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ShinerCCC
2011-12-11 10:32:20 pm
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
Find Alex Jackson and ask him? I dunno, it sounds like this Japanese version run is even shorter so you could just do practice runs.

Monsters are notorious for being weak in FFL1, but if you have a meat chart you can get good monsters that are much stronger than the local fare. But you're dealing with Creator, and nothing is stronger than him. 4 slime-type monsters could possibly pull it off because of their piercing damage that also heals them. Not sure if TOUCH works on Creator, it should because he's not undead. (or is he?)

3 uses of TORNADO should be enough. Use your pre-determined RNG to figure out which 3 (or 6?) fights are hardest to run away from and fight out and use them there. If there are only two stacks of monsters then you can hit them with elemental attacks.
Bobo the King
2011-12-20 11:05:58 am
My memory's a little hazy at this point, but I recall FatRatKnight and I were interested in STEALTH at one point and discovered it's broken.  You get no additional preemptive attacks and no fewer battles.  Of course, this was in the NA version.  If you'd like, I can search the TASVideos topic for our discussion or do some testing on the ROM.

Incidentally, here is the FFL RNG page:
http://tasvideos.org/GameResources/GBx/FinalFantasyLegend.html
If I checked this correctly (and I've been known to screw up), there's actually a 50.4% chance that you can run.  For whatever reason, 127 is included in the "can run" bin.
Poxnor
2012-05-03 02:09:22 am
Moo! Flap! Hug!
This is just a sneak peek at how broken FFL(J) v1.0 is:
I shaved over 40 seconds off that run before submitting to SDA.  Tempted to be a verifier? Smiley
Melodia
2012-05-03 12:10:08 pm
Um.....er.....buh?

What did I just watch?
Nitrodon
2012-05-04 04:33:45 pm
This is probably how you shaved over 40 seconds off that run, but I thought I'd mention it anyway just in case.

You can save 2 encounters by wasting 2 steps somewhere, or 3 encounters by wasting 9 or 12 steps.  This is because four of the tiles on 23F revisited have a 64/256 encounter rate instead 5/256, and the run you have on YouTube gets encounters on three of those tiles.  I even mapped out which encounter formations would change if you waste steps before that point.  Note that the numbers of various enemies in later encounters may change, but usually not the types of enemies (however, some encounters can have 0 of an enemy, and this number may change).

8+ steps wasted - battle 13: 1 BONEKING + 1 ARMOR + 1 GHAST -> 1-3 BONEKING
1+ steps wasted - battle 16: 1 SCYLLA + 0 ARMOR + 2 DEMOKING -> 1-2 BONEKING + 0-2 ARMOR
2-8 steps wasted - battle 19: 3 DRAGON 5 + 2 TITAN -> 2-4 SCYLLA + 0-2 MUSASI
9+ steps wasted - battle 18: 2 DRAGON 5 + 1 TITAN -> 2-4 SCYLLA + 0-2 MUSASI
10 steps wasted - battle 19: 2 VAMPIRE + 4 FIREMAN -> 0-2 SPHINX + 2-4 ROCK

Also, the four fiends (including the refights, but not overworld Su-Zaku) are vulnerable to stone.
Poxnor
2012-06-27 11:59:23 am
Moo! Flap! Hug!
I was pondering what sort of party you would want to start off with for a no-major-skips run of the Japanese 1.0 game.  You'd obviously want a Warrior in your party.  But, as for the others, you could go just with three overpowered monsters; or, a Beetle and two overpowered monsters.  You'd obviously want one of your overpowered monsters to have Telepor.

Here's how this could be accomplished (note that starting as a human/mutant is equivalent to starting as a Clipper, and more fun too, heh).

Warrior only (plus Salamand, Titan, and Rock; Titan has Telepor)
1. Starting state
Clipper (J, 0:0)

2. Recruit an Albatros (C, 0:0)
Albatros (C, 0:0), Clipper (J, 0:0)

3. Recruit an Albatros (C, 0:0)
Albatros (C, 0:0), Albatros (C, 0:0), Clipper (J, 0:0)

4. Recruit a Lizard (G, 0:0)
Albatros (C, 0:0), Albatros (C, 0:0), Lizard (G, 0:0), Clipper (J, 0:0)

5. Flees battle with a Goblin (A, 0:0) on the left
Albatros (C, 0:0), Albatros (C, 0:0), Lizard (G, 0:0), Clipper (J, 0:0)

