Full speedrun of Pokemon Heartgold/Soulsilver (to beat Red!)

2010-01-20 03:13:31 am

I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.

I never played a pokemon game before... *checks save* October of 2009. I have to blame my girlfriend; she insisted I try it out, and now... well...

I'm hooked. I have to blame Pokemon for derailing (temporarily!) my Shadowrun SNES speedrun, but at least I can say that I've been using the Japanese Heartgold to practice my rusty japanese. In fact, I just beat Red in that game, and it got me to thinking...

How WOULD a speedrunner go about approaching him?

The basic speedrun of the game through the first Elite Four would hardly present a challenge; choose Totodile, use the standard technique for water starters (Surf and AWAY! Until you get Waterfall, then it's bash bash bash). None of the Johto gyms are super effective against water, and none of the Elite Four have a type advantage either - the most troubling one MIGHT be the dragon gym, except Feraligatr learns Ice Fang (and your poor, hapless rival's Grass starter is taken with Ice Fang rather easily).

On top of that, the E4 has the LOWEST levels of any Pokemon game, from 41 at the lowest to the highest level being a level fifty Dragonite in the possession of the Champion. Threat? Not with Ice Fang.

However....

A run all the way through all 16 gyms of both Johto and Kanto, along with facing off with the highest-level pokemon in the possession of any in-game trainer, possesses interesting intellectual challenges.

For those not in the know, Red, the character from the first game, is the final big trainer in HG/SS. Red's pokemon are all over level 80, with his highest being a Pikachu at 88 (with that Light Ball thingie so it's not exactly the pushover an unevolved Pokemans should be). He has Charizard, Blastoise, and Venusaur, along with a Snorlax and a Lapras.

In other words, he's not exactly a boss that Feraligatr can take solo, with two pokemon capable of ripping Ferrie a new one, and four that sneer at all of Feraligatr's available attacks.

That leaves me with one option that I can think of for taking Red reliably without having to level up another pokemon hardcore: Mewtwo. Nabbing all 16 badges (which you need in order for Red to appear) opens up Cerulean Cave, and the level 70 Mewtwo inside is just the thing to give ol' Red a spanking.

However, this presents other problems: it would entail catching two legendaries with a Catch rate of 3, and I get only one Master Ball. Of course I'd save the Master for Mewtwo, but catching Ho-oh/Lugia is apt to be a serious pain in the testicles without its help. Probably Lugia, since climbing Tin Tower is a PITA, he's faster to get to, and I was planning to buy the American Soul Silver anyway, to match my Heart Gold. (and I doubt anyone would want to watch a run through the JP game. Moonspeak is not most gamer's forte.)

On the other hand, Mewtwo has only a pathetic Psycho Cut attack, no way of boosting its Attack, and can probably be weakened more easily into catch range than Lugia could.

Ferrie can still rip through all Kanto gyms with a Crunch/Waterfall/Ice Fang/Earthquake set, so no big deal getting THAT done. But still...

Are there any angles that I might be missing?

Wow, and am I starting this topic early or what? Still two months til the american release, give or take. But still, I wanted to lay down some musings as I return to this forum in anticipation of FINALLY finishing my rejected speedrun.

Thread title:

I never played a pokemon game before... *checks save* October of 2009. I have to blame my girlfriend; she insisted I try it out, and now... well...

I'm hooked. I have to blame Pokemon for derailing (temporarily!) my Shadowrun SNES speedrun, but at least I can say that I've been using the Japanese Heartgold to practice my rusty japanese. In fact, I just beat Red in that game, and it got me to thinking...

How WOULD a speedrunner go about approaching him?

The basic speedrun of the game through the first Elite Four would hardly present a challenge; choose Totodile, use the standard technique for water starters (Surf and AWAY! Until you get Waterfall, then it's bash bash bash). None of the Johto gyms are super effective against water, and none of the Elite Four have a type advantage either - the most troubling one MIGHT be the dragon gym, except Feraligatr learns Ice Fang (and your poor, hapless rival's Grass starter is taken with Ice Fang rather easily).

On top of that, the E4 has the LOWEST levels of any Pokemon game, from 41 at the lowest to the highest level being a level [i]fifty[/i] Dragonite in the possession of the Champion. Threat? Not with Ice Fang.

However....

