Breath of Fire III (PlayStation)

2008-09-29 12:09:23 pm

We all scream for Eyes Cream

Chances are its for later on as Vitamins heal 100 HP, and where HP will need to be healed to keep certain people(Rei, Ryu, and Momo for example) alive, Vitamins would be better.

ShadowLaguna

2008-09-29 12:30:36 pm

THE GAME!!

Quote from mikwuyma:

I haven't played this game in a long time, so bear with me.

Is there a reason why you're collecting so much treasure? I can understand the money for when you shop, but I don't understand why you're collecting vitamins.

Vitamins are useful for healing until I buy some Healing Herbs. And as for the Worm and the Coin, they're used as fishing bait. I go fishing in a couple of segments to get a Silver Knife.

Guardian Garr

2008-09-29 08:59:13 pm

Might be a good idea to describe each video on youtube.

ShadowLaguna

2008-10-01 01:07:42 pm

THE GAME!!

I guess I could, but due to my laziness at the moment, I haven't really felt like it. I probably will though.

DavizZz

2009-04-07 06:30:25 am

youtube.com/DavizZz2106

is there anybody doing a run now?
btw is it possible that the download link: http://dk.speedrunwiki.com/BOF3/ doesn't work anymore?

Axel Ryman

2009-04-07 07:43:14 am

We all scream for Eyes Cream

http://dk.speedrunwiki.com/BOF3/DavidK5%20-%20BOF3%20Speed%20Run%20-%20841.wmv

That's the direct link to the run on that site. Should download fine.

DavizZz

2009-04-07 08:28:32 am

youtube.com/DavizZz2106

ah it works. i tried another explorer. opera seems to be buggy sometimes.

DoubleThink

2009-04-07 08:45:21 am

There's a word for that

Quote from DAVIS:

is there anybody doing a run now?
btw is it possible that the download link: http://dk.speedrunwiki.com/BOF3/ doesn't work anymore?

Works for me.
While I'm at it, I'd better back this up:

Quote from DoubleThink:

The only really big time saver (like ~2 minutes or something) that I could think of is not heading all the way back to get Shadowwalk. Yeah it's very powerful, but Double Blow does almost exactly the same amount of damage, is cheaper, has a faster animation, and takes like 10 seconds to learn. For Myria you could even learn Triple Blow, but the only practical way would be to learn it from the Dragon Lord, which would probably take a lot of resets x_x Meryleep would still be needed for the speed boost though.
I know David's run clocks in at 8:41 according to the game, but the actual video goes for closer to 10 hours, so I dunno what to expect in terms of time.

Did a little test since then and Double Blow isn't quite as strong as I'd thought, although Triple Blow is still stronger than Shadowwalk provided that Ryu's Power is high enough (which it basically will be in Kaiser Form; Kaiser + Attack Formation + Might + Dragon Blade = Mucho High Power). Despite all that, in David's run Ryu seems to have about 900 Power in the final battle even without Might, which seems oddly high, unless his own way of calculating is wrong >_>
In this case, since Ryu won't really need Double Blow anymore (Only the Kaiser can use his skills, and what's he gonna fight with it out of form? The Elder?), I figure Momo could learn it during the Claw/Dodai battle, since Claw uses it and it would probably shorten the fight a bit (and maybe some others as well). If she can learn it earlier, then great, it'll be useful in the Mutant fight as well, but I don't know how far Nut Troops are spread, and camping to use a Skill Ink will just waste time. Her part of the Dodai fight currently takes nearly 4 minutes, so I doubt that it's one of those "not worth the time" things Tongue

A Vodka Shot/Ginseng wouldn't go astray either, if there's even one available before then...