6. Clipper (J, 0:0) eats stocked meat.
Albatros (C, 0:0), Albatros (C, 0:0), Lizard (G, 0:0), O-Bake (L, 1:0)

7. Lizard (G, 0:0) eats stocked meat.
Albatros (C, 0:0), Albatros (C, 0:0), O-Bake (L, 1:0), Drgonfly (K, 2:1)

8. O-Bake (L, 1:0) eats stocked meat.
Albatros (C, 0:0), Albatros (C, 0:0), Drgonfly (K, 2:1), Werewolf (H, 3:2)

9. Albatros (C, 0:0) eats stocked meat.
Albatros (C, 0:0), Drgonfly (K, 2:1), Werewolf (H, 3:2), Hornet (K, 4:3)

10. Albatros (C, 0:0) eats stocked meat.
Drgonfly (K, 2:1), Werewolf (H, 3:2), Hornet (K, 4:3), Eagle (C, 5:4)

11. Drgonfly (K, 2:1) eats stocked meat.
Werewolf (H, 3:2), Hornet (K, 4:3), Eagle (C, 5:4), Beetle (J, 6:5)

12. Flees battle with a Zombie (F, 0:0) on the left
Werewolf (H, 3:2), Hornet (K, 4:3), Eagle (C, 5:4), Beetle (J, 6:5)

13. Beetle (J, 6:5) eats stocked meat.
Werewolf (H, 3:2), Hornet (K, 4:3), Eagle (C, 5:4), Ogre (A, 7:6)

14. Hornet (K, 4:3) eats stocked meat.
Werewolf (H, 3:2), Eagle (C, 5:4), Ogre (A, 7:6), Buruburu (L, 8:7)

15. Flees battle with a Lizard (G, 0:0) on the left
Werewolf (H, 3:2), Eagle (C, 5:4), Ogre (A, 7:6), Buruburu (L, 8:7)

16. Buruburu (L, 8:7) eats stocked meat.
Werewolf (H, 3:2), Eagle (C, 5:4), Ogre (A, 7:6), Thunder (C, 9:8)

17. Ogre (A, 7:6) eats stocked meat.
Werewolf (H, 3:2), Eagle (C, 5:4), Thunder (C, 9:8), Dinosaur (G, A:9)

18. Werewolf (H, 3:2) eats stocked meat.
Eagle (C, 5:4), Thunder (C, 9:8), Dinosaur (G, A:9), Warrior (B, B:A)

19. Thunder (C, 9:8) eats stocked meat.
Eagle (C, 5:4), Dinosaur (G, A:9), Warrior (B, B:A), Salamand (G, C:B)

20. Eagle (C, 5:4) eats stocked meat.
Dinosaur (G, A:9), Warrior (B, B:A), Salamand (G, C:B), Titan (A, D:C)

21. Dinosaur (G, A:9) eats stocked meat.
Warrior (B, B:A), Salamand (G, C:B), Titan (A, D:C), Rock (C, D:C)


Beetle and Warrior (plus Baku and Pudding; Baku has Telepor):
1. Starting state
Clipper (J, 0:0)

2. Recruit a Lizard (G, 0:0)
Lizard (G, 0:0), Clipper (J, 0:0)

3. Recruit a Goblin (A, 0:0)
Goblin (A, 0:0), Lizard (G, 0:0), Clipper (J, 0:0)

4. Clipper (J, 0:0) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), Lizard (G, 0:0), O-Bake (L, 1:0)

5. Lizard (G, 0:0) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), O-Bake (L, 1:0), Drgonfly (K, 2:1)

6. O-Bake (L, 1:0) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), Drgonfly (K, 2:1), Werewolf (H, 3:2)

7. Recruit an Albatros (C, 0:0)
Goblin (A, 0:0), Albatros (C, 0:0), Drgonfly (K, 2:1), Werewolf (H, 3:2)

8. Drgonfly (K, 2:1) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), Albatros (C, 0:0), Clipper (J, 0:0), Werewolf (H, 3:2)

9. Werewolf (H, 3:2) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), Albatros (C, 0:0), Clipper (J, 0:0), Hornet (K, 4:3)

10. Albatros (C, 0:0) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), Clipper (J, 0:0), Hornet (K, 4:3), Eagle (C, 5:4)

11. Hornet (K, 4:3) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), Clipper (J, 0:0), Eagle (C, 5:4), Beetle (J, 6:5)

12. Eagle (C, 5:4) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), Clipper (J, 0:0), Beetle (J, 6:5), Triceras (D, 7:6)

13. Flees battle with a Goblin (A, 0:0) on the left
Goblin (A, 0:0), Clipper (J, 0:0), Beetle (J, 6:5), Triceras (D, 7:6)

