's time to invest in a new one. There's probably still this tiny friction thing in the carhandling/swimming that isn't noticeable to the human eye but will actually slow the run down significantly over the course of 6 hours.
There's also this little thing called 'timing'; "Oh, this guy beat the 100% run by 10 seconds, but his tags were .1 second faster each because of the higher FPS. Oh, but that means they are actually tied. GG all. Honor to the both of you!" Gotta be a bit flexible here, loadings are cut out of timing too after all.

Any help is appreciated Bubble!

@ molotok, in-game timer is never used when it is inaccurate, which would be the case in the SS w/ resets category. It's still an RTA because he did it in one sitting. If his game time is 6:05 , but his RTA time is 6:15 (because he spent 10 minutes on a long mission, then died and failed the mission, reloaded), then his RTA time would be 6:15, and the 6:05 would be a segmented WR.
Then again, it doesn't matter. A good SS run has no deaths/mission failures so no need for reloads either.

@ the fps issue.
Yeah, 25 fps vs 30 fps is neglecible. The tags are slightly (only slightly) faster but who the hell cares. If your pc can't run this 10 year old game at 30 fps then I think it's time to invest in a new one. There's probably still this tiny friction thing in the carhandling/swimming that isn't noticeable to the human eye but will actually slow the run down significantly over the course of 6 hours.
There's also this little thing called 'timing'; "Oh, this guy beat the 100% run by 10 seconds, but his tags were .1 second faster each because of the higher FPS. Oh, but that means they are actually tied. GG all. Honor to the both of you!" Gotta be a bit flexible here, loadings are cut out of timing too after all.

Molotok

2013-03-20 08:40:18 pm

Quote from S.:

@ molotok, in-game timer is never used when it is inaccurate, which would be the case in the SS w/ resets category. It's still an RTA because he did it in one sitting. If his game time is 6:05 , but his RTA time is 6:15 (because he spent 10 minutes on a long mission, then died and failed the mission, reloaded), then his RTA time would be 6:15, and the 6:05 would be a segmented WR.
Then again, it doesn't matter. A good SS run has no deaths/mission failures so no need for reloads either.

Yeah, that´s actually my point, i also made nearly the same example as you, but there are basically just three categories. SS is game done without unallowed resets or reloads(allowed reloads would be the minigun ammo reload because the game progresses unlike when you reload after dieing where game progress gets lost). SS is done in one sitting too. Then segmented run ist a run with multiple attempts at some save points, it doesnt matter if you do it in one sitting or not(dieing and reloading would mean a new attempt so a segmented run). A RTA means just the game done in one sitting not caring about resets/reloads and using real time as timer, unlike the other two categories where it is not always the way to measure time, when the actual game time is accurate. So SS with resets doesn´t make sense as category because it is just RTA.

And I tried to point out why RTA category might actually be useless because whatever he will finish the run, be it in a SS(if he doesn´t reload "unallowed", or a segmented run otherwise) the ingame time will be used to time it, because it is an accurate measurement in GTA SA, otherwise old runs wouldn´t use it. Of course he could submit it as RTA, but will that kind of category be accepted for a game, where the ingame time is an accurate measurement?

[quote="S."]
@ molotok, in-game timer is never used when it is inaccurate, which would be the case in the SS w/ resets category. It's still an RTA because he did it in one sitting. If his game time is 6:05 , but his RTA time is 6:15 (because he spent 10 minutes on a long mission, then died and failed the mission, reloaded), then his RTA time would be 6:15, and the 6:05 would be a segmented WR.
Then again, it doesn't matter. A good SS run has no deaths/mission failures so no need for reloads either.
[/quote]
Yeah, that´s actually my point, i also made nearly the same example as you, but there are basically just three categories. SS is game done without unallowed resets or reloads(allowed reloads would be the minigun ammo reload because the game progresses unlike when you reload after dieing where game progress gets lost). SS is done in one sitting too. Then segmented run ist a run with multiple attempts at some save points, it doesnt matter if you do it in one sitting or not(dieing and reloading would mean a new attempt so a segmented run). A RTA means just the game done in one sitting not caring about resets/reloads and using real time as timer, unlike the other two categories where it is not always the way to measure time, when the actual game time is accurate. So SS with resets doesn´t make sense as category because it is just RTA.