A run all the way through all 16 gyms of both Johto and Kanto, along with facing off with the highest-level pokemon in the possession of any in-game trainer, possesses interesting intellectual challenges.

For those not in the know, Red, the character from the first game, is the final big trainer in HG/SS. Red's pokemon are all over level 80, with his highest being a Pikachu at 88 (with that Light Ball thingie so it's not exactly the pushover an unevolved Pokemans should be). He has Charizard, Blastoise, and Venusaur, along with a Snorlax and a Lapras.

In other words, he's not exactly a boss that Feraligatr can take solo, with two pokemon capable of ripping Ferrie a new one, and four that sneer at all of Feraligatr's available attacks.

That leaves me with one option that I can think of for taking Red reliably without having to level up another pokemon hardcore: Mewtwo. Nabbing all 16 badges (which you need in order for Red to appear) opens up Cerulean Cave, and the level 70 Mewtwo inside is just the thing to give ol' Red a spanking.

However, this presents other problems: it would entail catching two legendaries with a Catch rate of 3, and I get only one Master Ball. Of course I'd save the Master for Mewtwo, but catching Ho-oh/Lugia is apt to be a serious pain in the testicles without its help. Probably Lugia, since climbing Tin Tower is a PITA, he's faster to get to, and I was planning to buy the American Soul Silver anyway, to match my Heart Gold. (and I doubt anyone would want to watch a run through the JP game. Moonspeak is not most gamer's forte.)

On the other hand, Mewtwo has only a pathetic Psycho Cut attack, no way of boosting its Attack, and can probably be weakened more easily into catch range than Lugia could.

Ferrie can still rip through all Kanto gyms with a Crunch/Waterfall/Ice Fang/Earthquake set, so no big deal getting THAT done. But still...

Are there any angles that I might be missing?

Wow, and am I starting this topic early or what? Still two months til the american release, give or take. But still, I wanted to lay down some musings as I return to this forum in anticipation of FINALLY finishing my rejected speedrun.

DoubleThink

2010-01-20 06:23:54 am

There's a word for that

I had an idea of how to go about beating New Red.

iamfanboy

2010-01-20 01:40:41 pm

I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.

...Typhlosion, eh?

As it happens, I dropped my Typhlosion into the box when I captured Ho-Oh. He's only level 36. I could level him up and try him out against Red - since that other guy's Feraligatr was 66 by the time he reached Red, that's probably what I'd shoot for.

I'd probably go Sunny Day/Focus Blast/Solar Beam/Flamethrower, and use a couple X Accuracy's to ensure Focus Blast's hit on Snorlax. Setting up on Pikachu will be more than a bit dangerous, though...

agumike

2010-01-20 02:56:05 pm

You could always go for the ingame trade for a Machop in Goldenrod City. I've always done that. Helps against Whitney and whatsherface in the E4. And Low Kick is devistating on Snorlax. Course the only problem wiht that is that you can only have it as a Machoke. :/ The real plus though is that it levels up really fast.

And the E4 is pretty depressing only first time through. Though for a level 40 run of beating them, I'm glad they had Feraligatr learn Ice Fang. Though Claire was by far the most annoying Gym Leader.

iamfanboy

2010-01-20 03:42:46 pm

I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.

Heh. Machop, eh? plus he comes with a macho brace...

Hey, what about this as a thought: Replacing your starter with the legendary you have to catch, Lugia or Ho-Oh? In this case, Ho-Oh would probably be the better choice, with a stronger offense and good typing.

Oh, wait. Both flying. Red leads with Pikachu. ZZzzzap. A properly-natured Lugia might be able to outspeed it, or even survive a thunderbolt from it, but I have my doubts as to that.

I'm just not feeling that Typhlosion will cut it, considering the disadvantages he faces early on for a less-than-sure result against Red.

agumike

2010-01-20 04:15:37 pm

I see the biggest problem for a Typhlosion is definitely Claire and her Kingdra, as always.

But as for the Pikachu, you can always go for the other ingame trade of an Onix to use or just get a Geodude. It will also help against Falkner with his ROOSTING PIDGEOTTO.

iamfanboy

2010-01-20 06:16:02 pm

I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.

