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__sdfg: 2008-08-24 10:02:24 am
2008-08-22 12:09:33 pm
D:
...aaaand more stuff.


Segment 26 (Dance Before the Sphinx)
Summary:
  • The first time I went through this segment, ZSNES glitched and my input got out of sync with the game.  I left my computer to render the segment and came back to find Ness bashing his head into a wall in the pyramid, repeatedly unequipping and re-equipping his Big league bat. There are couple points of discontinuity in this segment where I stopped and restarted the recording to avoid a similar occurrence.  I have not factored the time gained by those jumps into the reported time since I lost some time to a third glitch near the end of the segment.
  • Walk down to the pyramid, avoiding UFOs along the way.
  • Open the doors.  Cure Poo's sunstroke.
  • Telecrash into the pyramid (thank you, Halamantariel and Nitrodon).
  • Give the Franklin badge to Paula so she doesn't die in here (highly recommended).
  • Fight Arachnid!!!, Guardian Hieroglyph (get Pharaoh's Curse), Lethal Asp Hieroglyph, Lethal Asp Hieroglyph, Arachnid!!!/Guardian Hieroglyph (use BBR), Guardian Hieroglyph, Lethal Asp Hieroglyph/Petrified Royal Guard (use BBR), Lethal Asp Hieroglyph.
  • ZSNES glitch point #1.
  • Fight the Guardian General.  Use two BBRs while everyone else defends.
  • ZSNES glitch point #2.
  • Fight Lethal Asp Hieroglyph/Petrified Royal Guard (green/run).
  • Get the Rain pendant, trigger the floor panel, and get out of the room before one of the other enemies notices.   Equip the Rain pendant on Paula.
  • Fight Petrified Royal Guard/Lethal Asp Hieroglyph (red, use BBR), Lethal Asp Hieroglyph.
  • Drop through the hole and grab the Hawk eye.
  • On an unrelated note, get rid of that Stag beetle.
  • Fight Guardian Hieroglyph (use BBR).
  • Grab the Diamond band from the casket.  Equip it on Paula.
  • Fight Guardian Hieroglyph (use BBR).
  • Use that Skip sandwich DX in a frantic attempt to minimize encounters.  Fight a Guardian Hieroglyph (use BBR) and Lethal Asp Hieroglyph anyway.  I may have been able to bypass the second one.  I didn't expect my sandwich to still be active.
  • Escape the pyramid.  Lose Poo.
  • Fight Beautiful UFO/High-class UFO/Marauder Octobot right out of the gate.  Use another BBR.  Get a Bottle of water.
  • Talk to the noble warrior.  Get the Key to the tower.
  • Talk to the shop guy.  Sell the Bread roll, Ness's Bottle of water, the Pharaoh's Curse, and Paula's Platinum band.  Buy a French fry pan, a Crusher beam, and 4 Multi bottle rockets (which was all I could afford).
  • Walk over toward Dungeon Man.  On the way there, fight a Marauder Octobot.
  • ZSNES glitch #3 (which was how the menu got opened).
  • Enter Dungeon Man.  Use the Good Night Bench, which didn't recover Paula's Sunstroke.  Take care of that, then save.

Notes:
  • This segment was a nightmare.  ZSNES glitching really didn't help.  I probably could have tried for fewer encounters inside, but I honestly don't think there's much you can do about it.
  • I skipped the Master Criminal Worm thing.  Getting a barely-tolerable pyramid run required enough restarts for me.
  • I recommend having Paula use Freeze Beta whenever possible rather than Freeze Gamma since she doesn't have a lot of PP at this stage of the game.
    • I/We should probably consider using one of the Brain food lunches on her to allow for better freezing.  This is a very slow segment right now and it'd be good to speed it up.  The only other place where I considered using PP recovery items was just before Giygas.  It may be possible to pick some more stuff up before then.  I guess another idea would be to use more BBRs.
  • The Bag of Dragonite here is not even close to being worth the fighting involved.  Don't get it.
  • In the future, it might be good to telecrash across the southern Scaraba desert.  It would make it easier to dodge enemies.
  • I got Paula the French fry pan because it's the strongest fry pan that's right along my route.  I did have her do some bashing as the game went on.  It may not be strictly necessary, though.
  • I left a note to myself saying not to buy the Crusher beam.  The Death ray is much better and there aren't that many encounters between here and Tenda village.

Run time:  17:11.
Total video time:  3:34:49.
Est. total run time:  3:27:37.
Inventory changes:
  • Ness:  -Franklin badge, +Hawk eye, -Skip sandwich DX.
  • Paula:  +Franklin badge, +Rain pendant, -Stag beetle, +Diamond band, -Bread roll, -Platinum band, +French fry pan.
  • Jeff:  -Big bottle rocket x9, +Key to the tower, -Hyper beam, +Crusher beam, +Multi bottle rocket x4.
  • Poo:  (none)

Status:
  • $1472 on hand, $14860 in ATM.
  • Ness (39):  ATM card, Sound Stone, Big league bat (equipped), Coin of defense (equipped), Night pendant (equipped), Receiver phone, Pencil eraser, Platinum band (equipped), Bag of Dragonite, Brain food lunch, Hieroglyph copy, Hawk eye.
  • Paula (36):  Diamond band (equipped), Coin of Defense (equipped), Rain pendant (equipped), French fry pan (equipped), Cup of Lifenoodles, Jar of Fly Honey, PSI caramel, Backstage pass, Bicycle, Exit mouse, Bad key machine, Pak of bubble gum, Franklin badge.
  • Jeff (36):  Mr. Saturn coin (equipped), Crusher beam (equipped), Platinum band (equipped), Crystal charm (equipped), Neutralizer, Key to the tower, Multi bottle rocket, Multi bottle rocket, Multi bottle rocket, Multi bottle rocket.
  • Poo (32):  Bottle of water, Brain food lunch.



Segment 27 (Dungeon Man)
Summary:
  • Walk up to the top, encounter-free.  Talk to Brick Road's face.  Leave.
  • Walk down toward the tries.  Fight Marauder Octobot, Marauder Octobot (green/run).
  • Lose Dungeon Man.  Talk to the noble warrior to get the idea about the submarine.
  • Enter Dungeon Man again.  On the way back up, fight Mystical Record.
  • Skip talking to Brick Road since it doesn't do anything other than heal you.  Take a wide arc around the corner near his face because ZSNES glitched there on one of my other recordings.
  • Drop down to the first floor.  Put the Talisman ribbon on Paula.
  • Revitalize just because I can (maybe unnecessary, but at least it's quick).
  • Take the submarine out.
  • Save in Deep Darkness.

Run time:  6:46.
Total video time:  3:41:35.
Est. total run time:  3:34:11.
Inventory changes:
  • Ness:  (none)
  • Paula:  +Talisman ribbon.
  • Jeff:  (none)
  • Poo:  (none)

Status:
  • $1472 on hand, $15669 in ATM.
  • Ness (39):  ATM card, Sound Stone, Big league bat (equipped), Coin of defense (equipped), Night pendant (equipped), Receiver phone, Pencil eraser, Platinum band (equipped), Bag of Dragonite, Brain food lunch, Hieroglyph copy, Hawk eye.
  • Paula (36):  Diamond band (equipped), Talisman ribbon (equipped), Rain pendant (equipped), French fry pan (equipped), Coin of Defense, Cup of Lifenoodles, Jar of Fly Honey, PSI caramel, Backstage pass, Bicycle, Exit mouse, Bad key machine, Pak of bubble gum, Franklin badge.
  • Jeff (36):  Mr. Saturn coin (equipped), Crusher beam (equipped), Platinum band (equipped), Crystal charm (equipped), Neutralizer, Key to the tower, Multi bottle rocket, Multi bottle rocket, Multi bottle rocket, Multi bottle rocket.
  • Poo (32):  Bottle of water, Brain food lunch.



Segment 28 (Drown to Death in Puke!)
Summary:
  • Telecrash through Deep Darkness.  Avoid all encounters.  Use the Hawk eye when necessary.
  • Give Jeff the Souvenir coin since Paula's Talisman ribbon is good enough for now.
  • Fight Master Barf.  Win with a single Multi bottle rocket.  Poo joins you.  Get the Casey bat.
  • Telecrash through the rest of the swamp.
  • Walk into Tenda Village.  Give Jeff the Death ray and save.

Notes:
  • I did a poor job of telecrashing.  I don't think we should expect a TAS-like run, but it should be possible to shave a couple more minutes off the time by not running into things every couple feet.
  • There wasn't any reason for segmenting where I did other than to give myself a breather.  In the future, this segment could be combined with the next one.  I think I may keep them separate, though, just so I don't have to sit through the Venus show every time I improve my Deep Darkness time a little.

Run time:  4:52.
Total video time:  3:46:27.
Est. total run time:  3:39:03.
Inventory changes:
  • Ness:  -Hawk eye, +Casey bat.
  • Paula:  (none)
  • Jeff:  +Souvenir coin, +Death ray, -Multi bottle rocket.
  • Poo:  (none)

Status:
  • $1472 on hand, $19205 in ATM.
  • Ness (40):  ATM card, Sound Stone, Big league bat (equipped), Coin of defense (equipped), Night pendant (equipped), Receiver phone, Pencil eraser, Platinum band (equipped), Bag of Dragonite, Brain food lunch, Hieroglyph copy, Casey bat.
  • Paula (37):  Diamond band (equipped), Talisman ribbon (equipped), Rain pendant (equipped), French fry pan (equipped), Coin of Defense, Cup of Lifenoodles, Jar of Fly Honey, PSI caramel, Backstage pass, Bicycle, Exit mouse, Bad key machine, Pak of bubble gum, Franklin badge.
  • Jeff (37):  Souvenir coin (equipped), Death ray (equipped), Platinum band (equipped), Crystal charm (equipped), Neutralizer, Key to the tower, Mr. Saturn coin, Crusher beam, Multi bottle rocket, Multi bottle rocket, Multi bottle rocket.
  • Poo (34):  Bottle of water, Brain food lunch.



Segment 28 1/2 (Banana Phone)
Summary:
  • Leave Tenda Village.  Take a couple phone calls.
  • Teleport to Fourside.  I'm going to take care of some unfinished business before I move on.
  • Go into the museum and talk to Mr. Spoon.
  • The TAS taught me that I don't need to answer the phone in Summers.
  • Watch the Venus show at the Topolla.
  • Talk to Venus and get the Signed banana.
  • Save on the department store phone.