And I tried to point out why RTA category might actually be useless because whatever he will finish the run, be it in a SS(if he doesn´t reload "unallowed", or a segmented run otherwise) the ingame time will be used to time it, because it is an accurate measurement in GTA SA, otherwise old runs wouldn´t use it. Of course he could submit it as RTA, but will that kind of category be accepted for a game, where the ingame time is an accurate measurement?

sett3

2013-03-20 08:40:28 pm

I don't care anymore about that fps. I'm going to play at 35 until I beat the game, then it's up to verifiers to add penalty time or so for that 10 additional fps, but first, they're going to find what is difference between 25 and 35 except of half-second faster tags

S.

2013-03-20 11:36:30 pm

@ Molotok: I misunderstood you at first, yeah I agree with you.

@ Sett: I am hype!

Joshimuz

2013-03-21 03:13:06 am

@ Molotok I will just have to beat the whole game without dying then Tongue

Molotok

2013-03-21 07:51:11 am

@Joshimuz: You can die in a SS. You would have to go from hospital to the mission point by car or foot or whatever, but not through reloading the old savegame.

Joshimuz

2013-03-21 08:21:51 am

Ah yeah, ok

Nixixix

2013-03-21 10:37:15 am

I sort of hate to reheat the frame limiter subject (nothing else in this post, feel free to skip), but who doesn't love facts?

There really is no sudden change at 40 or any other number, at least not in everything.

I compared parachuting (or rather freefalling with a backpack) with 25 (limited with the internal limiter) and 30 FPS (limited with Fraps recording). I held W, started Parachute Onto Target in flight school, and just fell to the ground holding W and not touching any other controls. Time taken is the same but there is a noticeable difference in the landing position – 30 FPS takes you farther ahead. I didn't measure it exactly but the distances seem like they could have a 25:30 ratio which would make sense, but it's not that simple. After Stowaway, Josh (~150 FPS) seems to get about the same distance as me (~55 FPS), which is only about 150% of that in CannibalK9's run (25 FPS).

The tag jump turned out to be possible even with 25, it's just much more difficult. With 30 it is already significantly more difficult than with my regular ~55.

After playing at 25 a bit again, I'll also refine my difficulty assessment. There are not that many things that really feel easier with the limiter off, mostly aiming which is not due to different physics. I guess the rest is largely an illusion from the generally pleasant smoothness.

Quote from freakypaddy:

gate: Saint Mark's Bistro, cutscene gate: You've Had Your Chips

Oh, right. There's the airport gate in Freefall as well but with the bike it doesn't matter much. The Chips cutscene timing is weird, the gate might not have any impact on the cutscene duration.

Quote:

sprinting clarification:you can run faster than with mashing space if the f.l. is off and you run with the mouse wheel. Else the speed is always the same as long as the mashing rate is high (4x / sec I guess, use a stopwatch and count '1,2,3,4,1,[...]') - actually that is a low rate. :-) I have nearly no practice and can mash that fast at ease (=not feeling stressed at all). I tested f.l. on, 60, 100 (max for me, with low settings).

Yes, that really is a low rate. Thanks for the information! I've tried to mash faster possibly making it much worse.

Actually, did you mean that (off+wheel > on+wheel), or that (off+key < on+key)? I get that (off+wheel > off+key) and probably (on+wheel = on+key), but those aren't the whole story.

---

So there is a small but measurable difference in some of the physics even between 25 and 30 FPS (each difference 'randomly' favoring either rate). Still it's true that practically everyone can run the game at 30 FPS, so AFAICT the only significant problems of raising the limit are any chosen limit being arbitrary (but strictly speaking, so is 25), and the technical complications in accomplishing the limiting. Am I wrong? Even "intended by developers" isn't really backed up; why would they make it possible to disable the limiter if they didn't intend the game to be playable at (a little) over 25 FPS.

I really hope I finally got this subject out of my system with this post.