Ok, maybe I just suck at low-level pokemans battling, but a Typhlosion under 75ish doesn't have a electric rat's chance of taking even Red's Pikachu - with that Light Ball it deals 70-80% of Typhlosion's HP in one hit, and unless you have a Hasty or Naive (+speed -defense or special defense) you won't be able to outspeed it until around level 80-ish.

Of course, it might help kill Pikachu in one hit with Earthquake if my own Typhlosion weren't Modest, but as it is I only deal about 70% of his life with a level 70 Typhlosion.

I mean, yeah, I only tried and failed for about an hour's worth of battling, but Pikachu only missed once with Thundershock and after that Red used a Full Restore before I could capitalize on the Pikachu's weakness.

Another option is that your mother sends you a Choice Scarf after receiving a certain amount of money from your battling wins; if I'd kept track of that amount then we might be able to use THAT to help out but I dunno.

agumike

2010-01-20 07:33:13 pm

Well, I beat his Charizard and Pikachu at aroud level 53 ish....so I know it is possible with weakness exploitation from my Golem. And that Choice Scarf is what makes Claire and Lance actually possible at level 40, course this is without legendaries. It is possible with a Feraligatr. And a Quick Claw'd Explosion from my 41 Golem took out Lance's second Dragonite easily.

But I actually haven't gotten around to beating Red yet, since my Pokemon are all still mid 50s after beating all 16 Gym Leaders, using teh same 6-7 Pokemon throughout the entire game.

I ended up dying against his Lapras though, because of the fact i couldn't do enough damage to its huge hp. All in all, this was also not done in speedrun fashion, just low level fashion

iamfanboy

2010-01-20 07:54:53 pm

I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.

Query: How did you get a Golem, seeing as how that's a trade-only evolution?

The 'best' bet for a Ground pokemon would probably be the Onyx you get in... Violet City? Whichever one has the sprout tower. Even so, that's a step more complicated, and another pokemon to level up for ONE fight, so I'm just not too sure it's a viable option.

Let's see if the neutral-natured Mewtwo I got a couple of days ago fares any better....

iamfanboy

2010-01-20 09:09:12 pm

I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.

Well.

Mewtwo tore through Red like tissue paper.

Actually, not true. I went with Earthquake/Thunderbolt/Psychic/Focus Blast, giving him one Rare Candy to hit level 71 and make Psychic available.

First attempt was with Leftovers to try and set up on Pikachu. Failure, his Volt Tackle actually dealt 80% damage. However, a 71 Mewtwo without a speed-boosting nature is faster than his Pikachu and can OHKO him with Earthquake. Also, I found out that Mewtwo can't OHKO his Snorlax with Focus Blast without a boost.

So I went with a slight... change of plans, giving my Mewtwo a Choice Specs and deciding to forgo the X items in favor of just switching out for cannon fodder. After all, three of his six pokemon have Electric weaknesses, so Choice Specs isn't THAT bad.

After that, it was smooth sailing. The only speedbump was Lapras; the Thunderbolt did only about 80% damage and it gave Red an opportunity to use a Full Recover.

So, yeah. A segmented run might be able to get away with something else, but for a single-segment Mewtwo is probably the easiest choice.

Another thought might be to pick up a Graveler in the cave off of Route 45 and use Explosion to take out his Pikachu - IF you can catch one.

Well.

Mewtwo tore through Red like tissue paper.

Actually, not true. I went with Earthquake/Thunderbolt/Psychic/Focus Blast, giving him one Rare Candy to hit level 71 and make Psychic available.

First attempt was with Leftovers to try and set up on Pikachu. Failure, his Volt Tackle actually dealt 80% damage. However, a 71 Mewtwo without a speed-boosting nature is faster than his Pikachu and can OHKO him with Earthquake. Also, I found out that Mewtwo can't OHKO his Snorlax with Focus Blast without a boost.

So I went with a slight... change of plans, giving my Mewtwo a Choice Specs and deciding to forgo the X items in favor of just switching out for cannon fodder. After all, three of his six pokemon have Electric weaknesses, so Choice Specs isn't THAT bad.

After that, it was smooth sailing. The only speedbump was Lapras; the Thunderbolt did only about 80% damage and it gave Red an opportunity to use a Full Recover.

So, yeah. A segmented run might be able to get away with something else, but for a single-segment Mewtwo is probably the easiest choice.

