Crystalis

2005-10-03 12:17:47 am

Not going to school today

I'm just about to start recording a run of this. I estimate that it won't beat the existing run by more than five minutes, but we'll see. There are a couple of cool things that I do that dragondarch didn't do, the main one being the only real "sequence break" in the game: getting past the two petrified people in the waterfall without unpetrifying them. I don't know how widespread that trick is, but I was kind of surprised that dragondarch didn't know about it, since his run was so good. It's nice because you don't have to dance between the queen and the fortuneteller; in fact, you never have to talk to either of them at all. Also, I never buy any armor or shields. There's a few route differences, but nothing extraordinary. I also found better places to level up, which, as anyone who's played the game knows, sucks. Would anyone be interested?

Thread title:

-Suzaku-

2005-10-03 12:48:44 am

Eternal Understudy

Go for it.
Just a question, NES or GBC version? Not sure if there are differences are.

tmont

2005-10-03 12:55:52 am

Not going to school today

NES. Don't know either. Wasn't the GBC version called Godslayer? Or maybe that was just Japan...

-Suzaku-

2005-10-03 01:01:16 am

Eternal Understudy

probably just Japan. My friend had the GBC version and it was called Crystalis. Fromwhat I saw, it was basically the same, but you can never be too careful with ports, just look at Link's Awakening.

VorpalEdge

2005-10-03 03:36:06 am

welcome to the machine

Quote:

just look at Link's Awakening.

Hah, indeed.

Thankfully, you've got a working NES copy, so that won't be a problem (for now, at least).

NES Outlaw

2005-10-03 03:55:33 am

IIRC, the GBC version of Crystalis was much easier, partly because you could any sword on any monster. Also, Draygon's second form was fought after DYNA.

tmont

Edit history:

tmont: 2005-10-03 07:17:31 pm

2005-10-03 07:14:35 pm

Not going to school today

Quote:

IIRC, the GBC version of Crystalis was much easier, partly because you could any sword on any monster. Also, Draygon's second form was fought after DYNA.

That's weak. Part of the fun of running this game is impressing everyone with your submenu efficiency. If you never have to change swords, how will people be impressed? Smiley

And wouldn't defeating Draygon's "true" form after DYNA be a direct contradiction to the story line?

tmont

Edit history:

tmont: 2005-10-06 04:49:13 am

2005-10-06 04:48:52 am

Not going to school today

Just died at 1:23:10 in a run; right before I was about to destroy DYNA (I thought I had an Opel Statue equipped, but alas). That would have been about 5:30 faster than the current one. Oh well. I made a few wrong turns in the dungeons anyway, so it was already a little subpar. I probably lost about a minute altogether.

tmont

2005-10-09 12:08:47 am

Not going to school today

All done. 1:22:06. Approximately. Just for giggles, here's a comparison to dragondarch's run:

	Me	Not me
Defeated Witch	4:44	5:06
Defeated Insect	10:48	11:42
Defeated General Kelbesque (1st time)	25:24	27:14
Defeated Sabera (1st time)	44:25	48:31
Defeated Mado (1st time)	52:39	58:01
Defeated Karmine	1:08:00	1:11:37
Defeated Emperor Draygon (2nd time)	1:17:52	1:24:36
Defeated DYNA	1:22:06	1:29:14

Wow. That was a fun refresher in HTML. Obviously, I timed a little differently.

Dragondarch

Edit history:

Dragondarch: 2005-10-09 06:29:12 pm

2005-10-09 12:35:32 pm

Pudding%

Just a note, I'm working on another run for this game...currently I'm 14:03 faster than my previous time upon arriving in Sahara. This is just a test run but a real one shouldn't be too hard with the new things I do.

BTW, there's a second sequence break that allows the complete skipping of the Island Fortress. It's about 4 min. or so faster.

EDIT: Finished mock-run. Final time was 18:56 faster than my last run, which would equate out to a 1:10:25

Checkpoints:
Entering Windmill Cave: -12 sec
Entering Fields around Brynmaer: -18 sec (-30 sec)
Entering Mt. Sabre West: -53 sec (-1:23)
Entering Mt. Sabre North: -1:37 (-3:00)
Entering Fields around Portoa: -1:07 (-4:07)
Entering Ocean: -1:45 (-5:52)
Entering Swan: -6:10! (-12:02)
Entering Goa Fortress (with intent to kill): -59 sec (-13:01)
Entering Sahara: -1:02 (-14:03)
Entering Crystalis Tower: -3:35! (-17:38)
Death of DYNA: -1:18 (-18:56)

tmont

Edit history:

tmont: 2005-10-10 06:13:58 am

2005-10-09 09:59:05 pm

Not going to school today

Hmmm. Apparently, I'm not done with this either.

Quote:

BTW, there's a second sequence break that allows the complete skipping of the Island Fortress. It's about 4 min. or so faster.

That's hot. 4 minutes faster. Wow. Give me another week, to see if I can match it. Damn. That's friggin' impressive. Smiley

There were some definite places where I messed up, the most notable of which was that I forgot to obtain Recover from Asina before going into the Fog Lamp Cave. Once I got in there, I realized I didn't have it and promptly got paralyzed like an idiot and had to warp back to Portoa. But that mistake didn't cost 19 minutes, so I'll have to see what else I can do. You've got me all excited about this again!

Edit: You're not using that crazy warp with the second controller, are you?

Dragondarch

Edit history:

Dragondarch: 2005-10-10 08:00:43 pm

2005-10-10 12:26:16 pm

Pudding%

Nope. If I were going to use Wild Warp it'd be used more than just there. It's a whole separate trick for this (and I may be able to shave a couple seconds if I can do it in a different location).

A lot of saved time came from better places to level up.
1-2 was slightly changed.
2-3 was better executed.
3-4 was changed, and combined with 4-5 making two easy level ups.
5-6 stayed the same, except I had more XP to start with than last time.
6-7 stayed the same, except I did the whole level on them.
7-8 was the same enemy, just a better location.
8-9 stayed the same.
9-11 was completely changed.
11-12 and 12-13 were combined and both moved elsewhere.
13-14 stayed the same.
14-15 and 15-16 were changed, and merged.

I'll start the taping procedure today...should have it done by Wednesday hopefully.

EDIT: I was right. I can shave a little more time by performing the trick from the island where you place the statue instead of Kensu's Hut (and save some MP in the process!)

tmont

Edit history:

tmont: 2005-10-10 08:18:41 pm

2005-10-10 08:17:57 pm

Not going to school today

Here's the areas where I level up, since there's no reason for me to keep them secret. Mabye they'll help you, or maybe you've found better places. I know all of them are better than or identical to the places in your current run.

1-2: blue slime outside the windmill guard cave
2-3: kill everything in path in windmill cave
3-4: awethrowers outside the Poison Forest
4-5: blue mushrooms outside Poison Forest
5-6: kill everything in path in Mt. Sabre South
6-7: blue plant things in Mt. Sabre North (I use level 2 fire sword instead of regular sword)
7-8: dragon things in waterfall cave
8-9: kill everything in path in Kirisa Plant cave and Fog Lamp cave
9-11: turtle things at entrance to Island Fortress
11-13: archers outside Goa (power ring and thunder sword, after Mado)
13-14: purple spider things in Goa 3F (Mado's floor)
14-16: brownish scorpion things in cave leading to Pyramid, outside of Sahara

I'm really looking forward to seeing this!

