Bunnyhops

2006-10-02 12:20:12 pm

this has been bugging me for ages.. i downloaded quake 1 to watch qdq (amazing run) but afterwards i want to see how fast (or slow) i could do it myself.. but i can't even do the proper bunnyhop that is in all of the quake1 runs, all i can manage is a very basic jumpy-jumpy motion.. is there a trick to doing it as fast as in the official runs?

Thread title:

laughing_gas

2006-10-02 01:40:00 pm

Existence as you know it is over

use the strafe buttons to accelerate, and don't use the forward button. Move your mouse in the same direction as the strafe. Time your jumps so that each one comes right after the other.

Lag.Com

2006-10-02 02:35:18 pm

sda loyalist

Try this

laughing_gas

Edit history:

laughing_gas: 2006-10-02 03:46:33 pm

2006-10-02 03:46:16 pm

Existence as you know it is over

The guide's flawed. You don't turn halfway in midair, you keep on strafing until you hit the ground, then change directions.

Lag.Com

2006-10-02 11:07:25 pm

sda loyalist

The guide is correct. Your current method is flawed. Smiley

laughing_gas

2006-10-03 12:08:20 am

Existence as you know it is over

No, I'm sure my method isn't flawed. I bunnyhop in HL all the time using that method, and I go almost twice as fast.

this is the guide that I learned from.

VincentAC

2006-10-03 01:53:38 am

Oh Crumbs! Oh Crikey! Oh carrots!!

What works in one fps won't necessarily work in another Wink

Mandel

2006-10-03 05:32:40 am

Mumma

I admit the guide is at least semi flawed.

It's difficult to explain something like this huh.

Lag.Com

2006-10-03 09:33:37 am

sda loyalist

As Vincent said. While Half-Life uses a Quake engine, it's very heavily modified. Please... we do know what we're talking about. And seeing as this is the Quake section, I gave a Quake answer.

dex

Edit history:

dex: 2006-10-05 01:04:41 am

2006-10-05 01:04:04 am

Invisible avatar

Quote:

No, I'm sure my method isn't flawed. I bunnyhop in HL all the time using that method, and I go almost twice as fast.

Agree with the rest, your method is flawed for Quake (and for Quake only, it's great for HL). I learned bhopping in Quake, and when i jumped to HL and CS i wasn't much faster when bhopping with Quake method than without bunnies.
And i can get 500s (very rarely, but i can) in Quake without any boost. So it's not THAT bad, don't you think?

Lag.Com

Edit history:

Lag.Com: 2006-10-05 11:32:17 am

2006-10-05 11:30:12 am

sda loyalist

500 speed is fine, considering you're meant to move at 320. Watch Kay's 100m demo for an example of what can be done with bunnyhopping.

There's also some demonstration 100m demos around where the player says which buttons are being pressed when. Hang on, I'll just make one... there. Heh, I never got 10.x before.

Note: I bunny differently to the decent people. For one, I hold +forward all the time (you can see the -forward at the end)

dex

2006-10-05 06:35:44 pm

Invisible avatar

Quote:

500 speed is fine, considering you're meant to move at 320. Watch Kay's 100m demo for an example of what can be done with bunnyhopping.

There's also some demonstration 100m demos around where the player says which buttons are being pressed when. Hang on, I'll just make one... there. Heh, I never got 10.x before.

Note: I bunny differently to the decent people. For one, I hold +forward all the time (you can see the -forward at the end)

Well, i know all of that :] Actually, if i manage to +forward tap (the ultimate technique ;)) during landing and DON't screw up the bunny, i can get 540 and above. However, i need way more practice to do it consistantly (right now risking it in a demo would be dumb for me).

Timinator

2007-02-07 12:31:43 am

18 to the diablo2 holy grail

i really need to learn this one day.

one thing i learnt years ago from the masters of the time (and still now) that there are at least 3 different techniques out there, i don't care which is best but i just want to be able to learn to do them consistently and not crash into walls .. or i try the "dont do forward much" thing and after a hop or 2 i'm not moving at al Tongue

golden_boy

Edit history:

golden_boy: 2007-03-14 10:02:56 pm

2007-03-14 07:06:52 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Yesterday I got under 12 seconds on the 100m map for the first time. Yay :-)

I guess that puts me in the top 50 or something, but I didn't record the runs (too many) and I'm still embarassed anyway. I'm not good by any measure.

