Final Fantasy VI general discussion

2007-04-09 04:14:55 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

BalnabZ, I had another question about your run. When you went to Vector, you talked to the lady (refused to pledge allegiance) and fought the battle in order to get healed for free. But you can get healed for free if you enter the airship before heading to Vector, which I believe is faster. Was there a reason you fought the battle instead?

Lucid Faia

2007-04-09 04:36:43 pm

Yeah, I said it.

Vanish/Doom may be faster than Psycho Cyan, but I still think the time spent learning those spells would more than cancel it out. The real merit in using V/D would be that it's a little more reliable, better suited for a single-segment run.

Essentia

2007-04-09 07:13:38 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

I guess it depends mainly on whether you can learn the needed spells along the way or have to fight extra battles to learn them. I'm trying as much as possible to learn them along the way.

Anyway, unfortunately I found a problem with my current plan. With this plan, I won't have Vanish/Doom for the 4th Ultros fight, and so I was planning to muddle/hit Setzer and have him do 7-7-bar Joker Doom to Ultros (like in the TAS). However, since I'll have only 3 people for that battle, it can make it difficult to time Setzer's slots correctly. Basically, I'd have to tell one person to Muddle Setzer, tell the next person to hit him, and then input 7-7-bar slots before he gets muddled. It's possible, but I'm not sure I want to take that chance. I thought about it some more, and I came up with another plan that might work better and might also be faster.

I'll see if I can explain it: Edgar learns Doom and Mog learns Vanish right before 4th Ultros so I can use Vanish/Doom on him. Then Edgar starts learning Vanish, and when Celes joins on the Floating Continent she starts learning Doom; hopefully they both learn these in Daryl's Tomb. In the WoR, I get first, then Gogo, then either Sabin or Cyan (whichever is quicker). In Kefka's Tower the groups are Edgar & Gogo, Celes & Mog, and Setzer & Sabin/Cyan. Since Edgar knows both Vanish and Doom, Gogo will have both of them as well. This might even make things easier against the final boss since I'll have two people who can do Slots and possibly two people who can do Psycho Cyan.

I guess it depends mainly on whether you can learn the needed spells along the way or have to fight extra battles to learn them.  I'm trying as much as possible to learn them along the way.

Anyway, unfortunately I found a problem with my current plan.  With this plan, I won't have Vanish/Doom for the 4th Ultros fight, and so I was planning to muddle/hit Setzer and have him do 7-7-bar Joker Doom to Ultros (like in the TAS).  However, since I'll have only 3 people for that battle, it can make it difficult to time Setzer's slots correctly.  Basically, I'd have to tell one person to Muddle Setzer, tell the next person to hit him, and then input 7-7-bar slots before he gets muddled.  It's possible, but I'm not sure I want to take that chance.  I thought about it some more, and I came up with another plan that might work better and might also be faster.

I'll see if I can explain it: Edgar learns Doom and Mog learns Vanish right before 4th Ultros so I can use Vanish/Doom on him.  Then Edgar starts learning Vanish, and when Celes joins on the Floating Continent she starts learning Doom; hopefully they both learn these in Daryl's Tomb.  In the WoR, I get first, then Gogo, then either Sabin or Cyan (whichever is quicker).  In Kefka's Tower the groups are Edgar & Gogo, Celes & Mog, and Setzer & Sabin/Cyan.  Since Edgar knows both Vanish and Doom, Gogo will have both of them as well.  This might even make things easier against the final boss since I'll have two people who can do Slots and possibly two people who can do Psycho Cyan.

Carcinogen

2007-04-09 07:35:24 pm

Psycho Cyan is more reliable than slots. Even if you pause to line it up. Besides, Psycho Cyan would look cooler Grin

Essentia

2007-04-09 08:34:10 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Quote:

Psycho Cyan is more reliable than slots.

Definitely true. Psycho Cyan will probably be my backup if I mess Slots up. I've been practicing Slots a lot, though, and I'm getting pretty good at lining up 7-7-7 Joker Doom, but I still have trouble with 7-7-Bar sometimes. I'm hoping to get pretty consistent at it.

