Clive Barker's Jericho (PC, Hard) [UPDATE: videos]

2009-02-02 04:59:56 am

Vae Victus!

I wasn't playing much recently (I just discovered Portal and I just had to finish it Wink

), but I did some levels in quite final times. Well, one important notice about "final" levels. In terms of Jericho's gameplay, it doesn't mean perfect in all meanings. It just means that the time is great and the route is optimal. Not every single monster has to be shot in the eye, it's not that type of game. Of course, for viewer's pleasure, I try to rerun the level when there's low number of fixed monsters and I make some badly miss. But when there are plenty of them and there's one shot dodged or badly aimed - well, who cares? Such things happen. And the most important thing is: redoing such level and hitting every single monster doesn't have to make the time any better. If it was so simple, I wouldn't upload levels where I miss or accidentally hit an obstacle. Sometimes we get very lucky and mysteriously 10 hits-to-die boss turns out to be 4 hits-to-die. Or your team actually kills efficiently. Or just doesn't die, whatever. And you try to achieve that again because the gameplay wasn't perfect and you save 2 or 3 seconds in more efficient killing, moving, character switching, which is nothing compared to 15 seconds saved by just pure luck. Of course - you may say that the runner should try to redo it because it's theoretically doable... but sorry, try it for yourself and feel free to beat me. I won't waste a week and my nerves to beat 2 seconds in a 2h run.

Here are the updates:
- vid for 03 Op. Vigil is available (I was testing using different codec - some low quality h.264 preset in Apple's Compressor; I finally see Fraps encoded videos on Mac!)
- 07 Still With You in 01:36 with better gameplay (was 01:37)
- 08 The Path of Souls in 03:32 (was 03:44)
- 09 Blackwatch in 02:49 (sub 3m was aimed for, was 03:09)
- 23 Temple of Pain in 03:48 (sub 4m50s was aimed for - I discovered alternative tactics here; there's still a place for improvement I think)

I'll upload rest of videos and link them probably without making new post here, so if anyone's interested - check it in a couple of days.

And one more thing:
I was wondering if the run would look better in one big piece? Or just leave the levels individual alone? Because if anyone ever submits improvements, the big piece run will have to be redone and that would be problematic to upkeep. Single piece runs however are better to watch - you can add some level titles with times or something like that...

I wasn't playing much recently (I just discovered Portal and I just had to finish it ;) ), but I did some levels in quite final times. Well, one important notice about "final" levels. In terms of Jericho's gameplay, it doesn't mean perfect in all meanings. It just means that the time is great and the route is optimal. Not every single monster has to be shot in the eye, it's not that type of game. Of course, for viewer's pleasure, I try to rerun the level when there's low number of fixed monsters and I make some badly miss. But when there are plenty of them and there's one shot dodged or badly aimed - well, who cares? Such things happen. And the most important thing is: redoing such level and hitting every single monster doesn't have to make the time any better. If it was so simple, I wouldn't upload levels where I miss or accidentally hit an obstacle. Sometimes we get very lucky and mysteriously 10 hits-to-die boss turns out to be 4 hits-to-die. Or your team actually kills efficiently. Or just doesn't die, whatever. And you try to achieve that again because the gameplay wasn't perfect and you save 2 or 3 seconds in more efficient killing, moving, character switching, which is nothing compared to 15 seconds saved by just pure luck. Of course - you may say that the runner should try to redo it because it's theoretically doable... but sorry, try it for yourself and feel free to beat me. I won't waste a week and my nerves to beat 2 seconds in a 2h run.

Here are the updates:
- vid for 03 Op. Vigil is available (I was testing using different codec - some low quality h.264 preset in Apple's Compressor; I finally see Fraps encoded videos on Mac!)
- 07 Still With You in 01:36 with better gameplay (was 01:37)
- 08 The Path of Souls in 03:32 (was 03:44)
- 09 Blackwatch in 02:49 (sub 3m was aimed for, was 03:09)
- 23 Temple of Pain in 03:48 (sub 4m50s was aimed for - I discovered alternative tactics here; there's still a place for improvement I think)

I'll upload rest of videos and link them probably without making new post here, so if anyone's interested - check it in a couple of days.

And one more thing:
I was wondering if the run would look better in one big piece? Or just leave the levels individual alone? Because if anyone ever submits improvements, the big piece run will have to be redone and that would be problematic to upkeep. Single piece runs however are better to watch - you can add some level titles with times or something like that...

Ewil

2009-02-02 05:19:08 am

I'd keep it as invididual levels since you mentioned you get same weapons and ammo in every level.

And yes, hitting every monster asap doesn't have to improve the final time, but it sure looks better than in cases you miss.

Ugm

2009-02-05 05:45:37 am

Vae Victus!

News:
- 18 Tortured Souls 06:34 (sub 07:50 was aimed for)
- 20 Imperium now aiming for sub 05:00 (was sub 08:00)
- 21 Low Road final time of 02:11 (was 02:16); vid included
- 22 Decadence 03:28 (sub 04:50 was aimed for); vid included
- 23 Temple of Pain 03:33 (was 03:48)

Total expected time went down to 01:44:42, so new aim is 1h40 of total run. Only a small number of levels have "final time" flag, so I'm expecting to go even below that. We'll see.

TheVoid

2009-02-07 08:00:04 pm

I recently finished the game and it's a pretty nice game though extremely linear Smiley

So now I'm unlocking all extra content and also checking the levels a bit.

I've got a better strategy for the level Flesh. I've quickly made a video which isn't exactly a very good try but it's just to show it. But this video is already 41 seconds faster than your current run.

Video

It's funny that the end gets bugged and it's probably because I finish the boss a bit too fast Wink

Leaving Cole and Church behind, saves some teleporting time though! Sometimes Rawlings just keeps on walking and then he'll bump into the door Wink

It's also possible that Rawlings already had the Explosive bullets equipped after the flying enemy fight (That's why you see me shooting a bit to check if he had them equipped, which he didn't this time...). I believe that if you walk a bit further into the second area with the flying enemies, then Rawlings will take his position behind a pillar in the back next to the stairs, which is a perfect close-by location.

I'll keep checking stuff.

I recently finished the game and it's a pretty nice game though extremely linear :)
So now I'm unlocking all extra content and also checking the levels a bit.

I've got a better strategy for the level Flesh. I've quickly made a video which isn't exactly a very good try but it's just to show it. But this video is already 41 seconds faster than your current run.

[url=http://www.ssdq.org/VIDEOS/Flesh.mp4]Video[/url]

It's funny that the end gets bugged and it's probably because I finish the boss a bit too fast ;) Leaving Cole and Church behind, saves some teleporting time though! Sometimes Rawlings just keeps on walking and then he'll bump into the door ;)
It's also possible that Rawlings already had the Explosive bullets equipped after the flying enemy fight (That's why you see me shooting a bit to check if he had them equipped, which he didn't this time...). I believe that if you walk a bit further into the second area with the flying enemies, then Rawlings will take his position behind a pillar in the back next to the stairs, which is a perfect close-by location.

I'll keep checking stuff.

Ugm

2009-02-09 02:01:37 am

Vae Victus!

Nice! I'm glad that someone except Xiaopang contribute to this speedrun Smiley

I wasn't reruning Sumerian levels in case some new tricks or glitches could be used. So thanks Smiley

Ok, so now your technique. I must admint that I previously tried Rawlings double explosive pistols but I haven't succedeed in doing it in two cycles, like you did. I tried him yestrday though, and still couldn't finish the hanging boss in two rounds. This is the way Jericho works - things can get very lucky sometimes and it's quite difficult to fully repeat that kind of attempt. Or did you have similar time each time you tried that level? Smiley

Another thing is with that priestess who is sometimes shielded after killing her protector, sometimes now. I don't have to say what impact it has on final time. In vid you sent, the cultists weren't even spawned! And the ending... yeah, quite buggy. Last levels are heavily scripted and the game occasionally acts unpredictably. I had the issue you'd mentioned - Rawlings moving towards the door followed by a minute of nothing and then screen going white to finish the level. I don't think it saved my time, though Tongue

Anyway, if you know of something certain to achieve with Rawlings technique, please, let me know. I'm quite tired of trying to beat heavily luck dependant factors in this game...

