Username:
B
I
U
S
"
url
img
#
code
sup
sub
font
size
color
smiley
embarassed
thumbsup
happy
Huh?
Angry
Roll Eyes
Undecided
Lips Sealed
Kiss
Cry
Grin
Wink
Tongue
Shocked
Cheesy
Smiley
Sad
12345 ->
--
--
List results:
Search options:
Use \ before commas in usernames
Edit history:
ShadowWraith: 2014-01-31 05:31:06 am
Dime: 2013-08-30 10:46:14 am
Dime: 2013-08-22 03:00:48 pm
Dime: 2013-08-22 03:00:07 pm
Dime: 2013-08-16 04:26:51 pm
Dime: 2013-07-30 02:55:55 pm
Dime: 2013-07-30 02:54:43 pm
Dime: 2013-07-30 02:29:45 pm
Dime: 2013-07-30 02:04:39 pm
Dime: 2013-07-24 11:17:12 am
Dime: 2013-07-24 11:06:25 am
Dime: 2013-07-24 11:04:42 am
Dime: 2013-07-24 11:01:56 am
Dime: 2013-07-24 10:54:35 am
Dime: 2013-07-24 10:46:54 am
Dime: 2013-07-24 10:42:06 am
Dime: 2013-07-24 10:24:32 am
Dime: 2013-07-24 10:10:01 am
Dime: 2013-07-24 09:59:43 am
Dime: 2013-07-24 09:47:49 am
Dime: 2013-07-24 09:46:23 am
Dime: 2013-07-16 10:49:14 am
Dime: 2013-07-12 08:39:23 am
Dime: 2013-07-12 08:26:59 am
Dime: 2013-07-12 08:18:55 am
Dime: 2013-07-11 10:17:22 am
Dime: 2013-07-11 10:11:59 am
Dime: 2013-07-11 10:09:48 am
Dime: 2013-07-11 10:07:06 am
Dime: 2013-07-11 10:02:54 am
Dime: 2013-07-11 10:01:47 am
Dime: 2013-07-11 09:04:17 am
Dime: 2013-07-10 08:35:12 pm
Dime: 2013-07-10 08:27:41 pm
Dime: 2013-07-10 08:27:04 pm
Dime: 2013-07-10 08:26:44 pm
Dime: 2013-07-10 08:24:05 pm
Dime: 2013-07-10 08:22:17 pm
Dime: 2013-07-10 08:20:39 pm
Dime: 2013-07-10 08:10:35 pm
Dime: 2013-07-10 08:04:57 pm
Dime: 2013-07-10 08:02:53 pm
Dime: 2013-07-10 04:51:20 pm
I couldn't decide whether I should produce a thread for this or not but after finally getting chocolate doom to stream properly I changed my mind.

Final doom: The Plutonia Experiment was released in 1996 by id software as one half of final doom with TNT each acting as 32 level megawads. Plutonia itself was made by the two Casali brothers who were actually part of team TNT at the time. It is an installment aimed SR40primarily for veterans of doom and doom 2 meaning that the difficulty spike in Plutonia is much sharper than doom 2 (Map 1 contains 5 revenants, 2 arch-viles and 4 mancubus). The maps were larger and more complex keeping in line with the improvements of computers since doom 2. If I recall, the game at release was widely criticized as it was essentially an expansion pack to doom 2 with the sole upgrade being a resolution increase to 640 x 480.

Alrighty, now to the important part or the actual running of the game. Since it utilizes the doom engine, all of the same tricks are available that can be seen in doom and doom 2 which include SR40, SR50, rocket jumps, arch-vile jumps, Wall running and key grabs.

SR40
-By holding forward and a strafing direction at the same time, doom guy can gain 28% speed over simply holding forward



SR50
-By holding forward + strafe direction + strafe on (alt) + Turn left/right at the same time, doom guy can gain 41% speed over simply holding forward but it comes at the cost of not being able to turn.



Rocket Jumps
-Similar to the arch-vile jump, a rocket jump provides momentum to the player through the splash damage. Many of these jumps tend to be tricky and require high health as a rocket



Key Grabs
-Considered as grabbing a key that is reached through terrain that is blocking doom guy such as a wall or a ledge. The speed required to grab the key behind whatever terrain is based on distance.



Archvile Jumps
-Archviles have an attack that works essentially like a channeling spell that will only hit doom guy if he is in line of sight at the end of the attack animation. The attack itself provides momentum to doom guy and also some height which can allow the player to make jumps or clear gaps that are otherwise impossible.