I'm not sure that Psycho Cyan looks all that cool, though. Maybe at first, but it gets pretty boring watching an Imp attack over and over. Tongue

BalnabZ

2007-04-09 09:00:37 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

"BalnabZ, I had another question about your run. When you went to Vector, you talked to the lady (refused to pledge allegiance) and fought the battle in order to get healed for free. But you can get healed for free if you enter the airship before heading to Vector, which I believe is faster. Was there a reason you fought the battle instead?"

Why yes there was: I never thought about doing it the other way.

Essentia

2007-04-09 09:56:34 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Oh, okay then. I think I'll use the guy on the airship to get healed. Wink

I've also decided to use the Thunder Rod against Tunnel Armor--it seems to be the more dangerous one.

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2007-04-10 08:18:45 am

2007-04-10 07:59:08 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Well, I did a practice (sort of segmented) run today all the way up to Kefka's Tower. I have a time of 5:21 just before entering the tower, but this time will definitely improve since I made quite a few mistakes. I got only Mog, Sabin, and Gogo in the WoR. It seems that this will work, except for one problem: Gogo can't do SwdTech, or at least I don't have any weapon that will allow him to do it. Does anyone know what you have to equip on him to be able to do SwdTech?

Edit: I should mention that my plan didn't go perfectly. The only thing that didn't work out was Edgar learning Vanish and Celes learning Doom in Daryl's Tomb--there's no way it was going to happen without a lot of extra battles. So I ended up fighting 3 Cactrots to finish learning their spells.

Edit 2: Never mind, I just looked back through the thread and found this:

Quote:

You don't need Cyan's weapons to do Swdtech with Gogo. Just a knife. In particular, I just bought a Swordbreaker from the weapons shop in Miranda in WoR.

However, it doesn't work with any knife, which was confusing me. But this should work fine.

Well, I did a practice (sort of segmented) run today all the way up to Kefka's Tower.  I have a time of 5:21 just before entering the tower, but this time will definitely improve since I made quite a few mistakes.  I got only Mog, Sabin, and Gogo in the WoR.  It seems that this will work, except for one problem: Gogo can't do SwdTech, or at least I don't have any weapon that will allow him to do it.  Does anyone know what you have to equip on him to be able to do SwdTech?

Edit: I should mention that my plan didn't go perfectly.  The only thing that didn't work out was Edgar learning Vanish and Celes learning Doom in Daryl's Tomb--there's no way it was going to happen without a lot of extra battles.  So I ended up fighting 3 Cactrots to finish learning their spells.

Edit 2: Never mind, I just looked back through the thread and found this:
[quote]You don't need Cyan's weapons to do Swdtech with Gogo. Just a knife. In particular, I just bought a Swordbreaker from the weapons shop in Miranda in WoR.[/quote]

However, it doesn't work with any knife, which was confusing me.  But this should work fine.

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2007-04-11 10:01:52 pm

2007-04-11 09:48:20 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Sorry for the triple post--you can all throw tomatoes at me. Tongue

I'm sorry to say this, and some of you might be disappointed, but I don't think I'm going to use Psycho Cyan at all anymore. I just tried doing it with Gogo, and it took 13 minutes to defeat the 3rd Tier. He had Sword Breaker equipped (so he could do SwdTech), but I hadn't given him the Item command, so he couldn't change weapons during battle. Even if he could have, I didn't have any other weapons that he could use. He was in the front row and had one Hero Ring (I stupidly sold my Atlas Armlet), and he was doing only 70-80 damage each hit. Unless there's a way to substantially increase his damage, I won't be using this method. It's okay, though, because I think I've come up with an alternate plan. It still needs to be tested, but I think it will work.

Edit: I meant to add that Gogo was on level 20.

(By the way, if you haven't or aren't already in the process...download my FFIX run! ;))

Lucid Faia

2007-04-11 09:57:16 pm

Yeah, I said it.

Haha, wow. I didn't think Gogo would be doing so little damage. Well, so much for that plan.

Reagle

2007-04-11 10:20:27 pm

I'm a HUGE FFVI Fan, so I can't wait to see this run. (Downloading your FFIX run at the moment.) I've played it quite a few times over as well, though the thought of a speed run never crossed my mind, let alone a single segment. Well, I hope you can manage a time you are proud of, and I look forward to reading about your progress thus far.

Rhonin

2007-04-12 12:03:26 am

Aku Soku Zan

My first post on SDA! 8)

Great job on the FFIX run. I'm very excited about your progress on FFVI.

