Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction: Sorc run (finished)

Edit history:

Coriolanus: 2005-07-19 07:07:00 pm

2005-07-19 07:05:54 pm

I don't like the concept of save loading to build up exp, but if you're going to do it, you can also do it in Act 1 which could be really advantageous. You can also repeat the town council over and over again for exp.

Unfortunately you enshrine a bias against anyone who will try a single segment run of D2 because they cannot exploit that. In theory, a speed run with saves should come as close to a single segment run as possible.

I would have preferred the rules to be no dying and no backtracking after a save and exit... part of the challenge to date has been trying to balance leveling with progressing through the game. It is my belief that there exist paths through the game that can allow for segmented runs, getting to the ancients at level 20 and getting a superb time without dying or backtracking. I don't think people will look for those paths because if they get into time trouble, they can always "save and exit".

Zurreco

2005-07-19 07:22:59 pm

Just call me the cynicism machine

Well, if push comes to shove, every hollowed altar in A3 is a chance to get some decent exp/drops on your way through the main quests. Either that or taking the wrong path in the arcane to make a quick loop and take out a few herds of blood clan members. Otherwise, powerleveling is subject to going way off course or abusing certain areas with save/load to replenish to mobs. You would be pretty hard pressed to find enough reliable mobs to get desired levels in time for Arreat Summit.

Siyko

2005-07-19 07:50:41 pm

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

In diablo 2, probably more so than any other rpg, single segment runs will always be at a huge disadvantage to segmented. You can have a fine run, but maybe they just dont drop enough expensive stuff in act 1 to afford all the potions you need, or you get 20 of those damn lightning shooting guys in the TOD, or the seal you need to hit happens to have a huge bossminion pack. Segmented runs can ignore these relatively unlikely situations, but in a single segment, there are so many bad things that can happen that it becomes almost inevitable that at least one will happen. I can't count how many times I had to save and load before Ormus was selling a +teleport staff without any expensive mods.

It's a different issue than one with saving and loading to face a group that repopulates itself, but it's not really different than hanging around a random encounter area to powerlevel, or entering and re-entering a zone where a specific enemy or set of enemies will respawn. Both of these are useful and almost any RPG speedrun. Diablo 2 just has a differnet system to take advantage of. I do think it seperates the speedrun from the realm of possbility a little bit, but in my opinion, not much more than segmenting it in the first place. And theres no way I'm gonna do a single segment diablo 2 run (in less than 4 hours).

In diablo 2, probably more so than any other rpg, single segment runs will always be at a huge disadvantage to segmented. You can have a fine run, but maybe they just dont drop enough expensive stuff in act 1 to afford all the potions you need, or you get 20 of those damn lightning shooting guys in the TOD, or the seal you need to hit happens to have a huge bossminion pack. Segmented runs can ignore these relatively unlikely situations, but in a single segment, there are so many bad things that can happen that it becomes almost inevitable that at least one will happen. I can't count how many times I had to save and load before Ormus was selling a +teleport staff without any expensive mods.

It's a different issue than one with saving and loading to face a group that repopulates itself, but it's not really different than hanging around a random encounter area to powerlevel, or entering and re-entering a zone where a specific enemy or set of enemies will respawn. Both of these are useful and almost any RPG speedrun. Diablo 2 just has a differnet system to take advantage of. I do think it seperates the speedrun from the realm of possbility a little bit, but in my opinion, not much more than segmenting it in the first place. And theres no way I'm gonna do a single segment diablo 2 run (in less than 4 hours).

Siyko

Edit history:

Siyko: 2005-07-19 11:12:41 pm

2005-07-19 11:03:44 pm

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

Okay, now I really can't wait to replay this run.

Just finished 3 segments (i'm gonna end with 15 unfortunately Lips Sealed

:-X)

chaos sanctuary - 5m
level to 20 - 4m
ancients to worldstone wp - 5m

really good times yo!

Adding up all my times, I still won't beat Marsh's, I'd have to kill baal in 3 minutes, which just isn't gonna happen. But that's damn close for a whole lotta messups. Lets hope radix decides to host it.

edit: he said k

Siyko

2005-07-20 02:15:58 am

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

Finished the last segment in a pretty bad time - 9 minutes. I made a LOT of mistakes, but most of them were mistakes I had made in the past few segments, that I am just realizing. I was frustrated because I kept dying to baal's stupid minions, and when I changed my previous couple runs to get the act 5 merc, and he ended up doing NOTHING except eating all my potions and dying...

