Front Mission: Gun Hazard (SNES)

Omnigamer

Edit history:

Omnigamer: 2012-12-16 11:31:13 pm

Omnigamer: 2012-12-16 07:50:09 pm

2012-12-16 07:48:18 pm

All the things

I'm mostly making this so I can keep track of some of the resources I've found.

Anyway, Front Mission Gun Hazard. A sidecroller action-rpg by Square. Has some good music, fun game, etc. I will probably try to work on it in the future.

There are two times for it on the NicoNico RTA Wiki. These seem like reasonable enough times, although I'm pretty sure they can be improved.

Resources for this game are still pretty scarce; the one FAQ on GameFAQs has a lot of useful information, however some of it is missing. For example, it misses an entire (optional) character, and I'm pretty certain it does not cover some other secrets or easter eggs. Most of this should be pretty irrelevant, unless it allows access to either Napalm or Spark Shot earlier. In particular I believe that there are more Spark Shots scattered around than are listed in the guide, but they may require some optional tasks to get.

I tried looking for some Japanese guides to the game, but I haven't been able to find any yet. I did find the text block below, however:

◇ After clearing the Emingen Kill Colonel arc comes with a dog and uncle, a sortie into town Emingen.
Then, while in the moving phase,
Now comes with a mysterious uncle after the hero and the black dog.

◇ speed up while moving on the field map, move and hold down the X or A.
Then, the moving speed of the base carrier ー faster than usual.
In this case, press and hold the A than those who use the X increases the speed.

Promoting the game until Shibirusuka ◇ How to Kagemitsu fellow, to fellow Sakata.
Friends to the Sakata, go to the mountains Maryokin of Vorkuta.
Meet the mechanical and so little to go right along the bottom of the cave passage, I come into contact with this mechanism.
Then, the event occurs, Kagemitsu automatically becomes a friend.
Kagemitsu, but do not have the ability to attack and not be corrupted if attacked by the enemy.
In addition, you will be able to walk with his friends in the same way as the other fellow,
At this time, the surrounding terrain is always displayed in the upper right corner of the screen.

◇ promote the game to destroy the air base sentinel hidden shops,
Friends to the Anita, I'm going to Madiosu of Machu Picchu.
That the man from the back of the base, listening to the information hidden shop.
When you return to the world map, you can go to the hidden shops in Sydney.

◇ Wanzer that can be attached to more than one special weapon that increasing the number of bullets,
Equipped with a special non-hard-knuckle weapon or armor plate.
At the top, equipped with a large number of special weapon ammo.
I withdrew from using only a single special weapon to sortie in a suitable place, equipped for the first time.
The state got off to remove the body of the Wanzer in the hangar, and then immediately withdraw sortie.
Then, the number of bullets of a special weapon equipped with the first, is the same as another special weapon.
Moreover, the number of bullets is incremented each time you refill. However, I will get more than 999 to 0.

◇ The Sakata to increase the degree of proficiency as friends, go to the mountain Maryokin of Vorkuta, to fellow Kagemitsu.
Sorties to the appropriate location by the Kagemitsu Friends.
From fighting until the enemy does not appear, down the Bantsu~a.
To attack with a hand grenade Kagemitsu.
You will then be raising the proficiency of the hand grenade.
Is zero in HP originally, Kagemitsu can not be destroyed even if the attack much.

This was Google-translated from this page. I can make out most of it, but some of it is a bit cryptic. Also probably irrelevant for a speedrun, with the exception of the ammo overwrite. I've tried several things, but haven't been able to replicate it yet. Still not entirely sure what he means by some things, but translating it bit-by-bit gives a slightly different meaning to some of the lines.

I'd appreciate it if anybody else could find any resources related to the game, regardless of language. There's also a pilot-only TAS that's on NicoNico, but again it's irrelevant for a regular speedrun. Also, this page.

More info to come when I settle into actually routing the game.

Thread title:

I'm mostly making this so I can keep track of some of the resources I've found.

Anyway, Front Mission Gun Hazard. A sidecroller action-rpg by Square. Has some good music, fun game, etc. I will probably try to work on it in the future.

There are two times for it on the [url=http://www40.atwiki.jp/niconamarta/pages/157.html]NicoNico RTA Wiki[/url]. These seem like reasonable enough times, although I'm pretty sure they can be improved.

Resources for this game are still pretty scarce; the one FAQ on GameFAQs has a lot of useful information, however some of it is missing. For example, it misses an entire (optional) character, and I'm pretty certain it does not cover some other secrets or easter eggs. Most of this should be pretty irrelevant, unless it allows access to either Napalm or Spark Shot earlier. In particular I believe that there are more Spark Shots scattered around than are listed in the guide, but they may require some optional tasks to get.

I tried looking for some Japanese guides to the game, but I haven't been able to find any yet. I did find the text block below, however:

◇ After clearing the Emingen Kill Colonel arc comes with a dog and uncle, a sortie into town Emingen.
 Then, while in the moving phase,
 Now comes with a mysterious uncle after the hero and the black dog.

◇ speed up while moving on the field map, move and hold down the X or A.
 Then, the moving speed of the base carrier ー faster than usual.
 In this case, press and hold the A than those who use the X increases the speed.

Promoting the game until Shibirusuka ◇ How to Kagemitsu fellow, to fellow Sakata.
 Friends to the Sakata, go to the mountains Maryokin of Vorkuta.
 Meet the mechanical and so little to go right along the bottom of the cave passage, I come into contact with this mechanism.
 Then, the event occurs, Kagemitsu automatically becomes a friend.
 Kagemitsu, but do not have the ability to attack and not be corrupted if attacked by the enemy.
 In addition, you will be able to walk with his friends in the same way as the other fellow,
 At this time, the surrounding terrain is always displayed in the upper right corner of the screen.

◇ promote the game to destroy the air base sentinel hidden shops,
 Friends to the Anita, I'm going to Madiosu of Machu Picchu.
 That the man from the back of the base, listening to the information hidden shop.
 When you return to the world map, you can go to the hidden shops in Sydney.

◇ Wanzer that can be attached to more than one special weapon that increasing the number of bullets,
 Equipped with a special non-hard-knuckle weapon or armor plate.
 At the top, equipped with a large number of special weapon ammo.
 I withdrew from using only a single special weapon to sortie in a suitable place, equipped for the first time.
 The state got off to remove the body of the Wanzer in the hangar, and then immediately withdraw sortie.
 Then, the number of bullets of a special weapon equipped with the first, is the same as another special weapon.
 Moreover, the number of bullets is incremented each time you refill.  However, I will get more than 999 to 0.

◇ The Sakata to increase the degree of proficiency as friends, go to the mountain Maryokin of Vorkuta, to fellow Kagemitsu.
 Sorties to the appropriate location by the Kagemitsu Friends.
 From fighting until the enemy does not appear, down the Bantsu~a.
 To attack with a hand grenade Kagemitsu.
 You will then be raising the proficiency of the hand grenade.
 Is zero in HP originally, Kagemitsu can not be destroyed even if the attack much.

This was Google-translated from [url=http://urawaza.in/sfc/gunhazard.htm]this page[/url]. I can make out most of it, but some of it is a bit cryptic. Also probably irrelevant for a speedrun, with the exception of the ammo overwrite. I've tried several things, but haven't been able to replicate it yet. Still not entirely sure what he means by some things, but translating it bit-by-bit gives a slightly different meaning to some of the lines.

