GTA San Andreas Official Thread

2010-03-16 06:08:13 pm

Currently occupying the grey area.

He did say single segment. I assume that the run through is practise for that.

2011-02-08 03:24:00 pm

Hey CannibalK9,
I have got some questions and would be very grateful if you answered them. Others are very welcome to answer most of these questions, too:
- You have not used your molotovs from C.R.A.S.H. in "The Green Sabre"?
- Buy 20-30 grenades in the Small Town Bank mission were you buy Tec9 anyway for "Are you going to SF" and other missions?
- Drive-by with the machine pistols everywere and constantly to get skill(you need to hit sth. to get skill)?
- Having 1-2 stars constantly to get polive vehicles (get rid of them before calls)?
- "Outrider": After the last roadblock: Use the time to put an NRG-500 into the garage, taking an armor on the way?
Accelerating a few seconds before the van is at destination?
- "Snail Trail": You have arround 4 min before arrival.
Pass "The Da Nang Thang" (were you lose your weapons) earlier and buy a hundret grenades and 1,000 mp-ammo? Put an NRG-500 into the garage? After collecting the rocket launcher at SF airport fly to LS airport, maybe there is a heli? or somewere else
- "Fender Ketchup" and so on: get a hydra from Area XX (one step away from the abandoned airstrip), maybe save to get rid of police?
- "Ice Cold Killa": Shoot the tire of Jizzys car and damage it with a rocket a few meters next to it before entering the club? Then when you are chasing him shoot him, then get to your bike and then drive-by him from it?
- "Verticle Bird": Could you have jumped into
- Killing Big Smoke: What about grenades bought at "Snail
Trail"?
- "Wrong Sode of the Tracks": Get on the train with the Sanchez and run them over?
-"Los Sepulcros": Recrute the members while going toward the door?
- Use grenades for gang territories?
- Park a bike in the garage for gang territories?
- Why did you use the quad bike in that Catilina mission? How much have you tried alternatives?
- "Freefall";"Wrong Side of the Tracks": Were headshots completely pointless?

- Did you try nearly every button to skip cutscenes?
- How long have you spent on research about the game and how much did you find out yourself(for example you didn't know that shooting without hitting brings no skill, I think you were too lazy to try that)?
- Do you care about your health condition to be concentrated good (nutrition, sleep, sport, power napping before playing)?
- How long did you play at once? How long did the whole run take to make (in 10h; tries)? How many <30s tries did you make?

- You did not always give yours all (hundred percent)? To save. energy for the hard parts?
- Did you train things specifically (reaction time; specific jumps like at Tagging Up Turf; shooting the train ("Wrong Side of the Tracks")?

Thank you again. :-D
Greatings, dunno (or potato)...

Hey CannibalK9,
I have got some questions and would be very grateful if you answered them. Others are very welcome to answer most of these questions, too:
- You have not used your molotovs from C.R.A.S.H. in "The Green Sabre"?
- Buy 20-30 grenades in the Small Town Bank mission were you buy Tec9 anyway for "Are you going to SF" and other missions?
- Drive-by with the machine pistols everywere and constantly to get skill(you need to hit sth. to get skill)?
- Having 1-2 stars constantly to get polive vehicles (get rid of them before calls)?
- "Outrider": After the last roadblock: Use the time to put an NRG-500 into the garage, taking an armor on the way?
Accelerating a few seconds before the van is at destination?
- "Snail Trail": You have arround 4 min before arrival.
Pass "The Da Nang Thang" (were you lose your weapons) earlier and buy a hundret grenades and 1,000 mp-ammo? Put an NRG-500 into the garage? After collecting the rocket launcher at SF airport fly to LS airport, maybe there is a heli? or somewere else
- "Fender Ketchup" and so on: get a hydra from Area XX (one step away from the abandoned airstrip), maybe save to get rid of police?
- "Ice Cold Killa": Shoot the tire of Jizzys car and damage it with a rocket a few meters next to it before entering the club? Then when you are chasing him shoot him, then get to your bike and then drive-by him from it?
- "Verticle Bird": Could you have jumped into 
- Killing Big Smoke: What about grenades bought at "Snail
Trail"?
- "Wrong Sode of the Tracks": Get on the train with the Sanchez and run them over?
-"Los Sepulcros": Recrute the members while going toward the door?
- Use grenades for gang territories?
- Park a bike in the garage for gang territories?
- Why did you use the quad bike in that Catilina mission? How much have you tried alternatives?
- "Freefall";"Wrong Side of the Tracks": Were headshots completely pointless?

- Did you try nearly every button to skip cutscenes?
- How long have you spent on research about the game and how much did you find out yourself(for example you didn't know that shooting without hitting brings no skill, I think you were too lazy to try that)?
- Do you care about your health condition to be concentrated good (nutrition, sleep, sport, power napping before playing)?
- How long did you play at once? How long did the whole run take to make (in 10h; tries)? How many <30s tries did you make?

- You did not always give yours all (hundred percent)? To save. energy for the hard parts?
- Did you train things specifically (reaction time; specific jumps like at Tagging Up Turf; shooting the train ("Wrong Side of the Tracks")?
 
Thank you again. :-D
Greatings, dunno (or potato)...

potato

2011-02-08 03:33:44 pm

Oh, how could I have forgotten: Your speedrun is really awesome, absolutely enjoyable. o.O

DJS

2011-02-10 05:11:12 am

wow, realized I havent posted this yet:

CannibalK9

2011-02-10 06:35:46 am

Thank you potato, that's a really interesting set of questions. First off, it has been a while since I played the game and I've no time or desire to re-do it, but some of those points do sound like improvements.

The general use of grenades is something I barely considered, since accurately getting headshots is rarely a problem on PC. That explains the Green Sabre, but for clusters of enemies such as when gaining territories I think it could really help. With the way the boss worked in vice city I'm fairly sure grenades would have little effect against Big Smoke, but certainly worth a try as I did not test it myself.

Machine pistol skill is not massively useful due to the accuracy (except for Big Smoke, by which point I've mastered it), and there isn't any time when the skill increase would outweigh the hindrance of wanted stars gained by shooting pedestrians.

Thinking back, I'm sure I only just arrived at the destination in "Outrider" on time, so detouring wider for the bike is probably not worth it with how easy sports bikes are to find. There's a similar situation in "Snail Trail"; he won't get off the train until you get nearby, so although I messed around to some extent I don't think it would give enough time to do any of those things. Perhaps if there's a gun store near where he waits for a taxi...

I do like your plan for taking down Jizzy, and the prospect of using a Hydra instead of the Hunter is quite exciting. I sure as hell couldn't steer it but with practice it could improve things hugely.

If there's a way to get onto the train in "Wrong Side Of The Tracks" then I'm not sure why it didn't occur to me, that sounds fun. Although the train would still end further down the line so it's probably not as efficient. And yes the enemies in those two missions are impervious to instant headshotisis.

The only vehicle that would've been able to handle the terrain better than the quadbike would be a regular bike, and you don't start with one of those! There also aren't any nearby roads that regularly spawn them as far as I remember.

I'm pretty sure I did all I could to skip cutscenes. I did not research many things at all... just looks at it until something worked itself out, which lead to some trouble at some parts but overall I got quite lucky. If I had started a run immediately after that one I could've improved it but I was sincerely burnt out on GTA by then (well, after the vice city single-segment at least).

I am a naturally healthy person, and never played for longer than an hour or so at a time so concentration was easy to maintain. I frequently played when tired but then a trance-like state is quite helpful when playing the GTA games. Special preparation never even occurred to me, it's just a hobby.

How long did it take... well certain segments took me at least 10 hours worth of cumulative time all by themselves, I did a bit a day for however long it took, and I wouldn't be surprised if my attempts were around twenty times as long as the run itself ended up being, what a huge timesink!

There were many methods I could've used that would be faster but would leave me with too little health to carry on, so yes I held back at times, a necessary compromise, any improvements there basically boil down to 'be better at the game'. I never trained for anything. My experience with the GTA3 and vice city runs was all the preparation I needed, and with certain tricks it was just a case of knowing exactly what to do then repeating them until it all worked at once. Once I found that I could shoot the train and kill the driver I tried many times to recreate it until I worked out exactly how it was triggered then started attempting a run. There's nothing worse than pulling something off flawlessly and having to re-do it simply because 'it wasn't a proper attempt'.

Glad you enjoyed it, and I do hope someone has a shot at improving it, since I like watching someone pull apart a game that I like and it's all the better when it's one that I'm overly familiar with.

Thank you potato, that's a really interesting set of questions. First off, it has been a while since I played the game and I've no time or desire to re-do it, but some of those points do sound like improvements.

The general use of grenades is something I barely considered, since accurately getting headshots is rarely a problem on PC. That explains the Green Sabre, but for clusters of enemies such as when gaining territories I think it could really help. With the way the boss worked in vice city I'm fairly sure grenades would have little effect against Big Smoke, but certainly worth a try as I did not test it myself.