The time is probably just about 2:05, which I have no regrets about. I've learned a lot of ways it can be improved, and I think I can get the next attempt down to 1:45, but it won't be easy.

Siyko

2005-07-20 01:03:27 pm

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

I've started to rethink the idea of getting a staff with +teleport instead of spending 2 skill points for it for 5 main reasons:

1) any +levels more than +1 to teleport are wasted. Sacrificing 2 skill points for teleport, and then wearing a +3 lightning staff would be more efficient (and there's more time to look for one, which would give a better chance for other mods)

2) During boss fights, I equip a +static field staff to make sure my merc takes the brunt of the attacks while I remain safe enough away. This would be a lot easier to do if I didn't have to press W when I want to teleport away (there's a small delay between casting something and when you can switch weapons, and many times W has failed me)

3) Being able to teleport while looking for my corpse would help in the rare occasion I keep a run where I die.

4) Less time switching weapons in town (between +lit, +statc, +tele, +armor)

5) Don't have to spend extra $ on tele staff

Disadvantages:
1) While leveling, it is not as efficient as having all points into lit, with a +lit staff

2) Leveling from 17-18, probably hardest level to get, does not get to spend the level 17 skill point in anything useful

I think the pros make up for the cons. I still stand by having a frozen armor staff (because it's used only every few minutes, and it's not that bad to not have it), and a static field staff (only used in boss battles, makes a big difference).

I've started to rethink the idea of getting a staff with +teleport instead of spending 2 skill points for it for 5 main reasons:

1) any +levels more than +1 to teleport are wasted. Sacrificing 2 skill points for teleport, and then wearing a +3 lightning staff would be more efficient (and there's more time to look for one, which would give a better chance for other mods)

2) During boss fights, I equip a +static field staff to make sure my merc takes the brunt of the attacks while I remain safe enough away. This would be a lot easier to do if I didn't have to press W when I want to teleport away (there's a small delay between casting something and when you can switch weapons, and many times W has failed me)

3) Being able to teleport while looking for my corpse would help in the rare occasion I keep a run where I die.

4) Less time switching weapons in town (between +lit, +statc, +tele, +armor)

5) Don't have to spend extra $ on tele staff

Disadvantages:
1) While leveling, it is not as efficient as having all points into lit, with a +lit staff

2) Leveling from 17-18, probably hardest level to get, does not get to spend the level 17 skill point in anything useful

I think the pros make up for the cons. I still stand by having a frozen armor staff (because it's used only every few minutes, and it's not that bad to not have it), and a static field staff (only used in boss battles, makes a big difference).

Gorash

Edit history:

Gorash: 2005-07-21 11:17:29 am

2005-07-21 11:17:13 am

${$uid.$user}{' usertext'}

Question Siyko, will you submit your 2:05 or will you wait until you can crush the existing record?

Siyko

2005-07-21 12:37:51 pm

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

submit. I am already starting a new run, but I would just like to get some of the ideas out there, hopefully encouraging people to try better runs on both classes, and coming up with more time saving tips.

Siyko

2005-07-23 10:21:45 pm

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

woo new high score

time is about 1:55 - not completely sure on timing, but looks like it beats it by the smallest of small margians.

Coriolanus

2005-07-23 10:28:16 pm

way to go:clap:

what is next?

You may find this annoying but I would still like to see a top-notch run with no dying and with no "reloading" monsters for exp.

Siyko

Edit history:

Siyko: 2005-07-23 11:32:43 pm

2005-07-23 10:47:33 pm

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

It wouldn't be that much differnet - I'd just gave to run the 2 annoying arcane sanctuary routes instead of doubling up on the painless ones. That's the only time I backtrack, except for maybe a couple guys in the far oasis when I get the wp to it, and in another segment, run from that wp.

As for what's next, I don't know. I'd like for someone to beat this time. It'd be cool if it was an assasin, the dual of the classes. Or someone attempting it with another class would be impressive, but I can't imagine much success.

kimae

2005-07-24 12:30:36 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I would like a SS run Smiley

Dark Camui

2005-07-24 10:34:49 am

So when is this run coming up?

Siyko

2005-07-24 04:07:44 pm

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

It'll be done uploading in a couple hours, and then it'll have to be timed and verified and stuff. I don't know how long it will take.

Siyko

2005-07-26 02:04:13 pm

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

Waiting for Radix to take whatever crazy actions he has to now. I think you'll all enjoy the run, and I really hope someone tries to push it down, with the sorc or the asn. I wonder if Marsh will do another run to reclaim the assasin's superiority? If so, I'd love to challenge whatever beats my time.