Another thought might be to pick up a Graveler in the cave off of Route 45 and use Explosion to take out his Pikachu - IF you can catch one.

WingedKitsune

2010-01-20 09:20:41 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

So, what choices do you actually have for Starters in the two games?

Or does one version start you in Johto, and the other in Kanto?

iamfanboy

2010-01-20 09:35:13 pm

I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.

Quote from Kitsune:

So, what choices do you actually have for Starters in the two games?

Or does one version start you in Johto, and the other in Kanto?

It's a remake of Gold/Silver/Crystal. You start in Johto, with Totodile/Cynquadil/the stupid grass one no one chooses, uh, Chikorita. The only real version differences are the legendaries available: in HG you have to capture Ho-Oh before moving on to the E4, in SS it's Lugia. In HG you can get Kyogre and Latias, in SS it's Groudon and Latios.

Overall, there isn't much difference between GSC and HG/SS until you beat the E4 the first time; then it opens up a LOT of stuff to do.

The main change gameplay-wise, if I read bulbapedia right, is that there are no berry trees like in GSC; they're all banguri trees now, that you can make the special pokeballs out of. Also, more than a few TMs are available only as Battle Frontier prizes - like Brick Break, dammit. The only way to get most Evolutionary Stones is to do a minigame like the Contests in Platinum, the Pokethlon. Or to go into bug-catching contests and win, but that's random.

Also, if you choose to, you can have your mother take some of the prize money you win in battles, and she'll send you gifts every now and again that you pick up at the local Pokemart. By the endgame it's all berries, but during the beginning and middle she sends you some fairly useful stuff. Like a Choice Scarf.

[quote="Kitsune"]
So, what choices do you actually have for Starters in the two games?

Or does one version start you in Johto, and the other in Kanto?
[/quote]

It's a remake of Gold/Silver/Crystal. You start in Johto, with Totodile/Cynquadil/the stupid grass one no one chooses, uh, Chikorita. The only real version differences are the legendaries available: in HG you have to capture Ho-Oh before moving on to the E4, in SS it's Lugia. In HG you can get Kyogre and Latias, in SS it's Groudon and Latios.

Overall, there isn't much difference between GSC and HG/SS until you beat the E4 the first time; then it opens up a LOT of stuff to do.

The main change gameplay-wise, if I read bulbapedia right, is that there are no berry trees like in GSC; they're all banguri trees now, that you can make the special pokeballs out of. Also, more than a few TMs are available only as Battle Frontier prizes - like Brick Break, dammit. The only way to get most Evolutionary Stones is to do a minigame like the Contests in Platinum, the Pokethlon. Or to go into bug-catching contests and win, but that's random.

Also, if you choose to, you can have your mother take some of the prize money you win in battles, and she'll send you gifts every now and again that you pick up at the local Pokemart. By the endgame it's all berries, but during the beginning and middle she sends you some fairly useful stuff. Like a Choice Scarf.

WingedKitsune

2010-01-20 09:57:04 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from iamfanboy:

Quote from Kitsune:

So, what choices do you actually have for Starters in the two games?

Or does one version start you in Johto, and the other in Kanto?

It's a remake of Gold/Silver/Crystal. You start in Johto, with Totodile/Cynquadil/the stupid grass one no one chooses, uh, Chikorita. The only real version differences are the legendaries available: in HG you have to capture Ho-Oh before moving on to the E4, in SS it's Lugia. In HG you can get Kyogre and Latias, in SS it's Groudon and Latios.

Overall, there isn't much difference between GSC and HG/SS until you beat the E4 the first time; then it opens up a LOT of stuff to do.

The main change gameplay-wise, if I read bulbapedia right, is that there are no berry trees like in GSC; they're all banguri trees now, that you can make the special pokeballs out of. Also, more than a few TMs are available only as Battle Frontier prizes - like Brick Break, dammit. The only way to get most Evolutionary Stones is to do a minigame like the Contests in Platinum, the Pokethlon. Or to go into bug-catching contests and win, but that's random.

Also, if you choose to, you can have your mother take some of the prize money you win in battles, and she'll send you gifts every now and again that you pick up at the local Pokemart. By the endgame it's all berries, but during the beginning and middle she sends you some fairly useful stuff. Like a Choice Scarf.

Ah, okay. And that sucks about the TMs like Brick Break, because it's a damn good attack.