I analyzed the jumping techniques to bits (and still do that) and came to the following conclusion.

There are three "perma-jumping" styles which let you go faster than normal moving speed (320).

1) The method that was described above: Strafejumping to one side, then jumping to the other. This is what I did for the longest time.

The characteristic is that the jumping points are not on a straight line, but in a zigzag pattern (jump left, jump right) and you change direction when you jump.

I typically got speeds up to ~ 440 (standing start) with this method. I was pressing forward continuously, so it might be possible to get faster by only tapping forward. The problem is that you need lots of space and it's hard to go around corners.

2) Real bunnies variant 1: Side-to-side technique.

This is what we know as typical bunnies. Explanation:

Strafe-jumping to one side, then changing strafe in midair ("returning to the line") and jumping to the other side.

Characteristically, all jumping points lie on a straight line and you change direction in the air, *not* when you jump.

You're following an S-pattern, jumping exactly in the middle of the S. This means that you have already changed direction when you jump (don't forget this.) It feels a bit like "stitching". If you go along the 100 m track, you can often pick one line and hit it from left, right, left, right, etc. You weave in an S pattern around the line.

It is possible to change from style 1 (jumping left/right) to style 2 (real bunnies) in midair; to get to style 2, you must start to turn while in the air so you are facing/strafing inward before you jump. (hard to explain I know) Basically you need to hit the bottom at the right angle (facing inward, not outward.)

The speed seems to be determined by your view angle at the moment you touch ground/jump. It's OK to face along the "line" (general direction) but I can go fastest by looking ever so slightly inward (in the direction I move) when I jump.

If you are turned too far inward when you touch ground, you will actually slow down.

In my experience, you don't need to move the mouse much at all (you are going very fast, so the jumps get "drawn out" and it doesn't feel like you're turning much.) This is why the fastest bunnies in demos look like the player only jumps in a straight line (he's actually turning, but because he's going so fast it looks like a straight line.)

It has been said the the first jump is all-important. This is true; if you don't get way over 400 with the first jump (acceleration jump), you won't go very fast (over 100m that is.)

This is why you have to master acceleration jumping to get good at bunnies. Acceleration jumping means getting over 400 speed *from a standing start*.

I'm still holding forward all the time, but the word is that you'll go much faster (over 500) if you only tap forward each time you jump. I can't do that yet.

3) Real bunnies variant 2: Asymmetrical style (Kay style)

Again you are stitching the line (jumping points are on a straight line) but this time, you're not crossing it.

Explanation: Strafejumping to one side, changing strafe and turning while in midair, and "returning to the line". But instead of crossing the line (like in side-to-side style) you turn again while jumping, and do the next strafejump _to the same side_ as the first one.

It looks a bit funny :-)

You're not moving in a wide S pattern, but in a "half S" or "perverted S" one, where both bellies of the S are made to the same side.

In side-to-side style, you follow a sine wave pattern. In asymmetrical style, it's like one half of the wave is mirrored and all action is on one side (technically, it's still an S pattern of course, but a deformed one.)

With this technique, you change strafe double so often as with side-to-side style because where they simply cross the line, you're going back in the old direction.

That may be the reason why you can go even faster with this.

Many runners seem to do a mixture of the two styles, even alternate between them at times.

NOW: Another important factor!

"Always run" versus "+speed"

Both commands change walking speed to 320 (running). The menu option "Always run" means that cl_forwardspeed is set to 320 (> 200 really.) The command +speed only works when cl_forwardspeed is left at the default (200) so the two are mutually exclusive.

Both do the same thing - but not entirely. Your strafe jumping is totally altered depending if you set +speed or Always Run. Try it. I have a technical explanation but it'd go too far. AFAIK there are runners who use either one (none of them is "best".)