Run time:  5:56.
Total video time:  3:52:23.
Est. total run time:  3:44:47.
Inventory changes:
  • Ness:  +Signed banana.
  • Paula:  (none)
  • Jeff:  (none)
  • Poo:  (none)

Status:
  • $1421 on hand, $19205 in ATM.
  • Ness (40):  ATM card, Sound Stone, Big league bat (equipped), Coin of defense (equipped), Night pendant (equipped), Receiver phone, Pencil eraser, Platinum band (equipped), Bag of Dragonite, Brain food lunch, Hieroglyph copy, Casey bat, Signed banana.
  • Paula (37):  Diamond band (equipped), Talisman ribbon (equipped), Rain pendant (equipped), French fry pan (equipped), Coin of Defense, Cup of Lifenoodles, Jar of Fly Honey, PSI caramel, Backstage pass, Bicycle, Exit mouse, Bad key machine, Pak of bubble gum, Franklin badge.
  • Jeff (37):  Souvenir coin (equipped), Death ray (equipped), Platinum band (equipped), Crystal charm (equipped), Neutralizer, Key to the tower, Mr. Saturn coin, Crusher beam, Multi bottle rocket, Multi bottle rocket, Multi bottle rocket.
  • Poo (34):  Bottle of water, Brain food lunch.



Segment 29 (Magnet Hill)
Summary:
  • Walk back over to the museum.
  • Give the banana to Mr. Spoon.  Enter the sewer.
  • Fight Filthy Attack Roach, Filthy Attack Roach (both easily frozen).
  • Fight Plague Rat of Doom.  Use an MBR.  Do way more damage than necessary.
  • Tap the wrong button and go back into the sewer temporarily.
  • Record the melody of Magnet Hill.  Grab the Carrot key.
  • Go back into the sewer and Exit mouse out.
  • From the stairs of the museum, teleport to Dalaam.  This avoids the photographer.  Thanks go to Halamantariel and Nitrodon once agian.
  • Taking a rather odd angle to avoid another photographer, walk into the palace and save.

Run time:  5:23.
Total video time:  3:57:46.
Est. total run time:  3:49:58.
Inventory changes:
  • Ness:  -Signed banana, +Carrot key.
  • Paula:  -Exit mouse.
  • Jeff:  -Multi bottle rocket.
  • Poo:  (none)

Status:
  • $1401 on hand, $24533 in ATM.
  • Ness (42):  ATM card, Sound Stone, Big league bat (equipped), Coin of defense (equipped), Night pendant (equipped), Receiver phone, Pencil eraser, Platinum band (equipped), Bag of Dragonite, Brain food lunch, Hieroglyph copy, Casey bat, Carrot key.
  • Paula (38):  Diamond band (equipped), Talisman ribbon (equipped), Rain pendant (equipped), French fry pan (equipped), Coin of Defense, Cup of Lifenoodles, Jar of Fly Honey, PSI caramel, Backstage pass, Bicycle, Bad key machine, Pak of bubble gum, Franklin badge.
  • Jeff (38):  Souvenir coin (equipped), Death ray (equipped), Platinum band (equipped), Crystal charm (equipped), Neutralizer, Key to the tower, Mr. Saturn coin, Crusher beam, Multi bottle rocket, Multi bottle rocket.
  • Poo (35):  Bottle of water, Brain food lunch.


EDIT:  The Hawk eye disappears after you use it.  Missed that on the first writeup.
Mickey_Mage
2008-08-22 12:20:18 pm
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
I figured someone else but me would post comments by now for the other segments (18-25), but since none have yet, I guess I'll put those there since I did them yesterday, and wait on my comments for these current ones for later.

Segment 18: Not a bad segment overall. You could have luck manipulated more, as you said. I am curious why you fled from one of the ducks before the first 3rd Mole fight? Did you think there would be a Nooseman beside it? You probably should have restarted when you fought that second battle of Noosemen and Ducks, because one of the Noosemen entangled you, and so, Ness lost a turn that could have ended the battle faster. I’m guessing you really had little choice in using those BBR’s, didn’t you? Probably with more luck, you might’ve only needed one, but PP is limited down there, and you need Ness for healing…

Segment 19: I don’t blame you for switching items around in the beginning of this segment (I would have taken that time to do it myself actually). I mean, you could have done it in the previous segment, yes, but, along with killing the moles, you would have to remember what to switch from whom and where to put each item, at the end of an already long segment. Ok, so 3 BBR’s for, I’m guessing, Dept Store Spook, and Mani Mani (and you have one with you, too, right), and four Super Bombs for the robot in the Monotoli Building? Since they’re cheap, I don’t think it was that bad of a thing to use that BBR in the Mole cave, but if it could be helped, then it would save you $139 :p.  Ok, I understand about the Super Bombs, but wasn’t there a way for you to manipulate it a little more so that the second floor was clean, or at least to a point where you can outrun the enemies? Two battles of the Records is just a brutal way to go through this place. I know it’s hard as hell to get the 4th floor easy to maneuver around on, but not the 2nd all that much. Would have saved you a little money overall with a tad more luck, but I do like the strategy of super bomb/BBR combo at the Dept. Store Spook, though.

Segment 20: Now that’s a lot of BBR’s. Was selling the Super Bomb necessary though?

Segment 21: You were lucky that Ness SMASH! hit Mani Mani, or that would have been a good time to restart. I don’t remember how luck usually goes against Mani, but getting Jeff numb can’t be good either (just for the sake of beating Mani faster, I guess—I know you heal completely in the monkey cave).


Segment 22: Wow, I don’t think I’ve seen that many enemies in that case, and especially just one room.

Segment 23: Now that was a good Clumsy Robot fight. Also, that’s the best I’ve ever seen anybody move through that part with the skipsandwich DX. So, if you had two more super bombs it would have gone better? The neutralizer probably isn’t THAT much out of the way, as opposed to using money to get 2 more super bombs, are they? At least your two attacks hit their mark with your special attack (missing once isn’t bad against this guy).

Segment 24: Only question I have for this segment is, can’t you go behind the sign near the old woman to get up the ropes to the training area? I always thought that’s how I used to do it.

Segment 24 part 2: How come the second Shattered man didn’t attack you in the museum?

Segment 25: I guess as long as everything hits, it doesn’t matter if you use the Flash Beta thing or not to kill the Kracken. Really, when I did kill him that one time I tried using that attack, it took me two rounds for it to hit him, so it’s probably about as fast this way. Any more than two rounds to kill the Kracken, and restarting is probably best.

__sdfg
2008-08-22 02:19:41 pm
D:
Quote from Mickey_Mage:
Segment 18: Not a bad segment overall. You could have luck manipulated more, as you said. I am curious why you fled from one of the ducks before the first 3rd Mole fight? Did you think there would be a Nooseman beside it? You probably should have restarted when you fought that second battle of Noosemen and Ducks, because one of the Noosemen entangled you, and so, Ness lost a turn that could have ended the battle faster. I’m guessing you really had little choice in using those BBR’s, didn’t you? Probably with more luck, you might’ve only needed one, but PP is limited down there, and you need Ness for healing…

I think I dodged the duck for the sake of dodging.  My operative assumption for much of the run was that I should be avoiding encounters, but I may have been better off just fighting that one.

If I'd done more luck abuse and actually used the PSI caramel, I should have had enough PP to make it through the cave on only two Big bottle rockets.  That's my thought, at least.  Re-watching the next segment, the trip up to the second floor of the department store took longer than I remembered and I'd like to avoid doing it if I can.

Quote:
Segment 19: (snip) Ok, so 3 BBR’s for, I’m guessing, Dept Store Spook, and Mani Mani (and you have one with you, too, right), and four Super Bombs for the robot in the Monotoli Building? Since they’re cheap, I don’t think it was that bad of a thing to use that BBR in the Mole cave, but if it could be helped, then it would save you $139 :p.  Ok, I understand about the Super Bombs, but wasn’t there a way for you to manipulate it a little more so that the second floor was clean, or at least to a point where you can outrun the enemies? Two battles of the Records is just a brutal way to go through this place. I know it’s hard as hell to get the 4th floor easy to maneuver around on, but not the 2nd all that much. Would have saved you a little money overall with a tad more luck, but I do like the strategy of super bomb/BBR combo at the Dept. Store Spook, though.

I got the big pile of BBRs for future battles, since there aren't any convenient sources between here and Scaraba.  I planned on using two for Mani-Mani, two for Shrooom!, one for the Shattered Man, and two for Kraken.

I agree that a proper run should have fewer fights in here.  Ideally, I'd get a good enough run that I wouldn't need any Super Bombs or rockets to help me reach the top.  That way, if I grabbed the Super Bomb from the mole cave and I hung on to the BBR, I wouldn't need to visit the arms dealer until after the Dept. Store Spook fight.  The mole cave gift box should be pretty quick if I can avoid an encounter (I should probably verify that there isn't a triggered enemy in there, actually).

I guess another idea would be to stop at the arms dealer on the way into the mall and drop a bunch of BBRs in Paula's inventory, then skip the visit on the way out.  I'd have to spend a bunch of time transferring them later on, though, and the menu navigation in this game is quite time-consuming.

Quote:
Segment 20: Now that’s a lot of BBR’s. Was selling the Super Bomb necessary though?

No, it was a mistake.  I didn't need the extra BBR and I did need the Super Bomb.

Quote:
Segment 21: You were lucky that Ness SMASH! hit Mani Mani, or that would have been a good time to restart. I don’t remember how luck usually goes against Mani, but getting Jeff numb can’t be good either (just for the sake of beating Mani faster, I guess—I know you heal completely in the monkey cave).

I agree.

Quote:
Segment 22: Wow, I don’t think I’ve seen that many enemies in that case, and especially just one room.

I agree here, too.  I actually redid this segment a couple times to cut down on the number of encounters.  This segment made me nervous about the ROM I've been using.  I didn't notice anything too unusual about the rest of the game, though.

Quote:
Segment 23: Now that was a good Clumsy Robot fight. Also, that’s the best I’ve ever seen anybody move through that part with the skipsandwich DX. So, if you had two more super bombs it would have gone better? The neutralizer probably isn’t THAT much out of the way, as opposed to using money to get 2 more super bombs, are they? At least your two attacks hit their mark with your special attack (missing once isn’t bad against this guy).