I sort of hate to reheat the frame limiter subject (nothing else in this post, feel free to skip), but who doesn't love facts?

There really is no sudden change at 40 or any other number, at least not in everything.

I compared parachuting (or rather freefalling with a backpack) with 25 (limited with the internal limiter) and 30 FPS (limited with Fraps recording). I held W, started Parachute Onto Target in flight school, and just fell to the ground holding W and not touching any other controls. Time taken is the same but there is a noticeable difference in the landing position – 30 FPS takes you farther ahead. I didn't measure it exactly but the distances seem like they could have a 25:30 ratio which would make sense, but it's not that simple. After Stowaway, Josh (~150 FPS) seems to get about the same distance as me (~55 FPS), which is only about 150% of that in CannibalK9's run (25 FPS).

The tag jump turned out to be possible even with 25, it's just much more difficult. With 30 it is already significantly more difficult than with my regular ~55.

After playing at 25 a bit again, I'll also refine my difficulty assessment. There are not that many things that really feel easier with the limiter off, mostly aiming which is not due to different physics. I guess the rest is largely an illusion from the generally pleasant smoothness.

[quote="freakypaddy"]gate: Saint Mark's Bistro, cutscene gate: You've Had Your Chips[/quote]
Oh, right. There's the airport gate in Freefall as well but with the bike it doesn't matter much. The Chips cutscene timing is weird, the gate might not have any impact on the cutscene duration.

[quote]sprinting clarification:you can run faster than with mashing space if the f.l. is off and you run with the mouse wheel. Else the speed is always the same as long as the mashing rate is high (4x / sec I guess, use a stopwatch and count '1,2,3,4,1,[...]') - actually that is a low rate. :-) I have nearly no practice and can mash that fast at ease (=not feeling stressed at all). I tested f.l. on, 60, 100 (max for me, with low settings).[/quote]
Yes, that really is a low rate. Thanks for the information! I've tried to mash faster possibly making it much worse.

Actually, did you mean that (off+wheel > on+wheel), or that (off+key < on+key)? I get that (off+wheel > off+key) and probably (on+wheel = on+key), but those aren't the whole story.

---

So there is a small but measurable difference in some of the physics even between 25 and 30 FPS (each difference 'randomly' favoring either rate). Still it's true that practically everyone can run the game at 30 FPS, so AFAICT the only significant problems of raising the limit are any chosen limit being arbitrary (but strictly speaking, so is 25), and the technical complications in accomplishing the limiting. Am I wrong? Even "intended by developers" isn't really backed up; why would they make it possible to disable the limiter if they didn't intend the game to be playable at (a little) over 25 FPS.

I really hope I finally got this subject out of my system with this post.

S.

2013-03-21 12:58:59 pm

There's so many FPS things in other games, differences listed in the post above are minor.

GG, discussion over.

Joshimuz

Edit history:

Joshimuz: 2013-03-21 05:01:10 pm

Joshimuz: 2013-03-21 04:58:30 pm

2013-03-21 04:12:06 pm

Thanks for all the discussion to prove that this is fine, and all the research/testing to prove this is fine.

Now without further ado

EDIT: This video was made quickly done so its not that fast/good, but it shows the possibilities of this bug
You can do the slide with the minigun and still shoot basically
<3 bubblebobble

Patrick

Edit history:

Patrick: 2013-03-22 08:14:12 am

Patrick: 2013-03-22 08:14:11 am

Patrick: 2013-03-22 07:57:02 am

Patrick: 2013-03-22 07:56:48 am

Patrick: 2013-03-22 07:56:31 am

Patrick: 2013-03-22 07:56:11 am

Patrick: 2013-03-22 07:25:28 am

Patrick: 2013-03-22 07:14:02 am

Patrick: 2013-03-22 07:09:49 am

Patrick: 2013-03-22 07:06:03 am

Patrick: 2013-03-22 07:05:41 am

Patrick: 2013-03-22 07:00:13 am

Patrick: 2013-03-22 06:59:27 am

Patrick: 2013-03-22 06:56:02 am

Patrick: 2013-03-22 06:41:22 am

2013-03-22 06:36:32 am

Sliding
Edit: you need Gangster skill to slide, don't you? (or no skill if the weapons has no skill system)

