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AquaTiger
2006-10-28 11:40:39 pm
Never give up!
Okay, I have another question, since I spent 2 hours so far today on this next test and only came close to making progress (still currently at 12 minutes within the Villager/Talisman gate room) two times out of 30+.

Should I go with Villager first or Talisman first?

I need to visit both regardless, first for their boss monsters (I could conceivably cut out Golem, but I'm not looking forward to that idea), and second for extra monsters I need to get from their gates.

As another refresher, here's what I need to get from Villager:
-Stubsuck
-Gremlin
-Dragon (boss monster)

What I need to get from Talisman:
-Spooky
-Golem (boss monster - may look into cutting him out as he is not in any breeding cycles)

And finally, a choice I can make:
-Get ArmyAnt in Talisman
OR
-Get GoHopper in Villager

The reason I've considered Talisman first is because the monsters there have higher ATK than the monsters in Villager, which may very well cut rounds off the Dragon fight.
stanski
2006-10-29 11:22:49 am
wise fwom yo gwave
From what I remember of the game, and what I've played from picking it up slightly again, I'd go to the talisman first.
AquaTiger
AquaTiger
Edit history:
AquaTiger: 2006-11-03 08:45:56 pm
2006-10-29 01:16:29 pm
Never give up!
It's settled, then.  I go to Talisman first.

In trying to decide between getting ArmyAnt and getting GoHopper, I've tried examining stats and resistances (as far as skills, ArmyAnt's desirable one is NapAttack and GoHopper's desirable one is RobMagic).  Here's what I've determined: Statwise, ArmyAnt is only superior in ATK and DEF.  Their MP scores match and ArmyAnt is inferior everywhere else.  ArmyAnt even takes longer to level than GoHopper.

Also, their resistances match exactly, and very few powerful monsters this early resist FireAir, unfortunately.

I think I'll stick with GoHopper.  And as a test, I plan on avoiding Golem this time around - meaning the only Talisman monster I get is Spooky (who still has better ATK than Dracky does).  If I get admirable results without going after Golem specifically, it will stay that way.

Anyway, knowing this, here's my current plan for segmenting:

-Segment 1: Prologue (up to just outside Beginning Gate)
-Segment 2: Beginning Gate (get Dracky, Anteater, Healer)
-Segment 3: G-class (save just outside Talisman)
-Segment 4: Gate of Talisman (get Spooky and then warp out)
-Segment 5: Gate of Villager (get Dragon)
-Segment 6: F-class (use Healer, Spooky, Dragon)
-Segment 7: Gate of Villager (get Stubsuck and either Gremlin or GoHopper)
-Segment 8: Gate of Villager (get whichever monster you skipped last time)
-Segment 9: Gate of Bewilder (get Demonite)
-Segment 10: Gate of Bewilder (level GoHopper and Healer to 10) and breed GiantSlug.  Hatch GiantSlug too - its gender is not important
-Segment 11: Gate of Bewilder (level up GiantSlug and either Spooky or Gremlin to a decent level)
-Segment 12: E-class (use GiantSlug, Dragon, and either Spooky or Gremlin)
-Segment 13: Gate of Bravery (get BeanMan and 1EyeClown and then get out)
-Segment 14: Gate of Bravery (level Stubsuck and Demonite to 10) and breed Gulpple.  If I haven't gotten the SkyDragon egg yet, get it now.
-Segment 15: Gate of Bravery (level Gremlin and BeanMan to 10) and breed Orc.  Hatch Orc as well - don't worry about its gender.
-Segment 16: Gate of Bravery (level 1EyeClown and Spooky to 10) and breed MedusaEye.  Also hatch Gulpple, making sure it is female.  In a practice attempt of this segment, check SkyDragon's gender as well and make note of it, since monster genders seem set when the egg is produced.
-Segment 17: Gate of Bravery (level Dragon and Orc to an acceptable level.  Dragon MUST be at least level 10 here)
-Segment 18: D-class (use Dragon, Orc, and GiantSlug)
-Segment 19: Gate of Anger (level Gulpple to 10) and breed Andreal.  Hatch Andreal and MedusaEye - their genders are unimportant as long as they're opposites
-Segment 20: Gate of Anger (level Andreal and MedusaEye to 10) and breed Orochi.  Hatch it too - if its gender will wind up the same as the SkyDragon, you'll want to change the SkyDragon's gender, as it's cheaper that way.
-Segment 21: Gate of Anger (level Orochi and Orc until they're strong enough to handle B-class)
-Segment 22: Gate of Anger (defeat BattleRex.  Also make sure to clear out all seven of the accessible eggs for good experience)
-Segment 23: B-class (use GiantSlug, Orochi, and Orc)
-Segment 24: Gate of Temptation (get sellable items to earn money until you have over 10K.  Must brute-force enough luck for this)
-Segment 25: Gate of Temptation (level main team until it can handle S-class)
-Segment 26: S-class (same team as B-class)
-Segment 27: Gate of Reflection (get Lizardman - make sure its gender is opposite that of Orc) and breed Lionex.  Hatch SkyDragon, making sure its gender is opposite that of Orochi
-Segment 28: Gate of Reflection (level SkyDragon to 20) and breed Divinegon.  Hatch both Divinegon and Lionex - their genders are unimportant at this point.
-Segment 29: Gate of Reflection (level Lionex until he has GigaSlash)
-Segment 30: Gate of Reflection (level Divinegon to at least 30 - if you're on track for BigBang, go ahead and get that many levels)
-Segment 31: Gate of Reflection (beat Durran)
-Segment 32: Starry Night Tournament
AquaTiger
AquaTiger
Edit history:
AquaTiger: 2006-11-06 01:06:50 am
2006-11-03 07:53:00 pm
Never give up!
Sorry!  I've just been away from this a whole week due to other things in gaming (Dragon Quest VIII and Castlevania: Curse of Darkness coming to mind).

However, I shall make note of some things.  As for notes after the status, the past notes will be removed after there's six more recent notes (that's the recent note and five past notes).

1a) If I do very well in the stuff for segment 2 in terms of luck, I may attempt to merge it with segment 3 on the spot.  We'll see.

1b) Ditto for segments 5 and 6.

1c) MAYBE segments 31 and 32 as well.  We'll see.

2) Finding time to record everything here might be tricky.  Suffice to say I will NOT be doing direct capture.  It'd probably be through VHS (in a low-action game like this, I see VHS recording as reasonable enough).

3) Potential worst segments: Segment 7 (two out of Stubsuck, Gremlin, and GoHopper), Segment 13 (need both BeanMan AND 1EyeClown).  Will keep people posted.

4) Segment 24 will probably need to be split into 2 parts to guarantee timeliness.

Current status: At 3 hours and 6 minutes, deciding I need to have much higher levels to survive S-class.

Recent Note: I think I'm going to need everyone on my team to be level 30 or so before I can handle S-class.  To that end, so that I won't be forced to share experience, I'm getting a ShinyHarp.

