3DS Capture Device [First post updated with new forum link]

2011-04-17 07:36:04 pm

Leftward punch go!

Rumors are flying about the successor to the Wii, but one rumor particularly intrigues me: purported features of the controller include a six-inch HD touch screen and a front-facing camera, among other things. If these rumors turn out to be true, I don't think it's outlandish to believe that whatever this console is, it may have a (3)DS(i) equivalent of the Game Boy Player.

YamiHoshi.nl

2011-04-18 05:05:17 am

Visit us!

This sounds very overrated, the 6 inch HD Touch Screen with Front-Facing Camera, as a controller for a console.
If that was true, we would pay 150 Euro's per controller, instead of 40, and the console would become 400 Euro's, instead of 250.
The idea about a 3DS Player is not a bad idea, though.

Ste

2011-04-20 12:23:58 am

Quote from gia:

Quote from Ste:

...

Cool to be inspiration lol. You are against the clock here to get a good grade, so I'm not trying to change your current plans. Still, if you notice what I wanted/still want is perfect 1:1 recording, not lossy recording (which is much better than nothing so keep on). I am a good programmer but totally suck at EE, are you great at it? would it be possible to have your device connect to the computer through USB 3 if you had a programmer to assist you with the logic and the program to record? That's assuming you aren't great at programming yourself.

To answer your questions:
This is my first attempt at digital design using an HDL (Verilog). A primary goal is to learn how to work with video signals using FPGAs and ASICs. So I guess I'm not that good at it in general, but I understand the video stuff pretty well. There are tons of people out in the world who can do a project like this faster and better, but we're stuck with a n00b like me.
Yes, it would be possible to mimic Neal Tew's project and send the video out through the USB port on the dev board. However, I never worked with asynchronous serial communications before. Like you said, drivers and software will be needed if the goal is connection to a PC. I'm pretty decent at lower level programming like C and various assembly, but I've never written PC drivers before.

Now, my opinion:
What you propose doesn't seem necessary since a perfect recording can be achieved via the HDMI output along with an HDMI capture device. Hence, I don't see the point in putting extra time and effort to create a proprietary USB capture method. Since this project gives the end-user access to the actual video signal, he/she can then decide what to do with it. I dunno, that's just how I see it.

[quote="gia"][quote="Ste"]...[/quote]

Cool to be inspiration lol. You are against the clock here to get a good grade, so I'm not trying to change your current plans. Still, if you notice what I wanted/still want is perfect 1:1 recording, not lossy recording (which is much better than nothing so keep on). I am a good programmer but totally suck at EE, are you great at it? would it be possible to have your device connect to the computer through USB 3 if you had a programmer to assist you with the logic and the program to record? That's assuming you aren't great at programming yourself.[/quote]
To answer your questions:
This is my first attempt at digital design using an HDL (Verilog).  A primary goal is to learn how to work with video signals using FPGAs and ASICs.  So I guess I'm not that good at it in general, but I understand the video stuff pretty well.  There are tons of people out in the world who can do a project like this faster and better, but we're stuck with a n00b like me.
Yes, it would be possible to mimic Neal Tew's project and send the video out through the USB port on the dev board.  However, I never worked with asynchronous serial communications before.  Like you said, drivers and software will be needed if the goal is connection to a PC.  I'm pretty decent at lower level programming like C and various assembly, but I've never written PC drivers before.