It's been a while since I've played, but perhaps I can give you some more ideas to try out. Have you considered using Gau in your run? Many people overlook him, and he has some great abilities that could help your speed run. Check out this Rage guide

[ftp]http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/file/554041/35118[/ftp]

In particular, check out the "Legendary Strategies" section.

Wind God is AWESOME, it will kill almost everything. Also, take a look at the Deep Eye and Nightshade. Dread ignores death protection and Charm is unblockable. While Wind God would be the main reason to use him, those 2 rages could be very useful as well.

Essentia

2007-04-12 12:18:18 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Thanks, Rhonin. I guess I haven't thought much about using Gau. He can be pretty powerful, but I'm not sure how well he would work in a single-segment run. It might be difficult to get the Merit Award to do Wind God (can get it only from Colosseum). I probably won't be running into Deep Eye and Nightshade in the run. I can't quite remember where you fight them--I think Nightshade is in Owzer's House, but I don't know about Deep Eye (Narshe in WoR, maybe?). Even if I did run into them, it will probably take a while to get them on the Veldt to learn their rages. I think there's just too much randomness involved with him for it to work in a single-segment run, but he could be useful in a segmented run.

Rhonin

2007-04-12 06:49:55 am

Aku Soku Zan

Hey, I'm back with more.

Remember that b/c you will be skipping a lot of random encounters with the Moogle and Charm Bangles, you will also be limiting what monster formations appear on the Veldt. As such, you will be able to cycle through the different groups MUCH faster and be able to learn the Rages you need sooner.

Not to mention, this will also give you the opportunity to learn spells for the people that need them.

Regarding Nightshade, it is a forced encounter in Owzers house, by examining the portrait of flowers. With the Moogle Charm and Sprint shoes, you could run in and quickly kill it for the Veldt. I think it is definitely worth the side trip as this attack works on ALL enemies (Guardian and Kefka too), cannot be broken (unless Gau or the Enemy dies), and effectively makes them harmless.

Also, Gau has access to several Instant Death attacks that can be exploited with Vanish. Besides several Rages that cast Doom, Break, or X-zone, he can also use:

Snare - The best ID attack he can use. Enemies cannot counter it. Not to mention the fact that you can get this VERY early in the game.
Learned from Rhodox, in the grass outside South Figaro in WoB.

Dread - Learned about it from the Rage guide I linked you to. While Break and Demon Eye check for ID and Petrify protection, Dread skips the ID and only checks for Petrify protection. Appently, it can kill certain enemies and bosses that are normally immune to Death. Here's the list:

Hazer, Baskervor, Suriander, Gilomantis, Pug, Wart Puck, Vectaur, Brontaur, Cephaler, Gigan Toad, Spek Tor, Latimeria, Lunaris, Nastidon, Karkass, Borras, Trixter, Dadaluma, Tentacle x3, Hidonite, Naughty

Learned from Deep Eye, located in the forrest outside Kohlingen in WoR.

About the Merit Award, yah, it seems like it would be too time consuming to try and get one. You have to bet an Imp Halberd for a Cat hood, then bet the Cat Hood for the Merit Award. Unfortunately, the only way to get an Imp Halberd is:

STEAL FROM: Mantodea
WIN FROM: Tyranosaur
MORPH FROM: Cactrot, Pug, Pugs

While easily do-able with saves, not so much in a SS. Does Vanish work with Morph?

You could also try using Dischord on the Mantodea, to make it easier to steal.

Hey, I'm back with more.

Remember that b/c you will be skipping a lot of random encounters with the Moogle and Charm Bangles, you will also be limiting what monster formations appear on the Veldt. As such, you will be able to cycle through the different groups MUCH faster and be able to learn the Rages you need sooner.

Not to mention, this will also give you the opportunity to learn spells for the people that need them.

Regarding Nightshade, it is a forced encounter in Owzers house, by examining the portrait of flowers. With the Moogle Charm and Sprint shoes, you could run in and quickly kill it for the Veldt. I think it is definitely worth the side trip as this attack works on ALL enemies (Guardian and Kefka too), cannot be broken (unless Gau or the Enemy dies), and effectively makes them harmless.

Also, Gau has access to several Instant Death attacks that can be exploited with Vanish. Besides several Rages that cast Doom, Break, or X-zone, he can also use:

Snare - The best ID attack he can use. Enemies cannot counter it. Not to mention the fact that you can get this VERY early in the game.
Learned from Rhodox, in the grass outside South Figaro in WoB.