Dragondarch

Edit history:

Dragondarch: 2005-10-10 09:25:49 pm

2005-10-10 09:23:39 pm

Pudding%

1-2: Same, except I kill 10 of the humanoid things on the way to and from Zebu's Cave, mostly for the money.
2-3: Same
3-4: Axethrowers until I have $195, then wait until I get the Fire Sword and kill Blue Mushrooms.
4-5: Same
5-6: Same
6-7: Same, except I use regular stabs (not sure if there would be much difference in speed, though Level 2 Fire Sword shots would be safer...but again I need some of the money)
7-8: If by "Dragon Things" you are referring to the Medusas, then same.
8-9: Same
9-11: Same
11-13: The Wizard looking thing in Cave of Styx. Take a right at the fork after the shooting statues, he won't be there at first but go down about 1 screen and wait for 2-3 seconds, then head up. Hug the left wall as you climb the stairs...his shots will all miss you but you can stab him easily. Compared to the Archers outside Goa, this ended up being almost a minute faster, and a helluva lot safer. Plus it gives you a little more "oomph" for Mado 1.
13-14: Same
14-16: Same...I should note I'm usually poisoned almost the whole time I'm killing these damned things. The hit detection on them is misleading...I've stabbed right through them on numerous occasions. My Opel Statue is usually used here to save MP Wink

As for the sequence break in the ocean...it requires the Rabbit Shoes and the Dolphin to do. I don't know if this is doable from the beach outside of Joel, but it's definitely doable from the beach outside Kensu's Hut and the Island where you place the statue.
The whole trick revolves around precise button timing...basically you jump just as soon as you dismount from the dolphin, and aim to jump out over the water. The game thinks you never actually set foot on land, and counts you as having cast the Flight spell. You can fly up over the waterfall and get Barrier behind the whirlpools, then head to Swan.
Note that your MP will drain as if you had cast Flight as well.

Not sure if that explaination helps any...it's rather difficult to explain...and it takes quite a bit of practice to pull off. I'd recommend practicing on the beach outside Kensu's Hut - it seems to be a bit easier to pull off from there.

1-2: Same, except I kill 10 of the humanoid things on the way to and from Zebu's Cave, mostly for the money.
2-3: Same
3-4: Axethrowers until I have $195, then wait until I get the Fire Sword and kill Blue Mushrooms.
4-5: Same
5-6: Same
6-7: Same, except I use regular stabs (not sure if there would be much difference in speed, though Level 2 Fire Sword shots would be safer...but again I need some of the money)
7-8: If by "Dragon Things" you are referring to the Medusas, then same.
8-9: Same
9-11: Same
11-13: The Wizard looking thing in Cave of Styx. Take a right at the fork after the shooting statues, he won't be there at first but go down about 1 screen and wait for 2-3 seconds, then head up. Hug the left wall as you climb the stairs...his shots will all miss you but you can stab him easily. Compared to the Archers outside Goa, this ended up being almost a minute faster, and a helluva lot safer. Plus it gives you a little more "oomph" for Mado 1.
13-14: Same
14-16: Same...I should note I'm usually poisoned almost the whole time I'm killing these damned things. The hit detection on them is misleading...I've stabbed right through them on numerous occasions. My Opel Statue is usually used here to save MP  ;)

As for the sequence break in the ocean...it requires the Rabbit Shoes and the Dolphin to do. I don't know if this is doable from the beach outside of Joel, but it's definitely doable from the beach outside Kensu's Hut and the Island where you place the statue.
The whole trick revolves around precise button timing...basically you jump just as soon as you dismount from the dolphin, and aim to jump out over the water. The game thinks you never actually set foot on land, and counts you as having cast the Flight spell. You can fly up over the waterfall and get Barrier behind the whirlpools, then head to Swan.
Note that your MP will drain as if you had cast Flight as well.

Not sure if that explaination helps any...it's rather difficult to explain...and it takes quite a bit of practice to pull off. I'd recommend practicing on the beach outside Kensu's Hut - it seems to be a bit easier to pull off from there.

tmont

2005-10-11 12:16:34 am

Not going to school today

Quote:

1-2: Same, except I kill 10 of the humanoid things on the way to and from Zebu's Cave, mostly for the money.

Yeah, I do the same, I think I have 8 exp before I get the windmill key.

Quote:

3-4: Axethrowers until I have $195, then wait until I get the Fire Sword and kill Blue Mushrooms.

I did the same for my 1:22 video, but I think it would be faster to just level up to 4 before going to resuce the kid and get the fire sword. The reason why I didn't do it is because I don't use an inn until after I rescue the kid and get the fire sword, so I was usually dangerously low on HP/MP.

Quote:

6-7: Same, except I use regular stabs (not sure if there would be much difference in speed, though Level 2 Fire Sword shots would be safer...but again I need some of the money)

I think it might be faster, and it's definitely safer; you don't have to walk as far. It's probably about the same.

Quote:

7-8: If by "Dragon Things" you are referring to the Medusas, then same.

Yep. After you break the first ice wall, that cooridor is the best place to do it. The medusas will respawn if you just walk back and forth.

Quote:

11-13: The Wizard looking thing in Cave of Styx. Take a right at the fork after the shooting statues, he won't be there at first but go down about 1 screen and wait for 2-3 seconds, then head up. Hug the left wall as you climb the stairs...his shots will all miss you but you can stab him easily. Compared to the Archers outside Goa, this ended up being almost a minute faster, and a helluva lot safer. Plus it gives you a little more "oomph" for Mado 1.

Mado 1 is a joke even without being on level 13, he moves so slow the battle is over before you know it. What if you went back there after you killed Mado and got the Power Ring? The trek back to Styx might make it not worthwhile, but it's something to consider. I never even thought of leveling up there.

Quote:

14-16: Same...I should note I'm usually poisoned almost the whole time I'm killing these damned things. The hit detection on them is misleading...I've stabbed right through them on numerous occasions. My Opel Statue is usually used here to save MP Wink

For level 13-14 in Goa Fortress 3F, the best place is to go immediately to the southwest door after entering Mado's area. If you walk back and forth far enough, you can get the two purple spider things to respawn. Of all the enemies in the game, those are the most annoying for their respawning.

In the cave outside of Sahara, use the Warrior Ring. That's definitely faster and safer than stabbing, even with the power ring equipped. I never even get hit while leveling up in there. I'm usually at full health and full MP when I go into the pyramid.

Quote:

As for the sequence break in the ocean...it requires the Rabbit Shoes and the Dolphin to do. I don't know if this is doable from the beach outside of Joel, but it's definitely doable from the beach outside Kensu's Hut and the Island where you place the statue.
The whole trick revolves around precise button timing...basically you jump just as soon as you dismount from the dolphin, and aim to jump out over the water. The game thinks you never actually set foot on land, and counts you as having cast the Flight spell. You can fly up over the waterfall and get Barrier behind the whirlpools, then head to Swan.
Note that your MP will drain as if you had cast Flight as well.

Not sure if that explaination helps any...it's rather difficult to explain...and it takes quite a bit of practice to pull off. I'd recommend practicing on the beach outside Kensu's Hut - it seems to be a bit easier to pull off from there.

That explanation helps a lot. I actually experienced that same "glitch" when experimenting with the wild warp: I found that I jumped, but I kept losing MP as long as I held down A. It was really weird. I wasn't able to duplicate it, though. I spent like three hours last night trying to figure out how the hell you found a sequence break in the ocean. Very clever. I'm impressed. Smiley

At first I thought you found a way to get over the waterfall, but I tried every possibility (damage boosts, paralysis, anything) and nothing worked. The best I could do was to send an enemy through the waterfall, since they aren't affected by the waterfall's "gravity."

One more question: the only thing I ever buy in the game is three antidotes before going to Mt. Sabre South, and then two magic rings from Sahara before going to the pyramid. What do you need money for so early in the game?

[quote]1-2: Same, except I kill 10 of the humanoid things on the way to and from Zebu's Cave, mostly for the money.[/quote]
Yeah, I do the same, I think I have 8 exp before I get the windmill key.  
[quote]
3-4: Axethrowers until I have $195, then wait until I get the Fire Sword and kill Blue Mushrooms.[/quote]
I did the same for my 1:22 video, but I think it would be faster to just level up to 4 before going to resuce the kid and get the fire sword.  The reason why I didn't do it is because I don't use an inn until after I rescue the kid and get the fire sword, so I was usually dangerously low on HP/MP.
[quote]
6-7: Same, except I use regular stabs (not sure if there would be much difference in speed, though Level 2 Fire Sword shots would be safer...but again I need some of the money)[/quote]
I think it might be faster, and it's definitely safer; you don't have to walk as far.  It's probably about the same.

