Final Fantasy VIII

2005-10-10 07:42:28 pm

King of hearts

I'm just saying that anyone can go in and use The End or Duel against Omega. It's too easy and makes the whole run not worth watching at all. It will make the whole thing pure crap. Not using them makes the fight an extreme challenge and isn't based on luck.

It's like the Metal Gear Solid Speed Runs where people do challenges like 100% dog tags, get a certain rank, or do it in a single segment. Going through in one segment takes a whole lot longer than if you used saves, but it's much more challenging and impressive.

Mkt2015

2005-10-10 07:56:21 pm

MGS for PS1 forever.

I admire your logic, but it's wrong. FF VIII doesn't have ranks to achieve so the overall goal is only speed. Metal Gear Solid single-segment is very impressive, but the only rpgs you would do in a single-segment are those that could be beaten in less than 4 hours. I expect rpgs to be in many many segments.

And really, having another 5-10 minutes of stuff to make the run more interesting sounds kind of lame. So what if The End is cheap. It is a tactic to get past areas a lot quicker, and quicker is always better. If were going for interesting and entertaining over speed than a person should have all of the cutscenes of Max Payne recorded as well as many other games, but interesting and entertaining is not our first goal.

darkwasabi

Edit history:

darkwasabi: 2005-10-10 08:04:47 pm

2005-10-10 08:04:22 pm

King of hearts

If that's the case then the run isn't worth doing. I guess this topic is dead now. Unless someone else decides to waste their time on a pointless run.

marshmallow

2005-10-10 08:33:22 pm

Jack of all Trades

There's always archive.org.

darkwasabi

2005-10-10 08:50:21 pm

King of hearts

Quote:

There's always archive.org.

I've asked this before but... I really don't know the whole process of doing this and I'll need someone to tell me or give me a link to a place that tells me what I would have to do to get it there.

CannibalK9

2005-10-10 09:59:18 pm

give me your eyes!!!

Come on Mkt don't drag a good man down. There are many people who want to see it and I would watch with or without the Omega Battle but I would consider it an amazing achievment.
Speed-runners shouldn't have that much pressure put on them when they're doing it to entertain, even if it isn't as fast as it could be.

Zen

2005-10-10 11:35:17 pm

Forward standard-by-ten .

I think Radix maintains a pretty strict policy of this being speed runs and not just novelty runs.

Lag.Com

2005-10-11 12:15:47 am

sda loyalist

Indeed, Zen is correct. Again, this kind of 'run' would be appreciated on other sites (such as Video Game Ownage; I just posted a link to it elsewhere, so I won't do another), but not here.

Radix

2005-10-11 01:36:40 am

I'm addicted to games

Quote:

It also sounds like this way sacrifices only a small amount of speed for a huge boost in entertainment. Whats the point in creating a slightly faster video, if a large amount of people are going to turn it off half way through?

This site is not an entertainment site.
It's a speed run site.
You don't make fast speed runs by making things slower for entertainment.
Making something entertaining by going faster is just a side effect.

darkwasabi

2005-10-11 04:02:28 am

King of hearts

Ok, I understand already. I just forgot I could do this for another site and I was pissed off that this would be a waste.

I would need someone to transfer from VHS to computer. Could Nate do it and send it to archive.org or someplace else? I see him doing a lot of the VHS to Divx encoding on this site. Or does he only do that for this site?

Radix

2005-10-11 04:55:40 am

I'm addicted to games

Why would he spend 10 hours capturing something that isn't for the site?

Kyrsimys

2005-10-11 04:10:17 pm

So if slow equals unentertaining, why are there 4 Mario 64 vids up and not just 1? Or why are there hard mode and low% runs of Metroid Prime up?

I see hard mode runs as good entertainment because they're depicting great skill in the game, just like beating Omega at extremely low levels without cheap tactics that ruin the challenge.

Mkt2015

Edit history:

Mkt2015: 2005-10-11 05:44:57 pm

2005-10-11 05:44:22 pm

MGS for PS1 forever.

Quote:

So if slow equals unentertaining, why are there 4 Mario 64 vids up and not just 1? Or why are there hard mode and low% runs of Metroid Prime up?

Um, do you even know what the differences are for the 4 different Mario 64 vids? Even though you seem to be trying to argue you something and not doing it that well I might add, I'll explain a little something. The amounts of runs for a game is determined by what can be accomplished in the game and how many people love the game enough to try and do different things. A person could speedrun FF VIII normally as fast as he/she could and then do a low level run or a normal + omega run. The Super Mario 64 vids: 1) only 16 stars +glitches; 2) 70 stars; 3) 120 stars or 100%; 4) What the hell is the fourth one?

Quote:

I see hard mode runs as good entertainment because they're depicting great skill in the game, just like beating Omega at extremely low levels without cheap tactics that ruin the challenge.

For starters, there are no "cheap" tactics. "Cheap" refers to the idea that the opponent has an unfair advantage but everything in the game was obviously intended...so anything and everything is fair, not cheap. Wouldn't beating Omega at low levels be challenge enough?