I argue that AK (hitman) or country rifle or fire thrower(b/c they have no skill level) +sliding > micro SMG+running

IIRC (!), with ak hitman skill (you get in Re-uniting the Families, 100% sure, see ***), you can slide&shoot with an AK, too. [Else, ignore this post. :-)] And I feel stupid for not having realized that this is so useful and discarding it, when that sliding video was posted five years ago. :-D Edit: I always forget the 'thank yous'. :-D Thx for accidently reminding me that you can run&gun with the AK by the minigun slide vid, Josh. :-D

I didn't find the video in the two min I searched, but it makes sense:
walk ak (w/o hitman): impossible
walk ak (w/ hitman): possible
walk minigun (no skill system): possible
slide with minigun: possible
--> slide ak (w/hitman): possible
--> slide with country rifle: possible

Speed advantage of 'slide&gun' over micro SMG 'run&gun': 10-20% faster, need to time that again. The high speed sliding is an illusion like the 'monster acceleration' of the Banshee in GTA 3 (which is only roughly 10% faster than that of a Mafia Sentinel).

specific mission applications: A Home In the Hills can be ran through now, I guess, w/o minigun, but w/ the AK.
Edit: Re:Josh's minigun slide video: looks great, w/o practive it is much slower than running, standing+shooting, running. With (much, I guess) practice it should be a bit faster though, and that is what counts.

*** As S. showed, you get hitman level in Reunting the Families, a trick is shooting your own car. It works, I have 'witnessed' a skill upgrade while he shot at the car.

Edit: I'd prefer if every discovery/idea etc. from the stream/chat makes it into the forum if it is not bad. I am especially talking about the strats that need to be tested or refined or seam bad (bad, not terrible!). A bad strat/idea can turn into a great one with a bit of modification. This is rare, but happens often enough ( i.e. >0 , damn, still looks like a smilie :-D). There is text to speech software with push-to-talk feature, with which doing that takes nearly no time to do.

Edit: To be tested:
1) chainsaw sliding (if it works) in Reuniting the Families should work better than with the spray can and obsolete getting the armor. I am not sure how much time it takes to pick up though (when driving to the low-rider meating, nitro should be worth it if you pick up the chainsaw http://www.myepsilon.org/maps/gtasa_items_weapons_map.png)

2) shooting your bike in Just Business should give skill as well, even though the bike showed no sign of being shot at.

3) rocket-launcher-sliding would be awesome, has anyone tested that?

4) need to test, whether sliding takes energy (relevant for long time running parts), little hope though...

on+key=on+mouse=off+key<off+mouse
it confused me. As I said, the mashing speed is irrelevant if it is 'high'. The reason that the wheel is faster, is probably that the mouse wheel is like a very short button press, and maybe that is what counts.

5) Running: maybe the mashing rate or how long you hold the button makes a difference on how long CJ can run.

[u]Sliding[/u]
[b]Edit:[/b] you need Gangster skill to slide, don't you? (or no skill if the weapons has no skill system)

I argue that AK (hitman) or country rifle [i]or fire thrower[/i](b/c they have no skill level) +sliding > micro SMG+running

IIRC (!), with ak hitman skill (you get in Re-uniting the Families, 100% sure, see [b]***[/b]), you can slide&shoot with an AK, too. [Else, ignore this post. :-)] And I feel stupid for not having realized that this is so useful and discarding it, when that sliding video was posted five years ago. :-D Edit: I always forget the 'thank yous'. :-D Thx for accidently reminding me [i]that you can run&gun with the AK by the minigun slide vid[/i], Josh. :-D

I didn't find the video in the two min I searched, but it makes sense: 
walk ak (w/o hitman): impossible
walk ak (w/ hitman): possible
walk minigun (no skill system): possible
slide with minigun: possible
--> slide ak (w/hitman): possible
--> slide with country rifle: possible

Speed advantage of 'slide&gun' over micro SMG 'run&gun': 10-20% faster, need to time that again. The high speed sliding is an illusion like the 'monster acceleration' of the Banshee in GTA 3 (which is only roughly 10% faster than that of a Mafia Sentinel).

specific mission applications: A Home In the Hills can be ran through now, I guess, w/o minigun, but w/ the AK.
[b]Edit:[/b] Re:Josh's minigun slide video: looks great, w/o practive it is much slower than running, standing+shooting, running. With (much, I guess) practice it should be a bit faster though, and that is what counts.