[quote]7-8: If by "Dragon Things" you are referring to the Medusas, then same.[/quote]
Yep.  After you break the first ice wall, that cooridor is the best place to do it.  The medusas will respawn if you just walk back and forth.
[quote]
11-13: The Wizard looking thing in Cave of Styx. Take a right at the fork after the shooting statues, he won't be there at first but go down about 1 screen and wait for 2-3 seconds, then head up. Hug the left wall as you climb the stairs...his shots will all miss you but you can stab him easily. Compared to the Archers outside Goa, this ended up being almost a minute faster, and a helluva lot safer. Plus it gives you a little more "oomph" for Mado 1.[/quote]
Mado 1 is a joke even without being on level 13, he moves so slow the battle is over before you know it.  What if you went back there after you killed Mado and got the Power Ring?  The trek back to Styx might make it not worthwhile, but it's something to consider.  I never even thought of leveling up there.
[quote]
14-16: Same...I should note I'm usually poisoned almost the whole time I'm killing these damned things. The hit detection on them is misleading...I've stabbed right through them on numerous occasions. My Opel Statue is usually used here to save MP  ;)
[/quote]
For level 13-14 in Goa Fortress 3F, the best place is to go immediately to the southwest door after entering Mado's area.  If you walk back and forth far enough, you can get the two purple spider things to respawn.  Of all the enemies in the game, those are the most annoying for their respawning.

In the cave outside of Sahara, use the Warrior Ring.  That's definitely faster and safer than stabbing, even with the power ring equipped.  I never even get hit while leveling up in there.  I'm usually at full health and full MP when I go into the pyramid.

[quote]
As for the sequence break in the ocean...it requires the Rabbit Shoes and the Dolphin to do. I don't know if this is doable from the beach outside of Joel, but it's definitely doable from the beach outside Kensu's Hut and the Island where you place the statue.
The whole trick revolves around precise button timing...basically you jump just as soon as you dismount from the dolphin, and aim to jump out over the water. The game thinks you never actually set foot on land, and counts you as having cast the Flight spell. You can fly up over the waterfall and get Barrier behind the whirlpools, then head to Swan.
Note that your MP will drain as if you had cast Flight as well.

Not sure if that explaination helps any...it's rather difficult to explain...and it takes quite a bit of practice to pull off. I'd recommend practicing on the beach outside Kensu's Hut - it seems to be a bit easier to pull off from there.[/quote]

That explanation helps a lot.  I actually experienced that same "glitch" when experimenting with the wild warp: I found that I jumped, but I kept losing MP as long as I held down A.  It was really weird.  I wasn't able to duplicate it, though.  I spent like three hours last night trying to figure out how the hell you found a sequence break in the ocean.  Very clever.  I'm impressed. :)  At first I thought you found a way to get over the waterfall, but I tried every possibility (damage boosts, paralysis, anything) and nothing worked.  The best I could do was to send an enemy through the waterfall, since they aren't affected by the waterfall's "gravity."

One more question: the only thing I ever buy in the game is three antidotes before going to Mt. Sabre South, and then two magic rings from Sahara before going to the pyramid.  What do you need money for so early in the game?

tmont

2005-10-11 05:49:56 am

Not going to school today

Did someone ask for a giant double post?

Okay, I got that sequence break to work. It's actually not that difficult once you figure out how to do it. I have a few suggestions:

First, there's no need to do the trick on the statue island, doing it from Kensu's hut is fine. Here's why: Since you can still attack while you're in "flight," and you can't get hit by anything on the ground (or in the sea), it makes sense that this is the perfect time to level up. Here's what I do:

-Give fog lamp to guy, row to Kensu's hut. Call Dolphin.
-Ride dolphin to Joel. Go in Joel and leave (to allow entrance into Evil Spirit Island). Call dolphin.
-Ride back to Kensu's hut and start flying.
-Get the Love Pendant from the channel under the palace.
-Go to Evil Spirit Island and level up two levels while flying. You can't get hurt or poisoned while you're flying. Kill the first two turtles and leave. Do that a billion times until you're at level 11.
-Get Barrier and go to Swan.

That seems to be the fastest way to level up, and the best part is that you can't get hurt! I timed it and it takes about 3 minutes to go from level 9 to level 11 in this way.

After that, you said you went to the wizard thing in Styx to go from level 11-13. I timed this, well, actually, I went past the wizard thing to the scorpion looking thing in the next room (the room with the psycho shield). That thing gives you 608 exp, while the wizard thing gives you 678 (I think), but when I fight the wizard I have to use Barrier or else I die pretty quickly, so your MP gets sucked up pretty quick, too. I thought leveling up in the next room might be better. It wasn't. It took almost 8 minutes to get to level 13. I timed how long it took to level up from 11 to 13 the old way (archers outside Goa with Power Ring equipped) and it took only 4:30. I don't know if you have some secret trick, but I can't imagine that it takes less that 4:30 to level up when you're in Styx.

Here's some weird things I noticed about the sequence break:

-If you do it perfectly, the dolphin will completely disappear. He actually travels "with" you, and then when you stop, he appears in the middle of the ocean! I did this a couple times. It was really weird.
-You can't "fly" back to Portoa, the "Angry Sea" won't let you. Not sure if you can when you have the real Flight, either.
-Only projectiles can hurt you. Anything on the ground you fly over. By some crazy distortion of depth perception, you can still beat the crap out of anything on the ground, though. Pretty awesome.
-You can still get Kensu's Love Pendant even when you're flying.
-The "gravity" of the waterfall still affects you. When you're flying over the waterfall, let go, and you'll slowly get pushed back down. Kind of weird.

And lastly, that is the coolest trick I've ever seen in my life. Thanks for sharing it. Smiley

Did someone ask for a giant double post?

Okay, I got that sequence break to work.  It's actually not that difficult once you figure out how to do it.  I have a few suggestions:

First, there's no need to do the trick on the statue island, doing it from Kensu's hut is fine.  Here's why:  Since you can still attack while you're in "flight," and you can't get hit by anything on the ground (or in the sea), it makes sense that this is the perfect time to level up.  Here's what I do:

-Give fog lamp to guy, row to Kensu's hut.  Call Dolphin.
-Ride dolphin to Joel.  Go in Joel and leave (to allow entrance into Evil Spirit Island).  Call dolphin.
-Ride back to Kensu's hut and start flying.
-Get the Love Pendant from the channel under the palace.
-Go to Evil Spirit Island and level up two levels while flying.  You can't get hurt or poisoned while you're flying.  Kill the first two turtles and leave.  Do that a billion times until you're at level 11.
-Get Barrier and go to Swan.

That seems to be the fastest way to level up, and the best part is that you can't get hurt!  I timed it and it takes about 3 minutes to go from level 9 to level 11 in this way.

After that, you said you went to the wizard thing in Styx to go from level 11-13.  I timed this, well, actually, I went past the wizard thing to the scorpion looking thing in the next room (the room with the psycho shield).  That thing gives you 608 exp, while the wizard thing gives you 678 (I think), but when I fight the wizard I have to use Barrier or else I die pretty quickly, so your MP gets sucked up pretty quick, too.  I thought leveling up in the next room might be better.  It wasn't.  It took almost 8 minutes to get to level 13.  I timed how long it took to level up from 11 to 13 the old way (archers outside Goa with Power Ring equipped) and it took only 4:30.  I don't know if you have some secret trick, but I can't imagine that it takes less that 4:30 to level up when you're in Styx.