Here is my personal experience from yesterday:

After switching off "+speed" and using Always Run instead, I could suddenly do side-to-side bunnies. Anyway after some testing I found:

- Style 1 (jump left, jump right): Easier with "+speed"

- Style 2 (symmetrical bunnies): Easier with Always Run

- Style 3 (asymmetrical bunnies): Easier with "+speed"

- Acceleration jumping: Easier with "+speed"

This looks like the more turning action is involved (the wider/more frequent/"rounder" the turns are), the better +speed is. It might be just me though.

Edit 1: This applies to Netquake of course (normal quake), not to Quakeworld.

Edit 2: I can now bunny without holding +forward. Average speed has gone from 435 to over 450. I'm pretty certain now that the "speed barrier" is really holding down the forward button.

Edit 3: AFAIK jumping is FPS-dependent, so as I'm doing this with ~30 FPS, new hardware might bring a boost also.

Yesterday I got under 12 seconds on the 100m map for the first time. Yay :-)

I guess that puts me in the top 50 or something, but I didn't record the runs (too many) and I'm still embarassed anyway. I'm not good by any measure.

I analyzed the jumping techniques to bits (and still do that) and came to the following conclusion.

There are three "perma-jumping" styles which let you go faster than normal moving speed (320).

1) The method that was described above: Strafejumping to one side, then jumping to the other. This is what I did for the longest time.

The characteristic is that the jumping points are not on a straight line, but in a zigzag pattern (jump left, jump right) and you change direction when you jump.

I typically got speeds up to ~ 440 (standing start) with this method. I was pressing forward continuously, so it might be possible to get faster by only tapping forward. The problem is that you need lots of space and it's hard to go around corners.

2) Real bunnies variant 1: Side-to-side technique.

This is what we know as typical bunnies. Explanation:

Strafe-jumping to one side, then changing strafe in midair ("returning to the line") and jumping to the other side.

Characteristically, all jumping points lie on a straight line and you change direction in the air, *not* when you jump.

You're following an S-pattern, jumping exactly in the middle of the S. This means that you have already changed direction when you jump (don't forget this.)  It feels a bit like "stitching". If you go along the 100 m track, you can often pick one line and hit it from left, right, left, right, etc. You weave in an S pattern around the line.

It is possible to change from style 1 (jumping left/right) to style 2 (real bunnies) in midair; to get to style 2, you must start to turn while in the air so you are facing/strafing inward before you jump. (hard to explain I know) Basically you need to hit the bottom at the right angle (facing inward, not outward.)

The speed seems to be determined by your view angle at the moment you touch ground/jump. It's OK to face along the "line" (general direction) but I can go fastest by looking ever so slightly inward (in the direction I move) when I jump.

If you are  turned too far inward when you touch ground, you will actually slow down.

In my experience, you don't need to move the mouse much at all (you are going very fast, so the jumps get "drawn out" and it doesn't feel like you're turning much.) This is why the fastest bunnies in demos look like the player only jumps in a straight line (he's actually turning, but because he's going so fast  it looks like a straight line.)

It has been said the the first jump is all-important. This is true; if you don't get way over 400 with the first  jump (acceleration jump), you won't go very fast (over 100m that is.)

This is why you have to master acceleration jumping to get good at bunnies. Acceleration jumping means getting over 400 speed *from a standing start*.

I'm still holding forward all the time, but the word is that you'll go much faster (over 500) if you only tap forward each time you jump. I can't do that yet.

3) Real bunnies variant 2: Asymmetrical style (Kay style)

Again you are stitching the line (jumping points are on a straight line) but this time, you're not crossing it.

Explanation: Strafejumping to one side, changing strafe and turning while in midair, and "returning to the line". But instead of crossing the line (like in side-to-side style) you turn again while jumping, and do the next strafejump _to the same side_ as the first one.

It looks a bit funny :-)

You're not moving in a wide S pattern, but in a "half S" or "perverted S" one, where both bellies of the  S are made to the same side.

In side-to-side style, you follow a sine wave pattern. In asymmetrical style, it's like one half of the wave is mirrored and all action is on one side (technically, it's still an S pattern of course, but a deformed one.)

