Final Fantasy VI general discussion

2007-06-06 03:47:17 am

The safest way to deal with the IAF is to summon Siren right off the start. Then you have all the time in the world to use Joker Doom or kill them the conventional way.

Carcinogen

2007-06-06 04:02:02 am

No shit? What does Siren do in FFVI? I haven't played a low level game or any of the sort so I haven't had much use for her. Does she just put the enemy under Silence?

Essentia

2007-06-06 05:16:59 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Quote:

Just type up a small route with notes on a piece of paper and keep it near you when recording. If you ever feel like you don't know what exactly you're to be doing, just take a quick glance at the sheet whilst traveling. FF6 has enough down time as it is, so you might as well keep your mind focused on what's coming up.

Oh, I've already done that. I didn't want to have to depend on my memory for the entire game. Wink

I've got 9 pages of notes, although they're handwritten, and they're mainly what I have to do in the menu (equipment, espers, etc.).

Quote:

The safest way to deal with the IAF is to summon Siren right off the start. Then you have all the time in the world to use Joker Doom or kill them the conventional way.

The problem with using Siren is that all three of my people have certain Espers equipped so that they'll learn specific spells at specific times. I suppose only Sabin has to have his Espers at that point, though (so he will learn Doom right before Ultros); if I gave Siren to one of the others, I'd have to spend some more time learning spells in the Maranda desert. However, Edgar's the slowest of the group and usually gets his turn last (although that might change if I give him Running Shoes), and if Setzer is the one to summon Siren, then I'll have to wait for his next turn to be able to do Joker Doom. Also, I'm not sure how much Siren costs to summon, but no one has very much MP at this point. I happen to have a saved game right before the IAF, so I'll do a little testing to see how well using Siren works.

CaRC1n0g3n_VG: Yes, Siren silences all enemies.

[quote]Just type up a small route with notes on a piece of paper and keep it near you when recording.  If you ever feel like you don't know what exactly you're to be doing, just take a quick glance at the sheet whilst traveling.  FF6 has enough down time as it is, so you might as well keep your mind focused on what's coming up.[/quote]
Oh, I've already done that.  I didn't want to have to depend on my memory for the entire game. ;)  I've got 9 pages of notes, although they're handwritten, and they're mainly what I have to do in the menu (equipment, espers, etc.).

[quote]The safest way to deal with the IAF is to summon Siren right off the start.  Then you have all the time in the world to use Joker Doom or kill them the conventional way.[/quote]
The problem with using Siren is that all three of my people have certain Espers equipped so that they'll learn specific spells at specific times.  I suppose only Sabin [i]has[/i] to have his Espers at that point, though (so he will learn Doom right before Ultros); if I gave Siren to one of the others, I'd have to spend some more time learning spells in the Maranda desert.  However, Edgar's the slowest of the group and usually gets his turn last (although that might change if I give him Running Shoes), and if Setzer is the one to summon Siren, then I'll have to wait for his next turn to be able to do Joker Doom.  Also, I'm not sure how much Siren costs to summon, but no one has very much MP at this point.  I happen to have a saved game right before the IAF, so I'll do a little testing to see how well using Siren works.

CaRC1n0g3n_VG: Yes, Siren silences all enemies.

DTaeKim

Edit history:

DTaeKim: 2007-06-06 06:10:24 am

2007-06-06 06:09:12 am

Siren costs 18 MP. It's rather integral to a low level game, so I assume your characters should be able to pull it off.

As for the Maranda desert, if Sabin knows Doom, then learning spells should be a cinch because Doom takes care of Hoover and Bum Rush takes care of the Cactrot (or Edgar's Drill).

I suppose compromises must be made. Though doing Joker Doom right off the bat in the IAF is faster than Siren, Siren is probably safer, but slower. Your call.

Carcinogen

Edit history:

Carcinogen: 2007-06-06 06:31:04 am

2007-06-06 06:28:01 am

I would say use Siren then Joker Doom. It will just take off ~10 seconds, but IAF is quite the obstacle.

Zurreco

2007-06-06 08:11:08 am

Just call me the cynicism machine

Quote:

I would say use Siren then Joker Doom. It will just take off ~10 seconds, but IAF is quite the obstacle.

Agreed. Sacrificing a few seconds to make a huge obstacle obsolete seems acceptable for such a long SS run.

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2007-06-06 09:28:48 pm

2007-06-06 05:57:12 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Well, I tested using Siren on the IAF, and it actually didn't work that well. Most of the time, I was able to do Joker Doom right after summoning Siren, so it was no help and wasted time. The main problem is that since all the battles are pincer attacks, the enemies usually all get a turn before I do. So right now I'm leaning towards not using Siren.