[quote="DAVIS"]
is there anybody doing a run now?
btw is it possible that the download link: http://dk.speedrunwiki.com/BOF3/ doesn't work anymore?
[/quote]
Works for me.
While I'm at it, I'd better back this up:
[quote="DoubleThink"]
The only really big time saver (like ~2 minutes or something) that I could think of is not heading all the way back to get Shadowwalk. Yeah it's very powerful, but Double Blow does almost exactly the same amount of damage, is cheaper, has a faster animation, and takes like 10 seconds to learn. For Myria you could even learn Triple Blow, but the only practical way would be to learn it from the Dragon Lord, which would probably take a lot of resets x_x Meryleep would still be needed for the speed boost though.
I know David's run clocks in at 8:41 according to the game, but the actual video goes for closer to 10 hours, so I dunno what to expect in terms of time.
[/quote]
Did a little test since then and Double Blow isn't quite as strong as I'd thought, although Triple Blow is still stronger than Shadowwalk provided that Ryu's Power is high enough (which it basically will be in Kaiser Form; Kaiser + Attack Formation + Might + Dragon Blade = Mucho High Power). Despite all that, in David's run Ryu seems to have about 900 Power in the final battle even without Might, which seems oddly high, unless his own way of calculating is wrong >_>
In this case, since Ryu won't really need Double Blow anymore (Only the Kaiser can use his skills, and what's he gonna fight with it out of form? The Elder?), I figure Momo could learn it during the Claw/Dodai battle, since Claw uses it and it would probably shorten the fight a bit (and maybe some others as well). If she can learn it earlier, then great, it'll be useful in the Mutant fight as well, but I don't know how far Nut Troops are spread, and camping to use a Skill Ink will just waste time. Her part of the Dodai fight currently takes nearly 4 minutes, so I doubt that it's one of those "not worth the time" things :P A Vodka Shot/Ginseng wouldn't go astray either, if there's even one available before then...

DoubleThink

2009-12-09 03:38:49 am

There's a word for that

Bumping this half out of boredom, but this incredibly useful guide was posted on GameFAQs recently. Of particular interest is this part:

Quote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Escape Glitch/Trick [ESCP]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Basically, you can trick the enemy into using a section longer than it normally
would if you attempt to escape and fail at it, so if an enemy were to have a
second turn condition and you failed to escape, it will NOT activate the new
condition that turn, and will use the last AI section another time. So, if you
were to do this against, say, Stallion, on the first turn, he will never get to
activate his second turn AI section, and will be stuck only being able to use
the skill Barrier (since that is what he is able to use) until a new section is
activated, which means you can make him waste turns using only Barrier all the
way until he reaches half life, making the battle much easier.

There are a couple of cases where you can do this, but it will NOT work for the
sections that activate the turn after reaching X amount of life, it will just
postpone it until it gets a chance to become active, so that prevents a lot of
good use (unless, of course, there is a way to bypass it, I have only played
with this trick a little bit :D). For now it is more of a fun thing to toy
with, but if the above can be overcome, then it can become a very cheap trick,
especially since bosses pretty much make it the easiest trick to exploit, due
to the fact that the game still allows you to try and run even though you will
never succeed.

Even just for Stallion, this would potentially mean Ryu, Momo (w/Double Blow) and Garr could all attack once. It also revealed something I bet few people know about Gazer:

Quote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~
AI section 4
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Condition: When blinded
Change Type: Stats 2
Stats Changed: Experience
Modifier: 20
Attack Type: Attack only
Special Message: N/A
Skills: Eye Beam (8/8)

When blinded, will double it's Experience from 1500 to 3000, and only use the
regular attack.

Blind has a 1/4 chance to work on Gazer, and conveniently enough, can also be learned when Momo fights Claw! Ryu can also use it as a Flame Whelp, but that obviously won't be as powerful as a Flame+Thorn dragon and will end up making the battle a couple of turns longer.

I don't know how much interest there is in this game currently but hopefully this will generate some more Cheesy

Bumping this half out of boredom, but this [url=http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/196817/57525]incredibly useful guide[/url] was posted on GameFAQs recently. Of particular interest is this part:

[quote]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Escape Glitch/Trick [ESCP]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Basically, you can trick the enemy into using a section longer than it normally
would if you attempt to escape and fail at it, so if an enemy were to have a
second turn condition and you failed to escape, it will NOT activate the new
condition that turn, and will use the last AI section another time. So, if you
were to do this against, say, Stallion, on the first turn, he will never get to
activate his second turn AI section, and will be stuck only being able to use
the skill Barrier (since that is what he is able to use) until a new section is
activated, which means you can make him waste turns using only Barrier all the
way until he reaches half life, making the battle much easier.