Dread - Learned about it from the Rage guide I linked you to. While Break and Demon Eye check for ID and Petrify protection, Dread skips the ID and only checks for Petrify protection. Appently, it can kill certain enemies and bosses that are normally immune to Death. Here's the list:

Hazer, Baskervor, Suriander, Gilomantis, Pug, Wart Puck, Vectaur, Brontaur, Cephaler, Gigan Toad, Spek Tor, Latimeria, Lunaris, Nastidon, Karkass, Borras, Trixter, Dadaluma, Tentacle x3, Hidonite, Naughty

Learned from Deep Eye, located in the forrest outside Kohlingen in WoR.

About the Merit Award, yah, it seems like it would be too time consuming to try and get one. You have to bet an Imp Halberd for a Cat hood, then bet the Cat Hood for the Merit Award. Unfortunately, the only way to get an Imp Halberd is:

STEAL FROM:  Mantodea
WIN FROM:  Tyranosaur
MORPH FROM:  Cactrot, Pug, Pugs

While easily do-able with saves, not so much in a SS. Does Vanish work with Morph?

You could also try using Dischord on the Mantodea, to make it easier to steal.

Essentia

2007-04-12 07:59:50 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Quote:

Remember that b/c you will be skipping a lot of random encounters with the Moogle and Charm Bangles, you will also be limiting what monster formations appear on the Veldt. As such, you will be able to cycle through the different groups MUCH faster and be able to learn the Rages you need sooner.

Don't random encounters show up on the Veldt even if you run away from them? If so, by the time I get to the WoR I will still have run into quite a few. I'm not sure that the rages would save enough time to offset the time it would take to get them on the Veldt.

Quote:

Not to mention, this will also give you the opportunity to learn spells for the people that need them.

I've got it planned out so that I have to fight only 3 extra battles (Cactrot) to learn all the spells that I need.

Quote:

Regarding Nightshade, it is a forced encounter in Owzers house, by examining the portrait of flowers. With the Moogle Charm and Sprint shoes, you could run in and quickly kill it for the Veldt. I think it is definitely worth the side trip as this attack works on ALL enemies (Guardian and Kefka too), cannot be broken (unless Gau or the Enemy dies), and effectively makes them harmless.

I'm not sure that it would be worth it. Most bosses I can kill very quickly with Vanish/Doom or Joker Doom, and using Nightshade would make those take longer. It might be helpful against the final bosses (does it work against the Tiers?), because sometimes I have a hard time keeping everyone alive long enough to do reverse Joker Doom. If it doesn't work on the Tiers, though, then I don't think it will be worth it, since Kefka's the easiest out of the final battles.

Quote:

Also, Gau has access to several Instant Death attacks that can be exploited with Vanish. Besides several Rages that cast Doom, Break, or X-zone, he can also use:

Snare - The best ID attack he can use. Enemies cannot counter it. Not to mention the fact that you can get this VERY early in the game.
Learned from Rhodox, in the grass outside South Figaro in WoB.

Dread - Learned about it from the Rage guide I linked you to. While Break and Demon Eye check for ID and Petrify protection, Dread skips the ID and only checks for Petrify protection. Appently, it can kill certain enemies and bosses that are normally immune to Death. Here's the list:

Hazer, Baskervor, Suriander, Gilomantis, Pug, Wart Puck, Vectaur, Brontaur, Cephaler, Gigan Toad, Spek Tor, Latimeria, Lunaris, Nastidon, Karkass, Borras, Trixter, Dadaluma, Tentacle x3, Hidonite, Naughty

Learned from Deep Eye, located in the forrest outside Kohlingen in WoR.

By the time someone learns Vanish, someone also knows Doom, so it would be more reliable to use that than Gau's rage. I suppose before that, I could Muddle someone so they cast Phantom on the enemies, but that could be a little risky. Still, someone would have to learn Muddle early enough for this to be useful.

Quote:

About the Merit Award, yah, it seems like it would be too time consuming to try and get one. You have to bet an Imp Halberd for a Cat hood, then bet the Cat Hood for the Merit Award. Unfortunately, the only way to get an Imp Halberd is:

STEAL FROM: Mantodea
WIN FROM: Tyranosaur
MORPH FROM: Cactrot, Pug, Pugs

While easily do-able with saves, not so much in a SS. Does Vanish work with Morph?