Machine pistol skill is not massively useful due to the accuracy (except for Big Smoke, by which point I've mastered it), and there isn't any time when the skill increase would outweigh the hindrance of wanted stars gained by shooting pedestrians.

Thinking back, I'm sure I only just arrived at the destination in "Outrider" on time, so detouring wider for the bike is probably not worth it with how easy sports bikes are to find. There's a similar situation in "Snail Trail"; he won't get off the train until you get nearby, so although I messed around to some extent I don't think it would give enough time to do any of those things. Perhaps if there's a gun store near where he waits for a taxi...

I do like your plan for taking down Jizzy, and the prospect of using a Hydra instead of the Hunter is quite exciting. I sure as hell couldn't steer it but with practice it could improve things hugely.

If there's a way to get onto the train in "Wrong Side Of The Tracks" then I'm not sure why it didn't occur to me, that sounds fun. Although the train would still end further down the line so it's probably not as efficient. And yes the enemies in those two missions are impervious to instant headshotisis.

The only vehicle that would've been able to handle the terrain better than the quadbike would be a regular bike, and you don't start with one of those! There also aren't any nearby roads that regularly spawn them as far as I remember.

I'm pretty sure I did all I could to skip cutscenes. I did not research many things at all... just looks at it until something worked itself out, which lead to some trouble at some parts but overall I got quite lucky. If I had started a run immediately after that one I could've improved it but I was sincerely burnt out on GTA by then (well, after the vice city single-segment at least).

I am a naturally healthy person, and never played for longer than an hour or so at a time so concentration was easy to maintain. I frequently played when tired but then a trance-like state is quite helpful when playing the GTA games. Special preparation never even occurred to me, it's just a hobby.

How long did it take... well certain segments took me at least 10 hours worth of cumulative time all by themselves, I did a bit a day for however long it took, and I wouldn't be surprised if my attempts were around twenty times as long as the run itself ended up being, what a huge timesink!

There were many methods I could've used that would be faster but would leave me with too little health to carry on, so yes I held back at times, a necessary compromise, any improvements there basically boil down to 'be better at the game'. I never trained for anything. My experience with the GTA3 and vice city runs was all the preparation I needed, and with certain tricks it was just a case of knowing exactly what to do then repeating them until it all worked at once. Once I found that I could shoot the train and kill the driver I tried many times to recreate it until I worked out exactly how it was triggered then started attempting a run. There's nothing worse than pulling something off flawlessly and having to re-do it simply because 'it wasn't a proper attempt'.

Glad you enjoyed it, and I do hope someone has a shot at improving it, since I like watching someone pull apart a game that I like and it's all the better when it's one that I'm overly familiar with.

tekknej

2011-02-16 10:32:49 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

thanks, DJS, was thinking to rewatch one of the old GTA speedruns. gonna check yours instead )

DJS

2011-02-25 01:10:20 am

torch slug since 2006

Do you guys think its allowed in a single-segment to save the game to advance game time by 6 hours so I can do some missions without waiting 4 minutes for them to become aviable? I guess I should ask Mike about this, but maybe you guys got an answer :p

TheVoid

2011-02-25 02:20:37 am

I'm not sure if it's allowed, it maybe is if you record the save and load in one go but yeah ask Mike.

Can't you do anything in the meantime? Like collecting some stuff or something?

DJS

2011-02-25 02:23:06 am

torch slug since 2006

Quote from TheVoid:

I'm not sure if it's allowed, it maybe is if you record the save and load in one go but yeah ask Mike.

Can't you do anything in the meantime? Like collecting some stuff or something?

My plan was to save, and just continue playing, no need to load since it already advanced the time. But yeah, I could grab some ammo and body armor and "health" meantime, I will need that in a SS.
Not that im thinking of doing an SS but if I would I wanted to know if its allowed :p

Fed981

2011-02-25 08:18:15 am

From what I remember, the rules are : a segment finishes when you save AND quit the game. So I think you can save the game and continue the run, but be sure to prove you did not quit the game.

ridd3r.

2011-02-25 12:01:19 pm

we have lift off

Yeah as long as you're not loading the save it will still be SS. Might as well check though.

DJS

Edit history:

DJS: 2011-03-22 01:21:28 pm

DJS: 2011-03-22 10:40:06 am

DJS: 2011-03-22 10:26:06 am

DJS: 2011-03-22 09:32:27 am

2011-03-22 09:31:15 am

torch slug since 2006

Hmm now I like this game again so might start playing it some more...

Anyway , I am seriosuly considering doing any% single-segment, not like tommorow or something but some time in the future when I feel like it. Until I do that, I will probably do single-segments of cities. Like I already done Los Santos + Badlands in 1 segment (scroll up a bit to see it).
and I will probably do San Fierro in one, Desert in one, Las Venturas in one, and Los santos finale in one...

What do you guys think about this? Would it be intresting?

Another problem I thought off, is that this game is obviously most speedrun friendly on PC because of aiming, load times etc. BUT it isnt very stable (I have it crashing some times, not often but some times). So I might have to consider about Xbox version (Not PS2 though, the load times kills me).
But I still dont wanna do Xbox either because of controls.. but we'll see..

Another thing, If I do single-segments/parts of cities, deaths and mission failures are to expect because this game is very random...

EDIT : I will probably (probably) do this on Xbox, because I just tried PC version, and recording etc and I skipped the cutscenes to fast so it crashed :/ and Xbox version is kinda cool Wink

EDIT2: I got clarification from Mike, saving is allowed aslong as I dont load them !:)

Hmm now I like this game again so might start playing it some more...

Anyway , I am seriosuly considering doing any% single-segment, not like tommorow or something but some time in the future when I feel like it. Until I do that, I will probably do single-segments of cities. Like I already done Los Santos + Badlands in 1 segment (scroll up a bit to see it).
and I will probably do San Fierro in one, Desert in one, Las Venturas in one, and Los santos finale in one...

What do you guys think about this? Would it be intresting?

Another problem I thought off, is that this game is obviously most speedrun friendly on PC because of aiming, load times etc. BUT it isnt very stable (I have it crashing some times, not often but some times). So I might have to consider about Xbox version (Not PS2 though, the load times kills me).
But I still dont wanna do Xbox either because of controls.. but we'll see..

Another thing, If I do single-segments/parts of cities, deaths and mission failures are to expect because this game is very random...

EDIT : I will probably (probably) do this on Xbox, because I just tried PC version, and recording etc and I skipped the cutscenes to fast so it crashed :/ and Xbox version is kinda cool ;)

EDIT2: I got clarification from Mike, saving is allowed aslong as I dont load them !:)

Potato

2011-04-28 05:10:12 pm

Hi,
I have bought the German 18+ version of SA but the PC has become unusable. As soon as I tested and recorded (at 5 FPS?) my attempts to put my ideas to action I am going to post here.
Greetings, some random guy.

DJS

2012-10-14 09:28:59 am

torch slug since 2006

just gonna leave this here in case anyone has 3 hours to waste, and is still interested in "speedruns" of san andreas....
i didnt plan it to be a speedrun, but it turned out pretty fast so whatever.
its more or less a remake of the new game -> san fierro speedrun i posted a couple posts above, but on the original xbox this time, but also doing wear flowers in your hair, 555 we tip, deconstruction, photo oppurtunity and the level 3 swimming you need for amphibious assault.

Joshimuz

2012-10-15 01:10:00 pm

Hello there! I'm glad you posted that yesterday DJS or I would of never found this thread.

I've been planning on doing a GTA:SA SS Any% run for awhile now, ever since I came across the speed running community. I've seen a few things where people ask how to get into speed running, and people reply "Just play your favourite game", and well, what a game I had to like!

As for the reason for SS Any%, well, no one has ever done it (At least, for all I know) and the only Speed runs for any game I initially knew existed were SS, I had no idea you could do a part of the game and then retry later. But I've got into watching live streams of speed runs and they are all SS so I'm a fan of that now I guess...

Anyway, in my attempts at this I've gotten as far as to watch most of CannibalK9's speen run, then plan (Like you did) to do each city/area as a practice segment, and then try the whole game.
A few nights ago I managed to get a run of Los Santos done, although I'm really not happy with it, and I'm trying to improve on it, but at least now have a personal best time to race against. I managed it in 2 hours and 2 seconds.

You can see it here: Part 1: http://www.twitch.tv/joshimuz/b/335684844 Part 2: http://www.twitch.tv/joshimuz/b/335685095

I have no idea if I'll ever complete all of the game in a SS, but I know for sure I at least want to get the (Unofffical?) record for Los Santos, which in CannibalK9's run I've estimated it to be ~1:33:44

I would also love to get an active live racing community going for this game, maybe once a week/month/whatever me and a few guys could get together online on a streaming site and race a random segment of the game (E.g, first to finish Los Santos wins) for fun, prehaps using/using something similar to http://www.speedrunslive.com/ where they have races for different categories and games (But apparently not GTA:SA, according to the game list)

Anyway, thanks for sharing info in this thread, and reviving it yesterday for me to notice Cheesy

Hello there! I'm glad you posted that yesterday DJS or I would of never found this thread.

