Civilization V

Zergreenone

Edit history:

Zergreenone: 2016-02-16 03:54:36 am

Zergreenone: 2016-02-16 03:54:20 am

Zergreenone: 2016-02-16 03:54:05 am

Zergreenone: 2016-02-16 03:53:20 am

Zergreenone: 2016-02-12 02:25:15 am

2016-02-12 02:24:58 am

I was thinking of running this game.

I also found this glitch (relatively minor, but interesting and not useless):

So basically, this allows you to declare war on a civilization, get them to pay for peace, and then declare war on them again before the 10 turns are up. It has much more interesting visual effects. Ctrl-space ends turn (enter will also do so but closes dialog).

Note that doing this glitch will screw up the diplomacy screen until you restart civ 5 if you let the opponent offer you a peace treaty before you offer the opponent a peace treaty. This is why the ottomans' screen was screwed up before doing the glitch.

The natural camera is different for different leaders, and the camera that is gained from this glitch stays the same if you change between leaders, so it may be possible to put the camera in even weirder angles than the glitch allows by itself.

I imagine that similar glitches may be possible with other dialog screens, such as the one you get when you capture a worker that used to belong to a player or city-state. Possible worker duplication? Who knows.

Anyway, I have been playing quite a bit of civilization in the last couple of days, so I might do a bit of speed-running and glitch-hunting.

___

(Segmented) Runs:

Thread title:

I was thinking of running this game.

I also found this glitch (relatively minor, but interesting and not useless):

[hidden="Interesting Glitch"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcCPX0z8-tA[/hidden]

So basically, this allows you to declare war on a civilization, get them to pay for peace, and then declare war on them again before the 10 turns are up. It has much more interesting visual effects. Ctrl-space ends turn (enter will also do so but closes dialog).

Note that doing this glitch will screw up the diplomacy screen until you restart civ 5 if you let the opponent offer you a peace treaty before you offer the opponent a peace treaty. This is why the ottomans' screen was screwed up before doing the glitch.

The natural camera is different for different leaders, and the camera that is gained from this glitch stays the same if you change between leaders, so it may be possible to put the camera in even weirder angles than the glitch allows by itself.

I imagine that similar glitches may be possible with other dialog screens, such as the one you get when you capture a worker that used to belong to a player or city-state. Possible worker duplication? Who knows.

Anyway, I have been playing quite a bit of civilization in the last couple of days, so I might do a bit of speed-running and glitch-hunting.

___

(Segmented) Runs:

[hidden="1v1 Diety Run"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI8v3Kt8By8[/hidden]
[hidden="1v1 Run"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSjfjYMYTYw[/hidden]

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2016-02-12 10:54:32 am

2016-02-12 10:53:56 am

PLEASE start a wiki before you do anything else, otherwise it's all gonna be in overly verbose mode in this thread instead. Here, I've even started one for you: https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Civilization_V

Some extra instructions: https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/SDA_Strategy_Wiki#Adding_a_game

Basically just go to the wiki page (it'll say it doesn't exist) and hit "edit this page". Then add the correct tags as given by the intro above and copy-paste some existing wiki, e.g. this one: https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Thief_2:_The_Metal_Age (again hit edit to see the raw text)

Keep the parts you think you'll need changing names where necessary and remove what you don't. To start sub-pages works the same. Ask me if you're left with questions, but it's really simple. Personally I like to explain things briefly in the thread and more thoroughly in the wiki so people interested can find everything there. Linking videos etc. is not a bad idea either. This way the thread will be reserved mostly for discussion and such ephemeral things.

Good luck glitch-hunting!