Wall-Running
-When running north along a north-south wall or east along an east-west wall at a high speed. The game will read the player at being in two places and effectively "slide" doom guy twice which doubles your speed. This requires a fairly specific angle as a bad angle will slow you down.



Trigger Skip
http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Linedef_type
-I'll link the wiki in this case rather than myself butchering the explanation. Most importantly three types of triggers are available using linedefs which include pushing on the linedef, walking over it or sometimes shooting it.

Suicide Exit
When doom guy dies, he is still capable of triggering linedefs. Death will also allow the player to slide under objects. The slide requires some sort of momentum which entails the use of an archvile, a rocket jump or very rarely combining them both as can be seen in the example below.



Glides
http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Glide



-This second video example is more typical of what you'll see for a glide. The IL runs often have perfect angles so it's more difficult to see what is going on.

Maps
CONGO

http://www.twitch.tv/kingdime/c/2627319
-When going towards the blue key, the entire process of opening the door, grabbing the blue key and exiting the same door can be done in a single cycle with proper SR40 running. You can actually see the door closing on me towards the end of the video. If it closes directly on doom guy it will just reopen automatically.

http://www.twitch.tv/kingdime/c/2627367
-Before the SR40 gap jump can be done, one mancubus must be taken out. It's preferable to use the chaingun as to put the mancubus in a stun lock. Also, it is advised to be on the left side of the door while attacking the mancubus so the chaingunners will help you by infighting. After the mancubus is taken out, a simple SR40 gap jump can be done straight towards the exit. This saves you from killing a second mancubus.


WELL OF SOULS

http://www.twitch.tv/kingdime/c/2627435
-The invisible bridge mechanic is well implemented in the third map aztec but I would say is badly done in this map. First of all, directly to the left of the blue mega-armor will be a console. If you aren't sure where the actual bridge is located you can shoot this with a weapon and several posts will come up showing where the bridge is located. I personally use the two rocket pickups at the far end of the bridge. By aligning myself slightly right of the right rocket, I should never fall off.

AZTEC

http://www.twitch.tv/kingdime/c/2627496
-The revenant bust looks scary at first but if you know a few things about the mechanics of a revenant it isn't as bad. First of all at this point you want to be literally touching the revenants as they spawn because 4 chaingunners will arise behind you on the pillars. Proximity to the revenants will ensure you don't get cleaved by the chaingunners. Secondly, a revenant is highly unlikely to use its rocket attack when doom guy is very close. (Rocket attack can do up to 80 damage while punches can only do damage in the mid 50's. Punches can be dodged by going backwards slightly where as a rocket is near impossible to dodge, this means use aggression to your advantage.

-If you are unlucky and unable to bypass the revenant after a single shotgun blast, be ready for a rocket to come your way. If a revenant is pushed into a pain state, it can "hold a rocket" meaning that it's highly likely that a revenant will use its rocket instead of punching even up close.

CAGED

http://www.twitch.tv/kingdime/c/2662851
-This map of the plutonia experiment is very tricky for a 4th map. I would honestly place this in the top 5 most difficult maps from purely a design perspective. Caged has one significant trick which is that the switch shown in the video can be hit from below. More importantly, the platform that you're on has a single revenant with 2 on the opposite platform. Keep in mind that you'll probably be around 100 health and 100 armor at this point and taking 3 revenant rockets can be fatal. When entering the teleport run forwards straight into the revenant while shooting him with the shotgun and immediately do a semi-circle around him as he hits his pain stance. This movement is specifically to avoid non-homing missile rockets from the 2 far revenants. Then in quick succession, take out the revenant, hit the switch, grab the radiation suit and hug the far wall while preparing to deal with the mancubi using rockets.

GHOST TOWN

Ghost town is one of the shorter maps in the IWAD but is very fast paced and contains a lot of action. After running through the starting area and bypassing the barons of hell, you will want to make a judgement call on your health on whether or not the megasphere should be grabbed before or after the blue key.

Unfortunately, there is one very RNG dependent part of this map which is the spider mastermind. If she does not flinch from a shotgun blast, there is a high probability you won’t be getting out alive. (A mastermind’s Vulcan cannon is equivalent to 4 chaingunners attacking you at once). Ensure when you’re going and leaving the blue key area that you go up opposite sides to pick up all 80 plasma cells. The positioning of the plasma cells are a bonus in that you are not in LoS of the mastermind.