You could also try using Dischord on the Mantodea, to make it easier to steal.

Yeah, I think it would be too hard to get a Merit Award in an SS run. What do you mean about Vanish working with Morph?

I don't mean to shoot down all of your ideas--it's good to hear some other things that I didn't think about. I'll have to keep them in mind if I ever do a segmented run for this game.

[quote]Remember that b/c you will be skipping a lot of random encounters with the Moogle and Charm Bangles, you will also be limiting what monster formations appear on the Veldt. As such, you will be able to cycle through the different groups MUCH faster and be able to learn the Rages you need sooner. [/quote]
Don't random encounters show up on the Veldt even if you run away from them?  If so, by the time I get to the WoR I will still have run into quite a few.  I'm not sure that the rages would save enough time to offset the time it would take to get them on the Veldt.

[quote]Not to mention, this will also give you the opportunity to learn spells for the people that need them. [/quote]
I've got it planned out so that I have to fight only 3 extra battles (Cactrot) to learn all the spells that I need.

[quote]Regarding Nightshade, it is a forced encounter in Owzers house, by examining the portrait of flowers. With the Moogle Charm and Sprint shoes, you could run in and quickly kill it for the Veldt. I think it is definitely worth the side trip as this attack works on ALL enemies (Guardian and Kefka too), cannot be broken (unless Gau or the Enemy dies), and effectively makes them harmless. [/quote]
I'm not sure that it would be worth it.  Most bosses I can kill very quickly with Vanish/Doom or Joker Doom, and using Nightshade would make those take longer.  It might be helpful against the final bosses (does it work against the Tiers?), because sometimes I have a hard time keeping everyone alive long enough to do reverse Joker Doom.  If it doesn't work on the Tiers, though, then I don't think it will be worth it, since Kefka's the easiest out of the final battles.

[quote]Also, Gau has access to several Instant Death attacks that can be exploited with Vanish. Besides several Rages that cast Doom, Break, or X-zone, he can also use:

Snare - The best ID attack he can use. Enemies cannot counter it. Not to mention the fact that you can get this VERY early in the game.
Learned from Rhodox, in the grass outside South Figaro in WoB.

Dread - Learned about it from the Rage guide I linked you to. While Break and Demon Eye check for ID and Petrify protection, Dread skips the ID and only checks for Petrify protection. Appently, it can kill certain enemies and bosses that are normally immune to Death. Here's the list:

Hazer, Baskervor, Suriander, Gilomantis, Pug, Wart Puck, Vectaur, Brontaur, Cephaler, Gigan Toad, Spek Tor, Latimeria, Lunaris, Nastidon, Karkass, Borras, Trixter, Dadaluma, Tentacle x3, Hidonite, Naughty

Learned from Deep Eye, located in the forrest outside Kohlingen in WoR.[/quote]
By the time someone learns Vanish, someone also knows Doom, so it would be more reliable to use that than Gau's rage.  I suppose before that, I could Muddle someone so they cast Phantom on the enemies, but that could be a little risky.  Still, someone would have to learn Muddle early enough for this to be useful.

[quote]About the Merit Award, yah, it seems like it would be too time consuming to try and get one. You have to bet an Imp Halberd for a Cat hood, then bet the Cat Hood for the Merit Award. Unfortunately, the only way to get an Imp Halberd is:

STEAL FROM:  Mantodea
WIN FROM:  Tyranosaur
MORPH FROM:  Cactrot, Pug, Pugs

While easily do-able with saves, not so much in a SS. Does Vanish work with Morph?

You could also try using Dischord on the Mantodea, to make it easier to steal.[/quote]
Yeah, I think it would be too hard to get a Merit Award in an SS run. What do you mean about Vanish working with Morph?

I don't mean to shoot down all of your ideas--it's good to hear some other things that I didn't think about.  I'll have to keep them in mind if I ever do a segmented run for this game.

Rhonin

2007-04-12 10:07:08 pm

Aku Soku Zan

Quote:

Don't random encounters show up on the Veldt even if you run away from them? If so, by the time I get to the WoR I will still have run into quite a few. I'm not sure that the rages would save enough time to offset the time it would take to get them on the Veldt.