With this technique, you change strafe double so often as with side-to-side style because where they simply cross the line, you're going back in the old direction.

That may be the reason why you can go even faster with this.

Many runners seem to do a mixture of the two styles, even alternate between them at times.

NOW: Another important factor!

"Always run" versus "+speed"

Both commands change walking speed to 320 (running). The menu option "Always run" means that cl_forwardspeed is set to 320 (> 200 really.) The command +speed only works when cl_forwardspeed is left at the default (200) so the two are mutually exclusive.

Both do the same thing - but not entirely. Your strafe jumping is totally altered depending if you set +speed or Always Run. Try it. I have a technical explanation but it'd go too far. AFAIK there are runners who use either one (none of them is "best".)

Here is my personal experience from yesterday:

After switching off "+speed" and using Always Run instead, I could suddenly do side-to-side bunnies. Anyway after some testing I found:

- Style 1 (jump left, jump right): Easier with "+speed"

- Style 2 (symmetrical bunnies): Easier with Always Run

- Style 3 (asymmetrical bunnies): Easier with "+speed"

- Acceleration jumping: Easier with "+speed"

This looks like the more turning action is involved (the wider/more frequent/"rounder" the turns are), the better +speed is. It might be just me though.

Edit 1: This applies to Netquake of course (normal quake), not to Quakeworld.

Edit 2: I can now bunny without holding +forward. Average  speed has gone from 435 to over 450. I'm pretty certain now that the "speed barrier" is really holding down the forward button.

Edit 3: AFAIK jumping is FPS-dependent, so as I'm doing this with ~30 FPS, new hardware might bring a boost also.

Arturo Garcia

2007-03-20 09:27:24 pm

Nice analisys!

While I'm not the fastest by any means, specially in that crappy 100m map that newbies tend to play SOOO much, I think I've gotten pretty fast in some ID maps (e1m1, e1m2, e2m1, e4m7).. REAL MAPS, where it counts, not some crappy straight line map.

And if I had to give any advise, I would only say this: I don't even know if I use speed or always run. Seriously, I would have to check. Think a bit less about bunnying styles, and practise less in nonsense maps like 100m. Try real maps, where you have to turn around corners, bunny through monsters, ceilings, stairs, slopes, etc. This will lead you to develop greater skill in REAL MAPS. If you wanna be good in 100m.bps, then play a lot of it, but once you get :09 or whatever, don't expect that "newfound skill" to trasnfer a lot in the real maps.

Playing real maps is best. It will also lead you to develop a good starting bunny. In real maps you don't do just one bunny sequence like in 100m, you often have to stop for whatever reason, or walk, and then start a bunny, so it's good to develop a good starting bunny. Many times in a map, you have to do a lot of sequences of 2-3-4-5 bunnies or whatever, and not one long sequence of 10+ bunnies, that's worthless.

Just my two cents.

Nice analisys!

While I'm not the fastest by any means, specially in that crappy 100m map that newbies tend to play SOOO much, I think I've gotten pretty fast in some ID maps (e1m1, e1m2, e2m1, e4m7).. REAL MAPS, where it counts, not some crappy straight line map.

And if I had to give any advise, I would only say this: I don't even know if I use speed or always run. Seriously, I would have to check. Think a bit less about bunnying styles, and practise less in nonsense maps like 100m. Try real maps, where you have to turn around corners, bunny through monsters, ceilings, stairs, slopes, etc. This will lead you to develop greater skill in REAL MAPS. If you wanna be good in 100m.bps, then play a lot of it, but once you get :09 or whatever, don't expect that "newfound skill" to trasnfer a lot in the real maps.

Playing real maps is best. It will also lead you to develop a good starting bunny. In real maps you don't do just one bunny sequence like in 100m, you often have to stop for whatever reason, or walk, and then start a bunny, so it's good to develop a good starting bunny. Many times in a map, you have to do a lot of sequences of 2-3-4-5 bunnies or whatever, and not one long sequence of 10+ bunnies, that's worthless.

Just my two cents.