Now it’s time to take out the plasma rifle and make a quick dash towards the exit by taking out any chaingunners along your path. A final nasty trap opens up at the end with 4 barons of hell and an archvile. Immediately back up, count to 2 seconds while equipping the rocket launcher and emerge to take out the archvile ASAP. If you’re too slow in pressing the switch afterwards, the barons will end your run. Barons are very dangerous in tight spots, even the plasma rifle might not save doom guy.


-Baron's Lair
-Caughtyard
-Realm
-Abattoire
-Onslaught
-Hunted

SPEED

http://www.twitch.tv/kingdime/c/2790878
-The Rocket jump in Map 12 speed is fairly easy to execute if the positioning is correct. The timing for the rocket is very lenient in this case. There are several setups that can be done but the preferred option at this point in time is shown in the video. Two pixels on the back Red Wall are very defined and brighter in hue than the rest. I use this visual cue to help me out in getting properly positioned. The Rocket launcher itself has a visible black concave on it, at the very top of the concave is an approximately straight line. At the very right side of the "Straight portion of the black concave is a little white line. I use this white line as a guide for the exact position. The position itself is approximately 1/2 of a linedef to the left of the well defined red pixels. After getting yourself setup, Use SR50 and simply time the rocket blast. Failed attempts are generally to do with shooting the rocket too late, and badly executed SR50.

-The Crypt
-Genesis
-The Twilight
-The Omen
-Compound
-Neurosphere
-NME
-The Death Domain
-Slayer
-Impossible Mission
-The Final Frontier
-The Temple Of Darkness
-Bunker
-Anti-Christ
-The Sewers
-Odyssey Of Noises
-The Gateway Of Hell

Again, I will be editing this thread heavily throughout the next few days to add in the individual map strategies and my progress but I wanted to begin a skeleton thread. Also, if you have any constructive criticism on thread design please feel free to add your input. Im still a little new to it.

TAS
-TAS runs of doom tend to be crazy fast considering how much you can do with perfect rocket jumps, and constant SR50.



The current WR for Plutonia is 32:39 by Kunkun eclipsing Drew"Stx-Vile" Devores run of 41:11 set in 2002.

2002: Drew "Stx-Vile" Devore, Time: 41:11


2013: Kunkun, Time: 32:39





Thread title:  
http://www.twitch.tv/kingdime/c/2559465

So this quick highlight is showing the first 5 maps of the megawad and some of my progress so far. You'll notice that some safer strats are implemented which I will gradually weed out over a long period of time. This includes the soulsphere that I pick up on map 3 "aztec" and the killing off of the 4 barons of hell on caged for

Atleast if I can manage an exit on caged, Ghost Town tends to be very consistent aside from the rare complete wall-off by barons.

All-in-all the first 7 or so maps are slowly improving with most deaths occurring on Caged. The next 5 maps are unfortunately very intimidating with realm, abattoire, onslaught, hunted and speed.




Edit history:
Traysandor: 2013-07-11 09:05:39 am
The original, since 2003.
You may also want to refer here as well for any tips and hints, and feedback when it comes to speed running any of the Doom games.  Either create a thread there with this too, or find one that already exists for Plutonia: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-speed-demos/
Edit history:
droogie: 2013-07-11 09:10:36 am
hello, world!
This is going to be good =)

Oasiz and I just did TNT and Plutonia coop the other day... was fun. Best of luck with this run, it's definitely going to be entertaining. Doom II SS on Nightmare is still probably my favorite run on SDA... SS doom runs are impressive.
I'm pretty familiar with the tricks but explaining them properly is a different deal altogether that is a little foreign to me at the moment.. This run is just tough to find good info on aside from stx-vile's run. Maybe I can find some lesser known plutonia runs out there for more sources.
Edit history:
droogie: 2013-07-11 09:25:57 am
hello, world!
I believe most of the large time skipping tricks involve some sort of luck and timing with the engine/frames? Might not be viable for an SS... not the wall grab ones but i've seen other ones like finishing that one level from Master Collection in like 4 seconds

correct me if i'm wrong..

Also, I don't have the resources handy, but I might find them idk... There were some animated gif's on the net with detailed explanations on how the BFG works and the best way to take advantage of it. I'm sure you already know, but if not it is definitely useful information... especially timing a large shot down a hallway and moving into position of where you want the damage to go by the time it hits the wall.
I think what you're referring to is certain trigger skips. An example would be in Ultimate Doom E1M5. Very rarely you can get a trigger skip on the bottom portion of the elevator where the two side rooms will actually not open up. In some cases this can be consistent.