[b]***[/b] As S. showed, you get hitman level in Reunting the Families, a trick is shooting your own car. It works, I have 'witnessed' a skill upgrade while he shot at the car.

[b]Edit:[/b] I'd prefer if every discovery/idea etc. from the stream/chat makes it into the forum if it is not bad. I am especially talking about the strats that need to be tested or refined or seam bad (bad, not terrible!). A bad strat/idea can turn into a great one with a bit of modification. This is rare, but happens often enough (   i.e. >0   , damn, still looks like a smilie :-D). There is text to speech software with push-to-talk feature, with which doing that takes nearly no time to do.

[b]Edit:[/b] To be tested:
1) chainsaw sliding (if it works) in Reuniting the Families should work better than with the spray can and obsolete getting the armor. I am not sure how much time it takes to pick up though (when driving to the low-rider meating, nitro should be worth it if you pick up the chainsaw http://www.myepsilon.org/maps/gtasa_items_weapons_map.png)

2) shooting your bike in Just Business should give skill as well, even though the bike showed no sign of being shot at.

3) rocket-launcher-sliding would be awesome, has anyone tested that?

4) need to test, whether sliding takes energy (relevant for long time running parts), little hope though...

[hidden="@Nixixix:frame limiter running"] on+key=on+mouse=off+key<off+mouse
it confused me. As I said, the mashing speed is irrelevant if it is 'high'. The reason that the wheel is faster, is probably that the mouse wheel is like a very short button press, and maybe that is what counts.[/hidden]
5) Running: maybe the mashing rate or how long you hold the button makes a difference on how long CJ can run.

sett3

2013-03-22 08:15:35 am

offtopic, but can anyone please give me working 1.0 exe for MTA? in my case, it's not working with 1.0 exe from retail copy of the game

Cereth

Edit history:

Cereth: 2013-03-22 09:05:00 am

2013-03-22 09:04:35 am

If you can flamethrower slide+shoot you might be able to save time on the mothership mission, and save the satchel charges for another mission. Though I don't know the game well enough to say if they'll be helpful later.

sett3

2013-03-22 09:45:21 am

S, here's strategy for snail trail. messed up the jump at 3:25, but i was there JUST in time, so it doesn't screwed anything. also, at 2:55 you need to be just above the train to know that your timing is right

Attachment:

ADS.avi

Patrick

Edit history:

Patrick: 2013-03-23 02:45:05 am

Patrick: 2013-03-22 06:34:09 pm

Patrick: 2013-03-22 06:33:06 pm

Patrick: 2013-03-22 06:31:57 pm

2013-03-22 06:25:42 pm

1,3-5 are tested

How long CJ can run has nothing to do with the mashing rate/mouse wheel (how long the 'button presses' are)(tested at 30fps).

sliding speed
Test results in meters (25 fps; redid one test with 30, no difference; I could not do it w/ 60 fps):
time: 15s, as exact as I could
'walking': 84
holding space: 135
mashing space: 168
sliding:
SMG/silen. pistol: 128 (52% faster!)
shooting does not change speed
AK/M4: 112
minigun: 107
spray can: 104

Edit:Probably, the sliding speed depends on the speed you have walking while aiming with that weapon.
Shame on me for estimating just <25% difference! I didn't know that it depends on the weapon though.