Now, my opinion:
What you propose doesn't seem necessary since a perfect recording can be achieved via the HDMI output along with an HDMI capture device.  Hence, I don't see the point in putting extra time and effort to create a proprietary USB capture method.  Since this project gives the end-user access to the actual video signal, he/she can then decide what to do with it.  I dunno, that's just how I see it.

gia

Edit history:

gia: 2011-04-20 01:11:44 pm

2011-04-20 01:11:14 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

what hdmi output? yours? or do you mean the nds outputs hdmi (I didnt know, good programmer, not good at EE/video :P)

Ste

2011-04-20 02:36:50 pm

Yeah, this is from the description of the first video I posted:

Quote:

Our desired feature set includes:
1.) 16-bit color
2.) Both screens simultaneously with various mappings
3.) Optional resize/upscale switch
3.) 640x480x60Hz VGA, 480i/p YPbPr, 480p HDMI
4.) Directly powered from the DS with minimal battery drain

gia

Edit history:

gia: 2011-04-20 06:56:26 pm

gia: 2011-04-20 06:55:15 pm

2011-04-20 06:54:28 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

ha awesome must have got confused when reading that line, I'll need a capture device for it but it will be useful for other things

Ste

2011-04-20 07:27:46 pm

Quote from gia:

ha awesome must have got confused when reading that line, I'll need a capture device for it but it will be useful for other things

Haha, don't worry. You're not the first person to be confused by that awfully long description.

YamiHoshi.nl

2011-04-26 07:21:45 am

Visit us!

I've been asking the Jumbotron Guy a couple of questions, and I promised to not tell anyone about that.
He also send me a photo of his project, and I can say, he's most likely going to aim on the gaming public, unlike the DS Capture Device.
It's a totally different project now, and it looks awesome.
I bet that SDA will allow people to use that.

It can take up a couple of months before it's close to finished.

Sir VG

2011-04-26 08:23:39 am

Fucking Weeaboo

As long as it's affordable, produces good quality, is easy to use...I'm all for it. Keep us up to date.

YamiHoshi.nl

2011-04-26 08:29:34 am

Visit us!

It looks very affordable, and easy.
About the quality, it's hard to see on a photo.

Greenalink

2011-04-26 08:54:11 am

DS Dictator

What Sir VG said, sounds interesting.
Oh DSreview2 (Ste I think) didn't mention it on here but has added 2 new videos. One of them is similar to the previous one but now with much better colours and the other one is a dual screen video with the 'DS gap' of Contra 4.

YamiHoshi.nl

Edit history:

YamiHoshi.nl: 2011-04-26 08:58:21 am

2011-04-26 08:57:34 am

Visit us!

Now I see the DS ReView is real, it's looking great now!

Ste

2011-04-27 12:17:14 am

Our school's Senior Design Expo was today (04/26/2011). We had the DS ReView set up and hooked into a 37" LCD TV. It was a huge draw. Kids who came with their parents kept wanting to come back to our station. At one point, someone was hogging the system for a good 30 minutes before we told him that other people behind him wanted to play. One of the reasons for the project is to allow audiences to view someone playing a DS game, which was well demonstrated by our exhibit. Also, I just realized today how much fun it is to watch people screw up while playing New Super Mario Bros.

Anyway, not sure how much more work is going to be put into the DS ReView. Once school is over (in a few weeks), I'll be traveling for a couple months. Sounds like Neal Tew (the Jumbotron guy) has got something neat coming down the pipe, so the DS ReView might not be needed anymore. When I come back, I'll probably be working on different projects.

YamiHoshi.nl

2011-04-27 02:12:42 am

Visit us!

Don't need to give up, as Neal will still need to have a couple of months before finishing, while you already have a nearly final product.
This would change SDA's policies of making DS Speedruns (even though I only signed up here for just this thread), since I'm one of the only people around here that has a possibility to record DS games without Camera and without Emulator.
Even if Neal will start selling his Capture Add-On in the future, I think the ReView would be a great project as well.

YamiHoshi.nl

Edit history:

YamiHoshi.nl: 2011-04-27 06:56:55 am

2011-04-27 06:56:13 am

Visit us!

Okay then, since I already said this on DSHack Forums by mistake:
Neal Tew's 3DS Mod has 2 HDMI ports for use on 2 TV's, and he's planning to make one to work for use on 1 TV, and display both screens at the same time.
He also wants to make 3D to work for 3D TV's, but he's not sure that it's possible, so he'll save this for later.
Aside of the HDMI ports, it also has 1 USB port, for use on PC's, in the same matter as YH-NITRO-CAPTURE is using .