It depends on how many Groups and what Formations you activate. There's roughly 60 Groups total, each containing 1-7 enemy formations. Each time you encounter an enemy, that group and formation is "activated" on the Veldt. After you first step on to the Veldt, you randomly face a formation from a group that you have encountered before. After that, the Veldt will go through the groups in numerical order. The important thing here is that you only fight ONE formation before it skips to the NEXT group. Here's an example:

Let's say your first encounter on the Veldt is
2x Leafer
1x Dark Wind

This is Formation 7 from Group 1.

After completing the battle. The game will next pick a Formation from Group 2, then Group 3, etc. If you have not activated any Formations from a Group, the game will skip to the next one.
It is possible to manipulate the Groups. There are 2 ways that I know of. First, you can save and Load. This skips 13 Groups ahead of the last Group you encountered. The other way is to get in to a battle off of the Veldt, which will reset the Groups and randomly pick a new one when you return to the Veldt.

Quote:

I'm not sure that it would be worth it. Most bosses I can kill very quickly with Vanish/Doom or Joker Doom, and using Nightshade would make those take longer. It might be helpful against the final bosses (does it work against the Tiers?), because sometimes I have a hard time keeping everyone alive long enough to do reverse Joker Doom. If it doesn't work on the Tiers, though, then I don't think it will be worth it, since Kefka's the easiest out of the final battles.

Yes, Nightshade will work against the Tiers as well, but be aware that Charm is a Single Target special.

Quote:

Yeah, I think it would be too hard to get a Merit Award in an SS run. What do you mean about Vanish working with Morph?

Sorry for not explaining. Using Vanish on a mob, is that it makes any spell 100% accurate while the mob is invisible IIRC. While I know it works with spells like Doom, Break, Snare, etc. I was curious if it would work with Morph?

Quote:

I don't mean to shoot down all of your ideas--it's good to hear some other things that I didn't think about. I'll have to keep them in mind if I ever do a segmented run for this game.

No worries. That's the great thing about forums like this, is that we can throw out ideas for each other. Grin

Have you made any more progress?

[quote]
Don't random encounters show up on the Veldt even if you run away from them?  If so, by the time I get to the WoR I will still have run into quite a few.  I'm not sure that the rages would save enough time to offset the time it would take to get them on the Veldt.[/quote]

It depends on how many Groups and what Formations you activate. There's roughly 60 Groups total, each containing 1-7 enemy formations. Each time you encounter an enemy, that group and formation is "activated" on the Veldt. After you first step on to the Veldt, you randomly face a formation from a group that you have encountered before. After that, the Veldt will go through the groups in numerical order. The important thing here is that you only fight ONE formation before it skips to the NEXT group. Here's an example:

Let's say your first encounter on the Veldt is
2x Leafer
1x Dark Wind

This is Formation 7 from Group 1.

After completing the battle. The game will next pick a Formation from Group 2, then Group 3, etc. If you have not   activated any Formations from a Group, the game will skip to the next one.
It is possible to manipulate the Groups. There are 2 ways that I know of. First, you can save and Load. This skips 13 Groups ahead of the last Group you encountered. The other way is to get in to a battle off of the Veldt, which will reset the Groups and randomly pick a new one when you return to the Veldt.

[quote]
I'm not sure that it would be worth it.  Most bosses I can kill very quickly with Vanish/Doom or Joker Doom, and using Nightshade would make those take longer.  It might be helpful against the final bosses (does it work against the Tiers?), because sometimes I have a hard time keeping everyone alive long enough to do reverse Joker Doom.  If it doesn't work on the Tiers, though, then I don't think it will be worth it, since Kefka's the easiest out of the final battles.[/quote]

Yes, Nightshade will work against the Tiers as well, but be aware that Charm is a Single Target special.

[quote]
Yeah, I think it would be too hard to get a Merit Award in an SS run. What do you mean about Vanish working with Morph?[/quote]

Sorry for not explaining. Using Vanish on a mob, is that it makes any spell 100% accurate while the mob is invisible IIRC. While I know it works with spells like Doom, Break, Snare, etc. I was curious if it would work with Morph?

[quote]
I don't mean to shoot down all of your ideas--it's good to hear some other things that I didn't think about.  I'll have to keep them in mind if I ever do a segmented run for this game.[/quote]

No worries. That's the great thing about forums like this, is that we can throw out ideas for each other.   ;D
Have you made any more progress?