And my updates:

- 06 Man Down! 05:22 (sub 06:00 was aimed for, was 06:06); vid included; 2 deaths included (to be redone)
- 19 Black Rose 03:02 (sub 04:00 was aimed for, was 04:05); vid included; probably final
- 23 Temple of Pain 03:23 (was 03:33); vid included; too much luck is a bad thing (to be redone)
- 24 Gardens of Hell 01:27 (sub 01:30 was aimed for, was 01:31); vid included; probably final
- 30 Flesh 02:41 - just a couple of seconds improvement so far

Total time dropped down by more than 2 minutes to ~1h42m.

Thanks for your help, TheVoid. I'm expecting more Smiley

Heh, it's like beating IL without submitting the run Wink

Nice! I'm glad that someone except Xiaopang contribute to this speedrun :) I wasn't reruning Sumerian levels in case some new tricks or glitches could be used. So thanks :)

Ok, so now your technique. I must admint that I previously tried Rawlings double explosive pistols but I haven't succedeed in doing it in two cycles, like you did. I tried him yestrday though, and still couldn't finish the hanging boss in two rounds. This is the way Jericho works - things can get very lucky sometimes and it's quite difficult to fully repeat that kind of attempt. Or did you have similar time each time you tried that level? :) Another thing is with that priestess who is sometimes shielded after killing her protector, sometimes now. I don't have to say what impact it has on final time. In vid you sent, the cultists weren't even spawned! And the ending... yeah, quite buggy. Last levels are heavily scripted and the game occasionally acts unpredictably. I had the issue you'd mentioned - Rawlings moving towards the door followed by a minute of nothing and then screen going white to finish the level. I don't think it saved my time, though :P

Anyway, if you know of something certain to achieve with Rawlings technique, please, let me know. I'm quite tired of trying to beat heavily luck dependant factors in this game...

And my updates:

- 06 Man Down! 05:22 (sub 06:00 was aimed for, was 06:06); vid included; 2 deaths included (to be redone)
- 19 Black Rose 03:02 (sub 04:00 was aimed for, was 04:05); vid included; probably final
- 23 Temple of Pain 03:23 (was 03:33); vid included; too much luck is a bad thing (to be redone)
- 24 Gardens of Hell 01:27 (sub 01:30 was aimed for, was 01:31); vid included; probably final
- 30 Flesh 02:41 - just a couple of seconds improvement so far

Total time dropped down by more than 2 minutes to ~1h42m.

Thanks for your help, TheVoid. I'm expecting more :) Heh, it's like beating IL without submitting the run ;)

Ugm

Edit history:

Ugm: 2009-02-09 02:44:20 am

2009-02-09 02:02:12 am

Vae Victus!

Erm... How can I delete mistakenly sent message?

TheVoid

Edit history:

TheVoid: 2009-02-09 03:21:19 am

2009-02-09 02:57:25 am

Quote from Ugm:

Or did you have similar time each time you tried that level? Smiley

I can get a similar time each time somewhat easily (That is if the blood priestess with the shield cooperates and doesn't spawn those enemies). I can always beat the puppeteer in 2 rounds. In round 1 when she shows her back, just mash the shooting buttons till you pumped 12 bullets in there (If I'm not mistaken only 10 are actually needed in round 1, the first 2 bullets probably don't hit her so you should wait a short moment when she turns around and then shoot. Perhaps you can barely deliver 12 shots in round 1 already which should finish her off Smiley

Although I doubt it). Then immediately shoot at the 4 corpses on the wheels, and then 2 bullets again in her back (Again wait a short moment. You can see in the video that I shot too fast when she turned, it didn't cause any damage, I think).

Quote:

Another thing is with that priestess who is sometimes shielded after killing her protector, sometimes now.

Yep, it probably has something to do with how fast you kill the puppeteer, or it's just completely random Wink

In my video I also missed her a couple of times, I believe that only 2 well-placed Explosive bullets (At the head) are enough to finish her off.

Quote:

Thanks for your help, TheVoid. I'm expecting more Smiley

No problem Smiley

And I've got something else for you. In Skin when you've opened the protective thingy with Jones, immediately switch to Black, walk to the priestess and shoot her in the head twice (Or was it 3 times? EDIT: 2 times is enough) with the normal bullet (Not the Explosive bullet) and she's immediately dead 8)

Also, I haven't checked it yet, but is it possible to use Jones in this level right away and remove the protective thingy?
EDIT: The protective thingy only opens for a short time and you can shoot all you want but she won't be killed. You really need to defeat the other one first.

Quote from Ugm:

Erm... How can I delete mistakenly sent message?

You can't

EDIT: Skin is a piece of cake. When the level starts switch to Black, deliver 5 normal bullet shots to the priestess head and she's toast. Then switch to Jones and remove the protective thingy, immediately switch to Black and deliver 2 normal bullet shots to the head and she's dead. Boss finished Grin

[quote="Ugm"]Or did you have similar time each time you tried that level? :)[/quote]
I can get a similar time each time somewhat easily (That is if the blood priestess with the shield cooperates and doesn't spawn those enemies). I can always beat the puppeteer in 2 rounds. In round 1 when she shows her back, just mash the shooting buttons till you pumped 12 bullets in there (If I'm not mistaken only 10 are actually needed in round 1, the first 2 bullets probably don't hit her so you should wait a short moment when she turns around and then shoot. Perhaps you can barely deliver 12 shots in round 1 already which should finish her off :) Although I doubt it). Then immediately shoot at the 4 corpses on the wheels, and then 2 bullets again in her back (Again wait a short moment. You can see in the video that I shot too fast when she turned, it didn't cause any damage, I think).

[quote]Another thing is with that priestess who is sometimes shielded after killing her protector, sometimes now.[/quote]
Yep, it probably has something to do with how fast you kill the puppeteer, or it's just completely random ;) In my video I also missed her a couple of times, I believe that only 2 well-placed Explosive bullets (At the head) are enough to finish her off.

[quote]Thanks for your help, TheVoid. I'm expecting more :)[/quote]
No problem :)
And I've got something else for you. In Skin when you've opened the protective thingy with Jones, immediately switch to Black, walk to the priestess and shoot her in the head twice (Or was it 3 times? [b]EDIT: 2 times is enough[/b]) with the normal bullet (Not the Explosive bullet) and she's immediately dead 8)

Also, I haven't checked it yet, but is it possible to use Jones in this level right away and remove the protective thingy?
[b]EDIT: The protective thingy only opens for a short time and you can shoot all you want but she won't be killed. You really need to defeat the other one first.[/b]

[quote="Ugm"]Erm... How can I delete mistakenly sent message?[/quote]
You can't ;)

EDIT: Skin is a piece of cake. When the level starts switch to Black, deliver 5 normal bullet shots to the priestess head and she's toast. Then switch to Jones and remove the protective thingy, immediately switch to Black and deliver 2 normal bullet shots to the head and she's dead. Boss finished ;D

Ugm

2009-02-09 04:02:01 am

Vae Victus!