Gorash

2005-07-27 02:30:20 am

${$uid.$user}{' usertext'}

I'm still here you know...

Once I find the time I'll definitely try it, but first I need more drive space...

Lag.Com

2005-07-27 11:21:54 am

sda loyalist

Siyko: Whenever you do your next run, remember that control+left click sells something out of your inventory. Smiley

Siyko

2005-07-27 12:41:19 pm

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

doh! i knew there was a shortcut for that!

You verified it then? Everything is legit I take it?

Lag.Com

Edit history:

Lag.Com: 2005-07-27 03:16:46 pm

2005-07-27 03:11:50 pm

sda loyalist

Watching it right now. Segment 1 of the run stops playing at about 11:15 for me? I can work out what you did inbetween then and the finishing time, but of course, your inventory changes drastically, so I really need the rest of it. If it runs fine for you, the first segment may have been corrupted whilst transferring to Radix. I'll ask him if it plays for him when he gets back.

Looks good so far though! I disagree with some of your looting choices, but Teleport... wow. That's real speed. Lucky with that +2 Lightning staff too. Smiley

As a side, I'm thinking of testing how fast a Sacrifice/Zeal + Might pally could be. Maybe if I gamble for + speed boots, I could have quite an entertaining run.
Oh yes, was the dispute about ?players ever solved? If it's allowed, I get level extremely quick (sacrifice + might/prayer early on is a ticket to mucho xp).

Edit: Oh yeah, why didn't you set Charged Bolt/Lightning to your left mouse button? That way you could keep Frozen/Shiver Armor or Teleport on yor right. Smiley

Watching it right now. Segment 1 of the run stops playing at about 11:15 for me? I can work out what you did inbetween then and the finishing time, but of course, your inventory changes drastically, so I really need the rest of it. If it runs fine for you, the first segment may have been corrupted whilst transferring to Radix. I'll ask him if it plays for him when he gets back.

Looks good so far though! I disagree with some of your looting choices, but Teleport... wow. That's real speed. Lucky with that +2 Lightning staff too. :)

As a side, I'm thinking of testing how fast a Sacrifice/Zeal + Might pally could be. Maybe if I gamble for + speed boots, I could have quite an entertaining run.
Oh yes, was the dispute about ?players ever solved? If it's allowed, I get level extremely quick (sacrifice + might/prayer early on is a ticket to mucho xp).

Edit: Oh yeah, why didn't you set Charged Bolt/Lightning to your left mouse button? That way you could keep Frozen/Shiver Armor or Teleport on yor right. :)

Siyko

2005-07-27 05:06:29 pm

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

Quote:

Watching it right now. Segment 1 of the run stops playing at about 11:15 for me? I can work out what you did inbetween then and the finishing time, but of course, your inventory changes drastically, so I really need the rest of it. If it runs fine for you, the first segment may have been corrupted whilst transferring to Radix. I'll ask him if it plays for him when he gets back.

Looks good so far though! I disagree with some of your looting choices, but Teleport... wow. That's real speed. Lucky with that +2 Lightning staff too. Smiley

As a side, I'm thinking of testing how fast a Sacrifice/Zeal + Might pally could be. Maybe if I gamble for + speed boots, I could have quite an entertaining run.
Oh yes, was the dispute about ?players ever solved? If it's allowed, I get level extremely quick (sacrifice + might/prayer early on is a ticket to mucho xp).

Edit: Oh yeah, why didn't you set Charged Bolt/Lightning to your left mouse button? That way you could keep Frozen/Shiver Armor or Teleport on yor right. Smiley

Gotta be a bad transfer. First segment is 18 minutes IIRC, and defiently ends in town. I watched the whole run myself as if I were verifying it. Ask radix for the medium or low quality version, and I'll upload the broken one when I get back from work (I assume it was HQ that was broken?)

Looting choices were tough... I cringe sometimes looking at my decisions (chasing some champions around in act 3 to get a couple potions... ugh)... I am too used to looting for long-term instead of speedrun

The only pally build I can see working is Thorns and Zeal, but maybe might would work too. Zeal with a dual leech 2h would work well with that, but require a lucky drop/purchase. No more easy crafts IIRC (6 chip + long sword = leech sword i believe was taken out in 1.10)

I actually tried CB/Lit on the left mouse, but the problem comes when I'm cliking to run around or herd people together, and I stop to cast something when I don't want to. I get by okay with hotkeys, except for teh occasional mixup (accidently teleporting into a group of enemies is a whole lot of fun). I had to press W for every armor I wanted to cast anyways, so hotkey wouldn't have saved time.