Here's some weird things I noticed about the sequence break:

-If you do it perfectly, the dolphin will completely disappear.  He actually travels "with" you, and then when you stop, he appears in the middle of the ocean!  I did this a couple times.  It was really weird.
-You can't "fly" back to Portoa, the "Angry Sea" won't let you.  Not sure if you can when you have the real Flight, either.
-Only projectiles can hurt you.  Anything on the ground you fly over.  By some crazy distortion of depth perception, you can still beat the crap out of anything on the ground, though.  Pretty awesome.
-You can still get Kensu's Love Pendant even when you're flying.
-The "gravity" of the waterfall still affects you.  When you're flying over the waterfall, let go, and you'll slowly get pushed back down.  Kind of weird.

And lastly, that is the coolest trick I've ever seen in my life.  Thanks for sharing it.  :)

Dragondarch

Edit history:

Dragondarch: 2005-10-11 10:47:28 am

2005-10-11 10:47:01 am

Pudding%

Hooray for Giant posts! 8)

Quote:

One more question: the only thing I ever buy in the game is three antidotes before going to Mt. Sabre South, and then two magic rings from Sahara before going to the pyramid. What do you need money for so early in the game?

I only buy 5 things (not counting Inn trips)
1 Alarm Flute ($50) in Leaf (obviously)
3 Warp Boots ($65 x3) in Brynmaer after visiting Oak for the first time.
1 Platinum Armor ($2000) in Portoa after returning from the waterfall cave.

Platinum Armor is bought to compensate for my overly aggresive attack style.

Then there's also Inn trips:
-Once in Brynmaer ($20) before heading to Mt. Sabre South.
-Once in Oak ($40) before heading to Mt. Sabre North.
-2/3 times in Portoa ($100).
--Once when I first arrive and activate it as a warp point.
--Sometimes once when I return from the Waterfall Cave. My general attacking Strategy tends to get overly aggresive at times.
--Once before heading out to the Ocean.
-Once in Swan/Shyron ($150) depending on how much MP I have left after crossing the Ocean.
-Twice in Goa ($300)
--Once before fighting Mado 1
--Once before entering Goa Fortress with intent to kill
-Once in Sahara ($500)

Quote:

After that, you said you went to the wizard thing in Styx to go from level 11-13. I timed this, well, actually, I went past the wizard thing to the scorpion looking thing in the next room (the room with the psycho shield). That thing gives you 608 exp, while the wizard thing gives you 678 (I think), but when I fight the wizard I have to use Barrier or else I die pretty quickly, so your MP gets sucked up pretty quick, too. I thought leveling up in the next room might be better. It wasn't. It took almost 8 minutes to get to level 13. I timed how long it took to level up from 11 to 13 the old way (archers outside Goa with Power Ring equipped) and it took only 4:30. I don't know if you have some secret trick, but I can't imagine that it takes less that 4:30 to level up when you're in Styx.

I think I explained it bad.
When you're climbing the stairs in front of him hug the left wall, then just go straight up and down from that position. If you're on the correct vertical axis, you shoul be able to walk straight up and enter the next room if he's not there, but you'd be hugging the left wall as you went through the door.
All his shots will be to your right.

Quote:

First, there's no need to do the trick on the statue island, doing it from Kensu's hut is fine. Here's why: Since you can still attack while you're in "flight," and you can't get hit by anything on the ground (or in the sea), it makes sense that this is the perfect time to level up. Here's what I do:

-Give fog lamp to guy, row to Kensu's hut. Call Dolphin.
-Ride dolphin to Joel. Go in Joel and leave (to allow entrance into Evil Spirit Island). Call dolphin.
-Ride back to Kensu's hut and start flying.
-Get the Love Pendant from the channel under the palace.
-Go to Evil Spirit Island and level up two levels while flying. You can't get hurt or poisoned while you're flying. Kill the first two turtles and leave. Do that a billion times until you're at level 11.
-Get Barrier and go to Swan.

That seems to be the fastest way to level up, and the best part is that you can't get hurt! I timed it and it takes about 3 minutes to go from level 9 to level 11 in this way.

It's somewhat debatable on whether it'd be faster to do that trick first of not. Riding the dolphin is faster than flight speed, and doing it from the island where you place the statue places you right next to the whirlpool anyway. I figure use the dolphin for the speed until I'm ready to leave, then use the trick after.

Quote:

In the cave outside of Sahara, use the Warrior Ring. That's definitely faster and safer than stabbing, even with the power ring equipped. I never even get hit while leveling up in there. I'm usually at full health and full MP when I go into the pyramid.

For the scorpions, it takes 3 stabs with Power Ring, and if I can keep a good rythym up I pretty much never stop moving (I just get poisoned about 30 times...and I don't bother curing it since it's just going to keep happening ;)). Also they seem to respawn best if you touch the far wall on the north and south sides respectively. Not 100% guaranteed, but a better chance it seems.

Speaking of respawning, it seems that picking up the money dropped by the Blue Mushrooms seems to help with their respawn rate too...I don't know why.

Quote:

For level 13-14 in Goa Fortress 3F, the best place is to go immediately to the southwest door after entering Mado's area. If you walk back and forth far enough, you can get the two purple spider things to respawn. Of all the enemies in the game, those are the most annoying for their respawning.

For the Spiders, I found that you should touch the right wall after killing the one at the fork, then hug the lower wall on the way back to the one near the Steel wall, and touch the left wall before you kill it. Again, not 100% guaranteed, but it seems to help a bit.

Quote:

I did the same for my 1:22 video, but I think it would be faster to just level up to 4 before going to resuce the kid and get the fire sword. The reason why I didn't do it is because I don't use an inn until after I rescue the kid and get the fire sword, so I was usually dangerously low on HP/MP.

I chose to do it this way since I use a Pair of Warp Boots right after getting the Ball of Fire. It allowed me to get both levels in the same spot without much trouble. Plus the 50 XP you get from the Giant Insect, and the 20-30 you get on the way from Brynmaer to Mt. Sabre South is a good lead in to level 6 (occasionally I don't have to backtrack for XP because of this, depending on spawns). I'm usually low on HP and out of MP by that point as well, thus the reason I stop killing Axethrowers at $195. Mushrooms are much easier kills anyway.

Quote:

Yeah, I do the same, I think I have 8 exp before I get the windmill key.

I usually have 13, 10 from humanoid things, and 3 from Slimes.

Level 6-7

Quote:

I think it might be faster, and it's definitely safer; you don't have to walk as far. It's probably about the same.

I need at least $700 before arriving in Portoa, $200 for Inns (before and after Waterfall Cave) and $500 + the $1500 I'll earn from the Medusas for the Platinum Armor. I think Once I have that I'll switch to your method.

Hooray for Giant posts!  8)

[quote]One more question: the only thing I ever buy in the game is three antidotes before going to Mt. Sabre South, and then two magic rings from Sahara before going to the pyramid.  What do you need money for so early in the game?[/quote]

I only buy 5 things (not counting Inn trips)
1 Alarm Flute ($50) in Leaf (obviously)
3 Warp Boots ($65 x3) in Brynmaer after visiting Oak for the first time.
1 Platinum Armor ($2000) in Portoa after returning from the waterfall cave.

Platinum Armor is bought to compensate for my overly aggresive attack style.

Then there's also Inn trips:
-Once in Brynmaer ($20) before heading to Mt. Sabre South.
-Once in Oak ($40) before heading to Mt. Sabre North.
-2/3 times in Portoa ($100).
--Once when I first arrive and activate it as a warp point.
--Sometimes once when I return from the Waterfall Cave. My general attacking Strategy tends to get overly aggresive at times.
--Once before heading out to the Ocean.
-Once in Swan/Shyron ($150) depending on how much MP I have left after crossing the Ocean.
-Twice in Goa ($300)
--Once before fighting Mado 1
--Once before entering Goa Fortress with intent to kill
-Once in Sahara ($500)

[quote]After that, you said you went to the wizard thing in Styx to go from level 11-13.  I timed this, well, actually, I went past the wizard thing to the scorpion looking thing in the next room (the room with the psycho shield).  That thing gives you 608 exp, while the wizard thing gives you 678 (I think), but when I fight the wizard I have to use Barrier or else I die pretty quickly, so your MP gets sucked up pretty quick, too.  I thought leveling up in the next room might be better.  It wasn't.  It took almost 8 minutes to get to level 13.  I timed how long it took to level up from 11 to 13 the old way (archers outside Goa with Power Ring equipped) and it took only 4:30.  I don't know if you have some secret trick, but I can't imagine that it takes less that 4:30 to level up when you're in Styx.[/quote]

I think I explained it bad.
When you're climbing the stairs in front of him hug the left wall, then just go straight up and down from that position. If you're on the correct vertical axis, you shoul be able to walk straight up and enter the next room if he's not there, but you'd be hugging the left wall as you went through the door.
All his shots will be to your right.