Now I like that Smiley

This game has so many levels that you can't do them all at once. Thanks for helping discovering new strategies, as I was thinking of normal bullets in some indefinite future in Skin's case Smiley

As for Flesh I guess it's aiming at head which I thought is not necessary here since it's hangman's back which we should aim. That was my mistake! Same applies to Skin's. Hmm, 2 priests at Blood have to be hit in theirs hearts and they are easy to kill and as far as other bossess are concerned - Lichtchammer dies by Blood Ward, Maltheus by heavy fire (or maybe it's his head that is most fragile?), Vicus by shooting at his guts and that's all. I was thinking that if you can't blow someone's head, it's not worth aiming, especially when this someone is a level boss Smiley

Thanks for that discovery!

TheVoid

2009-02-09 04:53:04 am

I also found some character stuff.

With Delgado, press the left mousebutton to get the Pistol ready, then press the left mousebutton again to shoot, release left mousebutton and immediately hold the right mousebutton and then hold the left mousebutton. The Gattling Gun will fire at its fastest pace right away, you could maybe use this just before you activate a fight.
You can also hold the right mousebutton and then press the left mousebutton the whole time for single shots, I'm not sure if that's really helpful Wink

With Jones, if you need to reload (Either manually or automatically), when the reload animation starts press the Astral Projection key 1 time. Then you can continue firing a tad sooner Wink

This also works with Black and her Telekinetic push. Cole and her powers. With Rawlings you can also use his power to interrupt the loading animation, but only for his right Pistol Faith.

Heh, with Jones you can press space to switch to another character and then immediately press the Astral Projection key. When you're in another character you can see that he's in his Astral Projection stance. This thing only seems to work with Jones (That the power will be stuck when you switch to another character). Jones will be stuck in his place, he won't move anywhere anymore Wink

You can push him around though...

I also found some character stuff.

With Delgado, press the left mousebutton to get the Pistol ready, then press the left mousebutton again to shoot, release left mousebutton and immediately hold the right mousebutton and then hold the left mousebutton. The Gattling Gun will fire at its fastest pace right away, you could maybe use this just before you activate a fight.
You can also hold the right mousebutton and then press the left mousebutton the whole time for single shots, I'm not sure if that's really helpful ;)

With Jones, if you need to reload (Either manually or automatically), when the reload animation starts press the Astral Projection key 1 time. Then you can continue firing a tad sooner ;)
This also works with Black and her Telekinetic push. Cole and her powers. With Rawlings you can also use his power to interrupt the loading animation, but only for his right Pistol Faith.

Heh, with Jones you can press space to switch to another character and then immediately press the Astral Projection key. When you're in another character you can see that he's in his Astral Projection stance. This thing only seems to work with Jones (That the power will be stuck when you switch to another character). Jones will be stuck in his place, he won't move anywhere anymore ;) You can push him around though...

Ugm

Edit history:

Ugm: 2009-02-09 02:15:32 pm

2009-02-09 05:52:15 am

Vae Victus!

Quote from TheVoid:

With Delgado, press the left mousebutton to get the Pistol ready, then press the left mousebutton again to shoot, release left mousebutton and immediately hold the right mousebutton and then hold the left mousebutton. The Gattling Gun will fire at its fastest pace right away, you could maybe use this just before you activate a fight.

Nice! It's sometimes important to start fire at full speed at once yet not being discovered too soon, especially when running legionnaire-filled levels.

Quote from TheVoid:

With Jones, if you need to reload (Either manually or automatically), when the reload animation starts press the Astral Projection key 1 time. Then you can continue firing a tad sooner Wink

This also works with Black and her Telekinetic push. Cole and her powers. With Rawlings you can also use his power to interrupt the loading animation, but only for his right Pistol Faith.

If this helps to reload Black's grenades faster, then it's one of the best discoveries! But hey... I tried this already in Tortured Souls. When you push while reloading, you sometimes have to reload second time. Anyway the pushing takes a while too, so I won't consider this as a time saver. Unless it's like with her grenades sometimes, that the rifle goes up, yet no grenade is launched. Maybe pressing key for a very little time will cause going into push animation but without actually starting it?

As with Delgado, when you heal someone while using the demon, your hand gets cured and you can use it longer (Xiaopang's recent discovery).

EDIT:

Thanks TheVoid for your suggestions regarding The Skin Smiley

I've managed to achieve 00:40 which makes this level the fastest of all (excluding Sacrifice of course Smiley

). What time were you able to get?
I've killed burning lady after reloading but if you kill her within first round, you end with this caged priest just opposite the starting location making it impossible to take him down with Black standing just by the exit gate (he has strong neck protection then Wink

). Of course these are my observation, I could be just unlucky to get fine setting.

As for the Flesh, I've managed to get 02:14 but still the cultists spawned slowing me down. Yet I had your type of bugged ending Smiley

Anyway the priestess' blood shield appears when the corpses on wheels respawn during your killing of the puppeter. But what are the exact conditions of this respawning - I don't know. Maybe something with the time in which the puppeter dies.

Thanks again for your contribution!

[quote="TheVoid"]
With Delgado, press the left mousebutton to get the Pistol ready, then press the left mousebutton again to shoot, release left mousebutton and immediately hold the right mousebutton and then hold the left mousebutton. The Gattling Gun will fire at its fastest pace right away, you could maybe use this just before you activate a fight.[/quote]

Nice! It's sometimes important to start fire at full speed at once yet not being discovered too soon, especially when running legionnaire-filled levels.

[quote="TheVoid"]
With Jones, if you need to reload (Either manually or automatically), when the reload animation starts press the Astral Projection key 1 time. Then you can continue firing a tad sooner ;)
This also works with Black and her Telekinetic push. Cole and her powers. With Rawlings you can also use his power to interrupt the loading animation, but only for his right Pistol Faith.[/quote]

If this helps to reload Black's grenades faster, then it's one of the best discoveries! But hey... I tried this already in Tortured Souls. When you push while reloading, you sometimes have to reload second time. Anyway the pushing takes a while too, so I won't consider this as a time saver. Unless it's like with her grenades sometimes, that the rifle goes up, yet no grenade is launched. Maybe pressing key for a very little time will cause going into push animation but without actually starting it?

As with Delgado, when you heal someone while using the demon, your hand gets cured and you can use it longer (Xiaopang's recent discovery).

EDIT:

Thanks TheVoid for your suggestions regarding The Skin :) I've managed to achieve 00:40 which makes this level the fastest of all (excluding Sacrifice of course :) ). What time were you able to get?
I've killed burning lady after reloading but if you kill her within first round, you end with this caged priest just opposite the starting location making it impossible to take him down with Black standing just by the exit gate (he has strong neck protection then ;) ). Of course these are my observation, I could be just unlucky to get fine setting.

As for the Flesh, I've managed to get 02:14 but still the cultists spawned slowing me down. Yet I had your type of bugged ending :) Anyway the priestess' blood shield appears when the corpses on wheels respawn during your killing of the puppeter. But what are the exact conditions of this respawning - I don't know. Maybe something with the time in which the puppeter dies.

Thanks again for your contribution!

TheVoid

2009-02-09 06:25:11 pm

Quote from Ugm:

If this helps to reload Black's grenades faster, then it's one of the best discoveries!

It also works with her grenades, it's a tad faster Smiley

Quote:

When you push while reloading, you sometimes have to reload second time.

That has never happened to me yet, it always works for me.

Quote:

Maybe pressing key for a very little time will cause going into push animation but without actually starting it?

Hmm, no idea. Shall check it.

I also still need to compare forward running against straferunning... Grin

But they still feel the same to me (I often check this with your runs when a speech starts, it's always at the same spot. So either the difference is non-existant or VERY minimal).

Quote:

As with Delgado, when you heal someone while using the demon, your hand gets cured and you can use it longer (Xiaopang's recent discovery).