14. Clipper (J, 0:0) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), O-Bake (L, 1:0), Beetle (J, 6:5), Triceras (D, 7:6)

15. Goblin (A, 0:0) eats stocked meat.
Slime (E, 1:0), O-Bake (L, 1:0), Beetle (J, 6:5), Triceras (D, 7:6)

16. Triceras (D, 7:6) eats stocked meat.
Slime (E, 1:0), O-Bake (L, 1:0), Beetle (J, 6:5), Mou-Jya (F, 8:7)

17. Flees battle with a Zombie (F, 0:0) on the left
Slime (E, 1:0), O-Bake (L, 1:0), Beetle (J, 6:5), Mou-Jya (F, 8:7)

18. Flees battle with a Lizard (G, 0:0) on the left
Slime (E, 1:0), O-Bake (L, 1:0), Beetle (J, 6:5), Mou-Jya (F, 8:7)

19. Mou-Jya (F, 8:7) eats stocked meat.
Slime (E, 1:0), O-Bake (L, 1:0), Beetle (J, 6:5), Thunder (C, 9:8)

20. O-Bake (L, 1:0) eats stocked meat.
Slime (E, 1:0), Beetle (J, 6:5), Thunder (C, 9:8), Giant (A, A:9)

21. Thunder (C, 9:8) eats stocked meat.
Slime (E, 1:0), Beetle (J, 6:5), Giant (A, A:9), Warrior (B, B:A)

22. Giant (A, A:9) eats stocked meat.
Slime (E, 1:0), Beetle (J, 6:5), Warrior (B, B:A), Cocatris (C, B:A)

23. Slime (E, 1:0) eats stocked meat.
Beetle (J, 6:5), Warrior (B, B:A), Cocatris (C, B:A), Baku (D, C:B)

24. Cocatris (C, B:A) eats stocked meat.
Beetle (J, 6:5), Warrior (B, B:A), Baku (D, C:B), Pudding (E, D:C)


Beetle and Warrior (plus Titan and Salamand; Titan has Telepor).  NB: this version takes one more stocked meat than the previous one that got a Baku and Pudding, so it's probably useless, but I'm including it for completeness in case the Titan's high Str comes in handy later (probably not an issue):
1. Starting state
Clipper (J, 0:0)

2. Recruit a Lizard (G, 0:0)
Lizard (G, 0:0), Clipper (J, 0:0)

3. Recruit a Goblin (A, 0:0)
Goblin (A, 0:0), Lizard (G, 0:0), Clipper (J, 0:0)

4. Clipper (J, 0:0) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), Lizard (G, 0:0), O-Bake (L, 1:0)

5. Lizard (G, 0:0) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), O-Bake (L, 1:0), Drgonfly (K, 2:1)

6. O-Bake (L, 1:0) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), Drgonfly (K, 2:1), Werewolf (H, 3:2)

7. Recruit an Albatros (C, 0:0)
Goblin (A, 0:0), Albatros (C, 0:0), Drgonfly (K, 2:1), Werewolf (H, 3:2)

8. Drgonfly (K, 2:1) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), Albatros (C, 0:0), Clipper (J, 0:0), Werewolf (H, 3:2)

9. Werewolf (H, 3:2) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), Albatros (C, 0:0), Clipper (J, 0:0), Hornet (K, 4:3)

10. Albatros (C, 0:0) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), Clipper (J, 0:0), Hornet (K, 4:3), Eagle (C, 5:4)

11. Clipper (J, 0:0) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), Hornet (K, 4:3), Eagle (C, 5:4), Beetle (J, 6:5)

12. Eagle (C, 5:4) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), Hornet (K, 4:3), Beetle (J, 6:5), Triceras (D, 7:6)