I'd appreciate it if anybody else could find any resources related to the game, regardless of language. There's also a pilot-only TAS that's on NicoNico, but again it's irrelevant for a regular speedrun. Also, [url=http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&ei=3X3OUOjUGqex0AG20oGYDA&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E3%2582%25AC%25E3%2583%25B3%25E3%2583%258F%25E3%2582%25B6%25E3%2583%25BC%25E3%2583%2589%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbo%3Dd%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D1115&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&twu=1&u=http://wikiwiki.jp/snes007/%3F%25A5%25D5%25A5%25ED%25A5%25F3%25A5%25C8%25A5%25DF%25A5%25C3%25A5%25B7%25A5%25E7%25A5%25F3%25A5%25B7%25A5%25EA%25A1%25BC%25A5%25BA%2520%25A5%25AC%25A5%25F3%25A5%25CF%25A5%25B6%25A1%25BC%25A5%25C9&usg=ALkJrhj7ol_879VQEhkCj4zv4_RjlWpmtw]this page[/url].

More info to come when I settle into actually routing the game.

Omnigamer

Edit history:

Omnigamer: 2012-12-18 11:45:48 am

Omnigamer: 2012-12-17 06:17:53 pm

Omnigamer: 2012-12-17 06:09:41 pm

Omnigamer: 2012-12-17 06:06:02 pm

Omnigamer: 2012-12-17 05:25:43 pm

Omnigamer: 2012-12-17 05:19:21 pm

Omnigamer: 2012-12-17 05:06:23 pm

Omnigamer: 2012-12-17 11:39:26 am

2012-12-17 11:32:30 am

All the things

As far as the 5th bullet in that list, it's really something I'd like to investigate. It sounds like he was able to overwrite the attributes of a weapon with it, and that's something that could be particularly useful if it could be expanded to damage or reload time. Unfortunately it's still not clear how to perform it. I've tried a variety of things, but there may yet be some other factors that I'm missing.

From a careful dissection of the original text, I believe this is the process:
-Once you can have Wanzers with multiple special weapons, equip some special weapon with ammo (specifically: a high amount of ammo) to the first slot. It doesn't mention anything else about the other slots, but I'm assuming you'd equip some other weapons there.
-Sortie somewhere, change to another special weapon, then leave.
-Go into the hanger and de-equip the Wanzer body. Specifically, go down to just pilot form. This is the part that I'm most unsure of, but the character used literally means to dismount. There's a possibility that it also means to "dismount" in the sortie and then exit, but this doesn't actually change anything after unless the Wanzer is destroyed. If the Wanzer is destroyed, all equipment goes with it.
-Sortie and then immediately leave (literally: "retreat"). This should be enough to trigger the glitch (maybe after the Wanzer is re-equipped?).

The only thing it says is that the special weapon takes on the ammo amount of another special weapon, but doesn't specify which or how. I was not able to reproduce this, but it's possible that there are other factors at work. It could be related specific Wanzers or weapon types. This would be particularly broken if it somehow allowed you to overwrite damage values as well. For example, giving the AP of a Bazooka to the Spark Shot would just demolish most of the game.

I plan to play around with memory addresses a bit to see if I can observe some potential causes for this, but I'd appreciate if anybody else has any input as far as what to try.

EDIT: I figured it out! Step-by-step:

1. Equip something with a relatively high amount of ammo to slot 1.
2. Equip something with a lower amount of ammo to slot 2. This is the weapon that will receive the effect.
3. Launch; location doesn't matter. In the stage, switch to weapon 2. Leave the area.
4. Go into Outfit and de-equip the Wanzer. Go back and Launch again, then immediately leave.
5. Go back to Outfit and re-equip the Wanzer. When you check your ammo amounts, you should now have the ammo from Weapon 1 as Weapon 2's amount.

For whatever reason when you start a mission without a Wanzer, the value at 7E7555 (weapon 1 ammo) overwrites 7E7557 (weapon 2 ammo). I am playing with it a bit more to see if anything else can come from this. EDIT2: The key to this is switching the weapon. This is repeatable for special weapon 3 or 4 as well; the ammo will go to whichever one you end on.

EDIT3: Personal note: 7E7408: weapon experience. For Homing shot 3, it gains 0x78 experience for everything that it hits. It hits 100% at 0x8000 experience (273 hits). For 120%, you need almost double, and the cutoff is 0xD666 (457 hits). It's quite a difference, but gives quite a boost as well. The experience cutoffs are probably the same for every weapon, but I imagine they give different amounts of experience per hit. Just checked, Bazooka gives 0x98 per hit, and it has the same 100%/120% crossover points.

EDIT4: If you get blown back by a mine or other heavy attack while using vernier, it gets completely restored. You can do this for as long as there are mines and you have HP to spare.

As far as the 5th bullet in that list, it's really something I'd like to investigate. It sounds like he was able to overwrite the attributes of a weapon with it, and that's something that could be particularly useful if it could be expanded to damage or reload time. Unfortunately it's still not clear how to perform it. I've tried a variety of things, but there may yet be some other factors that I'm missing.

From a careful dissection of the original text, I believe this is the process:
-Once you can have Wanzers with multiple special weapons, equip some special weapon with ammo (specifically: a high amount of ammo) to the first slot. It doesn't mention anything else about the other slots, but I'm assuming you'd equip some other weapons there.
-Sortie somewhere, change to another special weapon, then leave.
-Go into the hanger and de-equip the Wanzer body. Specifically, go down to just pilot form. This is the part that I'm most unsure of, but the character used literally means to dismount. There's a possibility that it also means to "dismount" in the sortie and then exit, but this doesn't actually change anything after unless the Wanzer is destroyed. If the Wanzer is destroyed, all equipment goes with it.
-Sortie and then immediately leave (literally: "retreat"). This should be enough to trigger the glitch (maybe after the Wanzer is re-equipped?).

The only thing it says is that the special weapon takes on the ammo amount of another special weapon, but doesn't specify which or how. I was not able to reproduce this, but it's possible that there are other factors at work. It could be related specific Wanzers or weapon types. This would be particularly broken if it somehow allowed you to overwrite damage values as well. For example, giving the AP of a Bazooka to the Spark Shot would just demolish most of the game.

I plan to play around with memory addresses a bit to see if I can observe some potential causes for this, but I'd appreciate if anybody else has any input as far as what to try.

EDIT: I figured it out! Step-by-step:

1. Equip something with a relatively high amount of ammo to slot 1.
2. Equip something with a lower amount of ammo to slot 2. This is the weapon that will receive the effect.
3. Launch; location doesn't matter. In the stage, switch to weapon 2. Leave the area.
4. Go into Outfit and de-equip the Wanzer. Go back and Launch again, then immediately leave.
5. Go back to Outfit and re-equip the Wanzer. When you check your ammo amounts, you should now have the ammo from Weapon 1 as Weapon 2's amount.

For whatever reason when you start a mission without a Wanzer, the value at 7E7555 (weapon 1 ammo) overwrites 7E7557 (weapon 2 ammo). I am playing with it a bit more to see if anything else can come from this. EDIT2: The key to this is switching the weapon. This is repeatable for special weapon 3 or 4 as well; the ammo will go to whichever one you end on.

EDIT3: Personal note: 7E7408: weapon experience. For Homing shot 3, it gains 0x78 experience for everything that it hits. It hits 100% at 0x8000 experience (273 hits). For 120%, you need almost double, and the cutoff is 0xD666 (457 hits). It's quite a difference, but gives quite a boost as well. The experience cutoffs are probably the same for every weapon, but I imagine they give different amounts of experience per hit. Just checked, Bazooka gives 0x98 per hit, and it has the same 100%/120% crossover points.

EDIT4: If you get blown back by a mine or other heavy attack while using vernier, it gets completely restored. You can do this for as long as there are mines and you have HP to spare.