Nice

Quote:

What time were you able to get?

After the attempting session I just had, the best attempt was 0:39 although I'm not pleased with it. Black didn't keep on running in the beginning, I needed to wait for a moment to open the cage, and killing the cage priestess could've been done a bit faster. Here's the attempt. Sometimes the cage priestess dies with 1 shot.

Quote:

I've killed burning lady after reloading but if you kill her within first round, you end with this caged priest just opposite the starting location making it impossible to take him down with Black standing just by the exit gate (he has strong neck protection then Wink

). Of course these are my observation, I could be just unlucky to get fine setting.

Yes you were unlucky Smiley

She always behaves randomly.
Hmm, Black at the exit gate? That never happens to me. Could you upload your 0:40 attempt?

Quote:

But what are the exact conditions of this respawning - I don't know. Maybe something with the time in which the puppeter dies.

I have no idea either... Maybe it depends on how fast you destroy the second wave of corpses, whether the puppeteer is back on her original position or not.

Quote:

Thanks again for your contribution!

No problem, I'm glad I can help a bit Wink

Also, during the Skin attempting session, something strange happened in a messed up attempt. I thought it was pretty funny Smiley

Here's the video.

[quote="Ugm"]If this helps to reload Black's grenades faster, then it's one of the best discoveries![/quote]
It also works with her grenades, it's a tad faster :)

[quote]When you push while reloading, you sometimes have to reload second time.[/quote]
That has never happened to me yet, it always works for me.

[quote]Maybe pressing key for a very little time will cause going into push animation but without actually starting it?[/quote]
Hmm, no idea. Shall check it.

I also still need to compare forward running against straferunning... ;D But they still feel the same to me (I often check this with your runs when a speech starts, it's always at the same spot. So either the difference is non-existant or VERY minimal).

[quote]As with Delgado, when you heal someone while using the demon, your hand gets cured and you can use it longer (Xiaopang's recent discovery).[/quote]
Nice

[quote]What time were you able to get?[/quote]
After the attempting session I just had, the best attempt was 0:39 although I'm not pleased with it. Black didn't keep on running in the beginning, I needed to wait for a moment to open the cage, and killing the cage priestess could've been done a bit faster. [url=http://www.ssdq.org/VIDEOS/Skin_039.mp4]Here's[/url] the attempt. Sometimes the cage priestess dies with 1 shot.

[quote]I've killed burning lady after reloading but if you kill her within first round, you end with this caged priest just opposite the starting location making it impossible to take him down with Black standing just by the exit gate (he has strong neck protection then ;) ). Of course these are my observation, I could be just unlucky to get fine setting.[/quote]
Yes you were unlucky :) She always behaves randomly.
Hmm, Black at the exit gate? That never happens to me. Could you upload your 0:40 attempt?

[quote]But what are the exact conditions of this respawning - I don't know. Maybe something with the time in which the puppeter dies.[/quote]
I have no idea either... Maybe it depends on how fast you destroy the second wave of corpses, whether the puppeteer is back on her original position or not.

[quote]Thanks again for your contribution![/quote]
No problem, I'm glad I can help a bit ;)

Also, during the Skin attempting session, something strange happened in a messed up attempt. I thought it was pretty funny :)
[url=http://www.ssdq.org/VIDEOS/StrangeThing.mp4]Here's the video.[/url]

Ugm

2009-02-10 01:54:37 am

Vae Victus!

Quote from TheVoid:

Quote:

When you push while reloading, you sometimes have to reload second time.

That has never happened to me yet, it always works for me.

In mentioned Tortured Souls in first fight I often use grenades and pushing. The latter interfere with reloading so when I push while reloading, I end up with both wasted time and not reloaded weapon. Strange. Maybe that's because I actually hold the push button, not just press it once Smiley

Quote from TheVoid:

Quote:

What time were you able to get?

After the attempting session I just had, the best attempt was 0:39 although I'm not pleased with it. Black didn't keep on running in the beginning, I needed to wait for a moment to open the cage, and killing the cage priestess could've been done a bit faster. Here's the attempt. Sometimes the cage priestess dies with 1 shot.

Black freezes in 95% cases when I jump to her at the beginning. And yes, caged one sometimes dies instantly.

Quote from TheVoid:

Quote:

I've killed burning lady after reloading but if you kill her within first round, you end with this caged priest just opposite the starting location making it impossible to take him down with Black standing just by the exit gate (he has strong neck protection then Wink

). Of course these are my observation, I could be just unlucky to get fine setting.

Yes you were unlucky Smiley

She always behaves randomly.
Hmm, Black at the exit gate? That never happens to me. Could you upload your 0:40 attempt?

Skin 00:40
I see that we have different movement tactic here. What I meant with caged priestess setting was correct, it's not a bad luck Smiley

You do it too - you wait for the cage to move since you can't open it when it's directly under the corpse you've jumped into (in front of Jones). I found a solution to this - jump to the corpse on the left or right. Thus I open the cage faster, yet it's in this unlucky position that prevents me from killing her from behind (from the exit gate). The best solution would be to send Black far enough to kill her and as close to the gate as possible. Of course there's little time to do this, but I think some 2 seconds can be saved by that. Notice long running time in your vid Wink

Quote from TheVoid:

Also, during the Skin attempting session, something strange happened in a messed up attempt. I thought it was pretty funny Smiley

Here's the video.

Nice one with the cultist! Smiley

Some sort of carebear I suppose Wink

Hmm... as for the table with times... I think I'll have to rebuild it to have a column with a runner name Wink

As long as you want to participate in the final run of course Wink

[quote="TheVoid"]
[quote]When you push while reloading, you sometimes have to reload second time.[/quote]
That has never happened to me yet, it always works for me.
[/quote]

In mentioned Tortured Souls in first fight I often use grenades and pushing. The latter interfere with reloading so when I push while reloading, I end up with both wasted time and not reloaded weapon. Strange. Maybe that's because I actually hold the push button, not just press it once :)

[quote="TheVoid"]
[quote]What time were you able to get?[/quote]
After the attempting session I just had, the best attempt was 0:39 although I'm not pleased with it. Black didn't keep on running in the beginning, I needed to wait for a moment to open the cage, and killing the cage priestess could've been done a bit faster. [url=http://www.ssdq.org/VIDEOS/Skin_039.mp4]Here's[/url] the attempt. Sometimes the cage priestess dies with 1 shot.
[/quote]

Black freezes in 95% cases when I jump to her at the beginning. And yes, caged one sometimes dies instantly.

[quote="TheVoid"]
[quote]I've killed burning lady after reloading but if you kill her within first round, you end with this caged priest just opposite the starting location making it impossible to take him down with Black standing just by the exit gate (he has strong neck protection then ;) ). Of course these are my observation, I could be just unlucky to get fine setting.[/quote]
Yes you were unlucky :) She always behaves randomly.
Hmm, Black at the exit gate? That never happens to me. Could you upload your 0:40 attempt?
[/quote]

[url=http://files.filefront.com/29+Skin+0040/;13256211;/fileinfo.html]Skin 00:40[/url]
I see that we have different movement tactic here. What I meant with caged priestess setting was correct, it's not a bad luck :) You do it too - you wait for the cage to move since you can't open it when it's directly under the corpse you've jumped into (in front of Jones). I found a solution to this - jump to the corpse on the left or right. Thus I open the cage faster, yet it's in this unlucky position that prevents me from killing her from behind (from the exit gate). The best solution would be to send Black far enough to kill her and as close to the gate as possible. Of course there's little time to do this, but I think some 2 seconds can be saved by that. Notice long running time in your vid ;)

[quote="TheVoid"]
Also, during the Skin attempting session, something strange happened in a messed up attempt. I thought it was pretty funny :)
[url=http://www.ssdq.org/VIDEOS/StrangeThing.mp4]Here's the video.[/url]
[/quote]

Nice one with the cultist! :) Some sort of carebear I suppose ;)

Hmm... as for the table with times... I think I'll have to rebuild it to have a column with a runner name ;) As long as you want to participate in the final run of course ;)

TheVoid

2009-02-10 02:43:57 am

Quote from Ugm:

Maybe that's because I actually hold the push button, not just press it once Smiley

I think that could be the reason indeed, I always press it just once and it always works.