I've been planning on doing a GTA:SA SS Any% run for awhile now, ever since I came across the speed running community. I've seen a few things where people ask how to get into speed running, and people reply "Just play your favourite game", and well, what a game I had to like!

As for the reason for SS Any%, well, no one has ever done it (At least, for all I know) and the only Speed runs for any game I initially knew existed were SS, I had no idea you could do a part of the game and then retry later. But I've got into watching live streams of speed runs and they are all SS so I'm a fan of that now I guess...

Anyway, in my attempts at this I've gotten as far as to watch most of CannibalK9's speen run, then plan (Like you did) to do each city/area as a practice segment, and then try the whole game.
A few nights ago I managed to get a run of Los Santos done, although I'm really not happy with it, and I'm trying to improve on it, but at least now have a personal best time to race against. I managed it in 2 hours and 2 seconds.

You can see it here: Part 1: http://www.twitch.tv/joshimuz/b/335684844 Part 2: http://www.twitch.tv/joshimuz/b/335685095

I have no idea if I'll ever complete all of the game in a SS, but I know for sure I at least want to get the (Unofffical?) record for Los Santos, which in CannibalK9's run I've estimated it to be ~1:33:44

I would also love to get an active live racing community going for this game, maybe once a week/month/whatever me and a few guys could get together online on a streaming site and race a random segment of the game (E.g, first to finish Los Santos wins) for fun, prehaps using/using something similar to http://www.speedrunslive.com/ where they have races for different categories and games (But apparently not GTA:SA, according to the game list)

Anyway, thanks for sharing info in this thread, and reviving it yesterday for me to notice :D

S.

2012-10-15 02:24:32 pm

Hey Joshimuz. Cool to see someone at least wants to TRY this! I wish you the best of luck and hope this gets through.

I'm surely up for a race, but I cba to learn the any% route :p (as opposed to 100%, of which I started doing a segmented, but its on hold yet again.)
I'd watch your run but don't really have 2 hours to waste, especially since you said you're not too happy with it. I would probably fall asleep.

Keep us updated, and remember: If you need any help, advice or answers just holla!

Joshimuz

Edit history:

Joshimuz: 2012-10-15 06:14:17 pm

2012-10-15 06:07:17 pm

Yeah thanks! I should of explained that better, I didn't expect anyone to watch it, I just wanted to show an example of the stream I guess... I just linked both parts because, well, when I was highlighting it on Twitch.tv it was split into two and I didn't really think about it Tongue

As for racing, I don't think 100% would be wise to race Tongue

An any% Los Santos race would last anything from 1:30:00 to 2:30:00 anyway, I don't know much about 100% but I'm sure it'll be longer Cheesy

Thanks, I'll try, hopefully I'm not just another guy who comes on here saying their going to do SS and then disappear after a week >.< Tbh I'll be happier if I just get a semi-regular race going than being the one to do a SS

Thanks for watching my stream too ^_^

DJS

Edit history:

DJS: 2012-11-11 03:39:26 am

2012-10-17 12:37:34 am

torch slug since 2006

yeah i had plans to do a gta sa any% ss, but im never gonna do it, simply because the first san fierro missions and gang territories bore the shit out of me.
but yeah, good luck. ill try to help.

i think i was in your twitch chat btw (im lambdan on twitch), looked good.
i realized i havent shared this with you guys:

Joshimuz

2013-01-13 02:14:46 pm

Hello again SDA forum community! I know many of you are recovering from AGDQ but I just came here to let you know that I finally completed my Single Segment Any% Run of GTA SA live on Twitch.

I'm currently waiting for Twitch to upload it to youtube but for now here is the Twitch video link! http://www.twitch.tv/joshimuz/c/1834365
Cheesy

I completed the game in a time of 7 hours 48 minutes and 20 seconds. Which is the new world record (since no one has done it)

I'd like to thank everyone who posted in this thread with information/support, even if it was from 4 years ago. I'd also like to thank S a whole bunch, who really helped me learn about the whole speed running thing and aspects of GTA SA <3

So yeah, er, what do I do now? I have the twitch recording but I also recorded pure game footage too. Unfortunately I messed up some settings and I didn't record any audio at all, so I guess I could commentate over it and submit it to SDA, but without game audio I don't think its good to watch (Plus that and the whole, 7 hours thing)

Hello again SDA forum community! I know many of you are recovering from AGDQ but I just came here to let you know that I finally completed my Single Segment Any% Run of GTA SA live on Twitch.

I'm currently waiting for Twitch to upload it to youtube but for now here is the Twitch video link! http://www.twitch.tv/joshimuz/c/1834365 
:D
 
I completed the game in a time of 7 hours 48 minutes and 20 seconds. Which is the new world record (since no one has done it)

I'd like to thank everyone who posted in this thread with information/support, even if it was from 4 years ago. I'd also like to thank S a whole bunch, who really helped me learn about the whole speed running thing and aspects of GTA SA <3

So yeah, er, what do I do now? I have the twitch recording but I also recorded pure game footage too. Unfortunately I messed up some settings and I didn't record any audio at all, so I guess I could commentate over it and submit it to SDA, but without game audio I don't think its good to watch (Plus that and the whole, 7 hours thing)

S.

2013-01-13 02:17:37 pm

SDA requires audio on the videos though :/

Good run!

Joshimuz

2013-01-13 02:17:48 pm

Well crap I forgot to sign in properly... er, if a mod reads this can they delete that post and move it to this one? That'll be great, sorry Q_Q

Nixixix

2013-02-02 07:30:13 am

Hey Joshimuz,

Nice stream you got going! Love seeing skilled (if not pro yet) play of one of my favorite games; especially your flying is a pleasure to watch compared to otherwise great CannibalK9's awkwardness (sorry). You've got the voice for radio, though judging by your cam direction, maybe the face too? Wink

I've watched your full run and a lot of the practice after that (plus some before). I never time my life according to any live broadcasts and like to jump both back and forward (not keen on seeing 555 for the millionth time or every second of swimming), so I've been watching from the Twitch archive. That means no real-time comments from me, so they've been building up.

Because most of your recent practice has been SF, that's mostly what my suggestions are for. I know this isn't the best possible time to get improvements to SF, but hope you can keep them for when you next attack it. I'm also not sure if it's a good idea to dump all this on you at once, but here goes. I'm sure there's more to come when I get to watch more of the other areas. I know I noticed some things in the full run that I don't remember anymore.

You've seen "most of" CannibalK9's run and hopefully listened to the commentary. It wouldn't hurt to watch it again now that you've learned your routes. It's been a while since I last watched it, so I surely don't remember everything relevant, but I've included some things that he seems to do faster than you that don't seem bad for SS. Not that I'd know too well, I'm no speedrunner myself. Also check out sett3's segmented 100% progress on this forum, he's done LS and had among the flawlessness e.g. a very neat execution of the car strat (that you don't use for some reason) in Los Sepulcros. Think he had some useful (for any% SS) new things too that I've forgotten and you should be able to see even more, though the tags mess up a lot of the inter-mission routes.

--- Mission specific strats

Badlands races: Is K9's trick in the turn at end of the first race / beginning of the second one, going on the inside of the little ridge, too unreliable? You seemed to have trouble with that turn without the trick, as well as being slower.

Photo Opportunity (minor): Maybe you have a reason for not using K9's more direct route to Cesar's car from the water? Also, in your great new shortcut, after The Truth's farm right before the road, you seem to go quite a bit up the hill to the left when it's more level to the right. I haven't tried it with that awful car, but I would think it's more stable plus probably a bit faster than the left. Maybe you've tried it already.

Jizzy (minor): Under the freeway, if knocking down the guys with the car(s) doesn't work, I'm pretty sure it's safe to drive-by shoot them which is faster.

T-Bone Mendez: For getting the last package when the first ones didn't take too long, you should always turn to go in the same direction as the guy on the bike before meeting him since he's going towards Jizzy's.

Mike Toreno: I think you can reach the runway and maybe another van spawn as well faster by using the left entrance when the signal meter appears. Maybe you already try to look at it but I don't remember ever seeing you go left.

Outrider: You can most likely get the NRG-500 at the start when you're next to it, and still make it to the first roadblock before the van. That should make it even faster to clear the roadblocks. After that you should check if you can get the heli + missiles in the down time, or if not, maybe just the helicopter. That would leave even more free time during Snail Trail.

Snail Trail: You should definitely use the free time for leveling the lung cap. I think you had almost 2 minutes just waiting for the train to arrive; you will have even more if getting the heli during Outrider works. Minor bonus: turn the heli around for takeoff before landing on the pier.

Heli + missiles (later one, possibly the first one too): Is it really faster to make a detour to get the missiles first with the bike, even though they're on the way with the heli?