Past Note 1: I need Orochi to have Scorching or I can't beat B-class.  By contrast, he only needs BlazeAir for C-class as long as Orc has Firebane by then.  Therefore, I think I'm going to skip out on levelling before Anger, and just rush through immediately after getting Orochi.  I'm going to spend my levelling time in Wisdom.  Also, I don't think I need to level Orc from the time it learns Firebane until B-class is done.

Past Note 2: The heritages of Orochi and Orc give me some skills I didn't expect them to have - Orc learns MapMagic, which means I won't have to get a BeastTail at all.  Orochi learns Sap and PoisonGas - the first lowers enemy defense, the second causes the enemy to lose HP.  All three of the mentioned skills can be put to some serious use.

Past Note 3:  Having an Orc with Firebal was beyond helpful - it was vital.  Especially since Orc was the last one standing in D-class.  It seems Orc is nearly immune to RogueNite's EvilSlash (although I think that's just my luck - there's no specific immunity category for EvilSlash.  Another theory is that high INT makes dodging EvilSlash easier, as Orc way outperforms GiantSlug and Dragon in that category).  What I know for sure is that it has the HP to survive numerous SquallHits from the two MadCats in the last D-class fight.

Past Note 4: It seems monsters left in the farm earn about 6% of the total experience gained by the monsters in the main party.  Maybe that Stubsuck visit was worth it after all for some of the low-level monsters.

Past Note 5: I did use the Stubsuck group at the end of Bewilder, but it wasn't necessary - I probably will need it in the real run though.  Oddly enough, Dragon learned BlazeAir during this, which ought to make E-class a breeze (and I think I'm going to strive for that from now on).  I'm trying it with Dragon, Gremlin, and GiantSlug (Gremlin being in place of Golem in this situation).
AquaTiger
AquaTiger
Edit history:
AquaTiger: 2006-11-08 01:17:20 am
2006-11-07 07:56:05 pm
Never give up!
Okay, I've got some free time tonight, so I'm going to try more with this game and see if I can get my characters pumped up enough for S-class.  Note that all time updates will be in the post before this one - unless this topic moves to a fifth page, in which case I'll list times at the top of that.

If I can't do it with each party member at level 30 or so, I plan on going back to the drawing board.  Level 30 is the farthest I'd ever go for beating S-class, as I don't see how higher levels than that are absolutely necessary.

Things to note for next time:
-Divinegon is an absolute must in my strategy.  However, I'm not breeding it until after Reflection, relying on Orochi from Anger until Reflection and probably Dragon before then.
-Getting some monster with Whistle is absolutely required.
-Having two monsters with healing spells is important, but I don't see three healers being necessary.

Possible considerations:
-Maybe I could find different breeding combinations for the Gulpple and the MedusaEye?  Preferably ones that give monsters with more MP.
-Maybe I should breed the GiantSlug I get from GoHopper and Healer with the BattleRex from Anger?  In order to do this, I'd need GiantSlug to be level 20 by then, and it'd also have to be male.  Since I don't foresee GiantSlug getting HealUs in time (it hasn't yet in my current game and it's level 28), I'll just have to take that loss as normal.
-Should I delay most of the monster breeding until after Anger and insist on completing B-class first?  I could raise monsters to level 20 and get better stats that way.  On the other hand, I'd be forced into using an inferior monster class for a longer time.  (The only breed I'd FORCE before Anger is GoHopper and Healer - I can't level quickly enough without a Whistle user and I think GiantSlug is the fastest way to get that skill.)
-Maybe I should have my third monster be something other than Lionex?  I could get a monster with higher MP and some better skills.  Maybe I should breed up to get MetalDrak here - then find a SpotKing and get MetalKing.  THERE'S a high-MP, high-resistance monster right there.  (Yes, I know its HP suffers.  I'll solve that problem later.)

Edit: Here's the next breeding strategy I'm considering (with minimum monster levels mentioned in parentheses before the actual listing - if there are none mentioned, the minimum is the absolute minimum of 10):

Monster 1:
-Before beating E-class, breed a female GoHopper from the Gate of Villager with the male Healer from the Beginning Gate to get GiantSlug.  Make sure GiantSlug is male.
-(level 20) After beating Anger, breed the female BattleRex earned from Anger with the GiantSlug to get FairyDrak.

Monster 2:
-Before beating the Gate of Anger, breed a female CatFly from Anger with the FangSlime at the end of the Gate of Peace to get Unicorn.  Make sure the Unicorn is female.
-Also before beating Anger, breed a 1EyeClown from the Gate of Bravery with a Putrepup from Anger to get MedusaEye.
-(level 20) Between beating Anger and beating B-class, breed the Dragon from Villager with the Unicorn to get GreatDrak.
-(level 20 - make sure to learn Vivify) Between beating B-class and beating S-class, breed the GreatDrak with the MedusaEye to get Orochi.
-(level 30 - make sure Vivify is on Orochi's skill list) Between beating S-class and beating the Gate of Reflection, breed the SkyDragon you got from the farm with the Orochi to get Divinegon.

Monster 3:
-(consider level 20) Before beating Anger, breed an Anteater from the Beginning Gate with a Gremlin from Villager to get Grizzly.  Optionally, instead of Gremlin, I can use the Golem from the Gate of Talisman.
-(level 20) After beating Anger, breed a SabreMan from Bravery with the Grizzly to get Roboster.  Make sure Roboster is female.
-(level 30) At any time before beating the Gate of Reflection, breed the Roboster with the male MadCat from the Gate of Memories to get KingLeo (AKA Keeleon from Dragon Warrior 4, I believe).

I know someone has something to say, so I'll let them say it.

Also note: From here on out, in order to make sure my game cart does not suffer much wear and tear, I will be moving all practice sessions to an emulator with savestates and fast-forward, using a pool of five or six savestates resembling the save points in my game.  With this system in place, I can make restarting a segment much less tedious (hitting one key is easier than hitting the soft reset and saves a lot of down time) and skip through parts of the game where I have no control (note that the game timer keeps up with fast-forward, so my time remains fairly accurate).  It's really a means to save me loads of frustration.
stanski
stanski
Edit history:
stanski: 2006-11-08 09:47:41 am
2006-11-08 09:45:52 am
wise fwom yo gwave
Ok, just a few quick comments after looking over your comments on the run.

I really don't like the fairydrak as your option. Wouldn't it be worthwhile to do something like roguenite (dunno how you'd get him, but his breed is pretty simple)= madknight (same problem) with battlerex= coatal

The kink in the line of course is how to get a roguenite and madknight. Also, you are losing the stats of gohopper and going to have to use him elsewhere... not sure where that works out. One thing I like about this though is that roguenite has a lot of defense and has decent speed, but it has a low mp and so does madknight.

I don't think its worthwhile to get a metalking. I like your pick of divinegon, he seems to be as good a candidate as any to breed up to.