ColonelFatso

Edit history:

ColonelFatso: 2012-12-18 03:16:44 am

2012-12-18 03:10:15 am

That's a very interesting find, although the only really game-breaking use I can immediately see for it as matters stand is writing UVG or SPS ammo to Repair Fields (perhaps allowing lower levels for boss fights?) It could also help conserve those ever-so-rare BULLET items. If you can manipulate other variables in a similar way (like, as you said, writing Bazooka damage to Spark Shot), you could definitely make this game your bitch.

I'm interested in hearing your routing ideas, especially as concerns weapon choices for mid-game (It's difficult to imagine something faster than UVG for boss kills early-game, and by the end-game Spark Shot is definitely the best choice) and where to grind, if anywhere. I've done a number of quick plays through the game (nothing particularly dedicated as far as speedrunning goes just yet). I don't think you should dismiss off-hand the idea of going to Sydney, since it doesn't take much time to unlock (a couple minutes, including travel time over World Map, and then at most another minute to do the shop) and you can pick up a fuckton of Spark Shots with whatever remaining cash you've got (even on relatively low-level runs I always wind up with boatloads of surplus cash, so there shouldn't really be a problem there). Then again, I haven't taken the time to properly work out a route either, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

EDIT: The glitch sounds semi-permanent from your description. Is this true? If so, you could daisy-chain weapon 1's ammo capacity all the way down to weapon 4 with only a few instances of the glitch. It would also mean careful attention would have to be paid to routing in terms of weapon choices, since every weapon you replace would potentially require an extra few minutes to set up the glitch again.

That's a very interesting find, although the only really game-breaking use I can immediately see for it as matters stand is writing UVG or SPS ammo to Repair Fields (perhaps allowing lower levels for boss fights?) It could also help conserve those ever-so-rare BULLET items. If you can manipulate other variables in a similar way (like, as you said, writing Bazooka damage to Spark Shot), you could definitely make this game your bitch.

I'm interested in hearing your routing ideas, especially as concerns weapon choices for mid-game (It's difficult to imagine something faster than UVG for boss kills early-game, and by the end-game Spark Shot is definitely the best choice) and where to grind, if anywhere. I've done a number of quick plays through the game (nothing particularly dedicated as far as speedrunning goes just yet). I don't think you should dismiss off-hand the idea of going to Sydney, since it doesn't take much time to unlock (a couple minutes, including travel time over World Map, and then at most another minute to do the shop) and you can pick up a fuckton of Spark Shots with whatever remaining cash you've got (even on relatively low-level runs I always wind up with boatloads of surplus cash, so there shouldn't really be a problem there). Then again, I haven't taken the time to properly work out a route either, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

EDIT: The glitch sounds semi-permanent from your description. Is this true? If so, you could daisy-chain weapon 1's ammo capacity all the way down to weapon 4 with only a few instances of the glitch. It would also mean careful attention would have to be paid to routing in terms of weapon choices, since every weapon you replace would potentially require an extra few minutes to set up the glitch again.

Omnigamer

Edit history:

Omnigamer: 2012-12-18 12:08:40 pm

2012-12-18 09:46:18 am

All the things

I've been experimenting with it in a casual playthrough and I can say that the glitch is very useful for any reasonable weapon. The main thing is that you can also dump an entire supply's worth of ammo on top of it after you glitch, effectively giving yourself an inexhaustible amount of ammo in a normal mission. This is especially useful for weapons with high damage and rate of fire but a limited ammo pool (Bazooka comes to mind, and Homing Shot gets an honorable mention). There are some other considerations, but for the most part this works best since you can train them up very quickly if you can spam them endlessly. The combination of that and shotgun absolutely shreds everything, and allows me to put very little grinding time into the weapons in order to max them out.

The main routing choice is going to come down to experience planning. This is much more difficult in the earlier part of the game than in the later portion because:
1. You need to get to level 7 as soon as possible to allow the special weapons glitch.
2. You have a relatively limited amount of attack options available, as well as limited movement options.
3. You're more on-par with enemies in the earlier part until weapons are trained. You can be significantly underleveled in the later half of the game and it won't matter as much since the game tosses gobs of experience at you and your attack power is still overwhelming to standard enemies.

In the early part of the game it's easy to grind on Mount Erskaia for a couple levels as soon as you are capable of taking out the Blue Heli before the autoscroller ends. This alone gives a nice chunk of cash and 1200 exp, and may be the best time per exp point in the early game. A couple iterations of this is enough to grant access to HMS-20 or BZK-20, which will be useful for well into the next 3-4 operations and allow you to skip a bunch of battles. The critical part is that ability to take it down, however; it may not be possible with the weapon levels available up to that point.

The glitch is not really permanent. It goes away as soon as you de-equip the weapon. You can activate it again as many times as you want, but the main thing is that you can continue loading past the capacity by simply opting to resupply (it will dump all of your current purchased ammo into it).

Spark Shots are indeed great late-game and trivial to power up, but it's still that issue of going out of the way to purchase it. I'd really have to time it all out and see if it saves more time than it costs. Unless there's some SPS-40 or 50 in a crate prior to Atlas (possible, but not listed in FAQ or anywhere else that I've looked), I think it may not be helpful in the long run. I've only found SPS-10 and 20, but they're placed such that their usefulness is limited in terms of the enemies that you'll be fighting. For this reason it will probably be better to stick to the same or a very limited selection of special weapons all the way through the game.

I've been experimenting with it in a casual playthrough and I can say that the glitch is very useful for any reasonable weapon. The main thing is that you can also dump an entire supply's worth of ammo on top of it after you glitch, effectively giving yourself an inexhaustible amount of ammo in a normal mission. This is especially useful for weapons with high damage and rate of fire but a limited ammo pool (Bazooka comes to mind, and Homing Shot gets an honorable mention). There are some other considerations, but for the most part this works best since you can train them up very quickly if you can spam them endlessly. The combination of that and shotgun absolutely shreds everything, and allows me to put very little grinding time into the weapons in order to max them out.

The main routing choice is going to come down to experience planning. This is much more difficult in the earlier part of the game than in the later portion because:
1. You need to get to level 7 as soon as possible to allow the special weapons glitch.
2. You have a relatively limited amount of attack options available, as well as limited movement options.
3. You're more on-par with enemies in the earlier part until weapons are trained. You can be significantly underleveled in the later half of the game and it won't matter as much since the game tosses gobs of experience at you and your attack power is still overwhelming to standard enemies.

In the early part of the game it's easy to grind on Mount Erskaia for a couple levels as soon as you are capable of taking out the Blue Heli before the autoscroller ends. This alone gives a nice chunk of cash and 1200 exp, and may be the best time per exp point in the early game. A couple iterations of this is enough to grant access to HMS-20 or BZK-20, which will be useful for well into the next 3-4 operations and allow you to skip a bunch of battles. The critical part is that ability to take it down, however; it may not be possible with the weapon levels available up to that point.

The glitch is not really permanent. It goes away as soon as you de-equip the weapon. You can activate it again as many times as you want, but the main thing is that you can continue loading past the capacity by simply opting to resupply (it will dump all of your current purchased ammo into it).

Spark Shots are indeed great late-game and trivial to power up, but it's still that issue of going out of the way to purchase it. I'd really have to time it all out and see if it saves more time than it costs. Unless there's some SPS-40 or 50 in a crate prior to Atlas (possible, but not listed in FAQ or anywhere else that I've looked), I think it may not be helpful in the long run. I've only found SPS-10 and 20, but they're placed such that their usefulness is limited in terms of the enemies that you'll be fighting. For this reason it will probably be better to stick to the same or a very limited selection of special weapons all the way through the game.