[quote]First, there's no need to do the trick on the statue island, doing it from Kensu's hut is fine.  Here's why:  Since you can still attack while you're in "flight," and you can't get hit by anything on the ground (or in the sea), it makes sense that this is the perfect time to level up.  Here's what I do: 
 
-Give fog lamp to guy, row to Kensu's hut.  Call Dolphin. 
-Ride dolphin to Joel.  Go in Joel and leave (to allow entrance into Evil Spirit Island).  Call dolphin. 
-Ride back to Kensu's hut and start flying. 
-Get the Love Pendant from the channel under the palace. 
-Go to Evil Spirit Island and level up two levels while flying.  You can't get hurt or poisoned while you're flying.  Kill the first two turtles and leave.  Do that a billion times until you're at level 11. 
-Get Barrier and go to Swan. 
 
That seems to be the fastest way to level up, and the best part is that you can't get hurt!  I timed it and it takes about 3 minutes to go from level 9 to level 11 in this way. [/quote]

It's somewhat debatable on whether it'd be faster to do that trick first of not. Riding the dolphin is faster than flight speed, and doing it from the island where you place the statue places you right next to the whirlpool anyway. I figure use the dolphin for the speed until I'm ready to leave, then use the trick after.

[quote]In the cave outside of Sahara, use the Warrior Ring.  That's definitely faster and safer than stabbing, even with the power ring equipped.  I never even get hit while leveling up in there.  I'm usually at full health and full MP when I go into the pyramid. [/quote]

For the scorpions, it takes 3 stabs with Power Ring, and if I can keep a good rythym up I pretty much never stop moving (I just get poisoned about 30 times...and I don't bother curing it since it's just going to keep happening  ;)). Also they seem to respawn best if you touch the far wall on the north and south sides respectively. Not 100% guaranteed, but a better chance it seems.

Speaking of respawning, it seems that picking up the money dropped by the Blue Mushrooms seems to help with their respawn rate too...I don't know why.

[quote]For level 13-14 in Goa Fortress 3F, the best place is to go immediately to the southwest door after entering Mado's area.  If you walk back and forth far enough, you can get the two purple spider things to respawn.  Of all the enemies in the game, those are the most annoying for their respawning.[/quote]

For the Spiders, I found that you should touch the right wall after killing the one at the fork, then hug the lower wall on the way back to the one near the Steel wall, and touch the left wall before you kill it. Again, not 100% guaranteed, but it seems to help a bit.

[quote]I did the same for my 1:22 video, but I think it would be faster to just level up to 4 before going to resuce the kid and get the fire sword.  The reason why I didn't do it is because I don't use an inn until after I rescue the kid and get the fire sword, so I was usually dangerously low on HP/MP.[/quote]

I chose to do it this way since I use a Pair of Warp Boots right after getting the Ball of Fire. It allowed me to get both levels in the same spot without much trouble. Plus the 50 XP you get from the Giant Insect, and the 20-30 you get on the way from Brynmaer to Mt. Sabre South is a good lead in to level 6 (occasionally I don't have to backtrack for XP because of this, depending on spawns). I'm usually low on HP and out of MP by that point as well, thus the reason I stop killing Axethrowers at $195. Mushrooms are much easier kills anyway.

[quote]Yeah, I do the same, I think I have 8 exp before I get the windmill key.[/quote]

I usually have 13, 10 from humanoid things, and 3 from Slimes.

Level 6-7
[quote]I think it might be faster, and it's definitely safer; you don't have to walk as far.  It's probably about the same. [/quote]

I need at least $700 before arriving in Portoa, $200 for Inns (before and after Waterfall Cave) and $500 + the $1500 I'll earn from the Medusas for the Platinum Armor. I think Once I have that I'll switch to your method.

tmont

2005-10-11 11:41:58 pm

Not going to school today

Quote:

I only buy 5 things (not counting Inn trips)
1 Alarm Flute ($50) in Leaf (obviously)
3 Warp Boots ($65 x3) in Brynmaer after visiting Oak for the first time.
1 Platinum Armor ($2000) in Portoa after returning from the waterfall cave.

No antidotes? I'm impressed. Smiley

Quote:

Platinum Armor is bought to compensate for my overly aggresive attack style.

Where exactly do you need it? The only place I can think of where you'd need armor is when you fight the archers, but you said that you're not doing that anymore.

Quote:

Then there's also Inn trips:
-Once in Brynmaer ($20) before heading to Mt. Sabre South.
-Once in Oak ($40) before heading to Mt. Sabre North.

Does this mean that you don't use an inn until after you defeat the Insect? That was my initial strategy, but I usually get too aggressive with the axethrowers, and have to use an inn after rescuing the kid.

Quote:

I think I explained it bad.
When you're climbing the stairs in front of him hug the left wall, then just go straight up and down from that position. If you're on the correct vertical axis, you shoul be able to walk straight up and enter the next room if he's not there, but you'd be hugging the left wall as you went through the door.
All his shots will be to your right.

I'll try it out, but I'm still not convinced that's faster.

Quote:

It's somewhat debatable on whether it'd be faster to do that trick first of not. Riding the dolphin is faster than flight speed, and doing it from the island where you place the statue places you right next to the whirlpool anyway. I figure use the dolphin for the speed until I'm ready to leave, then use the trick after.

The way I see it, you only need speed to get the Love Pendant. After that, you're just riding back and forth. And the main advantage to using the flight trick earlier is that you won't get poisoned (which happened quite often to me, for some reason). The other disadvantage to using the trick early is that you have no MP once you get to Swan. Try it my way once: you'll find that killing things without having to worry about getting hit is very satisfying. Smiley

Quote:

For the scorpions, it takes 3 stabs with Power Ring, and if I can keep a good rythym up I pretty much never stop moving (I just get poisoned about 30 times...and I don't bother curing it since it's just going to keep happening ;)).

Maybe I'll try that. Sounds sexy.

Quote:

Speaking of respawning, it seems that picking up the money dropped by the Blue Mushrooms seems to help with their respawn rate too...I don't know why.

I noticed that too. I don't know.

Quote:

For the Spiders, I found that you should touch the right wall after killing the one at the fork, then hug the lower wall on the way back to the one near the Steel wall, and touch the left wall before you kill it. Again, not 100% guaranteed, but it seems to help a bit.

That's essentially what I do, but I always walk farther than I should, because I don't want to give them a chance to NOT respawn.

Also, I did some experimenting with the trigger to open Mt. Sabre North (which is going to Leaf and talking to the rabbit). If you just teleport to Leaf, all the townspeople are still there. All you really have to do is enter Zebu's cave via Mt. Sabre; you don't have to go all the way into Leaf. This way, when you're done leveling up in Mt. Sabre South, you can just teleport to Leaf and talk to the rabbit instead of walking all the way there and all the way back. Disclaimer: You might have to break the icewall right behind Zebu, though. Didn't test that.