Mandel

2007-03-21 07:45:34 am

Mumma

I would agree.

golden_boy

2007-03-25 05:41:05 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote:

Try real maps, where you have to turn around corners, bunny through monsters, ceilings, stairs, slopes, etc. This will lead you to develop greater skill in REAL MAPS.

Sure. That's a standard reply to ANY analysis really: "But in real life it's different." While that is true, it doesn't invalidate the analysis.

Quote:

Playing real maps is best. It will also lead you to develop a good starting bunny. In real maps you don't do just one bunny sequence like in 100m, you often have to stop for whatever reason, or walk, and then start a bunny, so it's good to develop a good starting bunny. Many times in a map, you have to do a lot of sequences of 2-3-4-5 bunnies or whatever, and not one long sequence of 10+ bunnies, that's worthless.

I know that.

I wouldn't say that the 100m map is worthless. You are right that it's unrealistic of course, but I found it nice for practicing the bunny technique.

Of course I play "real" maps. Please notice that I didn't say otherwise. But since getting down the right technique on the 100m map, I've gotten much faster in e1m1 and the others. I'm subconsciously finding ways to string two or three jumps together (bunny style) in my favourite maps. I can suddenly make jumps that seemed impossible.

I'm not aiming to become a bunny monster. But better movement skills help me enjoy the game even more. I learned to bunny across stairs, up slopes etc. in e1mX recently. That's just fun; which is all there is to it. I'm just the type who likes to understand the mechanics behind what he's doing (enjoying.)

In this case, I thought others might be interested since there were some questions. I realize not everybody shares my penchant for analyzing. *shrug* Well _I_ don't like endless discussions on what clan is better or which player "r4ped" another or what quake engine is better. There you go. To each his own, YMMV etc. pp.

gb

[quote]

Try real maps, where you have to turn around corners, bunny through monsters, ceilings, stairs, slopes, etc. This will lead you to develop greater skill in REAL MAPS.[/quote]

Sure. That's a standard  reply to ANY analysis really: "But in real life it's different." While that is true, it doesn't invalidate the analysis.

[quote]Playing real maps is best. It will also lead you to develop a good starting bunny. In real maps you don't do just one bunny sequence like in 100m, you often have to stop for whatever reason, or walk, and then start a bunny, so it's good to develop a good starting bunny. Many times in a map, you have to do a lot of sequences of 2-3-4-5 bunnies or whatever, and not one long sequence of 10+ bunnies, that's worthless.[/quote]

I know that.

I wouldn't say that the 100m map is worthless. You are right that  it's unrealistic of course, but I found it nice for practicing the bunny technique.

Of course I play "real" maps. Please notice that I didn't say otherwise. But since getting down the  right technique on the 100m map, I've gotten much faster  in e1m1 and the others. I'm subconsciously finding ways to string two or three jumps together (bunny style) in my favourite maps. I can suddenly make jumps that seemed impossible.

I'm not aiming to become a bunny monster. But better movement skills help me enjoy the game even more. I learned to bunny across stairs, up slopes etc. in e1mX recently. That's just fun; which is all there is to it. I'm just the type who likes to understand the mechanics behind what he's doing (enjoying.)

In this case, I thought others might be interested since there were some questions. I realize not everybody shares my penchant for analyzing. *shrug* Well _I_ don't like endless discussions on what clan is better or which player   "r4ped" another or what quake engine is better. There you go. To each his own, YMMV etc. pp.

gb

Mandel

2007-03-25 06:04:23 pm

Mumma

yeah and all.

learn by doing.

Arturo Garcia

2007-03-27 09:50:31 pm

Mr. Golden Boy,

The first two word of my post were "nice analisys". I sense some strange feeling on that last post of yours, almost as if you took some sort of offense from my post.