Maybe you could do something like this with the lionex: lionex-battlerex=andreal, andreal-medusaeye=orachi, orachi-skydragon=divinegon? Would this work out faster, or would your current method be faster for getting divinegon/give better stats?

I like your kingleo, he is a solid pick up as well. So the only one I really don't like is fairydrak. That battlerex breed just doesn't sit well with me. I swear that there are other monsters with whistle other than giantslug if you didn't use the battlerex for the divinegon and wanted to breed him with something else.

How do you plan to obtain the healers for this plan?

and I figured you already were using an emulator, or else i would have suggested it. I think its a great tool for practicing speed runs, especially in games where timing and precision movements don't matter.
AquaTiger
AquaTiger
Edit history:
AquaTiger: 2006-11-08 01:06:04 pm
2006-11-08 01:05:21 pm
Never give up!
As far as MadKnight and RogueNite: The former is the boss of the first bazaar gate (where you have to give a monster with a fire technique to the two guys - I'd wait until I can get FloraMan for this purpose), and I believe he joins automatically if you beat him.  As for RogueNite, he can be found in the gate earned after delivering so many TinyMedals, OR I can breed a Material-class monster with a Zombie-class monster.

Note that my selections of Divinegon and KingLeo were selected on three factors: a comparatively quick breeding line to get there, resistances, and overall stat growth.  I backed off to KingLeo for monster 3 instead of going for MetalKing because not only had I just discovered that breeding possibility when looking it over again, I could not be certain of MetalKing's survivability to physical attacks and the few magics he's not immune to (MetalKing has great defense but beyond atrocious HP growth).  KingLeo at least has decent HP growth, and it doesn't take an eternity to level him up apparently (although the chart I'm reading from could have typos in it).

I do have another option for the second monster.  Instead of breeding the GreatDrak with MedusaEye and going down the path for Divinegon, I could breed it with a lesser Devil monster (like the 1EyeClown that's freed up) to get Lizardman, and then breed it with the MadKnight mentioned earlier to get Coatol.  I suffer out on some MP and a few resistances (not the MegaMagic one though - Coatol's still slightly resistant to MegaMagic) in exchange for having a monster that takes far less time to level up and has a few other exceptional attack skills (I'm mainly eyeing GigaSlash here).  (Though most dragons take a while to level up anyway.)

Anyway, the focus of my post, the Whistle skill.

There's two other monsters besides GiantSlug who have Whistle.  They are MadCandle and Slabbit.  (There's also Watabou, but I don't count him as he is a post-Starry Night monster.  Even if I did, why waste him down here when he's a one-time monster and there's a monster combo that REQUIRES him?)  I want to restrict how much breeding I have to do on THAT line, because each time I do, that means the levelling process takes longer for them (I need Whistle THAT badly).  (Yes, I can get around this later on with the ShinyHarp.  No, I'm not looking forward to doing that.)

If I can get an excellent monster with two or a maximum three breeds from ANY of those three monsters, I'll consider that path.

Here's a three-breed to consider from GiantSlug:

-(level 20) Instead of breeding a BattleRex with a GiantSlug, instead breed a Zombie-type monster with it (probably Spooky from Talisman) to get Mudron.
-(level 20) Breed the Mudron with one of six other monsters (ArcDemon, Lionex, GateGuard, MetalDrak, Roboster, CopyCat) to get DeadNoble.  (The most likely of these is CopyCat, the boss of the gate in the Monster Stable, accessible after Anger.)
-(level 30) There's a bunch of second monsters I CAN use for this, but I'm only listing the ones I can foresee using.  Regardless, breed the DeadNoble with SpotKing (from Judgement), Andreal (easy to get), GreatDrak (also somewhat easy to get, but more difficult than Andreal), or WhipBird (this last one I can get as soon as I can get to May - I could probably even use a Dracky to get WhipBird) to get WhiteKing.

I can see a Slabbit course that gets me to RainHawk, but that requires a LOT more breeds.  Not worth it in my opinion.  If you can find me a better one, I'll have another look.

I don't see ANY courses from MadCandle that get me a viable monster within six breeds.

As far as where my healing comes from?  I'll list who in these plans has healing spells at all:

-On the monster 1 path, the Healer I use for the first breed has Heal.  He also has HealUs, but I don't foresee that one being learned by its offspring, GiantSlug.
-On the REVISED monster 1 path, I pass through Mudron and DeadNoble to get to WhiteKing.  Mudron has Heal and Vivify, while DeadNoble has HealUs.
-On the monster 2 path, I use Unicorn to get GreatDrak.  Unicorn has Heal and Vivify.  This is even if I go for Coatol rather than Divinegon.
-On the monster 3 path, I use Gremlin as part of the initial breed.  Gremlin has Heal.

I'm not worrying about status effects, as it is the rare arena/tournament battle (the only places I can't use items even if I have them) where the enemy uses them (add in the fact that paralysis is the only status effect that even remotely concerns me).  I'm just concerned with HP healing and revival - all three monsters can cover the first (a revised monster 1 more than anyone else), and the first two monsters cover the latter.  I consider that pretty good.
stanski
2006-11-08 06:12:55 pm
wise fwom yo gwave
I guess that your option with giantslug is the only thing you can do for whistle, and I know that will save time. The healing spell looks good.

The only reason i wanted roguenite was to get madknight, so if you have a madknight then you could breed that with battlerex to get coatal. Try and see if coatals stats fit in anywhere, or if there are any other breeds you could do with giantslug to get a better monster in this position. I was also looking into a path to get whiteking, but didn't see the one you have. A 3 path whiteking imo would be more worthwhile than a 2 path fairydrak.

Coatal was just another option thrown out there, but if you had whiteking-divinegon-kingleo, I don't think this would waste too much time and would be worthwhile. The only one that would take a while to breed up to would be divinegon, obviously, but I think it would work out to be a pretty fast path using just these 3.
AquaTiger
AquaTiger
Edit history:
AquaTiger: 2006-11-09 02:23:33 am
2006-11-08 10:51:42 pm
Never give up!
Hmmm....