There are a couple of cases where you can do this, but it will NOT work for the
sections that activate the turn after reaching X amount of life, it will just
postpone it until it gets a chance to become active, so that prevents a lot of
good use (unless, of course, there is a way to bypass it, I have only played
with this trick a little bit :D). For now it is more of a fun thing to toy
with, but if the above can be overcome, then it can become a very cheap trick,
especially since bosses pretty much make it the easiest trick to exploit, due
to the fact that the game still allows you to try and run even though you will
never succeed.
[/quote]

Even just for Stallion, this would potentially mean Ryu, Momo (w/Double Blow) and Garr could all attack once. It also revealed something I bet few people know about Gazer:

[quote]~~~~~~~~~~~~
AI section 4
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Condition: When blinded
Change Type: Stats 2
Stats Changed: Experience
Modifier: 20
Attack Type: Attack only
Special Message: N/A
Skills: Eye Beam (8/8)

When blinded, [b]will double it's Experience from 1500 to 3000[/b], and only use the
regular attack.
[/quote]

Blind has a 1/4 chance to work on Gazer, and conveniently enough, can also be learned when Momo fights Claw! Ryu can also use it as a Flame Whelp, but that obviously won't be as powerful as a Flame+Thorn dragon and will end up making the battle a couple of turns longer.

I don't know how much interest there is in this game currently but hopefully this will generate some more :D

Wuv

Edit history:

Wuv: 2011-03-29 02:36:23 am

2011-03-29 02:23:33 am

Hmm that AI bug is pretty neat, if I decide to learn snap from pooch i could get him stuck in an infinite loop of only doing snap every turn. It'll also make Rocky jump every turn (for the entire match too since he has no AI triggered by HP value) which could be a good thing with luck. A few ghosts in the mansion can be rendered harmless with this trick but I'll have to see if its worth it just to power through with silver knife. Also it seems that bombers drop ivory dice rarely... hmmm.

Edit: Sweet. the dolphin can't use tsunami with this trick. The more I read the more I like.

DoubleThink

2011-03-29 05:53:52 am

There's a word for that

There's also a TAS in progress. Obviously the biggest difference will be that criticals/endless super combos can't be manipulated, but like usual it should still be helpful for optimisation.

That Double Blow + Ice Chrysm + Vodka Shot idea ended up working out very nicely, although getting those first few turns to work out properly in a real run could prove very difficult. There may be some good spots to use the other Vodka Shots lying around as well; Mikba and the Dragon Zombie are probably good choices. Another thing I didn't mention here is that Stallion has a 1/64 chance to drop a Holy Mantle, which decreases the encounter rate. Getting it could prove very tedious, although the escape bug should help make the fight a good deal easier.

I'm still confident about the other idea I posted above regarding Triple Blow. The only two fights where Shadowwalk is important are the Dragon Lord and Myria, and Triple Blow IS stronger on them (albeit marginally), but importantly doesn't require the 2-minute trip to go and get. In the current run, David also gets a Heat Shotel in Kombinat, but with a little more cash (achieved easily by selling something) you could get a PiercingEdge instead. Not only is it slightly stronger, it's also non-elemental, so it can be traded over to Rei for the Elder fight (who would take 25% less from the Heat Shotel). It gives him 59 attack over his old Moon Sword, and Weretiger triples his attack, so in Attack formation that's a boost of 265 right off the bat.

Some more possible minor improvements to fights around the place:
-Using the Myrmidon (Force + Trance) form's Frost Strike to take down Manmo is probably quicker than the strategy in David's current speedrun.
-One round could be saved in the Shroom fight if you're willing to reset until you can get Gambit to hit just once.
-The Gisshan++ fight might be the one with the most room for improvement, provided you can find a strategy that's still manageable. If you could get Momo to learn Blitz, then with the Ice Chrysm and the Titan Belt she could do around 47 damage per hit on the fire snakes - and Blitz hits three times, although she's liable to miss at least once. That's a good amount more than the ~50 she does currently with Quake, although the obvious downside is the health loss upon using it. Putting her in Attack formation would obviously improve this further but she'd probably just get shredded.