Quote:

Black freezes in 95% cases when I jump to her at the beginning.

Yes, you need to switch to her at the right moment. In the StrangeThing.mp4 video I uploaded you can see that she kept on running after I jump to her.

Quote:

What I meant with caged priestess setting was correct, it's not a bad luck Smiley

Yeah I had it happen too, but it doesn't always happen. Often the cage was on the left and I could open it immediately.
But jumping to one of the side corpses is probably better anyway, or rather, jumping to a side corpse gives you a much higher chance of success Wink

Quote:

The best solution would be to send Black far enough to kill her and as close to the gate as possible.

Yeah that was nice in your attempt, saves a bit of walking.

Quote:

Hmm... as for the table with times... I think I'll have to rebuild it to have a column with a runner name Wink

As long as you want to participate in the final run of course Wink

Hehe, sure go ahead Smiley

And on that note, I got a (Though it's not a good run yet) 1:27 for Blood. Now I only need to get the lucky boss spawns like in your run Wink

[quote="Ugm"]Maybe that's because I actually hold the push button, not just press it once :)[/quote]
I think that could be the reason indeed, I always press it just once and it always works.

[quote]Black freezes in 95% cases when I jump to her at the beginning.[/quote]
Yes, you need to switch to her at the right moment. In the StrangeThing.mp4 video I uploaded you can see that she kept on running after I jump to her.

[quote]What I meant with caged priestess setting was correct, it's not a bad luck :)[/quote]
Yeah I had it happen too, but it doesn't always happen. Often the cage was on the left and I could open it immediately.
But jumping to one of the side corpses is probably better anyway, or rather, jumping to a side corpse gives you a much higher chance of success ;)

[quote]The best solution would be to send Black far enough to kill her and as close to the gate as possible.[/quote]
Yeah that was nice in your attempt, saves a bit of walking.

[quote]Hmm... as for the table with times... I think I'll have to rebuild it to have a column with a runner name ;) As long as you want to participate in the final run of course ;)[/quote]
Hehe, sure go ahead :)

And on that note, I got a (Though it's not a good run yet) 1:27 for Blood. Now I only need to get the lucky boss spawns like in your run ;)

Ugm

2009-02-10 03:00:33 am

Vae Victus!

Quote from TheVoid:

And on that note, I got a (Though it's not a good run yet) 1:27 for Blood. Now I only need to get the lucky boss spawns like in your run Wink

Hmm, some different tactics/route?

TheVoid

Edit history:

TheVoid: 2009-02-10 05:37:02 am

2009-02-10 04:36:46 am

Yeah, a bit better hive/ammo usage planning. And it got better, Blood in 1:22, but I'm not satisfied with the bosses yet.

I also noticed you can reload your gun when the whole team is staring at the 3 urns getting beamed up Smiley

And when I looked at Cole after reloading there was a 1 frame moment where the crosshair shows up green, meaning that I could switch to Cole, unless the input is completely removed. I'm curious what happens if you switch...

EDIT: If possible you would be teleported away earlier, that would be awesome. Or maybe not, the game probably threats you then still as the last character and the other one you previously controlled will be teleported instead.

EDIT: Hmm, I've just been trying but not a single action seems to work Undecided

EDIT: Just got a 1:21 for Blood, I also used a Push to reload Black's grenades and it does seem faster.

TheVoid

2009-02-10 04:55:49 pm

I've got a surprise for you (Watch the video first before reading the text below) Smiley

Still With You in 1:26.

At first I ran this level in the same way you did and managed to get 1:33 (Delgado was closer to the enemies at the end and perhaps the end fight was a tad faster). Then I found something funny in the beginning of this level and surprisingly it saved 7 seconds.
I noticed that when you hold the Push key and then switch to Black, she'll perform the Push once before going into the dialog mode. So then I needed to get her closer to the debris. If one of your teammates moves away there (Either Rawlings or Church), Black will take the position there from the one that left. So one way of making someone move away is by shooting them, and in the beginning of the level Rawlings will walk in front of you. So then I found out that you need to hit him at least 3 times for him to move away. And he'll only move away when he stopped at his position and gets shot for the third time (Or more). After that push Black a little and she'll take his position, then move to her and hold the Push key and switch to her, turn in the right direction and the Push destroys the debris.
The objective text of the debris will last for basically the whole level, hehe Wink

Oh and yes I also used straferunning. Does seem a tad faster, though I still need to really check it...

I've got a surprise for you (Watch the video first before reading the text below) :)

[url=http://www.ssdq.org/VIDEOS/07_StillWithYou_126.mp4]Still With You in 1:26.[/url]

At first I ran this level in the same way you did and managed to get 1:33 (Delgado was closer to the enemies at the end and perhaps the end fight was a tad faster). Then I found something funny in the beginning of this level and surprisingly it saved 7 seconds.
I noticed that when you hold the Push key and then switch to Black, she'll perform the Push once before going into the dialog mode. So then I needed to get her closer to the debris. If one of your teammates moves away there (Either Rawlings or Church), Black will take the position there from the one that left. So one way of making someone move away is by shooting them, and in the beginning of the level Rawlings will walk in front of you. So then I found out that you need to hit him at least 3 times for him to move away. And he'll only move away when he stopped at his position and gets shot for the third time (Or more). After that push Black a little and she'll take his position, then move to her and hold the Push key and switch to her, turn in the right direction and the Push destroys the debris.
The objective text of the debris will last for basically the whole level, hehe ;)

Oh and yes I also used straferunning. Does seem a tad faster, though I still need to really check it...

Ugm

2009-02-11 02:08:08 am

Vae Victus!

Nice one!
...but how the hell did your survive grenade-in-the-face killing first cultist?

TheVoid

2009-02-11 02:37:58 am

Quote from Ugm:

...but how the hell did your survive grenade-in-the-face killing first cultist?

Always works with the first enemy. Sometimes you get hit a little bit, but you'll always survive.

TheVoid

Edit history:

TheVoid: 2009-02-19 03:59:50 am

2009-02-12 02:57:13 pm

Got a new time: Pyxis Prima in 2:08.

Ugm, did you get any new times? Timetable update? Smiley

EDIT:

The Storm in 1:42.

Damn, this attempt was 3 frames away from a 1:41... But I'm going to ask Mike if those beginning (And end) cutscenes in a level are counted in the time. I actually don't think so, but I keep doubting about it so I want a definite answer Wink

EDIT: Those beginning and end cutscenes (In general parts at the beginning and end of a level where you have no character control) aren't counted in the time so I need to retime my levels.

EDIT: I've retimed them, 3 had different times (I've deleted the video of Flesh for now, I didn't have the source video anymore and the run wasn't good yet anyway).

The Storm in 1:41 (It appeared that I skipped the 8 cutscenes in the beginning in exactly 1 second Smiley

So now I'm again 3 frames away from a 1:40...).
Still With You in 1:26 (Same time).
Skin in 0:39 (Same time).
Blood in 1:17 (4 seconds lower because control ends when you get beamed away).
Pyxis Prima in 2:05 (3 seconds lower mainly because of the cutscene stuff at the end).