[quote]
I only buy 5 things (not counting Inn trips)
1 Alarm Flute ($50) in Leaf (obviously)
3 Warp Boots ($65 x3) in Brynmaer after visiting Oak for the first time.
1 Platinum Armor ($2000) in Portoa after returning from the waterfall cave.
[/quote]
No antidotes?  I'm impressed. :)

[quote]Platinum Armor is bought to compensate for my overly aggresive attack style.[/quote]
Where exactly do you need it?  The only place I can think of where you'd need armor is when you fight the archers, but you said that you're not doing that anymore.
[quote]
Then there's also Inn trips:
-Once in Brynmaer ($20) before heading to Mt. Sabre South.
-Once in Oak ($40) before heading to Mt. Sabre North.
[/quote]
Does this mean that you don't use an inn until after you defeat the Insect?  That was my initial strategy, but I usually get too aggressive with the axethrowers, and have to use an inn after rescuing the kid.

[quote]
I think I explained it bad.
When you're climbing the stairs in front of him hug the left wall, then just go straight up and down from that position. If you're on the correct vertical axis, you shoul be able to walk straight up and enter the next room if he's not there, but you'd be hugging the left wall as you went through the door.
All his shots will be to your right.[/quote]
I'll try it out, but I'm still not convinced that's faster.

[quote]
It's somewhat debatable on whether it'd be faster to do that trick first of not. Riding the dolphin is faster than flight speed, and doing it from the island where you place the statue places you right next to the whirlpool anyway. I figure use the dolphin for the speed until I'm ready to leave, then use the trick after.[/quote]
The way I see it, you only need speed to get the Love Pendant.  After that, you're just riding back and forth.  And the main advantage to using the flight trick earlier is that you won't get poisoned (which happened quite often to me, for some reason).  The other disadvantage to using the trick early is that you have no MP once you get to Swan.  Try it my way once: you'll find that killing things without having to worry about getting hit is very satisfying. :)

[quote]
For the scorpions, it takes 3 stabs with Power Ring, and if I can keep a good rythym up I pretty much never stop moving (I just get poisoned about 30 times...and I don't bother curing it since it's just going to keep happening  ;)). [/quote]
Maybe I'll try that.  Sounds sexy.
[quote]
Speaking of respawning, it seems that picking up the money dropped by the Blue Mushrooms seems to help with their respawn rate too...I don't know why.[/quote]
I noticed that too.  I don't know.

[quote]
For the Spiders, I found that you should touch the right wall after killing the one at the fork, then hug the lower wall on the way back to the one near the Steel wall, and touch the left wall before you kill it. Again, not 100% guaranteed, but it seems to help a bit.[/quote]
That's essentially what I do, but I always walk farther than I should, because I don't want to give them a chance to NOT respawn.

Also, I did some experimenting with the trigger to open Mt. Sabre North (which is going to Leaf and talking to the rabbit).  If you just teleport to Leaf, all the townspeople are still there.  All you really have to do is enter Zebu's cave via Mt. Sabre; you don't have to go all the way into Leaf.  This way, when you're done leveling up in Mt. Sabre South, you can just teleport to Leaf and talk to the rabbit instead of walking all the way there and all the way back.  Disclaimer: You might have to break the icewall right behind Zebu, though.  Didn't test that.

Dragondarch

2005-10-12 09:40:19 am

Pudding%

Quote:

No antidotes? I'm impressed.

Yeah, though 90% of my runs end in the Windmill Cave due to poisoning. Mt. Sabre South isn't a big deal as long as I can keep from getting poisoned until closer to Tornel. Mt. Sabre North there's only one hallway where it can happen, and the same for the waterfall cave. When it comes to the Kirisa Plant cave it's really not a big deal. Hell, if I get paralyzed in there I intentionally get poisoned just to get rid of the paralysis Tongue

Quote:

Where exactly do you need it? The only place I can think of where you'd need armor is when you fight the archers, but you said that you're not doing that anymore.

Just in general. Platinum is a good piece of armor regardless of time of game, and it does well until I get the Psycho Armor from the Pyramid. Besides, I have the money on hand...might as well use it Wink

Quote:

Does this mean that you don't use an inn until after you defeat the Insect?

Yeah, I used to use one before heading to Stom's Hut, but having $215 on hand at that point ins't as easy as one would think. Depending on my HP/MP level I sometimes just stop killing axethrowers (even if they're in my way) as soon as I get $195.

Quote:

That was my initial strategy, but I usually get too aggressive with the axethrowers, and have to use an inn after rescuing the kid.

Thus the reason I switched to levelling up on the Mushrooms Wink

Quote:

I'll try it out, but I'm still not convinced that's faster.

I managed for it to be 59 seconds faster, and much safer as well. Give it a shot Smiley

Quote:

The way I see it, you only need speed to get the Love Pendant. After that, you're just riding back and forth. And the main advantage to using the flight trick earlier is that you won't get poisoned (which happened quite often to me, for some reason). The other disadvantage to using the trick early is that you have no MP once you get to Swan. Try it my way once: you'll find that killing things without having to worry about getting hit is very satisfying.

Hmm...now that I think of it, it might be possible to kill them without having to stop moving...then again I usually kill all 6 in there so only doing the first 2 might alleviate that problem.
I almost want to say that it would be best to head to Joel to open the Warp Point, then go get the Love Pendant, Teleport back to Joel, then start flying. This would also prevent me from forgetting to use the Inn in Shyron since I would have to do it in Swan instead (lost a good run in Cave of Styx because I forgot to use an Inn and ran out of MP before the shooting statues :-X)

Quote:

Also, I did some experimenting with the trigger to open Mt. Sabre North (which is going to Leaf and talking to the rabbit). If you just teleport to Leaf, all the townspeople are still there. All you really have to do is enter Zebu's cave via Mt. Sabre; you don't have to go all the way into Leaf. This way, when you're done leveling up in Mt. Sabre South, you can just teleport to Leaf and talk to the rabbit instead of walking all the way there and all the way back. Disclaimer: You might have to break the icewall right behind Zebu, though. Didn't test that.

I tested that one out as well. The trigger for the townspeople to disappear is actually talking to Zebu, and the trigger for the path to Mt. Sabre north is that damned dog. The way I've been doing it now is to talk to Zebu via Mt. Sabre South, then finish that up, Teleport to Leaf, then Oak and head out.

[quote]No antidotes?  I'm impressed. [/quote]

Yeah, though 90% of my runs end in the Windmill Cave due to poisoning. Mt. Sabre South isn't a big deal as long as I can keep from getting poisoned until closer to Tornel. Mt. Sabre North there's only one hallway where it can happen, and the same for the waterfall cave. When it comes to the Kirisa Plant cave it's really not a big deal. Hell, if I get paralyzed in there I intentionally get poisoned just to get rid of the paralysis  :P

[quote]Where exactly do you need it?  The only place I can think of where you'd need armor is when you fight the archers, but you said that you're not doing that anymore.[/quote]

Just in general. Platinum is a good piece of armor regardless of time of game, and it does well until I get the Psycho Armor from the Pyramid. Besides, I have the money on hand...might as well use it  ;)

[quote]Does this mean that you don't use an inn until after you defeat the Insect? [/quote]

Yeah, I used to use one before heading to Stom's Hut, but having $215 on hand at that point ins't as easy as one would think. Depending on my HP/MP level I sometimes just stop killing axethrowers (even if they're in my way) as soon as I get $195.