[quote]So if slow equals unentertaining, why are there 4 Mario 64 vids up and not just 1? Or why are there hard mode and low% runs of Metroid Prime up?[/quote]

Um, do you even know what the differences are for the 4 different Mario 64 vids? Even though you seem to be trying to argue you something and not doing it that well I might add, I'll explain a little something. The amounts of runs for a game is determined by what can be accomplished in the game and how many people love the game enough to try and do different things. A person could speedrun FF VIII normally as fast as he/she could and then do a low level run or a normal + omega run. The Super Mario 64 vids: 1) only 16 stars +glitches; 2) 70 stars; 3) 120 stars or 100%; 4) What the hell is the fourth one?
 
[quote]I see hard mode runs as good entertainment because they're depicting great skill in the game, just like beating Omega at extremely low levels without cheap tactics that ruin the challenge.[/quote]

For starters, there are no "cheap" tactics. "Cheap" refers to the idea that the opponent has an unfair advantage but everything in the game was obviously intended...so anything and everything is fair, not cheap. Wouldn't beating Omega at low levels be challenge enough?

Kyrsimys

2005-10-11 08:27:31 pm

Quote:

Um, do you even know what the differences are for the 4 different Mario 64 vids? Even though you seem to be trying to argue you something and not doing it that well I might add, I'll explain a little something. The amounts of runs for a game is determined by what can be accomplished in the game and how many people love the game enough to try and do different things.

I agree with you, which is why I would like to see darkwasabi's future run published on SDA. I'm not against multiple runs of one game, I'm just wondering why FF8 isn't getting the same treatment as other games. I admit that "100% run" or "minimalistic run" is a lot simpler than "beating omega without the end/duel" but let's face it, almost all of the different run criteria are pretty arbitrary.

Quote:

4) What the hell is the fourth one?

It's a 16-star PAL run.

Quote:

For starters, there are no "cheap" tactics. "Cheap" refers to the idea that the opponent has an unfair advantage but everything in the game was obviously intended...so anything and everything is fair, not cheap. Wouldn't beating Omega at low levels be challenge enough?

I would consider opening the lid of the PS and hitting a button without danger of dying cheap. Or plain old restarting and trying as many times as is needed to get The End at the beginning of the fight. I wouldn't consider duel THAT cheap since it still requires some reflexes to pull off, but I would still like to see how he does it without it.

[quote]

Um, do you even know what the differences are for the 4 different Mario 64 vids? Even though you seem to be trying to argue you something and not doing it that well I might add, I'll explain a little something. The amounts of runs for a game is determined by what can be accomplished in the game and how many people love the game enough to try and do different things. [/quote]
I agree with you, which is why I would like to see darkwasabi's future run published on SDA. I'm not against multiple runs of one game, I'm just wondering why FF8 isn't getting the same treatment as other games. I admit that "100% run" or "minimalistic run" is a lot simpler than "beating omega without the end/duel" but let's face it, almost all of the different run criteria are pretty arbitrary.

[quote]
4) What the hell is the fourth one?[/quote]
It's a 16-star PAL run.

[quote]For starters, there are no "cheap" tactics. "Cheap" refers to the idea that the opponent has an unfair advantage but everything in the game was obviously intended...so anything and everything is fair, not cheap. Wouldn't beating Omega at low levels be challenge enough?[/quote]
I would consider opening the lid of the PS and hitting a button without danger of dying cheap. Or plain old restarting and trying as many times as is needed to get The End at the beginning of the fight. I wouldn't consider duel THAT cheap since it still requires some reflexes to pull off, but I would still like to see how he does it without it.

Mkt2015

2005-10-11 08:49:28 pm

MGS for PS1 forever.

It's not getting the same treatment as other games because 1) It's an rpg (rpgs take a lot longer to do and require more planning than playing) and 2) It's not the most popular FF game...besides...there is no way it could be beaten in under 7 hours...but I'm sure Radix could make an exception.

My only thing was that it is stupid to put an extra few minutes into an already EPIC run just to make it more entertaining.

Paused

2005-10-11 09:18:40 pm

When you say that Duel and "The End" will not be used, is that taking into acount the whole game or just the final Omega fight?

I thought you ment the whole game, but now that Im seeing comments that suggest otherwise. If you are using them all the way through, then, I agree, I see no reason not to use them for the last few minutes.

darkwasabi

Edit history:

darkwasabi: 2005-10-11 11:25:14 pm

2005-10-11 11:23:08 pm

King of hearts

Quote:

Why would he spend 10 hours capturing something that isn't for the site?

I was asking is there anyone that could. I was just wondering if Nate just helps out with this site and doesn't work for it, since I see peoples' thanks. I figure, well if it's his job, why do they thank him?

Quote:

Wouldn't beating Omega at low levels be challenge enough?

Not if you use The End. The End is a move that is purely based on luck. It kills any and all enemies including bosses. You just have to keep resetting until you get it. It is available anytime you have Selphie. Duel is a move that has the potential to beat any boss in one turn. Once you see the trick of using punch rush and booya, everything can be beaten in one or two turns. Of cource, you also have to rely on luck for this because you need a high amount of time to be able to kill Omega with a million HP before he slaughters you. Basically, anyone can do either of these. (just saying this for anyone who didn't play FF8 )

There would be no reason to specify it as an Omega Run if I'm just going to use The End or Duel. It would be worthless.