ColonelFatso

Edit history:

ColonelFatso: 2012-12-18 07:18:54 pm

2012-12-18 07:18:38 pm

Quote:

but the main thing is that you can continue loading past the capacity by simply opting to resupply (it will dump all of your current purchased ammo into it).

ALL of your ammo? This glitch is amazing, forget anything else I said about it.

Omnigamer

2012-12-19 11:26:46 am

All the things

I finished the playthrough last night, and here are some observations:

-Being the right level at the right time will be critical. I finished the game at level 35, meaning I didn't have access to Shotgun 5 or Wanzer 5 throughout most of Atlas. The game also dishes out a ton of damage in the last few levels, but the good news is that a lot of it is skippable by just rushing through, and having repairs on-hand is most likely the best way to deal with any damage incurred.
-I need to spend some time to make tables for the following: exp per shot for each weapon that might matter, baseline experience and money from each mission, damage conversion for mismatched weapon/armor levels, miniboss and boss HPs (and maybe some regular enemies too).
-Mapping out required supply/grinding points will be critical. I'm pretty certain a stable SS route can be made without too much grinding, but the main thing is being able to access weapons when they will be most valuable for both damage and levelling. There are a lot of choices in this regard.
-Figuring out if/when it may be better to back out of an operation to continue in another operation for the above purposes. Examples might include continuing another campaign to level up before boss fights or get access to equipment earlier. World map movement takes a while, but I believe if it makes the difference for consistency and faster boss battles, it may work out for the best.
-Routing some individual stages is going to be a pain, since a lot of them look the same. That will just be something to practice a bunch before serious attempts get underway.
-Money should not be a problem through most of the game, but some particularly expensive portions of the game can clean me out pretty quickly if I don't go out of my way to kill a few extra units. I'll have to find that good compromise between killing too many/too few units in story-related missions.
-There are a few vernier tricks that may or may not come into use. In particular it's possible to get some additional altitude by getting stuck under a ledge while still ascending. As soon as you're released, you will shoot up higher than normally possible. Limited application, but may help in some spots.

I finished the playthrough last night, and here are some observations:

-Being the right level at the right time will be critical. I finished the game at level 35, meaning I didn't have access to Shotgun 5 or Wanzer 5 throughout most of Atlas. The game also dishes out a ton of damage in the last few levels, but the good news is that a lot of it is skippable by just rushing through, and having repairs on-hand is most likely the best way to deal with any damage incurred.
-I need to spend some time to make tables for the following: exp per shot for each weapon that might matter, baseline experience and money from each mission, damage conversion for mismatched weapon/armor levels, miniboss and boss HPs (and maybe some regular enemies too).
-Mapping out required supply/grinding points will be critical. I'm pretty certain a stable SS route can be made without too much grinding, but the main thing is being able to access weapons when they will be most valuable for both damage and levelling. There are a lot of choices in this regard.
-Figuring out if/when it may be better to back out of an operation to continue in another operation for the above purposes. Examples might include continuing another campaign to level up before boss fights or get access to equipment earlier. World map movement takes a while, but I believe if it makes the difference for consistency and faster boss battles, it may work out for the best.
-Routing some individual stages is going to be a pain, since a lot of them look the same. That will just be something to practice a bunch before serious attempts get underway.
-Money should not be a problem through most of the game, but some particularly expensive portions of the game can clean me out pretty quickly if I don't go out of my way to kill a few extra units. I'll have to find that good compromise between killing too many/too few units in story-related missions.
-There are a few vernier tricks that may or may not come into use. In particular it's possible to get some additional altitude by getting stuck under a ledge while still ascending. As soon as you're released, you will shoot up higher than normally possible. Limited application, but may help in some spots.

ColonelFatso

2014-04-14 08:25:53 pm

Resurrecting this thread to share a few things:

1. My cart copy of the game arrived a couple weeks ago and I've been going at it pretty seriously since then.

2. I've got an SS route made out that, while probably not 100% optimal at every point, is certainly a good start. General notes:

- Text speed matters - a lot of the game's timing seems to depend on when the last line of text was completed. Control type B is the only viable control type - it's absolutely essential to have dash on a button. I slightly prefer Arm Speed 1 over the default 3 because control type B locks your wanzer's stance when the Y button is held, so I need to be able to bring the weapons to bear quickly.

- No need to go too far out of your way to kill anything in Ops 1 or 2. The quickest way to kill standard enemies in the early game is HNP -> jump to cancel -> main gun.

- The run never enters any mission twice unless a) doing the ammo glitch or b) mandated by the story. This was a big goal of mine when developing the route, since overworld travel takes so damn long.

- The route uses Shotguns up until Via Blanca, then switches to the NG-04 you get with the final carrier upgrade. This seems to work, as aiming becomes less of a priority in the late game. I buy upgrades for the SG-02 and SG-03, but not the SG-01.

- The run ends at level 33. The final shop is done at level 32. This means no Wanzer 5 and no SG-05. Repair kits are your friend.

- The workhorse secondaries throughout the run are UVG, BZS and GRL. I tried some alternatives but found them all worthless except for SPS (late game) and HNP (for Via Blanca only - you can skip two of the EVAs with HNP-40). Once I get the Knight Master I also start packing EAP for a little extra health.

- The route uses the ammo duplication glitch exactly six times for six weapons: BZS-10 in Borukta, GRL-20 in Al Hari, GRL-30 in Zambola, BZS-30 in Sibirska, GRL-40 and BZS-40 in Esporte. Doing the glitch takes about 40-45 seconds each time, but makes subsequent missions WAY faster (as I'm sure you know).

- If you select a weapon with more than 100% ammo and get an ammo pickup (or use a BULLET item - I did this accidentally in my test run during the mini-Ark fight at Sentinel Command and had to restart the level), it will drop down to the normal 100% and you'll be screwed.

- It goes without saying that I only use a partner if I absolutely have to - Luven in the launch tunnel, Sakata against Shivaltz, and Anita to unlock Sydney.

- The route requires two BULLET items. The two I could find that were least out of the way were in Borukta (either the transport heli mission - but I skip that because there's a lot of pressure from the helicopters - or the optional mission after Shadak) and Esporte (directly above the final jammer in the jammer base).

- VU checkpoints: 10 for the Cenktrich bases, 20 for the Al Hari cliff climb, 30 for the first Sibirska icelands mission, 50 for Sentinel Wing. VU-40 is never strictly required.

- RD300 is the most amazingly broken item ever and it's a shame you can't get it before Machu Picchu. If you jump quickly enough after dashing, you keep all the momentum from that initial speed burst and there's never any reason to waste your money on the RD400.

- Unlocking Sydney costs about 90 seconds compared to doing your endgame shopping at Esporte instead (assuming you only go once either way). On the other hand, the SPS-50 destroys everything with such efficiency that you only need to shop once for repair kits (I'd like to see you try that with a BZS build!), and it also lets you bypass the fourth form of the Atlas core. All told, even if it loses a few seconds, it makes Atlas so much more reliable that I would hesitate to remove it - doubly so because we never get Wanzer 5.

Level-specific notes:

- You can beat Mount Erskaia immediately after you unlock it if you have a UVG-10 with some experience (if it's up to 84-85 ammo, that should be good enough). You only need to beat it once to get Wanzer 2 at the Borukta shop.

- Tchernenko: I'm still not 100% certain how I want to kill this boss. The current strategy is to use BZS-10 against the first form, then after the split, quick-kill the bottom half with UVG, use the rest against the top half if it's above you, and finish off with BZS otherwise.