[quote]That was my initial strategy, but I usually get too aggressive with the axethrowers, and have to use an inn after rescuing the kid.[/quote]

Thus the reason I switched to levelling up on the Mushrooms  ;)

[quote]I'll try it out, but I'm still not convinced that's faster. [/quote]

I managed for it to be 59 seconds faster, and much safer as well. Give it a shot  :)

[quote]The way I see it, you only need speed to get the Love Pendant.  After that, you're just riding back and forth.  And the main advantage to using the flight trick earlier is that you won't get poisoned (which happened quite often to me, for some reason).  The other disadvantage to using the trick early is that you have no MP once you get to Swan.  Try it my way once: you'll find that killing things without having to worry about getting hit is very satisfying.  [/quote]

Hmm...now that I think of it, it might be possible to kill them without having to stop moving...then again I usually kill all 6 in there so only doing the first 2 might alleviate that problem. 
I almost want to say that it would be best to head to Joel to open the Warp Point, then go get the Love Pendant, Teleport back to Joel, then start flying. This would also prevent me from forgetting to use the Inn in Shyron since I would have to do it in Swan instead (lost a good run in Cave of Styx because I forgot to use an Inn and ran out of MP before the shooting statues  :-X)

[quote]Also, I did some experimenting with the trigger to open Mt. Sabre North (which is going to Leaf and talking to the rabbit).  If you just teleport to Leaf, all the townspeople are still there.  All you really have to do is enter Zebu's cave via Mt. Sabre; you don't have to go all the way into Leaf.  This way, when you're done leveling up in Mt. Sabre South, you can just teleport to Leaf and talk to the rabbit instead of walking all the way there and all the way back.  Disclaimer: You might have to break the icewall right behind Zebu, though.  Didn't test that. [/quote]

I tested that one out as well. The trigger for the townspeople to disappear is actually talking to Zebu, and the trigger for the path to Mt. Sabre north is that damned dog. The way I've been doing it now is to talk to Zebu via Mt. Sabre South, then finish that up, Teleport to Leaf, then Oak and head out.

tmont

2005-10-12 07:20:00 pm

Not going to school today

Quote:

Yeah, though 90% of my runs end in the Windmill Cave due to poisoning.

Mine too.

Quote:

Hell, if I get paralyzed in there I intentionally get poisoned just to get rid of the paralysis Tongue

I wasn't even aware of that. Wow.

Quote:

I managed for it to be 59 seconds faster, and much safer as well. Give it a shot Smiley

I tested it, and it might be a little faster than leveling up on the archers. I don't use your Barrier trick (which was cool, by the way), but I end up leveling up in about 4:30, while leveling up on the wizard-that-shoots-ninja-stars-out-of-his-forehead took about 4:45, depending on if I screwed up the respawns. I like the archer method, just because I don't have to worry about respawns. It's also a little more interesting to watch, too.

Quote:

Hmm...now that I think of it, it might be possible to kill them without having to stop moving...then again I usually kill all 6 in there so only doing the first 2 might alleviate that problem.
I almost want to say that it would be best to head to Joel to open the Warp Point, then go get the Love Pendant, Teleport back to Joel, then start flying.

I think this is the fastest way (and killing the first two and then leaving is definitely faster than killing all 6 every time), and you definitely never have to stop moving when you're flying (at least I don't). I haven't been able to start flying from Joel, so it's easier for me to ride back to Kensu's hut and start flying right after entering and exiting Joel.

Quote:

(lost a good run in Cave of Styx because I forgot to use an Inn and ran out of MP before the shooting statues :-X)

Weak!

Quote:

I tested that one out as well. The trigger for the townspeople to disappear is actually talking to Zebu, and the trigger for the path to Mt. Sabre north is that damned dog. The way I've been doing it now is to talk to Zebu via Mt. Sabre South, then finish that up, Teleport to Leaf, then Oak and head out.

Ah.

From your previous run, you were kind of hazy on the triggers. Here's what I can recall:

-Instead of talking to the dwarven leader to trigger the battle with Stom, just talk to the dwarf outside of the inn in Oak. You don't have to walk as far.
-Don't talk to Mesia in the Lime Tree (where you get the ball of water).
-To get the Warrior Ring, it's not necessary to talk to Akahana. In fact, you don't have to talk to anyone in Shyron other than Zebu (to get the key to Styx) and Azteca (after getting the Sword of Thunder).
-You don't have to talk to that guy in the bar in Brynmaer.

But you probably knew all of this. Just making sure. Smiley

[quote]

Yeah, though 90% of my runs end in the Windmill Cave due to poisoning. [/quote]
Mine too. :)
[quote]Hell, if I get paralyzed in there I intentionally get poisoned just to get rid of the paralysis  :P[/quote]
I wasn't even aware of that.  Wow.

[quote]
I managed for it to be 59 seconds faster, and much safer as well. Give it a shot  :)[/quote]
I tested it, and it might be a little faster than leveling up on the archers.  I don't use your Barrier trick (which was cool, by the way), but I end up leveling up in about 4:30, while leveling up on the wizard-that-shoots-ninja-stars-out-of-his-forehead took about 4:45, depending on if I screwed up the respawns.  I like the archer method, just because I don't have to worry about respawns.  It's also a little more interesting to watch, too.

[quote]
Hmm...now that I think of it, it might be possible to kill them without having to stop moving...then again I usually kill all 6 in there so only doing the first 2 might alleviate that problem. 
I almost want to say that it would be best to head to Joel to open the Warp Point, then go get the Love Pendant, Teleport back to Joel, then start flying.
[/quote]
I think this is the fastest way (and killing the first two and then leaving is definitely faster than killing all 6 every time), and you definitely never have to stop moving when you're flying (at least I don't).  I haven't been able to start flying from Joel, so it's easier for me to ride back to Kensu's hut and start flying right after entering and exiting Joel.  
[quote](lost a good run in Cave of Styx because I forgot to use an Inn and ran out of MP before the shooting statues  :-X)[/quote]
Weak!

[quote]
I tested that one out as well. The trigger for the townspeople to disappear is actually talking to Zebu, and the trigger for the path to Mt. Sabre north is that damned dog. The way I've been doing it now is to talk to Zebu via Mt. Sabre South, then finish that up, Teleport to Leaf, then Oak and head out.[/quote]
Ah.

From your previous run, you were kind of hazy on the triggers.  Here's what I can recall:

-Instead of talking to the dwarven leader to trigger the battle with Stom, just talk to the dwarf outside of the inn in Oak.  You don't have to walk as far.
-Don't talk to Mesia in the Lime Tree (where you get the ball of water).
-To get the Warrior Ring, it's not necessary to talk to Akahana.  In fact, you don't have to talk to anyone in Shyron other than Zebu (to get the key to Styx) and Azteca (after getting the Sword of Thunder).
-You don't have to talk to that guy in the bar in Brynmaer.

But you probably knew all of this.  Just making sure. :)

Dragondarch

2005-10-12 08:49:13 pm

Pudding%

Quote:

I tested it, and it might be a little faster than leveling up on the archers. I don't use your Barrier trick (which was cool, by the way), but I end up leveling up in about 4:30, while leveling up on the wizard-that-shoots-ninja-stars-out-of-his-forehead took about 4:45, depending on if I screwed up the respawns. I like the archer method, just because I don't have to worry about respawns. It's also a little more interesting to watch, too.

I should mention that it was 59 seconds faster starting from the point you enter Swan for the first time, up until you enter Goa Fortress after killing Mado 1...so some of that time might have come from elsewhere.

I can pretty much guarantee that doing it until level 12 is faster, but Power Ring on the Archers might be faster for 12-13...or about the same.

I just know I haven't screwed up the respawn in a while.

Quote:

I think this is the fastest way (and killing the first two and then leaving is definitely faster than killing all 6 every time), and you definitely never have to stop moving when you're flying (at least I don't). I haven't been able to start flying from Joel, so it's easier for me to ride back to Kensu's hut and start flying right after entering and exiting Joel.

Like I said, I think it would be a little faster to use the dolphin to get the Love Pendant, then a quick teleport back to Joel before flying. I'm not saying by much, probably 10 seconds at most.

Quote:

Weak!

Yeah, that's what I said after the 30 second long string of swearing and beating my head against my bedroom wall :-[

Quote:

-Instead of talking to the dwarven leader to trigger the battle with Stom, just talk to the dwarf outside of the inn in Oak. You don't have to walk as far.
-Don't talk to Mesia in the Lime Tree (where you get the ball of water).
-To get the Warrior Ring, it's not necessary to talk to Akahana. In fact, you don't have to talk to anyone in Shyron other than Zebu (to get the key to Styx) and Azteca (after getting the Sword of Thunder).
-You don't have to talk to that guy in the bar in Brynmaer.

But you probably knew all of this. Just making sure.