--- Lung cap

I gather that only underwater time counts, not swimming. I've seen dinghies on the current swim route often, one right at the start. If it's not always there, I think you could manipulate it to spawn while still on land if you find the right distance. You can make it to the BF Injection much faster by using the oxygen recharge time to drive (sail?) a boat instead of swimming. Obviously that means you get a smaller number of dives, but then it's faster to get the rest at another point in the run. An obvious candidate beside Snail Trail would be during the boat ride to Cesar's car, even though diving will make it slower by much more than just the time spent underwater.

If those times and any additional timed missions you can think of aren't enough, you could just dip in the water for one oxygen bar in some places where the route takes you near water. Not making use of the distance dived isn't a big loss. Fiddling with the frame limiter will kill the time saved though, if it can't be done without. Also, I've often seen you swim farther than necessary before diving the first time, wasting time, but that's probably been you getting distracted with setting up music and such.

--- Flying

When taking off or otherwise going slow, you should keep near to the ground building speed for as long as possible, and only ascend at an angle that already/almost makes you lose speed. I believe this is the major reason for "randomness" in your times in flight school.

For Destroy Targets, you should at least try if you can make use of the 1st person view that actually allows you to aim the rockets. I enjoy playing Brown Thunder in 1st person view with only rockets, that's good practice. You could also try stopping before the trucks since you're going back next anyway, even though what you do isn't too slow when it works without hitting the ground.

You do use jumping out of an aircraft mid-flight, but not always to its full potential. You can exit disposable planes (I guess helicopters too) at full speed with no problems as long as you're near to the ground. Just have some free space for the plane to continue to before it explodes. Smiley

--- Obnoxious suggestions

These are all things that I'd do if I was running it, but that don't directly affect the run time. Just throwing these out there, of course you carry on doing it like you prefer.

I'd segment the practice without caring about the area limits. I'd try to have missions that you need practice with early in a segment and boring / time consuming things like the swimming at the end. Keeping to five segments, I'd extend the Badlands segment to include the swim. At the present there are plenty of things that get no practice at all due to the resets as you're aiming for segment PBs. An even larger number of practice segments might be better if you can manage more save files.

I'd put extra splits at the points where you start a mission after a long drive between missions, just to separate time gained/lost in driving. Some places might call for extra splits mid-mission as well if you have alternate strategies to try.

555 We Tip fails so often, and restarting it wastes *so* much time even using a save that you don't make, that you can't expect to run it like this in the full run? Driving safer also in practice runs might be a good idea.

Just a reminder from your last SF run and Amphibious Assault: You can lose around 25 seconds if you don't remember the start times (that one between 20:00 and 6:00) and save accordingly on the way. I wouldn't consider it cheating to write the time limits in the splits.

---

Hope at least some of this proves useful. Carry on and good luck getting an SDA submittable run at some point!

Hey Joshimuz,

Nice stream you got going! Love seeing skilled (if not pro yet) play of one of my favorite games; especially your flying is a pleasure to watch compared to otherwise great CannibalK9's awkwardness (sorry). You've got the voice for radio, though judging by your cam direction, maybe the face too? ;)

I've watched your full run and a lot of the practice after that (plus some before). I never time my life according to any live broadcasts and like to jump both back and forward (not keen on seeing 555 for the millionth time or every second of swimming), so I've been watching from the Twitch archive. That means no real-time comments from me, so they've been building up.

Because most of your recent practice has been SF, that's mostly what my suggestions are for. I know this isn't the best possible time to get improvements to SF, but hope you can keep them for when you next attack it. I'm also not sure if it's a good idea to dump all this on you at once, but here goes. I'm sure there's more to come when I get to watch more of the other areas. I know I noticed some things in the full run that I don't remember anymore.

You've seen "most of" CannibalK9's run and hopefully listened to the commentary. It wouldn't hurt to watch it again now that you've learned your routes. It's been a while since I last watched it, so I surely don't remember everything relevant, but I've included some things that he seems to do faster than you that don't seem bad for SS. Not that I'd know too well, I'm no speedrunner myself. Also check out sett3's segmented 100% progress on this forum, he's done LS and had among the flawlessness e.g. a very neat execution of the car strat (that you don't use for some reason) in Los Sepulcros. Think he had some useful (for any% SS) new things too that I've forgotten and you should be able to see even more, though the tags mess up a lot of the inter-mission routes.

--- Mission specific strats

Badlands races: Is K9's trick in the turn at end of the first race / beginning of the second one, going on the inside of the little ridge, too unreliable? You seemed to have trouble with that turn without the trick, as well as being slower.

Photo Opportunity (minor): Maybe you have a reason for not using K9's more direct route to Cesar's car from the water? Also, in your great new shortcut, after The Truth's farm right before the road, you seem to go quite a bit up the hill to the left when it's more level to the right. I haven't tried it with that awful car, but I would think it's more stable plus probably a bit faster than the left. Maybe you've tried it already.

Jizzy (minor): Under the freeway, if knocking down the guys with the car(s) doesn't work, I'm pretty sure it's safe to drive-by shoot them which is faster.

T-Bone Mendez: For getting the last package when the first ones didn't take too long, you should always turn to go in the same direction as the guy on the bike before meeting him since he's going towards Jizzy's.

Mike Toreno: I think you can reach the runway and maybe another van spawn as well faster by using the left entrance when the signal meter appears. Maybe you already try to look at it but I don't remember ever seeing you go left.

Outrider: You can most likely get the NRG-500 at the start when you're next to it, and still make it to the first roadblock before the van. That should make it even faster to clear the roadblocks. After that you should check if you can get the heli + missiles in the down time, or if not, maybe just the helicopter. That would leave even more free time during Snail Trail.

Snail Trail: You should definitely use the free time for leveling the lung cap. I think you had almost 2 minutes just waiting for the train to arrive; you will have even more if getting the heli during Outrider works. Minor bonus: turn the heli around for takeoff before landing on the pier.

Heli + missiles (later one, possibly the first one too): Is it really faster to make a detour to get the missiles first with the bike, even though they're on the way with the heli?

--- Lung cap

I gather that only underwater time counts, not swimming. I've seen dinghies on the current swim route often, one right at the start. If it's not always there, I think you could manipulate it to spawn while still on land if you find the right distance. You can make it to the BF Injection much faster by using the oxygen recharge time to drive (sail?) a boat instead of swimming. Obviously that means you get a smaller number of dives, but then it's faster to get the rest at another point in the run. An obvious candidate beside Snail Trail would be during the boat ride to Cesar's car, even though diving will make it slower by much more than just the time spent underwater.

If those times and any additional timed missions you can think of aren't enough, you could just dip in the water for one oxygen bar in some places where the route takes you near water. Not making use of the distance dived isn't a big loss. Fiddling with the frame limiter will kill the time saved though, if it can't be done without. Also, I've often seen you swim farther than necessary before diving the first time, wasting time, but that's probably been you getting distracted with setting up music and such.

--- Flying

When taking off or otherwise going slow, you should keep near to the ground building speed for as long as possible, and only ascend at an angle that already/almost makes you lose speed. I believe this is the major reason for "randomness" in your times in flight school.

For Destroy Targets, you should at least try if you can make use of the 1st person view that actually allows you to aim the rockets. I enjoy playing Brown Thunder in 1st person view with only rockets, that's good practice. You could also try stopping before the trucks since you're going back next anyway, even though what you do isn't too slow when it works without hitting the ground.

You do use jumping out of an aircraft mid-flight, but not always to its full potential. You can exit disposable planes (I guess helicopters too) at full speed with no problems as long as you're near to the ground. Just have some free space for the plane to continue to before it explodes. :)

--- Obnoxious suggestions

These are all things that I'd do if I was running it, but that don't directly affect the run time. Just throwing these out there, of course you carry on doing it like you prefer.

I'd segment the practice without caring about the area limits. I'd try to have missions that you need practice with early in a segment and boring / time consuming things like the swimming at the end. Keeping to five segments, I'd extend the Badlands segment to include the swim. At the present there are plenty of things that get no practice at all due to the resets as you're aiming for segment PBs. An even larger number of practice segments might be better if you can manage more save files.

I'd put extra splits at the points where you start a mission after a long drive between missions, just to separate time gained/lost in driving. Some places might call for extra splits mid-mission as well if you have alternate strategies to try.

555 We Tip fails so often, and restarting it wastes *so* much time even using a save that you don't make, that you can't expect to run it like this in the full run? Driving safer also in practice runs might be a good idea.

Just a reminder from your last SF run and Amphibious Assault: You can lose around 25 seconds if you don't remember the start times (that one between 20:00 and 6:00) and save accordingly on the way. I wouldn't consider it cheating to write the time limits in the splits.

---

Hope at least some of this proves useful. Carry on and good luck getting an SDA submittable run at some point!

Joshimuz

2013-02-02 05:57:23 pm

Oh wow hello, thank you for this, I'll try and format any response to this as well as I can XD

Quote:

Nice stream you got going... especially your flying is a pleasure to watch compared to otherwise great CannibalK9's awkwardness (sorry). You've got the voice for radio, though judging by your cam direction, maybe the face too?