13. Flees battle with a Goblin (A, 0:0) on the left
Goblin (A, 0:0), Hornet (K, 4:3), Beetle (J, 6:5), Triceras (D, 7:6)

14. Hornet (K, 4:3) eats stocked meat.
Goblin (A, 0:0), Phantom (L, 2:1), Beetle (J, 6:5), Triceras (D, 7:6)

15. Goblin (A, 0:0) eats stocked meat.
Slime (E, 1:0), Phantom (L, 2:1), Beetle (J, 6:5), Triceras (D, 7:6)

16. Triceras (D, 7:6) eats stocked meat.
Slime (E, 1:0), Phantom (L, 2:1), Beetle (J, 6:5), Mou-Jya (F, 8:7)

17. Flees battle with a Zombie (F, 0:0) on the left
Slime (E, 1:0), Phantom (L, 2:1), Beetle (J, 6:5), Mou-Jya (F, 8:7)

18. Slime (E, 1:0) eats stocked meat.
P-Frog (G, 1:1), Phantom (L, 2:1), Beetle (J, 6:5), Mou-Jya (F, 8:7)

19. Mou-Jya (F, 8:7) eats stocked meat.
P-Frog (G, 1:1), Phantom (L, 2:1), Beetle (J, 6:5), Thunder (C, 9:8)

20. Phantom (L, 2:1) eats stocked meat.
P-Frog (G, 1:1), Beetle (J, 6:5), Thunder (C, 9:8), Giant (A, A:9)

21. P-Frog (G, 1:1) eats stocked meat.
Beetle (J, 6:5), Thunder (C, 9:8), Giant (A, A:9), Cocatris (C, B:A)

22. Flees battle with a Lizard (G, 0:0) on the left
Beetle (J, 6:5), Thunder (C, 9:8), Giant (A, A:9), Cocatris (C, B:A)

23. Giant (A, A:9) eats stocked meat.
Beetle (J, 6:5), Thunder (C, 9:8), Warrior (B, B:A), Cocatris (C, B:A)

24. Cocatris (C, B:A) eats stocked meat.
Beetle (J, 6:5), Thunder (C, 9:8), Warrior (B, B:A), Salamand (G, C:B)

25. Thunder (C, 9:8) eats stocked meat.
Beetle (J, 6:5), Warrior (B, B:A), Salamand (G, C:B), Titan (A, D:C)
Poxnor
2012-07-14 06:56:32 am
Moo! Flap! Hug!
Another random thought: you could get Stone from having a Spector early, and P-Blast (an attack-all magic attack) from having a Baku.  The Baku is weak to ice, but also provides your teleport.  The following combinations take more time to get (in terms of stocked meat consumption), but I have to imagine there'd be a payoff as you get to higher floors if you could dispatch entire groups with Stone and/or P-Blast.  Alternately, it may be possible to use one of the quicker stocked-meat openings and synthesize one of the following parties through stocked meat consumption later, e.g., in World 2.

Baku, Spector, Spector, Warrior (twice the stone):
Code:
1. Starting state
Clipper (J, 0:0)

2. Recruits a Goblin (A, 0:0)

3. Clipper (J, 0:0) eats stocked meat, becomes an O-Bake (L, 1:0)

4. Recruits a Skeleton (B, 0:0)

5. Goblin (A, 0:0) eats stocked meat, becomes an Albatros (C, 0:0)

6. O-Bake (L, 1:0) eats stocked meat, becomes an Oni (A, 1:1)

7. Cancel recruitment from a guild topped by a Clipper (J, 0:0)

8. Oni (A, 1:1) eats stocked meat, becomes a Drgonfly (K, 2:1)

9. Skeleton (B, 0:0) eats stocked meat, becomes a Werewolf (H, 3:2)

10. Cancel recruitment from a guild topped by a Clipper (J, 0:0)

11. Werewolf (H, 3:2) eats stocked meat, becomes a Hornet (K, 4:3)

12. Albatros (C, 0:0) eats stocked meat, becomes an Eagle (C, 5:4)

13. Hornet (K, 4:3) eats stocked meat, becomes a Beetle (J, 6:5)

14. Eagle (C, 5:4) eats stocked meat, becomes a Triceras (D, 7:6)

15. Recruits a Skeleton (B, 0:0)

16. Triceras (D, 7:6) eats stocked meat, becomes an Ogre (A, 7:6)

17. Beetle (J, 6:5) eats stocked meat, becomes a Buruburu (L, 8:7)

18. Ogre (A, 7:6) eats stocked meat, becomes a Tororo (E, 9:8)

19. Drgonfly (K, 2:1) eats stocked meat, becomes a Thunder (C, 9:8)

20. Skeleton (B, 0:0) eats stocked meat, becomes a Giant (A, A:9)

21. Thunder (C, 9:8) eats stocked meat, becomes a Warrior (B, B:A)

22. Giant (A, A:9) eats stocked meat, becomes a Cocatris (C, B:A)

23. Tororo (E, 9:8) eats stocked meat, becomes a Baku (D, C:B)

24. Cocatris (C, B:A) eats stocked meat, becomes a Pudding (E, D:C)

25. Buruburu (L, 8:7) eats stocked meat, becomes a Spector (L, D:C)

26. Flees battle with a Goblin (A, 0:0) on the left

27. Pudding (E, D:C) eats stocked meat, becomes a Rakshasa (H, C:B)

28. Flees battle with a Zombie (F, 0:0) on the left

29. Rakshasa (H, C:B) eats stocked meat, becomes a Spector (L, D:C)
Warrior (B, B:A), Baku (D, C:B), Spector (L, D:C), Spector (L, D:C)