Thanks, I probably had to restart this segment >30 times to dodge all the sentries and get a decent fight.  I hope it's easier with a real controller.

I want to use the Super Bombs because they're likely to end the battle in two rounds:  4 * 270 = 1080 damage on average, compared to Clumsy Robot's 962 HP.  If I use the Neutralizer, it'll take a minimum of three rounds.  Buying an extra Super Bomb is quicker than getting the Neutralizer, and the only time I was worried about my cash supply after this point was when I was buying Multi bottle rockets in southern Scaraba.  I think I'll be fine there if I don't buy the Crusher beam.

Quote:
Segment 24: Only question I have for this segment is, can’t you go behind the sign near the old woman to get up the ropes to the training area? I always thought that’s how I used to do it.

You probably can.  The dialogue-skipping thing was a new trick for me.

Quote:
Segment 24 part 2: How come the second Shattered man didn’t attack you in the museum?

Only one Shattered Man can attack at a time.  If you take care of your business quickly, you can get out of the room before you stop flashing from the first battle, so the second one won't come after you.  This leads to an interesting semi-glitch where you can come back and fight the other one during the end of the game.  I read somewhere that the game crashes if you lose that fight, but I haven't tried it myself.

Quote:
Segment 25: I guess as long as everything hits, it doesn’t matter if you use the Flash Beta thing or not to kill the Kracken. Really, when I did kill him that one time I tried using that attack, it took me two rounds for it to hit him, so it’s probably about as fast this way. Any more than two rounds to kill the Kracken, and restarting is probably best.

Fortunately, with my strategy for fighting Kraken, I'll probably lose if the fight goes on for more than two rounds. Cheesy
Mickey_Mage
2008-08-22 03:37:55 pm
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
Quote from __sdfg:
I think I dodged the duck for the sake of dodging.  My operative assumption for much of the run was that I should be avoiding encounters, but I may have been better off just fighting that one.


Eh, it's just one battle, and you got more than enough experience down there already as it is. For all you know there might have been noosemen next to the duck (it seems to be the combo you most likely expect down there anyway), so it probably did save you a big fight :P.

Quote:
If I'd done more luck abuse and actually used the PSI caramel, I should have had enough PP to make it through the cave on only two Big bottle rockets.  That's my thought, at least.  Re-watching the next segment, the trip up to the second floor of the department store took longer than I remembered and I'd like to avoid doing it if I can.



So, you had enough Super Bombs where you wouldn't have needed to buy more, if you came out of the Mole cave with more (or that one that's in there)?

Quote:
I got the big pile of BBRs for future battles, since there aren't any convenient sources between here and Scaraba.  I planned on using two for Mani-Mani, two for Shrooom!, one for the Shattered Man, and two for Kraken.


Yep, just watched those segments, and your strategy with the Shattered men seemed to work. I'll comment more on this topic when I comment on that segment, though.

Quote:
I agree that a proper run should have fewer fights in here.  Ideally, I'd get a good enough run that I wouldn't need any Super Bombs or rockets to help me reach the top.  That way, if I grabbed the Super Bomb from the mole cave and I hung on to the BBR, I wouldn't need to visit the arms dealer until after the Dept. Store Spook fight.  The mole cave gift box should be pretty quick if I can avoid an encounter (I should probably verify that there isn't a triggered enemy in there, actually).


I can understand getting in a fight on the 4th floor, I was only concerned with the 2nd. I don't know how long it would take to get all floors clean, so just a quick fight on the 4th is all a runner would really need. Cup of coffee is a pain in the ass, though, so I guess it was a good thing you got the records.


Quote:
I agree here, too.  I actually redid this segment a couple times to cut down on the number of encounters.  This segment made me nervous about the ROM I've been using.  I didn't notice anything too unusual about the rest of the game, though.


Well, if it's the ROM being a little too hyper for it's own good, then it'll be much easier on console to cut down on enemies. The only single room (in a cave) that I've seen that many enemies, is on the way to Trillionage Sprout, and that always has a lot of enemies to deal with, unfortunately...

Quote:
Thanks, I probably had to restart this segment >30 times to dodge all the sentries and get a decent fight.  I hope it's easier with a real controller.


I guess as long as you can get through the rooms, it doesn't matter if the robot fight is that good or not really, as his battle doesn't waste half as much time as running into those damn sentry robots. I only had trouble in a couple of rooms myself, when I tried out the DX trick the first time, and those were the rooms where you cut it close by barely hitting the next door, or running at a weird diagonal. It probably is easier with a controller, with practice, since you get better control over diagonal running, I think.

Quote:
Only one Shattered Man can attack at a time.  If you take care of your business quickly, you can get out of the room before you stop flashing from the first battle, so the second one won't come after you.  This leads to an interesting semi-glitch where you can come back and fight the other one during the end of the game.  I read somewhere that the game crashes if you lose that fight, but I haven't tried it myself.


I knew only one can attack at one time, I just didn't know you could actually be that quick to get out without being attacked by the other (non-TAS). I mean, the other guy didn't even move when you were leaving, and it didn't look like you were still blinking, but I could be wrong. I'll have to practice that because I've never been able to pull off only one fight in there...
__sdfg
2008-08-23 12:53:34 am
D:
Replying to questions(-ish)...

Quote from Mickey_Mage:
Quote:
If I'd done more luck abuse and actually used the PSI caramel, I should have had enough PP to make it through the cave on only two Big bottle rockets.  That's my thought, at least.  Re-watching the next segment, the trip up to the second floor of the department store took longer than I remembered and I'd like to avoid doing it if I can.

So, you had enough Super Bombs where you wouldn't have needed to buy more, if you came out of the Mole cave with more (or that one that's in there)?

What I'm hoping for is to get a good enough run in the department store that I won't need to use any Super bombs on the way up.  More specifically, I'd look for a run with only one encounter, and that encounter would have to be something I can Rockin/shoot to death quickly.  That way, I could use the Super bomb from the mole cave to take out the spook and I wouldn't have to worry about buying anything in advance.

Quote:
Quote:
Only one Shattered Man can attack at a time.  If you take care of your business quickly, you can get out of the room before you stop flashing from the first battle, so the second one won't come after you.  This leads to an interesting semi-glitch where you can come back and fight the other one during the end of the game.  I read somewhere that the game crashes if you lose that fight, but I haven't tried it myself.

I knew only one can attack at one time, I just didn't know you could actually be that quick to get out without being attacked by the other (non-TAS). I mean, the other guy didn't even move when you were leaving, and it didn't look like you were still blinking, but I could be wrong. I'll have to practice that because I've never been able to pull off only one fight in there...

Hmm, I went back and looked at my local copy of the video and I wasn't flashing.  I think the principle still applies, though.  I know that I've done this one on the console before.
__sdfg
2008-08-23 05:54:01 pm
D:
Six more segments.  The next batch should finish the game.


Segment 30 (Pink Cloud)
Summary:
  • Leave the palace.  Head to the right at first to avoid the photographer by the door.
  • Use the Carrot key.  Enter the cave.
  • Fight Thunder Mite/Tangoo.
  • Try really hard to avoid a one-enemy fight, then give up and fight Tangoo/Kiss of Death.
  • Fight Tangoo/Kiss of Death, Conducting Menace/Tangoo more willingly.
  • MBR Thunder and Storm.  MBRs are so nice.
  • Head back to the entrance.  Put the Bracer of kings on Poo.
  • Teleport to Winters.  Save in the shop.

Notes:
  • I thought I'd gotten fewer encounters than that.  I'll have to try harder in the future.  At least the fights are easy.

Run time:  6:16.
Total video time:  4:04:02.
Est. total run time:  3:56:02.
Inventory changes:
  • Ness:  -Carrot key, +Snake.
  • Paula:  (none)
  • Jeff:  -Multi bottle rocket.
  • Poo:  +Bracer of kings.

Status:
  • $1401 on hand, $33617 in ATM.
  • Ness (43):  ATM card, Sound Stone, Big league bat (equipped), Coin of defense (equipped), Night pendant (equipped), Receiver phone, Pencil eraser, Platinum band (equipped), Bag of Dragonite, Brain food lunch, Hieroglyph copy, Casey bat, Snake.
  • Paula (40):  Diamond band (equipped), Talisman ribbon (equipped), Rain pendant (equipped), French fry pan (equipped), Coin of Defense, Cup of Lifenoodles, Jar of Fly Honey, PSI caramel, Backstage pass, Bicycle, Bad key machine, Pak of bubble gum, Franklin badge.
  • Jeff (40):  Souvenir coin (equipped), Death ray (equipped), Platinum band (equipped), Crystal charm (equipped), Neutralizer, Key to the tower, Mr. Saturn coin, Crusher beam, Multi bottle rocket.
  • Poo (38):  Bracer of kings (equipped), Bottle of water, Brain food lunch.



Segment 31 (Winters Is Overrun)
Summary:
  • Head south.  Fight Wooly Shambler.
  • Cross the lake.
  • Use the Pencil eraser to skip the Brick Road dungeon.
  • Fight Lesser Mook.
  • Find myself surrounded in the cave.  Fight Strong Crocodile/Elder Batty x2 (green/run).
  • Talk to Apple Kid's mouse to get the Eraser eraser.
  • Save.

Notes:
  • Well, I guess I lied about not seeing anything weird after the monkey cave. :|
  • I should have used the revitalizer before saving.  Oh, well.

Run time:  5:03.
Total video time:  4:09:05.
Est. total run time:  4:00:53.
Inventory changes:
  • Ness:  +Eraser eraser.
  • Paula:  (none)
  • Jeff:  (none)
  • Poo:  (none)

Status:
  • $1401 on hand, $34542 in ATM.
  • Ness (43):  ATM card, Sound Stone, Big league bat (equipped), Coin of defense (equipped), Night pendant (equipped), Receiver phone, Pencil eraser, Platinum band (equipped), Bag of Dragonite, Brain food lunch, Hieroglyph copy, Casey bat, Snake, Eraser eraser.
  • Paula (40):  Diamond band (equipped), Talisman ribbon (equipped), Rain pendant (equipped), French fry pan (equipped), Coin of Defense, Cup of Lifenoodles, Jar of Fly Honey, PSI caramel, Backstage pass, Bicycle, Bad key machine, Pak of bubble gum, Franklin badge.
  • Jeff (40):  Souvenir coin (equipped), Death ray (equipped), Platinum band (equipped), Crystal charm (equipped), Neutralizer, Key to the tower, Mr. Saturn coin, Crusher beam, Multi bottle rocket.
  • Poo (38):  Bracer of kings (equipped), Bottle of water, Brain food lunch.