- YOU MUST EQUIP GRENADES BEFORE GALEON. I kept forgetting and if you do, it costs like 25 seconds. The boss on the Galeon deck has two parts. If you try to rush the boss before the bottom part is destroyed, the top part will murder you, so I hang back instead and spam bazooka at it until the bottom part dies, then switch to UVG-20 to quick-kill the top half.

- Switch from BZS-10 to GRL-20 on your way up Al Hari at the first shopping stop. The route used to get BZS-20 instead, but GRL-20 is not much slower and saves a lot of money (plus you can kill all the traps in the autoscroller really easily for extra XP).

- Try to level up high enough to get the SG-02 for cheap on your way back down Al Hari after defeating the base commander. It's a small optimization but helps a bit in the long run (especially since you're using the SG-02 all the way through Sibirska and the extra experience could help). The missile wanzers on Dahana Highlands are great XP fodder, as are the spider droids in Galeon.

- Rook can be the easiest or the deadliest Crimson Blow fight, depending on how quick you are to shield once he starts shooting. This is basically the only time I ever use the shield in the run (other times: Camilla, Launch Tunnel boss, Genoce fight in the Via Blanca computer room).

- Beeg: I like to fight right where you were ambushed in Op 1. It's a nice open area (but not too open) and you can easily force-spawn replacement enemies by scrolling the screen a bit.

- Bergen HQ: First Ark, grenades. Second Ark, first form: UVG-20. Second form: UVG if high, GRL if low or out of ammo.

- Tangany Military Base: grab the HAV-03 and Clark's Wanzer 3 (if you're in an optimization mood, you could probably get away with HAV-03 in Via Blanca as long as you have enough first-aid kits - my test run bought a HAV-05 instead). The Wanzer is obviously to sell (you get a handy $15000 for it and it's right on the way to the N-SCOPE).

- You should have enough cash for Wanzer 3 and GRL-30 immediately after the Tangany base (sell off your GRL-20, you won't need it anymore). You can't do the ammo glitch until you get to Janga Village though (since the Road to Janga is an autoscroller). UVG-30 finishes off the purple heli quickly enough that you can spend the rest of the mission doing preliminary levelling on your GRL-30.

- Bishop is a joke with grenades.

- Balming: GRL-30 is useful here because explosives are effective through shields and he likes to hide behind his. If he gets directly above you, UVG-30 is a slightly quicker kill, though.

- Oil Rig: the direct route to the boss saves 5 hostages. I go slightly out of my way to save a sixth, but I suspect that isn't necessary. UVG absolutely murders the turret arms.

- Sibirska ice fields (what is the name of this mission anyway? I forget): I take the time to make a few kills here, because a) they're relatively quick and b) I've got some costly shopping coming up.

- Convoy: Losing a truck kind of sucks (700XP and a fair bit of cash) but isn't devastating. Don't use explosives here no matter what - they'll get the trucks in no time flat.

- Sewer escape: There's a level 3 wanzer for Luven here, which makes the Launch Tunnel much less hairy. GRL-30 makes getting XP and money here really easy.

- Launch Tunnel: Use BZS-30 to clear out the enemies and try to keep them away from Luven (even the explosions can get him pretty badly at his low level). Don't be afraid to blow a REP on him. For the boss, I usually just sit behind my shield and hold down the bazooka button.

- Try to put off shopping for ammo until you return to Al Hari (milking that discount!)

- Shivaltz: Rush with UVG, but leave plenty of time to get back behind Sakata.

- Grant, both forms: UVG. Unfortunately he's too big to get from the front with GRL.

- At the shop, usually I grab the Knight Master, RD300 and EAP-30. The plate is probably optional but good for survival through early-mid Esporte.

- The optional mission after Madios is worth $100k if you kill a moderate number of enemies on the way to the bosses. The bosses can be killed quickly with BZS (earth) and BZS/UVG combo (air).

- Bishop and Rook: get Rook first to stop Bishop from using his laggy death attack too much. BZS will damage Bishop no matter where you hit (he's armoured against most other weapons).

- On my way out of Machu Picchu I get GRL-40 and do ammo dupe at the village.

- Esporte: not much to say as far as routing goes, other than when you should shop.

- First shop: as soon as possible. Go the direct route. Get BZS-40 and EAP-40, and do ammo dupe (the final one!) at the mission you did second.

- That maze-like base at the top left: The big purple wanzers are weak and worth tons of XP. I take a slightly slow route to kill more of them.

- Second shop: immediately before the battleship fight. Get HNP-40, max pilot gear (except maybe HAV, if you're feeling ballsy).

- Battleship: UVG-40 usually dispatches it in almost exactly a full magazine.

- Via Blanca: The first and second EVAs can be skipped by punching through the walls from the wrong side. I'm unsure whether or not this is intentional. The third and fourth EVAs are still hard as balls, though, so bring lots of first-aid kits. As before, I chose to dally a bit and kill a couple extra purple wanzers.

- Defense Fleet: get the laser pointers, they're worth 2560 XP each and only take one bazooka. Other targets usually go down to one bazooka or one additional napalm shot.

- Sentinel Wing: bazooka for the engines in the ground, UVG for the ones on the ceiling. In my test run I forgot to re-equip the UVG-40 here, but everything worked out okay. Remember you need a VU-50.

- Balming-type: grenades again. Likes to be frustratingly evasive.

- Ark-type: UVG-40. Use one BULLET item here.

- Praetorian 1: grenades or BZS, either one doesn't matter much.

- Praetorian 2: Bazooka-spam. Also unload whatever UVG you've got left if you're close enough.

- Praetorian 3: Bring it home with the bazooka and grenades. You'll never need either again.

- Watch the nine-minute fake ending.

- Go to Madios with Anita, unequip your UVG, BZS and GRL. Then go to Sydney, sell everything off, and buy two SPS-50s plus max out REP-3, 4, and 5.

- From this point on, never let go of the A button. You want as much XP on the SPS-50 as you can possibly get, to speed up the Atlas kill at the end.

- You'll need the final BULLET item for the Atlas core fight.

- I ended timing when you get shoved into the escape pod. I'm not sure how other people do it.

3. My first full-game test run beat both niconico RTA times you posted earlier (although I don't know their timing rules so I can't make a direct comparison). There are something like 8-10 minutes lost just from stupid deaths/forgetting to equip something alone, and tons of room for other optimizations along the way.

I don't know if you ever continued developing your own routes, but if so, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Resurrecting this thread to share a few things:

1. My cart copy of the game arrived a couple weeks ago and I've been going at it pretty seriously since then.

2. I've got an SS route made out that, while probably not 100% optimal at every point, is certainly a good start. General notes:

- Text speed matters - a lot of the game's timing seems to depend on when the last line of text was completed. Control type B is the only viable control type - it's absolutely essential to have dash on a button. I slightly prefer Arm Speed 1 over the default 3 because control type B locks your wanzer's stance when the Y button is held, so I need to be able to bring the weapons to bear quickly.

- No need to go too far out of your way to kill anything in Ops 1 or 2. The quickest way to kill standard enemies in the early game is HNP -> jump to cancel -> main gun.

- The run never enters any mission twice unless a) doing the ammo glitch or b) mandated by the story. This was a big goal of mine when developing the route, since overworld travel takes so damn long.

- The route uses Shotguns up until Via Blanca, then switches to the NG-04 you get with the final carrier upgrade. This seems to work, as aiming becomes less of a priority in the late game. I buy upgrades for the SG-02 and SG-03, but not the SG-01.

- The run ends at level 33. The final shop is done at level 32. This means no Wanzer 5 and no SG-05. Repair kits are your friend.