Stocked meat:       21
Guild recruiting:   3
Guild cancellation: 2
Fleeing battle:     2


Baku, Baku, Spector, Warrior (twice the area attack):
Code:
1. Starting state
Clipper (J, 0:0)

2. Recruits a Goblin (A, 0:0)

3. Clipper (J, 0:0) eats stocked meat, becomes an O-Bake (L, 1:0)

4. Recruits a Skeleton (B, 0:0)

5. Goblin (A, 0:0) eats stocked meat, becomes an Albatros (C, 0:0)

6. O-Bake (L, 1:0) eats stocked meat, becomes an Oni (A, 1:1)

7. Cancel recruitment from a guild topped by a Clipper (J, 0:0)

8. Oni (A, 1:1) eats stocked meat, becomes a Drgonfly (K, 2:1)

9. Skeleton (B, 0:0) eats stocked meat, becomes a Werewolf (H, 3:2)

10. Cancel recruitment from a guild topped by a Clipper (J, 0:0)

11. Werewolf (H, 3:2) eats stocked meat, becomes a Hornet (K, 4:3)

12. Albatros (C, 0:0) eats stocked meat, becomes an Eagle (C, 5:4)

13. Hornet (K, 4:3) eats stocked meat, becomes a Beetle (J, 6:5)

14. Eagle (C, 5:4) eats stocked meat, becomes a Triceras (D, 7:6)

15. Recruits a Skeleton (B, 0:0)

16. Triceras (D, 7:6) eats stocked meat, becomes an Ogre (A, 7:6)

17. Beetle (J, 6:5) eats stocked meat, becomes a Buruburu (L, 8:7)

18. Ogre (A, 7:6) eats stocked meat, becomes a Tororo (E, 9:8)

19. Drgonfly (K, 2:1) eats stocked meat, becomes a Thunder (C, 9:8)

20. Skeleton (B, 0:0) eats stocked meat, becomes a Giant (A, A:9)

21. Thunder (C, 9:8) eats stocked meat, becomes a Warrior (B, B:A)

22. Giant (A, A:9) eats stocked meat, becomes a Cocatris (C, B:A)

23. Tororo (E, 9:8) eats stocked meat, becomes a Baku (D, C:B)

24. Cocatris (C, B:A) eats stocked meat, becomes a Pudding (E, D:C)

25. Flees battle with a Goblin (A, 0:0) on the left

26. Pudding (E, D:C) eats stocked meat, becomes a Rakshasa (H, C:B)

27. Buruburu (L, 8:7) eats stocked meat, becomes a Baku (D, C:B)

28. Flees battle with a Zombie (F, 0:0) on the left

29. Rakshasa (H, C:B) eats stocked meat, becomes a Spector (L, D:C)
Warrior (B, B:A), Baku (D, C:B), Baku (D, C:B), Spector (L, D:C)

Stocked meat:       21
Guild recruiting:   3
Guild cancellation: 2
Fleeing battle:     2
Deuceler
2016-08-07 11:54:39 pm
SPEEDruns not SAFEruns
Reviving a very old thread, but I've been working on this game for the upcoming SaGa Marathon. I decided to route it on SGB2 and that was an awful idea. Ordered a GBP and will be working on improving Poxnor's run.
Lone_Kilted_Ninja
2016-09-03 02:09:03 pm
Anything you can do I can do halfass
Best of luck!  Saw the start of this thread talking about RNG and was going to comment until I noticed I already had... a looooong time go >.<  Still, jumping to present day, if Nitrodon can confidently call out step counts which reliably change encounters, then I'd say the table theory holds water, or if not a table per se, then at least some decidedly non-random formula which returns consistent values as a function of consistent inputs.  If you have a more or less solid route that just needs a little RNG tweaking, or are trying to pin down RNG variance that doesn't seem to be input based, keep an eye on things like other NPC motion which may be pulling numbers off the fixed sequence even when you aren't making any inputs yourself.  Then again, smart code may automatically "tumble" its RNG every so often- e.g. even Vegas slot RNGs are technically a fixed sequence, but it's a veerrrrryyyyy loooooonnngg sequence of very big numbers being automatically advanced and re-seeded more times per second than a human has any chance of intentionally hitting.