Edit: Doh! My attempt today ended at the 3-way battle at Narshe when I accidentally ran into the Rider. Seriously, though, what's up with Sabin's blitzes? I got incorrect blitz inputs again at the exact same places (Vargas and first battle at Imperial Camp). I'm starting to think that it's not just my fault...

The_Enigma

2007-06-06 11:19:09 pm

I've had that thing with Blitz happen in every version of the game I've played. It probably isn't your fault.

About IAF, I didn't think Siren would end up being too helpful.

Master ZED

2007-06-07 12:03:01 am

Quote:

I'm starting to think that it's not just my fault...

Yeah, superstition is REALLY going to help. Roll Eyes

Look, even I screw up sometimes, and I've been playing since '94, but when I slow down a little, it makes all the difference in the world. Seriously, read this, specifically the timing section. You have a maximum of about one second between button presses; given your trouble, I'd take some more of that time at the trouble spots instead of trying to fly through them.

stanski

2007-06-07 01:33:23 am

wise fwom yo gwave

Since everyone is encouraging you to use slower safer strategies, I'll say the opposite: use the fastest strategies, suck it up, and don't get the run done till december! Go essentia Tongue

Essentia

2007-06-07 02:32:00 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Thanks for linking me to that blitz guide, Master ZED. I knew that there was a timer between button presses, but I didn't know how long it was. Maybe I'll just have to slow down a bit at those parts. I just thought it was weird that it was only those two places that it happened, but not anywhere else (and blitz gets used quite a bit in this run).

stanski: Just you wait, I'll have this done by November! Wink

The_Enigma

Edit history:

The_Enigma: 2007-06-07 02:59:59 am

2007-06-07 02:39:51 am

At least, we hope you are done by then.

Edit: I'm sure you will be, but it is possible that you aren't.

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2007-06-07 08:56:51 pm

2007-06-07 06:33:57 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

*sigh* Another run ended at the IAF last night.

I think this is what I'll do: Given Siren to Edgar, and have him summon only if Joker Doom didn't work (e.g. Setzer dies before he can do it). Edgar usually gets his turn last, so hopefully it will work out. This will mean that I'll have to fight more in the Maranda desert, but at least that will give me more money for shopping.

Oh, and I also managed to not mess up blitz against Vargas this time. Smiley

Edit: I think I've figured out why I keep having problems with blitz at those two specific places. I have the cursor set to memory, so usually the cursor is already on blitz, so I just select it and enter the command. However, at those two places (Vargas and Templar/Soldier battle at Imperial Camp), the cursor will never start out on blitz. I tested it out, and it seems that when the cursor is already on blitz, I do just fine, but if it's not already on blitz then I'm more likely to get an incorrect blitz input. (I guess it's just the way that I've trained myself to do it.) Now that I know what the problem is, hopefully I can fix it.

*sigh* Another run ended at the IAF last night.

I think this is what I'll do: Given Siren to Edgar, and have him summon only if Joker Doom didn't work (e.g. Setzer dies before he can do it).  Edgar usually gets his turn last, so hopefully it will work out.  This will mean that I'll have to fight more in the Maranda desert, but at least that will give me more money for shopping.

Oh, and I also managed to not mess up blitz against Vargas this time. :)

Edit: I think I've figured out why I keep having problems with blitz at those two specific places.  I have the cursor set to memory, so usually the cursor is already on blitz, so I just select it and enter the command.  However, at those two places (Vargas and Templar/Soldier battle at Imperial Camp), the cursor will never start out on blitz.  I tested it out, and it seems that when the cursor is already on blitz, I do just fine, but if it's not already on blitz then I'm more likely to get an incorrect blitz input.  (I guess it's just the way that I've trained myself to do it.)  Now that I know what the problem is, hopefully I can fix it.

Essentia

2007-06-08 05:27:30 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Okay, I've found a way to fix my blitz problem. When the cursor doesn't start out on blitz, I go down to blitz, select it, cancel, then select again and input the command, and it works every time. I'm pretty sure now that it's a problem with me and not with the game, because I never had this problem until I started speedrunning this game. I guess I'll just have to deal with it.

BTW, luck doesn't seem to be with me this morning (at least so far). I've already had two failed attempts, and the furthest I got was Mt. Kolts. The first one, Locke died at Mt. Kolts in an unfortunate back attack against some Tuskers; the second one, one of the Magi-Tek Armors didn't die after two autocrossbows, which has never happened before. Time to go try my luck again. Smiley

Ranti84

2007-06-09 12:09:43 am

the Watching Shadow

Very weird about the armor thing...maybe the sun blinded Edgar for a moment? Tongue

Not sure how I could help any but I hope you keep at it :D.