[quote]Watching it right now. Segment 1 of the run stops playing at about 11:15 for me? I can work out what you did inbetween then and the finishing time, but of course, your inventory changes drastically, so I really need the rest of it. If it runs fine for you, the first segment may have been corrupted whilst transferring to Radix. I'll ask him if it plays for him when he gets back.

Looks good so far though! I disagree with some of your looting choices, but Teleport... wow. That's real speed. Lucky with that +2 Lightning staff too. :)

As a side, I'm thinking of testing how fast a Sacrifice/Zeal + Might pally could be. Maybe if I gamble for + speed boots, I could have quite an entertaining run.
Oh yes, was the dispute about ?players ever solved? If it's allowed, I get level extremely quick (sacrifice + might/prayer early on is a ticket to mucho xp).

Edit: Oh yeah, why didn't you set Charged Bolt/Lightning to your left mouse button? That way you could keep Frozen/Shiver Armor or Teleport on yor right. :)[/quote]

Gotta be a bad transfer. First segment is 18 minutes IIRC, and defiently ends in town. I watched the whole run myself as if I were verifying it. Ask radix for the medium or low quality version, and I'll upload the broken one when I get back from work (I assume it was HQ that was broken?)

Looting choices were tough... I cringe sometimes looking at my decisions (chasing some champions around in act 3 to get a couple potions... ugh)... I am too used to looting for long-term instead of speedrun

The only pally build I can see working is Thorns and Zeal, but maybe might would work too. Zeal with a dual leech 2h would work well with that, but require a lucky drop/purchase. No more easy crafts IIRC (6 chip + long sword = leech sword i believe was taken out in 1.10)

I actually tried CB/Lit on the left mouse, but the problem comes when I'm cliking to run around or herd people together, and I stop to cast something when I don't want to. I get by okay with hotkeys, except for teh occasional mixup (accidently teleporting into a group of enemies is a whole lot of fun). I had to press W for every armor I wanted to cast anyways, so hotkey wouldn't have saved time.

Pweisger

2005-07-28 12:32:34 am

PwNzRd!

So we got an assassin run and a sorc run, anyone interested in even trying out the other ones? I think druid at least could go rather quickly, even necromancer.

Lag.Com

2005-07-28 10:37:55 am

sda loyalist

I was just testing the paladin build I came up with yesterday, he is REALLY slow unless I pump Dexterity, which I really don't want to do, as I need a fair bit of Vitality to keep Sacrificing things. Of course, I switch to Zeal at 12, but levelling until then is a real pain. And bosspacks murder me.
Any ideas? I'd like to do a paladin, but staying alive whilst using Sacrifice is no picnic; only Light Healing Potions make any difference, Minors just let them kill me.

Siyko

2005-07-28 12:53:08 pm

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

Try thorns. Skip the act 2 merc because his aura will not stack with yours. Don't do sacrifice if you're gonna take damage the whole time - stick with Might during the beginning. Save sacrifice for shamans or guys you need to take out early. It will be slow at first, and I can't imagine it being very fast later on.

Gorash

Edit history:

Gorash: 2005-07-28 01:29:30 pm

2005-07-28 01:14:09 pm

${$uid.$user}{' usertext'}

Quote:

I was just testing the paladin build I came up with yesterday, he is REALLY slow unless I pump Dexterity, which I really don't want to do, as I need a fair bit of Vitality to keep Sacrificing things. Of course, I switch to Zeal at 12, but levelling until then is a real pain. And bosspacks murder me.
Any ideas? I'd like to do a paladin, but staying alive whilst using Sacrifice is no picnic; only Light Healing Potions make any difference, Minors just let them kill me.

If you'll remember I used a sacrifice pala for my act1run attempts. I used an either bought or found szepter, which in the optimal case is found and etheral and therefore the by far mightiest 1handed weapon in the first act. And although I only leveled to lv6-7 I had never problems with the damage gotten from sacrifice, only with the damage I got from enemies.... How many points do you put in sacrifice?

About merc aura Siyko: It indeed does stack with yours, but none of them will be of any use to you... defiance is first useful when you get holy shield, blessed aim will first come to use in act 3, by which the act2 merc is worthless, and thorns brings me to the next point:

Do not under any circumstances rely on thorns. It will weaken you against everything using magic attacks, AND versus everything that does not do much damage, which is the case for the bigger share of the enemies. If anything use the fire aura... it does a decent amount of damage in normal if pushed high enough.