Thank you! I've always loved flying, whether it be in Microsoft Flight Simulator or whatever WW2 flight sim I feel like playing, which is probably why I seem to take to this better than other people have.
Its strange, everyone in the stream seems to love my voice, I hate it, but the only reason I have the cam where it is, is because I don't think I have the personalty to make a face cam work, plus I like to do hand gestures when I talk.

Quote:

I've watched your full run and a lot of the practice after that. I never time my life according to any live broadcasts and like to jump both back and forward (not keen on seeing 555 for the millionth time or every second of swimming), so I've been watching from the Twitch archive.

Yeah, SF (mostly 555 We Tip) is one of the more boring runs, some people love to watch just because I get trolled by it constantly, but its defiantly the worst part of the run. (To play and watch)

Quote:

You've seen "most of" CannibalK9's run and hopefully listened to the commentary.

I've watched all of it, with commentary. Before I started doing this I had it on my phone and watched parts of it every night in bed (Not in a creepy way Q__Q)
I would then watch each city before I learnt it, so my route is completely based around that one, only adjustments happened over practice.
However, like you say I may of missed some things.

Quote:

Also check out sett3's segmented 100% progress on this forum, he's done LS and had among the flawlessness e.g. a very neat execution of the car strat (that you don't use for some reason) in Los Sepulcros. Think he had some useful (for any% SS) new things too that I've forgotten and you should be able to see even more, though the tags mess up a lot of the inter-mission routes.

I haven't actually seen this, I will have a look

Quote:

Badlands races: Is K9's trick in the turn at end of the first race / beginning of the second one, going on the inside of the little ridge, too unreliable?

Everytime I have ever tried it, I have rolled the car over and failed the mission. It only saves a few seconds and I don't think its worth the risk in SS

Quote:

Photo Opportunity (minor): Maybe you have a reason for not using K9's more direct route to Cesar's car from the water?

Yea I've never been able to replicate it, during practice I would always just bounce off the hill and turn to the right, perhaps I'm just not doing it right, but I never have pulled it off, so I used that beach instead.

Quote:

Also, in your great new shortcut, after The Truth's farm right before the road, you seem to go quite a bit up the hill to the left when it's more level to the right. I haven't tried it with that awful car, but I would think it's more stable plus probably a bit faster than the left. Maybe you've tried it already.

I'm not too sure what bit you mean to the right. I use that section (going through Truth's farm) like that a few times in badlands. To the right is the train tracks and a hill which 90% of vechiles cannot drive up. I found that route to be the best, unless I've missed something

Quote:

Jizzy (minor): Under the freeway, if knocking down the guys with the car(s) doesn't work, I'm pretty sure it's safe to drive-by shoot them which is faster.

I think people in the chat always point this out too, I don't do it due to a mix of unpredictable car direction (It can spin out when hitting the guy/van) and me forgetting to try it every time Tongue

Quote:

T-Bone Mendez: For getting the last package when the first ones didn't take too long, you should always turn to go in the same direction as the guy on the bike before meeting him since he's going towards Jizzy's.

Yeah your right, I only realised that he goes right outside Jizzy's a few days ago after failing the mission constantly, I don't think I actually got a successful one since, so I haven't been able to do it yet

Quote:

Mike Toreno: I think you can reach the runway and maybe another van spawn as well faster by using the left entrance when the signal meter appears. Maybe you already try to look at it but I don't remember ever seeing you go left.

Your right, I just always turn to the right because the spawn on the right side of the airport is the best, and I always hope he's there XD But yes, the other 2 spawns are to the left and saving time on ones that may take longer is probably better.

Quote:

Outrider: You can most likely get the NRG-500 at the start when you're next to it, and still make it to the first roadblock before the van. That should make it even faster to clear the roadblocks. After that you should check if you can get the heli + missiles in the down time, or if not, maybe just the helicopter. That would leave even more free time during Snail Trail.

You might be right here, but sometimes the bike can get damaged/destroyed during the mission either due to traffic going crazy, the road block guys shooting it, or me driving through the fire like an idiot. Either way having the bike for the mission probably wouldn't make it too much faster, as the road blocks are so close. Also, saving time here/next mission isn't too useful because there on set timers. Even with the idea of swimming during them.

Quote:

Snail Trail: You should definitely use the free time for leveling the lung cap. I think you had almost 2 minutes just waiting for the train to arrive; you will have even more if getting the heli during Outrider works.

I was thinking about this quite a lot recently. As you say there is a lot of downtime during these two mission and I could use it for lung cap, however there are a few issues I came up with this idea.
First off, finding a good place to swim during these missions can be tricky. I was looking around a few days ago for a good spot during Outrider, but I the only nearest spot is a bit far, too far to really see how close the van is to the mission end, so timing that would be hard. As for Snail Trail, unless I find a suitable location to land near water with the helicopter which is also near the train tracks so I can see how much time I have, I doubt it could work. I don't have too much time to play with really because if I don't get to the train station in time I might "lose" the reporter.
Secondly, doing the lung cap in these sections is an issue, because its after where I would normally do it. If it was before then I could just do as much training as I could fit in, then when I get to Photo Op I could work out how much more swimming I need to do and just drive down the road that much. Which would work really well because there is a road that follows it, and I can just dump whatever vehicle I have. However its not, so what would have to happen is I would guess how much training I need to do in Photo Op, and then hope that I get that much during snail trail.
It would certainly save a good minute or two if I could pull this off however, so it is probably worth trying!

Quote:

Minor bonus: turn the heli around for takeoff before landing on the pier.

I spin the heli around while climbing (or I should at least). This wastes no time, even if I was facing the right way I would still have to gain height until I could go forward.

Quote:

Heli + missiles (later one, possibly the first one too): Is it really faster to make a detour to get the missiles first with the bike, even though they're on the way with the heli?

Landing the heli in that small space is both a risk and probably slower too, as I would have to land (semi carefuly as I still need the heli), get out and then start the engine again. I doubt its faster than the bike, as the bike is quite fast. The heli is only faster because it can fly over terrain/water, but the airport is a straight line too and from missiles and heli.

Quote:

I gather that only underwater time counts, not swimming. I've seen dinghies on the current swim route often, one right at the start. If it's not always there, I think you could manipulate it to spawn while still on land if you find the right distance. You can make it to the BF Injection much faster by using the oxygen recharge time to drive (sail?) a boat instead of swimming. Obviously that means you get a smaller number of dives, but then it's faster to get the rest at another point in the run. An obvious candidate beside Snail Trail would be during the boat ride to Cesar's car, even though diving will make it slower by much more than just the time spent underwater.

Again, I wouldn't know how much time to give myself for later, so I may end up wasting time/not giving myself enough time later. Still would be faster if I could get it working though.
On the way to Cesar's car might be a good place for it, but it would just waste as much time as doing it after the mission anyway, so its probably easier to do it just in one section (With pausing and whatnot)

Quote:

If those times and any additional timed missions you can think of aren't enough, you could just dip in the water for one oxygen bar in some places where the route takes you near water. Not making use of the distance dived isn't a big loss. Fiddling with the frame limiter will kill the time saved though, if it can't be done without.

This would help with the whole, not sure how much time I need thing, however finding a decent detour to swim a bit just makes the run harder, and probably a bit slower too :/

Quote:

Also, I've often seen you swim farther than necessary before diving the first time, wasting time, but that's probably been you getting distracted with setting up music and such.

Yeah those are genuine mistakes, I'm either pumped up ready for space bar smashing action, just forgetting to dive, or too used to just going as fast as possible as you normally do during a speed run. I do hate myself whenever I do this though.

Quote:

When taking off or otherwise going slow, you should keep near to the ground building speed for as long as possible, and only ascend at an angle that already/almost makes you lose speed. I believe this is the major reason for "randomness" in your times in flight school.

Your probably correct, I was wondering what the best time to take off was during the first section of flight school was. I just figured that taking off as soon as possible would be best because it would make my accent angle to the first red circle as shallow as possible, thus letting me keep as much speed during it, and would also allow me to pull my landing gear up as soon as possible, because the game slows you down when you have it out no matter of what actual air resistance should be (I THINK). I may be wrong though, I didn't really think about it too much.

Quote:

For Destroy Targets, you should at least try if you can make use of the 1st person view that actually allows you to aim the rockets. I enjoy playing Brown Thunder in 1st person view with only rockets, that's good practice.

I will defiantly try this, I can do the flight paths blindfolded so not using 3rd person to see where I'm going isn't too big a deal there. However being able to aim the rockets effectively is much more useful.

Quote:

You could also try stopping before the trucks since you're going back next anyway, even though what you do isn't too slow when it works without hitting the ground.

Why didn't I think about this? XD Seems so obvious. I will defiantly try it

Quote:

You do use jumping out of an aircraft mid-flight, but not always to its full potential.

Because I'm too scared of killing myself all the time XD I should probably just do it though, but any flying is late in a SS run, so I'm not too sure if its worth the risk.