Segment 32 (You Must Not *whirr* Underestimate Us)
Summary:
  • Use the revitalizer.  I mainly did this to recover Paula's PP.
  • Enter Stonehenge.  Use the Eraser eraser.
  • In the purple-floored area, fight Starman/Mook Senior, Mook Senior, Starman/Atomic Power Robot, Mook Senior.
  • In the metal-floored area, fight Starman Super/Starman (green/run), Starman/Starman Super/Atomic Power Robot (run in the second round, Poo falls unconscious).
  • Get the PSI caramel along the way.  It may come in handy at some point.
  • Pick up an exit mouse.
  • Use the Cup of Lifenoodles to revive Poo.
  • In the dimly-lit area (which was too dim to be easily navigable on my monitor), get the Pixie's bracelet and put it on Paula.  Spend a good while avoiding fights.
  • MBR Starman Deluxe.
  • Talk to Dr. Andonuts so the Exit mouse will do its job, then leave Stonehenge.
  • Fight Cave boy (green/instakill) immediately after exiting.
  • Teleport to Onett.
  • Use the hotel ATM to pull out a big chunk of money, then save on the hotel phone.

Notes:
  • Because of how long Stonehenge is, I did not have the patience to do the necessary number of restarts.  This was the best run I got before I gave up.  I don't think it's all that bad (death aside), but it should be possible to do better.
  • I think this segment is a good candidate for using the Cup of Lifenoodles.  It'll be there anyway if the Mr. Saturn coin is acquired.  My other suggestion would be the past.
  • I completely forgot about the Saturn Ribbon.  I should get it in the future.
  • The Onett ATM is the closest to being on my route of any ATM I could think of.  Teleporting into Onett dumps you right in front of the hotel.  I need the money for MBRs and the “ATM” in Deep Darkness takes a while to reach.

Run time:  9:29.
Total video time:  4:18:34.
Est. total run time:  4:10:10.
Inventory changes:
  • Ness:  (none)
  • Paula:  +PSI caramel, -Cup of Lifenoodles, +Pixie's bracelet.
  • Jeff:  -Multi bottle rocket.
  • Poo:  (none)

Status:
  • $41401 on hand, $2701 in ATM.
  • Ness (46):  ATM card, Sound Stone, Big league bat (equipped), Coin of defense (equipped), Night pendant (equipped), Receiver phone, Pencil eraser, Platinum band (equipped), Bag of Dragonite, Brain food lunch, Hieroglyph copy, Casey bat, Snake, Eraser eraser.
  • Paula (43):  Pixie's bracelet (equipped), Talisman ribbon (equipped), Rain pendant (equipped), French fry pan (equipped), Coin of Defense, Jar of Fly Honey, PSI caramel, PSI caramel, Backstage pass, Bicycle, Bad key machine, Pak of bubble gum, Franklin badge, Diamond Band.
  • Jeff (41):  Souvenir coin (equipped), Death ray (equipped), Platinum band (equipped), Crystal charm (equipped), Neutralizer, Key to the tower, Mr. Saturn coin, Crusher beam.
  • Poo (41):  Bracer of kings (equipped), Bottle of water, Brain food lunch.



Segment 33 (Overcoming Shyness)
Summary:
  • Not a whole lot going on in this segment.  Just some odds and ends.  I suppose I could've joined it to the last segment.
  • Walk to the Onett library.  Grab the Shyness book from the leftmost bookcase in the first room.
  • Teleport to Deep Darkness.
  • Sell Ness's Platinum band, Ness's Coin of defense, the Casey Bat, the Snake ($110? Really?), Paula's Coin of defense, and Jeff's Crusher beam.
  • Move the Diamond band and Mr. Saturn coin over to Ness.
  • Make some space in Jeff's inventory by giving the Key to the tower to Poo and the Shyness book to Ness.
  • Fill the 9 open slots in Jeff's inventory with MBRs.
  • Teleport to Tenda Village.  Give the elder the Shyness book.  Get the Tendakraut.
  • Sit through the photo shoot and the name confirmation.
  • Get the Bag of Dragonite from the elder.
  • Save.

Run time:  5:15.
Total video time:  4:23:49.
Est. total run time:  4:15:13.
Inventory changes:
  • Ness:  -Platinum band, -Coin of defense, -Snake, +Diamond band, +Mr. Saturn coin, +Tendakraut, +Bag of Dragonite.
  • Paula:  -Coin of defense, -Diamond band.
  • Jeff:  -Crusher beam, -Mr. Saturn coin, -Key to the tower, +Multi bottle rocket x9.
  • Poo:  +Key to the tower.

Status:
  • $26803 on hand, $2701 in ATM.
  • Ness (46):  ATM card, Sound Stone, Big league bat (equipped), Mr. Saturn coin (equipped), Night pendant (equipped), Receiver phone, Pencil eraser, Diamond band (equipped), Bag of Dragonite, Bag of Dragonite, Brain food lunch, Hieroglyph copy, Eraser eraser, Tendakraut.
  • Paula (43):  Pixie's bracelet (equipped), Talisman ribbon (equipped), Rain pendant (equipped), French fry pan (equipped), Jar of Fly Honey, PSI caramel, PSI caramel, Backstage pass, Bicycle, Bad key machine, Pak of bubble gum, Franklin badge.
  • Jeff (41):  Souvenir coin (equipped), Death ray (equipped), Platinum band (equipped), Crystal charm (equipped), Neutralizer, Multi bottle rocket x9.
  • Poo (41):  Bracer of kings (equipped), Bottle of water, Brain food lunch, Key to the tower.



Segment 34 (Lumine Hall)
Summary:
  • Talk to the strong Tenda.  Go downstairs.
  • Talk to the talking rock (mandatory).
  • Wander through the cave.  Fight Fobby, Fobby.  Take the Bottle of DXwater just in case.
  • Have Jeff drop the Crystal charm and replace it with the Rabbit's foot.
  • You know, I could have sold that Crystal charm.  I'm pretty rich right now, though.
  • Fight Electro Specter.  Win with two MBRs.
  • Teleport into Saturn Valley.  Save on the hotel phone.

Run time:  6:11.
Total video time:  4:30:00.
Est. total run time:  4:21:12.
Inventory changes:
  • Ness:  (none)
  • Paula:  +Bottle of DXwater.
  • Jeff:  -Crystal charm, +Rabbit's foot, -Multi bottle rocket x2.
  • Poo:  (none)

Status:
  • $26803 on hand, $10505 in ATM.
  • Ness (47):  ATM card, Sound Stone, Big league bat (equipped), Mr. Saturn coin (equipped), Night pendant (equipped), Receiver phone, Pencil eraser, Diamond band (equipped), Bag of Dragonite, Bag of Dragonite, Brain food lunch, Hieroglyph copy, Eraser eraser, Tendakraut.
  • Paula (45):  Pixie's bracelet (equipped), Talisman ribbon (equipped), Rain pendant (equipped), French fry pan (equipped), Jar of Fly Honey, PSI caramel, PSI caramel, Backstage pass, Bicycle, Bad key machine, Pak of bubble gum, Franklin badge. Bottle of DXwater.
  • Jeff (43):  Souvenir coin (equipped), Death ray (equipped), Platinum band (equipped), Rabbit's foot (equipped), Neutralizer, Multi bottle rocket x7.
  • Poo (43):  Bracer of kings (equipped), Bottle of water, Brain food lunch, Key to the tower.



Segment 35 (Milky Well)
Summary:
  • Enter the Milky Well cave.  Stay to the left while entering to avoid a photo shoot.
  • Fight Struttin' Evil Mushroom x2/Ranboob/Tough Mobile Sprout (green/run), Ranboob/Struttin' Evil Mushroom x2/Tough Mobile Sprout (black/Fire Omega).
  • Fight Trillionage Sprout.  Use an MBR.  Get a Spring of parsley.
  • Go back and save on the store phone.  Avoid the photographer again.

Notes:
  • Here you can see that glitch I mentioned earlier.  The only enemy that appeared to be actively pursuing me was the one Ranboob.  This let me turn the first fight into a green swirl and avoid a third fight entirely.  Between this glitch, the MBR, and the fact that only Ness leveled, I was able to get in and out of the cave in under three minutes, faster than the early-game run in the TAS.

Run time:  3:47.
Total video time:  4:33:47.
Est. total run time:  4:24:47.
Inventory changes:
  • Ness:  (none)
  • Paula:  +Spring of parsley.
  • Jeff:  -Multi bottle rocket.
  • Poo:  (none)

Status:
  • $26803 on hand, $12330 in ATM.
  • Ness (48):  ATM card, Sound Stone, Big league bat (equipped), Mr. Saturn coin (equipped), Night pendant (equipped), Receiver phone, Pencil eraser, Diamond band (equipped), Bag of Dragonite, Bag of Dragonite, Brain food lunch, Hieroglyph copy, Eraser eraser, Tendakraut.
  • Paula (45):  Pixie's bracelet (equipped), Talisman ribbon (equipped), Rain pendant (equipped), French fry pan (equipped), Jar of Fly Honey, PSI caramel, PSI caramel, Backstage pass, Bicycle, Bad key machine, Pak of bubble gum, Franklin badge. Bottle of DXwater, Spring of parsley.
  • Jeff (43):  Souvenir coin (equipped), Death ray (equipped), Platinum band (equipped), Rabbit's foot (equipped), Neutralizer, Multi bottle rocket x6.
  • Poo (43):  Bracer of kings (equipped), Bottle of water, Brain food lunch, Key to the tower.
__sdfg
2008-08-24 10:14:24 am
D:
Here's the last batch.

Segment 36 (Pacing the Cage)
Summary:
  • Have Paula give the Bottle of DXwater to Poo, to make space.
  • Teleport to the Lost Underworld.
  • Run across the Lost Underworld.  Telecrash in fairly open spaces and whenever necessary to avoid an encounter.
  • Pick up the Sea pendant (equip on Paula) and Cloak of kings (equip on Poo).