- The workhorse secondaries throughout the run are UVG, BZS and GRL. I tried some alternatives but found them all worthless except for SPS (late game) and HNP (for Via Blanca only - you can skip two of the EVAs with HNP-40).  Once I get the Knight Master I also start packing EAP for a little extra health.

- The route uses the ammo duplication glitch exactly six times for six weapons: BZS-10 in Borukta, GRL-20 in Al Hari, GRL-30 in Zambola, BZS-30 in Sibirska, GRL-40 and BZS-40 in Esporte. Doing the glitch takes about 40-45 seconds each time, but makes subsequent missions WAY faster (as I'm sure you know).

- If you select a weapon with more than 100% ammo and get an ammo pickup (or use a BULLET item - I did this accidentally in my test run during the mini-Ark fight at Sentinel Command and had to restart the level), it will drop down to the normal 100% and you'll be screwed.

- It goes without saying that I only use a partner if I absolutely have to - Luven in the launch tunnel, Sakata against Shivaltz, and Anita to unlock Sydney.

- The route requires two BULLET items. The two I could find that were least out of the way were in Borukta (either the transport heli mission - but I skip that because there's a lot of pressure from the helicopters - or the optional mission after Shadak) and Esporte (directly above the final jammer in the jammer base).

- VU checkpoints: 10 for the Cenktrich bases, 20 for the Al Hari cliff climb, 30 for the first Sibirska icelands mission, 50 for Sentinel Wing. VU-40 is never strictly required.

- RD300 is the most amazingly broken item ever and it's a shame you can't get it before Machu Picchu. If you jump quickly enough after dashing, you keep all the momentum from that initial speed burst and there's never any reason to waste your money on the RD400.

- Unlocking Sydney costs about 90 seconds compared to doing your endgame shopping at Esporte instead (assuming you only go once either way). On the other hand, the SPS-50 destroys everything with such efficiency that you only need to shop once for repair kits (I'd like to see you try that with a BZS build!), and it also lets you bypass the fourth form of the Atlas core. All told, even if it loses a few seconds, it makes Atlas so much more reliable that I would hesitate to remove it - doubly so because we never get Wanzer 5.

Level-specific notes:

- You can beat Mount Erskaia immediately after you unlock it if you have a UVG-10 with some experience (if it's up to 84-85 ammo, that should be good enough). You only need to beat it once to get Wanzer 2 at the Borukta shop.

- Tchernenko: I'm still not 100% certain how I want to kill this boss. The current strategy is to use BZS-10 against the first form, then after the split, quick-kill the bottom half with UVG, use the rest against the top half if it's above you, and finish off with BZS otherwise.

- YOU MUST EQUIP GRENADES BEFORE GALEON. I kept forgetting and if you do, it costs like 25 seconds. The boss on the Galeon deck has two parts. If you try to rush the boss before the bottom part is destroyed, the top part will murder you, so I hang back instead and spam bazooka at it until the bottom part dies, then switch to UVG-20 to quick-kill the top half.

- Switch from BZS-10 to GRL-20 on your way up Al Hari at the first shopping stop. The route used to get BZS-20 instead, but GRL-20 is not much slower and saves a lot of money (plus you can kill all the traps in the autoscroller really easily for extra XP).

- Try to level up high enough to get the SG-02 for cheap on your way back down Al Hari after defeating the base commander. It's a small optimization but helps a bit in the long run (especially since you're using the SG-02 all the way through Sibirska and the extra experience could help). The missile wanzers on Dahana Highlands are great XP fodder, as are the spider droids in Galeon.

- Rook can be the easiest or the deadliest Crimson Blow fight, depending on how quick you are to shield once he starts shooting. This is basically the only time I ever use the shield in the run (other times: Camilla, Launch Tunnel boss, Genoce fight in the Via Blanca computer room).

- Beeg: I like to fight right where you were ambushed in Op 1. It's a nice open area (but not too open) and you can easily force-spawn replacement enemies by scrolling the screen a bit.

- Bergen HQ: First Ark, grenades. Second Ark, first form: UVG-20. Second form: UVG if high, GRL if low or out of ammo.

- Tangany Military Base: grab the HAV-03 and Clark's Wanzer 3 (if you're in an optimization mood, you could probably get away with HAV-03 in Via Blanca as long as you have enough first-aid kits - my test run bought a HAV-05 instead). The Wanzer is obviously to sell (you get a handy $15000 for it and it's right on the way to the N-SCOPE).

- You should have enough cash for Wanzer 3 and GRL-30 immediately after the Tangany base (sell off your GRL-20, you won't need it anymore). You can't do the ammo glitch until you get to Janga Village though (since the Road to Janga is an autoscroller). UVG-30 finishes off the purple heli quickly enough that you can spend the rest of the mission doing preliminary levelling on your GRL-30.

- Bishop is a joke with grenades.

- Balming: GRL-30 is useful here because explosives are effective through shields and he likes to hide behind his. If he gets directly above you, UVG-30 is a slightly quicker kill, though.

- Oil Rig: the direct route to the boss saves 5 hostages. I go slightly out of my way to save a sixth, but I suspect that isn't necessary. UVG absolutely murders the turret arms.

- Sibirska ice fields (what is the name of this mission anyway? I forget): I take the time to make a few kills here, because a) they're relatively quick and b) I've got some costly shopping coming up.

- Convoy: Losing a truck kind of sucks (700XP and a fair bit of cash) but isn't devastating. Don't use explosives here no matter what - they'll get the trucks in no time flat.

- Sewer escape: There's a level 3 wanzer for Luven here, which makes the Launch Tunnel much less hairy. GRL-30 makes getting XP and money here really easy.

- Launch Tunnel: Use BZS-30 to clear out the enemies and try to keep them away from Luven (even the explosions can get him pretty badly at his low level). Don't be afraid to blow a REP on him. For the boss, I usually just sit behind my shield and hold down the bazooka button.

- Try to put off shopping for ammo until you return to Al Hari (milking that discount!)

- Shivaltz: Rush with UVG, but leave plenty of time to get back behind Sakata.

- Grant, both forms: UVG. Unfortunately he's too big to get from the front with GRL.

- At the shop, usually I grab the Knight Master, RD300 and EAP-30. The plate is probably optional but good for survival through early-mid Esporte.

- The optional mission after Madios is worth $100k if you kill a moderate number of enemies on the way to the bosses. The bosses can be killed quickly with BZS (earth) and BZS/UVG combo (air).

- Bishop and Rook: get Rook first to stop Bishop from using his laggy death attack too much. BZS will damage Bishop no matter where you hit (he's armoured against most other weapons).

- On my way out of Machu Picchu I get GRL-40 and do ammo dupe at the village.

- Esporte: not much to say as far as routing goes, other than when you should shop.

- First shop: as soon as possible. Go the direct route. Get BZS-40 and EAP-40, and do ammo dupe (the final one!) at the mission you did second.

- That maze-like base at the top left: The big purple wanzers are weak and worth tons of XP. I take a slightly slow route to kill more of them.

- Second shop: immediately before the battleship fight. Get HNP-40, max pilot gear (except maybe HAV, if you're feeling ballsy).

- Battleship: UVG-40 usually dispatches it in almost exactly a full magazine.

- Via Blanca: The first and second EVAs can be skipped by punching through the walls from the wrong side. I'm unsure whether or not this is intentional. The third and fourth EVAs are still hard as balls, though, so bring lots of first-aid kits. As before, I chose to dally a bit and kill a couple extra purple wanzers.

- Defense Fleet: get the laser pointers, they're worth 2560 XP each and only take one bazooka. Other targets usually go down to one bazooka or one additional napalm shot.