Quote:

I'd segment the practice without caring about the area limits.

This is probably a good idea. For instance doing the first mission of SF in the Badlands segment would make soooo much sense because that mission is basically the same time every time...
My splits were only made for each City because I made them way before I actually started practicing the game, so I had no idea where would be good/bad for them, so I just did them at the beginning/end of every city.

Quote:

I'd put extra splits at the points where you start a mission after a long drive between missions, just to separate time gained/lost in driving.

I was actually thinking about this the other day when I first starting doing the Snail Trail strat. I would say to myself "I'm going to save so much time in snail trail!" Only to not save any on that split but save it all on the next one if I didn't mess it up Tongue

Quote:

555 We Tip fails so often, and restarting it wastes *so* much time even using a save that you don't make, that you can't expect to run it like this in the full run? Driving safer also in practice runs might be a good idea.

Playing it safe is easy to do and doesn't require any practice, however at the same time going full speed basically comes down to luck at this point (I guess I practice traffic dodging/prediction etc...)
But your still right, doing this mission over and over again just because I want to beat my splits which at the end of the day aren't even anything important is kind of silly. Just seeing red splits makes me Sad

Quote:

Just a reminder from your last SF run and Amphibious Assault: You can lose around 25 seconds if you don't remember the start times

Every time I do this a puppy dies, however this should just be something I should know and writing down on the splits is embarising XD

Quote:

Hope at least some of this proves useful. Carry on and good luck getting an SDA submittable run at some point!

Thank you very much, I really didn't expect this when I checked this page today XD I'll try to remember all this, however as anyone who has recommend anything in that chat and S know, I normally forget every time Tongue

And next time I spend 7-8 hours of my life speed running a game, I won't fuck up the recording. Q______Q

Oh wow hello, thank you for this, I'll try and format any response to this as well as I can XD

[quote]Nice stream you got going... especially your flying is a pleasure to watch compared to otherwise great CannibalK9's awkwardness (sorry). You've got the voice for radio, though judging by your cam direction, maybe the face too? [/quote]
Thank you! I've always loved flying, whether it be in Microsoft Flight Simulator or whatever WW2 flight sim I feel like playing, which is probably why I seem to take to this better than other people have.
Its strange, everyone in the stream seems to love my voice, I hate it, but the only reason I have the cam where it is, is because I don't think I have the personalty to make a face cam work, plus I like to do hand gestures when I talk.

[quote]I've watched your full run and a lot of the practice after that. I never time my life according to any live broadcasts and like to jump both back and forward (not keen on seeing 555 for the millionth time or every second of swimming), so I've been watching from the Twitch archive.[/quote]
Yeah, SF (mostly 555 We Tip) is one of the more boring runs, some people love to watch just because I get trolled by it constantly, but its defiantly the worst part of the run. (To play and watch)

[quote]You've seen "most of" CannibalK9's run and hopefully listened to the commentary.[/quote]
I've watched all of it, with commentary. Before I started doing this I had it on my phone and watched parts of it every night in bed (Not in a creepy way Q__Q)
I would then watch each city before I learnt it, so my route is completely based around that one, only adjustments happened over practice. 
However, like you say I may of missed some things.

[quote]Also check out sett3's segmented 100% progress on this forum, he's done LS and had among the flawlessness e.g. a very neat execution of the car strat (that you don't use for some reason) in Los Sepulcros. Think he had some useful (for any% SS) new things too that I've forgotten and you should be able to see even more, though the tags mess up a lot of the inter-mission routes.[/quote]
I haven't actually seen this, I will have a look

[quote]Badlands races: Is K9's trick in the turn at end of the first race / beginning of the second one, going on the inside of the little ridge, too unreliable?[/quote]
Everytime I have ever tried it, I have rolled the car over and failed the mission. It only saves a few seconds and I don't think its worth the risk in SS

[quote]Photo Opportunity (minor): Maybe you have a reason for not using K9's more direct route to Cesar's car from the water?[/quote]
Yea I've never been able to replicate it, during practice I would always just bounce off the hill and turn to the right, perhaps I'm just not doing it right, but I never have pulled it off, so I used that beach instead.

[quote]Also, in your great new shortcut, after The Truth's farm right before the road, you seem to go quite a bit up the hill to the left when it's more level to the right. I haven't tried it with that awful car, but I would think it's more stable plus probably a bit faster than the left. Maybe you've tried it already.[/quote]
I'm not too sure what bit you mean to the right. I use that section (going through Truth's farm) like that a few times in badlands. To the right is the train tracks and a hill which 90% of vechiles cannot drive up. I found that route to be the best, unless I've missed something

[quote]Jizzy (minor): Under the freeway, if knocking down the guys with the car(s) doesn't work, I'm pretty sure it's safe to drive-by shoot them which is faster.[/quote]
I think people in the chat always point this out too, I don't do it due to a mix of unpredictable car direction (It can spin out when hitting the guy/van) and me forgetting to try it every time :P

[quote]T-Bone Mendez: For getting the last package when the first ones didn't take too long, you should always turn to go in the same direction as the guy on the bike before meeting him since he's going towards Jizzy's.[/quote]
Yeah your right, I only realised that he goes right outside Jizzy's a few days ago after failing the mission constantly, I don't think I actually got a successful one since, so I haven't been able to do it yet

[quote]Mike Toreno: I think you can reach the runway and maybe another van spawn as well faster by using the left entrance when the signal meter appears. Maybe you already try to look at it but I don't remember ever seeing you go left.[/quote]
Your right, I just always turn to the right because the spawn on the right side of the airport is the best, and I always hope he's there XD But yes, the other 2 spawns are to the left and saving time on ones that may take longer is probably better.

[quote]Outrider: You can most likely get the NRG-500 at the start when you're next to it, and still make it to the first roadblock before the van. That should make it even faster to clear the roadblocks. After that you should check if you can get the heli + missiles in the down time, or if not, maybe just the helicopter. That would leave even more free time during Snail Trail.[/quote]
You might be right here, but sometimes the bike can get damaged/destroyed during the mission either due to traffic going crazy, the road block guys shooting it, or me driving through the fire like an idiot. Either way having the bike for the mission probably wouldn't make it too much faster, as the road blocks are so close. Also, saving time here/next mission isn't too useful because there on set timers. Even with the idea of swimming during them.

[quote]Snail Trail: You should definitely use the free time for leveling the lung cap. I think you had almost 2 minutes just waiting for the train to arrive; you will have even more if getting the heli during Outrider works.[/quote]
I was thinking about this quite a lot recently. As you say there is a lot of downtime during these two mission and I could use it for lung cap, however there are a few issues I came up with this idea. 
First off, finding a good place to swim during these missions can be tricky. I was looking around a few days ago for a good spot during Outrider, but I the only nearest spot is a bit far, too far to really see how close the van is to the mission end, so timing that would be hard. As for Snail Trail, unless I find a suitable location to land near water with the helicopter which is also near the train tracks so I can see how much time I have, I doubt it could work. I don't have too much time to play with really because if I don't get to the train station in time I might "lose" the reporter. 
Secondly, doing the lung cap in these sections is an issue, because its after where I would normally do it. If it was before then I could just do as much training as I could fit in, then when I get to Photo Op I could work out how much more swimming I need to do and just drive down the road that much. Which would work really well because there is a road that follows it, and I can just dump whatever vehicle I have. However its not, so what would have to happen is I would guess how much training I need to do in Photo Op, and then hope that I get that much during snail trail. 
It would certainly save a good minute or two if I could pull this off however, so it is probably worth trying!

[quote]Minor bonus: turn the heli around for takeoff before landing on the pier.[/quote]
I spin the heli around while climbing (or I should at least). This wastes no time, even if I was facing the right way I would still have to gain height until I could go forward.

[quote]Heli + missiles (later one, possibly the first one too): Is it really faster to make a detour to get the missiles first with the bike, even though they're on the way with the heli?[/quote]
Landing the heli in that small space is both a risk and probably slower too, as I would have to land (semi carefuly as I still need the heli), get out and then start the engine again. I doubt its faster than the bike, as the bike is quite fast. The heli is only faster because it can fly over terrain/water, but the airport is a straight line too and from missiles and heli.