Just in case you did not read those first two words in my previous post, here they are again, this time capitalized, and with another word added: VERY NICE ANALISYS! Smiley

That said, I was just stating my opinion, which I believe is very valid, and proof of this exists. For example, Kay got :09 in 100m when people were barely getting 10.5 ... and in this very same forums, he once wrote an extensive post about why he thought e1m2_030 was optimzed, and he could not get lower than :31. Well, I'm a very shitty 100m runner, yet I got :29 in that map without any new tricks, just shaving fractions in any way I could, maybe turning faster, strafing over a stair, who knows... just "fighting against fractions", as they call it.
I have nothing against Kay, but since we're on the subject, he also had e4m7_043, which he said in his txt files it took him 2 weeks to get? Well, my best e4m7 was like :46 until one day.. and I just played a bit and noticed I could go faster.. and I got :42 without having to play for a full week. Once again, being faster in 100m didn't help. Not to take anything from Kay, he's way faster than me, and in a map that would resemble 100m he would own me and most people.. for example, the e4m5_longway run he has, is an AWESOME demo, and I admit I could not get even close to his times when I tried, although I tried very little.. but seriously, my best there must be like :56.

Keep the analisys coming my friend, I'm not bashing you or them, I think you're missing my point. I'm just saying the following, and I'll try to put it in a way nobody misunderstands me (this is hard for me, as my english sucks......):

100m is a fun test, but it tests "speed in a straight line", it does NOT test "overall speed in Quake bunnyhops", because many other factors come into play in what I have called Real Maps. Unless you make a map with HUGE corridors and nothing to get stuck with, then I guess 100m does help in those ocations. But I don't think there's a single ID map that fits that description. And not many custom maps either.

The only reason I type all of this, is because when I talk to some newcomers over IRC (which is hard for reasons I wont mention here), I notice many of them are obsessed with their bunny comparisson times. They wanna get fast in 100m... heh, you can get 1st place on that, and that's still not an ID record Smiley

... that's why I've never spent much time on the bunny comparisson demos. You're right, they're FUN, and people can play them all they want, who am I to say they shouldn't?? I'm just warning the newcomers: don't expect that a lot of 100m practise will make you a faster player in the real maps. Wanna be faster in real maps? Play them! Smiley

And just in case someone wants to make my points in valid: if you're getting 13 or 12 seconds in 100m, OF COURSE it's gonna help to play it, because you just plain simply have no idea how to bunny. My point always has been: once you get, say, 10.95, there is no point in spending endless hours to finally get 9.95 and become first on the list (or whatever that would place you nowdays). If you can get a high 10, your bunnies in a straight line are good enough. Now go practise them in turns, stairs, slopes, between monsters, under ceilings, backwards, with little room for the start bunny, while shooting, in tight corridors, etc, etc, stuff that helps in real demos.

Hope it's clear, and I'm sure your thoughts and analisys are always welcome, by me and everyone else. Smiley

Mr. Golden Boy,

The first two word of my post were "nice analisys". I sense some strange feeling on that last post of yours, almost as if you took some sort of offense from my post.

Just in case you did not read those first two words in my previous post, here they are again, this time capitalized, and with another word added: VERY NICE ANALISYS!  :)

That said, I was just stating my opinion, which I believe is very valid, and proof of this exists. For example, Kay got :09 in 100m when people were barely getting 10.5 ... and in this very same forums, he once wrote an extensive post about why he thought e1m2_030 was optimzed, and he could not get lower than :31. Well, I'm a very shitty 100m runner, yet I got :29 in that map without any new tricks, just shaving fractions in any way I could, maybe turning faster, strafing over a stair, who knows... just "fighting against fractions", as they call it.
I have nothing against Kay, but since we're on the subject, he also had e4m7_043, which he said in his txt files it took him 2 weeks to get? Well, my best e4m7 was like :46 until one day.. and I just played a bit and noticed I could go faster.. and I got :42 without having to play for a full week. Once again, being faster in 100m didn't help. Not to take anything from Kay, he's way faster than me, and in a map that would resemble 100m he would own me and most people.. for example, the e4m5_longway run he has, is an AWESOME demo, and I admit I could not get even close to his times when I tried, although I tried very little.. but seriously, my best there must be like :56.