[quote="iamfanboy"]
[quote="Kitsune"]
So, what choices do you actually have for Starters in the two games?

Or does one version start you in Johto, and the other in Kanto?
[/quote]

It's a remake of Gold/Silver/Crystal. You start in Johto, with Totodile/Cynquadil/the stupid grass one no one chooses, uh, Chikorita. The only real version differences are the legendaries available: in HG you have to capture Ho-Oh before moving on to the E4, in SS it's Lugia. In HG you can get Kyogre and Latias, in SS it's Groudon and Latios.

Overall, there isn't much difference between GSC and HG/SS until you beat the E4 the first time; then it opens up a LOT of stuff to do.

The main change gameplay-wise, if I read bulbapedia right, is that there are no berry trees like in GSC; they're all banguri trees now, that you can make the special pokeballs out of. Also, more than a few TMs are available only as Battle Frontier prizes - like Brick Break, dammit. The only way to get most Evolutionary Stones is to do a minigame like the Contests in Platinum, the Pokethlon. Or to go into bug-catching contests and win, but that's random.

Also, if you choose to, you can have your mother take some of the prize money you win in battles, and she'll send you gifts every now and again that you pick up at the local Pokemart. By the endgame it's all berries, but during the beginning and middle she sends you some fairly useful stuff. Like a Choice Scarf. 
[/quote]

Ah, okay.  And that sucks about the TMs like Brick Break, because it's a damn good attack.

agumike

2010-01-20 10:44:45 pm

I traded with my other game to get the Graveler to evolve, of course! Not region locked!

And Onix would probably prove useful against other trainers, but yeah, Mewtwo is a VERY solid solution to your problem.

Beenman500

2010-01-21 10:59:45 am

Joke of all trades

can you just catch a mid-40's level onyx in victory road and just use that, pikachu is a pushover when fighting ground rock i beleive, then when he sends out the counter(blastoise/lapras/ venasaur), just switch in feraligator and buff up, especially agains the low attack lapras. venasaur would be a problem though, also if there's a way to effectivly coax out lapras/ blastoise to set up on use that...

iamfanboy

2010-01-21 04:43:56 pm

I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.

Well, you can catch a 40-something Donphan in the area leading up to Red's mountain; that'd probably be a better choice seeing as how Donphan learns Earthquake at 46 and might be able to take down Pikachu in one hit with STAB and the weakness. Plus, Donphan has a high Attack.

Hum, something else to test...

DoubleThink

2010-01-21 08:24:32 pm

There's a word for that

Pikachu has Iron Tail, which will hurt Rock-types with a Light Ball, although it can be made to miss fairly easily. Donphan might have a decent shot, but it probably won't 1-hit at such a low levels, and if Red switches it won't do jack to anything else.

Quote from iamfanboy:

Ok, maybe I just suck at low-level pokemans battling, but a Typhlosion under 75ish doesn't have a electric rat's chance of taking even Red's Pikachu - with that Light Ball it deals 70-80% of Typhlosion's HP in one hit, and unless you have a Hasty or Naive (+speed -defense or special defense) you won't be able to outspeed it until around level 80-ish.

I directly mentioned using an X Speed first turn while Pikachu attacks and puts it into Blaze range. Although that is a bit more damage than I was expecting... Typhlosion might struggle to survive against the others without extra levels. His base level at that stage will depend on how much extra exp is available; I know a few of the trainers have higher-level teams now, but more might also be avoidable. I'm finishing G/S at Lv64, with one Rare Candy, which is a big gap below Lv70, both offence- and defence-wise.

Quote from iamfanboy:

Of course, it might help kill Pikachu in one hit with Earthquake if my own Typhlosion weren't Modest, but as it is I only deal about 70% of his life with a level 70 Typhlosion.

I suggested Blaze Lava Plume; it would be stronger than Earthquake in your case, but still not strong enough to KO... Blaze Fire Blast should do it though, even at a couple of levels lower.

Quote from iamfanboy:

I mean, yeah, I only tried and failed for about an hour's worth of battling, but Pikachu only missed once with Thundershock and after that Red used a Full Restore before I could capitalize on the Pikachu's weakness.

Missed? With Thundershock?

This is all for a segmented run, mind. Typhlosion isn't nearly reliable enough to take down Red in a SS, but in a segmented run getting a legendary will cost a lot of time.