PLEASE start a wiki before you do anything else, otherwise it's all gonna be in overly verbose mode in this thread instead. Here, I've even started one for you: https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Civilization_V

Some extra instructions: https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/SDA_Strategy_Wiki#Adding_a_game

Basically just go to the wiki page (it'll say it doesn't exist) and hit "edit this page". Then add the correct tags as given by the intro above and copy-paste some existing wiki, e.g. this one: https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Thief_2:_The_Metal_Age (again hit edit to see the raw text)

Keep the parts you think you'll need changing names where necessary and remove what you don't. To start sub-pages works the same. Ask me if you're left with questions, but it's really simple. Personally I like to explain things briefly in the thread and more thoroughly in the wiki so people interested can find everything there. Linking videos etc. is not a bad idea either. This way the thread will be reserved mostly for discussion and such ephemeral things.

Good luck glitch-hunting!

IsraeliRD

2016-02-12 03:23:40 pm

Dragon Power Supreme

Also, speedrun.com has a few runs on different settings.

Zergreenone

Edit history:

Zergreenone: 2016-02-13 03:36:50 am

Zergreenone: 2016-02-13 03:36:19 am

2016-02-13 03:34:46 am

The any% run...... Anyway, lets ignore that, shall we?

I probably won't go out and buy all the dlc (of which there is an enormous amount for this game). Although I haven't bought any of it, I doubt they could balance that much extra content. Tbh, I doubt that they even tried to balance it. I think dlc-enabled should really be a separate category. They appear to use dlc on speedrun.com.

I also think there need to be a lot more different categories on speedrun.com for the domination victory (I personally might not even have bothered with all the other victories, too boring). Not just domination on a tinier than tiny dlc skirmish map using imba dlc content. More different sizes of maps and different difficulties.

Also different types of maps: tiny islands vs pangaea mostly.

Although, in reality, speedrun.com tends to be an RTA site, while sda tends to be a segmented/IL site (in general). I guess that larger maps with more civs would be more random and less reliable in RTA.

I also dunno whether one person can create enough content to flood the forum, and if I do then I guess I will edit the wiki at that point in time. I don't even have any information to give anyone at this point, I have only just started. Not even that, yet (whoops).

Also, I will probably make segmented runs (not that that is relevant to anything). Normally best for games with large amounts of rng. And most fun to manipulate and stuff.

The any% run...... Anyway, lets ignore that, shall we?

I probably won't go out and buy all the dlc (of which there is an enormous amount for this game). Although I haven't bought any of it, I doubt they could balance that much extra content. Tbh, I doubt that they even tried to balance it. I think dlc-enabled should really be a separate category. They appear to use dlc on speedrun.com.

I also think there need to be a lot more different categories on speedrun.com for the domination victory (I personally might not even have bothered with all the other victories, too boring). Not just domination on a tinier than tiny dlc skirmish map using imba dlc content. More different sizes of maps and different difficulties.

Also different types of maps: tiny islands vs pangaea mostly.

Although, in reality, speedrun.com tends to be an RTA site, while sda tends to be a segmented/IL site (in general). I guess that larger maps with more civs would be more random and less reliable in RTA.

I also dunno whether one person can create enough content to flood the forum, and if I do then I guess I will edit the wiki at that point in time. I don't even have any information to give anyone at this point, I have only just started. Not even that, yet (whoops).

Also, I will probably make segmented runs (not that that is relevant to anything). Normally best for games with large amounts of rng. And most fun to manipulate and stuff.

LotBlind

2016-02-13 11:37:13 am

I meant more like: use the wiki as a notepad now and everything will always be in neat order forever without having to take it from here later. Your legacy will always be there whether or not you actually get a run together as well.

4X games on this site (see Master of Magic and Master of Orion 2) have only been run under settings like this:
- smallest map size (randomly generated map)
- least number of opponents
- easiest difficulty settings

As for all the rest of the settings, I'd like to think it's best to use whatever makes the run the fastest. Other categories would be a few different combinations of map size (smallest or largest) which I suggest to tie with number of opponents so the largest map is also fully populated, thus eliminating a variable, and easiest/most difficult difficulty. In the case of smallest map scenarios, I don't imagine the difficulty setting to make a huge difference if the winning strategy is some form of cheese/manipulation anyway, so you could even drop that category out too. This leaves you with 3 segmented categories + any% w/ or w/o resets run under the same rules.