Notes:
  • I don't think the equipment in the village is worth the time it would take to get in and buy it.
  • I did some testing and found that bad telecrashing is significantly slower than no telecrashing at all.  Good telecrashing, like in the TAS, will save you time, but your regular walking speed isn't slow enough to justify running into things repeatedly.
  • In a real run, I'd probably want to practice a little more and get in a couple more teleports.  Re-watching the run, I saw a few places where I probably didn't need to walk.
  • I get the Sea pendant because it makes the last stage of the Giygas battle a piece of cake.  It's a necessity.
  • I get the Cloak of kings because it allows Poo to attack before the enemy nearly every time.  It's not as useful as the Sea pendant, but I like it.  It may be skippable.

Run time:  2:35.
Total video time:  4:36:22.
Est. total run time:  4:27:10.
Inventory changes:
  • Ness:  (none)
  • Paula:  -Bottle of DXwater, +Sea pendant.
  • Jeff:  (none)
  • Poo:  +Bottle of DXwater, +Cloak of kings.

Status:
  • $26803 on hand, $12330 in ATM.
  • Ness (48):  ATM card, Sound Stone, Big league bat (equipped), Mr. Saturn coin (equipped), Night pendant (equipped), Receiver phone, Pencil eraser, Diamond band (equipped), Bag of Dragonite, Bag of Dragonite, Brain food lunch, Hieroglyph copy, Eraser eraser, Tendakraut.
  • Paula (45):  Pixie's bracelet (equipped), Talisman ribbon (equipped), Sea pendant (equipped), French fry pan (equipped), Jar of Fly Honey, PSI caramel, PSI caramel, Backstage pass, Bicycle, Bad key machine, Pak of bubble gum, Franklin badge, Spring of parsley, Rain pendant.
  • Jeff (43):  Souvenir coin (equipped), Death ray (equipped), Platinum band (equipped), Rabbit's foot (equipped), Neutralizer, Multi bottle rocket x6.
  • Poo (43):  Bracer of kings (equipped), Cloak of kings (equipped), Bottle of water, Bottle of DXwater, Brain food lunch, Key to the tower.



Segment 37 (Fire Spring)
Summary:
  • Telecrash from the refuge to near the cave entrance, avoiding a Wetnosaur.
  • Wander through Fire Spring, ignoring the gift boxes.
  • Fight Psychic Psycho (green/run), Soul Consuming Flame, Major Psychic Psycho/Soul Consuming Flame (run), Evil Elemental, Soul Consuming Flame.
  • Fight Carbon Dog and Diamond Dog.  Have Jeff use three MBRs.  Ness heals him the first turn so he doesn't die from the power shield before the end of the battle.  Everyone defends the rest of the time.
    • In the tests I ran, this strategy was faster than trying to add Freeze, Starstorm, and/or the Neutralizer to the mix.  The only faster battle I've seen is the one in the TAS, where Ness somehow attacks before Rabbit's foot Jeff and takes out Carbon Dog with Flash Beta.
  • Have Ness give the Tendakraut, Pencil eraser, and Hieroglyph copy to Poo, again to make space.
  • Move the Hieroglyph copy from Paula to Ness (in case of Electro Swooshes and Kraken).
  • Learn the melody of Fire Spring.  Enter Magicant.
  • Save on the hotel phone.

Notes:
  • It probably would have been smarter to do the item reorganization in the the previous segment, since I didn't have a whole lot going on in it.

Run time:  7:42.
Total video time:  4:44:04.
Est. total run time:  4:34:40.
Inventory changes:
  • Ness:  -Tendakraut, -Pencil eraser, -Hieroglyph copy, +Franklin badge.
  • Paula:  -Franklin badge.
  • Jeff:  -Multi bottle rocket x3.
  • Poo:  +Tendakraut, +Pencil eraser, +Hieroglyph copy.

Status:
  • $26803 on hand, $21687 in ATM.
  • Ness (50):  ATM card, Sound Stone, Big league bat (equipped), Mr. Saturn coin (equipped), Night pendant (equipped), Receiver phone, Diamond band (equipped), Bag of Dragonite, Bag of Dragonite, Brain food lunch, Eraser eraser, Franklin badge.
  • Paula (47):  Pixie's bracelet (equipped), Talisman ribbon (equipped), Sea pendant (equipped), French fry pan (equipped), Jar of Fly Honey, PSI caramel, PSI caramel, Backstage pass, Bicycle, Bad key machine, Pak of bubble gum, Spring of parsley, Rain pendant.
  • Jeff (45):  Souvenir coin (equipped), Death ray (equipped), Platinum band (equipped), Rabbit's foot (equipped), Neutralizer, Multi bottle rocket x3.
  • Poo (46):  Bracer of kings (equipped), Cloak of kings (equipped), Bottle of water, Bottle of DXwater, Brain food lunch, Key to the tower, Tendakraut, Pencil eraser, Hieroglyph copy.



Segment 38 (The Evil Part of Your Brain)
Summary:
  • Walk through Magicant.  Get a Flying Man.
  • Grab the Bag of Dragonite.
  • Get the Magicant bat, too.
  • Fight French Kiss of Death/Electro Swoosh, Mr. Molecule x4, and Mr. Molecule.
  • Misjudge the first Kraken and end up fighting it.
  • Dodge the other two successfully, but kind of slowly.  This part of the run could have used some more practice and restarts.
  • Use all three Bags of Dragonite on Ness's Nightmare.  Win after the third one.
  • Level a lot.
  • Teleport to Saturn Valley.  Talk to Dr. Andonuts and try out the prototype Phase Distorter to trigger the change in Onett.
  • Save in the Saturn Valley hotel.

Notes:
  • I'm not sure if Flying Man is a timesaver or a timewaster.  He wastes about half of his turns, but the other half are useful and he absorbs a bunch of hits.  I think I like having him along.
  • In case anyone was wondering, Skip sandwiches don't do anything in the Sea of Eden.  I checked in a different save file.

Run time:  9:51.
Total video time:  4:53:55.
Est. total run time:  4:44:19.
Inventory changes:
  • Ness:  -Bag of Dragonite x2, +Magicant bat.
  • Paula:  (none)
  • Jeff:  (none)
  • Poo:  (none)

Status:
  • $26803 on hand, $34143 in ATM.
  • Ness (58):  ATM card, Sound Stone, Magicant bat (equipped), Mr. Saturn coin (equipped), Night pendant (equipped), Receiver phone, Diamond band (equipped), Brain food lunch, Eraser eraser, Franklin badge, Big league bat.
  • Paula (47):  Pixie's bracelet (equipped), Talisman ribbon (equipped), Sea pendant (equipped), French fry pan (equipped), Jar of Fly Honey, PSI caramel, PSI caramel, Backstage pass, Bicycle, Bad key machine, Pak of bubble gum, Spring of parsley, Rain pendant.
  • Jeff (45):  Souvenir coin (equipped), Death ray (equipped), Platinum band (equipped), Rabbit's foot (equipped), Neutralizer, Multi bottle rocket x3.
  • Poo (46):  Bracer of kings (equipped), Cloak of kings (equipped), Bottle of water, Bottle of DXwater, Brain food lunch, Key to the tower, Tendakraut, Pencil eraser, Hieroglyph copy.



Segment 39 (Zexonyte)
Summary:
  • Teleport to Deep Darkness.  Fill Jeff's inventory with MBRs.
  • Fight Ghost of Starman/Evil Eye/Mechanical Octobot (green/run), Ghost of Starman/Mechanical Octobot (green/run), Mechanical Octobot/Evil Eye (Use MBR/Freeze).
  • Get the Meteorite piece.  Teleport back to Saturn Valley.  Somehow hit a Magic butterfly in the process.
  • Give Dr. Andonuts the Meteorite piece.
  • Stay the night in the hotel.
  • Get in the Phase Distorter, after a lot of talking.
  • Go through the Star Master and Apple Kid/Andonuts trigger.
  • Put your brain in a robot body.
  • Forget how the menu works on the Phase Distorter.  Save eventually.

Notes:
  • From what I've seen in my own runs and the TAS, there are two fights you're almost guaranteed to get in, unless you can somehow manipulate the enemies into getting stuck against trees (like in the TAS).  A run through this segment should not get in any more fights, if possible.  I only accepted this run because I somehow green-swirled two of the fights.
  • Because I already had three leftover MBRs, I could have easily gone through Onett on my existing supply, then loaded up before I made the trip back to the past.  Doing things the way I did, I lost a slot.

Run time:  8:05.
Total video time:  5:02:00.
Est. total run time:  4:52:12.
Inventory changes:
  • Ness:  (none)
  • Paula:  (none)
  • Jeff:  +Multi bottle rocket x5.
  • Poo:  (none)

Status:
  • $13969 on hand, $35783 in ATM.
  • Ness (58):  ATM card, Sound Stone, Magicant bat (equipped), Mr. Saturn coin (equipped), Night pendant (equipped), Receiver phone, Diamond band (equipped), Brain food lunch, Eraser eraser, Franklin badge, Big league bat.
  • Paula (48):  Pixie's bracelet (equipped), Talisman ribbon (equipped), Sea pendant (equipped), French fry pan (equipped), Jar of Fly Honey, PSI caramel, PSI caramel, Backstage pass, Bicycle, Bad key machine, Pak of bubble gum, Spring of parsley, Rain pendant.
  • Jeff (46):  Souvenir coin (equipped), Death ray (equipped), Platinum band (equipped), Rabbit's foot (equipped), Neutralizer, Multi bottle rocket x8.
  • Poo (46):  Bracer of kings (equipped), Cloak of kings (equipped), Bottle of water, Bottle of DXwater, Brain food lunch, Key to the tower, Tendakraut, Pencil eraser, Hieroglyph copy.