[quote]I gather that only underwater time counts, not swimming. I've seen dinghies on the current swim route often, one right at the start. If it's not always there, I think you could manipulate it to spawn while still on land if you find the right distance. You can make it to the BF Injection much faster by using the oxygen recharge time to drive (sail?) a boat instead of swimming. Obviously that means you get a smaller number of dives, but then it's faster to get the rest at another point in the run. An obvious candidate beside Snail Trail would be during the boat ride to Cesar's car, even though diving will make it slower by much more than just the time spent underwater.[/quote]
Again, I wouldn't know how much time to give myself for later, so I may end up wasting time/not giving myself enough time later. Still would be faster if I could get it working though.
On the way to Cesar's car might be a good place for it, but it would just waste as much time as doing it after the mission anyway, so its probably easier to do it just in one section (With pausing and whatnot)

[quote]If those times and any additional timed missions you can think of aren't enough, you could just dip in the water for one oxygen bar in some places where the route takes you near water. Not making use of the distance dived isn't a big loss. Fiddling with the frame limiter will kill the time saved though, if it can't be done without.[/quote]
This would help with the whole, not sure how much time I need thing, however finding a decent detour to swim a bit just makes the run harder, and probably a bit slower too :/

[quote]Also, I've often seen you swim farther than necessary before diving the first time, wasting time, but that's probably been you getting distracted with setting up music and such.[/quote]
Yeah those are genuine mistakes, I'm either pumped up ready for space bar smashing action, just forgetting to dive, or too used to just going as fast as possible as you normally do during a speed run. I do hate myself whenever I do this though.

[quote]When taking off or otherwise going slow, you should keep near to the ground building speed for as long as possible, and only ascend at an angle that already/almost makes you lose speed. I believe this is the major reason for "randomness" in your times in flight school.[/quote]
Your probably correct, I was wondering what the best time to take off was during the first section of flight school was. I just figured that taking off as soon as possible would be best because it would make my accent angle to the first red circle as shallow as possible, thus letting me keep as much speed during it, and would also allow me to pull my landing gear up as soon as possible, because the game slows you down when you have it out no matter of what actual air resistance should be (I THINK). I may be wrong though, I didn't really think about it too much.

[quote]For Destroy Targets, you should at least try if you can make use of the 1st person view that actually allows you to aim the rockets. I enjoy playing Brown Thunder in 1st person view with only rockets, that's good practice.[/quote]
I will defiantly try this, I can do the flight paths blindfolded so not using 3rd person to see where I'm going isn't too big a deal there. However being able to aim the rockets effectively is much more useful.

[quote]You could also try stopping before the trucks since you're going back next anyway, even though what you do isn't too slow when it works without hitting the ground.[/quote]
Why didn't I think about this? XD Seems so obvious. I will defiantly try it

[quote]You do use jumping out of an aircraft mid-flight, but not always to its full potential.[/quote]
Because I'm too scared of killing myself all the time XD I should probably just do it though, but any flying is late in a SS run, so I'm not too sure if its worth the risk.

[quote]I'd segment the practice without caring about the area limits.[/quote]
This is probably a good idea. For instance doing the first mission of SF in the Badlands segment would make soooo much sense because that mission is basically the same time every time...
My splits were only made for each City because I made them way before I actually started practicing the game, so I had no idea where would be good/bad for them, so I just did them at the beginning/end of every city.

[quote]I'd put extra splits at the points where you start a mission after a long drive between missions, just to separate time gained/lost in driving.[/quote]
I was actually thinking about this the other day when I first starting doing the Snail Trail strat. I would say to myself "I'm going to save so much time in snail trail!" Only to not save any on that split but save it all on the next one if I didn't mess it up :P

[quote]555 We Tip fails so often, and restarting it wastes *so* much time even using a save that you don't make, that you can't expect to run it like this in the full run? Driving safer also in practice runs might be a good idea.[/quote]
Playing it safe is easy to do and doesn't require any practice, however at the same time going full speed basically comes down to luck at this point (I guess I practice traffic dodging/prediction etc...)
But your still right, doing this mission over and over again just because I want to beat my splits which at the end of the day aren't even anything important is kind of silly. Just seeing red splits makes me :(

[quote]Just a reminder from your last SF run and Amphibious Assault: You can lose around 25 seconds if you don't remember the start times[/quote]
Every time I do this a puppy dies, however this should just be something I should know and writing down on the splits is embarising XD

[quote]Hope at least some of this proves useful. Carry on and good luck getting an SDA submittable run at some point![/quote]
Thank you very much, I really didn't expect this when I checked this page today XD I'll try to remember all this, however as anyone who has recommend anything in that chat and S know, I normally forget every time :P 
And next time I spend 7-8 hours of my life speed running a game, I won't fuck up the recording. Q______Q

S.

2013-02-02 07:07:15 pm

Quote:

however as anyone who has recommend anything in that chat and S know, I normally forget every time

So did you check out the Management Issues thing yet? :p

Nixixix

Edit history:

Nixixix: 2013-02-02 11:21:48 pm

2013-02-02 10:53:25 pm

No surprise that I'm repeating things that are common in the chat, as I only hear your responses to them. Smiley

Yeah I don't care about the cam, I'm watching the action instead.

I had no idea how hard K9's tricks are and they manage to look easy when successful. Surely the boat landing trick in Photo Op depends on the direction of approach as well as the spot of shore hit. I wouldn't be surprised if the frame limiter also screws you over in things like this.

Quote from Joshimuz:

(Photo Op) I'm not too sure what bit you mean to the right.

In the end of the shortcut, after the farm, in the very last bit when arriving to the road (before turning right to the road), I'd try taking a line more to the right by just 5–10 meters. There's some trees to avoid but the ground seems nicer. Maybe not with that car at speed.

I was looking for a safe route to replace the cliff jump just before you found yours. I was going down to the farm from the high road (making it much slower than your new route) but used that same passage to the road in the end, and I didn't even think of going that much to the left.

Quote:

(Mike Toreno) Your right, I just always turn to the right because the spawn on the right side of the airport is the best, and I always hope he's there XD But yes, the other 2 spawns are to the left and saving time on ones that may take longer is probably better.

I'm not saying always go left, although I guess that would be more consistent between van spawns than always going right, but find an approach where you can tell from the early position and movement of the distance indicator which way to go.

Quote:

(Outrider, NRG-500 at the start) You might be right here, but sometimes the bike can get damaged/destroyed during the mission either due to traffic going crazy, the road block guys shooting it, or me driving through the fire like an idiot. Either way having the bike for the mission probably wouldn't make it too much faster, as the road blocks are so close. Also, saving time here/next mission isn't too useful because there on set timers. Even with the idea of swimming during them.

If it gets destroyed, which can't be all that often really (?), you only lose the time of getting it minus what its speed saved. And that time is not from the total run, just from the extra time when waiting for the van. If the bike isn't destroyed, you win the difference to the time that it would take to get it in the end (from a longer distance) plus some more. If that enables you to get the heli, you win direct total time as well due to the swimming. If not, maybe you can get one more bike to the garage for later, or some armor.

Why are you saying that time saved for ST isn't useful if spent swimming? If you get an extra dive during a timed bit, the time it takes to dive and recharge oxygen is directly away from the total time, no? (also see below) So, apart from a sort of rounding, every second of extra free time within the timed part is won in the total time once the fixed costs for starting to swim are deducted.

I agree that there's no really good spot for swimming during Outrider. Doesn't the train always take the same time though? Just look at your split time and you can do the swimming anywhere with a beach to land at. Of course you'll also have to time the flight from there to the station and find out at what time you actually need to be there.

When you argue against my swimming suggestions, I'm not sure if you have an alternative in mind. I hope we can at least agree that the current setup is losing time compared to almost anything.

You can make the current swim route faster with a boat while still getting the maximum possible dives per minute. Doing the full upgrade swimming in there has exactly the same effects as first passing the distance diving from the boat in let's say 2 minutes (I tried it but didn't time it exactly, I think it was only 4 or 5 dives), then hanging around next to the BFI the next 5 minutes trodding water between dives. For trodding water, there's nothing to make that a better spot than other places with access to water, but the clock is ticking and not only for the dives, but the recharging as well.

The reason that diving during the boat ride to Cesar saves time is not that the diving takes you forward (although that too if you can leave the boat at a good speed), but that the time recharging oxygen is spent moving fast. Some of it is spent climbing to/from the boat, and driving the boat in short bursts is slower than all in one go, but still most of the recharging comes free on top of the boat ride you would take anyway.

My suggestion: Do the 2 minutes of swimming on the current route with the boat and let's guess 3 minutes on the way to Cesar. When 'following' the train, let's say just 1 minute more. Then you might still need another minute. You could do it after Snail Trail and still be seriously faster than the current way. It's even better to add it to some previous bit of swimming, just not the timed one in Snail Trail. You could do the missing dives where you currently swim if you like. Even better would be other places near the water where you can save time by not being in the water for the oxygen recharge, even though some of the saved time immediately goes to pay for the detour to the water. Either way, you'd just have to know how many dives you are guaranteed to get later and how many in total are required. To make it easy, you could just do a run where you do the missing diving by landing near water after Snail Trail. Counting how many dives you needed there, you could do the same amount (or one more for safety) earlier in the next run.

Fiddling with the frame limiter for each swimming section is a problem though. If you turn it on at the start of Photo Opportunity, maybe you could live with bleeding eyes for that mission, as the next swim is right after. In Snail Trail, every second diving (and recharging) is a second off the total time, so of course you do it with the fiddling if you can't do it without. Maybe limiting the FPS to 60 somehow would make it possible to swim? I have no idea what the problem with the frame rate is. ETA: I think it was that the oxygen bar shrinks proportionally faster? If it also recharges faster, it's still a problem but I guess only where the recharge time is not spent in the water.