I'm not sure the other victories (I presume you have diplomacy and tech ascendancy) are interesting enough to warrant runs, but if they are and someone wants to do them, those should probably use all fastest settings to make it simpler. Or diplomacy should have lots of other civilizations presumably to make it less trivial? Anyway it's tough defining what you should be allowed to do in games like this (see the complicated Thief 2 category notes) but some amount of foresight has to be had IMHO.

I meant more like: use the wiki as a notepad now and everything will always be in neat order forever without having to take it from here later. Your legacy will always be there whether or not you actually get a run together as well.

4X games on this site (see Master of Magic and Master of Orion 2) have only been run under settings like this:
- smallest map size (randomly generated map)
- least number of opponents
- easiest difficulty settings

As for all the rest of the settings, I'd like to think it's best to use whatever makes the run the fastest. Other categories would be a few different combinations of map size (smallest or largest) which I suggest to tie with number of opponents so the largest map is also fully populated, thus eliminating a variable, and easiest/most difficult difficulty. In the case of smallest map scenarios, I don't imagine the difficulty setting to make a huge difference if the winning strategy is some form of cheese/manipulation anyway, so you could even drop that category out too. This leaves you with 3 segmented categories + any% w/ or w/o resets run under the same rules.

I'm not sure the other victories (I presume you have diplomacy and tech ascendancy) are interesting enough to warrant runs, but if they are and someone wants to do them, those should probably use all fastest settings to make it simpler. Or diplomacy should have lots of other civilizations presumably to make it less trivial? Anyway it's tough defining what you should be allowed to do in games like this (see the complicated Thief 2 category notes) but some amount of foresight has to be had IMHO.

Zergreenone

Edit history:

Zergreenone: 2016-02-13 07:03:49 pm

Zergreenone: 2016-02-13 07:03:14 pm

Zergreenone: 2016-02-13 03:43:49 pm

Zergreenone: 2016-02-13 03:42:10 pm

Zergreenone: 2016-02-13 02:49:09 pm

Zergreenone: 2016-02-13 02:39:42 pm

Zergreenone: 2016-02-13 02:23:27 pm

Zergreenone: 2016-02-13 02:19:51 pm

Zergreenone: 2016-02-13 02:17:37 pm

Zergreenone: 2016-02-13 02:12:18 pm

Zergreenone: 2016-02-13 01:53:23 pm

Zergreenone: 2016-02-13 01:52:41 pm

2016-02-13 01:51:46 pm

Anyway, I was originally going to sort of disallow advanced game options, mostly because of the totally legit any% run. But then I saw a box called "New Random Seed", and I was like, hell yeah! Anyway, if I did that it would be significantly slower, because I wouldn't be able to turn off barbarians and city-states to make the game's turns take less time. I guess there isn't really any reason to disallow advanced game options other than max turns.

Whatever. It also gave me the idea to do a 22 civilization tiny map run. That would really be fun.

I guess the other victories have a place.

_____________

For some reason, if you turn on New Random Seed, you lose the game if you don't build a city within 10 turns. Interesting.

Or never mind, maybe it is something else. I think Disable start bias. Makes more sense

Or 0 city states, that's what it is. Although even having 1 city-state slows the game down significantly. So I guess I have to win within 10 turns (or actually bother building a city and assigning it production)

I sort of even like set seed better, because then I know exactly what will be happening when I do something. I mean, that was the point of -seed. Oh well.

___

My hall of fame looks absolutely ridiculous now -.-
___

I mean, surely it should be obvious that a battering ram replacing a goddam spearman that is specifically the first unit you can get from ancient ruins is totally overpowered -.-

Even without ancient ruins, for any other civilization, you have to tech twice as far to get seige units as any other civilization, or build a whole load of archers. This guy just needs to build 1 spearman and spam warriors and, unless the nearest opponent also spammed warriors, there is nothing that he can do. Even if he did spam warriors, the spearman guy can just take a city-state with ease, getting the advantage back.