Quote from iamfanboy:

Another option is that your mother sends you a Choice Scarf after receiving a certain amount of money from your battling wins; if I'd kept track of that amount then we might be able to use THAT to help out but I dunno.

Sending cash to your mother not only dents your funds when you need them but wastes a huge amount of time on end-of-battle messages. That's a no-go, sadly.

Pikachu has Iron Tail, which [i]will[/i] hurt Rock-types with a Light Ball, although it can be made to miss fairly easily. Donphan might have a decent shot, but it probably won't 1-hit at such a low levels, and if Red switches it won't do jack to anything else.

[quote="iamfanboy"]
Ok, maybe I just suck at low-level pokemans battling, but a Typhlosion under 75ish doesn't have a electric rat's chance of taking even Red's Pikachu - with that Light Ball it deals 70-80% of Typhlosion's HP in one hit, and unless you have a Hasty or Naive (+speed -defense or special defense) you won't be able to outspeed it until around level 80-ish.[/quote]I directly mentioned using an X Speed first turn while Pikachu attacks and puts it into Blaze range. Although that is a bit more damage than I was expecting... Typhlosion might struggle to survive against the others without extra levels. His base level at that stage will depend on how much extra exp is available; I know a few of the trainers have higher-level teams now, but more might also be avoidable. I'm finishing G/S at Lv64, [i]with[/i] one Rare Candy, which is a big gap below Lv70, both offence- and defence-wise.

[quote="iamfanboy"]
Of course, it might help kill Pikachu in one hit with Earthquake if my own Typhlosion weren't Modest, but as it is I only deal about 70% of his life with a level 70 Typhlosion.[/quote]I suggested Blaze Lava Plume; it would be stronger than Earthquake in your case, but still not strong enough to KO... Blaze Fire Blast should do it though, even at a couple of levels lower.

[quote="iamfanboy"]
I mean, yeah, I only tried and failed for about an hour's worth of battling, but Pikachu only missed once with Thundershock and after that Red used a Full Restore before I could capitalize on the Pikachu's weakness.[/quote]Missed? With Thunder[i]shock[/i]?

This is all for a segmented run, mind. Typhlosion isn't nearly reliable enough to take down Red in a SS, but in a segmented run getting a legendary will cost a lot of time.

[quote="iamfanboy"]
Another option is that your mother sends you a Choice Scarf after receiving a certain amount of money from your battling wins; if I'd kept track of that amount then we might be able to use THAT to help out but I dunno.[/quote]Sending cash to your mother not only dents your funds when you need them but wastes a huge amount of time on end-of-battle messages. That's a no-go, sadly.

iamfanboy

2010-01-21 09:15:23 pm

I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.

Not with Thundershock, sorry; Thunderbolt. (It's called 100,000 Volts in Japanese and I couldn't remember quite what the English was).

But yeah, the main peril up there is actually the residual damage from the Hail if you take a hit from Pikachu. The only place to get Leftovers is off the Snorlax that's blocking the path to Route 11/Diglett Cave, which is... not an easy proposition to catch in a speedrun. I guess one could grab a Thief TM and swipe it, then kill the Snorlax, but...

agumike

Edit history:

agumike: 2010-01-22 01:54:03 am

2010-01-22 01:40:55 am

You can always steal then run? You don't have to kill it.

Denkishock is Thundershock, iirc. And it is only 10,000 Bolts, not 100,000 xD

I can test out how an EQ from a Choice Scarfed Feraligatr works on the Pikachu, just to see if it is even a possible option, but I definitely still see it being outrun by a Pikachu 30 levels higher than it.....

EDIT: That didn't work indeed.....next option is a Quick Clawed EQ

iamfanboy

2010-01-22 04:52:50 am

I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.

Isn't 'man' (if this forum will display kana, まん) a counter for 10,000, so 10まん Volts would be 100,000?

I mean, I'm a bit rough on anything over hyaku anyway, so I'll admit I could be wrong. I only use japanese to play games and read doujinshi, not shop for clothes!

yoshmaster5

2010-01-22 02:02:22 pm

Also tenkiforecast

Yeah, 'man' is used for 10,000. The counting system goes up to there, and after that, uses niman for 20,000, etc... so as Thunderbolt's japanese name, 'Juuman bolto' it literally does mean 100,000 bolt/volt. Juu means 10, soo... yeah.

agumike

2010-01-22 03:46:43 pm

LOL you are right. I misread it again.
Volts though, from my experience is ヴォルト, but the ヴ "vu" might not have existed back then, because i know it is a later developed character.