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2007-06-09 12:15:55 am

2007-06-09 12:15:42 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Well, at least I keep getting faster on this run. (It seems that on each attempt I find another little optimization.) Just hopefully I'll actually finish the run one of these times. Wink

Essentia

2007-06-11 05:40:53 am

Everything's better with Magitek

You know, maybe it's a good thing that I haven't actually finished this run yet. I've figured out a way to cut out some of the spells that I was originally planning to learn. Mainly, I realized that I don't need to learn Remedy and only one person needs to learn Doom instead of two. This should cut down on the number of fights I have to do in the Maranda desert. (If I've calculated correctly, I should only need to fight one battle there.) It probably won't save a ton of time, but a little bit is better than nothing. I've also optimized the final battle a little more so that it should be a bit faster. This will also mean that I can equip Siren for the IAF without needing to fight extra battles later on to catch up on the missed MP.

stanski

2007-06-11 07:32:07 am

wise fwom yo gwave

Next thing you know, you'll find 10 more improvements and then the run won't be finished till january :-)

Carcinogen

2007-06-11 08:38:29 am

I give it until August perhaps. The only real hurdle is the IAF, so we gotta find a way to snuff him.

Essentia

2007-06-11 06:34:45 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Quote:

Next thing you know, you'll find 10 more improvements and then the run won't be finished till january :-)

Actually, I found a few more improvements while trying things out this morning. None of them save a ton of time, but still. Smiley

And I think the IAF should be easier now that I'll have Siren as a backup.

Essentia

2007-06-14 04:53:38 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

It turns out that a lot of the improvements that I came up with won't work. I had it figured out where I could not have to fight anything in the Cave to the Sealed Gate, but then everyone is on lower levels, which makes it a lot harder to survive the IAF. (I was even having trouble with Ultros 3. Sad

) It's not a complete loss, though; I'll still be able to fight fewer battles in the Maranda desert. I'll probably start recording again today and try out my new plan.

Essentia

2007-06-15 06:09:01 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Bleh, none of my plans have been working lately. I thought I'd found a way to survive Merton on the 3rd Tier (instead of just hoping it doesn't use Merton) and still be able to mimic Joker Doom on it. I thought if I sacrified 2 1/2 minutes and got the Ice Shield (nullifies fire), then equipped that on Gogo, he would survive Merton and then take out the 3rd Tier by mimicking the Joker Doom from the previous Tier--which works, but then Celes isn't alive to protect him from Calmness. I've thought about giving the Ice Shield or Minerva to Celes or the Red Jacket to Edgar, but then he/she won't have >128 M. Block. And anyway, I'd have to revive everyone else and then do another reverse Joker Doom, which is a lot slower and more dangerous.

More often than not, the 3rd Tier doesn't use Merton before I kill it, but it happens often enough that I'm worried about it. I haven't made it this far on any of my attempts yet, but it would really be sad if I got there and then got wiped out by Merton. If anyone has any other ideas, please let me know.

Bleh, none of my plans have been working lately.  I thought I'd found a way to survive Merton on the 3rd Tier (instead of just hoping it doesn't use Merton) and still be able to mimic Joker Doom on it.  I thought if I sacrified 2 1/2 minutes and got the Ice Shield (nullifies fire), then equipped that on Gogo, he would survive Merton and then take out the 3rd Tier by mimicking the Joker Doom from the previous Tier--which works, but then Celes isn't alive to protect him from Calmness.  I've thought about giving the Ice Shield or Minerva to Celes or the Red Jacket to Edgar, but then he/she won't have >128 M. Block.  And anyway, I'd have to revive everyone else and then do another reverse Joker Doom, which is a lot slower and more dangerous.

More often than not, the 3rd Tier doesn't use Merton before I kill it, but it happens often enough that I'm worried about it.  I haven't made it this far on any of my attempts yet, but it would really be sad if I got there and then got wiped out by Merton.  If anyone has any other ideas, please let me know.

Carcinogen

2007-06-15 10:09:44 pm

Wouldn't fire shield be better against that? Or did I use those against the wrong things when I played through the game? =X

Essentia

2007-06-16 12:52:16 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Flame Shield absorbs fire, and Ice Shield nullifies fire. Getting Flame Shield isn't really an option; I can only get it at Cyan's Soul or from Phoenix Cave (after getting Locke). The only Ice Shield I can get is in Mt. Zozo, which will take about 2 1/2 minutes to get. (I timed it.) The only other things that absorb or nullify fire are Minerva, Red Jacket, and Paladin Shield, none of which will really work in my run.

Master ZED

2007-06-16 01:31:42 am

The Thunder Shld is available just before you get Gogo, and it nulls Wind. Merton is Fire/Wind elemental, so it won't stand up to the shield.