Okay, I've decided I'm going to rearrange the timetables for getting the monsters I need.  Here's how it looks so far, assuming the second monster is Divinegon and not Coatol:

-The gate boss monsters I need - specifically Healer, Dragon, MadCat, and FangSlime - will be gotten as soon as possible
-I need to catch Anteater AND Dracky in the Beginning Gate.  Anteater is guaranteed on my team for G-class, but if I get Dracky near the end of the gate, I'm leaving Slime in for G-class.
-I need to catch Gremlin and beat Dragon on the first pass through Villager.
-I'll go back for GoHopper and make sure I can Warpwing out immediately afterward.  At this point, I'll be getting the SkyDragon egg.
-Ditto for Spooky in the Talisman gate.
-I plan on using Dragon, Healer, and either Anteater or Gremlin for F-class.
-As soon as I beat F-class, I'm going to raise GoHopper and Healer to the needed levels and breed them to get GiantSlug.
-Next, I shall complete the Gate of Memories.  I only need to beat and thus get the MadCat here.
-I shall spend some time levelling up in Bewilder so Dragon learns BlazeAir.
-In E-class, I plan on using GiantSlug, Dragon, and one of the following three: MadCat, Anteater, Gremlin.
-Now on to the Gate of Peace.  Here I just need to beat FangSlime and get him to join.
-I need two monsters from Bravery: 1EyeClown and SabreMan.
-Do some more levelling in Bravery next.
-For D-class, my first two monsters remain the same.  However, I will use either MadCat, Anteater, or Gremlin depending on who's strongest.
-As soon as I hit Anger, I'm going to pick up CatFly and Putrepup, then warp out.
-At this point, I must make the following breeds, hopefully with the total level of each pair of monsters being 40 or higher (two level 20 monsters, for instance):
==Anteater and Gremlin - to get Grizzly
==CatFly and FangSlime - to get Unicorn
==Spooky and GiantSlug - to get Mudron
-Out of the above three, I'm hatching the Grizzly and the Mudron right away and levelling them up to at least 12.
-Once all of my main party monsters are in good shape, I'll go fight BattleRex.  My team will be Mudron, Dragon, and Grizzly.

And that covers the first phase of the game.  The tree shaking scene commences phase two, and here's my plan for that:

-The reason I still haven't bred Dragon is because I should be able to use Scorching by now.  I'll level him up until he learns it if he hasn't.
-After that, I plan on beating B-class with Mudron, Dragon, and Grizzly.
-Next up, I must go to the gate in the Monster Farm, accessible now because of the tree's growth.  I need to beat CopyCat and recruit it.
-Now, since I won't need to collect more monsters from this point, I'm going to run the next phase of monster breeding.  It shall go like this, and each pair of monsters must have a level total at or exceeding 40:
==Mudron and CopyCat - to get DeadNoble
==Dracky (who could be at level 30 by now) with May's Rayburn (in the arena's restaurant - I believe other tamers' monsters always have levels matching your own monster in cases like this) - to get WhipBird
==SabreMan with Grizzly - to get Roboster
==Dragon with Unicorn - to get GreatDrak
==1EyeClown with Putrepup - to get MedusaEye
-The monsters I need to have ready for the next phase are DeadNoble, GreatDrak, and Roboster.
-I shall level these monsters in the Gate of Temptation until they are at a level I find suitable for surviving S-class - right now the low limit is 20.
-Then, it's time to beat S-class with these.

This ends phase two.  I consider the Gate of Reflection and Starry Night to be the third phase (and the final one as far as speedrunning is concerned), and here's the stuff for that:

-Now, I definitely need to breed GreatDrak and MedusaEye, making sure the total level for both monsters is 40 or above, to get Orochi.
-Now, I'm debating what level I need to raise the last generation of monsters to.  Should the total level be 40 or 60?  Regardless, here's the final breeds at the level we ultimately decide:
==DeadNoble and WhipBird - to get WhiteKing
==SkyDragon and Orochi - to get Divinegon
==Roboster and MadCat - to get KingLeo
-From there, I level these monsters to a survivable level - I'm thinking 30 - and go through the rest of the game.

I'm going to mention some other stats for these monsters in a future post.

Edit: Trimmed off MadKnight since I wasn't going for Coatol.  The changes for getting him are as follows:
-Don't get Putrepup - only the 1EyeClown.
-Also skip getting the SkyDragon egg here.
-Get the MadKnight from the Bazaar Gate.  This requires getting FloraMan in Bravery.
-Breed the GreatDrak with 1EyeClown this time to get LizardMan.  (replaces the Orochi step)
-Breed the LizardMan with the MadKnight to get Coatol.  (replaces the Divinegon step)
stanski
2006-11-09 02:28:57 am
wise fwom yo gwave
Obviously test whether 40 or 60 is more beneficial. See how this all works out, and tell us if its faster or not then your previous plans.
AquaTiger
AquaTiger
Edit history:
AquaTiger: 2006-11-09 03:37:31 am
2006-11-09 03:21:20 am
Never give up!
Well, the issue there is whether after breeding and further levelling, I have the stats (mostly HP) needed to survive the onslaught of the Starry Night monsters.  If I can do it with the total levels of the breeder monsters being 40 (and levelling the result monster to between 20 and 40), I'll go with 40 - if not, I'll go with a total level of 60 (this may adjust - I'm listing the numbers where the breeding 'plus' is affected).  My current HP goal for at least two of the monsters involved is 400, which should be well over what the last Starry Night team deals in the first turn (the turn that concerns me).  I'll modify this once I find out just how much damage the opening combo can do.

And it's almost impossible to compare this to previous strategies.  Previous strategies, while sometimes fast, have stalled out due to being too weak for an area, and many would require impromptu levelling for more than an hour to recover.  If I can avoid that kind of stallout (strictly in regards to very sudden, impromptu levelling compared to methodical levelling), I'm fine.

Anyway, I'm writing up the stats list now, but I'm cramming the relevant stuff into an Excel document so it will take a while.  Unfortunately I couldn't get good info on the two slime-class monsters in my strategy, as the Tiger Marmalade site only lists letters for those (I could have sworn it used numbers before), so I will be forced to list their stats as generalities.  I'm also building some stuff on the ten classes in general, which I shall use when commentary time comes about.
stanski
2006-11-09 06:09:21 am
wise fwom yo gwave
This faq is what I've been using. Its confusing to read for the breeding patterns, but I like it because it has all the breed stats and resistance right there for you to view: http://db.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbcolor/file/dragon_warrior_monsters_b.txt
AquaTiger
AquaTiger
Edit history:
AquaTiger: 2006-11-09 09:31:42 am
2006-11-09 09:30:40 am
Never give up!
Well.

It turns out this seems to be the FAQ that the Tiger Marmalade site's information is based on.  I think I'll use this for most of my information - I can see levelup stats for each growth category here, something the Tiger Marmalade site does not have.

All it's missing is an experience growth chart (so we can plot levelups better), and I don't know if we'll EVER find any of those.  That is, without resorting to a hex editor.  I may consider doing that to find stuff out (unless someone beats me to it).
AquaTiger
AquaTiger
Edit history:
AquaTiger: 2006-11-11 12:27:51 am
2006-11-10 03:17:18 am
Never give up!
In other news, I've rediscovered the page detailing the Japanese run of this game, and put it through Babelfish.  Translation's kinda rough, but I think I can intuit the important stuff.

