Can Speed Runs Be Done On Wii Virtual Console?

Edit history:

Psychochild: 2006-12-05 04:05:48 pm

2006-12-05 03:28:25 pm

And knowing this makes it THAT MUCH HARDER to resist charging an extra 2,000, 3,000 or 5,000 points to my account. Bah! I'm still waiting for a decent NES game to drop the rest of my 500 points on seeing as I had to get the NES Zelda...

/waiting for Kirby's Adventure.

Psonar

2006-12-05 03:36:41 pm

Long live SF64!

I've also sent off a customer service email through Nintendo's online form. Here's my message:

I am interested in knowing what the display properties of wii virtual console games are. I've seen some things on the Nsider forums, but I wanted an official word on what the resolution and the framerate will be for a virtual console game.

Are all virtual console games going to have the same framerate and resolution or will higher-end n64 games be naturally better than say an NES game? What are the specific display properties for Mario 64 on vitual console?

Hopefully I'll get a good detailed response... there's no reason they would want to keep that information secret or anything... I'll post if I see a response in the forum or my e-mail

If Mario 64 has twice the framerate and 4 times the resolution does that mean the overall video output on a virtual console game would be 8 times the bitrate of the original? That'd be sweet if we all need new computers to be able to play nate's new uber-Insane quality Mario 64 videos... better yet, Insane Quality NES videos...

I've also sent off a customer service email through Nintendo's online form.  Here's my message:

[i]I am interested in knowing what the display properties of wii virtual console games are.  I've seen some things on the Nsider forums, but I wanted an official word on what the resolution and the framerate will be for a virtual console game.

Are all virtual console games going to have the same framerate and resolution or will higher-end n64 games be naturally better than say an NES game?  What are the specific display properties for Mario 64 on vitual console?[/i]

Hopefully I'll get a good detailed response... there's no reason they would want to keep that information secret or anything... I'll post if I see a response in the forum or my e-mail

If Mario 64 has twice the framerate and 4 times the resolution does that mean the overall video output on a virtual console game would be 8 times the bitrate of the original?  That'd be sweet if we all need new computers to be able to play nate's new uber-Insane quality Mario 64 videos... better yet, Insane Quality NES videos...

nate

Edit history:

nate: 2006-12-05 04:16:34 pm

2006-12-05 04:16:13 pm

it would be the same as any d1 f1 game, yes.

the bitrates however are always the same on the qualities.

Yoshi348

2006-12-05 04:29:29 pm

dinosaur from the past

Hehehehe, nate's in heaven.

nate

2006-12-05 08:38:06 pm

i'll believe it when i see it.

UchihaSasuke

2006-12-05 08:49:27 pm

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

SM64 on composite through Wii looks better than the N64 version through S-Video.

that was shocking.

also, the glitches are all there. i completed my first 16 star file yesterday and it was on the Wii. the game runs a bit faster in some cutscenes that lagged in N64 (the cutscene with Peach after you beat the game is a good example) and the transparent cap/teleportation effects look different. imo that's an emulation issue more than a direct change to the game (like how the escape sequence in OoT lagged more in GC in some parts and in N64 in the cutscenes)

i also got F-Zero for SNES and played it a bit. the game is identical to the original version. no differences so far in emulation. i could get near my MC1 best time quickly (only 0.25 secs off)
there's the interrupt save function for the more simple games but you can't copy the interrupted save to retry segments. i wanted to make an interrupt save before Fire Field to retry the track without restarting the GP since that track can be played in GP mode only to set a record but when you copy the savefile, the interrupt data doesn't get copied.

SM64 on composite through Wii looks better than the N64 version through S-Video.

that was shocking.

also, the glitches are all there. i completed my first 16 star file yesterday and it was on the Wii. the game runs a bit faster in some cutscenes that lagged in N64 (the cutscene with Peach after you beat the game is a good example) and the transparent cap/teleportation effects look different. imo that's an emulation issue more than a direct change to the game (like how the escape sequence in OoT lagged more in GC in some parts and in N64 in the cutscenes)

i also got F-Zero for SNES and played it a bit. the game is identical to the original version. no differences so far in emulation. i could get near my MC1 best time quickly (only 0.25 secs off)
there's the interrupt save function for the more simple games but [i][u]you can't copy the interrupted save to retry segments[/u][/i]. i wanted to make an interrupt save before Fire Field to retry the track without restarting the GP since that track can be played in GP mode only to set a record but when you copy the savefile, the interrupt data doesn't get copied.

getter77

2006-12-05 09:12:41 pm

100% runs=great to watch

Couldn't ya just do a hard/soft reset/power off and retry the spot from that initial save pount without trying to copy anything?

UchihaSasuke

2006-12-05 10:45:37 pm

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

save points are deleted when you reload them. they are made only when you exit the game using the home menu.

getter77

2006-12-06 01:49:40 am

100% runs=great to watch

Hmmm...1 shot save state basically. Gutsy.

Psonar

2006-12-06 06:25:09 am

Long live SF64!

The Virtual Console savestate thing reminds me of the soft saves in Breath of Fire V ... it had an interesting system where you couldn't truly save your progress very often throughout the game, but you could create a soft save which basically would allow you to pick the game back up at that point but the soft save would be immediately deleted upon continuing gameplay, so it was more like a long term "long term Pause" than a save file.

Interesting runs could be created with this feature outside of SDA's purview, but since this is in Newer Consoles, that kind of discussion should be reserved for General or the Speedrun Adventures thread...

I went looking around the web for definitive info on the virtual console's graphics and while everyone is discussion left and right on forums and digg and everywhere about resolution, no one seems to be talking about framerate. The only interesting things that are being said about framerate is that because the higher end consoles like PS3 and XBox 360 have such high resolution output to be compatible with the biggest high def. TVs, the framerate on those games drops and that's why we see 20-30 fps for nextgen games -- because they are stretching resolution to the max for the high def. compatibility without keeping framerate up as well.