Segment 40 (The End)
Summary:
  • Move the Franklin Badge over to Paula.
  • Fight:
    • Ultimate Octobot (MBR)
    • Nuclear Reactor Robot (run in 3 rounds)
    • Ghost of Starman/Nuclear Reactor Robot (MBR+run)
    • Wild 'n Wooly Shambler/Ghost of Starman (MBR+freeze)
    • Ghost of Starman/Nuclear Reactor Robot (MBR+run)
    • Nuclear Reactor Robot/Ghost of Starman (green/run)
    • Wild 'n Wooly Shambler (freeze)
    • Nuclear Reactor Robot (run in 2 rounds)
    • Nuclear Reactor Robot/Final Starman (run)
    • Final Starman/Ghost of Starman (green/run)
  • Use a Bottle of DXwater on Poo unnecessarily.
  • Fight Giygas.
    • Stage 1:  Have Ness, Paula, and Jeff do their worst against Pokey.  Have Poo heal Paula since she doesn't cope with Rockin well.
    • Stage 2:  Paula, and Poo use their strongest PSI powers while Ness bashes.  Poo is flashed into unconsciousness.  Ness revives him and the fight continues.
    • Stage 3:  Paula prays while everyone else defends.  No effort is made to heal anyone.
  • Return to Saturn Valley.  Poo and Jeff leave.  Say, “No,” when Paula asks about escorting her home since her dialogue is shorter.
  • Teleport to Onett.
  • Telecrash into the door of Ness's house.  This avoids the photo shoot in the gate and also stops Paula from asking about taking her home (another trick stolen from the TAS).
  • Talk to Ness's mom to roll the credits.
  • After the credits, answer the door to finally end the game.

Notes:
  • This wasn't a particularly good segment, but I couldn't bear to run it over and sit through the ending again.  For reference in making sure future runs go faster, I reached Giygas at 5:45 and landed the final prayer at 16:58.
  • With the Franklin Badge and Sea Pendant, Paula is mostly invulnerable against Giygas's second and third forms.  The challenge is keeping enough people alive to defeat the first two forms efficiently.
  • I don't know if the Legendary Bat is worthwhile or not, really.  Ness's bashing isn't a critical factor at this point.  He did help out a bit against Giygas, but uninterrupted use of Starstorm would have been a lot more helpful.
  • I recommend having a couple Brain food lunches around for this segment, just in case the trip is heavy on PSI.  The Bottle of DXwater was wasted, as were the PSI caramels.

Run time:  32:51.
Total video time:  5:34:51.
Est. total run time:  5:24:51.
One-shot items I actually needed:
  • Ness:  (none)
  • Paula:  (none)
  • Jeff:  Multi-bottle rocket x6.
  • Poo:  (none)
Mickey_Mage
2008-08-24 01:05:14 pm
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
Well, that was a very good run, I must say. Needs a little more improvement and luck before being submitted, but worth watching to help for future runs. I might start working on doing this sooner than thought originally, but with school, really only weekends I'll be able to do anything (practice mostly), since I don't really want to bring my SNES to school... (nor do I want to practice on an emulator, since I suck with them). I know you're probably going to start doing a new run sooner than I will, but it will be good competition (unless you get a really excellent run the next time around :P).

I'll comment on the remaining segments I haven't covered later. I have too much crap to do in my room today before anymore goofing off...
__sdfg
2008-08-26 06:48:59 am
D:
Competition is welcome as long as I win. Smiley

For what it's worth, I ran through my in-game spending following the most pessimistic scenario (use the least money-efficient enemies when leveling; don't fight any other enemies except bosses; don't sell Chickens).  I do go into the red in a few places, but I think I'll be all right as long as I sell the Defense spray in Threed and I skip the Zip gun/Crusher beam.  The money I need to make ends meet is on the order of a couple extra Attack Slugs or Foppies or what have you.  I'd have to try really hard to bankrupt myself.

Further progress is on hold until my new computer comes in, unless one of my housemates decides to loan me one for the next couple months...
Mickey_Mage
Mickey_Mage
Edit history:
Mickey_Mage: 2008-08-27 08:31:47 am
2008-08-26 08:46:54 pm
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
Final segment comments (I really don't like being the only one to comment here, though).

Segment 26: Try not to get an enemy right outside the towns exit... I don't think it's ever happened to me that much, and if it did, they weren't in my way all that much. Very nice use of the tele-crash to get past the photographer. I never could figure out the angle to do that to skip him, and the way you did it didn't look all that hard either. It's really hard sometimes to avoid fighting in the first few rooms, so you don't have to minimize it too much, since it's a pain to keep restarting just to get the first room empty every time. Would it be better to get some more luck here so you wouldn't have to fight so many Petrified Guards, and in turn save some BBRs, or does it matter? Would tele-crashing only be helpful after the Pyramid, or would it help before as well?

Actually, I'm not going to question it. I'm sure it's probably easier to drop something useless right away, instead of selling it later. I know the menu's are slow, but it's just a simple drop procedure, and you won't have to do it to every item you get, just ones that are completely worthless, to save some room for later. That goes for the Casey bat in the Deep Darkness segment, too. I agree that there is no point in going after the other Dragonite. You get just the right amount of them to beat NN.

Does it take too long to manipulate luck outside of the Pyramid (on the other side)? Though the first fight wasn't particularly hard (time was wasted though, since you didn't finish it fast), fighting more individual enemies might be more to your advantage (unless you can dodge most by taking a different route). Tele-crash, like you mentioned, will help, but probably not so much when you leave the Pyramid. That needs a little more luck. I guess getting the Fry Pan is useful (don't remember how much Paula physically attacks in later segments), but doesn't Jeff already take enough? I know you already addressed this issue, but it all depends on how hard it is to defeat enemies later on, since we already know there's no way you'll run out of money.

Segment 27: Not much to say here really except that it was a good dungeon man segment (it's not a hard place anyway :P).

Segment 28: Yeah, there were a few more places you could've used tele-crash. I didn't actually see too many problems with a majority of your crashes. Considering how slowly you walk in the deep anyway, as long as you go from one end to the other (and maybe a little farther if you can), it still saves time, even if it is like "a couple of feet". Besides, some of those short ones were to get away from enemies. If you saved any time at all, it was from fighting the ones you skipped.

I don't see anything wrong with separating these two segments. Watching Venus is not worth the patience to restart a segment that long...

Segment 28 part 2: I thought it was faster if you didn't talk to the woman at the desk in the museum, and just walked past her and pay that way?

Segment 29: Nice segment. Those are the kinds of encounters you want, if you get any down here. I'm surprised you only got two battles really.

Segment 30: I think you were better off fighting that single enemy, than two, in the very beginning of this where you tried to manipulate luck on the rope. Fighting isn't all THAT hard in here, so fighting occasionally isn't horrible, if it's just one enemy. It was very lucky you ended up with no enemies in two of the dropdown hole rooms. That's hard to pull off.

Segment 31: Good getting through the main part of Winters. Getting stuck isn't a good thing. Might want to work on that (even though I know it's a pain getting around some obstacles in this game...). If it's possible, avoiding fights in the cave would be good.

Segment 32: You need to practice Stonehenge a little more. It's never been all that hard for me to get green swirls off of most Starmen, and I would expect to see most fights with them to be, if you actually get a chance to hit one before other enemies hit you (I know you said you didn't want to restart that much, but being able to do this doesn't require a whole lot of luck if you're fast enough, and can determine well about where the starman will appear). It's best to try something like that at times where you know you'll have to fight a starman and something else. No point in doing that to a single starman, of course. Getting green throughout most of this place is necessary since the battles get significantly harder once you start fighting Starmen Supers.

I did notice you got a few green battles, but I think that one was luck, I can't remember. Don't you have to hit like the side or the back of the Starmen to get a green swirl battle screen? I'm not saying every battle can be like that (in way too small of areas to set up for a green), it's just pointless in some situations where you have to wait for the starman to teleport anyway, and just get a grey swirl, forcing you to fight off the guy(s). You would also avoid using the Cup of Lifenoodles if you got more greens, too, probably :P.

Segment 33: Joining the segments I guess would depend on how well stonehenge goes.

Segment 34: About 1:50 (that's the easiest I can point to this) in the video, you didn't have to try to get rid of those guys; I don't think they would've attacked you... Other than that, Lumine Hall I thought went very well.

Segment 35: This segment is just too funny. Usually one of the hardest places to avoid fighting enemies, and you made it look easy because of that glitch; and Trillionage is just a walk in the park at this point. MBR to a boss this early in the game, now that's what I call overkill, lol. I almost feel bad for the plant ;D.

Segment 36: Few more places to crash, but you already knew that :p. It would only shave off a couple more seconds though.

Segment 37: Wow, really lucky on the green with the Psycho. I don't really have much to comment on this area because it was executed very well (and I think you and evil_ninja are close in time here, but yours might be a little better since you had less encounters). No better time to switch items than the end, I suppose.

Segment 38: The Flying Man did come in very handy I can tell. Getting him is definitely worth it in the future. Little slow in the Kraken area, but at least the one fight you had was very short. Normally it's better to pass all of them, but I know how hard that is when they don't cooperate. Well, 3 dragonites are all you needed for Ness's Nightmare, too. I'm sure it took a little while before he cooperated and didn't use lifeup at all?

Segment 39: Seriously, how lucky could you get in this segment, lol? Running away from 3 enemies on grey, and getting a green head on into another few guys. This place is a bitch, though, so you take what you can get, and this was a very good, but lucky, segment because of it.

Segment 40: It must've taken awhile to get this kind of luck here. I've always wondered, where are you suppose to hit the crystals to get green swirls? Good end to a good run. Both you and evil_ninja did very well here in the Past, too (that was actually evil_ninja's best segment of all of the whole run too). And don't you just love those Nuclear Reactor Robots?[/sarcasm]  Roll Eyes
__sdfg
2008-08-27 10:23:34 pm
D:
I guess everyone who'd been interested in the thread before got tired and quit. Undecided

Quote from Mickey_Mage:
Segment 26: Try not to get an enemy right outside the towns exit... I don't think it's ever happened to me that much, and if it did, they weren't in my way all that much. Very nice use of the tele-crash to get past the photographer. I never could figure out the angle to do that to skip him, and the way you did it didn't look all that hard either. It's really hard sometimes to avoid fighting in the first few rooms, so you don't have to minimize it too much, since it's a pain to keep restarting just to get the first room empty every time. Would it be better to get some more luck here so you wouldn't have to fight so many Petrified Guards, and in turn save some BBRs, or does it matter? Would tele-crashing only be helpful after the Pyramid, or would it help before as well?

I'm only concerned about the fights after the pyramid because they usually go poorly for me.  I guess I could try to save some BBRs for that portion, but I'd rather avoid the fights completely.  In the pyramid, I'd actually like to use more BBRs if I can since the only other way to kill the Guardian Hieroglyphs quickly is to dump a lot of PSI into them.  Paula's PP is more limited than Jeff's inventory.