I'm not arguing, I'm just stating my reasons.

I already understand that this run is not fit for this site and all I want is some help to maybe get it on another site. That is all. If I can't get any help, obviously no run will be done.

Quote:

When you say that Duel and "The End" will not be used, is that taking into acount the whole game or just the final Omega fight?

I thought you ment the whole game, but now that Im seeing comments that suggest otherwise. If you are using them all the way through, then, I agree, I see no reason not to use them for the last few minutes.

The whole game. Basically this run would have 3 rules: No The End, Duel, or Hero/Holy Wars.

[quote]Why would he spend 10 hours capturing something that isn't for the site?[/quote]

I was asking is there anyone that could.  I was just wondering if Nate just helps out with this site and doesn't work for it, since I see peoples' thanks.  I figure, well if it's his job, why do they thank him?

[quote]
 Wouldn't beating Omega at low levels be challenge enough?[/quote]

Not if you use The End.  The End is a move that is purely based on luck.  It kills any and all enemies including bosses.  You just have to keep resetting until you get it.  It is available anytime you have Selphie.  Duel is a move that has the potential to beat any boss in one turn.  Once you see the trick of using punch rush and booya, everything can be beaten in one or two turns.  Of cource, you also have to rely on luck for this because you need a high amount of time to be able to kill Omega with a million HP before he slaughters you.  Basically, anyone can do either of these.  (just saying this for anyone who didn't play FF8 )

There would be no reason to specify it as an Omega Run if I'm just going to use The End or Duel.  It would be worthless.

I'm not arguing, I'm just stating my reasons.

[b]I already understand that this run is not fit for this site and all I want is some help to maybe get it on another site.  That is all.  If I can't get any help, obviously no run will be done.[/b]

[quote]When you say that Duel and "The End" will not be used, is that taking into acount the whole game or just the final Omega fight?

I thought you ment the whole game, but now that Im seeing comments that suggest otherwise.  If you are using them all the way through, then, I agree, I see no reason not to use them for the last few minutes.[/quote]

The whole game.  Basically this run would have 3 rules:  No The End, Duel, or Hero/Holy Wars.

StrangenessDSS

2005-10-11 11:49:46 pm

Sleeping Terror

...you don't thank people for doing nice things if it's their job?

darkwasabi

2005-10-12 12:30:14 am

King of hearts

It seemed like he was there just as a helping hand. I would of course, but the way it was done looked as if he just helps people out.

Psychochild

2005-10-12 12:30:18 am

Well, shit, even if he did get paid, I'd thank him for saving me over 16 hours encoding my last run, saving me the cash of having to spend on a TV capture card, and doing a damn fine job (Not to mention taking care of all the little things)...

But I digress. Why should he have to encode a run for something that isn't going up onto the site? He voulunteers his time and money into this. I recall him saying that if he isn't going to be doing it for the site, he'd want cash to do so...

darkwasabi

Edit history:

darkwasabi: 2005-10-12 02:19:18 am

2005-10-12 02:16:59 am

King of hearts

I would thank him of course if he helped me out too. It's just the way it was, namely the way his name is a link to another site. As though he wasn't just apart of this site, but he helps out. I can understand why he wouldn't do stuff that's not for this site. I've done my share of encoding for friends because they don't have computers (for anime). And I just liked doing it as a favor since I had it and they didn't, it became a real pain after a while...

I wanted to know if he only did it for this site, or just for the sake of any speedrun site. I just really want someone to help me with encoding it, since I don't have the means to. It would be greatly appreciated, I was really looking forward to finally starting the run. Someone, anyone, please.

Kyrsimys

2005-10-12 09:48:44 am

Quote:

My only thing was that it is stupid to put an extra few minutes into an already EPIC run just to make it more entertaining.

But what if beating Omega(and beating the game after it) is the whole purpose of the run, just like getting all the items and then completing the game in a 100% run? At least to me, speedruns are tests of skill, and in FF8 the ultimate test would be beating Omega at low levels without using the already mentioned easy strategies.

I'm not saying we should just make up more arbitrary goals for every game, I just think FF8 should be considered as an exception, seeing how Omega is insanely more difficult and interesting than the final boss.

Leon

2005-10-12 01:44:42 pm

BOOM!!!!!

Quote:

2) It's not the most popular FF game

thats a shame, because it my FAV

darkwasabi

2005-10-15 08:03:38 pm

King of hearts

I will soon start doing the run again and this time it will be recorded. I realized there were a couple of things I could have done to make my current run slightly faster, and better prepared for Omega.

If I can't get anyone to encode this then that's too bad. I was really looking forward to it. But I can't, and don't want to, force anyone to do anything they don't want to do.

Marvin Apolo

2005-10-16 08:02:47 am

Please do. I'm looking forward to seeing this.