Here's my best interpretation on their strategy, followed by my version of things in italics:

-Skip the two herbs at the start, they're not worth the time.
==I normally get them as a safety measure.  Although I may consider avoiding them now....
-Get a female Anteater in the Beginning Gate and a female Dracky from there as well, in addition to getting Healer.  Dracky needs to be level 3 when fighting Healer.
==Since my strategy calls for getting Anteater anyway, I'm fine.  The new interpretation covers Dracky, I've found.
-A first strike is crucial to survival in G-class.
==I expected as much.
-Ditch Healer - its levelups make you lose time.
==This I could never agree with.  I need Healer for breeding later on.
-Go into Talisman and level Dracky to level 5 before facing Golem.  Dracky learns Sleep at level 5.
==From here to the end, our paths differ greatly.  I might actually try their path during emulator practice and see what brews.  Anyway, Sleep makes sense.
(I could not interpret their notes on fighting Golem, except apparently the Anteater is supposed to die in the fight.  That's crazy.)
-Go into Villager.  You need a special floor on 3F, then you need to get a female Gremlin on 4F.
==Gremlin's in MY strategy, so I'm not complaining.  As for needing a special floor (a church or shop, probably the latter) on 3F, it's so they can save and manipulate luck.  Fair enough.
-After beating Dragon, replace the Anteater with him.
==Hmmmm.... it must be for Sleep over physical power.  I'd have replaced the Dracky.  Anyway, Dragon's FireAir is invaluable.
-If everyone's alive in the last match of F-class, winning is likely.
==Fairly simple.
-Get Anteater back, ditching Dracky.  Also, go into Bewilder and get a male DragonKid, sending it to the farm as well.  When Anteater hits level 8, go to the level that has FaceTree and fight all the Stubsuck monsters here, then Warpwing out.
==I suppose Anteater's power makes up for the lack of having Sleep here.  Why level 8?  It's because the Stubsuck monsters will push him to level 10, important for later.
-Get Dracky back and put away Anteater.  Also get DragonKid out, ditching a monster at or above level 10.  Level everyone to 10 and defeat MadCat - make sure to recruit him too.  You're going to repeatedly nail him with Sleep.
==It's because they use these monsters in mere moments.  Anyway, MadCat seems to be a good acquisition here.
-Get Dragon and give him to the guys in the bazaar gate.  Then breed Anteater and Golem to get one Grizzly, MadCat and Gremlin to get another Grizzly, and Dracky with DragonKid to get Wyvern.
==I could never agree with using Dragon for the bazaar gate - I still have need of him for breeding.  I could understand breeding one Grizzly, but they're too much of a one-trick pony - their attack power is insane and health is fair, but everything else about them sucks - to convince me that a second one is best.  Wyvern seems to be used as a healer mainly - I suppose that fits well with its status-effect parents.
-Go into the bazaar gate and get everyone to level 10.  Also get multiple WindStaffs and sell them in an in-gate shop.  Don't face MadKnight.
==I may need MadKnight later for breeding if I go with the alternate strategy.  As for using WindStaffs for money here.... no.  Just.... no.  I'd rather collect several Ribs to cover money needs before B-class.  Because from my experience, getting the shop in a gate is exceedingly random.
-D-class is easy due to the two Grizzlys.  Get a CatFly and breed Grizzly with it to get Grizzly again.  Also, breed Wyvern with a Zombie-type to get MadGoose.  After that, get a Wizard trainer and zip straight to level 10 thus.
==I underestimated what the Wizard could do - might want to make a note of this.  Anyway, the rebreeding of Grizzly is to further increase attack power.  As for MadGoose?  It learns OddDance (later RobDance) and LureDance, both devastating in the right hands.

The important parts of the rest (I'm getting sick of translating) are that their next breeds result in getting a Unicorn and a Roboster.  Their last two breeds result in getting KingLeo and Balzak.  That's right, one of their final monsters is also one of my final monsters.  (Their third final monster is MadGoose - they just can't give up on LureDance.)  The rest details a lot of things I would never consider pulling off for sanity's sake, such as saving before random trainers to force drops and always fighting Metalys.

One other detail I garnered.  If I go for the TinyMedal quest and get the ZapBird, I can supposedly manage to get KingSlime.  If I change my mind and decide getting MetalKing is better than KingLeo, getting this gate may be important.  (I probably won't - MetalKing takes longer to level than Divinegon.)
stanski
2006-11-11 07:29:31 am
wise fwom yo gwave
Well, sounds like you should keep kingleo, and I agree that metalking should be thrown out for divinegon. Then that just leaves a 3rd choice, which of course we just need to figure out through trial and error. Sent you a pm as well.
AquaTiger
AquaTiger
Edit history:
AquaTiger: 2006-11-11 04:17:22 pm
2006-11-11 03:05:36 pm
Never give up!
Let me rephrase what I was saying at the end.

MetalKing would have been in place of KingLeo.  I just mentioned Divinegon as a reference point for MetalKing's experience to make a point as to why I didn't select MetalKing.

Monster 3 in my setup currently remains WhiteKing.  My only question spot regards the second monster.  I'm still debating over what the second monster should be - and right now it's still down to Divinegon vs. Coatol.  (I've also examined DragonKid, believe it or not, as it also resists MegaMagic.  However, its HP growth is way insufficient until really late - I'm talking 50+ levels.)

Here's the list of advantages Divinegon gets over Coatol:
-Better resistances to the Bolt and Bang series spells
-Access to the BiAttack series through Orochi
-Access to MultiCut through SkyDragon
-Natural access to BigBang

Here's Coatol's advantages:
-Much faster to level up
-Access to the GigaSlash series through LizardMan (a mandatory step if I want this path)
-Natural access to EvilSlash (a nasty single attack, in exchange for losing all defense)

Here's a comparison of the total gain in each stat by level 30 (remember, this does not factor in stats of parent monsters):

Divinegon - 169 HP, 117 MP, 165 ATK, 218 DEF, 170 AGI, 170 INT
Coatol - 117 HP, 117 MP, 170 ATK, 141 DEF, 165 AGI, 117 INT

Let me explain most of it.  Different numbers in the chart grow at different rates.  So a low stat may actually have all its growth early, while a high stat may have all its growth occur in the last forty levels.  This can result in lower growth numbers having higher actual stats through a certain number of levels.

Those numbers are not encouraging, for the record.  I need higher HP monsters than this.

In casual play, Divinegon would win hands down due to skills and resistances.  However, since this is a speedrun, I suspect Coatol may get me where I need to be faster.

For the record, the stat boost totals at level 30 for WhiteKing, KingLeo, and MetalKing:

WhiteKing - 170 HP, 218 MP, 117 ATK, 170 DEF, 165 AGI, 255 INT*
KingLeo - 170 HP, 117 MP, 218 ATK, 170 DEF, 141 AGI, 117 INT
MetalKing - 14 HP, 439 MP, 165 ATK, 439 DEF, 439 AGI, 165 INT

These stats are INCREDIBLY surprising.

* This would be higher, but it's the game's limit for that stat.