Diagonal sliding is slower (~115 for SMG, vs. 128 sliding straight).
Diagonal normal running is as fast as straight running.

stamina-wise it is better than walking, when sliding you recover faster from the sprint. This is useful for example in 'Amphibious Assault'.

sliding is ...
impossible with: sniper/country rifle ; RPG; skill-system-weapon w/o hitman (you stop as you shoot)
chainsaw (impossible)
possible w/: nothing new (spray can, fire extinguisher, hitman-skill weapon, flame thrower)

flame thrower: I did not find a way to 'fire&slide' not burning myself. Cereth, your strategy would certainly look cool (when being fire-proof at least) :-) but I doubt that it would not waste loads of time. If explosives become more valuable than we know, one can buy 40 grenades or (100% run) 10 satchel charges when buying other weapons.

1,3-5 are tested

How long CJ can run has nothing to do with the mashing rate/mouse wheel (how long the 'button presses' are)(tested at 30fps).

sliding speed
Test results in meters (25 fps; redid one test with 30, no difference; I could not do it w/ 60 fps):
time: 15s, as exact as I could
'walking': 84
holding space: 135
mashing space: 168
sliding:
SMG/silen. pistol: 128 (52% faster!)
shooting does not change speed
AK/M4: 112
minigun: 107
spray can: 104

[b]Edit:[/b]Probably, the sliding speed depends on the speed you have walking while aiming with that weapon.
Shame on me for estimating just <25% difference! I didn't know that it depends on the weapon though.

Diagonal sliding is slower (~115 for SMG, vs. 128 sliding straight).
Diagonal normal running is as fast as straight running.

stamina-wise it is better than walking, when sliding you recover faster from the sprint. This is useful for example in 'Amphibious Assault'.

sliding is ...
impossible with: sniper/country rifle ; RPG; skill-system-weapon w/o hitman (you stop as you shoot)
chainsaw (impossible)
possible w/: nothing new (spray can, fire extinguisher, hitman-skill weapon, flame thrower)

flame thrower: I did not find a way to 'fire&slide' not burning myself. Cereth, your strategy would certainly look cool (when being fire-proof at least) :-) but I doubt that it would not waste loads of time. If explosives become more valuable than we know, one can buy 40 grenades or (100% run) 10 satchel charges when buying other weapons.

Patrick

Edit history:

Patrick: 2013-03-23 05:00:40 am

Patrick: 2013-03-23 04:37:19 am

2013-03-23 04:36:18 am

New Home Invasion strat. :-) And a little modification to the High Noon strat (you may want to append the appropriate '_LQ' to the file name^^). You get the required weapon in 'The Meat Business'.
And some save v1 save games so that you do not need to download them all the time. IIRC, you use the steam version downgraded to v1. The muscle stat in them is way too high, when that is relevant, I'd use the save game editor but whatever.

Edit: High Noon: the doors are immune to chainsaws, and (I repeat) Pulaski and his car cannot be moved by rockets.

Attachments:

all_gtasa_savegames_v1.zip

High_Noon_C-strat.mp4

Home_Invasion_LQ.mp4

S.

2013-03-23 08:15:52 am

Additions to Home Invasion:

1)
For the last case, you can go ASAP to the door.
The bar will fill but the cutscene won't start for a few more seconds iirc.

2) If you shoot Ryder with your pistol before getting in the truck, he will start running towards you, thus making the next cutscene "lets go busta", a bit shorter, because Ryder is closer to the van. (Already showed Josh but because Patrick said he wanted everything here)

sett3

Edit history:

sett3: 2013-03-25 02:57:02 am

sett3: 2013-03-25 12:53:30 am

2013-03-25 12:20:32 am

S, here's strategy for territories . i think it's possible to add 1-2 more tags somehow

Patrick

Edit history:

Patrick: 2013-03-25 02:58:02 pm

Patrick: 2013-03-25 02:57:28 pm

Patrick: 2013-03-25 07:20:07 am

2013-03-25 07:15:42 am

thx, S. :-)

gangs:The waiting time before the spawns is always 10s and the flight time is.

ak-sliding: probably not worth it in SF, saves just a little bit of time but getting an ak takes too much time. It is too far off-route in the timed missions. It could be worth it if a Triad member holds one in just the right spot, but I have very, very little hope that even that time used can be saved later on.