- Sentinel Wing: bazooka for the engines in the ground, UVG for the ones on the ceiling. In my test run I forgot to re-equip the UVG-40 here, but everything worked out okay. Remember you need a VU-50.

- Balming-type: grenades again. Likes to be frustratingly evasive.

- Ark-type: UVG-40. Use one BULLET item here.

- Praetorian 1: grenades or BZS, either one doesn't matter much.

- Praetorian 2: Bazooka-spam. Also unload whatever UVG you've got left if you're close enough.

- Praetorian 3: Bring it home with the bazooka and grenades. You'll never need either again.

- Watch the nine-minute fake ending.

- Go to Madios with Anita, unequip your UVG, BZS and GRL. Then go to Sydney, sell everything off, and buy two SPS-50s plus max out REP-3, 4, and 5.

- From this point on, never let go of the A button. You want as much XP on the SPS-50 as you can possibly get, to speed up the Atlas kill at the end.

- You'll need the final BULLET item for the Atlas core fight.

- I ended timing when you get shoved into the escape pod. I'm not sure how other people do it.

3. My [url=http://www.twitch.tv/colonelfatso/c/4067794]first full-game test run[/url] beat both niconico RTA times you posted earlier (although I don't know their timing rules so I can't make a direct comparison). There are something like 8-10 minutes lost just from stupid deaths/forgetting to equip something alone, and tons of room for other optimizations along the way.

I don't know if you ever continued developing your own routes, but if so, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Omnigamer

2014-04-14 08:50:56 pm

All the things

Glad to hear that you're working on this! I haven't put too much thought into it since I've been caught up in other runs, but it sounds like you've got some pretty good ideas. agwawaf recently posted a video of his test TAS for this game, clocking in at around 2:15. It's on nicovideos (links in the thread on TASVideos.org) but I haven't watched the full run yet. Probably worth using as a reference, since it sounds like he wants to improve it.

ColonelFatso

Edit history:

ColonelFatso: 2014-04-15 12:42:51 am

ColonelFatso: 2014-04-14 09:16:49 pm

2014-04-14 09:16:14 pm

So I started watching the TAS and it turns out I'm a gigantic dumbass and never bothered to figure out how to scroll text fast (for future reference, it's L+R). I think just doing that will probably shorten the run by another 20 minutes or so.

EDIT: This being the text you can't skip with START, obviously.

EDIT 2: Finished the TAS. Lots of stuff to think about, primarily:

1. Can I figure out a way to walk through enemies like the TAS does in real time?

2. A very precise jump on the cliff climb allows you to skip VU-20 completely. I was able to reproduce this on console after about 20-30 seconds of trying, so I think doing it in real runs shouldn't be too hard. This also speeds the next two operations up because the VU-20 is garbage at climbing.

3. Apparently you CAN get in Galeon's face - you just have to know where to stop. I'm going to try to incorporate that into later runs.

4. The TASer's choice of weapon for the endgame is FBG-40. I saw him do some pretty crazy shit with it, so I'm looking at adopting it at some earlier time (probably Esporte or Machu Picchu). It's unlikely that I will drop SPS-50 for Sentinel and Atlas, since the required precision for using FBG against lots of tiny enemies like that is insane.

5. It's unlikely that I will be ballsy enough to try doing Al Hari before Borukta like the TAS does, but I'll at least give it a shot in testing.

So I started watching the TAS and it turns out I'm a gigantic dumbass and never bothered to figure out how to scroll text fast (for future reference, it's L+R). I think just doing that will probably shorten the run by another 20 minutes or so.

EDIT: This being the text you can't skip with START, obviously.

EDIT 2: Finished the TAS. Lots of stuff to think about, primarily:

1. Can I figure out a way to walk through enemies like the TAS does in real time?

2. A very precise jump on the cliff climb allows you to skip VU-20 completely. I was able to reproduce this on console after about 20-30 seconds of trying, so I think doing it in real runs shouldn't be too hard. This also speeds the next two operations up because the VU-20 is garbage at climbing.

3. Apparently you CAN get in Galeon's face - you just have to know where to stop. I'm going to try to incorporate that into later runs.

4. The TASer's choice of weapon for the endgame is FBG-40. I saw him do some pretty crazy shit with it, so I'm looking at adopting it at some earlier time (probably Esporte or Machu Picchu). It's unlikely that I will drop SPS-50 for Sentinel and Atlas, since the required precision for using FBG against lots of tiny enemies like that is insane.

5. It's unlikely that I will be ballsy enough to try doing Al Hari before Borukta like the TAS does, but I'll at least give it a shot in testing.

ColonelFatso

Edit history:

ColonelFatso: 2014-04-16 07:54:31 pm

ColonelFatso: 2014-04-16 06:04:28 pm

ColonelFatso: 2014-04-16 04:33:00 pm

2014-04-16 04:28:04 pm

Update: tried a run incorporating VU-20 skip, advancing text with L+R, and quicker Galeon kill, and if I hadn't fucked it up right at the end I'd have been comfortably sub-3:30.

Independently of that, I tried out the FBG-40 and it's AMAZING. The only difficulty is the required level (27, pretty high - in fact I think it's towards the beginning/middle of Esporte in the current route) and the fact that you can only get it at Al Hari or New York (the latter of which is closed off during the time I would want the weapon). I might try out the FBG-30 instead.

EDIT: Tried FBG-30. I get level 18 (required level to buy it) right after the Oil Rig. It costs about 90 seconds to go get the FBG-30 immediately (instead of waiting for the Sakata interlude), but I get to skip the Sibirska shop as well (gaining back about 30 seconds) so that's okay. It minces everything in Sibirska. I put a full load of ammo in it and it lasted until the first Grant battle in Machu Picchu (this means I need to buy ammo between ops in New York). I ended up with a whole bunch more kills than average (again because it destroys everything so quickly I don't have to stop to make kills). I estimate I saved at least 30 seconds above and beyond the cost of the shopping trip in Sibirska alone when weighing in the extra XP/cash/etc., but I haven't done any proper checking yet.

Flamethrowers + ammo glitch are proving to be so powerful that I might even try substituting FBG-20 for GRL-20 at Al Hari.

EDIT2: Semi-tested new route (gonna try a full-game run tomorrow afternoon):

do normally up to oil rig

run back to al hari and get fbg-30, full load of ammo

Now we can kill some extra things at no relative time cost (except the 70 seconds it takes to get it)

DON'T ACCIDENTALLY DUPE OVER THE FBG AGAIN (this is what happened before the Grant fight. There's no real way to actually run out of ammo, a full carrier-load is like 8000)

We'll need BZS-30 still for Bishop, but we can get it late (skip EAP-30 instead)

immediately at lvl27 run back to al hari and get fbg-40 (I know this seems like a huge waste of time, but with luck we can save those 70 seconds just on genoce alone - and the rest we save on sentinel).

then proceed as normal. never get bzs-40, grl-40. Probably no need to get uvg-40 either. This means (knock on wood) maybe full REPs even on a lower-yield run?

consider using fbg-40 against first form of atlas - slightly slower but I think it generates less enemy attacks.

Update: tried a run incorporating VU-20 skip, advancing text with L+R, and quicker Galeon kill, and if I hadn't fucked it up right at the end I'd have been comfortably sub-3:30.

Independently of that, I tried out the FBG-40 and it's AMAZING. The only difficulty is the required level (27, pretty high - in fact I think it's towards the beginning/middle of Esporte in the current route) and the fact that you can only get it at Al Hari or New York (the latter of which is closed off during the time I would want the weapon). I might try out the FBG-30 instead.