Telecrashing might help before the pyramid, but I think I'd be better off restarting if I get an early fight.

Quote:
Does it take too long to manipulate luck outside of the Pyramid (on the other side)?

Only in the sense that I have to go through the whole pyramid every time I want to retry the south side of Scaraba.

Quote:
I guess getting the Fry Pan is useful (don't remember how much Paula physically attacks in later segments), but doesn't Jeff already take enough? I know you already addressed this issue, but it all depends on how hard it is to defeat enemies later on, since we already know there's no way you'll run out of money.

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, so I'll just say what I'm thinking here.  I got the fry pan for Paula because it's the most convenient place to get her a decent weapon.  I may not need to get it at all really... I should probably rewatch the later segments to see how often she actually bashes.  One potential use for it would be getting instant wins on green swirls in Milky Well, but I might as well try to manipulate that segment into one or two encounters anyway.  My problem with getting Jeff the Crusher beam isn't so much about the money as the fact that it looks stupid to buy him a weapon if he barely gets the chance to use it before getting a stronger one.

Quote:
Segment 28: Yeah, there were a few more places you could've used tele-crash. I didn't actually see too many problems with a majority of your crashes. Considering how slowly you walk in the deep anyway, as long as you go from one end to the other (and maybe a little farther if you can), it still saves time, even if it is like "a couple of feet". Besides, some of those short ones were to get away from enemies. If you saved any time at all, it was from fighting the ones you skipped.

I guess it doesn't look too bad overall.  I just think there's a lot of room for improvement if I practice more.

Quote:
Segment 28 part 2: I thought it was faster if you didn't talk to the woman at the desk in the museum, and just walked past her and pay that way?

Maybe.  I should probably check that.

Quote:
Segment 30: I think you were better off fighting that single enemy, than two, in the very beginning of this where you tried to manipulate luck on the rope. Fighting isn't all THAT hard in here, so fighting occasionally isn't horrible, if it's just one enemy. It was very lucky you ended up with no enemies in two of the dropdown hole rooms. That's hard to pull off.

Yeah, I agree about the first part.  The main reason for keeping this segment was that I got so lucky in the later parts of the cave, as you said.

Quote:
Segment 32: You need to practice Stonehenge a little more. It's never been all that hard for me to get green swirls off of most Starmen, and I would expect to see most fights with them to be, if you actually get a chance to hit one before other enemies hit you (I know you said you didn't want to restart that much, but being able to do this doesn't require a whole lot of luck if you're fast enough, and can determine well about where the starman will appear). It's best to try something like that at times where you know you'll have to fight a starman and something else. No point in doing that to a single starman, of course. Getting green throughout most of this place is necessary since the battles get significantly harder once you start fighting Starmen Supers.

I've never been very good at the Starman trick.  I had a couple other runs where it went a little better for me, but I ended up throwing them out in favor of this one since it had barely any fights in the first few rooms.  I probably could chop a couple minutes off if I did this segment properly.

As far as restarting goes, I'm planning on restarting every segment to death, even the ones where there doesn't seem to be anything going on.  If I'm gonna push the run under 5 hours, I can't be too lax about this stuff.

Quote:
Segment 34: About 1:50 (that's the easiest I can point to this) in the video, you didn't have to try to get rid of those guys; I don't think they would've attacked you... Other than that, Lumine Hall I thought went very well.

I ended up just walking around them anyway, if you're talking about the part I think you're talking about.  At least I had a very low Fobby rate.

Quote:
Segment 35: This segment is just too funny. Usually one of the hardest places to avoid fighting enemies, and you made it look easy because of that glitch; and Trillionage is just a walk in the park at this point. MBR to a boss this early in the game, now that's what I call overkill, lol. I almost feel bad for the plant ;D.

Agreed.  I'm excited about seeing if I can reproduce the glitch on the console.

Quote:
Segment 38: The Flying Man did come in very handy I can tell. Getting him is definitely worth it in the future. Little slow in the Kraken area, but at least the one fight you had was very short. Normally it's better to pass all of them, but I know how hard that is when they don't cooperate. Well, 3 dragonites are all you needed for Ness's Nightmare, too. I'm sure it took a little while before he cooperated and didn't use lifeup at all?

It took me a few tries.  I honestly put more effort into getting through Magicant than manipulating this fight.  With three Bags of Dragonite, the battle still ends pretty quickly even if he does get a Lifeup in.

Quote:
Segment 40: It must've taken awhile to get this kind of luck here. I've always wondered, where are you suppose to hit the crystals to get green swirls? Good end to a good run. Both you and evil_ninja did very well here in the Past, too (that was actually evil_ninja's best segment of all of the whole run too). And don't you just love those Nuclear Reactor Robots?[/sarcasm]  Roll Eyes

It's funny that you'd say that given that I thought this segment was really sloppy.  I only restarted if I got completely torn apart.  I remember getting fewer encounters here when I'd played it in the past, but it's been a few years, so I could be wrong.
connect4
2008-08-28 08:50:46 am
Insert text here later
I'll help ease Mickey's fears by saying that I've been watching this run.  It's a good starting plan at least, and I'm glad that you'll be doing more luck manipulation on console (which hopefully will be easier than some of the luck manipulation you had to face here!)  I'll make more comments when I think of them.
Mickey_Mage
Mickey_Mage
Edit history:
Mickey_Mage: 2008-08-28 10:14:37 am
2008-08-28 10:09:15 am
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
Quote from __sdfg:
I guess everyone who'd been interested in the thread before got tired and quit. Undecided


School might be getting in the way of some of them (not bothering me; of course, my schedule isn't as hectic, being my last year and all :P).

Quote from Mickey_Mage:
Segment 26: Try not to get an enemy right outside the towns exit... I don't think it's ever happened to me that much, and if it did, they weren't in my way all that much. Very nice use of the tele-crash to get past the photographer. I never could figure out the angle to do that to skip him, and the way you did it didn't look all that hard either. It's really hard sometimes to avoid fighting in the first few rooms, so you don't have to minimize it too much, since it's a pain to keep restarting just to get the first room empty every time. Would it be better to get some more luck here so you wouldn't have to fight so many Petrified Guards, and in turn save some BBRs, or does it matter? Would tele-crashing only be helpful after the Pyramid, or would it help before as well?

Quote:
I'm only concerned about the fights after the pyramid because they usually go poorly for me.  I guess I could try to save some BBRs for that portion, but I'd rather avoid the fights completely.  In the pyramid, I'd actually like to use more BBRs if I can since the only other way to kill the Guardian Hieroglyphs quickly is to dump a lot of PSI into them.  Paula's PP is more limited than Jeff's inventory.


Telecrashing might help before the pyramid, but I think I'd be better off restarting if I get an early fight.


I really can understand the BBRs against the Guardian Hieroglyphs since most of those are forced fights. If it was possible to manipulate it enough to not fight any Shattered men, then we would be in business. In the later rooms I'm sure it's hard to do this, but see what you can do anyway.

Quote from Mickey_Mage:
Does it take too long to manipulate luck outside of the Pyramid (on the other side)?


Quote:
Only in the sense that I have to go through the whole pyramid every time I want to retry the south side of Scaraba.


My point was, could you go back in the pyramid and back out to use the evasive tactics to save time on the south side of Scaraba by avoiding any initial battles right outside (I just can't remember if you're allowed to go back in or not, since I've never tried)?

Quote from Mickey_Mage:
I guess getting the Fry Pan is useful (don't remember how much Paula physically attacks in later segments), but doesn't Jeff already take enough? I know you already addressed this issue, but it all depends on how hard it is to defeat enemies later on, since we already know there's no way you'll run out of money.


Quote:
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, so I'll just say what I'm thinking here.  I got the fry pan for Paula because it's the most convenient place to get her a decent weapon.  I may not need to get it at all really... I should probably rewatch the later segments to see how often she actually bashes.  One potential use for it would be getting instant wins on green swirls in Milky Well, but I might as well try to manipulate that segment into one or two encounters anyway.  My problem with getting Jeff the Crusher beam isn't so much about the money as the fact that it looks stupid to buy him a weapon if he barely gets the chance to use it before getting a stronger one.


What I basically asked is if it was worth the time to get those weapons for both Paula and Jeff, and them actually being beneficial later on; but, you pretty much already answered that in your response.

Also, when I asked if Jeff already takes enough, what I meant was, does he really require anymore upgrades? How much more does he take with the previous weapon compared to this one?

Quote from Mickey_Mage:
Segment 34: About 1:50 (that's the easiest I can point to this) in the video, you didn't have to try to get rid of those guys; I don't think they would've attacked you... Other than that, Lumine Hall I thought went very well.


Quote:
I ended up just walking around them anyway, if you're talking about the part I think you're talking about.  At least I had a very low Fobby rate.


Yeah, you ended up walking around those two guys, but you lost time (maybe only 10) because you hesitated. It's probably better to take some risks (this includes other places in the game, too), if you understand the terrain well enough to where you know if an enemy can get around an object and attack you, or not.

Quote from Mickey_Mage:
Segment 40: It must've taken awhile to get this kind of luck here. I've always wondered, where are you suppose to hit the crystals to get green swirls? Good end to a good run. Both you and evil_ninja did very well here in the Past, too (that was actually evil_ninja's best segment of all of the whole run too). And don't you just love those Nuclear Reactor Robots?[/sarcasm]  Roll Eyes

Quote:
It's funny that you'd say that given that I thought this segment was really sloppy.  I only restarted if I got completely torn apart.  I remember getting fewer encounters here when I'd played it in the past, but it's been a few years, so I could be wrong.


I should have said that despite both yours and ninja's segments here being very good, a little more luck would help. The very beginning is probably more of a bitch to manipulate than most other places here (I know when I was trying for a low level playthrough of the game once, it took forever to get rid of enemies in the very beginning...). Besides, getting in a fight isn't the end of the world here all the time; because once you get out, you can easily get a green battle (if there are too many enemies to dodge) or bypass a group, assuming you have enough room to do so safely.
__sdfg
2008-08-28 11:56:04 am
D:
Quote from Mickey_Mage:
My point was, could you go back in the pyramid and back out to use the evasive tactics to save time on the south side of Scaraba by avoiding any initial battles right outside (I just can't remember if you're allowed to go back in or not, since I've never tried)?