Ste

2011-04-27 03:43:08 pm

Not sure if this helps, but my team and I discussed (back during last semester) possible ways to make the installation of such a device easy for the typical consumer. The best idea we had was to have a company manufacture a ribbon cable splitter. On the original DS, the ribbon cable connector (for the top screen) has all the necessary signals. So all that someone has to do is open the DS, install the splitter, hook the extra ribbon cable to the video output device (mounted on the back of the system), and then close the DS. The ribbon cable is so thin that the DS casing could still close while the cable hangs off the case and connects into the output device. The problem is finding a company that can create a splitter for such a proprietary connector. It probably can only be done in mass quantities as well. When looking at pics of the 3DS motherboard, it also has a ribbon cable on top near the edge of the casing. If that connector is for an LCD screen, then maybe the same approach can be used on the 3DS.

Not sure if this helps, but my team and I discussed (back during last semester) possible ways to make the installation of such a device easy for the typical consumer.  The best idea we had was to have a company manufacture a ribbon cable splitter.  On the original DS, the ribbon cable connector (for the top screen) has all the necessary signals.  So all that someone has to do is open the DS, install the splitter, hook the extra ribbon cable to the video output device (mounted on the back of the system), and then close the DS.  The ribbon cable is so thin that the DS casing could still close while the cable hangs off the case and connects into the output device.  The problem is finding a company that can create a splitter for such a proprietary connector.  It probably can only be done in mass quantities as well.  When looking at pics of the 3DS motherboard, it also has a ribbon cable on top near the edge of the casing.  If that connector is for an LCD screen, then maybe the same approach can be used on the 3DS.

Greenalink

2011-05-01 09:58:11 am

DS Dictator

Quote:

he's planning to make one to work for use on 1 TV, and display both screens at the same time

&

Quote:

wants to make 3D to work for 3D TV's,

If the 3DS system's 3D is eventually going to work on a 3D TV then it would work well when showing only the 3D top screen. Having the both screens with the 3D active will mess up the touch screen... probably. It's never been tested out really what happens when a 3D supported source (top screen in 3D) mixes up with a 2D supported source (touch screen).

The most notable use of having the 3DS system's 3D is being the 'watcher' on Super Street Fighter IV 3D. It's also going to be notable for using Super Monkey Ball 3D with Gyro Controls.

I think it would be best to sort out the direct 3D support later, not many people have 3D TVs and everyone doesn't need to wear 3D specs to see the 3D effect (and 2D is still watchable anyways).

Would the new capture device have good protective casing (eletronics/motherboards in a box)? I haven't been a huge fan of leaving it out 'naked' and let dust mess up the electronics.

[quote]he's planning to make one to work for use on 1 TV, and [b]display both screens at the same time[/b][/quote] &
[quote]wants to make 3D to work for 3D TV's,[/quote]

If the 3DS system's 3D is eventually going to work on a 3D TV then it would work well when showing only the 3D top screen. Having the both screens with the 3D active will mess up the touch screen... probably. It's never been tested out really what happens when a 3D supported source (top screen in 3D) mixes up with a 2D supported source (touch screen).

The most notable use of having the 3DS system's 3D is being the 'watcher' on Super Street Fighter IV 3D. It's also going to be notable for using Super Monkey Ball 3D with Gyro Controls.

I think it would be best to sort out the direct 3D support later, not many people have 3D TVs and everyone doesn't need to wear 3D specs to see the 3D effect (and 2D is still watchable anyways).

Would the new capture device have good protective casing (eletronics/motherboards in a box)? I haven't been a huge fan of leaving it out 'naked' and let dust mess up the electronics.

YamiHoshi.nl

2011-05-01 03:41:55 pm

Visit us!