Keep the analisys coming my friend, I'm not bashing you or them, I think you're missing my point. I'm just saying the following, and I'll try to put it in a way nobody misunderstands me (this is hard for me, as my english sucks......):

100m is a fun test, but it tests "speed in a straight line", it does NOT test "overall speed in Quake bunnyhops", because many other factors come into play in what I have called Real Maps. Unless you make a map with HUGE corridors and nothing to get stuck with, then I guess 100m does help in those ocations. But I don't think there's a single ID map that fits that description. And not many custom maps either.

The only reason I type all of this, is because when I talk to some newcomers over IRC (which is hard for reasons I wont mention here), I notice many of them are obsessed with their bunny comparisson times. They wanna get fast in 100m... heh, you can get 1st place on that, and that's still not an ID record :) ... that's why I've never spent much time on the bunny comparisson demos. You're right, they're FUN, and people can play them all they want, who am I to say they shouldn't?? I'm just warning the newcomers: don't expect that a lot of 100m practise will make you a faster player in the real maps. Wanna be faster in real maps? Play them! :)

And just in case someone wants to make my points in valid: if you're getting 13 or 12 seconds in 100m, OF COURSE it's gonna help to play it, because you just plain simply have no idea how to bunny. My point always has been: once you get, say, 10.95, there is no point in spending endless hours to finally get 9.95 and become first on the list (or whatever that would place you nowdays). If you can get a high 10, your bunnies in a straight line are good enough. Now go practise them in turns, stairs, slopes, between monsters, under ceilings, backwards, with little room for the start bunny, while shooting, in tight corridors, etc, etc, stuff that helps in real demos.

Hope it's clear, and I'm sure your thoughts and analisys are always welcome, by me and everyone else.  :)

laughing_gas

2007-03-27 10:49:21 pm

Existence as you know it is over

He's right, you have to be good at dealing with every aspect of the game, not just movement ... in multi a guy who masters movement will still get owned by someone with better aim and map control.

NahkahiiR

2007-03-28 12:28:39 am

I think my bunnies are somewhat good, but my record in 100m is only 11.80, and I haven't managed to beat it although I have tried many times. I'm not into Runs, I'm into 100%, and what I'm saying is that to make a good demo it doesn't require super bunny power. Actually, I'm not even interested of practising a new faster technique.

Btw, I liked the bunny comparison in e4m5 a lot more.

PS. I wish there were some 100% comparison maps also... e1m1 for example.

lodis_

2007-03-28 12:08:31 pm

first off, I agree with Arturo. Nice analysis, it's good whether you do 100m bunny comparisons or play normal maps. But, as Arturo says it's real maps that matter. I got good not because of playing 100m but because I put the time in to break records, and that's really the only way to get better.
I really don't get people who play e1m1 to get 2 tenths better, unless they really think they can beat it. But, whatever floats your boat. If it makes you happy.

To some extent I wish that we had never added bunny comparisons since people get stuck on the so much - and they've become some sort of ranking for how good you are, and they don't reflect that at all. In that sense adding comparisons for 100% would make sense. However, I think that's a step in the wrong direction. It wouldn't really be a good measure of how good you are at 100%. And like bunny comparisons it would only test a subset of your skill (adding more maps might fix that, but really...).

I wish people would spend more time working on beating records, id or custom, instead of polishing their times. I can't force people unfortunately (yes I wish people would do as I say, who doesn't).
So, I have an idea. In my opinion we should close the bunny comparisons section (but keep the demos, they have a good historical value and people can learn how to bunny from watching all those different styles). We should replace it with different challenges. These challenges would be in the style "Is this jump possible", "Can e1m1 EH be faster if you do this or this route" and people get to try and post their demos/times and this way we would get a progression that would hopefully lead to more records being broken and tweaks found.

now, flame away.

first off, I agree with Arturo. Nice analysis, it's good whether you do 100m bunny comparisons or play normal maps. But, as Arturo says it's real maps that matter. I got good not because of playing 100m but because I put the time in to break records, and that's really the only way to get better.
I really don't get people who play e1m1 to get 2 tenths better, unless they really think they can beat it. But, whatever floats your boat. If it makes you happy.

