Borderlands [2:29:02 by YoukaiDragoon

2013-10-19 07:38:41 am

Speed > Safety

It's really starting to look like every form of loading screen is going to have to be manually timed out and removed... This does mean that transition PW charging would be in, but it's the least harmful of all the other options, so in turn, would be the most accurate of all the options as well? Can we agree on that?

So based on the assumption that the above is true, what's the least damaging "issue" in regards to the options we do have? The paperwork says PW charging is least damaging in terms of fairness, so maybe we go with that (for now) until something more intricate is in place or the tactical PW's that matter the most can be given an average for reduction if the loading screen reaches X.

There would have to be quite a ton of testing to get a proper average in regards to the penalty, however, simply instating a rule that you can't use PW until reaching point Y would probably solve the problem on paper, but real-time, getting everyone aware of this would be quite a tedious chore and probably just lead to a bunch of pointless drama as well.

It's really starting to look like every form of loading screen is going to have to be manually timed out and removed... This does mean that transition PW charging would be in, but it's the least harmful of all the other options, so in turn, would be the most accurate of all the options as well? Can we agree on that?

So based on the assumption that the above is true, what's the least damaging "issue" in regards to the options we do have? The paperwork says PW charging is least damaging in terms of fairness, so maybe we go with that (for now) until something more intricate is in place or the tactical PW's that matter the most can be given an average for reduction if the loading screen reaches X.

There would have to be quite a ton of testing to get a proper average in regards to the penalty, however, simply instating a rule that you can't use PW until reaching point Y would probably solve the problem on paper, but real-time, getting everyone aware of this would be quite a tedious chore and probably just lead to a bunch of pointless drama as well.

jayTOH

2013-10-19 10:16:14 am

RAMENhamehaaa

Whoops, forgot to mention that if we did use strictly in-game time, we'd have to add in the no S+Q "segments," so from the end of the initial loading screen/start of the purple warp until the exit menu is hit! But yeah, I forgot that the other problem of using the in-game timer is that in addition to not including the main menu time, it also doesn't count inventory/char/skill/etc and New-U station menu time. Menu manipulation is part of speedrunning after all!

@PeachWaldo - Yeah, luck manipulation is the other big problem in regards to timing. My typical failed Fyrestone luck manipulation "segment" is 21-22sec long total (load game to load game), and about 10sec without both loads if I recognize the wrong grenade ASAP. I agree in that the difference is too extreme - tacking on an additional 10sec for each failed LM for me and 20sec for you is too crazy! It should be fair enough to cut out loading screens since it still is around +11sec for each failed LM as opposed to +22-30sec.

Cry

Whoops,  forgot to mention that if we did use strictly in-game time, we'd have to add in the no S+Q "segments," so from the end of the initial loading screen/start of the purple warp until the exit menu is hit! But yeah, I forgot that the other problem of using the in-game timer is that in addition to not including the main menu time, it also doesn't count inventory/char/skill/etc and New-U station menu time. Menu manipulation is part of speedrunning after all!

@PeachWaldo -  Yeah, luck manipulation is the other big problem in regards to timing. My typical failed Fyrestone luck manipulation "segment" is 21-22sec long total (load game to load game), and about 10sec without both loads if I recognize the wrong grenade ASAP. I agree in that the difference is too extreme - tacking on an additional 10sec for each failed LM for me and 20sec for you is too crazy! It should be fair enough to cut out loading screens since it still is around +11sec for each failed LM as opposed to +22-30sec.

:'( :'(

Incalex

Edit history:

Incalex: 2013-11-21 12:42:25 pm

2013-11-21 12:38:18 pm

I'm a scrubby noob

(just remembered there's a SDA topic and I'm also a BL1 speedrunner Shocked

AWESOME I should add salt here)

I think almost everything was already said about timing (except if a superhero comes in and find THE PERFECT TIMING), so I'll join the "Remove ALL DEM LOADINGS" timing way, the reasons are below but everything I'll say was already been said so don't take care of this if you're just trying to find something new.