I'll post the ones for some other monsters in my plan later.  I also need to compile some other things:
-Starting stats for the final monsters
-What reachable monsters are resistant to all three of Bang, Bolt, and MegaMagic
-The reachable monsters with the highest HP at level 30
-What levels I need my final monsters to be at to survive Starry Night, assuming the above

I'm bound to find better final monsters by accident.  Stay tuned.

Update: Apparently, a lot of the boss-types have the HP growth I want, but the only other monsters that have what I'm looking for are Poisongon, WhipBird, and HornBeet.  HornBeet levels fairly fast, too.  Taking these two into account, I may be tempted to breed an Armorpion as one of my final monsters.  Not sure what role it'd fill yet - I require a whole new line of investigation for that one.  (Probably a mixed support/attack role.)  I'm also tempted to breed a ZapBird as another final monster - despite lacking resistance to MegaMagic, I should be able to simply bounce it back and forth between ZapBird and WhipBird a few times to shoot its HP up really high.  (If ZapBird is the monster of choice, I'm using it as a mage and possibly a healer as well.)  I think I'm going to keep KingLeo as the third monster regardless.

And yes, I'm aware that HP and ATK growth can be influenced by a monster's "plus" number.  I'm trying not to take this into account.  Although it does lend credence to waiting until level 20 or 30 to breed monsters....... I definitely plan on looking this up, although I want to see if my party of WhiteKing, KingLeo, and either Divinegon or Coatol works before using this one.  If it does, a party involving Armorpion, KingLeo, and one of three elemental birds may be a consideration for an improvement run (Armorpion levels a bit faster than WhiteKing, and all three element birds - Blizzardy, Phoenix, and ZapBird - level insanely fast. I specify ZapBird in early examples because that's the one that jumped out first, although I think I will use all three in any such breeding strategies).
AquaTiger
AquaTiger
Edit history:
AquaTiger: 2006-11-12 11:19:26 pm
2006-11-12 05:09:58 pm
Never give up!
I've had another look at breeding charts and here's my conclusion.

Armorpion ain't happening in a speedrun.

There's definitely WAY more breeds and more monsters I need to catch going with that compared to Coatol or Divinegon or even WhiteKing.  At least, if I want a half-decent Armorpion.

I came up with breed routes for eight of the monsters I've ever considered final and are powerful enough to be such.  Here they are (wild/boss monsters required listed in parentheses, with situational monsters being counted as bosses):

MetalKing (4/3)
-First breed a Pillowrat and the FangSlime to get Unicorn.
-Then breed the Healer with Unicorn, making sure the level total is above 40.  You should get SpotSlime and it should be at +3.
-Now get a wild SpotSlime and breed the wild and raised SpotSlimes together, again making sure the level total is above 40.  If things are correct, you should get SpotKing with a +5 (any less and you'll just get another SpotSlime).
-Meanwhile, breed a DragonKid with a Gulpple to get Andreal.
-Then breed Andreal with the Golem to get MetalDrak.
-Finally, breed SpotKing with MetalDrak to get MetalKing.

Mimic (5/2)
-First breed an ArmyAnt with the Healer to get GiantSlug.
-Breed a Hork with GiantSlug to get Mudron.
-Then breed Mudron with the MadCat to get Skeletor.
-Meanwhile, breed an Anteater with a Demonite to get Grizzly.
-Then breed a Goopi with Grizzly to get Roboster.
-Finally, breed Roboster with Skeletor to get Mimic.

Balzak (5/2)
-First breed a DragonKid with a Gulpple to get Andreal.
-Breed the Golem with Andreal to get MetalDrak.
-Meanwhile, breed a Hork with the BattleRex to get Skullgon.
-Breed MetalDrak with Skullgon to get IceMan.
-At another time, breed a Gremlin with a BeanMan to get Orc.
-Lastly, breed IceMan with Orc to get Balzak.

Divinegon (2/3)
-Breed the Dragon with the BattleRex to get GreatDrak.
-Meanwhile, breed a 1EyeClown with a Putrepup to get MedusaEye.
-Breed GreatDrak with MedusaEye to get Orochi.
-Lastly, breed the monster farm's SkyDragon with Orochi to get Divinegon.

WhiteKing (3/3)
-Breed a GoHopper with the Healer to get GiantSlug.
-Breed a Spooky with GiantSlug to get Mudron.
-Breed Mudron with the CopyCat to get DeadNoble.
-Meanwhile, breed a Dracky with May's Rayburn to get WhipBird.
-Breed DeadNoble with WhipBird to get WhiteKing.

KingLeo (3/1)
-Breed an Anteater with a Gremlin to get Grizzly.
-Breed a SabreMan with Grizzly to get Roboster.
-Lastly, breed Roboster with the MadCat to get KingLeo.

Coatol (3/4)
-Breed the FaceTree with a Poisongon to get Fireweed.
-Breed the Golem with a Stubsuck to get Facer.
-Breed Fireweed with Facer to get DanceVegi.
-Breed a Demonite with DanceVegi to get DarkEye
-Breed the Dragon with DarkEye to get LizardMan.
-Breed LizardMan with the MadKnight to get Coatol.

WhipBird (6/2)
-Breed a Picky with a DragonKid to get Wyvern.
-Breed Wyvern with a CoilBird to get MadCondor.
-Meanwhile, breed a Goopi with a PillowRat to get MadCandle.
-At another time, breed the Healer with a MiniDrak to get DrakSlime.
-Breed MadCandle with DrakSlime to get Gismo.
-Breed MadCondor with Gismo to get ZapBird.
-Lastly, breed ZapBird with May's Rayburn to get WhipBird.


Note: my specific words say some things about the monster.  If I say 'a' or 'an' monster, it's found wild in a gate - I'm not mentioning what gates this time.  If I say 'the' monster, it means it's a gate boss - again, no mention of which ones.  If I just refer to it as the monster, that means it's one bred in previous steps.  And if I mention a name or place in possession of the monster, it means the monster required is accessed through a specific situation.

Another note: in some situations, I'll be able to pick from two or three different monsters in one spot.  I'm just mentioning one monster that works in those cases.

Knowing these, KingLeo is even more of a lock than before.  I'm still stumped on Coatol vs. Divinegon, because by unburdening Divinegon from skill requirements I suddenly put his monster requirement below Coatol's.  BUT my new route gives Coatol some very useful skills (PalsyAir and LureDance, most notably, along with GigaSlash that I've rigged back in).  As for monster 3.... it's now a tossup between WhiteKing, Mimic, and WhipBird.  I'm currently thinking of KingLeo, Coatol, and WhipBird as my next party to test.