One thing I found out:
When playing offline the range to hit monsters is much less tolerant than on battle net. This results in a nasty range bug which is long fixed for realm games, but still persists in offline games. When you think you have trouble hitting monsters, even if you should hit 95% of the time, walk a little closer and try again. I believe it's a rounding error between the AI that walks you up to the enemy until you are in hitting range, and the testing routine that calculates your distance while swinging you attitude readjustment tool (read: weapon). That to say, I have never seen this reported by anyone else, but when I tried act1runs both online and offline I found that online chars hit more often.

Overall my guess would be:
- 3 points sacrifice (+210% dam)
- 13 points might (+160% dam)
- 4 points zeal (5 swings)

use zeal in crowds and sacrifice for bosses

or:
- 3 points sacrifice (+210% dam)
- 1 point might to level early (+40% dam)
- 4 into zeal (5 swings)
- 2 points resist fire (synergy for holy fire)
- 10 points holy fire (dam with synergy: 67-83)

note that the distribution of the 12 points over holy fire and resist fire totals in most dam:
- 12 into holy fire would be 61-73 per hit
And since resist auras are instantaneous you'll appreciate it as a life saver in act 3 and 4.

since holy fire is only level 6 you can think for yourself if you take additional points from sacrifice and stuff them into holy fire or reists fire.

use zeal and holy fire to fry everything

[quote]I was just testing the paladin build I came up with yesterday, he is REALLY slow unless I pump Dexterity, which I really don't want to do, as I need a fair bit of Vitality to keep Sacrificing things. Of course, I switch to Zeal at 12, but levelling until then is a real pain. And bosspacks murder me.
Any ideas? I'd like to do a paladin, but staying alive whilst using Sacrifice is no picnic; only Light Healing Potions make any difference, Minors just let them kill me.[/quote]
If you'll remember I used a sacrifice pala for my act1run attempts. I used an either bought or found szepter, which in the optimal case is found and etheral and therefore the by far mightiest 1handed weapon in the first act. And although I only leveled to lv6-7 I had never problems with the damage gotten from sacrifice, only with the damage I got from enemies.... How many points do you put in sacrifice?

About merc aura Siyko: It indeed does stack with yours, but none of them will be of any use to you... defiance is first useful when you get holy shield, blessed aim will first come to use in act 3, by which the act2 merc is worthless, and thorns brings me to the next point:

Do not under any circumstances rely on thorns. It will weaken you against everything using magic attacks, AND versus everything that does not do much damage, which is  the case for the bigger share of the enemies. If anything use the fire aura... it does a decent amount of damage in normal if pushed high enough.

One thing I found out:
When playing offline the range to hit monsters is much less tolerant than on battle net. This results in a nasty range bug which is long fixed for realm games, but still persists in offline games. When you think you have trouble hitting monsters, even if you should hit 95% of the time, walk a little closer and try again. I believe it's a rounding error between the AI that walks you up to the enemy until you are in hitting range, and the testing routine that calculates your distance while swinging you attitude readjustment tool (read: weapon). That to say, I have never seen this reported by anyone else, but when I tried act1runs both online and offline I found that online chars hit more often.

Overall my guess would be:
- 3 points sacrifice (+210% dam)
- 13 points might (+160% dam)
- 4 points zeal (5 swings)

use zeal in crowds and sacrifice for bosses

or:
- 3 points sacrifice (+210% dam)
- 1 point might to level early (+40% dam)
- 4 into zeal (5 swings)
- 2 points resist fire (synergy for holy fire)
- 10 points holy fire (dam with synergy: 67-83)

note that the distribution of the 12 points over holy fire and resist fire totals in most dam: 
- 12 into holy fire would be 61-73 per hit
And since resist auras are instantaneous you'll appreciate it as a life saver in act 3 and 4.

since holy fire is only level 6 you can think for yourself if you take additional points from sacrifice and stuff them into holy fire or reists fire.

use zeal and holy fire to fry everything

Lag.Com

2005-07-28 02:11:22 pm

sda loyalist

Looks like it might work; tried again and hit much more often this time. Smiley

My times still aren't great, but I haven't done the whole route-planning thing, this is just a trial. Holy Fire really helps more than I thought it would.

I put 4 in Sacrifice, I think maybe the 4th point could have been better spent in res fire, but it killed Bone Ash pretty quick. 8)