Yup. Already got all these figured out. Although I'm thinking that you may not even have to talk to anyone in Oak...

When you try to enter the Island Fortress before entering Joel, it tells you to speak with the Elder in Joel. But you only have to activate it as a warp point to trigger it. I think just activating Oak as a warp point may be enough (not sure on this though...need to test...not that it would save much time anyway ;))

[quote]I tested it, and it might be a little faster than leveling up on the archers.  I don't use your Barrier trick (which was cool, by the way), but I end up leveling up in about 4:30, while leveling up on the wizard-that-shoots-ninja-stars-out-of-his-forehead took about 4:45, depending on if I screwed up the respawns.  I like the archer method, just because I don't have to worry about respawns.  It's also a little more interesting to watch, too. [/quote]

I should mention that it was 59 seconds faster starting from the point you enter Swan for the first time, up until you enter Goa Fortress after killing Mado 1...so some of that time might have come from elsewhere.

I can pretty much guarantee that doing it until level 12 is faster, but Power Ring on the Archers might be faster for 12-13...or about the same.

I just know I haven't screwed up the respawn in a while.

[quote]I think this is the fastest way (and killing the first two and then leaving is definitely faster than killing all 6 every time), and you definitely never have to stop moving when you're flying (at least I don't).  I haven't been able to start flying from Joel, so it's easier for me to ride back to Kensu's hut and start flying right after entering and exiting Joel.[/quote]

Like I said, I think it would be a little faster to use the dolphin to get the Love Pendant, then a quick teleport back to Joel before flying. I'm not saying by much, probably 10 seconds at most.

[quote]Weak! [/quote]

Yeah, that's what I said after the 30 second long string of swearing and beating my head against my bedroom wall  :-[
[quote]-Instead of talking to the dwarven leader to trigger the battle with Stom, just talk to the dwarf outside of the inn in Oak.  You don't have to walk as far. 
-Don't talk to Mesia in the Lime Tree (where you get the ball of water). 
-To get the Warrior Ring, it's not necessary to talk to Akahana.  In fact, you don't have to talk to anyone in Shyron other than Zebu (to get the key to Styx) and Azteca (after getting the Sword of Thunder). 
-You don't have to talk to that guy in the bar in Brynmaer.   
 
But you probably knew all of this.  Just making sure. [/quote]

Yup. Already got all these figured out. Although I'm thinking that you may not even have to talk to anyone in Oak...

When you try to enter the Island Fortress before entering Joel, it tells you to speak with the Elder in Joel. But you only have to activate it as a warp point to trigger it. I think just activating Oak as a warp point may be enough (not sure on this though...need to test...not that it would save much time anyway  ;))

tmont

Edit history:

tmont: 2005-10-13 03:47:26 am

2005-10-12 10:26:26 pm

Not going to school today

Quote:

Yup. Already got all these figured out. Although I'm thinking that you may not even have to talk to anyone in Oak...

When you try to enter the Island Fortress before entering Joel, it tells you to speak with the Elder in Joel. But you only have to activate it as a warp point to trigger it. I think just activating Oak as a warp point may be enough (not sure on this though...need to test...not that it would save much time anyway ;))

I don't think so. I tested that out a couple weeks ago when I started doing this, and Tornel wouldn't let me fight Stom until I talked to someone in Oak. And yeah, it would probably only save about 3 seconds, which is fairly inconsequential in a >60 minute run.

Oh and about that fight: do you ever have trouble beating Stom the third time? Sometimes it's impossible, and I have to wait until the fourth time to do it. I can't figure out why.

Quote:

I can pretty much guarantee that doing it until level 12 is faster, but Power Ring on the Archers might be faster for 12-13...or about the same.

Why do you think it would be faster until level 12? When you have the power ring equipped, the archers take two hits if you're on level 11 or 12. So if one way is faster up to a certain point, it's probably faster the whole way. And I use a level 1 charged shot on the archers, instead of stabbing them. And I also get the power ring immediately after killing Mado (on level 11), so I'd have it equipped the entire time I annihilate the archers.

Quote:

Like I said, I think it would be a little faster to use the dolphin to get the Love Pendant, then a quick teleport back to Joel before flying. I'm not saying by much, probably 10 seconds at most.

You're right. I think I was thinking of something else.

Edit: You do have to talk to someone in Oak to trigger the Stom battle. And you don't have to talk to Zebu to make the Leafers (people from Leaf :)) disappear, you only have to "use your power to open the way" (destroy the ice wall).

[quote]
Yup. Already got all these figured out. Although I'm thinking that you may not even have to talk to anyone in Oak...

When you try to enter the Island Fortress before entering Joel, it tells you to speak with the Elder in Joel. But you only have to activate it as a warp point to trigger it. I think just activating Oak as a warp point may be enough (not sure on this though...need to test...not that it would save much time anyway  ;))[/quote]
I don't think so.  I tested that out a couple weeks ago when I started doing this, and Tornel wouldn't let me fight Stom until I talked to someone in Oak.  And yeah, it would probably only save about 3 seconds, which is fairly inconsequential in a >60 minute run.

Oh and about that fight: do you ever have trouble beating Stom the third time?  Sometimes it's impossible, and I have to wait until the fourth time to do it.  I can't figure out why.

[quote]I can pretty much guarantee that doing it until level 12 is faster, but Power Ring on the Archers might be faster for 12-13...or about the same.[/quote]
Why do you think it would be faster until level 12?  When you have the power ring equipped, the archers take two hits if you're on level 11 or 12.  So if one way is faster up to a certain point, it's probably faster the whole way.  And I use a level 1 charged shot on the archers, instead of stabbing them.  And I also get the power ring immediately after killing Mado (on level 11), so I'd have it equipped the entire time I annihilate the archers.

[quote]Like I said, I think it would be a little faster to use the dolphin to get the Love Pendant, then a quick teleport back to Joel before flying. I'm not saying by much, probably 10 seconds at most. [/quote]
You're right.  I think I was thinking of something else.

Edit: You do have to talk to someone in Oak to trigger the Stom battle.  And you don't have to talk to Zebu to make the Leafers (people from Leaf :)) disappear, you only have to "use your power to open the way" (destroy the ice wall).

tmont

2005-10-13 11:01:50 pm

Not going to school today

I just screwed up a pretty frickin' good run because I forgot to get the Bow of the Sun from Mt. Hydra. 1:07:35 into the run, and... I press stop and rewind. Fantastic. I was not pleased. I estimate that would've been about 1:13. Awesome.

Dragondarch

2005-10-14 11:50:41 am

Pudding%

OK, I watched through my old run from where I said I saved 59 seconds...a lot of it wasn't from levelling on the archers. It looks like I could have improved the levelling itself by 15 to 20 seconds or so, which would make the archers faster to level on than the purple mage.

However, it is definitely faster to level by using stab/Barrier than it is to charge shots, since you don't have to wait for the charge.

Quote:

I just screwed up a pretty frickin' good run because I forgot to get the Bow of the Sun from Mt. Hydra. 1:07:35 into the run, and... I press stop and rewind. Fantastic. I was not pleased. I estimate that would've been about 1:13. Awesome.

Where were you when you stopped?

tmont

Edit history:

tmont: 2005-10-15 01:09:35 am

2005-10-14 10:37:07 pm

Not going to school today

Right before going to fight Emperor Draygon's second form, at the statues of the Moon and Sun. Sounds like a bad Pink Floyd album. Smiley

Quote:

However, it is definitely faster to level by using stab/Barrier than it is to charge shots, since you don't have to wait for the charge.

I don't know, because if you use Barrier, you have to go an inn at least once, even if you don't get hit (or use a magic ring or something). And waiting for the charge doesn't take that long, since you can kill most of the archers with one hit (hitting them twice with one shot). And also, I suck at it. I get hit all the time, and I have to hold my controller a different way to do it at all. Maybe I'll give it a try again, though. Time it, and see if it's less than 4:30, which is how long it took me to level up my way. I know I can't get lower than that in any other way without significant practice.