[url=http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8047]There's also a TAS in progress.[/url] Obviously the biggest difference will be that criticals/endless super combos can't be manipulated, but like usual it should still be helpful for optimisation.

That Double Blow + Ice Chrysm + Vodka Shot idea ended up working out very nicely, although getting those first few turns to work out properly in a real run could prove very difficult. There may be some good spots to use the other Vodka Shots lying around as well; Mikba and the Dragon Zombie are probably good choices. Another thing I didn't mention here is that Stallion has a 1/64 chance to drop a Holy Mantle, which decreases the encounter rate. Getting it could prove very tedious, although the escape bug should help make the fight a good deal easier.

I'm still confident about the other idea I posted above regarding Triple Blow. The only two fights where Shadowwalk is important are the Dragon Lord and Myria, and Triple Blow IS stronger on them (albeit marginally), but importantly doesn't require the 2-minute trip to go and get. In the current run, David also gets a Heat Shotel in Kombinat, but with a little more cash (achieved easily by selling something) you could get a PiercingEdge instead. Not only is it slightly stronger, it's also non-elemental, so it can be traded over to Rei for the Elder fight (who would take 25% less from the Heat Shotel). It gives him 59 attack over his old Moon Sword, and Weretiger triples his attack, so in Attack formation that's a boost of [b]265[/b] right off the bat.

Some more possible minor improvements to fights around the place:
-Using the Myrmidon (Force + Trance) form's Frost Strike to take down Manmo is probably quicker than the strategy in David's current speedrun. 
-One round could be saved in the Shroom fight if you're willing to reset until you can get Gambit to hit just once.
-The Gisshan++ fight might be the one with the most room for improvement, provided you can find a strategy that's still manageable. If you could get Momo to learn Blitz, then with the Ice Chrysm and the Titan Belt she could do around 47 damage per hit on the fire snakes - and Blitz hits three times, although she's liable to miss at least once. That's a good amount more than the ~50 she does currently with Quake, although the obvious downside is the health loss upon using it. Putting her in Attack formation would obviously improve this further but she'd probably just get shredded.

Wuv

Edit history:

Wuv: 2011-03-29 12:53:39 pm

Wuv: 2011-03-29 12:32:04 pm

2011-03-29 12:31:36 pm

Oh wow, not only is it a bof3 tas, but its done by Janus so it'll automatically be good. It'll take a few years of experimenting before we know which strats are optimal (both for tas and console runs) but i'll more than likely test out most of your ideas in my test run just for the sake of not copying/pasting david's stuff and having something new to compare.

Edit: Daaang, he did 2 test TASes and is working on a 3rd. Typical Janus. And just to put this all into perspective, he's only been working on this project for 3 months.

Reeves

2011-04-11 08:25:52 pm

I'd like to stick my head in here, since I've been thinking of running this myself for a while, but on the PSP... Anyway, after reviewing a small portion of janus's first TAS attempt on youtube (though i've not seen all of it, nor have i seen any of his new attempts, because the files he uploads are in a format i have no idea how to play >.<) I've been taking some notes, primarily regarding the contest of champions section... Since (for me) that seems to be a clutch part of the run.

Compared to Davidk5's old run, janus shaves off a good 3 minutes with his TAS run. He makes sure momo learns both blind and double blow from the get go (requiring a lot of luck and patience if performed normally) and then whittles the dodai platform down with claw on with double blow attacks w/ ice chrysm equipped. After enough damage has been done, he kills momo off, switches to Ryu, and uses an icicle to end the fight instantly. Requires a ton of luck, but certainly doable. blind being used for the Gazer fight. David decided to use an ivory dice during the claw fight, which isn't as optimal as if you use one during the gazer battle with Ryu left alive, plus the double exp from blind.

could easily shave a good few minutes off the run if all goes well during that part.