I haven't tried diving during the boat ride to Cesar because I don't have saves from the beginning of the game right now and don't feel like playing LS. Getting from the water to the boat and vice versa could be slow enough (taking away from the time driving the boat for each dive) and the distance long enough that you don't need any extra diving, maybe even not all that way. I think you'll want to max out the current swimming route and Snail Trail in that case, only diving here as much as necessary.

Quote:

I spin the heli around while climbing (or I should at least). This wastes no time, even if I was facing the right way I would still have to gain height until I could go forward.

It looked like you could have gone forward earlier, maybe not by much.

Quote:

I doubt its faster than the bike, as the bike is quite fast. The heli is only faster because it can fly over terrain/water, but the airport is a straight line too and from missiles and heli.

Sure. But you go from A to B to C with the bike, then fly over B with the heli. Going directly from A to C with the bike is a much shorter distance, but I wouldn't know if the time lost in landing + taking off the heli near B is more than what's saved. I can test this myself at some point.

Quote:

Your probably correct, I was wondering what the best time to take off was during the first section of flight school was. I just figured that taking off as soon as possible would be best because it would make my accent angle to the first red circle as shallow as possible, thus letting me keep as much speed during it, and would also allow me to pull my landing gear up as soon as possible, because the game slows you down when you have it out no matter of what actual air resistance should be (I THINK).

Definitely take off from the ground and pull the landing gear ASAP, but stay next to the ground after that. The optimal time for starting the ascent obviously depends on the position of the target corona and how useful speed is after that. I have the feeling though that even to maximize speed at the corona (ignoring the time to get there), you don't want to fly to it in a straight line. This is especially true if you can reach the max speed of the aircraft flying horizontally and then maintain it while ascending. Haven't seen the physics code for the game though (it must be awesome Wink

) so experimentation and playing by ear is required.

Jumping from planes at speed may take a little bit of practice but I don't find it risky at all. Doing it consistently without losing health at all is no problem. It's probably better to keep the landing gear in to reduce the chances of bouncing from the ground if you hit it.

No surprise that I'm repeating things that are common in the chat, as I only hear your responses to them. :) Yeah I don't care about the cam, I'm watching the action instead.

I had no idea how hard K9's tricks are and they manage to look easy when successful. Surely the boat landing trick in Photo Op depends on the direction of approach as well as the spot of shore hit. I wouldn't be surprised if the frame limiter also screws you over in things like this.

[quote="Joshimuz"](Photo Op) I'm not too sure what bit you mean to the right.[/quote]
In the end of the shortcut, after the farm, in the very last bit when arriving to the road (before turning right to the road), I'd try taking a line more to the right by just 5–10 meters. There's some trees to avoid but the ground seems nicer. Maybe not with that car at speed.

I was looking for a safe route to replace the cliff jump just before you found yours. I was going down to the farm from the high road (making it much slower than your new route) but used that same passage to the road in the end, and I didn't even think of going that much to the left.

[quote](Mike Toreno) Your right, I just always turn to the right because the spawn on the right side of the airport is the best, and I always hope he's there XD But yes, the other 2 spawns are to the left and saving time on ones that may take longer is probably better.[/quote]
I'm not saying always go left, although I guess that would be more consistent between van spawns than always going right, but find an approach where you can tell from the early position and movement of the distance indicator which way to go.

[quote](Outrider, NRG-500 at the start) You might be right here, but sometimes the bike can get damaged/destroyed during the mission either due to traffic going crazy, the road block guys shooting it, or me driving through the fire like an idiot. Either way having the bike for the mission probably wouldn't make it too much faster, as the road blocks are so close. Also, saving time here/next mission isn't too useful because there on set timers. Even with the idea of swimming during them.[/quote]
If it gets destroyed, which can't be all that often really (?), you only lose the time of getting it minus what its speed saved. And that time is not from the total run, just from the extra time when waiting for the van. If the bike isn't destroyed, you win the difference to the time that it would take to get it in the end (from a longer distance) plus some more. If that enables you to get the heli, you win direct total time as well due to the swimming. If not, maybe you can get one more bike to the garage for later, or some armor.

Why are you saying that time saved for ST isn't useful if spent swimming? If you get an extra dive during a timed bit, the time it takes to dive and recharge oxygen is directly away from the total time, no? (also see below) So, apart from a sort of rounding, every second of extra free time within the timed part is won in the total time once the fixed costs for starting to swim are deducted.

I agree that there's no really good spot for swimming during Outrider. Doesn't the train always take the same time though? Just look at your split time and you can do the swimming anywhere with a beach to land at. Of course you'll also have to time the flight from there to the station and find out at what time you actually need to be there.

When you argue against my swimming suggestions, I'm not sure if you have an alternative in mind. I hope we can at least agree that the current setup is losing time compared to almost anything.

You can make the current swim route faster with a boat while still getting the maximum possible dives per minute. Doing the full upgrade swimming in there has exactly the same effects as first passing the distance diving from the boat in let's say 2 minutes (I tried it but didn't time it exactly, I think it was only 4 or 5 dives), then hanging around next to the BFI the next 5 minutes trodding water between dives. For trodding water, there's nothing to make that a better spot than other places with access to water, but the clock is ticking and not only for the dives, but the recharging as well.

The reason that diving during the boat ride to Cesar saves time is not that the diving takes you forward (although that too if you can leave the boat at a good speed), but that the time recharging oxygen is spent moving fast. Some of it is spent climbing to/from the boat, and driving the boat in short bursts is slower than all in one go, but still most of the recharging comes free on top of the boat ride you would take anyway.

My suggestion: Do the 2 minutes of swimming on the current route with the boat and let's guess 3 minutes on the way to Cesar. When 'following' the train, let's say just 1 minute more. Then you might still need another minute. You could do it after Snail Trail and still be seriously faster than the current way. It's even better to add it to some previous bit of swimming, just not the timed one in Snail Trail. You could do the missing dives where you currently swim if you like. Even better would be other places near the water where you can save time by not being in the water for the oxygen recharge, even though some of the saved time immediately goes to pay for the detour to the water. Either way, you'd just have to know how many dives you are guaranteed to get later and how many in total are required. To make it easy, you could just do a run where you do the missing diving by landing near water after Snail Trail. Counting how many dives you needed there, you could do the same amount (or one more for safety) earlier in the next run.

Fiddling with the frame limiter for each swimming section is a problem though. If you turn it on at the start of Photo Opportunity, maybe you could live with bleeding eyes for that mission, as the next swim is right after. In Snail Trail, every second diving (and recharging) is a second off the total time, so of course you do it with the fiddling if you can't do it without. Maybe limiting the FPS to 60 somehow would make it possible to swim? I have no idea what the problem with the frame rate is. ETA: I think it was that the oxygen bar shrinks proportionally faster? If it also recharges faster, it's still a problem but I guess only where the recharge time is not spent in the water.

I haven't tried diving during the boat ride to Cesar because I don't have saves from the beginning of the game right now and don't feel like playing LS. Getting from the water to the boat and vice versa could be slow enough (taking away from the time driving the boat for each dive) and the distance long enough that you don't need any extra diving, maybe even not all that way. I think you'll want to max out the current swimming route and Snail Trail in that case, only diving here as much as necessary.

[quote]I spin the heli around while climbing (or I should at least). This wastes no time, even if I was facing the right way I would still have to gain height until I could go forward.[/quote]
It looked like you could have gone forward earlier, maybe not by much.

[quote]I doubt its faster than the bike, as the bike is quite fast. The heli is only faster because it can fly over terrain/water, but the airport is a straight line too and from missiles and heli.[/quote]
Sure. But you go from A to B to C with the bike, then fly over B with the heli. Going directly from A to C with the bike is a much shorter distance, but I wouldn't know if the time lost in landing + taking off the heli near B is more than what's saved. I can test this myself at some point.

[quote]Your probably correct, I was wondering what the best time to take off was during the first section of flight school was. I just figured that taking off as soon as possible would be best because it would make my accent angle to the first red circle as shallow as possible, thus letting me keep as much speed during it, and would also allow me to pull my landing gear up as soon as possible, because the game slows you down when you have it out no matter of what actual air resistance should be (I THINK).[/quote]
Definitely take off from the ground and pull the landing gear ASAP, but stay next to the ground after that. The optimal time for starting the ascent obviously depends on the position of the target corona and how useful speed is after that. I have the feeling though that even to maximize speed at the corona (ignoring the time to get there), you don't want to fly to it in a straight line. This is especially true if you can reach the max speed of the aircraft flying horizontally and then maintain it while ascending. Haven't seen the physics code for the game though (it must be awesome ;) ) so experimentation and playing by ear is required.

Jumping from planes at speed may take a little bit of practice but I don't find it risky at all. Doing it consistently without losing health at all is no problem. It's probably better to keep the landing gear in to reduce the chances of bouncing from the ground if you hit it.