Anyway, I was originally going to sort of disallow advanced game options, mostly because of the totally legit any% run. But then I saw a box called "New Random Seed", and I was like, hell yeah! Anyway, if I did that it would be significantly slower, because I wouldn't be able to turn off barbarians and city-states to make the game's turns take less time. I guess there isn't really any reason to disallow advanced game options other than max turns.

Whatever. It also gave me the idea to do a 22 civilization tiny map run. That would really be fun.

I guess the other victories have a place.

_____________

For some reason, if you turn on New Random Seed, you lose the game if you don't build a city within 10 turns. Interesting.

Or never mind, maybe it is something else. I think Disable start bias. Makes more sense

Or 0 city states, that's what it is. Although even having 1 city-state slows the game down significantly. So I guess I have to win within 10 turns (or actually bother building a city and assigning it production)

I sort of even like set seed better, because then I know exactly what will be happening when I do something. I mean, that was the point of -seed. Oh well.

___

My hall of fame looks absolutely ridiculous now -.-
___

I mean, surely it should be obvious that a battering ram replacing a goddam spearman that is specifically the first unit you can get from ancient ruins is totally overpowered -.-

Even without ancient ruins, for any other civilization, you have to tech twice as far to get seige units as any other civilization, or build a whole load of archers. This guy just needs to build 1 spearman and spam warriors and, unless the nearest opponent also spammed warriors, there is nothing that he can do. Even if he did spam warriors, the spearman guy can just take a city-state with ease, getting the advantage back.

Zergreenone

Edit history:

Zergreenone: 2016-02-15 12:06:15 am

Zergreenone: 2016-02-15 12:05:59 am

Zergreenone: 2016-02-14 02:53:45 am

Zergreenone: 2016-02-14 02:53:44 am

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Zergreenone: 2016-02-13 03:47:16 pm

2016-02-13 03:45:15 pm

oops somehow I double posted. I think I hit quote instead of edit -.-

Got a 1:04 dual settler in two segments (just to seed the map). Without using the stupid battering ram dlc cheese. For the seed I think it was ok, but I think I could probably do better. There were 3 ancient ruins, but none of them seemed to want to upgrade my units. I didn't really want to randomize the seed because that causes randomness (obviously), which is something that I don't really like.

___

And brutal is reasonably different to settler, even when cheesing. In settler they start with only 1 warrior. In brutal they start with 3 warriors and a worker.

___

So now I will do a 22 civilization tiny map speedrun. Although there only appear to be 18 civilizations... But Civ seems to be telling me that I can do it...

Although I do not know which civ to play as.

Greece and Rome have strong units but weak powers.

Iroquois, Persia and possibly China have OK units and OK powers (Cho-Ko-Nus are my personal favorite unit).

Russia has a good power, if you start with a lot of nearby horses.

Probably not Songhai, Germany (although Landsknects are my second personal favorite unit), England, India, Arabia, Aztecs, France, Japan, Egypt, Siam, Ottomans, or America.

I think I will do it as Rome. I just need to make sure I get lots of Iron at the start.

___

I guess great plains on tiny size is really small.

___

55 second great plains settler dual map no dlc domination victory.

_______________________________

_______________________________

___

In reality, Egypt, India, or maybe Japan are probably the best civilizations. Or maybe Greece or Persia.

I think Persia (on settler difficulty at least).

oops somehow I double posted. I think I hit quote instead of edit -.-

Got a 1:04 dual settler in two segments (just to seed the map). Without using the stupid battering ram dlc cheese. For the seed I think it was ok, but I think I could probably do better. There were 3 ancient ruins, but none of them seemed to want to upgrade my units. I didn't really want to randomize the seed because that causes randomness (obviously), which is something that I don't really like.