EDIT: Tried FBG-30. I get level 18 (required level to buy it) right after the Oil Rig. It costs about 90 seconds to go get the FBG-30 immediately (instead of waiting for the Sakata interlude), but I get to skip the Sibirska shop as well (gaining back about 30 seconds) so that's okay. It minces everything in Sibirska. I put a full load of ammo in it and it lasted until the first Grant battle in Machu Picchu (this means I need to buy ammo between ops in New York). I ended up with a whole bunch more kills than average (again because it destroys everything so quickly I don't have to stop to make kills). I estimate I saved at least 30 seconds above and beyond the cost of the shopping trip in Sibirska alone when weighing in the extra XP/cash/etc., but I haven't done any proper checking yet.

Flamethrowers + ammo glitch are proving to be so powerful that I might even try substituting FBG-20 for GRL-20 at Al Hari.

EDIT2: Semi-tested new route (gonna try a full-game run tomorrow afternoon):

do normally up to oil rig

run back to al hari and get fbg-30, full load of ammo

Now we can kill some extra things at no relative time cost (except the 70 seconds it takes to get it)

DON'T ACCIDENTALLY DUPE OVER THE FBG AGAIN (this is what happened before the Grant fight. There's no real way to actually run out of ammo, a full carrier-load is like 8000)

We'll need BZS-30 still for Bishop, but we can get it late (skip EAP-30 instead)

immediately at lvl27 run back to al hari and get fbg-40 (I know this seems like a huge waste of time, but with luck we can save those 70 seconds just on genoce alone - and the rest we save on sentinel).

then proceed as normal. never get bzs-40, grl-40. Probably no need to get uvg-40 either. This means (knock on wood) maybe full REPs even on a lower-yield run?

consider using fbg-40 against first form of atlas - slightly slower but I think it generates less enemy attacks.

ColonelFatso

Edit history:

ColonelFatso: 2014-04-17 01:53:26 pm

ColonelFatso: 2014-04-17 01:33:47 pm

2014-04-17 01:35:20 am

I lied. I did the run tonight.

part 1
part 2

Results:

- The run came out to 3:22 with about eight minutes of large mistakes (dumb stuff in the equip screen, forgetting to shop, dying, etc.) so I'm confident in my ability to bring it below 3:15 at least and probably more like 3:10.

- Bazooka doesn't pierce armour until 100% (at least - maybe it's 120). I, like an idiot, forgot that. I don't have room in the route to grind up the BZS so instead I'm going to ditch the BZS-30 and just accept a slower Bishop fight. It shouldn't be THAT much slower anyway if I throw caution to the wind and just rush him.

- Flamethrower absolutely destroys everything. Switching to FBG-40 mid-Esporte works surprisingly well - the Genoce fight at Via Blanca is done in a flash (that in itself justifies the 75-second detour), and it minces the rest of the enemies instantly. As an additional bonus, switching early gives the weapon much more experience for Sentinel.

- Spark Shot is still the weapon of choice for Atlas, for the most part. I do use flamethrower a bit on the standard enemies of the very last level to save SPS for Atlas Core (this time I was able to avoid using the BULLET, which is what I was looking for). I died in Phase 1 the first time, losing about 3 minutes, but my final Atlas time was only about 2 minutes slower than the first test run, so obviously I'm improving SOMETHING in my game.

- FBG-20 in the early game is still untested.

EDIT: FBG-20 in the early game is now tested. Results:

- Still get GRL-20, but don't overflow it. Only used for three missions: cliffs, autoscroller, base.

- On the way back down after killing the boss, get sg-02, fbg-20, fuel, ammo

- This means only 4000 units of ammo for the fbg-20. I'm still testing to figure out when it runs out and whether or not we need to pick up more ammo at some other point of the run/shop twice in Al Hari to overload to 8000.

- Otherwise, it's great. In my latest test run of Bergen 2 I forgot to equip the SG-02 and didn't even realize until Ark. It also minces everything in Zambola, including those tiny little missile Wanzers that are worth so much comparatively.

EDIT2: I'm satisfied. FBG-20 has plenty of ammo. We can skip GRL-30 (I still get Wanzer 3, but just for health). It's too bad, because skilled handling of the grenades looked really impressive and flamethrower spam is much less so, but fast is fast and I don't even need grenades for Balming anymore.

We're down to just four uses of the ammo dupe: BZS-10, FBG-20, FBG-30, FBG-40. Removing two ammo dupes saves about 90 seconds, further helping to offset the detours taken to get all this shit.

I lied. I did the run tonight.

[url=http://www.twitch.tv/colonelfatso/c/4081471]part 1[/url]
[url=http://www.twitch.tv/colonelfatso/c/4081472]part 2[/url]

Results:

- The run came out to 3:22 with about eight minutes of large mistakes (dumb stuff in the equip screen, forgetting to shop, dying, etc.) so I'm confident in my ability to bring it below 3:15 at least and probably more like 3:10.

- Bazooka doesn't pierce armour until 100% (at least - maybe it's 120). I, like an idiot, forgot that. I don't have room in the route to grind up the BZS so instead I'm going to ditch the BZS-30 and just accept a slower Bishop fight. It shouldn't be THAT much slower anyway if I throw caution to the wind and just rush him.

- Flamethrower absolutely destroys everything. Switching to FBG-40 mid-Esporte works surprisingly well - the Genoce fight at Via Blanca is done in a flash (that in itself justifies the 75-second detour), and it minces the rest of the enemies instantly. As an additional bonus, switching early gives the weapon much more experience for Sentinel.

- Spark Shot is still the weapon of choice for Atlas, for the most part. I do use flamethrower a bit on the standard enemies of the very last level to save SPS for Atlas Core (this time I was able to avoid using the BULLET, which is what I was looking for). I died in Phase 1 the first time, losing about 3 minutes, but my final Atlas time was only about 2 minutes slower than the first test run, so obviously I'm improving SOMETHING in my game.

- FBG-20 in the early game is still untested.

EDIT: FBG-20 in the early game is now tested. Results:

- Still get GRL-20, but don't overflow it. Only used for three missions: cliffs, autoscroller, base.

- On the way back down after killing the boss, get sg-02, fbg-20, fuel, ammo

- This means only 4000 units of ammo for the fbg-20. I'm still testing to figure out when it runs out and whether or not we need to pick up more ammo at some other point of the run/shop twice in Al Hari to overload to 8000.

- Otherwise, it's great. In my latest test run of Bergen 2 I forgot to equip the SG-02 and didn't even realize until Ark. It also minces everything in Zambola, including those tiny little missile Wanzers that are worth so much comparatively.

EDIT2: I'm satisfied. FBG-20 has plenty of ammo. We can skip GRL-30 (I still get Wanzer 3, but just for health). It's too bad, because skilled handling of the grenades looked really impressive and flamethrower spam is much less so, but fast is fast and I don't even need grenades for Balming anymore.

We're down to just four uses of the ammo dupe: BZS-10, FBG-20, FBG-30, FBG-40. Removing two ammo dupes saves about 90 seconds, further helping to offset the detours taken to get all this shit.

ColonelFatso

2014-04-23 06:52:56 pm

Got a 3:07:46 today with only three large mistakes:

1. Screwed up the ammo dupe in Borukta and had to do it again (loss of about 45-50 seconds)

2. Forgot to equip max pilot gear before Via Blanca (loss of about a minute, maybe? I haven't checked how long it took to figure it out and suicide)

3. Got cocky about my health and died near the end of Atlas 101 (loss of about 1:30-1:45)

Without those dumb mistakes 3:05 was a certainty, 3:04:xx maybe. This run will be sub-3h before summer's end.