Got a new time: [url=http://www.ssdq.org/VIDEOS/33_PyxisPrima_208.mp4]Pyxis Prima in 2:08[/url].

Ugm, did you get any new times? Timetable update? :)

EDIT:

[url=http://www.ssdq.org/VIDEOS/01_TheStorm_142.mp4]The Storm in 1:42[/url].

Damn, this attempt was 3 frames away from a 1:41... But I'm going to ask Mike if those beginning (And end) cutscenes in a level are counted in the time. I actually don't think so, but I keep doubting about it so I want a definite answer ;)

EDIT: Those beginning and end cutscenes (In general parts at the beginning and end of a level where you have no character control) aren't counted in the time so I need to retime my levels.

EDIT: I've retimed them, 3 had different times (I've deleted the video of Flesh for now, I didn't have the source video anymore and the run wasn't good yet anyway).

[url=http://www.ssdq.org/VIDEOS/01_TheStorm_141.mp4]The Storm in 1:41[/url] (It appeared that I skipped the 8 cutscenes in the beginning in exactly 1 second :) So now I'm again 3 frames away from a 1:40...).
[url=http://www.ssdq.org/VIDEOS/07_StillWithYou_126.mp4]Still With You in 1:26[/url] (Same time).
[url=http://www.ssdq.org/VIDEOS/29_Skin_039.mp4]Skin in 0:39[/url] (Same time).
[url=http://www.ssdq.org/VIDEOS/31_Blood_117.mp4]Blood in 1:17[/url] (4 seconds lower because control ends when you get beamed away).
[url=http://www.ssdq.org/VIDEOS/33_PyxisPrima_205.mp4]Pyxis Prima in 2:05[/url] (3 seconds lower mainly because of the cutscene stuff at the end).

Ugm

2009-02-18 07:11:15 am

Vae Victus!

I'm sorry, hard times at work stopped me in doing any attempts. Any succesful ones, to be precise.

Anyway, I've done a big update to the table. Now it has runner's name. Also almost all the levels have link to the vid (preview).

Introducing Xiaopang's times (although he refuses to put SDA logo in his vids) we've managed to get closer to 1h35 by almost 4 minutes. I think 1h30 is an ultimate goal. But we'll see. So far TheVoid is doing really great job here Smiley

Ah, retiming issue. Levels such as The Tomb or Gardens of Hell will be even faster now! I'll try to retime what I can today.

As for Demon trick mentioned in the table - it's firing with Delgado's demon for a minute or so! Very nice, check out his Gardens of Hell for example. Godseal is done completely using it.

TheVoid

Edit history:

TheVoid: 2009-02-18 03:42:52 pm

2009-02-18 03:25:29 pm

Quote from Ugm:

(although he refuses to put SDA logo in his vids)

Awww

That means that either you Ugm or me must improve or at least match his times in order for the runs to go up on SDA. Heh, Southpark episodes in some of his videos...

Quote:

As for Demon trick mentioned in the table - it's firing with Delgado's demon for a minute or so! Very nice, check out his Gardens of Hell for example. Godseal is done completely using it.

That's a very nice and handy trick Smiley

Lately I've been busy with Spiritual Guide and so far my best attempt is 14 seconds faster than your run Ugm, but I'm not happy with it yet. Something like 2 seconds can still be chopped off.
But with this level I've experienced that the accuracy of bullets are bad in this game and that Black's grenades very easily go through enemies... Quite annoying Wink

By the way, I love how you've put Clive Barker as the runner of Sacrifice Grin

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I've found another little trick which I'm using in Spiritual Guide. If you touch the end level trigger and the game fades in to end the level, then use Jones' Astral Projection just when you touch the end level trigger, then the level will be instantly finished instead of the fade in. Saves like 1.5 second. As far as I've checked this only works with his Jones' Astral Projection power.
Actually, you probably won't save time since you'll lose control there... But in other levels it could maybe save a bit of time.

[quote="Ugm"](although he refuses to put SDA logo in his vids)[/quote]
Awww :( That means that either you Ugm or me must improve or at least match his times in order for the runs to go up on SDA. Heh, Southpark episodes in some of his videos...

[quote]As for Demon trick mentioned in the table - it's firing with Delgado's demon for a minute or so! Very nice, check out his Gardens of Hell for example. Godseal is done completely using it.[/quote]
That's a very nice and handy trick :)

Lately I've been busy with Spiritual Guide and so far my best attempt is 14 seconds faster than your run Ugm, but I'm not happy with it yet. Something like 2 seconds can still be chopped off.
But with this level I've experienced that the accuracy of bullets are bad in this game and that Black's grenades very easily go through enemies... Quite annoying ;)

By the way, I love how you've put Clive Barker as the runner of Sacrifice ;D

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I've found another little trick which I'm using in Spiritual Guide. If you touch the end level trigger and the game fades in to end the level, then use Jones' Astral Projection just when you touch the end level trigger, then the level will be instantly finished instead of the fade in. Saves like 1.5 second. As far as I've checked this only works with his Jones' Astral Projection power.
Actually, you probably won't save time since you'll lose control there... But in other levels it could maybe save a bit of time.

Ugm

2009-02-18 04:06:58 pm

Vae Victus!

Quote from TheVoid:

Quote from Ugm:

(although he refuses to put SDA logo in his vids)

Awww

That means that either you Ugm or me must improve or at least match his times in order for the runs to go up on SDA. Heh, Southpark episodes in some of his videos...

Hmm... does it always work this way? When there's some level with better time done by someone else, no run of ours will be accepted? Lets say that we don't know him and know nothing about his play. He can cheat or use illegal techniques - theoretically it's SDA who verifies this and tells if the runs are at least comparable. How can it tell that they are legit if they are not even submitted? Hmm, same goes with Guts of Anoki's. Honestly, this level looked strange but it's no longer available. If we won't beat him then what? He could make up this time and it's unreachable.
I'm not saying that there's anything bad with Xiaopang's runs. It's just how SDA will know that better times are available without the being submitted? Or when he won't release any of his runs? I'm curious.

Quote from TheVoid:

Lately I've been busy with Spiritual Guide and so far my best attempt is 14 seconds faster than your run Ugm, but I'm not happy with it yet. Something like 2 seconds can still be chopped off.
But with this level I've experienced that the accuracy of bullets are bad in this game and that Black's grenades very easily go through enemies... Quite annoying Wink

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I've found another little trick which I'm using in Spiritual Guide. If you touch the end level trigger and the game fades in to end the level, then use Jones' Astral Projection just when you touch the end level trigger, then the level will be instantly finished instead of the fade in. Saves like 1.5 second. As far as I've checked this only works with his Jones' Astral Projection power.
Actually, you probably won't save time since you'll lose control there... But in other levels it could maybe save a bit of time.

Man, you're awesome! I have to see this vid. And don't tell me about missing 100% shots, besides from cultists suddenly turning back (like in my vid with the last one with Black), you can for example shoot between their legs when aiming at the ground, it's so frustrating! Especially on this level, when everything has to be perfect.
14 secs... hmm. But wait, do you count it without the first "cutscene"?

[quote="TheVoid"]
[quote="Ugm"](although he refuses to put SDA logo in his vids)[/quote]
Awww :( That means that either you Ugm or me must improve or at least match his times in order for the runs to go up on SDA. Heh, Southpark episodes in some of his videos...
[/quote]

Hmm... does it always work this way? When there's some level with better time done by someone else, no run of ours will be accepted? Lets say that we don't know him and know nothing about his play. He can cheat or use illegal techniques - theoretically it's SDA who verifies this and tells if the runs are at least comparable. How can it tell that they are legit if they are not even submitted? Hmm, same goes with Guts of Anoki's. Honestly, this level looked strange but it's no longer available. If we won't beat him then what? He could make up this time and it's unreachable.
I'm not saying that there's anything bad with Xiaopang's runs. It's just how SDA will know that better times are available without the being submitted? Or when he won't release any of his runs? I'm curious.