[hidden="outdated video"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPY9tE74nLw[/hidden]

___

And brutal is reasonably different to settler, even when cheesing. In settler they start with only 1 warrior. In brutal they start with 3 warriors and a worker.

___

So now I will do a 22 civilization tiny map speedrun. Although there only appear to be 18 civilizations... But Civ seems to be telling me that I can do it...

Although I do not know which civ to play as.

Greece and Rome have strong units but weak powers.

Iroquois, Persia and possibly China have OK units and OK powers (Cho-Ko-Nus are my personal favorite unit).

Russia has a good power, if you start with a lot of nearby horses.

Probably not Songhai, Germany (although Landsknects are my second personal favorite unit), England, India, Arabia, Aztecs, France, Japan, Egypt, Siam, Ottomans, or America.

I think I will do it as Rome. I just need to make sure I get lots of Iron at the start.

___

I guess great plains on tiny size is really small.

___

55 second great plains settler dual map no dlc domination victory.

[b]_______________________________[/b]
[hidden="55 seconds"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSjfjYMYTYw[/hidden][b]_______________________________[/b]

___

In reality, Egypt, India, or maybe Japan are probably the best civilizations. Or maybe Greece or Persia.

I think Persia (on settler difficulty at least).

LotBlind

2016-02-14 01:46:37 pm

"22 civilization tiny map run" - you kinda do have to just run "normal" runs for SDA. That sounds like a mish-mash. I can't see the logic: it should be either simple as possible or complex as possible. On the other hand 22 civs on the largest map sounds like a 10-hour run... Maybe you should look into if other Civ/4X games have been run in other categories to see if it has a history.

I frankly don't know what the policy is on DLC... you of course can only have official DLC and no fan modding, but are those generally disregarded? Maybe someone will know. I think it doesn't make any sense to make people have to buy all the DLC just to speedrun the game, so that's a very strong argument against them. That's why I think your run up there looks legit in theory. Expect ofc you couldn't submit that without showing the individual segments.

Zergreenone

Edit history:

Zergreenone: 2016-02-16 03:48:48 am

Zergreenone: 2016-02-16 02:57:19 am

Zergreenone: 2016-02-16 02:51:32 am

Zergreenone: 2016-02-16 12:27:33 am

Zergreenone: 2016-02-15 11:53:03 pm

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Zergreenone: 2016-02-15 03:20:31 am

2016-02-14 02:12:35 pm

Maybe I should have put it in the casual speedrunning section or something. Although I am tired of absolutely owning settler AIs, and it's maybe a little too silly to play against deity AIs. So I might just work on a standard map size 8 civ deity domination run.

Although I am not sure whether to use the map size named "Standard", or the map size which is the default named "Small", which is one size down. There are an even number of sizes, so either one could be the middle one.

Also I think that making good/fun speedruns is more important than making submit-able speedruns.

___

I think on maps larger than tiny against deity civilizations it may be quicker to play on island maps because the AI is just that bad.

___

On deity difficulty, after you have killed all the opponents units, the enemy literally starts churning out one unit every turn. Occasionally randomly deciding to build the great wall in like 5 turns or something.

___

Or at least, it has the capability to do that, if it feels like it.

___

1v1 diety is actually significantly different from 1v1 settler, because you actually have to deal with units.

Maybe I should have put it in the casual speedrunning section or something. Although I am tired of absolutely owning settler AIs, and it's maybe a little too silly to play against deity AIs. So I might just work on a standard map size 8 civ deity domination run.

Although I am not sure whether to use the map size named "Standard", or the map size which is the default named "Small", which is one size down. There are an even number of sizes, so either one could be the middle one.

Also I think that making good/fun speedruns is more important than making submit-able speedruns.

___

I think on maps larger than tiny against deity civilizations it may be quicker to play on island maps because the AI is just that bad.