Anyways... one dude mentioned something about 30 fps in a speal about NTSC standards, but I can't find hard facts on the video output for Mario 64 on VC... oh well... we'll know soon enough I'm sure - half of what I find in a google search are articles talking about the wii's upcoming release... yeah I'll keep looking for that info though.

The Virtual Console savestate thing reminds me of the soft saves in Breath of Fire V ... it had an interesting system where you couldn't truly save your progress very often throughout the game, but you could create a soft save which basically would allow you to pick the game back up at that point but the soft save would be immediately deleted upon continuing gameplay, so it was more like a long term "long term Pause" than a save file.

Interesting runs could be created with this feature outside of SDA's purview, but since this is in Newer Consoles, that kind of discussion should be reserved for General or the Speedrun Adventures thread...

I went looking around the web for definitive info on the virtual console's graphics and while everyone is discussion left and right on forums and digg and everywhere about resolution, no one seems to be talking about framerate.  The only interesting things that are being said about framerate is that because the higher end consoles like PS3 and XBox 360 have such high resolution output to be compatible with the biggest high def. TVs, the framerate on those games drops and that's why we see 20-30 fps for nextgen games -- because they are stretching resolution to the max for the high def. compatibility without keeping framerate up as well.

Anyways... one dude mentioned something about 30 fps in a speal about NTSC standards, but I can't find hard facts on the video output for Mario 64 on VC... oh well... we'll know soon enough I'm sure - half of what I find in a google search are articles talking about the wii's upcoming release... yeah I'll keep looking for that info though.

Kazooie

2006-12-06 08:41:59 am

Zelda Rulez!

Does those virtual console games have pal version and ntsc versions. so I mean is that pal version any slower than ntsc version Huh?

I hope not Roll Eyes

TSA

2006-12-06 09:04:42 am

Retired

How do I save/quit in the Wii NES Zelda? No, not hitting the home button and resetting...

Ifrit

Edit history:

Ifrit: 2006-12-06 09:33:36 am

2006-12-06 09:29:26 am

dont you just hit minus? brings up the "up+a" menu if i recall correctly. i think it mentions that in the operations gude too.

Saestrol

2006-12-06 01:07:48 pm

Speed Running Joy-bringer

Just took a look at that M64 video and I can CLEARLY see the improvements. Solid frame rate and someone clearner graphics...

The levels even load faster for freak's sakes!

TSA

Edit history:

TSA: 2006-12-07 01:28:03 am

2006-12-07 01:27:32 am

Retired

I'll try.

UchihaSasuke

2006-12-07 01:52:50 am

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

but Mario 64 is still 30 fps. i was hoping for 60 fps.

at least it looks way cleaner now.

nate

2006-12-07 02:31:37 am

lol. if it were d1 f1 i would shoot myself.

tenfoLd

2006-12-07 03:02:18 am

IT'S NOT WORTH IT NATE!!!

Psychochild

2006-12-11 08:22:53 pm

Seeing as how Gunstar Heroes was released today, I dropped 20 bucks in VC points. Picked up Mario 64 and Super Star Soldier as well.

Mario 64 IS graphically superior on the Wii, no denying it. textures look sharper, less jaggies than I remember (Will compare later) it looks great. Even Lakitu surprised me since... well, the visual boost didn't help him much. He looked out of place, considering.

The game plays at the same frame rate as before, it's hardly better in that regard though it's far more consistent in keeping it up. The Invisible Cap effect DOES have a semi-transparent Mario and it looks far better than the pixels.

For those curious about control schemes...

N64 on Gamecube Controller
GC N64
L/Z=Z Trigger
R= R Trigger
A= A
B= B
C-Stick= C-buttons.

Some Genesis Games also can be played with the Wii Remote. Those have the Big A button act like the Genesis' A, 1 and 2 are the B and C buttons.

Saestrol

2006-12-12 03:01:34 am

Speed Running Joy-bringer

Well I'd it may not be a full F1 framerate, but the graphical readjustments are probably going to make for better looking and smoother gameplay. This would be a good option for speedruns (assuming you get used to the controls)

A seperate category for Virtual Console games... or something like that.

petrie911

2006-12-12 03:35:36 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Come to think of it, what about runs on GCN games on the Wii? Loading times would be reduced (I think), so some runs might be improved. Although the Gamecube generally had low loading times anyway.

Saestrol

2006-12-12 04:01:20 am

Speed Running Joy-bringer

Loading times HAVE to improve. If Mario 64 even loaded faster, then I think all games would benefit from it.

getter77

2006-12-12 04:09:59 am

100% runs=great to watch

I just want saves not to corrupt themselves randomly. I'm looking at you Aidyn Chronicles: The First Mage and Flying Dragon 64!

:beats fist into the air then flees into the night:

Amazing Ampharos

2006-12-12 09:18:40 am

Aidyn Chronicles wasn't really worth playing in the first place. It might make an interesting speedrun I suppose, but I was barely able to stomach beating the game once, and I have an amazing tolerance for bad games.

I think the Wii exactly emulates GC games so loading shouldn't be affected at all. Still, one of the rare GC games with a loading bar would probably work best(THPS4 could do it).

derDivisor47

2006-12-12 12:10:51 pm

Quote:

Does those virtual console games have pal version and ntsc versions. so I mean is that pal version any slower than ntsc version Huh?

I hope not Roll Eyes

All hope is lost. The PAL version of super mario 64 runs at 50 hz and many peple report, that it plays at "PAL-Speed". I can't really tell, because I never really played the original.