This question is actually of importance though Droogie because if you watch Vile's run, on map 12 hunted he skips the trigger that makes the archviles teleport into the maze. But everything else can be done through timing.
Plutonia single segment? You're a brave, brave person.


Had a pretty decent run of maps 1-8 today. Realm (Map 8) is still a struggle as there are zero armor pickups so mistakes can often end up in getting chipped out later in the map. Figuring out how to get the elevator higher on caughtyard has massively increased the success rate of the SR50 gap jump. It's pretty much 100% success rate now unless I run full on into the baron of hell.
Learning to Stream
Not too shabby at all Dime. I enjoyed watching this and look forward to seeing more progress. This was definitely a nice trip down nostalgia lane.
Dime: Strafe50 requires four buttons to be pressed simultaneously, not three. For example (forward left): forward, strafe on, turn left, strafe left. Simply using 'strafe on' rather than seperate strafing keys offers no improvement (Strafe40).
Thanks for the mention Andy0. It's definitely faster but 4 buttons is really awkward. On the plus side that clears up the confusion on how SR50 works.
Edit history:
Dime: 2013-07-22 07:14:23 am
So this pretty much sums up how most of my runs go in plutonia. Very well and then suddenly........



Also, editing in an update on my progress. Maps 1-19 at the moment are pretty fleshed out. This below is just a category I made up as an excuse to practice the first half of the game. Go 2 It%!


Edit history:
kunkun: 2013-07-22 01:25:51 pm
If you want 3 button strafe50 you can bind turn left or right and strafe on for the same key, but obviously that'll only work in one direction.

I've been sorta working on a plutonia compet-n run but no idea if I'll ever get it done, so far I've done episode runs for level 1-10 and 11-20 (both of which could be hilariously frustrating at times) which you can get on dsda or compet-n site. Glides in maps 9 and especially 8 (and later 19 and possibly 21) can makes things a lot easier if you're willing to practice those. As far as I know that will require you to play with autorun off though since you need to walk to get the glides, but it lets you skip most of map8 which is rather nice. Other than that, on map01 exit room you can jump from the chaingunner platform to the mancubus one which requires some luck but thankfully it's the first level. The jump itself is easy with strafe50 but having the mancubuses cooperate isn't. On map12 you can jump to the cage with four imps near the exit and from there either try to run (really difficult) or rocket jump (very doable but can make next level nasty assuming you even have the health to survive the rj) to the exit. In map14 you can grab the yellow key fairly easily by running from the elevator you take in the beginning with strafe50, it does require somewhat strict positioning but I can get it more than half the time and especially if you play with savegames I'd say that trick is definitely worth it since then it's very fast to try again even if you fail.

I can try to explain any of these in great detail if anyone is interested, as a slight caveat some of these tricks might be easier when recording a demo since it reduces turning accuracy... then again some might be easier. Particularly in map13 there's one extra glide you could do which afaik is next to impossible while recording. I'm usually at #nightmare in quakenet but it might be better to keep any route discussion here in case anyone else wants to run this.
I appreciate the response kunkun, good to know that about the glides because I was attempting them with autorun on explaining why it wouldn't work at all. As for the speed rocket jump, i'll take another look at that one because getting the archvile to cooperate is frustrating in its own way.

Keep in mind that my initial route is not necessarily using the most optimal paths. (One example is that I kill the 4 barons of hell on Caged).
While i've played doom for many years, I have not actively spent time speedrunning doom so I am not exactly happy with my basic mechanics as of this moment. So while I am planning on slowly tacking on some of the stuff you mentioned the first priority is a 30pl exit. Also, I thought capslock determines whether autorun is on or not can't I just switch it when I need to do glides???
Capslock might be a chocolate doom thing, at least for me it doesn't work on 1.9f. Very useful if it works, holding down run for extended periods of time can feel pretty nasty after a few hours.