Mountain Cloud Boys: afaik, you dont need to move at all and get teleported to the car, right? i'd like to have this q. answered.
New strat. HQ later, no time. :-)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16863306/Amphibious_Assault_LQ.mp4

Edit:
no HQ because of all the dropped frames. MPG 30fps quali50 is fine though, so no slideshows in the future. :-) "HQ" slideshow is available, though. :-)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16863306/Amphibious_Assault_LQ%2B.mp4
comments:

reason for the order: first shoot 2nd farthest boat to make lock on the farest one possible, while the rocket is flying, kill the people near you. To blow up the farthest one: just aim in the general direction and wait ~2s (it takes ~1.5s to lock on no matter how exact you aim) - 99.9% consistent.

in the boat: w for 3.5s, then w/d, let go off d using common sense. Before getting out brake for a long time, as this boat has very little friction and would end up too far away otherwise.

This is the only mission where AK sliding saves time, afaik. This very, very probably under no circumstance outweighs the time cost to get an AK (assuming perfect luck, i.e. perfect ak guy spawn). I have missed that fact when recording. Rockets might save some time, though.

100%: should be worth it as well, just adapt where you get out (oyster). Else, running/sliding to chill out (no idea about stamina in 100%) on the containers to reduce the swimming time should help.

not working stuff: Going back to land (easy) and flying the heli would be awesome but it disappears after the water-jump cutscene - 'tis a shame. :-( And there aren't any 'over-powered' ^^ boats nearby either. You can sneak past the first guys, by sneaking behind the containers Home Invasion style but that isn't worth it.

From now on pls copy those details into a text file and read that every time you practice the mission until after reading it again and again 100% is in your memory. Pls don't dumb that stuff down in your notes. :-)

thx, S. :-)

gangs:The waiting time before the spawns is always 10s and the flight time is.

ak-sliding: probably not worth it in SF, saves just a little bit of time but getting an ak takes too much time. It is too far off-route in the timed missions. It could be worth it if a Triad member holds one in just the right spot, but I have very, very little hope that even that time used can be saved later on.

Mountain Cloud Boys: afaik, you dont need to move at all and get teleported to the car, right? i'd like to have this q. answered.
New strat. HQ later, no time. :-)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16863306/Amphibious_Assault_LQ.mp4

[b]Edit:[/b]
no HQ because of all the dropped frames. MPG 30fps quali50 is fine though, so no slideshows in the future. :-) "HQ" slideshow is available, though. :-)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16863306/Amphibious_Assault_LQ%2B.mp4
comments:

reason for the order: first shoot 2nd farthest boat to make lock on the farest one possible, while the rocket is flying, kill the people near you. To blow up the farthest one: just aim in the general direction and wait ~2s (it takes ~1.5s to lock on no matter how exact you aim) - 99.9% consistent.

in the boat: w for 3.5s, then w/d, let go off d using common sense. Before getting out brake for a long time, as this boat has very little friction and would end up too far away otherwise.

This is the only mission where AK sliding saves time, afaik. This very, very probably under no circumstance outweighs the time cost to get an AK (assuming perfect luck, i.e. perfect ak guy spawn). I have missed that fact when recording. Rockets might save some time, though.

100%: should be worth it as well, just adapt where you get out (oyster). Else, running/sliding to chill out (no idea about stamina in 100%) on the containers to reduce the swimming time should help.

not working stuff: Going back to land (easy) and flying the heli would be awesome but it disappears after the water-jump cutscene - 'tis a shame. :-( And there aren't any 'over-powered' ^^ boats nearby either. You can sneak past the first guys, by sneaking behind the containers Home Invasion style but that isn't worth it.

From now on pls copy those details into a text file and read that every time you practice the mission until after reading it again and again 100% is in your memory. Pls don't dumb that stuff down in your notes. :-)

Nixixix

Edit history:

Nixixix: 2013-03-25 02:28:07 pm

2013-03-25 08:16:23 am

Gang war timings:

start the war – after 10 seconds: 1st wave appears
wave killed – after 10 seconds: next wave appears
exceed 50 meters distance to the area – after 10 seconds: "get back into the war zone" – after 20 more seconds: "you fled the fight"

Fleeing has the same effect as starting a mission (proper one or something like vigilante). I.e. if you get the "you fled" after killing two waves, the territory counts as yours as far as enabling the final mission is concerned. But as I previously posted, the missions that involve territory takeovers don't accept that as taken.