I have to find out what his new strategy for Emitai is though... quite intrigued since the old one was still pretty fast, spamming ice claw on Emitai first, and then the golems.

He also makes note of figuring out that a combination of both walking and running helps with avoiding random encounters. I'll have to ask him about that, and get some proper notes.

He also doesn't need Meryleep, which saves a hell of a lot of time, and doesn't rest or use water during the desert sequence, which i find a shade unfeasable, but all are things to take note of i suppose.

Much theorycrafting is needed still I reckon - great to see a lot of activity on such a great game though.

I'd like to stick my head in here, since I've been thinking of running this myself for a while, but on the PSP... Anyway, after reviewing a small portion of janus's first TAS attempt on youtube (though i've not seen all of it, nor have i seen any of his new attempts, because the files he uploads are in a format i have no idea how to play >.<) I've been taking some notes, primarily regarding the contest of champions section... Since (for me) that seems to be a clutch part of the run.

Compared to Davidk5's old run, janus shaves off a good 3 minutes with his TAS run. He makes sure momo learns both blind and double blow from the get go (requiring a lot of luck and patience if performed normally) and then whittles the dodai platform down with claw on with double blow attacks w/ ice chrysm equipped. After enough damage has been done, he kills momo off, switches to Ryu, and uses an icicle to end the fight instantly. Requires a ton of luck, but certainly doable. blind being used for the Gazer fight. David decided to use an ivory dice during the claw fight, which isn't as optimal as if you use one during the gazer battle with Ryu left alive, plus the double exp from blind.

could easily shave a good few minutes off the run if all goes well during that part.

I have to find out what his new strategy for Emitai is though... quite intrigued since the old one was still pretty fast, spamming ice claw on Emitai first, and then the golems.

He also makes note of figuring out that a combination of both walking and running helps with avoiding random encounters. I'll have to ask him about that, and get some proper notes.

He also doesn't need Meryleep, which saves a hell of a lot of time, and doesn't rest or use water during the desert sequence, which i find a shade unfeasable, but all are things to take note of i suppose.

Much theorycrafting is needed still I reckon - great to see a lot of activity on such a great game though.

DoubleThink

2011-04-11 09:37:59 pm

There's a word for that

Since last time I posted, the learn rates for abilities were discovered - and Triple Blow's is 2%. Ahahahaha yeah, you aren't going to be able to learn that in the D. Lord battle Sad

It's probably still faster to learn it from a DeathBot than to go back and get Shadowwalk though.

nitwit

Edit history:

nitwit: 2011-04-11 09:54:51 pm

2011-04-11 09:53:52 pm

Quote:

and doesn't rest or use water during the desert sequence, which i find a shade unfeasable

I've actually done this (no resting) on a console as part of a no non-mandatory inns challenge; from what I recall, it wasn't too terribly difficult as there are recognizable patterns of clouds in the daytime sky. I did use water occasionally though.

DoubleThink

2011-04-12 01:27:00 am

There's a word for that

It's more that it completely depletes everyone's health and max HP, but if Ryu is still capable of beating Manmo then yeah it could save a bunch of time.

Reeves

2011-04-12 06:56:39 pm

gonna watch janus and david's videos more closely and take some notes over the next few days, see what I find out.

Then i'm definitely gonna boot up the old psp and run this badboy myself and see what sort of time i get.

Axel Ryman

2011-04-14 12:48:56 am

We all scream for Eyes Cream

Unfortunately there's not much you can use from the TAS since most of it is just Super Combo with a ridiculous amount of hits. I need to rewatch his TAS to see if he kept Bunyan after getting Super Combo(I think he did, which is good). Regardless, good luck on the console run.

Wuv

2011-04-14 06:11:04 pm

Blind and double blow in one go will be rough, might even have to use a soul gem. For some reason while reading your post all I could hear in my head was the Contest of Champions theme...

DoubleThink

2011-04-14 09:22:40 pm

There's a word for that

If it turns out to be too tough, you can always use Blind with the Flame Whelp like I mentioned earlier.