[quote="TheVoid"]
Lately I've been busy with Spiritual Guide and so far my best attempt is 14 seconds faster than your run Ugm, but I'm not happy with it yet. Something like 2 seconds can still be chopped off.
But with this level I've experienced that the accuracy of bullets are bad in this game and that Black's grenades very easily go through enemies... Quite annoying ;)

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I've found another little trick which I'm using in Spiritual Guide. If you touch the end level trigger and the game fades in to end the level, then use Jones' Astral Projection just when you touch the end level trigger, then the level will be instantly finished instead of the fade in. Saves like 1.5 second. As far as I've checked this only works with his Jones' Astral Projection power.
Actually, you probably won't save time since you'll lose control there... But in other levels it could maybe save a bit of time.
[/quote]

Man, you're awesome! I have to see this vid. And don't tell me about missing 100% shots, besides from cultists suddenly turning back (like in my vid with the last one with Black), you can for example shoot between their legs when aiming at the ground, it's so frustrating! Especially on this level, when everything has to be perfect.
14 secs... hmm. But wait, do you count it without the first "cutscene"?

TheVoid

Edit history:

TheVoid: 2009-02-18 05:00:00 pm

2009-02-18 04:29:44 pm

Quote from Ugm:

Hmm... does it always work this way? When there's some level with better time done by someone else, no run of ours will be accepted? Lets say that we don't know him and know nothing about his play. He can cheat or use illegal techniques - theoretically it's SDA who verifies this and tells if the runs are at least comparable. How can it tell that they are legit if they are not even submitted? Hmm, same goes with Guts of Anoki's. Honestly, this level looked strange but it's no longer available. If we won't beat him then what? He could make up this time and it's unreachable.
I'm not saying that there's anything bad with Xiaopang's runs. It's just how SDA will know that better times are available without the being submitted? Or when he won't release any of his runs? I'm curious.

Well, in order for this game to go up on SDA, an entire table must be submitted. So if Xiaopang doesn't want to submit his level runs (Since he doesn't want to add the StatID which I believe is necessary although I'm not entirely sure, maybe that's just a choice for the runner. But regarding Xiaopang's posts in the thread he doesn't agree with SDA's encoding methods so most likely he's not going to submit them), then that means that someone else, who wants to submit to SDA, needs to make a run of that level instead. If it wouldn't be possible to match or improve his time, then the next best time should be submitted even though it would be slower. So yeah that would be too bad if a faster run won't be submitted to SDA because the runner doesn't want to, but nothing to do about it really, except to keep trying to improve or match it Smiley

Quote:

And don't tell me about missing 100% shots

In my current best attempt I shot 3 times with the normal bullets against a Cultist to behead him... It didn't really slow me down though. All other shots were 1-hit-kills.
Sorry I'm not going to upload it just yet, I want a better run first Wink

Quote:

you can for example shoot between their legs when aiming at the ground, it's so frustrating! Especially on this level, when everything has to be perfect.

Yeah. Also often you can see the grenade go through the ground and it explodes behind the Cultist while you were aiming and shooting at the ground where the Cultist is standing... Grin

This only happens when you're moving I think.

Quote:

14 secs... hmm. But wait, do you count it without the first "cutscene"?

No, I included the cutscene in the timing as comparison to your run. If I don't include the cutscene then the time is 1:15.

EDIT: My Pyxis Prima run is final by the way, I'm pretty sure it can't be improved anymore (If you think that the first Push with Black was a mistake, it's not. The Firstborn can't immediately get hit, only when he has stopped with his "taking over character" animation (When his left arm is lowered), so I Pushed at the right time). All other characters were switched to at a pretty much optimal moment (Especially Church! That switch was EXACTLY at the first frame it was possible to keep her under control :)). The exact time of the run is 2:05.283. So to improve the run, 18 frames should be chopped off. Like 7 frames "could" be saved when switching to Rawlings, and like 5 frames "could" be saved when switching to Delgado, and then perhaps like 2 or 3 frames with Black's Push, that sums up to about 15 frames. Not enough Smiley

And I just noticed that you made a little typo in the link for Pyxis Prima. It says "2:05.mp4", should be "205.mp4".
And the Flesh video isn't available anymore, you can remove that link.

[quote="Ugm"]Hmm... does it always work this way? When there's some level with better time done by someone else, no run of ours will be accepted? Lets say that we don't know him and know nothing about his play. He can cheat or use illegal techniques - theoretically it's SDA who verifies this and tells if the runs are at least comparable. How can it tell that they are legit if they are not even submitted? Hmm, same goes with Guts of Anoki's. Honestly, this level looked strange but it's no longer available. If we won't beat him then what? He could make up this time and it's unreachable.
I'm not saying that there's anything bad with Xiaopang's runs. It's just how SDA will know that better times are available without the being submitted? Or when he won't release any of his runs? I'm curious.[/quote]
Well, in order for this game to go up on SDA, an entire table must be submitted. So if Xiaopang doesn't want to submit his level runs (Since he doesn't want to add the StatID which I believe is necessary although I'm not entirely sure, maybe that's just a choice for the runner. But regarding Xiaopang's posts in the thread he doesn't agree with SDA's encoding methods so most likely he's not going to submit them), then that means that someone else, who wants to submit to SDA, needs to make a run of that level instead. If it wouldn't be possible to match or improve his time, then the next best time should be submitted even though it would be slower. So yeah that would be too bad if a faster run won't be submitted to SDA because the runner doesn't want to, but nothing to do about it really, except to keep trying to improve or match it :)

[quote]And don't tell me about missing 100% shots[/quote]
In my current best attempt I shot 3 times with the normal bullets against a Cultist to behead him... It didn't really slow me down though. All other shots were 1-hit-kills.
Sorry I'm not going to upload it just yet, I want a better run first ;)

[quote]you can for example shoot between their legs when aiming at the ground, it's so frustrating! Especially on this level, when everything has to be perfect.[/quote]
Yeah. Also often you can see the grenade go through the ground and it explodes behind the Cultist while you were aiming and shooting at the ground where the Cultist is standing... ;D This only happens when you're moving I think.

[quote]14 secs... hmm. But wait, do you count it without the first "cutscene"?[/quote]
No, I included the cutscene in the timing as comparison to your run. If I don't include the cutscene then the time is 1:15.

EDIT: My Pyxis Prima run is final by the way, I'm pretty sure it can't be improved anymore (If you think that the first Push with Black was a mistake, it's not. The Firstborn can't immediately get hit, only when he has stopped with his "taking over character" animation (When his left arm is lowered), so I Pushed at the right time). All other characters were switched to at a pretty much optimal moment (Especially Church! That switch was EXACTLY at the first frame it was possible to keep her under control :)). The exact time of the run is 2:05.283. So to improve the run, 18 frames should be chopped off. Like 7 frames "could" be saved when switching to Rawlings, and like 5 frames "could" be saved when switching to Delgado, and then perhaps like 2 or 3 frames with Black's Push, that sums up to about 15 frames. Not enough :)

And I just noticed that you made a little typo in the link for Pyxis Prima. It says "2:05.mp4", should be "205.mp4".
And the Flesh video isn't available anymore, you can remove that link.

Ugm

2009-02-19 03:56:13 am

Vae Victus!