Essentia

2007-04-12 10:24:12 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Quote:

It depends on how many Groups and what Formations you activate. There's roughly 60 Groups total, each containing 1-7 enemy formations. Each time you encounter an enemy, that group and formation is "activated" on the Veldt. After you first step on to the Veldt, you randomly face a formation from a group that you have encountered before. After that, the Veldt will go through the groups in numerical order. The important thing here is that you only fight ONE formation before it skips to the NEXT group. Here's an example:

Let's say your first encounter on the Veldt is
2x Leafer
1x Dark Wind

This is Formation 7 from Group 1.

After completing the battle. The game will next pick a Formation from Group 2, then Group 3, etc. If you have not activated any Formations from a Group, the game will skip to the next one.
It is possible to manipulate the Groups. There are 2 ways that I know of. First, you can save and Load. This skips 13 Groups ahead of the last Group you encountered. The other way is to get in to a battle off of the Veldt, which will reset the Groups and randomly pick a new one when you return to the Veldt.

Saving and loading is out of the question. The other way just seems too random to work well in an SS run.

Quote:

Yes, Nightshade will work against the Tiers as well, but be aware that Charm is a Single Target special.

I will probably go to Jidoor in the WoR to get some Cherub Down (will make 1st Tier easier), but I seem to remember that Nightshade is a ways into Owzer's house. That combined with the problem of getting on the Veldt seem to make it not worth it.

Quote:

Sorry for not explaining. Using Vanish on a mob, is that it makes any spell 100% accurate while the mob is invisible IIRC. While I know it works with spells like Doom, Break, Snare, etc. I was curious if it would work with Morph?

I guess I'm still not sure what you mean. Are you talking about Ragnarok's metamorph (think that's what it's called) ability that turns them into an item? If so, I don't really know whether that works with Vanish or not.

Quote:

Have you made any more progress?

The main trouble I'm having is with the final bosses (tiers and Kefka). Every time I try it, it seems that some new problem shows up. For example, here's my latest problem:

This is how it's supposed to go for Tiers 1 & 2 and Kefka:

-Mog casts Vanish on Setzer
-Edgar casts Muddle on Setzer
-Celes hits Setzer to remove Muddle
-Setzer does 7-7-Bar Joker Doom, but now it hits the enemies

For this to work, I have to confirm 7-7-Bar before Setzer gets Muddled, which is why I have Mog do something to take up some time while I input Edgar's and Celes's commands (and Vanish makes sure that Muddle doesn't miss). However, sometimes even if I input their commands in this order, Celes goes before Edgar, and so I end up Joker Dooming my own party. I'm assuming this is because Celes's speed is higher than Edgar's (34 vs. 30), so it would be better to switch their roles. However, I'm going to have to do some replanning to make sure that Celes learns Muddle, because she didn't learn it in this practice run. I hope it will be possible without having to fight any extra battles to learn magic.

This of course doesn't mention a bunch of other details, such as keeping everyone alive long enough to do this and having them all survive the Tiers' final attacks, but I won't go into those unless people really want to hear about them.

[quote]

It depends on how many Groups and what Formations you activate. There's roughly 60 Groups total, each containing 1-7 enemy formations. Each time you encounter an enemy, that group and formation is "activated" on the Veldt. After you first step on to the Veldt, you randomly face a formation from a group that you have encountered before. After that, the Veldt will go through the groups in numerical order. The important thing here is that you only fight ONE formation before it skips to the NEXT group. Here's an example:

Let's say your first encounter on the Veldt is
2x Leafer
1x Dark Wind

This is Formation 7 from Group 1.

After completing the battle. The game will next pick a Formation from Group 2, then Group 3, etc. If you have not   activated any Formations from a Group, the game will skip to the next one.
It is possible to manipulate the Groups. There are 2 ways that I know of. First, you can save and Load. This skips 13 Groups ahead of the last Group you encountered. The other way is to get in to a battle off of the Veldt, which will reset the Groups and randomly pick a new one when you return to the Veldt. [/quote]
Saving and loading is out of the question.  The other way just seems too random to work well in an SS run.