He said that he doesn't know if the 3D will work on his Capture Add-On.
The Add-On is simply some kind of a sticker with 2 HDMI ports and 1 micro USB port on it, so there are no motherboards and such naked.

thieves like us

Edit history:

thieves like us: 2011-05-17 06:38:29 pm

2011-05-17 09:47:14 am

hi all,
I've been watching this thread for quite some time with interest (and I own one of the capture kits which all fits neatly into the case of the original ds system at the expense of the game boy advance slot header) but allows direct grabs and video capture using hypercam. I've been able to successfully capture videos at 60fps, but the file sizes are huge.

after receiving the device, I thought that although it was nice that everything was neatly packaged inside, I would still like to be able to capture game boy advance titles, so after some research to find the site that sells the chameleon kits, I ordered and just received a few of them (but haven't started working on them yet).

additionally, I managed to find a japanese thread of the original creator (pipin) and it appears that he managed to get the chameleon usb up and running on a DSi system. I'll post the link tonight (once I'm back home to find it), but it looks like a ton of work (42 leads and he was using 38AWG wire), which I have no idea on where to source here in the states.

edit: (link to pipin's blog added)
http://pipin.blog.eonet.jp/default/cat6442277/index.html

hi all,
I've been watching this thread for quite some time with interest (and I own one of the capture kits which all fits neatly into the case of the original ds system at the expense of the game boy advance slot header) but allows direct grabs and video capture using hypercam. I've been able to successfully capture videos at 60fps, but the file sizes are huge.

after receiving the device, I thought that although it was nice that everything was neatly packaged inside, I would still like to be able to capture game boy advance titles, so after some research to find the site that sells the chameleon kits, I ordered and just received a few of them (but haven't started working on them yet).

additionally, I managed to find a japanese thread of the original creator (pipin) and it appears that he managed to get the chameleon usb up and running on a DSi system. I'll post the link tonight (once I'm back home to find it), but it looks like a ton of work (42 leads and he was using 38AWG wire), which I have no idea on where to source here in the states.

edit: (link to pipin's blog added)
http://pipin.blog.eonet.jp/default/cat6442277/index.html

Sir VG

2011-05-17 11:23:59 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Awesome find! Now if some pinouts can be figured out for the buttons (should be hard, since I figured out most of what was needed for the DS Phat), we can really have something awesome going here. I'll see what I can figure out later.

Sir VG

2011-05-17 11:51:18 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Based upon the pinouts on the Phat and the Lite, here's the locations of the D-Pad, Start, Select, ABXYLR buttons. The JPG and the ZIP are the same thing, only the JPG is resized 50% smaller then the original (in the ZIP file). Just so the forum doesn't explode from the awesomeness that is MSPaint. Tongue

Attachments:

dsi_mainboard_back_resize.jpg

dsi_mainboard_back.zip

YamiHoshi.nl

2011-05-18 07:56:47 am

Visit us!

Really?
TWL clearly means DSi.

thieves like us

Edit history:

thieves like us: 2011-05-18 08:37:22 am

thieves like us: 2011-05-18 08:35:36 am

thieves like us: 2011-05-18 08:35:19 am

thieves like us: 2011-05-18 08:33:58 am

2011-05-18 08:33:46 am

yamihoshi.nl:
yes, really Smiley

did you not view pipin's blog page? (I posted the link above). he has plenty of images showing the DSi motherboard all wired up to a chameleon usb project board (like the one shown here).

YamiHoshi.nl

Edit history:

YamiHoshi.nl: 2011-05-19 03:00:35 am

2011-05-19 02:59:39 am

Visit us!

Well, since Neal didn't remove his photo from the internet, I think it's alright to publish it now.

The photo is hosted on his site directly, so if he removes it, it means that it was not okay, lol.

>>thieves like us
Yes, I saw that blog.

Sir VG

2011-05-19 04:18:45 am

Fucking Weeaboo

All this stuff is nice. Now we just need to get somebody to make it for us. The one from the Jumbotron blog is awesome, since it's really clean and shouldn't interfere much with normal play. Mini USB-b and 2 HDMI ports? Interesting.