Quote from TheVoid:

Well, in order for this game to go up on SDA, an entire table must be submitted. So if Xiaopang doesn't want to submit his level runs (Since he doesn't want to add the StatID which I believe is necessary although I'm not entirely sure, maybe that's just a choice for the runner. But regarding Xiaopang's posts in the thread he doesn't agree with SDA's encoding methods so most likely he's not going to submit them), then that means that someone else, who wants to submit to SDA, needs to make a run of that level instead. If it wouldn't be possible to match or improve his time, then the next best time should be submitted even though it would be slower. So yeah that would be too bad if a faster run won't be submitted to SDA because the runner doesn't want to, but nothing to do about it really, except to keep trying to improve or match it Smiley

If it's still ok to post worse times but ours then fine. Xiaopang mentioned HL2 run which has no StatID but I can't check it right now.

Quote from TheVoid:

In my current best attempt I shot 3 times with the normal bullets against a Cultist to behead him... It didn't really slow me down though. All other shots were 1-hit-kills.

If there were 3 shots, then it couldn't be headshot Wink

It must have been neck or shoulder which happened quite frequently to me. It's very close to the head even if the head was your target right in the middle of a screen Smiley

Quote from TheVoid:

Yeah. Also often you can see the grenade go through the ground and it explodes behind the Cultist while you were aiming and shooting at the ground where the Cultist is standing... Grin

This only happens when you're moving I think.

Black's grenades are so powerful yet they have very very limited radius. You can't kill grouped cultists by shooting grenade in the middle of them yet you blow up ubersoldiers in WWII levels with one shot. Thus shooting between legs result in explosion behind the target doing it no harm. Great!

Quote from TheVoid:

Quote:

14 secs... hmm. But wait, do you count it without the first "cutscene"?

No, I included the cutscene in the timing as comparison to your run. If I don't include the cutscene then the time is 1:15.

I think I'll retire now Shocked

All right, it wasn't perfect but still it was almost running all the time. And 14 secs is just too much!

Quote from TheVoid:

And I just noticed that you made a little typo in the link for Pyxis Prima. It says "2:05.mp4", should be "205.mp4".

Is it really *me* who made that typo? Grin

I was just about to report you a bad link Wink

[quote="TheVoid"]
Well, in order for this game to go up on SDA, an entire table must be submitted. So if Xiaopang doesn't want to submit his level runs (Since he doesn't want to add the StatID which I believe is necessary although I'm not entirely sure, maybe that's just a choice for the runner. But regarding Xiaopang's posts in the thread he doesn't agree with SDA's encoding methods so most likely he's not going to submit them), then that means that someone else, who wants to submit to SDA, needs to make a run of that level instead. If it wouldn't be possible to match or improve his time, then the next best time should be submitted even though it would be slower. So yeah that would be too bad if a faster run won't be submitted to SDA because the runner doesn't want to, but nothing to do about it really, except to keep trying to improve or match it :)
[/quote]

If it's still ok to post worse times but ours then fine. Xiaopang mentioned HL2 run which has no StatID but I can't check it right now.

[quote="TheVoid"]
In my current best attempt I shot 3 times with the normal bullets against a Cultist to behead him... It didn't really slow me down though. All other shots were 1-hit-kills.
[/quote]

If there were 3 shots, then it couldn't be headshot ;) It must have been neck or shoulder which happened quite frequently to me. It's very close to the head even if the head was your target right in the middle of a screen :)

[quote="TheVoid"]
Yeah. Also often you can see the grenade go through the ground and it explodes behind the Cultist while you were aiming and shooting at the ground where the Cultist is standing... ;D This only happens when you're moving I think.
[/quote]

Black's grenades are so powerful yet they have very very limited radius. You can't kill grouped cultists by shooting grenade in the middle of them yet you blow up ubersoldiers in WWII levels with one shot. Thus shooting between legs result in explosion behind the target doing it no harm. Great!

[quote="TheVoid"]
[quote]14 secs... hmm. But wait, do you count it without the first "cutscene"?[/quote]
No, I included the cutscene in the timing as comparison to your run. If I don't include the cutscene then the time is 1:15.
[/quote]

I think I'll retire now  :o All right, it wasn't perfect but still it was almost running all the time. And 14 secs is just too much!

[quote="TheVoid"]
And I just noticed that you made a little typo in the link for Pyxis Prima. It says "2:05.mp4", should be "205.mp4".
[/quote]

Is it really *me* who made that typo?  ;D
I was just about to report you a bad link ;)

TheVoid

Edit history:

TheVoid: 2009-02-19 05:45:58 pm

2009-02-19 04:12:50 am

Quote from Ugm:

If it's still ok to post worse times but ours then fine.

It's still ok, but preferably not submit any worse times of course Wink

Quote:

Xiaopang mentioned HL2 run which has no StatID but I can't check it right now.

That's possible, a lot of older runs don't have the StatID included. I shall ask Mike if it's really required or not.

Quote:

If there were 3 shots, then it couldn't be headshot Wink

It must have been neck or shoulder which happened quite frequently to me. It's very close to the head even if the head was your target right in the middle of a screen Smiley

Well, it was actually just bad aiming... The first 2 shots missed him (The Cultist was dodging quite a bit), and the third shot was a headshot Wink

Quote:

I think I'll retire now Shocked

All right, it wasn't perfect but still it was almost running all the time. And 14 secs is just too much!

Heh, don't quit man, keep running the levels Grin

Quote:

Is it really *me* who made that typo? Grin

I was just about to report you a bad link Wink

Holy crap! How did I miss that? Grin

I've fixed my own post now...

EDIT: Mike told me that the StatID is not required, it's the runner's choice to add it.

EDIT: I was just attempting Blood (Unfortunately didn't improve it) but I noticed something with the Restart option from the menu. When you start Blood for the first time from the Historic Missions screen, then Jones has his rifle on Automatic. If you then hold Reload and select 1-shot for example, then when you press ESC and select Restart, then his rifle will be on 1-shot instead of Automatic. This is something to keep an eye on when verifying levels...

EDIT: And now I managed to improve Blood with 1 second, Blood in 1:16 Smiley

A 1:15 should be possible with less switch time to Black and then have the bosses near each other like I had in my previous 1:17 run.

[quote="Ugm"]If it's still ok to post worse times but ours then fine.[/quote]
It's still ok, but preferably not submit any worse times of course ;)

[quote]Xiaopang mentioned HL2 run which has no StatID but I can't check it right now.[/quote]
That's possible, a lot of older runs don't have the StatID included. I shall ask Mike if it's really required or not.

[quote]If there were 3 shots, then it couldn't be headshot ;) It must have been neck or shoulder which happened quite frequently to me. It's very close to the head even if the head was your target right in the middle of a screen :)[/quote]
Well, it was actually just bad aiming... The first 2 shots missed him (The Cultist was dodging quite a bit), and the third shot was a headshot ;)

[quote]I think I'll retire now  :o All right, it wasn't perfect but still it was almost running all the time. And 14 secs is just too much![/quote]
Heh, don't quit man, keep running the levels ;D

[quote]Is it really *me* who made that typo?  ;D
I was just about to report you a bad link ;)[/quote]
Holy crap! How did I miss that? ;D I've fixed my own post now...

EDIT: Mike told me that the StatID is not required, it's the runner's choice to add it.

EDIT: I was just attempting Blood (Unfortunately didn't improve it) but I noticed something with the Restart option from the menu. When you start Blood for the first time from the Historic Missions screen, then Jones has his rifle on Automatic. If you then hold Reload and select 1-shot for example, then when you press ESC and select Restart, then his rifle will be on 1-shot instead of Automatic. This is something to keep an eye on when verifying levels...

EDIT: And now I managed to improve Blood with 1 second, [url=http://www.ssdq.org/VIDEOS/31_Blood_116.mp4]Blood in 1:16[/url] :)
A 1:15 should be possible with less switch time to Black and then have the bosses near each other like I had in my previous 1:17 run.