Anyways, if you are gonna be at around 70, I would assume that a Scarfed Feraligatr would still be fast enough and definitely strong enough to EQ the Pikachu

UltimateDarius

2010-04-03 04:58:39 pm

Back in the game!

I have traded a few of my games for this one today. Prepare to get spammed by information and strats like I tend to do...

Skate

2010-04-03 05:17:02 pm

I actually tried a practice run through Johto earlier this week on Soul Silver. I beat the Elite 4 with a time of 4:23. After testing it out, there are some things I have discovered.

Heart Gold would be better to speedrun:
- It has Sandshrew to use as a Cut/Strength slave, which is missing in SS
- You save quite some time for encountering Ho-oh, since it's in the exact same place as the Kimono Girl fights

I used Totodile as my starter and reset until it was Adamant nature. Along the way, I followed Mike's Crystal run and ended up catching Geodude and Rattata (instead of Sandshrew Sad

), Spearow and Poliwag. Half the Gym Leaders were really troublesome, especially Whitney! (which is why you should go for a Female Adamant Totodile, but that would take forever...)

So that's all I have to add to this run. Good luck! Cheesy

Greenalink

2010-04-03 05:56:35 pm

DS Dictator

I was mocking a speed run of this game on Heart Gold. Yes HG has a Sandshrew and he is a useful HM Slave for knowing Strength, Cut and Rock Climb.

The quote below is from a word document I made a week ago.

Quote:

Totodile:
Level 5 Naughty (+ Atk, -SpD)
Female
21
13
12
10
10
9

Union Cave contains TM 39 Rock Tomb (+ Useful for gym 2 and speed loss abuse on faster Pkmn, Miltank)
Bellsprout Tower is required now & it's a good place to level up for T.Dile to learn Bite before Falkner.

Keep T.Dile to level 20 to learn Ice Fang before evolving to Croconaw.

Perform tweaking exploit to skip Slowpoke Well.
218+248+291+383 = 1140 loss on Experience points.
Skips 4 Battles vs Team Rocket

Gym 2

1 Double battle is required to face both Ledyba and Spinarak both at level 10.

Bugsy has a level 17 Scyther that has a speed of at least 37 or more... maybe a Quilava could out run it.

After Sudowoodo you have to face 2 Beauty Trainers at once in a double battle.
2 Clefable & 2 Wigglytuff

It was possible to encounter Raikou without major manipulation by exiting and re-entering the route.

There is a tweaking exploit near by Maghogany town which can skip Red Gyarados -> Goldenrod Radio Tower for Early Ice Path.

There is also a tweaking exploit at New Bark Town to skip Tojoh Falls waterfall, which could skip Gyms 5-8 if..... the guard by the Elite 4 Entrance ignores fully checking the current number of badges. Otherwise you could go there first (ASAP) to unlock a Fly warp spot and fly back to that place right after getting the 8th Gym Badge, skipping the K.Girls and the Mascot Legendary.

Kanto half:

Erika’s Victreebel is a offensive threat for having STAB Leaf Storm very deadly when it hits –SpD Feraligatr.

Rocket Chase

Lass Laura and Shannon (Double battle):
Paras, Paras & Parasect
Gloom, Bellossom & Pidgeotto

Last Kanto Gym:
Possible double battle trainers.
Azumarill and Porygon 2 (Download)

Sp Def up against Blue’s Exeggutor Leaf Storm. It can OHKO a –Sp Def F.gatr despite a near 20+ level difference.

Blue can be very hard if things do not go to plan.

Red:

Quick Claw can be used (found near by Bug Catching contest) & Earthquake TM (Victory Road) to OHKO Lv 88 Pikachu.

Then send out a Female SP Def+ Snorlax and use Captivitate (TM bought from Celadon Store) on Venusaur. This should drop the Special Attack by a good amount for F.gatr to endure STAB Giga Drain. Just watch out for Frenzy Plant, luckily that move can miss.