One other note is that I still may get an extra, wimpy monster that has some sort of lightning-based skill.  This is because of the Well gate, which has Metaly monsters.  Could be useful as a jump start for levelling until I get to Reflection (where every fight gives as much experience as the Metaly monsters do).
AquaTiger
2006-11-13 02:46:53 am
Never give up!
Well, after poring over my options, here's the NEW plan-out for the run:

-In the Beginning Gate, get Dracky, Anteater, and Healer.  Do this in one pass.
-In G-class, use all of your new monsters.
-Go to the Gate of Talisman and get both Goopi and MiniDrak to your side.  Then beat Golem.  Replace Dracky at this point.
-Go to the Gate of Villager.  In the first pass, your goal is to get Dragon, plus one of the following three: Gremlin, Stubsuck, or PillowRat.
-Go to the Gate of Villager again and get the last two monsters you skipped.
-In F-class, use Healer, Dragon, and Golem.
-Now, before doing any breeding, go to the Gate of Memories.  Get DragonKid, then finish the gate by getting MadCat.
-Level up any monsters that need it.
-Do the following breeds ASAP:
==Anteater and Gremlin - for Grizzly
==Goopi and PillowRat - for MadCandle
==Dracky and DragonKid - for Wyvern
==Healer and MiniDrak - for DrakSlime
==Golem and Stubsuck - for Facer
-Hatch Grizzly, MadCandle, and Wyvern - the others will be needed for breeding later, and it is assumed that unless I specify a monster, it will not be hatched before the next breeding phase.
-Go to the Gate of Bewilder.  Level up quite a ways (having MadCandle and his Whistle skill will help), get Demonite, then finish the gate by beating all the ending Stubsucks and the FaceTree.  Recruit FaceTree - we'll need him soon.
-Now, you're going to skip E-class and go after D-class at this point.  With Grizzly doing the damage and Wyvern doing the healing, things should be okay.  If MadCandle's a bystander, don't fret.
-At this point we're going to clean up those gates we missed.  Go to the Gate of Peace and get a CoilBird and BoneSlave, then warp out.
-Now head to Bravery.  Get SabreMan and FloraMan, then warp out.
-Before dealing with Anger, give the FloraMan to the two guys in the Bazaar.  Also give BoneSlave to the guy in the Well.  Go into the Bazaar gate and get MadKnight at the end.
-Now you can start with Anger.  First things first, get a Poisongon, then warp out.
-At this point, go into the well and hope for a special room at level 8.  If it's not there, reset and keep trying until there is.  Once you get a special room there, save and start going after the Metaly monsters in levels 9-11.  Fight Metaly monsters until your monsters' levels are fairly good, then warp out.
-At this point, go into Anger and defeat Battlerex.
-Now, before we go any farther, we need to do some more breeds.  Make sure the total levels for each monster pair are 40 or above (if you need more levels, use the Well gate):
==SabreMan and Grizzly - for Roboster
==FaceTree and Poisongon - for FireWeed
==Wyvern and CoilBird - for MadCondor
==MadCandle and DrakSlime - for Gismo
==FireWeed and Facer - for DanceVegi
==Demonite and DanceVegi - for DarkEye
==MadCondor and Gismo - for ZapBird
==Dragon and DarkEye - for LizardMan
-Okay, enough of those.  You want ZapBird, Roboster, and LizardMan for B-class.
-We're going to get our final breeds out of the way now.  Make sure the level totals are 60 or above:
==Roboster and MadCat - to get KingLeo
==LizardMan and MadKnight - to get Coatol
==ZapBird and May's Rayburn - to get WhipBird
-Now, level up and beat S-class.

The rest is just getting through the remainder of the game.
Hina
2006-11-18 04:03:21 am
hey keep it up I still play this game from time to time and I've always had a tough time with it, especially the bosses that you had to fight after you beat the game for the first time.

I'm looking forward to seeing a vid eventually, so good luck
AquaTiger
2006-11-18 01:55:54 pm
Never give up!
I had a really busy week this week, so I didn't have the chance to keep going on my practice.

And it's also hard because all my difficult stuff is in the first half of the run.  After I get the Poisongon in Anger, I just need to make sure I don't have monsters collapse along the way in gates and that I get enough money to enter class matches.  That's not nearly as hard as luring monsters in this game.

Anyway, I will say I am definitely NOT used to using the variety of monsters I've used in these practice runs.  In casual play, I'm used to focusing on just Dragon-type monsters and Boss-type monsters.  I didn't care much for any other type, and I was ESPECIALLY not concerned with Bug-types or Plant-types.
stanski
2006-11-19 03:13:03 am
wise fwom yo gwave
keep up the spirit man, I really can't wait for you to get this run under your belt!
stanski
2007-01-13 04:49:16 am
wise fwom yo gwave
Bump: any progress?

I really don't have the patience myself to run an rpg that is so luck based, so unfortunately I would never do a run of this. I really want to see something put together, though, as this was one of the only rpgs I've actually beaten in my life.
AquaTiger
2007-01-14 05:20:53 am
Never give up!
Not much yet.  I've been too busy.

Though with the DVD recorder now in my hands, this is going to be one of the first runs done using it, as I've had people waiting for, what, over a year now?  I owe it to some people to finally finish what I started.
stanski
2007-01-14 06:42:25 am
wise fwom yo gwave
Do we even know if ANY of our strats can get you through the game yet?

And I'm still wondering, is there an actual video on that japanese site? Too bad we don't have many japanese fluent players here that could help us out with figuring out their comments.
Acryte
Acryte
Edit history:
Acryte: 2007-01-18 11:32:51 am
2007-01-15 09:09:41 am
Zelda Scientist®
always did love following this thread, I have some ideas of my own I may test soon, it's completely different and more luck based, but I've never been a breeding guru persay so I'll spare embarrassment and test before talking about it much. I mean, I'm sure as hell looking at resistances, learned moves, stat growth etc. but still. Yeah, looking back, im not sure how strong it would hold up and it needs ridiculous amounts of luck. In fact if I was ever to try it I'd just have to make it the run because there is so much luck I'd never want to do it again.

Just a question aquatiger, what are your general levels at in a practice run by the time you beat E-class? Around 13?
____________

well idk, I think the idea is salvageable a little... If I abandon the monster #2 for an orc and breed it w/ a pumped up kid that I have been working on later and get revive and just get warcry elsewhere. it's just that you don't get bookmarks till after D-class and anger and that means that my strat would need insane luck because I'd want to steal 3 specific monsters from NPC's before I had the bookmarks. Bleh... the general idea was to keep the required generations low but then after stealing enough, breeding like-class monsters to keep the same ones but w/ stronger stats, while having decent enough stats and great stat growth in the important areas for learning the skills that I want out of the monsters... etc, etc. the basic outline was like this:
(monster 3 was just any powerhouse that was easy to get. I'd settle for a grizzly probably from decent hp and high attack. cheap xp too so...)