I checked my backup copy of the save data from in Dungeon Man.  At that point, at least, it's possible to go back in the pyramid.  I can't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to do this while Poo is still with you.

Quote:
What I basically asked is if it was worth the time to get those weapons for both Paula and Jeff, and them actually being beneficial later on; but, you pretty much already answered that in your response.

Also, when I asked if Jeff already takes enough, what I meant was, does he really require anymore upgrades? How much more does he take with the previous weapon compared to this one?

You know, I must admit I didn't really consider that when making the run, which is kinda sad.  If the player's guide is right (heh), the Hyper beam adds 58 to Jeff's attack, the Crusher beam adds 72, and the Death ray adds 90.  This means Jeff will do 28 more damage with the Crusher beam than with the Hyper beam, on average.  At this stage of the game, that probably isn't worth it.  The Death ray will do 64 more damage and should be picked up.

Looking over my summaries of the segments after this, the only time I ever used Paula for bashing was when I fought the Evil Elemental.  The rest of the time, she was either using PSI or defending while Jeff shot something.  I think I can skip the fry pan (which is great, because it means Paula finishes the game without ever picking up a weapon).

Quote from Mickey_Mage:
Yeah, you ended up walking around those two guys, but you lost time (maybe only 10) because you hesitated. It's probably better to take some risks (this includes other places in the game, too), if you understand the terrain well enough to where you know if an enemy can get around an object and attack you, or not.

No argument here.

Also, I tested the museum-paying thing in Fourside.  I saved about half a second when I tried to go in without paying.  That's negligible compared to the rest of the run, but I think I'll do it anyway just because it's easier than manually talking to the teller.
Mickey_Mage
2008-08-28 05:17:10 pm
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
Wow, only a half a second difference for the museum, lol. Now we know :P.

I always found it easier to just walk past her myself (I wish you could actually get past her, that would be funny).
__sdfg
2008-09-08 12:00:32 pm
D:
My new computer came in today.  This means the run can potentially start in the near future.  I wouldn't expect to see anything completed for at least a couple months with school picking up, but hey, there's hope now.

Also, I did about 90% of a quasi-run on the actual console over the past week, just to see what would happen.  I've noted a few things:
  • I didn't need to buy as much equipment as I did in the emulated run.  For example, I had Jeff keep the Pop gun until the Fourside department store and I was just fine.  If I cut enough, I might be able to shave a minute of text and menus off the run time.
  • I was able to reproduce the enemies-running-away glitch in Milky Well.
  • While I didn't see so many enemies in the monkey cave, I still did get a lot in the Winters cave on the way to Stonehenge.  I guess my memory of past play-throughs was fuzzier than I thought.
  • I don't know if this has been noted before or not, but you can skip the invisible man's dialogue in Moonside by walking along the bottom wall of the hotel room.  None of his other lines trigger if you bypass the first set of dialogue, so you can proceed normally after that.  This saves very little time, but it makes the run look a lot smoother.
Floogal
2008-09-08 03:43:32 pm
I'm couldn't quite find what the "run glitch" in Milky Well you're talking about is, but could it be explained by this:

<quote from Nitrodon, hacker at starmen.net>
[...]enemies will run away from you under the following circumstances:

- Some event flag is set (because a sanctuary boss was killed): always
- Sum of your levels > enemy's level*10: always
- Sum of your levels > enemy's level*8: 75%
- Sum of your levels > enemy's level*6: 50%
<end-quote>

By returning to Milky Well so late in the game, it's likely your party-level-sum is high enough to provoke some of the enemies to run from you.  You'll need to check PK Hack to see the level of each enemy.
Mickey_Mage
2008-09-08 05:06:26 pm
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
Quote from __sdfg:
My new computer came in today.  This means the run can potentially start in the near future.  I wouldn't expect to see anything completed for at least a couple months with school picking up, but hey, there's hope now.

Also, I did about 90% of a quasi-run on the actual console over the past week, just to see what would happen.  I've noted a few things:
  • I didn't need to buy as much equipment as I did in the emulated run.  For example, I had Jeff keep the Pop gun until the Fourside department store


Yeah, it helps with more luck to not get as many weapons, even though having a little above the minimum is still enough to beat this game. Do you think that Ness is pretty much the only one that needs the most weapon upgrades in this run? Also, at what point would you say that you could almost completely stop buying weapons all together (or wait for close to the most powerful before obtaining)?

Quote:
  • While I didn't see so many enemies in the monkey cave, I still did get a lot in the Winters cave on the way to Stonehenge.  I guess my memory of past play-throughs was fuzzier than I thought.


I think you normally get a lot of enemies in that cave the second time around anyway. I just couldn't understand the massive amount of enemies in the Monkey cave...

Quote:
  • I don't know if this has been noted before or not, but you can skip the invisible man's dialogue in Moonside by walking along the bottom wall of the hotel room.  None of his other lines trigger if you bypass the first set of dialogue, so you can proceed normally after that.  This saves very little time, but it makes the run look a lot smoother.


Though a small amount of time is saved, it's much less annoying, now... The TAS didn't even skip that text, did they?
__sdfg
2008-09-08 08:38:34 pm
D:
Quote from Floogal:
I'm couldn't quite find what the "run glitch" in Milky Well you're talking about is, but could it be explained by this:

<quote from Nitrodon, hacker at starmen.net>
[...]enemies will run away from you under the following circumstances:

- Some event flag is set (because a sanctuary boss was killed): always
- Sum of your levels > enemy's level*10: always
- Sum of your levels > enemy's level*8: 75%
- Sum of your levels > enemy's level*6: 50%
<end-quote>

By returning to Milky Well so late in the game, it's likely your party-level-sum is high enough to provoke some of the enemies to run from you.  You'll need to check PK Hack to see the level of each enemy.

That would explain the behavior I'm seeing.  I hope that wasn't posted earlier in the thread, or I'm going to feel reallly stupid.

Quote from Mickey_Mage:
Yeah, it helps with more luck to not get as many weapons, even though having a little above the minimum is still enough to beat this game. Do you think that Ness is pretty much the only one that needs the most weapon upgrades in this run? Also, at what point would you say that you could almost completely stop buying weapons all together (or wait for close to the most powerful before obtaining)?

I wouldn't say there's any specific point where you can stop buying stuff.  Mostly, I went back and looked for places where I wasn't using exclusively PSI, then came up with this:

Ness -
  • Cracked bat (lets you out of the house at the very beginning)
  • Tee ball bat (makes Onett doable)
  • Sand lot bat (speeds Happy Happy Village)
  • Big league bat (for occasional bashing around the pyramid and in Stonehenge)
  • Magicant bat (because avoiding fights near the spire in Magicant is pretty much impossible)


Jeff -
  • Pop gun (makes the fights in Winters winnable)
  • Hyper beam (lets you to instakill the Mole Playing Rough near the monkey cave; unused otherwise)
  • Death ray (since it's easy to get and it lets Jeff do more cleanup damage if Fire/Freeze doesn't finish the job)


Also, I skipped the item-buying in Saturn Valley since it only got me 5 defense per character, and I passed on a couple not-completely-necessary grabs like the Rain pendant and Talisman ribbon.

Quote:
Quote:
  • I don't know if this has been noted before or not, but you can skip the invisible man's dialogue in Moonside by walking along the bottom wall of the hotel room.  None of his other lines trigger if you bypass the first set of dialogue, so you can proceed normally after that.  This saves very little time, but it makes the run look a lot smoother.

Though a small amount of time is saved, it's much less annoying, now... The TAS didn't even skip that text, did they?

Nope.  I'd actually assumed that it was unskippable because it was still in the TAS.  Now we know.
Guardian Garr
2008-09-12 04:22:13 am
Well, I was wondering if anyone knew this yet. I think it should be added to the run if it helps at all.

Mickey_Mage
Mickey_Mage
Edit history:
Mickey_Mage: 2008-09-12 08:05:51 am
2008-09-12 05:18:59 am
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
We knew (and I actually mentioned something about it if you read back), but it's too hard of a wall glitch to pull off, especially that far into a segment. Peaceful Rest Valley is not only long, but a hard area to manipulate luck in.

I have tested that particular wall glitch before (back when the wall glitch was first discovered last year), and it is much harder to pull off than the one in Mondo Mole cave. The TAS just makes it look easy, but it's not, trust me. I was able to pull off the one in the cave a lot faster than that one (within minutes to pull off the cave wall glitch, hours to pull off that one in the video)...
Guardian Garr
2008-09-12 12:10:19 pm
Quote from Mickey_Mage:
We knew (and I actually mentioned something about it if you read back), but it's too hard of a wall glitch to pull off, especially that far into a segment. Peaceful Rest Valley is not only long, but a hard area to manipulate luck in.

I have tested that particular wall glitch before (back when the wall glitch was first discovered last year), and it is much harder to pull off than the one in Mondo Mole cave. The TAS just makes it look easy, but it's not, trust me. I was able to pull off the one in the cave a lot faster than that one (within minutes to pull off the cave wall glitch, hours to pull off that one in the video)...


Well, alrighty. Not sure if I can help other than that. Have you been using the Rock Candy?
Mickey_Mage
2008-09-12 12:39:48 pm
Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time
I think those are too far out of the way to get, and it's easier to just manipulate luck to get as little fights as possible, and use Multi Bottle Rockets on most of the bosses (the ones you can once you can buy MBRs).
Guardian Garr
2008-09-12 12:43:26 pm
How close is the closest one? Depending on how much you are allowed to abuse it, I am sure you can kill things much quicker if you can use it a few times.
__sdfg
2008-09-12 01:33:05 pm
D:
None of the Rock candy gift boxes are really out-of-the way.  You walk right by one of them in Pink Cloud on the way to Thunder and Storm.  The other two are in Deep Darkness and Lumine Hall, both fairly close to where the route passes.

The reason I haven't been worried about getting them is that I don't think they're very helpful.  AFAIK, the only way a Rock candy can help you do more damage is if it increases Jeff's speed and he then fires some kind of Bottle rocket.  They can't increase your strength and the damage done by PSI attacks is fixed.  The only practical application I can see for Rock candy would be to completely blow out someone's HP and PP, so you can avoid recovering later.  However, I think you'd lose more time buying Sugar packets and running the Rock candy glitch in battle than you'd be able to make back up.