Remember that the battle takes place permanent Hail so Blizzard is 100% accurate. Something F.gatr can use to take advantage to counter V.Saur.

Blastoise mainly uses his inaccurate Focus Blast followed by Hydro Cannon.
C.Zard has a deadly Air Slash, watch out for that. A +1 Speed with Torrent Surf shoud OHKO.
If F.gatr used a lot of X attacks when facing Blastoise, he can set up to 2HKO both Snorlax and Lapras with EQ. I would use a few Sp. Def first to avoid getting 2HKO by Focus Blast from Blastoise.

Pikachu has more than 180 speed (faster than C.zard due to level difference).
Charizard is definitely has less than 180 speed.
Venusaur + Blastoise have less than 153 speed but more than 140 speed
163 Speed can’t out run C.zard

I was mocking a speed run of this game on Heart Gold. Yes HG has a Sandshrew and he is a useful HM Slave for knowing Strength, Cut and Rock Climb.

The quote below is from a word document I made a week ago.

[quote]Totodile:
Level  5 Naughty (+ Atk, -SpD) 
Female
21
13
12
10
10
9

Union Cave contains TM 39 Rock Tomb (+ Useful for gym 2 and speed loss abuse on faster Pkmn, Miltank)
Bellsprout Tower is required now & it's a good place to level up for T.Dile to learn Bite before Falkner.

Keep T.Dile to level 20 to learn Ice Fang before evolving to Croconaw.

Perform tweaking exploit to skip Slowpoke Well.
 218+248+291+383 = 1140 loss on Experience points.
Skips 4 Battles vs Team Rocket

Gym 2

1 Double battle is required to face both Ledyba and Spinarak both at level 10.

Bugsy has a level 17 Scyther that has a speed of at least 37 or more... maybe a Quilava could out run it.

After Sudowoodo you have to face 2 Beauty Trainers at once in a double battle.
2 Clefable & 2 Wigglytuff

It was possible to encounter Raikou without major manipulation by exiting and re-entering the route.

There is a tweaking exploit near by Maghogany town which can skip Red Gyarados -> Goldenrod Radio Tower for Early Ice Path.

There is also a tweaking exploit at New Bark Town to skip Tojoh Falls waterfall, which could skip Gyms 5-8 if..... the guard by the Elite 4 Entrance ignores fully checking the current number of badges. Otherwise you could go there first (ASAP) to unlock a Fly warp spot and fly back to that place right after getting the 8th Gym Badge, skipping the K.Girls and the Mascot Legendary.

Kanto half:

Erika’s Victreebel  is a offensive threat for having STAB Leaf Storm very deadly when it hits –SpD Feraligatr.

Rocket Chase

Lass Laura and Shannon (Double battle): 
Paras, Paras & Parasect
 Gloom, Bellossom & Pidgeotto

Last Kanto Gym:
Possible double battle trainers.
Azumarill and Porygon 2 (Download)

Sp Def up against Blue’s Exeggutor Leaf Storm. It can OHKO a –Sp Def F.gatr despite a near 20+ level difference.

Blue can be very hard if things do not go to plan.

Red:

Quick Claw can be used (found near by Bug Catching contest) & Earthquake TM (Victory Road) to OHKO Lv 88 Pikachu.

Then send out a Female SP Def+ Snorlax and use Captivitate (TM bought from Celadon Store) on Venusaur. This should drop the Special Attack by a good amount for F.gatr to endure STAB Giga Drain. Just watch out for Frenzy Plant, luckily that move can miss.

Remember that the battle takes place permanent Hail so Blizzard is 100% accurate. Something F.gatr can use to take advantage to counter V.Saur.

Blastoise mainly uses his inaccurate Focus Blast followed by Hydro Cannon. 
C.Zard has a deadly Air Slash, watch out for that. A +1 Speed with Torrent Surf shoud OHKO.
If F.gatr used a lot of X attacks when facing Blastoise, he can set up to 2HKO both Snorlax and Lapras with EQ. I would use a few Sp. Def first to avoid getting 2HKO by Focus Blast from Blastoise.

Pikachu has more than 180 speed (faster than C.zard due to level difference).
Charizard is definitely has less than 180 speed.
Venusaur + Blastoise have less than 153 speed but more than 140 speed
163 Speed can’t out run C.zard[/quote]