also when I say [steal:"xx"] xx is the total cumulative levels of your monsters that you need to see a specific monster set from the NPCs aka, so you can make them have certain ones... and you can try to anticipate and manipulate it till you get what you need. Also, NPC steals know moves that the monsters normally don't get, so you can get extra skills this way w/out needing to breed for them. (generally I keep the cumulative levels low to get the important stuff early). also () usually encase moves they already know while [] usually encase inherited moves or moves they learn because of the specific monster they are. I had the hardest time w/ monster #2. This makes it that much harder to do because it requires 2 different steals on top of the lava man I already stole... I wanted a great support character w/ an added way to win or debuff through palsyair instead of damage due to having a weaker attack, while still learning lifedance and healusall and lushlicks, panidance, and luredance type moves. The 3rd is up in the air, probably a grizzly or something. He can get beefs from breeding or something if necessary but he is cheap to level up so I don't think it is so important. Also gold golem is suprisingly cheap to level (to put it one way, skydragon has 21 and gold golem is at 18...) and has resistance akin to a boss monster... in short however, there is not a single boss monster that has less than 24 in xp to lvl... he is very easy to level comparatively even to a dragon, while the xp to power ratio is insane. great stat growth as well... a boss monster has 19 or above for all growth stats. on average he has 2 at 30 and most at 23 or so. The average is about 23 for lowerlevel bosses, and about 26 for high level bosses. Gold golem is only lacking boss status in 1 area, and that is his cool 17 in agi, which is still quite good... he averages about 23-24. He also learns insane skills. He is pro.

GoldGolem max level:80 XP:18  Sex:1  Flying:0 HP:24 MP:21 ATK:24 DEF:27 AGI:17 INT:23

Monster 1: The Beast (Dam/Dam/Dam)
GOLD GOLEM
      [Steal:39-58] - Lavaman -> (Blazemore,Fireslash,Metalcut)[Fireair(i)]
      [Aquisition 2: [BREEDING: Goldgolem <- Iceman & Lavaman]
                        Iceman -> [IceBolt,FrigidAir,StrongD]
                        Goldgolem -> [BigBang,Surge,TatsuCall]



Monster 2: The Support (Heal/Revive/debuff)
Tree Slime / Mad Plant
      [Steal:20-39] - Fireweed -> (PaniDance,LushLicks,WarCry*) [Palsyair(i)]
                I want to combine warcry w/ revive to learn lifedance.
      [Steal:20-39] - Orc -> (Heal,Vivify,LureDance) [Vivify(i)]
      [Lvl: Healer] - Learn healus* ->
                            I want healusall (because it is the best)
      [BREEDING: Boxslime <- Healer(p) & Material(mp/int)]
      [Boxslime: Great resistances, Awesome growth rates (hp/mp/int)]*
            Abuse growth before breeding
      [BREEDING: Gulpple <- Fireweed(p) & Orc]
      [BREEDING: TreeSlime <- Boxslime(p) & Gulpple]*
            if Gulpple(p) -> Madplant (may be more desireable[hp])


Monster 3: The Purebred (dam/dam/dam)
Grizzly / lionex
devil + beast breed
demonite + Huh? madcat?
desired skills? multihit attacks, rainslash, quadhits,etc.


Idk, I was just starting a rough outline of how I would do some of it but not sure as to how I'd start, probably sticking to how you start out since you have more experience at getting through the beggining quickly than I do, plus I haven't played this game in like... a year. The only thing that I can possibly think of that would make catching these monsters (when I actually see them) easier would be if I had ironize, but I don't have it... lol, and I need to investigate how early I could even aquire it... That technique is absolutely priceless for catching hard to get dudes. Seriously... I hate it when you need to feed lots of meat to catch a guy and then your freaking monsters decide to attack the one that you want alive... well, us ironize, then just feed while they can't attack. If that works then it could save me alot of time but I don't think I can even get it soon enough... a technique like that...

about that metal king... I know that mettable gate takes forever to unlock... but catching 4 mettables sounds alot easier (though less skills are available)....

1 Devil and 1 bug will get me an eyeball... which learns ironize, so a demonite and a bug (like a gohopper) can be used to get ironize quickly and provide a way for me to keep sanity.
_________________

Well, I'm not trying to go too fast, since it's my first ever practice run, but I am at 32 mins and have a beastail + about 189 gold.
My monsters are at lvl 10 Dracky, lvl 9 Healer, lvl 8 Anteater, Lvl 4 Slime, Lvl 4 Picky. 2 tiny medals.

My healer is well tamed so far and charge always attacks, mixed uses upper, and cautious always heals unless no healing is necessary, in which it uses def. I'm pretty sure I can beat F class now since I got to the final battle w/ full hp for all dudes. Only problem was that confusion... gotta keep playing it till I start out well.
(also, I have warpwinged twice out of villager instead of fighting the boss. I will save that for lvl 10 and lvl6 for Anteater)
_______

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.

Okay, so I tried to soft reset and it just erased my game after it froze trying to on the nintendo screen. Wow, good bye tiny medals and like 300+ gold and a beasttail at 32 mins. that is so lame. WHAT THE HELL. I HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM LIKE THAT W/ THIS GAME.

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Well, Im back at 35 with 1-2 levels lower for each monster and no tiny medals... whatever... at least I caught a gremlin. It can be bred w/ my bug to get an eyeball so I can get ironize... I'm pissed. Im at 52 mins and my levels are 8, 9, and 7. At least I beat E class and both village and talisman gates already but that is so ___ (insert 3 letter word for discriminating against homosexuals). I hve a 9 healer, 8 anteater, 7 golem, 4 slime, 10 Dracky, 5 gohopper, 4 gremlin, 3 stubsuck, and a 6 dragon.
I'll be sticking w/ the 1st 3 I think and will probably breed the dragon w/ someone too to pick up tha abilities. I'll also grab the skydragon egg. if not to use, at least to have pulio shut the hell up. Oh, and the tiny medals I had, were from gates, aka, not counting the ones you can find in barrells etc.

Okay, 56 mins now and I have madcat. Okay, at 59 minutes I have a facetree. WOW. so stupid, I can get to the final fight, but I was 1 attack away from getting there w/ all monsters... but my healer has to die. stupid E class... 10,12 and 8 isn't quite enough. Damnit, I'm falling behind. 1:33 and I'm trying to beat E class.

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Beaten E class at 146. My healer died but Golem's Def was way too high. Once the snailys were dead and had killed off wveryone but golem, golem still only took 1 dam hits from armorpede and dished out 7-12+ so there was no way I'd lose since I had like 54 hp. I need to change my strats though, healer is way too weak and it would take too long to learn healus I think... I need to make him a boxslime as soon as possible. Hell, I should have done it early on and then turned him back into a healer later when he had higher stats so he could learn Healus faster and then I'd turn him into a treeslime or a boxslime... oh well. That will be for the next attempt I guess. Crap, healus takes way too long... minimum level 20... I shoulda looked that up before I started... well, I guess I'll breed golem w/ my slime for a boxslime healer w/ great def. Ironize is learned at lvl 15 which is way too late... that would take 30 mins. I'd rather spend 2 weeks trying to get lucky and nab me a lava man... so here goes.