To some extent I wish that we had never added bunny comparisons since people get stuck on the so much - and they've become some sort of ranking for how good you are, and they don't reflect that at all. In that sense adding comparisons for 100% would make sense. However, I think that's a step in the wrong direction. It wouldn't really be a good measure of how good you are at 100%. And like bunny comparisons it would only test a subset of your skill (adding more maps might fix that, but really...).

I wish people would spend more time working on beating records, id or custom, instead of polishing their times. I can't force people unfortunately (yes I wish people would do as I say, who doesn't).
So, I have an idea. In my opinion we should close the bunny comparisons section (but keep the demos, they have a good historical value and people can learn how to bunny from watching all those different styles). We should replace it with different challenges. These challenges would be in the style "Is this jump possible", "Can e1m1 EH be faster if you do this or this route" and people get to try and post their demos/times and this way we would get a progression that would hopefully lead to more records being broken and tweaks found.

now, flame away.

sshplur

2007-03-28 05:47:17 pm

You'll get better more quickly than you may think by losing records or not winning contests. When the next contest comes around you should get straight into it and give it all you got. Get your hands dirty. After the results you'll learn from most, if not all, contestants. Who cares how low you got on the tables? (That's not a comment on your skills)

Same goes for fighting someone for a record on a new/old map. The more you fight and beat each other's times, the more you'll improve. Who cares if you got owned by 30 seconds when you thought the route was optimised?

Both stretch your abilities to the limits as you go for gold, with the competitiveness and rush ("The cunt took my record! I went to hell and back for that!").

I really can't say it any other way than that (it was probably a bit more dramatic than I wanted, but meh). After a while, it'll get to the point where you can actually judge how well you'll perform on a map for whatever run, and what you can do ("Yeah, I can do that double-GJ, but I'll need to practice that strange curve...").

When I ran e1m2_031 for the Careful section, I didn't think I could get 0:30. Later on (not sure for how long) I played the map again and thought, "Yeah, I could do it. Bring it, biatch!".

But even when you know how to bunny Q2-style and aim at the speed of light it'll take alot longer to master your movements. I can't explain what that means, but I'm sure some people know what I'm talking about. Arturo's sudden iD ownage last year, and his recent e3m1_104 EH, is an example of that.

You'll get better more quickly than you may think by losing records or not winning contests. When the next contest comes around you should get straight into it and give it all you got. Get your hands dirty. After the results you'll learn from most, if not all, contestants. Who cares how low you got on the tables? (That's not a comment on your skills)

Same goes for fighting someone for a record on a new/old map. The more you fight and beat each other's times, the more you'll improve. Who cares if you got owned by 30 seconds when you thought the route was optimised?

Both stretch your abilities to the limits as you go for gold, with the competitiveness and rush ("The cunt took my record! I went to hell and back for that!").

I really can't say it any other way than that (it was probably a bit more dramatic than I wanted, but meh). After a while, it'll get to the point where you can actually judge how well you'll perform on a map for whatever run, and what you can do ("Yeah, I can do that double-GJ, but I'll need to practice that strange curve...").

When I ran e1m2_031 for the Careful section, I didn't think I could get 0:30. Later on (not sure for how long) I played the map again and thought, "Yeah, I could do it. Bring it, biatch!".

But even when you know how to bunny Q2-style and aim at the speed of light it'll take alot longer to master your movements. I can't explain what that means, but I'm sure some people know what I'm talking about. Arturo's sudden iD ownage last year, and his recent e3m1_104 EH, is an example of that.

rutgerr

2008-02-04 03:33:48 pm

¡

imho there are many different ways of learning how to bunny, stages as you will..

with that, I noticed that every map / run requires it's own bunny technique.. I can't get fast on 100m, yet I do get faster on e2m1 ... I see that the bunnies used in e2m1 don't work in 100m.. nor do they on other maps.

for a good run I think you should look at the map and see what's necesary do get to the exit afap. don't start thinking you have the perfect bunny, the map might require you to do it different.

Timinator

2008-02-09 01:13:26 am

18 to the diablo2 holy grail

Quote:

"The cunt took my record! I went to hell and back for that!"

Q4T for everyone who has found one of their cool demos smashed!