[quote]Yes, Nightshade will work against the Tiers as well, but be aware that Charm is a Single Target special. [/quote]
I will probably go to Jidoor in the WoR to get some Cherub Down (will make 1st Tier easier), but I seem to remember that Nightshade is a ways into Owzer's house.  That combined with the problem of getting on the Veldt seem to make it not worth it.

[quote]Sorry for not explaining. Using Vanish on a mob, is that it makes any spell 100% accurate while the mob is invisible IIRC. While I know it works with spells like Doom, Break, Snare, etc. I was curious if it would work with Morph?[/quote]
I guess I'm still not sure what you mean.  Are you talking about Ragnarok's metamorph (think that's what it's called) ability that turns them into an item?  If so, I don't really know whether that works with Vanish or not.

[quote]Have you made any more progress?[/quote]
The main trouble I'm having is with the final bosses (tiers and Kefka).  Every time I try it, it seems that some new problem shows up.  For example, here's my latest problem:

This is how it's supposed to go for Tiers 1 & 2 and Kefka:

-Mog casts Vanish on Setzer
-Edgar casts Muddle on Setzer
-Celes hits Setzer to remove Muddle
-Setzer does 7-7-Bar Joker Doom, but now it hits the enemies

For this to work, I have to confirm 7-7-Bar before Setzer gets Muddled, which is why I have Mog do something to take up some time while I input Edgar's and Celes's commands (and Vanish makes sure that Muddle doesn't miss).  However, sometimes even if I input their commands in this order, Celes goes before Edgar, and so I end up Joker Dooming my own party.  I'm assuming this is because Celes's speed is higher than Edgar's (34 vs. 30), so it would be better to switch their roles.  However, I'm going to have to do some replanning to make sure that Celes learns Muddle, because she didn't learn it in this practice run.  I hope it will be possible without having to fight any extra battles to learn magic.

This of course doesn't mention a bunch of other details, such as keeping everyone alive long enough to do this and having them all survive the Tiers' final attacks, but I won't go into those unless people really want to hear about them.

DTaeKim

2007-04-13 05:26:37 am

Actually, Nightshade is obtained by examining the painting of the plants in Owzer's House. You don't even have to delve into the actual dungeon.

Essentia

2007-04-13 06:15:45 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Oh yeah, that's right! You look at the painting and it says something like, "A still life of flowers--they almost look alive..." and then they attack you! In that case, it wouldn't be too hard to fight them, but there's still the problem of getting them to show up on the Veldt...

Red_Scarlet

Edit history:

Red_Scarlet: 2007-04-13 08:51:41 am

2007-04-13 08:47:43 am

"I like to watch"

If you want to try to get an early Death/Doom spell, "Bleary" is fightable the first time you go through the cave to South Figaro, so you could get it the first time on the Veldt in Sabin's scenario. I think all the Bleary rage does is either attack or cast Death/Doom.

With fewer encounters at that point of the game, that may be an ok option..I don't know how fast you get to Gau from the start of the game, but possibly with not a lot of encounters up to that point you could maybe bump into a Bleary on the way from Mobliz to the Crescent Cave or whatever it's called.

Zurreco

2007-04-13 09:55:41 am

Just call me the cynicism machine

Essentia: If you gave Gogo the relic that equips one weapon to both hands (Gauntlet?), would that speed the tactic enough.

Essentia

2007-04-13 10:21:51 am

Everything's better with Magitek

I think Gauntlet doubles the damage, but that's not going to help much when he's doing around 80 damage. Getting a Gauntlet could be a problem too. I won't be getting it from Banon, because it's quicker to get the Genji Glove. I can't remember if Gauntlet can be bought anywhere.

I'll do some testing with Gau in my second practice run, and see if anything might be feasible with him.

Red_Scarlet

2007-04-13 11:04:38 am

"I like to watch"

I don't remember it being buyable, and the trade that comes to mind at the colliseum wouldn't be something you'd want to do either, so all that comes to my head is grabbing the one in Umaro's cave when you grab the Moogle Charm.

Lucid Faia

2007-04-13 03:00:50 pm

Yeah, I said it.

There are three Gauntlets in the game, period. Banon has one of them, the other two are in chests in the WoR; in Umaro's Cave and Kefka's Tower.

DTaeKim

2007-04-13 03:09:22 pm

Since it sounds like you're avoiding levels, the Gigas Glove is your best option for physical damage.