The enemies always spawn quite exactly 50 meters from you, at least when there's such a spot available. They only spawn on streets and some other paths, and prefer not to spawn in the camera's view (a roughly 90 degree arc). Placing 100 m wide circles on the map helps finding spots where to stand and look in a given direction, to force them to spawn all in one place. Somewhere where you can shoot them, preferably... Combining this with using the third wave from the previous territory to start a war takes away most of the randomness from gang wars.

I made a video of a segment that contains Beat Down On B-Dup, Grove 4 Life, and some territories in between. Some notes are in the video description. I did plenty of restarts for my own mistakes and random events like no gang members to start a war, but the strats themselves are reliable and should work in single-segment too, at least in theory.

Anyway, for SS runners, it's not a high priority to memorize an exact sequence of spots where the spawns are optimal, as two separate groups aren't radically slower to kill. Just make sure they don't spawn behind obstacles. In fact, standing in intersections (but out of traffic's way) to guarantee lines of fire is a good fool-proof strat. While that practically guarantees separate spawns, it's better than standing slightly off an optimal spot and getting all spawns on one side but some of them behind a corner.

For a totally optimized segmented run, the 10 second waiting periods before third waves are long enough that it's probably worth it to cancel the wars right after the second wave and untiringly luck manipulate finding the enemies to start the next war. An average time under 10 seconds probably isn't all that hard to come by. Of course that means taking the second wave already standing in the next zone.

In the video I exploit (for minimal time saved) the fact that a mission marker (the one that starts Grove 4 Life) isn't triggered while aiming. I wonder if there are bigger uses for it elsewhere.

Gang war timings:

start the war – after 10 seconds: 1st wave appears
wave killed – after 10 seconds: next wave appears
exceed 50 meters distance to the area – after 10 seconds: "get back into the war zone" – after 20 more seconds: "you fled the fight"

Fleeing has the same effect as starting a mission (proper one or something like vigilante). I.e. if you get the "you fled" after killing two waves, the territory counts as yours as far as enabling the final mission is concerned. But as I previously posted, the missions that involve territory takeovers don't accept that as taken.

The enemies always spawn quite exactly 50 meters from you, at least when there's such a spot available. They only spawn on streets and some other paths, and prefer not to spawn in the camera's view (a roughly 90 degree arc). Placing 100 m wide circles on the map helps finding spots where to stand and look in a given direction, to force them to spawn all in one place. Somewhere where you can shoot them, preferably... Combining this with using the third wave from the previous territory to start a war takes away most of the randomness from gang wars.

I made a [url=http://youtu.be/DUHZ9oA7mV0]video[/url] of a segment that contains Beat Down On B-Dup, Grove 4 Life, and some territories in between. Some notes are in the video description. I did plenty of restarts for my own mistakes and random events like no gang members to start a war, but the strats themselves are reliable and should work in single-segment too, at least in theory.

Anyway, for SS runners, it's not a high priority to memorize an exact sequence of spots where the spawns are optimal, as two separate groups aren't radically slower to kill. Just make sure they don't spawn behind obstacles. In fact, standing in intersections (but out of traffic's way) to guarantee lines of fire is a good fool-proof strat. While that practically guarantees separate spawns, it's better than standing slightly off an optimal spot and getting all spawns on one side but some of them behind a corner.

For a totally optimized segmented run, the 10 second waiting periods before third waves are long enough that it's probably worth it to cancel the wars right after the second wave and untiringly luck manipulate finding the enemies to start the next war. An average time under 10 seconds probably isn't all that hard to come by. Of course that means taking the second wave already standing in the next zone.

In the video I exploit (for minimal time saved) the fact that a mission marker (the one that starts Grove 4 Life) isn't triggered while aiming. I wonder if there are bigger uses for it elsewhere.

S.

2013-03-26 10:27:01 am

How would you draw "100 meter wide circles" on a map that doesn't have a scale and if it would, it would've probably been incorrect?