___

On deity difficulty, after you have killed all the opponents units, the enemy literally starts churning out one unit every turn. Occasionally randomly deciding to build the great wall in like 5 turns or something.

___

Or at least, it has the capability to do that, if it feels like it.

___

1v1 diety is actually significantly different from 1v1 settler, because you actually have to deal with units.

Zergreenone

Edit history:

Zergreenone: 2016-02-16 03:52:52 am

2016-02-16 03:52:30 am

1v1 Dual Diety Run as China

Made a few mistakes. Probably a few too many, in fact, but surprisingly (or perhaps unsurprisingly) enough civilization 5 is actually an incredibly fast-paced game when speedrun. Could probably improve in a later attempt at a later date.

LotBlind

2016-02-16 11:49:55 am

Seeing that run, I think it's definitely okay to have a 2-civ Deity run.

ymh

Edit history:

ymh: 2016-02-16 12:58:56 pm

2016-02-16 12:58:34 pm

I gotta say (as somebody who loves this game casually), the speedruns look way more interesting than I ever imagined. Good luck on future runs !

Zergreenone

Edit history:

Zergreenone: 2016-03-04 03:16:52 pm

Zergreenone: 2016-03-04 03:05:10 pm

Zergreenone: 2016-03-04 02:09:14 pm

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Zergreenone: 2016-02-19 05:38:51 pm

2016-02-19 05:27:25 pm

I assumed that any glitch that I could find simply by googling civilization 5 glitches would be fixed. Apparantly, however, the "Unlimited Citizens with 1 citizen's worth of food and happiness consumption" glitch still works.

___

Or never mind, maybe only the "additional citizen which doesn't require food and happiness" glitch

___

Just found out that impossible creatures is on steam omg.

___

Possible glitch found. While the Annex, Raze, or Puppet screen is up, trade the city with another player. This seems to make it so that when you capture further cities they are automatically annexed and contribute no unhappiness. Needs testing. Maybe it is if you have the annex raze puppet screen up and the city gets taken from you. I didn't notice it until a while after doing the glitch.

___

Unit on top of enemy city: Trade a city while having open borders and a unit in your city. Can then stack units on top of each other, by ordering the unit to swap positions with another unit, while the other unit cannot swap back.

___

I really sort of wish that cheats other than reveal map worked in civ 5, or at least that it was slightly faster paced, or that the game saved and loaded faster, just for testing and stuff.

___

So if you press the diplomacy screen an instant before pressing a number key to move a unit to capture a city, and trade the city without seeing the popup for annexation/puppeteering/razing for an instant, the popup will sort of be in limbo, and you will no longer gain unhappiness from capturing cities. Unfortunately, this effect does not persist through save/load

I assumed that any glitch that I could find simply by googling civilization 5 glitches would be fixed. Apparantly, however, the "Unlimited Citizens with 1 citizen's worth of food and happiness consumption" glitch still works.

___

Or never mind, maybe only the "additional citizen which doesn't require food and happiness" glitch

___

Just found out that impossible creatures is on steam omg.

___

Possible glitch found. While the Annex, Raze, or Puppet screen is up, trade the city with another player. This seems to make it so that when you capture further cities they are automatically annexed and contribute no unhappiness. Needs testing. Maybe it is if you have the annex raze puppet screen up and the city gets taken from you. I didn't notice it until a while after doing the glitch.

___

Unit on top of enemy city: Trade a city while having open borders and a unit in your city. Can then stack units on top of each other, by ordering the unit to swap positions with another unit, while the other unit cannot swap back.

___

I really sort of wish that cheats other than reveal map worked in civ 5, or at least that it was slightly faster paced, or that the game saved and loaded faster, just for testing and stuff.

___

So if you press the diplomacy screen an instant before pressing a number key to move a unit to capture a city, and trade the city without seeing the popup for annexation/puppeteering/razing for an instant, the popup will sort of be in limbo, and you will no longer gain unhappiness from capturing cities. Unfortunately, this effect does not persist through save/load