In-game time is obviously too "wrong" because of the (dumb) <30sec not saved quits and I love to put skill points on wrong skills (but hey, at least, my bad luck wouldn't matter anymore, BEST TIMING!).

I like the "with loadings" timing but I would have too much advantage (and would buy a SSD too) over jayTOH. I don't dislike it but I heard it's unfair Wink

So obviously, there's only "no loadings" remaining right now. And as jayTOH already said, PW are almost the same even with our 1-5sec loading time difference. Also, I don't think having PW earlier would change a lot things since most of the time, we do the maximum number of PW and I don't think having PW always refreshed after a loading would increase a lot the numbers of PW (I think a 1min save is really really too much honestly).

For the "let's always PW at same places", well sometimes I like to PW earlier or later depending on situations. PW is not only a speed boost, it's also the best way to save your ass when you have 9HP (a good example would be coming back to the ECHO terminal, with risky strat being PW after turning in the quest, and safe strat being doing it before). It would be hard to force everyone to do the exact same thing.

Anyway, with time, we discovered new tricks and stuff (early skag aggro, phasejump <3, impossible%), so maybe this timing issue will be solved later. But right now, I think the "No loading" timing is the most fair (and the most boring too since I hate taking 2hrs removing every loading on a video editing software).

PS : I'm thinking about harassing some friends to make an automatic no loadings timer for Borderlands. Basically, it would mean a 3rd party software that detects loading and times everything else (main menu should be counted too, it should detect the destroyer death too). Sounds possible to do but also means watching Borderlands RAM (like a cheat engine). Still, it would make the timing way easier to do.

(just remembered there's a SDA topic and I'm also a BL1 speedrunner :o AWESOME I should add salt here)

I think almost everything was already said about timing (except if a superhero comes in and find THE PERFECT TIMING), so I'll join the "Remove ALL DEM LOADINGS" timing way, the reasons are below but everything I'll say was already been said so don't take care of this if you're just trying to find something new.

In-game time is obviously too "wrong" because of the (dumb) <30sec not saved quits and I love to put skill points on wrong skills (but hey, at least, my bad luck wouldn't matter anymore, BEST TIMING!).

I like the "with loadings" timing but I would have too much advantage (and would buy a SSD too) over jayTOH. I don't dislike it but I heard it's unfair ;)

So obviously, there's only "no loadings" remaining right now. And as jayTOH already said, PW are almost the same even with our 1-5sec loading time difference. Also, I don't think having PW earlier would change a lot things since most of the time, we do the maximum number of PW and I don't think having PW always refreshed after a loading would increase a lot the numbers of PW (I think a 1min save is really really too much honestly).

For the "let's always PW at same places", well sometimes I like to PW earlier or later depending on situations. PW is not only a speed boost, it's also the best way to save your ass when you have 9HP (a good example would be coming back to the ECHO terminal, with risky strat being PW after turning in the quest, and safe strat being doing it before). It would be hard to force everyone to do the exact same thing.

Anyway, with time, we discovered new tricks and stuff (early skag aggro, phasejump <3, impossible%), so maybe this timing issue will be solved later. But right now, I think the "No loading" timing is the most fair (and the most boring too since I hate taking 2hrs removing every loading on a video editing software).

PS : I'm thinking about harassing some friends to make an automatic no loadings timer for Borderlands. Basically, it would mean a 3rd party software that detects loading and times everything else (main menu should be counted too, it should detect the destroyer death too). Sounds possible to do but also means watching Borderlands RAM (like a cheat engine). Still, it would make the timing way easier to do.

CBenni

2013-11-21 03:19:43 pm

Incalex, yes that would be possible to make, yet is illegal for SDA purposes. Also, it would require quite a bit of research, since variable locations might differ. I cant put work into that, good luck with finding people tho. Sorry about that.

penta

2014-02-13 12:32:44 pm

Guys, how to proceed when you die during the Destroyer after-kill cutscene and the game doesn't register your IGT for the fight?