Caged is a load of pain and frustration so I can't blame you for doing that. Taking the teleporter after getting the key behind those 3 mancs is such a huge hail mary otherwise where sometimes you just die and can't do anything about it. A lot of the levels are really, hunted with the random amount of viles you wake up or speed where pretty much anything can seemingly go wrong. It's so easy to mess up and die on almost any level, and sometimes just die without even messing up. Annoying but makes finishing runs feel particularly rewarding, heh.
http://www.twitch.tv/kingdime/c/2653382

Here is a full run of final doom: The plutonia experiment in 1:02:11

Now it's time to really optimize, first things first not choking 3 times on death domain.
Edit history:
Dime: 2013-07-30 06:16:49 pm
Edited
Two videos for today, the first shows off plutonia done in 57:54. Had an extremely good start followed by some hiccups again in the maps 20-30 section. Im wondering if there is a better way to do death domain at the area where 4 barons teleport around, very difficult section. If you fire at all in the 5 barons section, the blue key area fills with about 10-12 revenants.

http://www.twitch.tv/kingdime/c/2679346

Also, second blooper video. WOW JUST WOW......

http://www.twitch.tv/kingdime/c/2682859
http://www.twitch.tv/kingdime/c/2682728

Plutonia in 44:17, a very clean run from start to finish aside from a handful of maps and 2-3 deaths. My stream decided to crash and reconnect 3 minutes in, so it's split into two videos.
I just posted map 21-30 run on doomworld, not sure if there's anything terribly useful in that though. Maybe the setup for hitting icon unless you already have something consistent.

Either doing a .bat file or using the windows run command could save you some typing between recording demos. You can also bind a key for quitting a demo. These aren't probably that useful for long runs like this but if you ever decide to try ILs those two things will be your bestest friends. Good luck with this, getting a full run with demo recording instead of sissy save/loading is pretty crazy Cheesy I think only vile has done a 30pl speedrun and per0xyd did a full max movie.. and that's it. This isn't the most competitive of categories, probably because it's stupidly difficul.
Edit history:
Dime: 2013-08-08 10:36:23 am
Now just wait a second Kunkun. Did you just say a button for quitting a demo is your best friend. I had a run around 16:40 to speed yesterday, was just preparing to do the rocket jump and the demo recorded itself after pressing Q..... So i've been quitting videos on accident when I would use SR50 on my left side (Left SR50 for me is much weaker than right side). So after about an hour of searching, I found the bind in chocolate doom and changed that damn button to F6.

I don't plan on doing the map 25 rj right now, it's too late in the run and post-tombstone which I feel is the hardest map in the entire run.
As far as the glides, i'm still struggling with them unfortunately. Glides are the most frustrating trick for me in doom aside from the suburbs glide of course.
When recording shorter demos, the ability to quit and start recording again becomes pretty handy. I think the shortest compet-n record is 4 seconds and outside of that there's maps like scythe 07 which is ONE second. Of course pressing end demo by accident is undesirable Smiley With vanilla .exes you can't rebind end demo key by the way so it will always be q, I actually had to change my keybinds because of that.

For guided glides (like the suburbs one you talked about) it's probably easiest to use mouse strafing with run off. They're not terribly difficult assuming they're in the right direction.

I just started working on 30pl as well, got something reasonable enough on ep3 for compet-n and now I'm wondering why I'm so rusty at maps 1-7 (probably because I haven't practised them in a while). I will try to do all the stupid tricks though, so it might take months before I get a single exit. If I ever even get one, heh.
K The Temple of Darkness RJ is more doable than I thought after using a ruler to line myself up :D, but I feel like the map 21 glide is asking to die. The 23 glide can def save a few seconds and is easier imo than 21 glide. So if I can ever figure out how to do the realm glide, I feel like i've got a pretty solid route. Now it just has to be done in one attempt.....
If you get the invisibility 23 glide feels stupidly easy for some reason, I often get damage boosted through the gap before even getting the correct angle. For me that glide isn't even about speed, it's about safety, it feels much more consistent than trying your luck with the two archviles, who on a bad day will just destroy you regardless of anything. Without the invisibility it can be nasty or you have to clear the room before trying. Then again I can't see why anyone would skip the invis on a 30pl run to save like max 10 seconds while increasing you chances of dying by more than is comfortable. 25 rj is somewhere between 30-70 seconds of saved time if you get it first try with a high chance of ending the run if you mess up so yeah. Doing that in a run will put some hair on your chest. For me this whole thing is about trying to recreate something like what Looper did in his 30uv run so I try to cram every trick ever there for a truly remarkable demo... I'm not sure if trying some of the riskier stuff I do in ep runs is the greatest idea. Unless you truly hate yourself, which is the mark of a great doom player :p in which case, welcome aboard, let's make this thing happen :p